Did He Say OVERRATED??? Extra Innings With The Odd Couple!!

What's going on, everybody? We got extra innings on the sports card clubhouse and it's the Odd Couple this month, this week. And I'm here with them. I'm. I'm here with the guys. So, Tony Petty, are you guys sure you're okay with me being a participant here? Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, look, by, by the time this thing comes out and we've been shuffled behind all the other big stars that. Oh, Yu-Gi-Oh we've fallen behind. I think the only people we're in front of now is Jake and Chatterhead, but. And now that my mic is working. Yu-Gi-Oh exactly. Thanks for telling me. It's always something. Who knows how the picture is going to be, but now, anyways. Yu-Gi-Oh by the time this comes out, they have already seen you on the Odd Couple. You are our first special guest. We have to do this. I am technically challenged, and if I'm technically challenged, Petty is a caveman. Like this guy. You one-of-one kidding. So, you know, I always have to try to figure out how to send extra innings. I said, why don't you just do it and you can upload it. So that's how this happened. All right, well, let me, let me just share our topic now as this plays this week. Earlier in the week, Junk Wax Hero Mike and I on surface issues had a conversation about what makes a particular player have long term collectability. So. So the audience hopefully will have already listened to that or watched that. I would have come out on Tuesday, but I think you guys have a difference of opinion on a particular player. And so I wanted to kind of hear you guys share your thoughts about that player. And we're gonna talk. I want to talk about all the goats, don't I? Oh, I mean, you could, you could talk as long as you want. I mean, this is what I've been preaching ever since I've been on YouTube watching all these kids. And you know, right now they're getting the last laugh too, with just pretty much everything going skyrocketing. But I mean, when you see this guy last night, some guy named Mackerel calibration, having a card go for 1.3 million. The guys played one year or something in the hockey, in the NHL. I mean, you got, you got problems. I mean, and you're. You. Basically, it boils down to what I been saying since day one. It basically is a burrito of goats. Now people have their ideas of their different goats. You know, you could start to put Ohtani now in there now that he's five years in the league or Past that five year mark you got your Jordans and your curries in basketball and I guess there's this Conor McGregor guy in hockey. You're talking about Celebrini earlier. If you weren't able to celebrate. Celebrating whatever his name is. Gabrielle, let me ask you this. Let me start with you Petty. When you talk about the top tier burrito guys. Yu-Gi-Oh Talk about the all time greats I have. I want to just at least start here. Is Willie Mays a top tier burrito guy? Is he a meat, is he a. A protein? Or is he the guacamole? I mean he's. He's protein all the way. He is USDA organic meat. And I think what you fail to remember about Maze is he was just so popular and so damn good that he was unlike anything baseball's ever seen. Now, now pretty much is you are trying to measure up to Willie Mays. Come on. That's all you're trying to do. He don't forget he missed a year. You know the guy had a long career. Over 20 years, 20 all star games. 660 homers. Would have hit 700 if he would have played. Not if he wouldn't have went to the war for one year. And I mean there's just. They. The guy had the, the basket catch where he only Tribute two balls in his entire career. I mean you don't see guys like this. He stole bases. Everybody, every kid wanted to be him. Flying around the bases, knocking their hat off like he would do around the base. You know, that's that that was Willie Mays. Now let me capture the imagination. He was baseball. Now okay, so you just described why Willie Mays is an all time great baseball player. Yu-Gi-Oh Let me follow up and say as far as the hobby is concerned is. Is he a top tier collectible, long term collectibility. There's so many issues of him. Okay. This is what is people are not understanding about all this new coming out right now. You got one of ones of one of one of ones. A parallel this a laundry tag that a National Treasures this kaboomi. You got fake signatures everywhere. These guys are gonna sign until they're dead. They're still playing. There is gonna be such a dilution of pollution like you've never seen before in your life. There's so much you can't. And that that's somewhat what's happened with Maze is that he was so popular that there. What there is a lot of issues out there of him. But. But I don't see his home