Franken-Wagner Under the Microscope + Love of the Game Responds

Hi, friends, it's Dan Wilbur and Zach Sims and we're the hosts of My New Thing, a comedy podcast about obsessions. It's a show where we talk to comedians about their niche hobbies and their pop culture fixations. Everything from graffiti to 70s cinema and really anything in between. It's called My New Thing. Get it wherever you get your podcasts. Michael Jordan Sports Cards is a lifesty Sports cards and we live now Jeremy Lee in the building and every guess that you ever needed Sports cards after hours keep the hobby heated Updates, homie Talk like you never seen it Sports Cards Live and I could ever beat it Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now. Welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host, Jeremy Lee. Welcome back to Sports Cards Live. Cage, Lawyer. How are you, Cage? I'm feeling good, man. I think I was on the first one of these, the first ever. I think I was one of the guests on the first Saturday show ever. I was there a couple times and, you know, then I pissed Jeremy off a few times and, you know, it happens every. Happens every couple years, Cage, you know, we took a little break, but we're back, we're back. Rolling now. We're back, we're back, we're back. You were on. Listen, we Sports Cards back together changed in November of 2024. Completely changed from being a one on one interview to a variety show of sorts. And yeah, Cage, you came on a couple times early on. Yeah, you had, your son came on once as well. I believe he, he made an appearance too. So that was nice. So tell us about, Listen, pass behind us. Cage, tell us a little bit about how, how Fanatics Fest has been for you. Any, any key observations that maybe we're not hearing elsewhere thus far. I mean, so the, the biggest one, the biggest key observation, one, it's never going to be the National. I'm sure you hear that everywhere, right? I mean, you know, if you're going for value boxes, you're going for, you know, card history, you. It's very hard for anything that's been around for a year, two or three, to compete with something that's been around for as long and has the history that the national does. The national caters to a completely different audience. I mean, it really just does. You know, there are vintage sections, right? The museum stuff that you, you go to the national for. It almost seems out of place at Fanatics. You know, memory lane is in a little booth and there's this honest Wagner bonus. Wagner, Hannes Wagner, whatever you want. To call him Wagner. Honus Bonus. I don't even know what his name is, but if you haven't seen it yet, check out my. My reel that I recorded with Memory Lane and Ezra Levine, and Memory Lane does not know how to do captions. Somehow the word dick is in there. I have no idea. I didn't say that. But it's part of the captions. It's a lot of fun. I didn't say that. Abbreviation for Richard. Sorry. Evergreen. I'm gonna say it again later. Don't worry. But go check that out. But it's. It's just. It's there. It's just in the middle of nothing. There's no, you know, museum area. There's no, you know, Nashville is a very good job of. If you're going to walk through this section, you're going to see the multiple auction houses, you're going to see all of the cards that are on display. You know, you like to go look at Gordy House jock strap and, you know, there's the Honus Bonus somewhere else. But this is just. Is one weird card and it looks out of place there. And that's, I guess, because it's a, you know, it is. It's catering to a different audience. But let me give them some. Some flowers. Now, number one, I was there year one, and it's the same footprint, right? It's the main floor of the Javits Center. It is huge. I put a little, you know, reel up. It's a minute long. You guys can check it out Today, kind of showing half of the floor. It is gigantic. The first year, the cards were in the back, right? So when you walk in the main entrance, you didn't see cards. You had to actually seek out the cards. You'd have to walk through FIFA and walk through the UFC and walk through the soccer field and walk through WWE and the main state. The cards are everywhere, and the celebrities are brought to the cards over and over and over again. Whether it's call Anthony Towns, whether it's Livy Dunn, whether it's Tom Brady buying cards. The celebrities are brought to the cards to buy cards, and the celebrity interviews that they're doing with them, they're opening cards. I mean, I was a couple feet away from Tom Brady today, and he was opening a box of 2000 Bowman Chrome behind the scenes, looking for his own rookie auto there. Were there cameras on him or was it. I'm sure that that content will come out. But, but, but cameras, obviously. I mean, you want to share that with People just like, I'm sharing it with you. You know what I mean? But they want to open cards. You know that they're opening