1553 - Father/Son: Cage Lawyer and son Ian

Foreign. Doctor James Beckett Sports card Insights. Another father son episode, this time with Cage lawyer and his son Ian, who says he is Cage Lawyer Jr. In the hobby. Good time with Cage and his 13 year old son Ian. Thank sponsors. Top Spagini Upper Deck Heritage Auctions, Hugging the Scott Auctions, Mike Stadium Sports Cards, Burbank sports cards comp. C.com and Beckett Media. Beckett Grading, Beckett Authentication. So here's our freewheeling conversation. Ian, you realize your dad and I are in a competition for who's got the most podcasts. You got me beat because not by much. And I think my lead is evaporated once I started doing daily. Yeah, you're killing me. I love the way you say it's a five minute episode and it winds up being 20. Yeah, that's part of the stick. Yeah, I'm saying it's 15. And because of you, I've allowed myself to creep into the teens. Nice. The 20. And Jeremy Lee actually told me, he said I look for the episodes that are longer because I realized those are better because there was too much meat to cut. Yep. Maybe that's the same thing going with you. If you did a five minute episode now, people would say, what's wrong? I'd have to do three of them. You'd have to do three. But wait a minute, you did a 20 second episode. I did. That didn't count. That shouldn't count. Cage, do you run this by even Ian? Did I run the podcast idea? I told him he's doing it. I'm just saying I think you're doing it. So there's a chain of command here. Yeah, he's the boss. He could have told me. No. Ian, is it strange for you that your dad has a name and I know his real name, so that I know your real name, but he goes by a name that's really working for him. So are you going to be Ian Lawyer? I think I might stick to Cage Lawyer junior Cage Lawyer junior But like the one part that I like about it of his name is we go to shows all the time and people walk up to him and say, hey, Cage. Instead of his real name. And I just find that incredibly funny. This is podcast gold. Cage. Yeah. How about the airport? We were in an airport three in the morning and a guy in full airport attire, suitcase and neck pillow around him, he goes, case, can I get a picture? My dad's. Where's that coming from? Yeah, okay. Cage, is he recognized you by sight or by voice? It's usually by sight. They'll come over and say, is it? Yeah. And then they're like, oh, it's definitely you when I open my mouth. Ian, do you want to be a lawyer when you grow up? Not at all. I want to be an investor or stockbroker, anything in that field. Cage, do you think Ian should be getting some college credit for some of the things he's learning in the last couple years? Pretty funny, right? You talk about the different schools, the school of hard knocks. You get a little street smarts and schooling that way. The hobby is just one of those things where there are lessons you'll take your entire life. A lot of the negotiating I do every day, back and forth. Plaintiffs lawyers trying to settle cases, et cetera. You do it yourself. You do it in cards. You're negotiating a price, you're getting to a number, vice versa. I've taken some of my lawyer negotiating stuff. It's a hobby. At national one year, I did a whole negotiation for a card without saying a word. I had a little post it note and just kind of slid it across the table. He was like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I can't negotiate. Like, just go ahead. That's it. Pick up the note. Yeah, it's fun. As far as college credit, Yeah, I think they should do something like that. I don't know how you do it right. But he is prepared for aspects of his life by this space. So much more than a lot of his friends are. First of all, he's not shy. You go into a card show, you walk in with your cards. And I've seen this. I've seen cousins of his, I've seen friends of his who try to do it all. So they walk up to a show table and they show the card, and the guy says, I don't want that. And they're just struck, but you're like, oh, okay, I don't want to do this anymore. They'll even say to Ian, you sell it. You can't be afraid. You walk up to a table, guy says, no, fine. You walk up to another table, you walk up to a third table. You just realize rejection is just part of life also. And you get a no. You get three nos, you get eight nos until you get one yes. You learn a lot about sales. You learn a lot about life itself. Any of that makes sense to you? All of it. All of it. You've been on shows where people say, no, you're selling stuff for you. Yeah, but have you ever been shy or you grew up? You just Always were. Well, I started this at a young age. I think it's helped me develop an extroverted side. So I don't think I've ever been shot. Jim