The WNBA Card Podcast: Building Around Paige Bueckers and the Dallas Wings with Jason (@notjasondardick)

Foreign. Welcome back to the WNBA Card Podcast here on the Stacking Slabs Network, hosted by my good friend Caitlin at Cold Lunch Cards and sponsored by our good friends at Card Ladder, the official data provider of the WNBA Card Podcast and the broader Stacking Slabs Network. Who is enjoying some WNBA basketball right now? I know I am. It is theater almost each and every night. We're almost at All Star, which is absolutely insane. I hope you are enjoying the league as much as I am. And today Caitlin is spotlighting a collector who collects a team with the biggest turnaround here this season, and that is the Dallas Wings. Fun conversation with Jason. He goes by not Jason Dardick on Instagram and Jason Dardick on Twitter and skeleton cards on whatnot. Awesome collector. Awesome PC. This is a fun conversation. Caitlin is back in the saddle covering team collectors here in the WNBA card space. If you want to show your support for the WNBA Card Podcast, make sure you're following us. WNBA Card Pod on Instagram. If you want to show your support for the broader Stacking Slabs Network, hit the follow button. Tell a damn friend. Run on over to the Patreon Group. It's Jason. If you're It's Caitlyn Talking Dallas Wings Cards. Let's get into it. Welcome back, loyal listeners, the Stacking Slabs Podcast to season five, Episode seven of the WNBA Card Podcast. My name is Caitlyn. I go by at Cold Lunch Cards, mostly on the Instagram machine, but I'm also on Twitter, I'm on Discord. I'm on a couple other corners of the Internet as well. But today I am super excited for today's episode. I've been in and out week. I usually try to do one of these once a week, but I've been busy. I've been sick. A lot of people are busy in the. In the summertime, so I'm super thankful to today's guest for making time out of his day to come onto the podcast. We're going to be talking all about the Dallas Wings franchise, the greater WNBA card scene with none other than the man, the myth, the legend Jason. He goes by not Jason Dardick on Instagram. And. And we've known each other now for a while, but this is actually the first time that we're speaking face to face, even if it's virtually face to face. And I'm excited to get into today's episode. So, Jason, maybe for listeners that don't know who you are, could you give them a little intro into who's Jason and maybe why he's on the WNBA Card podcast today. Yeah, sure. First of all, a lot of people are busy during the summer and I am not one of them. So I was very happy to get the invite and to give me something to do this weekend. So thank you for having me. First of all, very excited to be here. But yeah, I'm just somebody that's been collecting WNBA kind of pre kin Clark and I think that's how Kayin and I met was just being both terminally online and in involved with the WNBA collecting space. And that's, you know, you know, I guess that's how we met. But as somebody, you know, as myself, just being a collector that was online as I guess would be how people know me and. But yeah, just a card collector for a long time now and somebody that has been full time cards for almost a decade and you know, kind of my life is cards and as of the last three or four years, a lot of that is focused on the wnba. Awesome. Cards are life. I agree with that statement, as always. No, you said life is cards, but same the Cards are live. Live is cards 100. We're going to get, yeah, we're going to get into kind of your origins of collecting. We're going to get into the hopefully a little bit of the business side, what you're doing in cards and then we're going to talk all about your, I don't know, your Dallas Wings fandom or at least collecting fandom. So let's start kind of at the beginning when I was doing my research of the Dallas Wings franchise. Kind of the through line that I saw with this franchise is that it has a lot of different, I don't know, origins. It started in Detroit, moved to Tulsa and now it's today known as the Dallas Wings. It won three championships in Detroit, in Tulsa it didn't do much. I still think the concept of having a team in Tulsa is interesting. I don't. Yeah. Why? Like, I no hate to any listeners that are in Tulsa, just not a city that I'd associate with wanting or a WNBA team. So now taking off kind of a little bit more. In Dallas, they've struggled to find the same heights that they did in Detroit, but they're led by this kind of new renaissance of the like of Paige Becker's Az Fudd and apparently Jessica shepherd down there. Yeah, exactly. So they've got, you know, a few players down there that are looking to change the tides. But I kind of want to ask you, Jason, kind of take me back to the beginning of your Wings fandom. When when did you become a Wings fan? Was it in their Dallas days? Sometime before? What's. What's the origin story? Definitely in the Dallas days. I have no affiliation to Detroit or COLA whatsoever. And. And to be honest, like, I was a huge Dallas Mavericks fan for the longest time. I had season tickets to the Mavs for the later years of Dirk and the early years of Luca, and I was not a go to WNBA games guy. Like, I enjoyed the Cards from a value RIP perspective. Right. And that's kind of what got me into the wnba, was truly ripping, you know, ripping wax and being able to buy affordable boxes of Prism versus the NBA, you know, which were 10 times more expensive at the time, but really the last. This is my first year with season tickets to the Wings game, so I've been at a ton of games last year, watched a bunch of games with the arrival of Cage, but really, like, I would say three or four years, you know, they've been on my radar and in the last couple seasons that have been a. A really big fan. Yeah, for sure. I think it's always interesting in the card space to hear about people coming to fandom from different angles. And what I mean by that is some people collect cards because they're fans of teams. Other people, like you are now fans of a team because of the card collecting. It's like the inverse. And I find that relationship super interesting. So I guess, kind of when we think about the start of Jason's Dallas Wing fandom, what. What players come to mind? What era comes to mind? When did this start? Was it. Was it Paige or was it a little bit before? It would be a little bit before, Right. So again, like, 2020 is the first year WNBA Prism. That was a product that was big in the hobby at the time, right. Which. That was like before Caitlyn. That was the most expensive WNBA product for a long time. Right. So didn't rip a ton of 2020. Familiar with the cards, but really 2021, 2022 were the affordable Prism hobby boxes. Right. And that was the beginning of my WNBA fandom, was like, hey, I can get a lot of this product. As somebody who opens an enormous amount of wax, like, this is, you know, my. Is a good value rip. Like, I can sell these cards. There's enough collectors out there, and I'm not breaking the bank, you know, opening a box of these, right? Yeah. And so I really got familiar with the league and the players as well as, you know, I was familiar with Prism, but the WNBA side of it, in those two you know, 2021, 2022 product years. And like, you know, who's a rookie, what teams are, you know, the. The good players on things like that, who sells. And, and it really, again, like you said, came from, you know, my fandom came from opening cards versus, you know, the inverse, like you said, which is, you know, being a fan of the players and trying to get their cards right. Yeah. And so I did collect a lot of the Dallas Wings from 21 and 22. Just being in Dallas, AR stuck, you know, AR stuck out to me. Satu stuck out to me while she was still here. But really, when Paige got drafted, that was the catalyst. Right. Like this I was like, okay, we've got a serious name, a serious player. I'm going all in. Right. And so that's my. This is my W team for sure. As you know, prior to that was probably just player, more player focused, but big time Wings fan. Now. I love that I look at some of those recent years of Wings rosters and. And if you had the players that they had at their peak, like I'm just thinking like Alicia Gray, you know, like just players like that that have come through the franchise, not necessarily won a ton, but have found success later on. It feels like the franchise is finally kind of hitting their stride. Like you said with Paige before, we kind of get a little bit more into Wings. You mentioned that before collecting Wings cards, you were also collecting other players maybe from that 2021 or 2022 classes. Are there other players that you PC outside of the Dallas Wings organization? Yeah, definitely. I think more. I'm still a fan of a lot of players in the league. Right. So PC is a strong word or strong term that gets thrown around a lot. I do sell cards. You know what I mean? Yeah. But I do buy non Dallas Wings a lot. Yeah, yeah. I'm. I'm just anybody that I'm a fan of. Right. Ryan Howard sticks out to me as a big one. She's with the Atlanta Dream. But again, in those 2022 prison boxes, that was