cards. Like, Carla Hounds is a legitimate, like, collector. He's. He wants to, like, own cards. It's kind of a little weird, but you wouldn't think he would, but he wants to open cards. And so that's 1, 2. There's an integration going on, which a lot of purists might not love. Fanatics is a huge company, and they have more than just cards. We know this. There's a sports book. They have, like a gaming area for 21 years. And over there was a cash bar. There's all kinds of stuff. But in their ecosystem, they use fan cash, which they can give you bonuses for. For free. You walk in there and you spin and get $5 free, $10 free, $20 of fan cash. It's almost like, you know, when FanDuel and DraftKings were trying to, you know, bring in people, and if you put $100 in, they match it with another hundred dollars of DraftKings bucks for bonus bets to play. Well, guess what you could do with fan cash there? Everything. I bought a box of cards on the way out, and they said, how you paying? And I said, well, cash. They're like, oh, yeah, we take cash. Credit card, fan cash. What do you mean, I'll pay with fan cash? I have fan cash. You know, I mean, let's. I'll pay with that because guess what? I bought my son a bunch of jerseys for Christmas and I got fan cash for it. You know, it's like credit back on your credit. Yeah, they're building. They're building an ecosystem. I think. I think I listened to one of your podcasts last night. I don't if. I don't know if you dropped it yesterday or the day before, but you were talking about how they are building something that is. What they're building isn't just meant to sell tops cards or. Or sell sports betting or spell jerseys or sell jerseys and hats. They are building a loyal, a foundation of loyalty to bring people into their ecosystem and to be in there for life. Like, they're buying lifelong customers. They're. They're marketing to and creating this thing. And it's. Is there can. And by the way, Cage, I don't know if you've met David Chase before. David, please be Cage. Guys, is there another example out there in. In society that has built some. That is building something like that or has built something like that? Oh, yes, there is. Guys, we all have them in our pocket. It's called Apple. It's called Apple. They're building lifelong customers who are reliant on their technology. And so it's not, it's not a brand new playbook. They're just applying it to their. Alex Bridgeforth. I think I said it before Alex said it. Apple. They are. It's a good example. Is that what you're picking up on this case? But. And there's a little more tour. It's Apple. I mean, Apple has credit cards, they have their own pay. But I don't, I don't know if Apple gives you like, you know, cash back or loyalty rewards, but one of the things that they just kind of dropped or at least for me I saw for the first time in the last week and I did mention on my show, Jeremy, is they have these loyalty tiers and I'm not exactly a big wig, right? I mean there's black label, you know, like a, like a, like an Amex black card where like Jerry Seinfeld has it, right. Then there's the platinum level where you know, fancy people get into lounges and the whole deal. Then there's gold and you know, I think I'm gold. I'm not platinum, but I'm definitely not black. You'll get there. You'll get there with the gold. You get free tickets to Fanatics Fest, you know what I mean? And there will be a time where the 4040 Lounge is open to the black level guests, the people who really lost a lot of money gambling that year, you know what I mean? Or this lounge that's there, you know, you, you can, you want to see the Kevin Hart, you know, ice bath and it's packed, right? When he's got Wemby in the ice bath on stage and you think that's cool and you want to go see that because it's packed. There's a lot of people watch that. Well, they got a little section of separate chairs on the side. And all you got to do is flash your platinum rewards level and you get the seats. It happened. I saw a Derek Jeter give a presentation, you know, like a whole speech with, with Novak Djokovic and Diana Tarasi and Alex Morgan. And I sat through that the whole deal. You know, I have my American Express card. I showed it and I was able to get into, you know, preferred seating area. You know, it's the same kind of thing. It really is. And, and you know, the national not doing that. You know what I mean? And look, for some people, I don't, I don't, you know, I'm sure they don't like this. It's, you know, I'm sure I can't read the comments while I'm here in Streamyard, but I'm sure, you know, there's, it's max of elitism to some, you know, like, hey, I'm not going to be gold. I just want to go through my value boxes and, you know, maybe Fanatics Fest is not for you. And, and I think they understand that. You know what I mean? You know, if they were on here and they were being interviewed, they would tell you that they're not trying