will get a kick out of it. What he meant by that is he'll bring his own cards to the show, which will be downtowns and modern stuff. And then every once in a while, I'll say to him, hey, why don't you sell this for me? And what kind of card is it? A33 Gowdy Ruth. And he'll come back like, no one wants this, dad. And I'm like, well, they're suspicious. Yeah. What's the first thing they ask you? Where'd you get this? Where'd you get this? Are you selling it for somebody? And how much do you want for it? Are the three main questions. Whenever I walk to a table with anything pre2020. Pre2020. Yeah. That's the cutoff. Not be allowed to sell cards older than you are. 20, 19 and earlier is vintage. Jim. Got something for you. Ian, if I said I thought your dad was a thoughtful extrovert, what would you say to that? I would agree. He's definitely not an introvert, first of all. And he is really nice doing deals. I've seen him when I try to sell stuff for him. He goes to a table and a kid asks him for the card, and he works the deal out with the kid. And he gives a better offer for the kid than he does with the dealer because he knows that kid just wants a car. It's like the dealer's gonna flip it. The kids want to keep it. Both like you, the kids. The future of the space. If you give them a good experience at a show, that's somebody who's maybe going to turn into a dealer or be somebody who's happy in the space, goes home and tells a friend. You just grow it that way. The other thing, Ian, do you have a sense of what being a contrarian means? Because your dad has been accused of that. And it means when some people zig, he zags. Are you like that, too? Not go for what's right now, but find out something that's going to be hot next time. Is that you, too? I am a contrarian. Okay? Probably. I definitely don't do a lot of things that the other people in the space do. I try to stay towards low end cards instead of the big. Not really big, but like a thousand to five thousand range. He's 13 for this guy. Wait a minute. What's Low end for you, it's like big end is low end. A hundred dollars for you. Low end is like 50 to 100 bucks. Okay. It's fair. He didn't start there. You build up a war chest and you move from smaller cards into bigger ones. When I listen to you guys go back and forth a little bit on your episodes, it's a very good dialogue. And Cage gets into that on his solo episodes, too. It's vintage versus modern cards and non sport or certain sports versus TCGs, whether you get unopened or you buy singles. And when you go by this year's grails or prospects, things like that, do you have that tension or do you see things really clearly of what your lane is? And do you guys all agree? You guys agree? I try to stay towards modern cards because I. I'm modern. I'm 13. He definitely likes vintage cards because I thought he was switching. He was a kid when that happened. It was modern when he was there. It's modern for when I was funny. Jim, you're doing a father son episode. And what I'll say about it is I'm lucky to have him because I would have just stayed in my lane, my vintage baseball mantle, 52 and 33 Gowdy, and maybe even some 80s stuff, because that's what I had when I was a kid. I'd have my Tony Gwynn from 83, et cetera. But in the last couple of years, probably maybe four or five years ago, Ian opened my eyes to soccer. He played soccer for his school. He's got some friends who live right behind us, Albanian kids who play soccer and they come and they play on the front lawn. I played soccer as a kid. I was a goalie, but it was never something I thought of as a hobby or cards for soccer. And he would tell me about the players, the teams, you name it. And we started buying soccer cards because it was fun and because he enjoyed it. And maybe luckily we were there ahead of the curve on soccer. And. And it's not just soccer. I would never have thought about F1 cards, but we watched this F1 movie with Brad Pitt. He has me watch, and now I learn about that sport and I know the drivers. And I started buying him cards for that because he enjoyed it. It's a cool thing because having a different pair of eyeballs looking at it from a completely different way has opened my eyes to a different way of doing it and having fun with it. And if I'm being selfish, those areas were not as heavily collected as where I was. So you were able to really be almost a first mover. And the soccer stuff? I was buying soccer way before people were paying what they're paying now for it. And I have this little guy to thank for it. You were buying Wemby when he was six feet tall, right? Yeah, I think Wemby was born six feet tall. I saw an interview. Somebody asked him when he turned 6 foot. He said 10. The WEMBY thing was just