Are Dealers Cornering The Market? Extra Innings With Jake of @WaxPackWisdom & Matt From Providence

Welcome to extra innings on the sports card clubhouse with the hit list. I'm Jake. That's Matt from Providence. We are back again and it's. It's late on Tuesday. I'm feeling. I've been up for a long time. I'm feeling a little punchy. So let's. Let's see how this goes. Okay. Pretty good. I gotta be honest. Matt picked the topic. It's a topic that. That I think we decided. Wow. Talk about throwing me under the bus. Talk about. Matt picked the topic, gave me no choice. This is a topic that deserves an honest discussion. And the question that you had deserved an honest discussion for a long time is. This is the question. And I'm gonna. I'm gonna let. This is. I don't know if you have to put the name in there right away. What. But just that model. Okay? What model? What are you talking about? Go ahead. All right. Are dealers cornering the market on all the good cards? That's the question. That's the question. Framing the question. So, Matt, what's your take? Do you believe that the dealers are cornering the market on all the good cards? Oh, yeah, that. Okay. They've monopolized. They've monopolized. How so? What do you mean? What do you mean, how so? I mean. Well, what's the problem? Gone out and continue to go out and buy all the cards. Okay, the. But the. The. And so do you think it's. What does it mean for the collector? What does it mean for the collector? It hurts the collector because now the collector has to pay more for the car for the same card. Okay. Did you try to buy a Wilson Franks before you got the one you got? I. There was one conversation that I had with a dealer who I thought had a. Did you try to buy one in an auction and then see it in somebody's showcase after that? Well, I certainly saw them. There's probably none that I was, like, realistic. I thought there was. I thought you. I thought. I thought maybe you didn't try to buy it, but we saw one a.2 MK. No, there were multiple. There were multiple Wilson Frank's Teds that sold at auction that were not. They were out of my range. They were car. They were like twos. Two and a halfs. Yeah, and they would. They would. I thought you told me about an exact story that you tried that you saw. You were watching a Wilson Franks. You saw it sell, and then you saw it in Ash's showcase two weeks later. No, that. That is what happened. That happened. That is what happened? Right, but that was, I didn't bid on that card. That wasn't realistic. You didn't bid on that card? No, I think it, I think that it, it sold in golden for like 12k and then it was in here. But you did see that card end up in Ash's showcase, correct? Yes. Right. So the guy who finished second got hurt, right? Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Right, yeah. So to be clear, how much markup was on that card? Well, I think I, I, I, I hate to like not, not my head at least. Yes, I let, for the sake of argument, I'm pretty sure that it was, it sold for 12k and then I saw it in a showcase and, or on ebay for like 18 or 19. Right. A week later. Right. So. So when that happened, anybody was that was in on that card at 12, 13 smoked when that happened, that's when I told myself the next time one of these comes up, that's in my range, it's now or never. I'm getting. So that's, that's how I ended up with my, Listen, I do the same thing. I buy cards at auctions on ebay, I resell them all the time. The problem is is that not just Ash or Garrett or Stan, these guys that have a huge, huge inventory of big, big cards, is that those 52 mantles, those 48 jackies? It's a trickle down in price from those card, particularly the 52 mantle. So every other card is determined from that card from the SGC 9 and a half to the PSA ones. Those sales determine the prices of other cards. 52 mantle runs the hobby. Okay. For prices, sure. I think most people would agree with that. I mean I think Ash has them all. He's got a lot. I think he's got a lot. Yeah. So like if he's got the card that determines the price of the rest of the cards, that's the problem. Problem for us collectors. Problem for us collectors because the trickle down effect is brutal. It's brutal. Yeah. And it's been turned on by dealers across the country, vintage dealers across the country, I would say over the last year. Probably started about a year, year and a half ago that really, really got turned on. And now what have we seen in the last six months? Prices are up 30%. That's the effect of the work that was being done 18 months ago, 12 months ago by these big time dealers. Part of it, part, not all of it. I'm