to supplant national, you know, agreed. If there's anything I've seen, the hobby can have these shows, can have these shows two weeks apart and there's enough money, enough cards, enough interest, enough, you know, craziness going on in this space that you could have it. Look, just this weekend, Dallas, Burbank and this fanatics has all going on at once and by all accounts, all the shows are packed and all the shows are happening. Well, yeah, we have heard a bit that Burbank was slower than usual, but Dallas, from what I've heard here tonight at least, has been hopping like, like you cage just like one last sort of comment on something that we, that those of us that aren't there may not expect or know or realize. Is there any, any other observation you have from fanatics you could share with people to give some additional insight into the event itself? Something that we may not know, realize or expect. Something you kind of have to be there for. I'm sorry to put you on the spot, but is there anything else you can kind of send us off with? Yeah, I mean, just two things, right? If, if you're on the fence about going, obviously it's in New York. It's not the cheapest thing in the world to get here if you're not local. But if you're into celebrity sightings, if you're more, you know, involved in this hobby than just, I want to build a set, I want to do the cards. But, but you're in this because of your fandom, which obviously that's what fanatics is, right? I mean that Santas are short for fanatics. If you're in this because, you know, you're a rabid Nick fan and you want to pick your head up from the table, you're buying cards and call, Anthony Towns is literally walking five feet away from you and you can snap a picture with them or see Wemby or actually, you know, see some of these guys do a panel, you name it. This is probably a place you'd want to go. If that's not for you and you really just want to do cards and, you know, you want to, you know, build your 1965 top set, which is nothing wrong with. This is probably not the place. You know what I mean? And I'm not saying anything that's not already known, but the celebrity thing is cool. They changed it it this year. It used to be that kind of like they were like very guarded by security. They have, they put in these walkways this year. They call them Walk of Fame. There's two of them to go between the events and the stages and stuff. And what happens is you kind of know when a celebrity is going to come out and people line up along these walls and get high fives. With a cool little addition that they did. They had it almost like a de facto nick parade today with all the Knicks guys and call. Anthony Towns has the trophy and he's letting people touch the trophy and they're giving high fives and stuff like that. Like, you know, I haven't seen a lot of content or video about it and stuff, but. But like that's cool stuff if you're a fan of that. You know what I mean? Wrestling. So I mean there's like a wrestling con. Wrestling is still huge. It's not as big. First year it was almost like a wrestling event entirely. But I mean, they, they time this event. I. I don't know if they're gonna be able to catch lightning in a bottle like this ever again, to be honest. But this weekend is not only the FIFA finals, you know, your World cup finals, but you also had. Two blocks away is Madison Square Garden. It's literally two. Two city avenues, two blocks. It takes 15 minutes to walk it. And you just have the Knicks winning the championship. I mean, WWE event going on right now. There's so much stuff going on there. So it's. I mean, I can't really, you know, say that there's anything there that you're not going to see on the content. But I did speak to some people from fanatics and you know, believe me, don't believe me, I have no reason to lie to you. I didn't get a dollar from them. The. Every one of them says the same thing. I know you talk about 10x the hobby. They don't say that anymore. They talk about they, they want what's good for the Hobby. And honestly, if the national doing records is good for the hobby also, I really think they'd want to see that as well. I don't think they view it really as a, you know, competitive thing. I thought. I know that's a great talking point or a great headline for content like Fnatic Fest is going to kill the National. No, it's not. Because Fanatics Fest is just going to bring more people into it. Yeah, it's going to grow. It's going to grow the National. It's going to grow it 100%. Yeah. I will say one more thing before you bring other guests on. There's one thing this hobby cannot do without is right. And you know, you have sponsors. I only have. I have much less, but I have more also. We have one in common. Fanatics Fest would go on and it would be successful if they didn't have all the athletes. Fanatics Fest would go on and it would be successful if it wasn't the World Cup. It would be successful