Are PSA's Grades Obsolete? MidLife Card Chase

Sports talk, talk, talk. Bobby all day Wax packs big polls and comms. We debate. So turn in and let the intro play. You're now rocking with the midlife car Chase. David Chase. How are you, buddy? Good. I'm doing great. Greg Miller. How are you doing, my friend? I'm doing good. It's been a minute since we've recorded one of these. We recorded our last one quite a while ago before each of us went on a vacation. You went from beautiful California to beautiful Hawaii, and I went from beautiful California to beautiful Alaska. Sounds like you had a good time. I liked. I watched your video. I ended up seeing the family have a great time on the cruise. Sounds like you lived like a king. I watched your junk Wax podcast and it's called Surface. Sounds like you were being fanned with palm leaves and fed grapes as you laid down on the deck. I'm impressed. Yes. And obviously it looked like you had a good time and you got to hang out with Joe Perot while you were there. Yeah, that was cool. Yeah. So I'm excited because it's been a minute since we've done this and I look forward to these. So now before we get too far, I do want to just throw out there to everybody Monday night. So when this airs, this will be airing on Saturday night. So two days from when this goes live, Monday, July 13, we're going to be doing a midlife card show over on my home channel, Midlife Sports Cards, and you are going to be one of the guests for a big. I mean, what do you think about this? I mean, if people aren't listening kind of from your perspective, what are you expecting? Monday, July 13th at 9:00pm Eastern. You mean I made it to the big channel, Greg? Is that what you're telling me? You're on the screen right there. There you are. Oh, my God. I'm on the midlife. You've been on a live stream with my channel before, so I don't know what you're talking about. I know I like to mess with you. I mean, look at this panel. I love it. It has the good Dave, we have Rodeo Joe Perot, we have the King Mike Petty, all being led by Mr. Rogers himself, Greg Miller. I mean, I am super excited for this show. I love this panel and dude doing anything with you, you know that. I just love your channel and I love you and it's gonna be fun. We're gonna have a good time. I mean, only had a live with Petty, I think maybe twice ever. And you know, he's a good friend of mine and everything. So it's always, it's, it's extra special for me to have that. But everybody, Joe Perot and Dave, it's going to be super exciting to talk with all you. So if, if you're out there trying to figure out what is what we're talking about. So on my channel, Midlife Sports Cards, Monday night at 9pm Eastern. One of the things that happens is before the National, a lot of people with channels look through their collection. They say, what are the cards I think I can maybe live without because they have some big goal cards that they're hoping to acquire at the National. And so what a lot of people will do is they'll put some of their cards up for sale and they will go on their channel. They will say, hey, I'm doing the, I'm bringing these cards. If you're interested, let me know. And then at the national, they execute a deal. They, they exchange the card for cash. And so it's another way for somebody to buy a card. And it's a way to do it where you're not paying, you know, national dealer costs necessarily, and you're not, you're also able to sell it at full value instead of sell it to a dealer at less. So it's kind of a win, win for the community. And I was talking to it. It actually started with David Mosari, who's on the panel again. He' the guy right here. And David said, you know, we should start considering doing more stuff within the community instead of always having to loop a dealer in. And I was like, he goes, but I don't have a channel. And I was like, well, we could fix that. So that's kind of how this whole thing became inspired. So what we've got are four of my good buddies who are guys that don't have channels and can't put their cards up for sale for a national transaction. And then also I'm going to show a few cards, I believe, of my dad's that he's going to have for sale for the National. He's not going to hop on screen because it gets a little bit too crowded if we have too many people on. And then Jeremy Lee, our buddy from Sports Cards Live and from the Sports Card Clubhouse, he reached out and he said, hey, I heard you're doing this. I don't really usually do that, but can I put a card, a few cards up? I said, yeah. So we got some from him. So there's going to be a lot of stuff available with prices and contact information. So I think it'll be fun. Nice. Yeah, that's. Yeah, I'm super excited to do it. It's going to be. It's going to be a great time. Doing these lives are so much fun. So they are like watching you control the board. And then I will be participating in Hobby Palooza the following weekend. I don't. I think that you'll be on a Hobby Palooza episode too. Yeah, yeah. Doing it Saturday night. So Saturday night you'll be on Sports Cards live. I. My slot is going to be Sunday night. It's one of the last slots. And I will have my usual midlife crew of Darren, Tony, and the one and only Mr. Petty. Now, before we get into this, I have a question about Hobby Palooza. Is everything live on lobby on Hobby Palooza? Yes. Oh, cool. Yeah, everything is live. So one show ends, the next show starts. One after another after another. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it, Greg. And that's not this. When is that? That's like in two weeks from now, right? It's like the two weeks before the national. Maybe next week. And that is. I think it's next weekend. Okay, cool. The weekend. This comes out on Saturday. The next. The next weekend after that. Yeah, exactly. And I think it's my fourth, my fourth straight year on Hobby Palooza. So I'm excited about doing that again. So I was honored that they asked. Now, before we go too far, I do want to throw out a thank you to our friends, the sponsor of this show, which is Auction Wire. Again, Auction Wire is a tool where one search location will access you to a whole bunch of auction houses and private dealer collections where you can search for cards that you're looking for. You can try it for free. For free for 2 months using the promo code SCC. I highly recommend it. I've been using it now for, I don't know, seven, eight months. I know you are a user of Auction Wire as well. How do you use it? Like, what is to you, what is the piece of Auction Wire that is the most beneficial for you and your collecting pursuits? I, I'm, I always have kept my ebay watch list and save searches very detailed and I just, I kind of use that as my checklist and then what I do is I copy those over to Auction Wire. So I have like maybe like 30 searches that I am always looking at at all times and save those searches and I just then take away ebay and look at for any other auction house. So for these, I mean the thing that I love the most about it is I'm kind of keeping my eye on, like, some of the larger auction houses, but the smaller ones are the ones I definitely am not. And for me to find out about some of these smaller auction houses that I would never go to, and I'm like, oh, my God, that's one of my cards. And then it brings me into that auction house and then I start looking at them, and there's always cards that are not on my list that I like, but it kind of alerts me, but that there's an auction house that's not on my radar to go and take a look at it. So that's how. Yeah, I think that's the most interesting part too, is there are a lot of smaller auction houses I wasn't even aware of. And auction wire hits all that. So definitely a useful tool. Again, try it out for two months. Promo code scc. Now, our topic for this week, and I guess this was my topic. I suppose it was my topic. No, is it. Was it yours for you? A bone, Greg? I mean, you're starting to get a little. I started to feel like I was picking the topics and I was vetoing too many of yours. So, you know, you let me have this one. Got it. I. Yeah, I don't know about that. But what David and I discussed about talking about, and it's funny because whenever we talk about, okay, what do we want to talk about? We then you always try to go, well, what do you think? And you want to start. And I say, I'm not sharing until the episode because otherwise it doesn't seem organic or authentic. So we haven't actually talked about it. We just talked about that we want to talk about it. And the topic is, is everything actually for sale? Are all of the cards in your collection actually for sale or are there cards that actually aren't for sale? And I think that this ties in with Monday's livestream, where there are some cards that I believe you're making available that you don't really want to sell, but at a certain price, I guess. Everything is for sale or is everything not for sale? Everything is not for sale, really? But yeah, there are some things that are not only because it will take me too long to find something that will take its place. So the things for me that become more available to sell is if I'm able to pick up a copy or feel like I have the ability to pick up a copy to take its place. So I would say there's very Very few of my cards that would not be for sale. First of all, a million dollars for a card, everything's for sale. Okay. Okay. So everything is for sale because you're saying everything's for sale at a certain price, you're just never going to pay my price. Yeah, certain cards. Okay, so, so, so to start, to restart, let's start that everything is actually for sale. But most things, some things, the price for what it would actually be for sale for is so much higher than anyone would ever consider paying that it's not really for sale, but it's for sale. Is that right? Correct. Right. And the more emotion I have towards the card or the harder it is to replace that card, the premium on that is going to be something that is going to make people cry or laugh at me when, when they hear the prices. Now a couple of the cards that you have for sale on Monday night, they would you say that they're, they fall into that category where they're, you don't really want to sell it, but you would let it go at a certain price. They're one step below the ones that I would not sell. Okay. So like they are ones that they're on my radar to possibly let go because a bunch of the ones that I love the most, I picked up another version of that card. But some of these