run, his Cards going down. His home run Derby card is doubled every year for, for 10 years. His Stallmeyer card in two years is doubled. You know, the hires, rarities have doubled. I mean, everything that he's got is going up. Are they. Is he Mickey Mantle? Like, no, he probably wasn't the nicest guy to a lot of people. You know that. That's all in the 80s and 90s. May have heard him. He wasn't just like Joe DiMaggio, you know, he wasn't Mickey Mantle in that respect. He, he did play with the Giants. So, I mean, this is a lesson though, for all these collectors right now that are watching. Ellie Deli Sandwich and all these other out there, Bichette and Vladi Guerrero Jr. And I mean, every oddly, Rushman and what's the other idiot, Gunner, Hunt, Henderson, they're buying these cards. Like these guys are gun good. They're hitting 2:20, every one of them, and all they do is they just strike out. It's like it's expected of them to, to have like a strikeout rate of.500 and a batting average of.200. Because it's a game now of bombs of walking homers and striking out and this and getting injured. You got another guy, this o' Neill Cruz on Pittsburgh. The guy's having a great year. What happens? He slides into home. Oh, my thumb. I'm out a couple days. Oh, really? Now you're at two and a half months. You got Blake Snell, another guy. Oh, I pitched a little too much last year. I got hammered in the World Series, just mauled. But he's one of the best pitchers in the league, bar none. Right. I got loose bodies. What? The loose bodies and I never heard of the injury in 50 years. Now everybody's got loose bodies. You got the, the trumpet guy, can't even get it out. He's got an 11 era, just gives up walks. Loose body injury again. I mean, it is just pathetic how weak tits these guys are and how injured and how they are just so babied. This injury that o' Neill Cruz has. Some people say he broke three bones in his hand, metacarpsical, whatever the hell it's called. These guys would play with that and they'd still hit 250 or 270. They're not going to miss three quarters of a season. This other phenom, Paul Skinnies, how great is he? I figured he'd throw his arm out and he one-of-one done yet. He will throw his arm out. You know it. And right now he can't get anybody out either. He stinks. He's on another roll. But yet his patches go for a million. This is not going to end well. It starts with the. In baseball one-of-one where I'm coming From, you have 10 to 12 guys that are the goats. And that is what I've been preaching since day one. It's been pretty good to me. And now anybody can say that when times are good, but times weren't good forever. And still I just plotted along. No, I'm not hitting the, you know, the, the, the, the grand slams every time. I'm just taking my singles with my hits. And then all of a sudden, what do you know, my portfolio is up a million dollars, you know, so I've done something right. It's not. I'm not chasing Harry Jr. On Atlanta or Justin Fields or Justin Dart or any one of the CJ Strau or whatever his name. These guys are just idiotic. Spending even a dollar on the. A dollar is too much. So, Yu-Gi-Oh Willie Mays is he hurt a little bit by living long. And his cards went up in the last 10 years. Huge. Can't wait for the guy to die, right? So his cards can go up. Well, he was the first one where the cards went the other way, wasn't he? And now everybody, what, they don't like him now all of a sudden. So he's still one of the top five, probably the best player that ever played, game bar none. And he's still a top five in my collectible. You have Wagner, Ruth, Cobb, Mantle, Clementi, Aaron Mays. I mean, how many is that? Seven? I mean, so if he's done in the top five to seven. Yu-Gi-Oh brains. Go ahead. You don't, like, don't collect it. That's more for me. I'll take my, I'll take my will and, and some of his cards are really good and rare. And take a look at that Home Run Derby, why don't you. And why don't you go to try buy one while you're at it? So the whole impetus of this conversation was a conversation Greg and David Chase and had. And, and we were just discussing this, and so it came up now. Petty, you nailed it, buddy. I don't understand the modern game and why they're paying so much money for those that. So I'm gonna take that all the way out of the equation. We're just gonna shove that over in the corner and we're all gonna agree that we don't get it. It doesn't make Sense at some point, the musical chairs, somebody, the music's gonna stop and somebody one-of-one gonna have a chair. And they paid a million three for some hockey card and the dude tears his ACL his second year and he's never the same and you're out. I mean, the card goes to nothing. So, you know. But