the, that was the chase. Right. And so maybe 21, I remember, but no, 22 for sure. You know, from there I've got a. I've got Rekia Jackson. Right. I've got Anissa Mora. I just bought a nice card of more about the cards than the player. But I definitely am a big, big fan of a lot of the players. Yeah, I feel like when I. I kind of like came up with this term, I don't know if I was the first person to come up with it? Probably not, but I came up with this term or this concept of a one card player PC, which is that you only need one card and it's still like a personal collection. It's still significant. You don't have to have a bunch of volume. And when I think of your collection and like the cards that you amass, some of these cards are like cornerstones of a particular player PC or person's player PC. I'm just thinking about like the type of cards you like to collect for people that maybe don't see them because you don't post them on your Instagram too much is like logo women, gold vinyls, black finites, like these big, I don't know, cornerstone cards. Are you like, when you're thinking about, you said you don't PC but you're like buying cards. Are you doing that on purpose or is it just the fact that these are the ones that, you know, they show up and you find the most interest in them? No, they're, they definitely don't just show up. I did a lot of digging for them, but yeah, that's something I try. Like, I guess my philosophy behind that is if I'm gonna own a player's card and hold on to it, I want it to be the best card I can get. Right. So, yeah, I think a cornerstone, right. I, I totally love the one card player PC, right. I've got a lot of that where, yeah, you know, Courtney Vander Sloot, I have no affiliation to. I think she's a very good player and one of the all time greats, right? But I, I won't sell her logo, man. Right. Because like that's, that's the one car that I have of her that like is in my PC, right? Dana Bonner, same way I just passed on in the Dwana Bonner that was offered to me. And I, because I already have one, I was like, listen, like, if there's another Bonner collector out there, like, go for it, you know? Yeah, I've got one and I'm good. Like, I don't need to, you know, start a Bonner Mega collection. Right? But yeah, I think definitely intentional with stuff that I want to hold on to. I'd like it to be, you know, a top three card kind of consensus across their, you know, across the hobby. And I don't buy cards for what other people think about them. Right. I genuinely like, you know, the logo, the patch autos, or like, you know, the one of one prism. It relates not only to w. Collectors But I think people that understand cards and just, you know, having stuff on display that is rare and cool and fun, you know. Yeah, for sure. It feels like as somebody who, I don't know, you're, you're selling a lot of cards, you're buying a lot of cards. The bigger tent you can create by just like we talk a lot about how, you know, Prism and these products that are coming out in the WNBA now are much easier for people to kind of translate into from NBA or NFL or similar lanes because of the familiarity aspect. And I think there's no denying that when you see a origins WNBA patch and it has that logo woman on there, anybody understands that that's probably a top three card of that particular player. And so I completely understand what you're trying to, trying to say with that and what you're trying to do with it. But I feel like for me that's something that's super hard to accomplish. Not only are they hard to track down, but they take a lot of capital. They take a lot of time, effort and money to source. Was this something that has been on kind of like this approach of collecting the best of the best. Has that been how it's always been for you in WNBA collecting? Or is it something that, you know, you had to work at to kind of upgrade to that or is this kind of just how it's been for you? No, it's definitely something that I've worked on and I want to clarify like that's. These aren't the only cards that I. Right, right. These are the cards that I buy with like the intention of holding on to, right? The ones that like, hey, they're for sale but like you're gonna have to get to my number for it to move. Right? Like I'm not just gonna auction these cards. That being said, I buy a ton of stuff that I like. Just, I like the look of the card. I don't get sub ten dollar stuff. I've got boxes and boxes of. And if you've ever been in one of my whatnot streams, you understand, like there's so much stuff just everywhere that like, you know, I, I try to keep it, you know, I have fun cards right like that. If I, you know, lose money on whatever, who cares? It's the lower end stuff. But then I, you know, for this, the, the true PC or like, you know, cornerstone type stuff, it's very thought out and, and like in any aspect, right, Like I guess our industry, you're gonna, you're gonna pay up for like the best stuff in theory, that stuff as I believe in the WNBA growing and like more eyes and, you know, viewers towards the wnba, more collectors getting into wnba, I think that stuff grows with it. And so whether you're buying, you know, rookies for five bucks or. Or logo patch autos for 5k, it's like, you know, that stuff is going to inherently grow with the, you know, the growth of the wnba. So very rarely am I extending myself, right. For cards, I think everything's done within, you know, a budget or, you know, I, you know, if, if somebody offers me one and they're way above price, like I have no. Or what I think it's worth, right. I think I, I have no problem passing on it. You don't want to over overextend. Right? But I do like to have those cards just because I, I think again, kind of they're the best cards. They appeal to people who are outside of just the WNBA NBA logo. Men are like, they're bananas, right? Like the prices are out of control. And so I would actually argue that the logo, the WNBA logos are have a ton of room to grow and are massively undervalued compared to like the, the NBA counterpart. And so that kind of played along into it a little bit at the beginning, but now it's more of a. This is what I collect and, and I like having them. I think they look great. And so I'm, I'm after those first and foremost. But again, if they're not tenable, right, like, I'll find another car of that player that is exciting and cool and, you know, that's basically my philosophy. You know, I do have a lot that I buy just with the intention of grading and selling as well, but these ones are, are not, you know, not the case there for sure. We'll get more into that grading part because I find it. It's something that I have absolutely no knowledge of. I think I've submitted like two submissions to PSA in my life, but we'll get into that more. But I guess I'm. I'm a little curious about just like a little bit more into the Wings fandom and then we can drill down there. So I asked this question to every guest that I've had on so far this season, and it's that if you had to describe the fandom or the identity of the Wings franchise in three words or less, one, could you do it? And two, if you could, what would you choose? That's a great question. I would say tough. They're They've come from behind in a ton of games this year. This season, it. They were not good for a long time, and they've kind of gotten over the hump here recently. And so I'd say tough, like, it's. It's got to not be fun to, like, lose a bunch of games for a decade, right? Yeah. From my experience of going to the games and kind of being around the team more this season, I'd say that it's a very friendly fan base, really, and that lends itself to being in Texas, I think, kind of Southern hospitality. But everybody's in such a good mood at the games, and everybody's so nice, and it's such a blast. So I'll definitely be renewing and getting season tickets going forward. So, yeah, tough but friendly would be my answer, and if I had to pick a third word, I don't. I'm not sure that I could. But tough and friendly would be my. Would be my answer, I think. I think tough but friendly is three words, so you got it. You got it right there. Okay. I like that. I like that choice. And I, I, I wanted to backtrack because I just find it so interesting, you know, when we're talking about fandom and cards, the way that cards kind of speak a language and the way that they build identities around them. When I talk to certain people of different brand bases, they say words that are completely different. And so whenever I hear that about the Dallas swings, I think that makes sense. I feel like it's a very inviting franchise. I've always felt like there are certain franchises that feel closed off. It's like, if you weren't here before XYZ moment, we don't want you here, or something like that. Dallas feels like anybody can hop on the Dallas Wings train at any moment. Yeah, we want you. Like, come on, it's. This is our time, bro. Let's do it. Yeah. I would say I'm an honorary Dallas Wings fan just because of Paige's Minnesota, kind of, like, roots. She gets a lot of love here. People. People really like her. I think she is one of the most, like, liked players I've ever seen across sports, genuinely. So you're lucky to have her. