1554 - Father/Son: Cage Lawyer and son Ian, Part 2

Foreign. Welcome Dr. James Beckett. Sports Card insights. Father son episode with Cage lawyer and his 13 year old son Ian. Thanks. Sponsors Tops Panini Upper Deck Heritage Auctions Hugging the Scott Auctions, Mike Stadium Sports Cards, Burbank sports cards, compse.com and Beckett Media. Beckett Grading, Beckett Authentication. Here's our conversation. Okay, question for both of y'. All. You've been given a trip for both of you, separately or together. And you get to choose where you want to go. You can either go to the super bowl or you can go to the Fanatics Fest, or you can go to the national or you can go to the World cup final or go to Disney World or Oof. You go to Comic Con and you can go separately or together. You don't both have to pick the same thing. But anything there that grabbed you because the ticket is paid for, hotel's paid. I know what he's going to say. Okay, take a guess. He's going to say the World Cup Final. Oh, that's what I thought. That's really what I thought. Yeah. So second, he might say the national, but I'll let him explain why. And I'm going to say is the national because every year he manages to find someone that gets him a room or a ticket and somehow he can't squeeze another one for me. Somehow Joe Drelich and the national team needs to pay you for that answer. You turn down the World Cup Finals. The Super Bowl. I think Joe might be listening. So there may be a ticket in the mail, but it's more than just a ticket. Ian. I love tickets. Joe, he's. Yeah, okay, but it's the hotel, it's the travel, the food. So are you saying you'd be on your best behavior? Oh, 100%. The thing is with the National. I thought you were gonna say Fanatics Fest because I thought you guys did that. We. If you're offering an all expense paid, that's why we wouldn't do. It's a corner, you know, all expense paid for the admission. The Fanatics Fest, that's a block away from my office. So that's an easy commute for us. We'll definitely be there. It'll be the third straight one for us. We have fun at that. Listen, I know it's not the national, the same type of show as everybody else does, but I'll shut up. I talk for a living. But what do you like about Fanatics Fest? That's different about the Fanatics Fest. They have a side for cards, but they also have a side for Activities my dad will be selling. What did you sell at the last show? Just give me one. I know you sold a downtown. I sold a bunch of stuff, yes. And then I'd be on the side hanging out with one of my friends, kicking a soccer ball at a Target, trying to win tickets to a Premier league game. Right. Or holding a trophy or running the 40 yard dash pitcher. It's cool because there's stuff for them to do a lot of activation and it's something for kids that aren't in sports cards that they could still do. My sense though is if you had 10 friends that were into collecting, nine out of 10 of them would rather go to Fanatics Festival than the National. You're the exceptional and then maybe that's because your dad is just a great experience. Yeah. Because he's been to the Fanatics Fest and never been to national. So I kind of knew I want to experience the other experience. Let's say I went to the national last year. I would probably pick Fanatics Fest because maybe the national wasn't that entertaining. Not the World Cup Final? No. What? I'm surprised you gonna just watch that on tv. Listen, I would love to take him to the National. It's one of those things where there's late night trade nights and he would not want to go to sleep, he'd want to burn. He'd be at the bar drink until all hours. He'd be at Rivers Casino, he'd be gambling, he'd be playing blackjack. This guy, I go to sleep early, he's out partying, he's chasing the ladies. So I don't know if I could control him in Chicago. Jim, you're asking for trouble. Ian, do you have more hobby friends that are real life or more that are social media you see physically or just guys that you connect with? If you go to the national, are you going to see some of your friends? There are. They're going to be people you've connected with in through various social friends who go. So I definitely have friends that go to shows that I know too. I go to school with sometimes I bring people to shows just to take them and get them out of their parents hair. But I don't see anybody mainly from a show that I've seen online. Tough question because people in the hobby might not want to be friends because he's 13. But if you keep going a bunch of times the National, Ian, you'll connect and you'll put a name with a face and like your dad, you guys both have big Personalities, and so that's memorable, and that's going to be fun. People like his commentary in the podcast. People send me messages. Your son put you in your place. And I'm like, all right, I'll tell him. How are you guys different? Because it seems like you're a lot alike. So, Ian, how are you like your dad or not like your dad? I know you like your dad, but how are you similar to your dad or not? I am very similar towards him because he is almost like a teacher to me. And if he teaches me the skills that I have, it's going to be the same thing I have of him. But we do have differences, like you said. How are we different? We collect different things. Like he'll be on the sports side and I'll be on the Pokemon side. Or he'll be doing football and I'll be doing basketball. This is gonna sound interesting here. A little hot take. But he's more of a gambler. Oh, yeah, I took more. Yeah, much more of a gambler than me. And maybe that's Wemby instead of Shay. Even when Shay is odds to win, maybe that's