a couple months. Wemb. I just thought I am a couple months ago and said, he's gonna have a playoff run. We'll see how it ends. Right now it doesn't look like it's gonna end that great, but we'll see. Okay. Another opportunity for you guys to either push back or affirm. And that is that I've always said, I think this is the greatest hobby in the world. Oh, yeah. And I'm really pretty sure about that. But I'm absolutely sure it's the best father son hobby. What do you guys say? I think that's right. Probably because it gives something to relate to them, father, son. They probably would watch sports. And that really gets them into it. And I think this hobby is the best for father and son. It gives them something else to do besides just be together. It gives them something to go to. It gives them something to watch. Like we're talking about it today. We got auctions ending tonight. What are we bidding on? Does he see any cool Pokemon cards that I should be looking for? Are there any bargains beyond that? Jim, I can tell you, when my dad died, he was 55 years old. I'm not that much younger than that now. And most of my great memories with him are hobby memories. Going to shows, buying cards, opening packs. And part of that is baseball. 80s was mostly baseball for me when I was collecting as a young kid. And I had no reason to know who Carl Furillo was. But that was my dad's favorite player. And he was at Colo's Night on the Brooklyn Dodgers. And there was no Brooklyn Dodgers when I was born. But it was a tie that binds right. And we were able to go to a show. And what was cool about it was he'd buy a box of 93 finest for me. And I'd be looking around at all the tables that had vintage cards to see whether or not I could find a call forillo card for him for $4 to surprise him with his favorite player. Or Don Drysdale. Don Newcombe. I learned about all the Brooklyn Dodgers. I had no Reason to. Those guys played 30 years before I was born. And Ian knows who Mickey Mantle is. Right. He might not want to collect them, but he knows who he is and he knows who the 80s guys are and knows about Ken Griffey Jr. And my hope is that just as I have some memories of my dad and collecting when he has kids, I hope he's able to do the same thing. It's a generational thing. I'm saying even more than that, Ian knows stuff that you don't know. Oh, yeah, 100%. Now, everybody knows that. The father has more experience and knows some things that the son doesn't know because he wasn't alive. But the son can have an advantage over the father in terms of some of the things that he knows. That's really cool, because then the father and son can have a discussion that's more even. It's not the father talking down to the son. They're going to the show together. They're comparing notes. Yep. From each other. That's to me, that's the secret sauce. Listen, it works both ways. Jim Wright. So, yeah, I've learned new sports from him. I've learned new athletes. Pokemon. Forget about it. We're still buying Pokemon stuff. I don't know, because of my age. I was already in college when Pokemon came out. I was in law school when it came to the States. So I was too old for that. So that is not a nostalgia thing for me. I don't know it. Anything I know about Pokemon is from him playing Pokemon Go or teaching me about the cards when we open up packs and why this guy is good and why this one is good for playing and et cetera, et cetera. But it does work the other way. And, yeah, dad does know best sometimes, because we will be driving to a card show where he'll have a bag full of cards and he's looking to sell them. And I will say to him, okay, do you know what you're going to be asking for on the cards? I told you last night, grab your phone, pull up card ladder, and comp your cards. Did you do it? No. All right, we got a half an hour. You got to do it, because one of the things you learn, you go to a table and you don't have your card's price. What happens? They don't want to do a deal with you. Straight to it, and they ask you, what do you want for it? And you just said, I don't know. You want them to know how much you want for it. So that you can actually get a deal done quicker. The lesson learned is you got to do some prep work sometimes. You can't be lazy. You got to do preparation. And that's not just for cards. That's a lesson you learn for everything. Got to study via tests. If you got a presentation at work, you got to put in the work ahead of time and do it. It's the same thing. But, Ian, what you're learning is that a lot of dealers want to do deals with younger collectors, but they want you to be in the deal and participating and knowledgeable. If you just say, I don't know what they're worth and what do you think? Or something