cards I have searched for, for years to pick up a copy and then sometimes it took me years to find one and then it took me years to find a second one that I liked a little bit better. And for me to let that first one go, I know how hard it is to find a card like that. I'm going to give an example. One of them is like a Ted Williams Rookie. That's an SGC1, that card. I looked for years to try to find a low grade copy for it and when it ended up coming up on ebay, it came like at 9:00 clock at night. I got an alert and I bought it within like 40 seconds that I saw it. And I believe that that one and the other one that I have are the best low grade Ted Williams rookies in existence. Like that from as far as I've seen, from the, from the cards that I've seen, I've seen a lot of them. So listen, I don't need to sell that card because I love it. But I do have a replacement already for it. But it hurts me to let it go because I know how special that card is. So if somebody's willing to pay a price that is more than average prices and more than even high prices for a card like that. You know, you could take it out of my hands, but it's really only going to go to somebody that has been looking for a card like that for a very long time and they understand how hard it is to find a copy like that in low grade. And it's okay if you don't want to buy it because I'm very happy to keep it forever. Now, not to hijack this conversation in a different direction, but this is kind of what I do is we start with a starting point and then who knows where it goes? You know, you, I've heard a lot of people, not just yourself, Jay Lee has said this, you've said this, Tony Southern collector has said this. A lot of people have said something along the lines, and I'm paraphrasing that if you guys are specifically looking for low grade cards, the lower the grade, the better. In some cases that have the eye appeal or have the front appeal of the card especially that is, you know, unusual and it, it feels. And, and Mike Junk Wax Hero does this. He, he wants to get a really low grade card. I mean, he recently bought a, a mantle, 53 tops mantle and a one. And like, I feel like the fact that it was a one instead of a two actually made him happier because it was like I got a one that looks really that I think, you know, that I feel this way about or whatever. Is, is there going to come a point? Is, is the, is the difference? Is the delta between those ones and those twos or those ones and those threes? Because sometimes you'll see a two or three. It's not really that great looking, but it has a two or three and it does have qualities that are better than your normal one. Is, is there coming a point or is it already happening where there is there is going to be fewer opportunities to buy like that. Ted Williams in a one that has the appeal that that one has or is there always going to be a stigma around ones and one and a halfs and twos by some in the community where those will always be kind of available. Like what do you see the future of a card with back damage? Because. And the reason I ask is because there was a time in my collecting where if a card had back damage or if it had paper loss or if it had it was pulled out of a scrapbook or something, I never would have considered it. There was a time where I wouldn't have even bought a card that had a crazy Increase and you know, so what, where, where is that heading long term? My opinion is skewed because it's the way I collect. Okay? And I believe very strongly in, in that question that you just said to me. But again, it's my perception which is going to be skewed because I am so heavily involved in trying to find low grade, high I appeal cards and not everybody is like that. There's a lot of people that just like the grades. But the reason why Jeremy Lee and I have bonded and become such good friends, I think a lot of it has to do with this topic because I just do not care about the slab, I do not care about the grading companies. And I think that there's just valuing cards on the grades is an old school way of thinking. And to me, for myself, the newer way of thinking is I want a card that looks great more than what's on the slab. And I'm okay with certain characteristics that are going to cause the technical grade to be lower, which is perfect for me because it means the card is cheaper. Now, it might not be cheaper to people that are looking at comps because in their minds they're saying a one should be this price, a two should be this price, and a three should be this price. And again, I think that's an older way of thinking and I think that nowadays it's going on now and I think it's going to continue in a way more aggressive way for the margin, the spread, the delta, as you said, is going to increase for grades as we continue within the hobby because I think a lot of people are like me and are frustrated at PSA and SGC and the other graders out there. And I don't think that a little bit of back damage should be a 1 when the front looks like a 7. And I am more than happy to pay highest 1 prices for a card like that because it's a unicorn and I'm still paying less than a high two or a high three. And it looks better than any two or three in existence. So that's how this kind of conversation