if Justin Bieber didn't happen to randomly pop by today. I mean, I happen to see he was, you know, a couple blocks away doing something and he just shows up and he's winning the games and he did a concert. I mean, it's, that's not happening at the national, but it could happen here in New York. Fanatics. But if Justin Bieber didn't show up, not Express would survive. You know what, you know what would kill it? If Card ladder went down for the weekend. Yeah. Because that in the card stuff, I mean, it is amazing. More than ever before. Everyone I see 12 year olds, it's a boom, boom, boom, card ladder. Boom, boom, boom, boom. What's the, what's the comp. What's it selling for? How much did it sell for last time? What's the last four sales? Okay, here's what. I'll pay you that. Believe it or not, that's the most important tool there. Yeah. Abs, you know what? You. You okay? Appreciate all the comments. I think you're probably. I think you're right. I agree with what you're saying. I hope you're gonna. I hope I. There's a new podcast for me to listen to later tonight and I'll send you off with this thought cage that maybe you can think about. And I hope to hear you speaking about it soon if you feel it's worthy, which is. You said that you feel like Fanatics just wants what's best for the hobby. Correct. I would like you to. I, I'm listen I'm gonna. I'll just. I would love it if I could hear you speaking to. What does that mean? What is. Don't say now. What is good for the hop, Good for who? Is good for fanatics? Good for the. Good for the purist collector. Good for the New Age collector. Good for who? That I think is key to what you were saying. I'd love to hear some thought on that. We can talk about it again later. Cage. Thanks for dropping by and for reporting everybody from the. From Fanatics Fest. We'll see you in the National. Take care. Take care, man. All right. Thanks Cage, for dropping by. Al. Al is in the chat. We're gonna bring him. We're gonna bring him on Josh. Josh had some difficulty. He had. He's gonna be back. We're gonna bring on Al and Josh in just a moment. I want to quickly do some comments that I've. I've. I've sequestered here into the Star section. Petty says Hans is short for Johannes. Okay? Honus is his American name, hence ho. Nas bonus, baby. All right, thank you, Petty. He also says it's friggin Honus. Let's not be stupid, you morons. That's Mike Petty. Patriot Sports Cards. Jeff says Carl Anthony Towns said he worked at a card store when he was a kid. I. I've seen content of him collecting. It's. It's absolutely awesome to see. Orlando says Fanatics is genius. Chris C Says the difference is Apple isn't a monopoly. Okay, the other difference is that Apple sells phones, Chris. And Fanatics sells sports. I mean, I wasn't looking for an exact analogy. I hear you, but the other thing is that Apple has strength. I think Android is maybe the unlicensed version of phones when you compare it to Apple. Map here says it won't be long before Fanatics has its own flagship hotel and casino. Makes me think of the hard rock. BP Squared says Fanatics has relationship with athletes that other companies don't. That's a massive edge for the company. And Jeff Will says Brady collected as a kid that collecting love doesn't go away. Look, the guy is rich, so his life is just different. Absolutely. As it should be. Okay, Josh, you're on in a different place now. We're going to bring Josh back on. Sorry the power outage here. All good, buddy. All good. All good. Thanks for coming back. And we're gonna bring Al. Al, you good? Give me a thumbs up, buddy, if you're ready to join us. All right, we already welcomed Joshua Adams, everybody. Please welcome Al Crissafoli from Love of the Game Auctions, the man who is auctioning off the Mr. Wagner card. Al, welcome to the show. How are you? So excited to be here? Hello everybody. And, and I got to tell you, I, I've been listening, I've been, I've been on for a couple hours now, listening first on YouTube and then in the studio. David, I completely agree about Worldwide Gum. Completely agree about Worldwide Gum. I think I'm prepared to sit here and talk all night about Worldwide Gum. And, and then also I agree about Fanatics. I was at Fanatics today, which was really, really cool. It was a really great experience. It was a lot of fun to be there. It's not an apples to apples comparison with the national at all. And you know, it was a lot of fun. It was a great experience. There were little kids there. I was talking to these two little girls, maybe about 11 or 12 years old that were there with their soccer team and they were talking about the wpbl which is about to debut at the end of this month in Springfield, Illinois, which I think is great. And you know, you could just feel this enthusiasm on the floor of the Javits center that I don't feel at the National. But at the same time, the national is about old friends. It's about museum quality