Is SGC Grading Too Easily? Is That Bad? Will The New Leader Have Any Impact?

Welcome to extra innings on the sports card clubhouse with the hit list. That is Matt from Providence. How you doing? That's Jake T. O' Donnell from Wax Pack Wisdom. Thank you. Wow. There you go. Got it. Right. So we, we met, we were off last week. We're back this week. Before we get into the topic we want to talk about, we announced on the hit list this week Matt will be setting up for a day at the national big opportunity. He was going to be there, he's going to be set up on Sunday so come look for him. I guess we'll, we'll figure out what the table number is. I don't, not sure. I just texted you at 50019. 50019. Okay, I missed that. 50019. So check out Matt on, on Sunday. He will be, but he'll be around the rest of the show and I'll be around the rest of the show too. Of course Sunday is the one day that I'm not going to be at the show. Crazy. That's crazy. It's a bummer. But that is how it goes. More immediately, Matt will be set up at a booth at Fanatics Fest in New York City. So the two biggest card shows in the country. Matt will have a presence at both shows. Amazing. The world. The world in the. Really honestly, the world, yes. So you will be. That's at the Javit center in, in, I guess it's in Manhattan. Right. You'll be at booth 4:40 and you're going to be there all weekend. You're leaving, you're trucking out very early before the sun comes up on Thursday. Correct. So yeah, so I'm leaving at 3am Wednesday night, Thursday morning, driving into Manhattan, going straight to the convention center. Right, to the Javits center, getting set up. Show starts at 9. Yeah, that's it. It's gonna be an experience. Yeah. So I'm getting there. The plan is to get there for 6:30 and they have. So they, I got the, I got the email today. They have assisted labor. They unload the truck for you. Unload the stuff for you. I don't know if they got hand cards. I got my own hand card, but yeah, yeah, pretty cool. So 6:30 I gotta start setting up the table for the show at 9. Yeah, it's gonna be a long day. Did you see the hours? Did I send you that? I don't think he did, no. Each Show it's like 9 to 7, 9 to 8, 9 to 8, 9 to 6. My father. Oh God. The complaint. He's gonna do. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. But that was a. Long days, buddy. Those are long days. I believe you. And then the last thing is that we are going to be doing the Hit List live on Hobby Palooza. I'm not sure what day this is going to post, but our. We're. Do we have an hour Saturday on the four Collectors Channel to Ben for Hobby Palooza. We're gonna do the Hit List live. Matt's gonna join from. From. From the Javit side. I think. I think we go viral. I think we go viral. I think we will, too, for a lot of different. I really do. I think. I think we go. I think it's gonna be like that UFC fight, the first. The first one with Conor McGregor, not Conor Mc Forest Griffin and Stefan Bonar. That was the final episode of the first show. The, the, the, the. The. The. The. The ratings as the. As the fight went on, literally went up by hundreds of thousands of people every few minutes. That's wild. It's crazy story, but that's gonna be us, but like 12 people and then like six people, you know, but yeah, no, it's gonna be like that, but yeah, yeah. So. So check that. Check that out for us on Saturday. All right, so let's talk about. Let's talk about sgc. So at the end of the hit list, I showed cards from my most recent SGC order that we guessed the grades months ago when I sent them in and saw how close we were. For the most part, we were pretty close. In fact, I think in most instances, I did better than we guessed, usually by a half grade, a half grade, and even a full grade in some. Some instances. So that led into this discussion. So since we, you know, last couple weeks, there's been. It was a big. There's a really significant piece of news about sgc, which is that they have added a public face again. And that public face again is the brother of SGC Pete. It's SGC Jesse. I guess they're keeping it in the family. So he worked there and then he went to PSA in Florida. So he went down the hall. Right. And now he's back over there. Now he's back. Interesting. We'll see what happens. Yeah, and I'm concerned about the statement. The statement. They said all the right things in the statement. And you know, you can only take that. You only take that basically saying. And I pulled it up just to read it. Like, we heard the feedback on turnaround times and the desire for more comprehensive operational updates. SGC's taking. I can't believe they list. Yeah, you want your cards faster and cheaper. We're taking immediate steps to improve customer transparency and operational efficiency and look forward to rolling those. Okay, so it's just a bunch of corporate speak, but. But it is interesting because it's. Yeah, they. PSA collectors did this to sgc. SGC was fant. Was a fantastic operation. They would occasionally get backed up. They would tell, they would tell you, hey, we're backed up, we're gonna, but we're gonna work to try to get the, the turnaround times back down. And they all, they pretty much always did that. Last year it went from 5 to 10 to 15 to 20. And then when