started. How I came on sports cards live is there was a PSA1 Jackie Robinson card that had a pinhole on it that I looked at every single copy, including PSA sevens, eight to nines. And I liked that copy better. And I thought that that is a I'm getting $1 million card for, I tried to get it for, for in the high 20,000 range for a PSA one, which would have been like triple highest ever. And it got swiped still ahead of that number. And I still think that that person got a bargain on that card. So that's just my way of thinking is that I think that a lot of my friends and myself are looking at cards and not being chained to the grade. And I understand why people are, because that's the way that we have over the last 20 years have evaluated our cards and these stickers and high eye appeal. And it's not a new movement. But what is a new movement is that people are okay with paying higher. And the people that are frustrated at that are the people that are seeing the comps increase. But I think what they're missing is that comps are not comps anymore. You cannot just look at an average comp and say, okay, now my 53 mantle is this price. You have to now spend a little bit of work. And it's an, it's, it's a trade. I'm not even saying it's art form. It's a trade to be able to look at the grade, look at the pictures of the other cards that have sold, and look at surrounding grades and then look at SGC versus psa. Now, when you're buying a card, you have to spend 20 minutes if it's a significant card to really figure out where pricing is instead of just looking at the average number, which I think people were doing two or three years ago. I do, I agree with you. And, and, and I think that it is continuing to accelerate, that the comp is no longer is solid of an anchor. It is, it is now becoming blurred. The, the values between a 1 and a 2 and a 3. I have said that, you know, there's something I say all the time, and I think I said it to you in a conversation not that long ago, where whenever something happens, there's sort of a reaction to it. Like, you know, right. Every action has a equal and opposite reaction. I think is like some sort of scientific thing. But there is a reaction to things that are happening in the hobby. And to me, the thing that has happened in the hobby is as PSA has grown so rapidly, whenever there's rapid growth, one of the things that you lose is you. You lose sort of your control, you lose some of your consistency. And we've seen enough cards come back that go, this is a four. This looks like a seven. And when that happens, then people start to go, wait a second, maybe, maybe these, these assigned grades are actually just an opinion and not something that is, you know, the be all and end all. I mean, Even Ryan Hogue. In fact, I, I happen to have this clip. This wasn't even planned. I gotta at least play this clip real quick. Doesn't mean it's necessarily gonna get the same grade because it's again, it's a grader's opinion and there's ranges and standards. So it could grade something differently. Just because it got a PSA 8 the first time doesn't mean it's always going to get a PSA 8. It could get a 9, it could get a 7, it could get a 7.5. So I've played that clip many times and Ryan Hogue, who I I've heard is a really good guy, but he's even saying right there, the card is not going to get an 8 every time. It could get a 7, it could get a 9, it could get an 8. But the problem with that is the card that gets the 7 one time and could have gotten a 9 is the value differential depending on what the card is, is so extreme. So when you hear the head of grading for all of, you know, collector's universe say it's an opinion, there's ranges, there's standards, it's an opinion, then what happens is when he is saying that, he is saying right there, there could be a two grade swing, it could go from an eight to a nine, an eight to a seven, a nine to a seven, a seven to a nine. What he is saying there is you guys that are using this as the be all and end all. Actually we don't even think that. And the reaction to that is you can't look at a 7 and say this is what that card is worth. Because maybe that seven actually on a different day would have been a nine. And if it would have been a nine, then when you're comping the card, you can't just use sevens as the company, it's never sold for that much before. Well, there's never been a seven that looked this good before. So I think the reaction to the inconsistencies, which are largely, I believe, new technologies being used, but also the rapid growth, the new gradiers, the, the this, it's just hard to stay standardized. It's hard to stay standardized when you have rapid growth. And that's the same thing for a fast food change, you know, any, it's, it's just, it's hard for anything. Your thoughts? So, I mean, man, we are going as off topic as could be based on what our original topic was. But I like this topic too. So, you know, it's just great. The way that the reason why there are grades is we're trying to determine how new the card looks. Right. And that is that the reason for grading? I mean grading is really technically trying to see how pack pulled and printed nicely and centered a card looks. But like is from its original state. Right. Like a card that's a 10. I