anyways, what the conversation was was even though players were all time greats, okay? So please understand the premise. I don't need John Mangini making a video about this, okay? So please understand what I'm saying. This is not me hating on somebody. I'm just stating a theory. My theory is this. In vintage card collecting, taking the modern shoving over there, there are three things that make a hobby goat card. One is you got to have a great story. You gotta have Shoeless Joe Jackson story. You know, Babe Ruth has a great story. Ty Cobb has a great story. You gotta have a story. You gotta have. If you don't have a story, you gotta have a moment. Or you gotta have some number that people know. Like Hank Aaron had the 715 home run. You got Ben Scully on the call. You got that moment that people don't forget. You know, Cal Ripken Jr. Has a moment. I doesn't mean he. He's one of the goat guys. So, you know, it doesn't always work that way. And then the other thing was you got to have a Mount Rushmore card because even though Hannes Wagner was really good without his T206, I'm arguing that his cards aren't worth as much. You know, I'm arguing that one of the reasons Mickey Mantle's cards are what they are is because the Topps, you got a Mount Rushmore card in there. It takes all the real estate in that player's card and raises it. The water level rises. So it's those three prerequisites. For me, I heard iconic card stories. What was the other one? You gotta have iconic. You gotta have a Mount Rushmore card. Yep. You gotta have just a moment. Like there's got to be like maybe the over the. Over the head basket catch and throwing the guy out at second base. You don't. I'll get that. I'll get that. That's not a landmark moment then. No, it's not. You. You haven't seen that. You haven't showed your kids that play on tape. I have. And what are they? It's just an average play that the guy catches. It's not a 350 foot ballpark. It's 480ft. The center. The guy ran all the way after the ball and threw the guy out at second. I'll tell the story. Why? Okay. It's black and white. It's grainy. My kids one-of-one even watch. Has nothing to do with it. My kids one-of-one even watch a movie if it's black and white. So now every, every night on MLB Channel or Sports center when they actually show sports clips, you're seeing some dude jump over the fence, rob it, come back in, it's in color. Willie Maze did it in color in the 1960s against the Dodgers. Every Candlestick park against a chain link iron fence. Nobody crashing into Jim Ray Hart. Listen, I'm not, I'm not dogging made. I'm saying if you're not a baseball historian of our age and you don't understand the polo grounds and the dimensions on how far he ran, if you've got to explain the moment. It's not really a moment. I mean, Dwight Clark has the catch and. And so did I piss him off or did Petty just got up and is getting something off the wall? Oh, oh, we're in trouble. He's getting something off the wall. That's not a moment right there. It's a. It looks like a guy. Look at that. So Jim Edmonds. We should all collect Jim Edmonds cards because he made a catch in center field that he was playing too shallow on, ran back and dove over his head. Do we all get Jim Edmonds cards? I was a. You know what? He doesn't have 660 homies. He didn't catch the ball with a basket catch. That was a great catch. That. But I mean, my point is I'm not even a Giant fan. I hate the Giant. But hear me out, Petty, hear me out. I'm not arguing with you because I, I know, I know Maze was one of the greatest players. I'm talking about people in. Not in our generation. You know, you're talking about him running around the bases and throwing his hat off. Kids today don't know that. So he does. He. My grandkids know it. We do it. That's awesome. He doesn't have a story. He doesn't. No, not. You haven't read his book. He's got great. Do you think he has a story comparable to some of the other stories that guy did? A. Roberto Clemente has a story. Dude, that's a story. Well, I mean, what do you want? Great Latin player. He died in a plane crash trying to take food to people who Were dying. Willie Mays came up in an era when black people were drinking out of a different water fountain. I totally get it. I do. You're preaching to the choir. I know, but I don't think you read. But you don't hold it. I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about people younger than us. Everybody knows how Willie Maze is. Listen how it rolls off the tongue. Willie Mays look at the top hitters to go this way. Look, I mean, crazy look at the top hitters in baseball. All right? He is a top hitter in baseball. Okay, let's jump off the maze thing because that's obviously a hot button. Babe Ruth is Babe