decades of losing as a gambler. You stick your hand in the fire enough times, you realize you're gonna get burnt. He hasn't been burnt yet, so that's part of it. But the kid, he likes breaking. That's an exciting thing. He wants to go on like fanatics, collect or whatnot. And hey, let's get in a break, right? Yeah. I thought you got disillusioned by breaks a few months ago. Weren't getting the return and you were dabbling in the stock market. Your dad gave you a choice, and he said, let's buy some Nvidia. Yep. Google, right? Google for Nvidia for him. He likes Google. He's a big Google guy. Google's down. But even that, we still try to open on Fridays. He'll do Pokemon. When top scrolling football came out, we still went on and broke some. We didn't really do too well at all, but there's fun in it. That is the continued lesson you want to say at the end of it without being a total buzzkill. All right, we just spent 500 bucks on fanatics. Think about what you could have got. And when that package comes and we open it up, that's 500 bucks. What else would you have spent that $500 on? Whether it's stocks, cards, whatever. What could you have bought with that instead? Sometimes that doesn't go over well. It's a Tough line for me, too, because I want to have fun with them and I want to keep this fun. He also wants to make it a lesson. And if he's saying, hey, let's break some cards and we don't do well, I don't want him to feel guilty, like. But you haven't given him the choice of spending 500 bucks on a box or putting a 500 bet. That's all or nothing. The outcome of the game or prediction markets and things like that. I mean, to me, that's insidious. Even though we all have opinions, if we're insistent, we all think we have an edge. But when you make a mistake with a sports card, you still have the card. Yeah. A hundred percent. You bet on the odds that you could have gotten for the Knicks, the most miraculous comeback. And you can bet during the game now. Yeah. Live betting. And people could have gotten 100 to 1 odds when they're down 29 points. When they were down two games to one to Atlanta, they were 35 to 1 to win the championship. You can pull the odds like crazy on the stuff that sounds away from, yeah, betting. Yeah. But there's no 35 to ones that much in sports cards. No. But why should we get upset that your Jaylen Brunson only went up a thousand percent? Go up 35 to 1. They went up 10 to 1. And you're going to complain and you've enjoyed watching him come through. If you're a Knicks fan or a former Dallas Maverick fan, look at that court that they fumbled. Yeah. Pretty crazy. Yeah, they could. Luca and Brunson together. Forget about it. Come on now. Ian, one thing I admire about your dad is that I think every time somebody dms him, he DMS him back. And that is impressive. Do you aspire to do that or do you understand the commitment? That is because I think it's very admirable. I will definitely strive to do that. I try to be as respectful as I can. If I were to be in that situation, I would truly try to reply to everybody. Do you know why I do it? Because it's always feedback, and you want to know what other people are thinking about it. Important. Sure. Feedback. But if I didn't answer these people and I didn't have these people commenting on my show, would I have a show? The reason I'm able to have a podcast and do what I do and have fun with it is because of the folks who are sending me messages. What kind of person would I be not responding? It's part of your brand now. It's part of your brand. It's part of who you are. And if you're going to be Cage Lawyer Junior, I'm just saying that's the standard that's being set. What questions do you guys have for me? What gave you the idea to start a company 50 years ago? Everybody said it was a stupid idea. And I knew I could. Back to the contrarian question. I'm a little bit of a contrarian. Yeah. It had never been done. It was a challenge, but it was a challenge. I thought, I can do this. Everybody said, ah, it's stupid. You'd neck. And I said, just watch me. And just like everything in the hobby, you're not an overnight success. You gotta pay your dues. You guys are paying your dues. I paid my dues, and it needed to be done, Ian. People wanted to know what cards were worth, and people were being taken advantage of. We were the first clearinghouse, really, for comps. Originally it was just me, and I knew almost all the dealers. Back when it was a lot smaller, I hit all the big shows because there were a lot less shows there. So it was like a clearinghouse for the comps, and things weren't moving as fast. So gradually, more and more acceptance. And we went from annual price guides to monthly price guides, but now it's at the speed of light. I got a question for you. Does something come out once a month, once a week? A new TV show? Something that comes out that you're looking forward to, and it's the thing that you look forward to, and you got to rip it open or watch it like a cartoon or a TV show or anything like that. You know what I'm talking about? Maybe not a new show necessarily. Maybe when there is a show I've already seen and they come out with a new season, right? And you're like, I got to watch. I got to see what happened with this new thing. I want to see if anything happens with the people in it. I don't know if anybody. When I was your age, what I look forward to was the arrows in the magazine that he put out once a month. And I was like, let's see, what's Jerome Walton doing? He's refuting your question in the sense that nowadays people binge. Yeah, they binge. It's exactly that. Give me all 10 episodes the whole season. Yeah, I