baseball and sports history. It's a different thing. And I think there's plenty of room for both. So there's, there's. If you want to talk about that all night, we can. Al, I think you're right. I think there, there's. Fanatics Fest is not going to kill the national or vice versa. It's, I think Cage actually said it really well. It's going to, I think it's only going to help grow the national because Fanatics is doing a good job of. Listen, some people might think, might not think they're doing a good job. So I'll just say Fanatics is doing a job of growing the hobby. They are, they are growing the hobby, whether you like the direction they're growing it in or not. I mean, listen, they're a business. They have to drive revenue, shareholder value and profit and that's what, that's what they're gonna do. And hopefully somewhere in there they actually do care about the hobby. And I think that it's in their best interest to care about the hobby. The difference is they're a private company. They don't need to drive quarterly results. They actually can invest long term and not worry about those quarterly that are going to Hurt them on the stock market when. If. And when they ipo, which I think eventually they're gonna. Then they're. Then the story might. Might be different, and that's when you're gonna see a lot of people changing their tune or becoming really frustrated. If you don't like it now, just wait until that. If. Until that happens. What do you think of that, Al? I. I think it's. You're dead on. And. And I think, you know, there's. There's so the national itself, I think since Joe Drelik and Jimmy Ryan got involved, I think it. It has really already improved a lot in a short amount of time. I can tell you. On the floor of the. Of the Fanatics Festival today, I felt old. There were. There were all of these. You know, I would be sitting. I hung out in the CGC booth for. For most of the time I was there today, and. And, you know, this. This entourage would walk by with, you know, cameras and. And just security people, and I would say, who's that? And then. And, you know, they would tell me some name that I've never heard of, and I would say, what. What do they do? And. Oh, they're an influencer. Oh, okay. All right. Okay. That's cool. I've never heard of that person. And. And so I felt, like, completely out of touch. When I go to the National. I feel young and. Yeah, so. So there is that difference too, you know. So. So. Yeah. But anyway, I know. You know. Josh, do you. Do you know. Have you met David Chase? I have not met David Chase other than watching him here on. On this channel. And. And so that doesn't count as met, I guess. But. But it's. It's. Well, I'm. I'm. Nice to meet you, Al. It's nice to meet you too, David. Thank you. Hello, everybody. Well, Josh, it's always good to see you. And. And, yeah. How are you? I'm doing okay. It's been. It's been a fun couple of weeks and. Yeah, you know. Why is that, Al? Why is that? Well, because of the national and. And, you know, the World cup and. And, you know, the All Star game. How about. Okay, now that we've. We've all gotten to know each other, let's talk a bit about the Wagner card that p. I want to ask you this. Are you or your consigner that, you know of offended that people are now calling it the Franken Wagner? Look, I. I think both of us. No, we're not offended. I. I think both of Us understand. And I think anybody who's been in the hobby for any length of time, if you presented with this card, you know that you are going to have a whole range of opinions, and. And some of them are going to be very strong negative opinions. Some of them are going to be very strong positive opinions. I think the best thing about this whole thing, other than the fact, you know, besides the fact that my company gets to sell a Wagner, which is really cool, I think that the best thing about this is that it brings this discussion of card restoration versus card alteration out into the open, which was what my consigner's goal was 30 years ago when he. When he had this card restored. And so I think it's. In that respect, it's really cool. And, you know, there's a lot of things that I think we can talk about today, but the thing that I'm hoping for is, is that I know everybody's got opinions, but I'm hoping that everybody can. Can approach this with an open mind tonight as. As we talk about it. Yeah, not only tonight. Oh, not only tonight. Right. Tonight. And all the way through the end of the auction, which does end on August 8th. That'll be the end date of the. About the weekend after the National. Now, you just used the word restored and altered. What about the words fabricated reconstructed art card? I am still not sure how to describe it. Like, when you think about the definitions of altered or restored, I don't. And you heard me say this last week on the show, I don't know that I. I actually know that I'm not comfortable with only those two