like, that's not part of the Cage Lawyer Jr brand. I got a question for you because I see this awesome wall behind you. I see a PMG on there. Have you branched out into anything fun that Ian would find interesting? Is this not branching out here? No. Card wise, this is fun for the podcast cards. I mean, there's a hundred different buy Pokemon. That's branching out a little too far. I'm Sports Card Insights. I've got my hands full with all the sports. I'm not going to run out of things to collect. That is one of the cool things about it. Right. But I'm looking at your wall behind you. I can see over your shoulder, 53 top satchel page. I see a lot of vintage, I see a lot of fun stuff. And that looks like a PMG green Barry Sanders behind you also, which is kind of cool. That's more modern than I expect from you. But do you open stuff now? Do you buy cards from modern releases or do you just kind of stick to a lane? Look in the lower left corner. Rowdy Roddy Piper. Oh, you got a Piper card. Piper's. I have a full spectrum of sports and actually believe wrestling is a sport. But it's certainly athletic, it's entertainment. And it's next to a strip card, which is next to a jambalaya. So, yeah, this is a portion of my card wall that's in my card room, my card house. And it's all alphabetical, so you're looking at the P's. Yeah. Piper and Paige. Now, it makes a lot of sense. One of the things that I love about the space and I know I love doing it with Ian also is researching finding something new. And you could do research with stuff that's not new and just really drill down into the stuff that you know and know it well. Do you ever find yourself saying, you know what I Want to research something new? A card that I didn't know about? Go ahead, shoot. Come on. You know how many books I've written? Softballs, Jim. These are. I'm throwing them up. I've got another wall of books that I wrote that were researched. Because when I started, which is about 50 years ago. You had to do the independent, original research. And now a lot of it's out there, the magazines. I've got complete set of all the books and all the magazines that are all bound. So if I want to research something, it doesn't take me very long. I'm getting older. I've forgotten some things. But there's a lot of things I remember because I love the hobby. I'm a lifer. And a lot of that original research I did. And I'm not stopping. And that's why I mess around with dollar boxes now. Because that's a learning experience for me. On the lower end, the glamour cards, you can find out about those. But there's some obscure cards you'll see. And I think that's fun, too. You know what's funny? You love the dollar box. I love the dollar box. It's got some history to it. It's fun. It's almost like treasure hunting for us old heads. What do you think about the dollar box? You spend any time? I spend a bit of time at a dollar box. Not a lot like you, but. He'll drag me away. Come on. So much other stuff. I found some good cards in dollar boxes before. I found a $40 card. Nice box before. And when he was making a dollar box, he had one row of Pokemon cards. And before he went to a show with it, he made me look through it. And I found more cards that were obviously more than a dollar. All right. Thank you for that. Save us some money. Dollar boxes are cool for younger kids going there with their dads. Because they'll find a player they like who's not necessarily good. And they'll find a pink cracked ice they think looks cool. Say they like Darnell Mooney. A water suit for Atlanta. Cracked dice relic. A dollar here. Dad gives the guy a dollar, he takes it home. Do you know what a pink cracked dice is? Does that tickle your fancy? It's a retail parallel. This guy knows. He knows. He knows Michael boxes. Yeah, listen. Sometimes we make dollar boxes when we do shows. Every once in a while, Ian will set up with me at a show. There is a real art to doing that. Because it can't be too bad or too good. That's right. Balance of that is really tricky and that's the fun of it for me because I'm looking for the nuggets, the tiny nuggets and a $40 nugget. Ian is a good nugget. It's a good nugget. I don't know if I found that card and searching through his it might have been mine. The Darnell Mooney. That's not a $40 card. That's a dollar at best. That's the dollar. Pretty sure I found the card. I'm like 70% sure at a show. I have this thing about dollar boxes when we set up a show is I don't want to take it home. So usually I have this rule. If it's the second half of the show and any kid comes up, if the kid is stretching it, anybody younger than say 20 comes up and offers to buy more than 20 cards out of the box, I take the $20 and just take the rest of the box. Is $.