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and she's a. She's so good. It's crazy. Like, Like, I. I was aware of her game and knew a bunch about her in college. Right. Both from a card perspective and, like, hey, I'm, you know, paying attention to women's basketball. But when she's here, you watch her in person. It's. It's so clear who the best player on the court is all the time. Yeah. Playing. It's, it's. She's. She's an unbelievable talent. I completely agree. And a word that you just said reminded me of a question that I wanted to ask you, which is that you said, paying attention to women's basketball. I feel like we've known each other now a couple years, and you've been paying attention to women's basketball for a long time, and you were buying big women's basketball cards kind of before a lot of the quote unquote market, if we want to call it that, was looking at them, paying them respect, at least in terms of market value. What was kind of the perception of picking up these bigger kind of like cornerstone cards, as I've kind of called them today? What was the perception of, like, that before Caitlyn Clark kind of entered the. The league for you? Because I feel like it didn't always used to be like, oh, sweet, nice WNBA card. Like, it. It didn't always used to be like that. Has it changed? What was it like? Like, it's still not for me. For a lot of, you know, for a lot of the car. Like, a lot of people still just are like, if it's not kin, it doesn't make sense. Right. Which is ridiculous. But I think prior to Caitlin even existing in the WNBA space, it was an afterthought for virtually everyone. Right? And, and which was great. Like, I, again, can't stress enough. Like in 2020, like through 2022, 23, opening 50 cases of Prism, right. For a fraction of what I would have cost me to do. NDA. And so you imagine you open, you know, at that volume, you're going to hit some awesome stuff. Right? And so I, you know, just knowing cards, you know, keeping the gold, keeping the one on ones, like, keeping the good stuff was tenable because I, you know, you're getting all these autos, it's $100 a box. Like, I can sell everything else to recoup my costs and still hold on to a lot of this really good stuff. Yeah, really worked out in my favor. It wasn't like a. I tell people this all the time. They act like I, you know, I was forecasting this explosion in WNBA growth and like, oh, you knew Caitlin was coming and you're gonna make all this money? I was like, not at all, dude. Like, I got very lucky. And I'm thankful that, like, Kaylin, you know, came into the league and brought More eyes on the cards. But at the same time, like I can't even touch a box of prison. Literally it's a thousand dollars a box and prior to her it was a thousand dollars for the case. So like, it just, it doesn't make sense to rip for me anymore. I haven't ripped WNBA in quite a while, but it's one of those where I, you know, my fandom has grown even though I, you know, don't still actively like open open the cards and I'm buying singles and I'm, I'm actually watching the games versus wax to open wax. But yeah, it was an afterthought for a lot of people, I think. Just that didn't understand but. Or, or that weren't fans of the wnba. Right. But I think explaining it to card people, I used to tell just kind of what I said here was like, hey, I this box for $100 get two autos and 20 numbered cards like a box of prism. And you know, it's going to cost me a hundred bucks versus if I open NBA, it's going to be 850, right? Yeah. And I'm going to get smoked on the W on the NBA and I'm going to, you know, at least break even on the, on the wnba, if not make some money. So like, I'm going to stick with this versus, oh, I'm going to, you know, gamble on the NBA side of it and get crushed. Yeah, it was more of a longevity play. Right. Like this is sustainable ripping. At some point, I think that, like when I think about why people sometimes used to look over WNBA beforehand before. And when I say beforehand, I mean like before Caitlin Clark, before Paige Beckers, I think so much of it. I get upset when I think about it, like, you know, I'm like, oh, why don't these people get it? Why are they, you know, looking down on my WNBA cards? Why don't they want to look at when I offer them at the table at a show? Why are they like, oh, I don't really, I don't know anything about wnba. But I think like it all boils down to one simple reason. And I think it's just that people like lack the visibility and the accessibility to knowing about it. That means that people aren't going to talk. Like at shows people weren't talking about wnba. You weren't able to just turn on the TV and watch wnba. It's not like this secret that people were keeping or like that people disliked it. I think that it was just this. I Don't know equation of you don't put eyes and money on the league, it's not going to result in, or at least like tangibly result itself into the, into the hobby. And so I always like hearing about people that kind of were braving that storm pre Caitlin Clark of like, I exist in this space and I'm going to put real money at it, or at least relative real money at the time and effort in time. And it. It paid dividends times a thousand. So I think it's interesting to hear about kind of that growth and the perception changing because while we still have a long ways to go, it's still a niche part of the hobby. It's insanely grown over the past couple years. Yeah. And. And the, the flip side of that, and I don't want to sound like a Caitlyn Clark hater, that's not me at all. The big. I am a big Caitlyn fan, just for the record. Right. But now you, now you kind of get the inverse where people come up and, and it's again, it's still, it's Kaylin or nothing. Yeah. And they, like, can't wrap their head around that. There's, like other players in the le. Right. And it's like, well, yeah, there are. Yeah. And in the, in the same breath, I think it's great that she's brought a bunch of eyes to the league for people who are open minded to be like, oh, damn, like, there are some serious. They're like these, like a lot of these players are very good. Right. I agree. I think it's almost like history repeating itself again. It's like we're like, oh, pre Caitlin Clark, there were all these deals to be had in rittenhouse or in 2020 prism or whatever, but then, you know, we didn't figure it out till Caitlin came and it's like we're doing the same thing again, except now she's here, like, the same thing is happening. So this, this entire lane just screams opportunity to me. And opportunity is a word that I kind of grounded on when I was planning for today's episode because you capitalize on opportunity in the hobby in an interesting way, which is through grading. And so I kind of want to get into what. Grading? What, what. What do you do with grading? What is that? What are you doing? Like, what's the strategy and where it started and where you are today? Yeah, it's a good question. It's been a long journey in cards for me with grading and not to get too deep into It But I'd say pre grading is what I'm best known for. Right. So I was with a company that still exists, the me and another guy, Bradley is his name, Bradley Crenshaw, a big hobby guy, started DCI kind of during the pandemic that was a, you know, a pre grading service when PSA was shut down that we were looking at a ton of cards kind of assigning them a grade that was like, hey, like this card's a 9, like this card's a 10, like you should send these off or hey, this card's a six, like don't, don't even try. Right? And what that was is a quick raw review and kind of a, an expert opinion, if you will, on a card's condition before you could, you know, then go send it off to a grading company or flip it raw at a show. We set up the shows all across the country and did this. It was very successful. It's a service you kind of see more and more of now just kind of across the board, like every show. I'm no longer with dci. I kind of took some time off to go work at a shop locally and, and we, I was handling all of their PSA submissions at the time and so went from pre grading into the actual grading and of like data entry and like physically handling cards before they go to psa. Now I work. I started another company with a guy named Jonathan. It's called the Card Spa. If you can check us out on Instagram. Little shameless self promotion, but you want to. We do the same thing. So it's, it's prep for grading, it's raw card review and then it's also a group submission for psa. So if you're not going to hit the minimum of 50 cards for value bulk, like you can send the card to us, we'll throw it in our order for you and handle kind of the whole PSA process. And so very versed on the, the PSA grading world and, and kind of pre grading cards. But I think that is a great way. I tell people this all the time. If you're buying the right stuff at the right time, you never have to grade anything to make money. Grading will help you maximize the value. If you've got the right stuff at the right