Ruth. I mean, he's a verb. If you're the best accountant, you're the Babe Ruth of accounting. Like Babe Ruth. Ty Cobb, he had movies, okay? Even though the movie, you know, talk trash about him, it became. In public. The public knows him. They know the movie. If you bring up Ty Cobb, they think bad guy. And, you know, you get the whole thing. Then you got Aaron, you know, he held that, the most sacred record in baseball. He held that record only to get ripped out of it by some freaking cheater. And so, you know, he's even kind of a figure now. That is. People kind of look at him and go, man, bless his heart. You know, that's terrible. So he's got that story and he's got the number. My point is Stan Muell, one of the greatest players of all time, his cards one-of-one up there with Mantle. His cards a story. I mean, he's a great hitter. My point. Well, he played the harmonica and he was a nice guy. Exactly. And he. And he was all for black. Why everybody out there spinning $50,000 on Stan Mutual cars? What about Nap Lashua? The guy was one of the greatest hitters in the pre war era. Why is he not collectible? He is, but he's not. He's not the meat of your burrito. He did. No, he doesn't have the cards. That. But he also doesn't have the story. He doesn't have the numbers. But he has a story too. I mean, that guy, what he did for kids, he would go before he would. He would take. He would pick kids up in his Cadillac and he would go and he would play stickball on the street. I know these kids. I mean, and then he would. Guys that. That were like Kurt Flood, took them under his wing and gave him a bunch of his suits, you know, so he could wear suits and he could dress up and look a little bit better. I mean, the guy did a lot for. For people and for baseball. Thank you. I mean, Yu-Gi-Oh he got, you know, to the point where he had to go work for the casinos. He got kicked out of baseball for working at the casinos with Mantle because they needed to make money because these guys didn't make money. Frankly, he. He made a lot of money, but he didn't manage his money well. So I'm not trying to tell people that Willie Mays wasn't one of the greatest players of all time. I think he was too. I'm trying to explain why in my mind. I'm just trying to make sense of it. Why is he not on par with Mantle? Clemente's outpacing. Oh, it's always been though. I mean, that's something. I mean, I think Mantle just captured. He is just captured, Maze. When I was on a paper, he broke the color barrier. People are fascinated with it. But now his story, that's another his story. Now Larry Dovey has a great story, but he's not turning into the meat of anybody's burrito because he doesn't have a movie and he one-of-one been taught in schools. That's my point. The future. Where is Ma gonna end up? I don't know. He'll end up in the top 10. That's where he'll end up. Bar none other than that. I mean, I'll certain the guy who's certainly not going to pass him is oddly Rushman. That's a guy that's not. I agree, Dante Bte or any of these other idiots. Ornel Cruz, wandering Franco Domingo, Jimenez, whatever his name is. Jalen Domingo. I hear these idiots. I heard Kyle Wilson say this a while back and on something. I don't even remember what it was. I don't really watch his stuff. But he said it really is only like three guys in every generation that turns into those goat guys that go onto another plateau. And if you look in the pre war era, it's Shoeless Joe Jackson story, it's Babe Ruth and it's Ty Cobb and then you got Wagner in there. Those are the top four. And then you get into that post war era and then you got Mantle, you got Jackie, now Ted Williams, you got Ted Williams because look at that story. DiMaggio. DiMaggio and Clemente in Mays. But some of those are going to rise and some of those are going to fall. They already have. When I was really not really gonna. They're all rising. That's all they are but come arising at different levels. If you get a Beckett price. If you get a Beckett price guide from the 1990s and you look up what Jackie Robinson's card sold for in relevant to what Willie Mays and Hank Aaron were selling for Campanella in 52 his card sold for more. He catcher. Catchers are. Catchers are not. Yogi Bears were selling for more. What happened? Because over time people fade and I don't know. And what I'm saying is because Maze, if. If Greg were to do his magic and pull up card ladder and look at Maze's endeavor. I'm trying to tell you what happens was when he died, people were building up and overpaying for his and there's too much of it. It's a simple supply and demand issue. Pro. The same thing very possibly could happen with Sandy Koufax. I mean it's possible. It's. It's always been when a guy dies their