they were in that 15 to 20 range, that's when Pete was. Pete left. I think it was, it had been decided well in advance when he was going to leave. That's my guess. That's kind of also my understanding from what I've heard other people that know more about this stuff say. And then since then it's just been like, what are you doing? So like my SGC order, this one that came back, I was quoted, like everybody's been quoted since the beat, since near the beginning of this year that it was going to take 40 to 50 business days to get my cart, to get my cards graded. At least the, the time it shows up to the time it gets graded mine, it was like closer to 75 days. 75 business days. And basically three months, a little over three months door to door crazy. And so, so now, so now I think it's. I will say the one thing I think is definitely positive is like they've, they've given somebody the job of like, you're in charge of this. That's better than the alternative. That's better than it being like this sort of rudderless thing. And they, and they didn't put some Nat Turner lackey in there. They put in somebody that knows the business, which I think is good too. Yeah. But other than that, I have my guard up about a lot of this stuff. But what's your, what's your thought? Yeah, no, I mean, I'm glad it's his brother. You know, somebody that's been around. You know, he hasn't come out and said anything. He hasn't done that real or anything. So like I'm interested about that. Like, I think that's the, that's what we liked about Pete. Right. Obviously he did a great job, but you know, he would own stuff. And then like you had the guy Brett, who would answer emails in 10 minutes. And, you know, so until we see stuff like that again, what's the difference? I agree. Your grades, Your grades, they concerned me. Why? Because they just seem a little light. They seem. They seem. They. They seem a little too. Too good. Too good. Well, that's what I'm saying. That's what I was trying to say is I said to you, they got a bccg, this thing. Like, are they gonna lighten up on the grading? So is the boutique. So, like, for instance, is a one, is a one and a half now a two or two and a half? Or is it one and a half or two? Is it two and a half or three? Is it. You know, I thought they were a little. They gave her a little favorable to you on those. And I thought they were favorable on my TU 206 order that I had said I thought I was. That they were very favorable in my way. So I'm a little concerned. I don't want them to do that. Not that they're going to say a card with a crease is an eight. That's not what I'm saying. I know BCCG was crazy with that stuff. I know that. You know, but. And Beckett's talked about that publicly. Dr. Beckett, I was just going to bring that up so, you know, we understand it, but I don't want to go into it because I don't want to give him the time of day, but fair enough. Yeah. So I just don't. I don't want them to lighten up the gun. The grades. I'm not saying they have to be so tough as the psa. You could be a little. You'll be half graded or lighter than psa, but don't be a full. Don't be a full number grade. I don't like that. I don't like that one bit. I think that there was one difference between a PSA 1 and a half and an SGC 1 and a half. There's a real difference in those low numbers. And if you start telling me they're going to come back two and a halfs or twos. That's a real problem. Why. So I. I want you to expand on this. Why is it a problem? Excuse me. Because SGC's got a lot of credit in the hobby and they're really trusted, particularly with the old stuff. With the old, old stuff. You can't be giving out these soft grades now. People are sending serious cards in there. You know, we send serious Tobacco. Serious caramel in there, you know, Gowdy. So you can't be giving out soft grades. So everybody wants their cards to grade better when you send cards in. That's. That's the whole goal. I want my cards to be accurately graded, okay? Because they go. But that goes both ways. I don't want you to undergrade it. I don't want you to over grade it. Just accurately grade it, because so are you. Here's what I. Here's what I think I'm getting from you as somebody that is a dealer. You have customers who are. They collect vintage. Okay, well, let me. Let me just get this up. So I. Are you concerned that basically, like, the people that buy the kind of cards that you would send to SGC to get graded, that they are very savvy as buyers, and they will look at a card that's an SGC two and a half, and they will. They will look at it and tell you that card should be a. That. If that. You sent that to psa, That's a one and a half. Is that. Is that what. That's what you're afraid of? Maybe not in so many words. That's already happened, Jake. We're already there, so I just don't want it to get worse. We're already there. We're all. I could pull examples out of my PC right here. The box right here. That just. We're already about there. I'm not sure it's a full number grade, but, I mean, it's. It might be like, 75%. Like, it's. It's a big jump. It's a big jump. So I don't want them to soften up anymore. That's no good. Because of the respect they've earned over the years. Don't. Don't soften up on grading now. Like, so