time, it's a great thing to do. It's not for everybody, it's not a requirement by any means, but it can definitely help you maximize the value of your collection. Have you used grading? Only in the buying and selling aspect of the Collecting world of yours or have you, have you found. Do you collect like graded cards exclusively? I guess, like, I'm trying to get at if your sense of the hobby world has been impacted by kind of having grading front and center for you. I am. So it really, it really depends on the card for me. Right. A lot of it's very card dependent. A lot of the stuff that I'm buying, it doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter, which is awesome. I'm very thankful for that. But at the same time, like, I will send things and I know you give me a hard time about this, but like, I'll send cards for like an authentic grade just to like have them in a holder that looks uniform with all the stuff that I do collect that is great numerically. And so that's a little more on like the OCD side of things where like, I want everything to look the same when I put it on display. But it's not a, again, not a great. It's not a requirement by any means. It's just a personal preference. But I do buy a lot more raw cards than I do graded, with exceptions. You know, there are cards that are low pop in a, in a PSA 10. Like, there's just not a lot of 10 out there. I try not to take like too much stock in that as I say this, but I would, I would much rather be a, a numbered card. Like a card that there's only 10 or you know, 10 cards made a rare card to begin with versus a card that's scarce in a PSA 10. Yeah. With unlimited copies. Right. So true rarity will always beat scarcity. But then if a card is scarce in a high grade, like that's something I'd consider as well as far as like buying for value. Right. Yeah. I think in like an idea or a concept I've been thinking a lot about in the hobby lately is this idea of manufactured scarcity, which is, you know, could. You could say that's what grading does. Is it. Is it meant. Yeah. Okay, so you agree with that, that it manufactures the concept of scarcity to differentiate between cards that maybe are a little bit more difficult to look for. The lack of serial numbering, the lack of transparency from manufacturers on print runs, those types of things. And I think that I see it, I think we all see it front and center in vintage card. In the vintage card market of like, you know, this is a really low pop and whatever grade. And then it goes even further into eye appeal and those types of things. I Think we've kind of disappeared a little bit from that in terms of the ultra modern market because of the pro proliferation of parallels and print runs and everything kind of being a case hit or having some sort of label on it already that you don't need this extra one. But I do want to ask is when, When I think of a lot of cards that you have, they are in those PSA Authentic slabs, which for the record here, I don't, I'm not like a hater of PSA Authentic, but Jason had a. The fee optic gold that I bought from him which is like the best card in my collection and he got it authentic, like a PSA Authentic. So that's what I got. And I just remember thinking to myself, I wish this was like a seven or an eight. And then I was like, wait, do I wish it was a 7 or 8? Like I'm kind of a little. I get it. But is it just the uniformity for you or do you think that these like taking an authentic approach is something that maybe the hobby underappreciates or undervalues in some way? Again, I think it's card dependent, right. Like I'll buy stuff now that I send for number grade, right. And I want that to be a nine. I won't send it if I don't think it's a nine or a ten. Right. I'm cool with nines, great with tens. You know, if an eight comes back, depending on the card, I'll leave it or I'll crack it out. Right. Anything below that I think is going authentic from. For my personal stuff. Right. Again, I'd rather have the card at all than have it in a 10 or you know, and then have it in, in a specific grade. Right. Or not be able to find it in a specific grade. I should say that fee that I sold you just for, you know, I, I went after we doing the pre grading and all that, I was like, okay, this is likely a five. Like it. I could get a six. Right. But like if I send it authentic it doesn't matter because people who know what this card is. Know what it is. Yeah, exactly. And there's only 10 copies. Like there are only 10. Like there are a couple copies that got graded well. Right. Unfortunately this is not one of them. But like It's. There's only 10 of them and this is, you know, at the end of the day you have the card versus like you can't. You know, I would love to have that card and I would have loved to gone a 10. And you paid me 100 times what you paid me for it. But you know, just a chance to have the card and then to get, you know, for you to be able to have it still is awesome. And to talk about it on the podcast. Yeah. Like a week later. And I'll tell Brett you got a smoking deal off here. And they're like, oh, great. Like, sweet. I, I was, I was nice and sold it. So I cost myself there. But now. I'm just kidding. It's. I'm. Again, that's. That's one of the best parts of, of the hobby and the comm. The hobby community in general. But the wnba too, like, you see more people in group messages or discords, like, trying to put, you know, cards into people's collections. And, and that's a. A really fun piece of this for me. But yeah, I think a lot of the stuff that I send for authentic is in such poor condition that it, like, it won't sell for, you know, it won't get an eight. Right. Like, I would take an eight on a lot of it, but, like, it's just out of the question. It's so. No, go ahead. Sorry. No, you're good. And so I was just gonna say. And so I've got so many authentic with the auto grade. Right. So, like authentic auto 10 now that, that I. I genuinely look for cards that may be damaged that I can get at a lower price that still have a good autograph that I can send for authentic auto 10 and just throw them up with the rest of mine. They're all uniform, so it's a little bit of both. But like, if, again, if I buy a card and it's clean, I'm not going to send it for authentic. Like, I'm sending it for a 10 10, right? Yeah. But yeah, it's as a, As a. If it's less than an 8 for me, just as like to keep everything uniform, I do send for authentic. It's so interesting how, like, I would say me and you have very similar taste, at least in WNBA cards and I think by extension into a lot of different cards. We, I would say we have similar outlooks on things happening in the hobby. You know, just, you know, similar types of things going on. And yet for me, when I hear the concept of the way that you talk about psi authentic, and then I think about the fact that this week I bought a PSA5 and I was like, I'm not cracking that out. Hell no. You know what I mean? Like, or like, I bought a PSA 5 and a PSA 7. And I'm like, I like that. I like knowing, like, yeah, you know, it's got character, I get it. It's got character. Yeah. You know what I mean? So, like, it's so interesting that two people that have a lot of the same takes in the collecting world, you can carve out your own lane, even in grading, to have preferences and have things that you're focused on. And so when you think, when I think about the PSA authentic with the PSA 10 auto grade, I really like that concept because you're, you're kind of getting the best of both worlds. You don't have to admit to yourself, I think this is part of it. You don't have to admit to yourself that it's not the best condition card, but you can still say, hey, but it's got this really redeeming quality that I have a numerical grade for. So those types of strategies to collecting are things that don't happen overnight. Those are tastes that are curated over years. And I've always thought that your approach to grading was very interesting and unique compared to say, I'm just going to send it and if it gets it, it gets it. If it doesn't, whatever, you know, like. Well, yeah, I, I appreciate that. And I would say a lot of the authentic, like you, again, you deal in probably as much or more vintage as I do. I really am not a vintage guy much anymore. But I think there are, you know, for ultra modern cards, there's very little reason to send for authentic. Right. Like most of these cards are going to come back eight or above. Right. For people listening, the cards specifically that I think Caitlin and I are talking about are like patch autos for the most part that, you know, are an 8 at best in most cases, even from the brand new sets, just the nature of the thick card and the handling process and all that. So, you know, from that perspective, like I do have some cards that, like, if they got an 8, like, I'm not cracking them out and signing them back for authentic. Right. But I do think on the vintage side of things, like an authentic, you know, if you run into a hand cut Babe ruth from the 1900s, like I don't, you know, the early 1910s or whatever it is, like, I don't know what the hell that is. Yeah. And so I need