words. I am comfortable with. With restore. I think it has been restored, but I think it's more than just restored. I think the only alteration happened when. When Honus was cut by the guy, Whoever cut him 100 years ago. I think that's the alteration. And now I think it's been restored with the backing of the Johnny Leach card. Johnny Leach, Tim. Sorry, Tommy. Yeah, that. Tom. The Tommy Leach. I have a reasonable amount. I mean, we've done so much digging on this card and we've done so much research, I think the Tommy Leach card is the most likely donor card. And there's a couple of reasons for that. The main one being Tommy Leach's silhouette. His portrait fits perfectly right inside the Wagner. If you had looked at any other of the possibilities, there's something that sticks out a little bit that the conservator would have had to work with on the background. Some of those cards with deep Orange backgrounds. They're full body shots. So there's an arm, like reaching up with a baseball in it, or there's a baseball bat or something like that that the conservator would have had to contend with when putting Wagner in there. The other reason why I think it's Tommy Leach is because if you. If you're a T206 person, you know that those were printed in various groups. And that sweet Caporal back that the Wagner comes with, Tommy Leach was also available with that back. And so I think it was a natural card. And then I personally. Obviously, I don't have access to the conservator, but I personally think that using a card with a subtly different background makes it clear nobody's ever going to mistake that for. Nobody's ever going to try and pass that card off as something that it's not. It's a restored Wagner. And I think that was part of the objective 30 years ago as well, was to not like, you know, we're trying to illustrate that the kind of things that can be done with paper and with cards, but we don't want to try and fool anybody. And I think that's where that definition of alteration and restoration, where they kind of butt up against each other and. Jeremy, I'll pose a hypothetical. It's not really even a hypothetical. It's just kind of an opinion. And I don't want to put thoughts in your head about why you feel the way you do about that word. Which word? Which word? Word? Restoration versus fabrication versus whatever. I think what we have in our hobby that's a little bit different from most other collectible hobbies is that restoration in other hobbies has always been out in the open. It's always been accepted. But for whatever reason, in our hobby, restoration has always been deceptive. It's been done to try and fool you into thinking that this card is in better condition than it is, so you. You pay more money for it. Now, are any of you guys car guys? Automobile guys? I put all my money into cards versus cars, but we can. We can still go down this road. Go ahead. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I learned about this. I'm not a car guy at all. So I may be using some terminology here. That's crazy. And sounds like, you know, maybe like, you know what you're talking about. Yeah, I don't, but. But, you know, obviously, as we were researching this whole thing and trying to figure out, like, how do you. How do you present this to the hobby in a transparent way. Right. I was looking at other collectible categories. Right. We know that comics get restored, movie posters get restored, furniture gets restored, you know, at every possible. Old manuscripts, old important historical documents, works of art, all of these things. You know, somebody makes it. I've seen the comment, you know, probably a hundred times over the past week. You know, you're not going to put arms on the Venus de Milo. You're not going to put arms on the Venus de Milo because when it was discovered, it had no arms. Nobody knows what position those arms were in. Were they holding something? Were they. Nobody knows. And there are thousands of statues that have had arms put on them. The Venus de Milo has had restoration done to her nose, her lips, her clothes, you know, but just didn't put arms on it because they didn't know what were her arms doing. We would be making something up that, that we don't, that we don't know. Anyway, so, so when we're talking about this issue of restoration, the one example that, that I got hit with that I think is the best parallel is the Ferrari 250. What is it? Ferrari 250 GTO. Okay. Which is one of the. Oh, if I click comments over here, do I have access to the comments? You do. But, but, but, but, but I don't want to read. Don't bother. No, no, it. Just let me be, just let me. Distracted is enough. Right? That's fine. So. So the Ferrari 250 GTO is considered like the Hannes Wagner of collector automobiles. Okay. There were 36 of them manufactured. They are tracked the way T206 scholars track Hannes Wagner's where people try and know, you know, what's the provenance of each