maybe this is one area we're having, like, somebody who's been at. Who was at sgc. Okay. Okay, fine. It might be better off. They might be better off. I just wore. That boutique thing is coming back now. And as you saw, if you soften up on grades, that really boutiques it, right? Because that's what BCCG was basically. They were just. People wanted an option to have nice grades on cards that weren't so nice. They just. They wanted things to make themselves feel good, and so that's why they went in that direction. Don't do that with sgc, please. Don't really. Don't ruin this company either. Close it. Don't do that. It closes because you're going to ruin how people look at cards and it's. That's no good. That's no good. You know. Fair, fair point. I don't want this to be, you know, Gai or gmo. No. But I just don't want like, oh, that's a worthless. In 10 years. I don't want people to hear. I don't want it to hear. Then they're no more than they. I don't want that. That's no good. Because this is a real serious company with serious cards. You know, you make. Those are. You make great points all across the board. I think that, yeah, the last thing that we want as, as vintage collectors especially that that will have relied on SGC and buy a lot of SGC cars and have a lot of value tied up in SGC cards don't do anything that's going to dilute the value of the cars if it goes out of business. That's one thing. The value. Dilute the, dilute the accuracy. Like I really care. I know people know how you're full of it. You want your cards to grade well, but think about how aggravated you get when you get a card. Undergraded. Yeah. Overgraded. Undergrad. Undergrade. Undergrade. Yeah. You think it's going to be a four, comes back at two and a half, you're ready to kill somebody. You know, so I consist especially when it's a consistency error. Do you know what I mean? I. I need you really, really just be consistent. Right where they are is fine. They're a little tougher. I'd be fine too. I love where PSA grades right now. I'm no PSA lover, but I love the harshness that they're grading and the consistently consistency that we're finding now. So you think, so you think that PSA has gotten the third grades at least for like if you see a newer label PSA like for on a vintage card, you feel like for the most part they're, they're right on it. Like you see a card that starts 14s, 15s, 16s, I think they're into now like in terms of like the beginning of the circuit. Yeah, you feel like they're doing a better job. It's the sixes start with six. Yeah, yeah. After you get, you get past the five. Fours and fives are no good. Beginning with fours and fives are no good. With the newer label you got to get to six and then you're good after that. Now we're into the teens. But yeah, that There's a big difference, buddy. There's a huge difference. Huge, huge difference. Yeah, I love the consistency. I love the harshness because I collect low grade examples of cards. You get some beautiful cards now that are twos. I mean, just beautiful, beautiful cards. Yeah. So. Particularly pre war. So. Yeah, no, just be consistent and don't, don't really don't. Don't move the goalposts. Yeah, you know, we don't. You remember when Nat Turner came out and said, no, I feel like what we've done is we're following our guidelines more. Yes, I think that was an accurate statement. The turnaround time sucked, the pricing sucks. All of it sucks. Customer service, all that sucks. All that sucks. But that statement he made and what has come to follow, fantastic. But what if they accuracy of great upgrading the guidelines. But the other thing, the, the one thing I'll caveat on that is that over the course of, you know, whatever time, they did change how they grade cards in terms of. They. They did, remember? They changed. You got to talk about the tens. You're gonna. Who cares? We don't collect tens. Okay, but I'm, but that's, but we're talking about the same company. This is what they did. They, they undercover, under darkness of night. They didn't, they didn't tell anybody they did this. People had to go online, you know, discovered it. You're not wrong that they changed the standards for the centering. But I agree with you because. Because that, that matters the most when it comes to the difference between a 9 and a 10. And we don't collect nines and 10 intense. But, but, but it's still them doing something that was shady and underhanded that changed the grading, the way that, the way that they grade. I don't know that it was shady. Listen, before you submitted your card, it was in the fine print. Just because you didn't read the fine print. They didn't make it a public statement. But it was public knowledge. If you wanted to go get it, it was there, it was available. They didn't make this grand statement. I, I don't think it was that big of a deal. But I don't collect nines and tens, so. All right, we made it to 15 minutes. And you're sick and you're poor. But yeah, you're poor. You're poor and you're fair and you're. You're very good and whatever. All right, thanks everybody for listening. We gotta run. We gotta hard out here. So. Fanatics Fest. Fanatics fest this weekend National 500-19-50019 all right, Matt, what do we say? Like, comment, subscribe, collect.