it to say authentic. So I'm exactly buying like a random piece of paper. Right. Somebody who knows more about this than me authenticated this. And so I trust that it's what they say, right? But on the ultra modern stuff, especially the WNBA stuff, it's just more of a personal preference. Yeah, I get it. I. I always, like, I think, like, the only thing I, I feel like I have zero experience in grading. Like I said, I think I got, like, I remember sending in a Subir color blast and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna make so much money. This, like, the greatest flip ever. And it got a seven. And I was like, like, I'm never doing this again. Like, I can't do this. Yeah, I contributed to that pop report. But, like, the thing that I, I really do appreciate about a PSA authentic slab is the fact that you can kind of make your own story behind it, too. You don't have to be like, oh, this thing is damaged. It can just be your card. If you're, Especially if you're just pcing it, it's uniform with the rest of it. You don't have to, like, acknowledge that there's, like, all these things wrong with it. Especially in WNBA cards, where it seems like every card these days, or at least big cards, has a black border or is like a black background which kills the edges. Yeah, I, I get the approach. I. I think I'm understanding it the more we talk through it. Jason. Yeah. And the auto, the auto grade is a big piece of that. Right. Like, I'm not going to send if it doesn't have a clean auto. It's something I know I can get an auto 10 on. I'm just going to leave it raw. Like, if it's a damaged raw card with a bad auto. Right. Like, I. Which is. I've got plenty of those. And it's, you know, not a big deal, but if I can get a 10 auto grade, you still get the 10 on the holder. Authentic condition, whatever. Who cares? People know that it's less than an eight, but, like, again, the stuff that I'm trying to do this on, it's. It's. You're not going to find another one, so. Yeah, exactly. It really doesn't matter at the end of the day. Yeah, I completely agree. Well, let's move into another segment that I had planned out, which is called the emotional side of collecting. Just talking about kind of, you know, there's a sea of cards out there. I'm sure you see a lot of cards both in the WNBA space and outside of it with the whole grading prep. And it's hard to distinguish what's a card that has staying power for you, that you decide to keep in your collection versus something that you'd be willing to move or that you'd be excited to move. I guess my question for you is what creates emotional attachment for you in your women's basketball collection? When you look across what you have as kind of being long term holds, are there unifying factors there? What, what makes it kind of stay. This was the part I had the most trouble with as I was reading through the sheet prior to this. Yeah, I do. I. I think it's. It's really tricky to be emotional about cards. You. It can get you in a lot of trouble both on the buying and the selling side if you're too emotional about cards. And so I try my best not to be right. I have cards that I absolutely love and I have cards that I swear I will never sell. Right? But if that number comes, if somebody's willing to pay the number, you know, or some crazy, you know, amount, like I'm going to sell the card at the end of the day unless there is a 0% chance that I can get it back or get another one. Right? And even then, like, at the end of the day, you can't eat your cards to survive, right? And so it's. I wish I would. I probably. Yeah. So, you know, I love the idea of having cards that are not for sale and like, oh, I'm the only one that has this or blah, blah, blah. But, you know, there are different times in your life where you may need the money or you may not care about cards as much or, you know, just things happen. And so trying to, trying to limit the emotional attachment is something that's benefited me in the past both from a buying and selling perspective as somebody who's full time in cards. And then, you know, I'm fortunate to not have to flip cards to like make a living in cards. Right. Like, I do have a job in cards and so that allows me to collect more than I sell, which is great, except from a space perspective. Like, I've got cards everywhere all the time, but it does allow me to be less emotional about stuff and to let it go and not, you know, not worry if there's going to be a higher sale in another week or whatever it may be. Right. That being said, there are cards that I like a lot more than other cards for specific reasons. Right. Like any of my page stuff. Like, I have a, you know, deep connection now with the Dallas Wings and so getting to watch her just in Dallas and like the city where I grew up and having kind of A true superstar, like playing for our local team, who's just a great person off the court as well, by all accounts, is a. A reason for me to, like, continue to buy her and just to hold on to the stuff that I have. Prior to the wnba, I was a humongous Nolan Arenado collector when he was with the Rockies, which is where I went to college. And when I started collecting in 2013, that was his rookie year for the Rockies. And so I was deeply invested into, like, high end, low end, everything in between Nolan Aaronado. And there were times where I was, like, so emotional about, you know, being a Rockies fan and being an Aonado fan and, you know, all the stuff that I overpaid on, stuff that I ended up losing money on or didn't sell, stuff when. When the market peaked. Right. And so by the end of that, I had been in cards long enough that I was able to do well on. On Aeronauto before he left the Rockies. And then, you know, got into other stuff. But it was close there for a little while, but I might. I thought I might die with a big bag millionaire and auto cards. Yeah. And so, you know, it comes and goes and, and you can get over emotional and be too attached to stuff, but I think it's. You got to find a good balance. I agree with the balance 100. I think that a lot of collecting and a lot of content that I listen to is, so, I don't know, certain about taking a position on the concept of collect versus buy versus sell. And I think that it's okay to admit that sometimes we grow out of cards. Sometimes a card that we loved five years ago, you look at it one day, you wake up and you say, I don't know why I liked it so much, but today I like the money more than this card. And you're allowed to say that to yourself. That's nobody in, like, at least the way that I think about cards, you should feel completely empowered to make those. Those choices because cards are one of the only ways that you can have that kind of autonomy over. Over your belongings, especially these days. So I think that admitting that situations change, whether it be in your mind and your approach to collecting or in the market, in the way that things go. Maybe you bought a card for a hundred bucks, it's worth a thousand, and suddenly you don't want anymore, even though you loved it very much. Maybe you like it for a thousand dollars, that's completely fine. And I think that the way that it's talked about today is not always in this kind of like flexible arrangement. It's, it's just a, if it's in your PC, it has to be there forever and you have to love it and you have to cherish it and if you ever sell it, you're a bad person. It's like, no, no, that's not how this works. Nobody's, nobody's making those rules except for you. You know, you're putting those rules in your head. So I always find it refreshing, even though I would consider myself an over emotional collector, I always find it refreshing to hear that there's ways to operate in the hobby that aren't so rigid or, you know, anxiety inducing, honestly. Like, you know, those, those different approaches are, I think, powerful. And when people hear them being talked about, especially in spaces like wmba, I think it, they can be really helpful. So I like the way they kind of walk through that approach. I want to get into probably another emotional topic, at least to me, which is that women's basketball, like we've noted on, has exploded over the past couple of years, at least in market. It's 100% in the market value of cards, 100% in people watching, viewing, popularity, marketing. Every single metric that you want to apply to WNBA success has grown. Has being kind of like an early believer in women's basketball cards made your collection kind of feel more meaningful and emotional than it used to be? Or does it just, is it just an extra layer of external validation? You know, I, there's very little. To me, there's, there's a very small part of this that's like, oh, this card is worth X. Like it means a lot to me. Right? Yeah. That's not why I keep stuff. Right. Like, I like the card because I like the card. Like I'm a card purist or like a, a fan of the player. Right? The growth is great. Like if I can sell my cards and not lose money, that's ideal, right? But you know, a lot of the stuff that, like, if a time comes I go to sell it, like I'm gonna lose money on it and like, I've accepted that, but that's