one, where is each one, when were they sold? You know, if you go to t206resource.com they actually try and number them so they know where as many of them as possible are. They do the same thing with this Ferrari where they track them by chassis number. So I've the most valuable. There was a private transaction where one was sold in 2018 for $70 million. Okay, that's crazy money. Okay? But the one that, that I think is the best parallel is one that was built in 1962. And I don't remember the chassis number because why would I remember the chassis number? But it was built in 1962. It's one of eight Ferrari 250 GTOs that has the steering wheel on the right side of the car. Okay, so it's, it's Rare within rare. And it. It was. It appeared in a couple of different races. And then it was retired in 1962, and the owner donated it to a high school in Texas. And they used that car for. For shop class. So teaching students, teaching kids how to do engine work, how to do body work, how to, you know, do all of these kinds of things to cars that, you know, how to do basic automotive maintenance. The kids painted the car to the car red. They rode it around in parades. And then eventually, in the early 70s, they sent it off to auction, and some guy in Ohio bought it. They moved the car up to Ohio, and he drove it for a while and then had some engine trouble. And after it had the engine trouble, he put it in a field on his property outside, and it was subjected to the elements for 15 years. And during those 15 years, the body completely rotted. It got separated from the chassis. Some collector came, like, at this point, that car is considered. If it's a different car, it's considered, you know, let's junk it. We're gonna. It's. It's a useless thing. But some collector bought it in the early 80s, built a new body, gave it a brand new body. Okay. Then another collector bought it, found the old chassis. Reunite. Or found the old body, reunited it with the chassis, brought in all new aluminum, refabricated this. The whole sections of the car that the. Where the body rot was repaired. The engine with all vintage parts, but not the parts that came with the car. New wheels, new tires, new everything. Restored the paint back to its something. Something close to its original factory blue. The car is completely different than the car that came off the line. And it's considered one of the most famous cars of that issue. It's considered a restored car, and it's worth tens of millions of dollars. It's not worth $70 million. It's worth tens of millions of dollars because the collectors understand the work that was done on it and how much restoration was done on it. But nobody says that's not a Ferrari 250 GTO. So anyway, that's, I think, a great parallel to this card, which has obviously had a lot of work done with vintage parts. But it's beautiful, and it's got a great story. And, you know, that's kind of my position on the card. I completely understand. There are going to be people who just say, nah, that's, you know, that's not for me. And I've met a lot of people and spoken to a lot of people over the last week. Or so who have said this card is incredible. Guys, it's a really cool card. You know, no matter where you fall on the, on the, on the, on the spectrum of, of whether or not it's acceptable, it's a really cool card and it's beautiful and, and so I'm proud to have it in the auction and I'm, and I'm also really happy that unlike a lot of other cards it's being sold with full disclosure, full transparency. If you go look at my website, you know we're showing you the alteration, we're showing you before and after pictures, we're showing you information infrared of the, you know, of the card and so you can see where the, in painting is and, and all of it. You know, we're not trying to tell you you're buying something that you're different or that's. Yeah, no, I mean it's, yeah, it's, I think, I think your analogy is it gets your mind thinking and there's a lot like. Yeah, I'm just reading, I'm keeping on, I'm keeping track of a lot of the comments in the chat. There's a lot of closed minded people that there are and I, but I know and they, they have the right to be. You have the right to be closed minded. I'm not a closed minded person but, but, but we have many in the chat who are and, and they, you know, and it's, people are, people have their thoughts, they have their positions on things. You're not, you don't. You don't. You. As your auction company, your consigner, the hobby doesn't care what anyone who's not bidding thinks anyway. Really. It's not, they're not going to make a difference. It's. But, but I do want to go through some comments because there's some really good, there's some good stuff here. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the sports cards live community. Don't forget to like subscribe and most of all keep collecting more great content to come. Sports cars is a lifestyle.