not saying these big time dealers caused a 30% increase, but I bet you they Caused a third of that. 30%, which 10%, I guess 10% of the, of the increase. That's a lot that just a few guys have had in the hobby because they bought all the big time cards. Not all of them, but they bought a lot almost of the big time available cards. Yeah. You know. Yeah. No, I would agree, I would agree that it's, there's other factors at play. It's, the market is more popular, there's more people in the market than ever. And there's other things. Inflation, like things just cost more. Like it's, it's, there's a lot of different factors. But I do agree with you. There's nothing wrong with what they're doing for their business. There's nothing, no, nothing wrong. There's nothing wrong. It is a, looks like a fantastic business model from what I can tell. Yeah. But I think it's hurting, I think it's hurting the collectors. I think we're really taking a beating on prices because of that. Yeah. You saw Shriners who walked around and cleaned out everybody right away on vintage two, two people, two groups of people. Legacy cards and Garrett Wells. Yeah, right. No, that is true. Yeah. I'm really gonna stamp you on this. Yes or no? Yes. Those guys walked around and bought, bought up a bunch of cards. And from what I hear, I don't know, from what I've heard is they do that across the country, all the major shows. I mean, we saw it, it was at Strongsville. We saw it. Is that also the impression you've got about Dallas and other big time shows across the country? Strongsville? I mean, you brought up Garrett. He, Garrett shows, posts videos of himself doing that. Right. You know, like it's, it's not. And he's, he is very, he's transparent about his business. I, I, I really appreciate that about him. Like, he's very transparent about it. And so, so those guys, I don't understand. He shows the cards. Well, I'm just saying like he, he shows his buying process and he's, he's selling, saying how much he's, how much he's buying stuff for. Like, you see that, that's, that's trans to me. That's, that's really transparent. That's cool. Is that you, you can see if he, and he does the thing, he does the same things that I've seen you do and other people do, which is you try to pull together a bunch of cards and try to get a deal. Like that's how do it. That's how I Try to approach. Don't ever buy one baseball card. That's my advice to everybody. Yes. And we're gonna end at the national this year. I want to. You know, you always take. You're always like, we should do this and that. This year, I do want to do it. Like the same thing. Last year, you walked over to American Caramel Cob. The guy had plenty of cards I would have bought. But anyways, yeah, I think it's a. I think. I think nothing can be done to solve this problem. I, too, in fact, have to do the same thing now. I have to go to court. When I go to my card shows. I gotta go see what's out there, by the way, like Shriners, that I have to go out there and check, because if I don't, GW is gonna do it, or legacy cards are gonna do it or whatever. You know, this is a. This is a great, honest discussion about. About what you have to do in order to get in order to. But the problem is those big, tight cards really affect the cut. The. The pop counts down, and it really. It's gonna affect the cost long term. We're seeing it now. Listening right now. It's tough. Tough. Yeah. Yeah. No, I. Yeah, you know, I talked to one guy today. I talked to a bunch of people today, but I talked to one guy today, and he's like, yeah, but he's got the good stuff. He's got all the good stuff. I said, that's my point. He's got all the good stuff. There's nothing left for the rest of us. He's got it all. So he sets the market. You make a good point, which is like, yeah, when I. So Ash. It always blows me away every time he does one of these Instagram posts. And it's always like three posts. Like, one, one of three. And then it's like 20 pictures of all of his stuff, and it's just like, unbelievable. And again, kudos. Unbelievable. An unbelievable success those guys have had. It's amazing. Yeah, I wish. I wish. But I. But the other thing is. The other thing is I look through all of it and I'm. And I. Because I always. Because I always scour it, because I think about, okay, when's the next show that I'm gonna go to that I'm gonna see those guys at? And I don't know if it's just that their inventory or like, that inventory has shifted away from, like, what I like to collect or if it's the prices going up, but I. I look through all of those. And I'm like. I'm like, okay, well, I don't have to. I