okay, right? And, and kind of going back to the last part, like there's no right or wrong way to do the hobby, right? Like there's no correct way to collect. Right. And I think a lot, like kind of what you said, those rules that people make up or that you make up for yourself about keeping cards or having a forever PC or whatever it may be, like you said, they just don't exist. And. And if you're happy with what you have and you like the stuff that you have, and even if it goes to zero, right, if you enjoy it, like, it's going to be better than if you don't like the card and it's at zero, right? And then you're. You're out of luck. Right? So I think a lot of, you know, very, very small pieces of me is like, oh, I bought this for X and now it's Y. Right? Like, it's great to make money doing this and. And no hate on the people who do this just to make extra money. Like, I think that's a grind, and I'm not built for it. But cards. Max is one of my best friends, and in. In cars and outside of cards, and. And the guy is amazing. He's a machine, right? Yeah. Making. He's a weapon. He's a weapon, man. He is. Yeah, he is. He's. There's. I tell people this all the time. There's nobody better at what they do in the hobby. Like, and I genuinely believe that. But he's a great guy and truly started out as somebody who was flipping dollar cards, and to see the success he's had is great. Right. But that's not for me. Right. And so which one of us is right or wrong? Neither. Right. It's what's. It's what's right for both of us. Right. And so that's the. The biggest piece of that whole thing for me, I guess, is. Is like, collect what you like. And, yeah, it's. It's a blast to have people acknowledge the cool stuff I have. Right. If you think it's cool, like, great. I also think it's cool, but I didn't buy it to have you tell me that it's cool. Right? Okay, So I think it's cool, and, like, that's good for me. But, like, I do, like, you know, when people come in to my office for whatever reason or for work and. And they want to, you know, talk wnba, like, I think that's great, and I'm happy to do it. I think the league is just on fire. I get people who message me that have nothing to do with Cards, you know, wanting to go to Wings games. They want to see, you know, local people here want to see Paige Beckers. Like, they want to get to the game. They want to go watch. Right? Like, they're hearing all these things. Like, I'm like, dude, she's the. She's unbelievable. Like, we'll. We'll go, you know, and then with cards too. Just people that, you know, see the success people had with Caitlin Clark as like the main example, right. And they, they start getting into WNBA and they realize, oh, I actually really like Alicia Gray. I, you know, I was watching the Fever versus Toronto and saw Marina Mabry and like I'm now a Marina Mabry fan. Right. And so like getting more eyes on and like while the WNBA is still affordable. Quotation marks, like it's, it's exciting because I think people like there's still a ton of opportunity and I think like the game is going to grow, the league's going to grow, people can make money on the cards and it, it's going to continue to be awesome. I completely agree. I, I, I'm really excited because we're getting to my favorite segment of this season. Every episode which is where I asked the guests to do a little thinking beforehand. Think about a card that kind of represents your fandom, WNBA fandom. A card that maybe, you know, means more than, than what the other cards in your collection do. Jason, did you have the opportunity to think this through and if so, could you kind of walk us through which card you picked out, the story, the why behind it? Yeah. So I have a Paige Becker's a Panini instant All Star Game autograph. So it's a limited print that Panini did after the All Star Game which we've got coming up. I'm hoping to grab one another one if they do it again this year. But this one is her rookie year, so. Her rookie year All Star game autograph. It's number to 30, 30 copies and my copy happens to be the jersey number. So it's number five of 30, which is awesome. It is in poor condition and so I graded it authentic. It did get a 10 autograph. It's on card autograph. It's a beautiful autograph and I knew Kaylin would laugh at that. But yeah, it was probably going to grade out at like a seven at best. And so I sent it for authentic again. It matches all my, all my other stuff in my authentic auto 10 PC and it's a, it's a special car just for me because of how much I've grown to like the Wings over the last couple years and then just being again being able to have a machine gun for our home team. Right. She's Paige is unbelievable and like I can't say enough about her game and so I'm just a, I'm a massive Paige Beckers fan and I really enjoy this card. Yeah, I love that one. I remember when these came out because I was at the WNBA All Star game last year and I remember thinking to myself, these are on card autos. We don't get these every day in the WNBA world. Like, these are going to be special. Was that the main draw for why this card? I guess my. I'm wondering why. Why this page over, say, I don't know, Donrus page or something like that. Why. Why the instant All Star version? Yeah, the on card is a, is a big. Is a big addition. I think the prior to impeccable one and one. And then now some of these like mystery redemption stuff that's coming out there would have been the only on card autograph. The Don Russ stuff is sticker. The prism stuff is sticker. This was really also just an early chance of getting. And it's not even. She's not even in wings jersey. She's like wearing an all star jersey in the picture. But this was really just an early chance for me to pick up a nice rookie autograph. And then I got lucky again that it got their hand numbered to 30. And so when mine came in the mail and it was numbered 5 of 30, I was like, oh, like awesome. You know what I mean? Like died lucked out there. And a friend of mine who is local and another WNBA collector actually just got his redemptions in from the. The mystery redemptions from select, which is the nt. And two of his three page redemptions are jersey number as well. What is the collation that happening? Happening? Yeah. And so he got a. He has a number to 99 or maybe. Maybe so. Yeah, the number to 99 I don't think is jersey number, but his number to 49 and then the number to 10. He got both 5 of 10 and 5 of. Or you know, I was like, dude, that's like you can never sell those. And if you do sell them to me. Right. So yeah, so you know, the jersey number. I'm not somebody that would like go out of their way to pay extra if I'm buying like a jersey number card. It just happened to be like I got lucky. Right. And so it means a little bit more to me. But yeah, that would be. That would be the one that like means the most to me probably right now. Especially for the, for the Wings cards anyway. Yeah. Yeah, I like that pick. Like I said, I, I think my tasting cards really speaks to that particular one because if people haven't seen it before, I believe it's the. It's like very White, like there's not a lot going on. Design wise. It's like photo, white background on card, auto. It's like that's the formula that I like for me. You know what I mean? Like, I do appreciate an intricate design. I do appreciate, like very intentional choices. I love a busy card. I love a lenticular. Like, you can get crazy with it, but when it comes down to it, just a white card with a nice auto, not too much, very clean. And I appreciate that. So I love this pick. I think I could talk all day about Paige Becker's game, about everything that she stands for. Just an awesome person. And I think we'll get more into the players here shortly, but kind of want to go a little rapid fire through a couple more questions here for you because I know we got. We could be talking for hours. I always do this. I'm like rambling. You can cut me off. No, you're good. It's like I tell people, I'm like, if we could just get like an hour of your time and then it ends up being like way longer than that. So we'll go a little bit more. But the next segment that I had kind of outlined first was around community, culture and environment. And this lends itself nicely because we're talking about Dallas, we're talking about Page, but it does feel like in the hobby right now, Dallas is a very interesting market with Paige and AZ both number one overall picks. Being on the same team in a hub that maybe hasn't seen success like this card wise, obviously you got the Cowboys down there. Can't believe I just said that out loud. You've got Cooper flag in the Mavericks, but this feels kind of like another layer to what's going on down there. And it feels like the fan base has a lot of momentum. What has the Wings collector base kind of felt like to you? And I'll ask a follow up question, which is that do you think the Wings fan base in Dallas has grown over the past few years, at least at card shows, or is this that something that still feels like super tiny? You're trying to find your people? That's a good question. So I would say if you're a new Wings collector, you're