just binge them. But part of the hobby in those days, the rhythm of monthly price guides really was very well accepted. You'd go to shows every Month, but it's just speed of light now. Now it's so like this. We'll price a card the night before the show, and one sells at 12:30 in the morning for 100 bucks. You get to the show, there's another card ladder that's 150, $200 cheaper. And you're like, I can't sell this card today because the dealer's just going to look at that. I can't sell it to them. What's funny is, if I try to buy it from them using that comp, like, oh, no, no, that's not a real sale. Ian, what your dad's talking about is, in some of these situations, it wasn't being contrary or zigging instead of zagging. It was looking at a whole new approach. A whole new business opportunity was there and the people that were bold were able to take advantage of it. Jim, you've seen so many different versions of the hobby. Not just talking decades, but just different ways of doing it, the whole deal. Do you like where we are now? It was simpler 50 years ago, that's for sure, and you could buy anything you wanted if you could find it. Problem is, you couldn't find it. But if you did find it, it wouldn't be very expensive and then you'd have difficulty selling it, but you would prize it. You weren't thinking about flipping anything, then duplicates. So it was simpler and it was fun and you could know everybody. So now it's just gotten extra big. Snap your fingers and make it go back to that, would you? You can't. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. But in fact, what I'm hoping for is the opposite, because it's not about me. But if fanatics can 10x this again, not the prices, but the number of collectors and not even the number of cards, but 10x the number of collectors, then it's going to be a lifetime of enjoyment for Ian and for me. As long as I got. For long as you got Cage, it's going to be a great ride. There still could be some ups and downs, but it's more up than down and I'm happy about that. I want to be a catalyst. I'm in the background now. I'm older senior statesman now. Ian, do you like when I sell cards? Not one bit. Why? That is my inheritance. I'm with you on that. Not because he doesn't want it to go because of exactly what you just talked about. What happens when I sell a card? Come on. It's not his selling his inheritance. He tells me my sister's gonna get mom's jewelry and clothing and I'm gonna get his cards if any are left. I think you just soften him up so that he'll take you to the nationally and it might be working. Actually doesn't listen, I am not the boss. One of these days. The card part of the national is maybe 10 times what the card part of Fanatics Fest is. It's so overwhelming of being mainly cards and a lot of activations from the card companies and the grading companies. But you just don't have this other amazing stuff at the Fanatics Fest with the WWE or the wrestling coming on and all that stuff. It's very cool. Maybe you get a little bit older. I take you. I like the museum part. Basically in the middle where you know, you have Honus Wagner on display. You have a mantle, a really high grade mantle on display. You get to see it. Very cool. I'll look forward to seeing you there one of these years. My goal is to be there when you're there, Ian. Mine too. I've been to every national since the very beginning and it's just blossomed and blossomed and there's kids there that I saw that were infants that are now dealers. They were the kids of some of my friends that are. Jim, you get asked questions all the time about your cards and stuff. This one maybe you don't get asked. Is there kind of like a group chat of people who have been at every national? Do you guys get together at the national, go to a steakhouse and commemorate? Not exactly, but I know who they are and they know. Yeah. And I go see them every time and I have at least one OG dinner and it's with some of those guys. It's not a fraternity, but it's noteworthy. Again, a lot of the guys are not there because they passed away. That said, I will say this, of the guys that are like that cage, they still absolutely love the hobby and eat, sleep and drink it. They're almost exclusively vintage. And that's how I got started because I in relationship with all those guys and that's how I had my own knowledge. Plus the knowledge of all these other guys that were so into it and we've watched it blossom and it's been great. The vintage space is going to be interesting. And I've never heard anybody actually talk about this and I'm sure I could do a whole episode about it. But the more we move forward with people getting into ultra modern cards, Pokemon other sports, you name it. And the more you have people die, I have to say it. Jim, my dad, the people who were at the first national with you. Unless people know and are experts about the vintage cards, that becomes a very important thing. There's gonna be less and less people out there who know it really well. That's why I'm doing a podcast and that's why I have all those books. Once it's out there, it's out there and I want to make sure I'm given an accurate record. And interviewing old timers as well as new timers, because it's a very dynamic hobby and it's very encouraging that there's year olds like Ian who are sharp, who are really enjoying it. Like I say, the greatest father son hobby in history. Not even a close second because I'm fat and out of shape. So I'm not going to go play basketball with him. I can play cards all day long. I don't have to be in good shape. Fair enough. Enjoyed it, guys. Great job. Cage, I'll see you at the National.