goes up. People been buying that with that? Not so much people like me because I never thought about it. But Yu-Gi-Oh dealers and people are wanting the quick rich guys praying for him to die every day for the last 10 years. That's terrible. Yu-Gi-Oh The thing with Koufax, if you'll notice, none of those guys I mentioned were pitchers. Now Nolan Ryan, he's breaking the mold because he's so legendary. Because he pitched in really three decades and he was dominant in those decades. And we're starting to see too the guy in my era that's kind of separating himself is Ken Griffey Jr. I think in 30 years when they do the All Star game in Seattle and they're going to roll him out some golf cart like they did Ted Williams at Fenway. And Ken Griffey Jr. Is going to be the guy they pull on the pitchers mound and all the guys are going to want talk to him and he's going to be revered because he's kind of got that aura. There's really not anybody still alive with that aura. I mean you think about it, all the greats have died. I think no one play a quick game with you guys. Let's play a quick game. This will be to wrap up this extra innings episode. This is August 1986. Beckett Monthly. Okay, August 1986. I just pulled up the 1952 top set, okay. And I wrote down the values of the top five players. The top five cards in that set. 1952 tops. August 1986. Who do you think was number one? It was mantle. It's always been agreed. Okay. That was $2800. Mantle was number one. Okay. $2800 number. And that had doubled. And that had doubled in 14 years. And. And. Okay, so who do you think was number two? Number two was Maze. I'm gonna say Capanella. Campanella. Was it really number two at $500? Yu-Gi-Oh Number three. Who do you think was number three? It was either Maze or Matthews. Yu-Gi-Oh I think Matthews. Oh, did I miss Matthews? Because that was a good call. He's the number one card, right? No, it's the last card. Rookie card. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh Oh, he was on the. Oh, I. I blew it. I screwed up the whole thing because I didn't see there were four cards on the next page. Oh, okay. Matthews was number two at 5. 25. Okay, okay. All right. Okay, so let's re. Let's go back and revisit this. So we have number one was mantle, 2800. Matthews was number two at 525. Number three was campy. I'm very impressed with that poll, by the way, Petty. That was number four. What we agree, based on what you said is maze. $450. Who do you think was number five? I mean, it's got to be Jackie at that point, but I don't think it'll be Jackie. Who can it be? Yogi? I think it's Yogi. No, who is it? It's Jackie. Is it 375, but number six is gonna. It blew my mind. Great. Great guesses. Great guesses. No, number six. Peewee Reese. That is. Yu-Gi-Oh So you see how things change. Even though guys were all time great. It's like people shut. They shuffle. People, for whatever reason, shuffle up. Some people shuffle down. I mean, if you look at what Stan Musial's cards were going for back then, like, you know, was crazy. Ted Williams was going for more. The 54. Bowman. Ted Williams was going for a ton of money. So. Yu-Gi-Oh that's my point. I'm not saying don't collect those guys. I'm not saying they weren't the greatest of all time. I'm saying there is a reason, and we don't really know what that is. But ultimately the hobby chooses. Yu-Gi-Oh right now the hobby is choosing. You know, like a lot of the 1990 cards right now are going insane. Especially if you, you know, with. With grades of 10, which are just obscene. How, how the grading and. And how a 10 makes such a difference. It's just. I mean, I don't know. I. I don't think I'll be around to see it all transpire, which I'm glad. Well, guys, I gotta tell you, you guys were on fire tonight. This. I just was standing in the corner with my covers pulled up over my head. I've been wanting to get that out about Willie Maze for quite some time. Yu-Gi-Oh you were pretty fast now. I liked it. I love it. I love it. Thank you guys for doing this again. If you guys are not subscribed To Southern Collector 14, you gotta absolutely do that because these guys do a once a month episode together. The Odd Couple. And again, as. As we're recording this, my episode and conversation with Mike Junk Wax Hero, which airs Tuesday, has not yet aired. So they didn't hear what Mike Junk Wax Hero had to say before. What the hell does he know one-of-one Well, what My point. My point is this. A lot of what Tony just said has a lot of overlap to what Mike said. So I think they're much more cerebral than I am. I'm just a baseball fan for, you know, for close to 60 years. What do I know? All right, guys, thanks for. All right, peace, love, love you guys. Hey, I love my baseball cards.