probably still looking to find your people. Right. As somebody who's been around like with the WNBA and collecting community be, it's pretty much an overlap, right? Like, right. You see more and more people coming, but like the people that were already Wings fans, like, I already knew. Right. And so it's more. I. I'm seeing a lot of the same people. I do think the, the fan base is growing rapidly. I, you know, and a lot of that has to do with Paige and az. I, you know, unfortunately, Dallas will always be a Cowboys city first. Right. Very unfortunate. I'm not a Cowboys fan. I'm not a huge football guy. If I do anything, it's fantasy and then I root for the players. Right. But Dallas is a more fun place to live when the Cowboys are good. So I, I kind of root for them to do good for like, deals at restaurants and when they're kind of just the everyday, like, happenings in Dallas. So I was again, a longtime Mavs fan, so I, you know, I'm seeing what Cooper Flag is doing for the Mavs and I argue with people all the time that Paige is doing more if, you know, as much, if not more for the Wings than Cooper is for the Mavs. And kind of the same year. Right. To they're both drafted the same year or maybe not, I don't even know. But like, they're both the number one picks like in Dallas. Right. And then to add AZ into that equation, I think the Wings have more exciting, you know, buzz around them than the Mavs do. The Mats have Cooper. He's going to be great. Like, there's virtually no doubt about that. The Wings have Paige. She's great. There's no doubt about that. AZ is very good. I've been very impressed. I think it's a really good fit for the team and I think they're going to continue to grow and build a serious contender, you know, as most rookies do. It's going to take some time. Right? Right. I think AZ's got a long way to go before she's like, at her potential. Whereas, like, Paige and Cooper both kind of stepped in and were awesome right away. And like, that's so rare. And, and I know now Olivia Miles is doing that for your links. And so a lot of people have been asking me like, hey, what's, what's the deal? Why didn't we take Olivia Miles? And I was like, if you would have asked me before the draft, like, if Olivia Miles could do this or like, if she was going to be good, I would have said, yeah, she's going to be good. I did not think she was not that good All Star starter. Like, it's pretty nuts. So, yeah, I know there's been some, you know, hesitation around az. I think she's got a, you know, she's got an extremely high ceiling and, and like Most rookies, it's gonna, like, take a little while to get there. Yeah. But, yeah, from a collector standpoint, I think it's. It's still coming. Yeah. A lot more of the community around the Wings first, and then, like, the card people kind of figure it out. I hear that. I think it's interesting because when I set up in April at the big Minnesota show, I think my two most asked about players were Paige Beckers and Az Fudd. So when I think about, like, well, obviously Caitlin Clark's up there too, but, like, it was Paige Beckers and Az Fudd. That is who people were looking for. I think about putting them in the same town, putting them on a team that hasn't had a lot of success, and suddenly it's starting to pan out in terms of wins. Right. And I would think, yeah, that's what I mean. Like, they're doing it. I would. I'm just surprised to hear that maybe Dallas doesn't have a stronger wings collecting base, especially with such a. I don't know the word I want to use, like, just fertile ground of the Dallas card show, too, to kind of like, breed that fandom. I would expect this to be a zone of opportunity, at least from somebody who's not in the area. That's my kind of, like, thought on the. The Dallas market. Yeah. And I do think it's growing. I think a lot of people that I know, like, we just had the Dallas card show this past weekend a lot of times. Again, WNBA is still kind of an afterthought at the main. The big shows. People are looking for, you know, the case hits and all this other stuff, like new football, new basketball. But every. Every show increasingly. So over the past decade, since I've done this, right, I get more people asking about wnba, asking about Page. I try not to sell, right? So, like, people don't really come and ask me for Page because they know it's like, I'm not. I'm not interested in moving it. But it's. I do see people asking or like saying, hey, I bought this page. I bought, you know, I sold this page, blah, blah, blah. She's got so much room to grow. It's crazy. So, like, I would buy anything that walked up to the table, right? But yeah, I think. I think there's still a long way to go for just W collecting in general. And so I don't think it's anything specific to Dallas. I just think that, like, hey, if you're at a big show, like, the W collectors is still Such a small percentage of that, that, like, you've got all this crazy opportunity before. It's not such a small percentage of, like, the main show, you know? Yeah, I. I completely agree. I think that Caitlyn kind of operates as a measuring stick for. For pages. Cards in that it's clear that there's this opportunity for her to reach a different level of pricing, at least in my opinion. I think that Paige is a generational player who's going to have sustained success no matter what team she's on. I think she's a walking, marketable ad. I think she just. She has every factor in the equation that should result in hobby prices. And I think that Caitlin kind of, I don't know, breaking the glass ceiling in terms of WNBA prices. It's just a matter of time until Paige, I don't want to say catches up, but has. Yeah. Closes the gap is just a matter of time. So I think that, you know, hearing that you think that we're kind of in that. That that potential phase is. I completely agree. And I'd be interested to see how much more it takes to get us there, because I am not a patient person, so I don't have the guts to buy it now and wait. But I just. I think it's. It's making sense to me. Yeah. And again, at risk of sounding like a Caitlin Clark hater and dealing with it online. Yeah. They're gonna get you, Jason. Yeah. For what it's worth, like, I'm taking Paige over Caitlyn if I'm starting a team all day long, like, 10 times out of 10. And Caitlyn's great, don't get me wrong. But, like, everything that comes with it, like, I'm good and. And, you know, like, Paige is just so good. Like, I've said that 10 times already, this podcast, but anybody that I talk to about it, I'm just like, if you haven't watched, like, you need to watch. Because if you're a fan of basketball at any level, like men's, women's, whatever it is, college pro, like, you're going to understand very quickly, especially Dallas people, which I related to Luca all the time. I'm like, you remember watching Luca and just. They have this in intent, like, there's something about them that when you're watching, you're like, this person is special. Like, it doesn't. There's no. I don't know how to say it, but, like, you're. You can. You have a chance to win every game as long as that person's on your team. And that's, you know, that's Paige Beckers. And I, I think Caitlyn does have that ability as well. And I'm not. Again, I'm, I'm really. I mean, I am a Caitlyn fan. I think she's a great player. But, like, I'm not. I would take. Again, I take Paige like 10 times out of 10. I get it. I get it completely. And I think that something that. Maybe that's a little biased as a Wings fan, but. Well, yeah, well, of course you should say that. But I think that one of the things that make Paige so special is kind of the like, mentality that a lot of the great players have or great athletes, which is they just hate to lose. She hates losing, man. And she doesn't lose. Like, she just won't accept it. And I think that kind of, you can. When you watch her in person or when you watch her play on TV or whatever, you can just see it, that it just like upsets her. And I think that kind of, I don't know, that drive is what separates her for me at least. And I see that in players that I like and like to collect. So, okay, would you put Paige on your Dallas Wings Mount Rushmore or if not, who are you. Who are you putting up there? Yeah, absolutely. And I might put her all four times. Four. No, I'm just kidding. If I had to do a Dallas Wings Mount Rushmore. Are we talking about cards or players? Like, just. Only up to you. You can choose. So I thought about this one. It was good when I was preparing earlier and I. I think I'm gonna do cards because it's a little more. And I think you may be surprised, but I'm gonna put the 2018 Donruss Optic Gold Arique rated rookie. So, like the same card that I sold you, but a recap. Right. First year optic. There's only 10 copies. Panini Gold got everything going for it. There hasn't been a sale since 2020. Public sale. Check that this morning. But yeah, that's a great card. Great set. Just impossible, you know. And people who were again, you know, around, like the Wings don't have a lot of written house stuff. Yeah. And so it's like, whatever I'll get, you know, we'll skip that