don't have to. To bookmark this. There's just. There's nothing for me. That's. That's what's happened. I'll tell you the day you want a 52 mantle, you better go see Mustache and see if it's okay if you buy one. And I will say this just again. Last year at the Shriners, last November, I bought what at the time was the most expensive card I'd ever bought from. From. From jb. From was the. The. My American Caramel Wagner. Wow. So that was. And I got a fantastic deal on that card. I would do that. That. I. I think so. I would do that 10 times out of 10 every day, twice on Sunday. That deal. That was a fantastic deal. And you. Not that long ago, you bought a really nice card from. From Ash. The. The. Your. Your. Your hornsby. The. The national is an American caramel or National Caramel. American. It is National. You got. And you. You thought you felt like you got a great deal on that, right? Yes. So, yeah, I guess you got a deal on it. You didn't. You didn't feel like you. I bought it online. No, but I bought it straight. Straight online because I didn't want somebody else to buy it. Not because, like, it was this amazing card, but it was a trimmed card, so it's all in the eye of the beholder on this trimmed card, right? Yeah. So I really wanted a copy, and good luck getting into that copy at that price. So I grabbed it right away. I'm never gonna say he's giving out good deals. I'm never gonna say it. Sorry. It's never gonna happen. You know what? No, I would. I would say my. My Wagner. I wouldn't say. It's not like I got a cheap playing days haunted Wagner. That wasn't a game card. I mean, I paid a lot of money for it, but I felt like I was very happy with what I picked. I was happy with what I paid for it. All right, who's arguing with you? No, no, I'm just saying, like, you talk about this later. I'm saying that these guys. It just. I feel like, again, whether it's the prices going up for everything or it's just the cars that are in the inventory, it's just. It's increasingly. It's just not for me. So I feel like. I don't know why those prices went up so much for. For me, I feel like I'M better off at auctions, you know, but, but again, the same thing. You're competing with these, all of these guys in auctions too. Like they, these guys hustle. This is what they do. They, they get these cards. Nothing wrong with it. Whatever source they can. Kudos, those guys. But again, like, yes, the point that we're trying to make here is just that this is, it's a tough environment for, for collectors and for, for anybody that wants to buy. We're going to wrap this up neat because we're already at 12 minutes. I want to wrap it up neat. And so I don't want to attack, I didn't want to attack people individually. The problem is those guys are so good at it and so far above everyone else. And it's there for their business model. They're killing it. So I'm not criticizing that. I'm criticizing, I'm criticizing the effect it has on the average collector. Okay. And Joe Schmo in Iowa, who has no idea who these guys are, who any of these dealers are. He's buying a card. That card's price was affected because this other guy bought all the 52 maples last year. It just does a trickle down and it really affects everybody. And I think that this business model that, that vintage dealers are now doing across the country of buying up all the good inventory and putting their showcases or buying the best, buying a lot of the best auction cards and then putting them into their inventory. The great business model. But it's hurting the average collector. Yeah. And I just, it's a fair, it's a very fair take. And I, I completely. By the way. Yeah, I'll be patting yourself on the back. Yes. I will be guilty of it come November at Triters. Yes, same thing. Same thing. I'm gonna do the same thing. By the way. If I don't, the other guy's gonna do it all and I can't, then I can't compete. It's a competition. This is the only good news is when I do it, I don't mark it up as high as other guys. And that's why I feel comfortable having this conversation. Yeah. Yeah. That's all. And I think that, I think the way that you do it is, is, is old school. And I think it's a, it's a, it's a good, you know, it's good. I had a guy reach out on Instagram to buy a card for Mesa. I mean, don't sell online, buddy. I'm sorry. Well, just, I just, I, I meant more of just the buying so that you can sell it at the market price. That's. That's old to me. That's. That's an old school approach. It's old school to try to sell a product market price, not gouge people. That's new school. Cool. Hey, you said it, not me. Like comment, subscribe and collect.