era. We're kind of in the ultra modern era only. And so I'll start with the Donra Soft to Gold. The second one. This was the one I struggled with. Like, if it's going to do a top Three. The second one, I'm going to say Arike again, but I'm going to say it's the Select Gold Vinyl Courtside. Oh, the. Yeah. Photo is that it's her shooting a jump shot like a freeway. And it's the reason Select Courtside, I would say A, select courtsides don't get enough love. B, it's the first year of select for the wnba and so it kind of shows. It's post Caitlyn. Right. So it's like Caitlyn's in the league. WNBA is expanding. We're kind of starting to get these new sets. So from a hobby perspective, like, we've got something other than Prism, which is great. And then Gold Vinyl, as good as it gets.101. It got a PSA 10 as well. So, like, that's a sick card. I don't know who owns that one, but that's an awesome piece. Like, if you're listening and you have it like, that's a. That's a top Wings card probably ever, in my opinion. And then third, I would just say Paige Gold Vinyl Rookie from Prism, kind of the flagship, you know, flagship rookie card. I know Ben Rippen has that one. I believe it got a 10 as well. I. I would have to double check that. Yeah, I know he has both. Both the true and the variation. And I'd say the true, true Prism Gold Vinyl Rookie of Paige. And that's just a. Entering the wings, you know, hopefully next 20 years of. Of Paige, you know, being. Being the guy. So, yeah, those are good picks. I love the Rique Legitimacy here as an Enrique apologizer. I. I can get on board with this message. Nice. And so, yeah, I think Arike got, you know, I think she gets a bad rap. She was all they had for so long. And, like, she's a certified scorer. Right. I'm happy for her that she's now got people around her. Some relief. Yeah. And like, but she's a. She's a baller. She can play. And I think people still kind of get angry with her here for, like, taking too many shots and all. I'm like, listen, you know. Yeah, she does, but, like, she had to go through eight seasons of being the only one that could shoot. Right. And so it's, you know, I kind of give her a break. She had a great game today, and they beat the Sparks this afternoon. She played well. So I'm rooting for a Rike. I got some nice Enrique stuff in the past. I've always moved it to people who are interested, but I would like to add a nice Enrique at some point in the Wings jersey. And if I ever run into that courtside gold vinyl, I'll definitely make a run at it. 100i Arike is a Wisconsin native and I grew up watching her as a kid, so I've got way too much love for Rike. But I completely understand that she deserves kind of, you know, in the tier ranking list when they're like, okay, this person s tier. A tier I've seen this person makes it and they just put Arike tier. And that means you're just shooting the ball to your arm falls off, which is great. Hey, like, into her credit, like, for the longest time, she had to. If they were having him win five games all season. Right? 100%. All right, I'm going to close out this segment and with one question that I've asked everybody so far, which is that there's this concept of the disrespect index that we talk about, which is that somebody is playing super well on the court, but they're, you know, market performance isn't translated, so they're not being respected in the. In the market. If you had to pick one Wings player to put as like, the highest degree of disrespected on the index, who would you pick? Man, AR is up there after we just had that conversation. But I think the obvious answer for this season is probably Jessica Shepherd. Turn them. Turn his mic off. And I don't know. I haven't been watching her market, so I couldn't tell you, like, where it started or what it's at now. But, like, I have to imagine going from not playing for the links to all star starter has to do good things for your market. She is playing like Nicole Jokic for the Wings and. Oh, and seriously, like, that's the only comp. Every time I go to a game, I'm like, how does she. It's halftime. She has 10, 10 and 5. Like, what do we. You know, I would. Sorry. I was gonna say I was at the game versus Vegas where she had 20, 22 and 10 or 12 or whatever it was. And I was like, who the hell is this? I was like, what? Where did we get this girl? And it's. And I was, you know, hesitant to think that it was going to last all season. It was going to be this consistent. But she's been awesome every game in the season. She fits great with Paige. So I'm going to say Jessica Shepherd. Oh, my God, this is so painful. Like, as somebody who spent way Too much time yelling at the screen last year about Jessica shepherd being absolutely useless down the stretch. I just. It pisses me off that she's doing so well. I'm very happy for her and for Dallas. I'm glad that she's. It's always good to see. But just, like, why couldn't you have done that when we needed you the most? Which is the stakes were so much higher and we just needed, like, five rebounds from you a game, and we would have been good. And now she's putting up triple doubles left and right, and I'm like, what the hell happened? Everything. Like, 12 rebounds. Yeah, it's really great. It's like 12i there. It's like 12 rebounds, but it's like zero blocks apparent. I saw the stats. She has, like, the least. Yeah. The least number of blocks for somebody with the most rebounds in history. You know what? Whatever. Like, my whole thing is, if you've got a player like that, like, let them do what they're comfortable with and, like, we'll supplement right. With, like, the Wings. Their big thing right now is interior defense. Like, they. If we play a competent day, like, we get crushed. And so that's. We're working on that. But a walk career has been awesome. I don't know if you've paid much attention to the Wings, but she's having a great season. It's a really fun team. It's a really fun team. And obviously Paige and Az, like, are. They're going to continue to get better. And hopefully Jessica shepherd stays. And we've kind of got a 4, 3 for a while. 100%. Well, I don't want to take up too much more time of your time, Jason, so I will leave us here with this question, which is one that I ask everybody, which is if somebody's listening today. Maybe they like Cards, but they haven't decided to pick an allegiance for a team in the WNBA yet. And they're thinking to themselves, wow, maybe Dallas would welcome me with open arms. What would kind of be your pitch to the undecided fan to join the Dallas Wings fandom? Yeah, I think I've kind of made it all podcast long, but Paige Beckers, like Paige Madison Beckers is the. Would be my start and finish to that. To that question. Just. Just an attack dog. And she's again, like, if you have her on your team, like, you're in position to win every game just in the fourth quarter, it seems seemingly even more every game that she is in control and wants to win. Like you said, but, but honestly it's a, it's a really fun franchise. A lot of growth. Are moving into a bigger arena next season. They've had a couple games there this season that have been great and it's going to be really, really fun. I think you're still early if you're looking to get in both the collecting and just WNBA fandom and I think it will benefit you for years to come to get on the train. Right? I agree. I can co sign on the at least the Paige Beckers pitch here. I can't co sign on the wings but I can co sign on the page for 100%. Jason, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to come talk about WNBA cards. This has been a long time in the making to finally get one on the books. It feels awesome. So thank you so much. If people want to find you, maybe they've got cards that they want looked at to grade. Maybe they're looking for some Clue logo women to try to pry out of your collection. Where can they find you? How can they message you? Yeah, happy to talk WNBA with anybody who is willing to listen, really. And I've got a lot of hot takes that we didn't really go over that I was hoping we'd get into. But that's all right. Leave, leave us with and Jason. No, we'll save her for another episode. You'll have to. I'll have to come back. But if you want to find me, I'm at. At not Jason Dardic on Instagram. I'm at Jason Dardic on Twitter and then yeah, at the card spa on Instagram as well. Card spa tx thecardspot.com whatever you want to, however you want to reach out. I'll. I'll do my best to answer. Awesome. Jason, thank you so much for repping the wings this week on this week's episode of WNBA Card Pod. And yeah, we'll have to get you on for another one to talk about all those hot takes. 100% guys. Thanks for listening and we'll see you on the next one. Awesome conversation with Jason Passionate collector. That was a lot of fun. Fun. Make sure you go follow him on Instagram at not Jason Dardic. I'm loving these. This is awesome. Caitlyn's doing a killer job. Shout out card ladder for sponsoring the pod. Shout out all of you for supporting the WNBA Card podcast here on the Stacking Slabs Network. Until next week, happy hooping. Happy collecting. Take care. Talk soon.