know that not even a card that's packed pulled might not get a 10 because of centering or a print defect. But if it was centered and didn't have a print defect it would be a 10. Right. If it was packed pulled perfect condition. Do you agree with that? If it didn't have a print effect or off centering. Yeah. So I think we're changing the opinion of, of what you. I, I think it yes. What I believe that a 10 is is a card that was manufactured perfectly and was never damaged after the manufacturing. And that's PSA's definition of a 10. I think one of the things that happened is when PSA was setting their standards for what is a one, what is a two, what is a three all the way through is when they were listing those standards years ago. I, I think to a certain extent some of their. There were some oversights. There were some things that they didn't consider that maybe could have been or should have been considered. Like why does a pinhole automatically make the card not get higher than what, what is it, a 1.5? Like it can't get higher than a 1 or a 1.5. It has a pinhole. Like would that still be true today? You know? You know another question is like why should it have had a qualifier? Should it, should it be a qualifier of this is a nine with a pinhole. It's a pinhole nine which is different than a one. You know, a one could be a car, a card that looks like it went through the trash compactor. You know, so I, I think that enough has arisen. A backstamp like SGC won't give it if it has a stamp, they won't give it above a two. But I have a Thomas Edison N76 card that looks like a five, four and a half but it has a backstab. I like the back stamp. So that was actually an opportunity for me. We're way off course and I'm okay with that. I want to go where the wind blows. And this is making comments about what you're saying though, right? About PSA standards. Right. So part of what makes those high graded cards worth so much is because of the rarity. Right. And for condition rarity. Conditions rarity, exactly. And for me, the condition rarity is actually not as impressive to me as the rarity of a card looking with great eye appeal that doesn't have the condition rarity. Okay. And condition rarity to me also means this is kind of like the Mookie influence a little bit, is that it's an unloved card. Right. We have to remember that there were no ways to protect cards until the late 70s and early 80s. Okay. There were no binder pages until that time. There were no top loaders. So any card from the 20s to 50s that has extremely sharp corners is a card that was forgotten about. Right. Or altered. Right. One of the two. It was either forgotten about or altered. And some of the best looking cards are ones that were put into a scrapbook because they weren't played with. So now I have a feeling a lot of those cards had back damage and have been altered or some version of doing something to it to get that off, which makes it look so good. Which is why also I believe that a lot of these high graded cards are not even as packed pulled as you really think that they are. So again, to pay a million dollars for a card versus one that has a lower grade, that might be $5,000 and one that I think looks amazing and also was loved, I like that card better than the card that looks absolutely perfect, because that is. It's. It's kind of like a non. It's. It's just not a card that should be around. And maybe that's saying scarcity. But it's also a little sad because the only way that that could have happened is if it was like put away somewhere, never touched, never rolled around. I mean, the only way people were putting their cards, they either put it in a rubber band, they put it in their drawer, they put in a box, cigar box, food box, shoebox. And they didn't have that many because they were buying one pack at a time. So they were loose in there. So for a card to have all four perfect corners, it's almost impossible. And the only way it could have done that is if somebody put it somewhere, forgot about it, left it, and never touched it again. So that's the card that we're gonna pay a million dollars for, doesn't really have the same story as other cards. Even though I'm not trying to. For people that collect that way, that is not. Here's where we go. I know. I'm not trying to say that you're Wrong. Okay, everybody. I love the way you all collect my notes. My notes. Somebody see, somebody is listening. Let me finish that, Let me just finish that. And then you talk as long as you want. I just want to say that I'm okay with everybody doing things different and I rather you collect different than me because it means my cards are more expensive if everybody felt the same way as I do. So I'm just saying when I'm talking like this, I am not talking for the hobby. I'm talking for myself personally. And I respect everybody who does collect that way. And I'm actually, when I look at them, I can see the appreciation and love of somebody that is able to find and afford cards that are like that too. Okay, sorry. And that's one of the things I, I, I love about the hobby too. But there are a lot of people out there that are listening to this right now saying, you're wrong, you're full of, they're saying you're full of crap. David. If you could have a pack pulled, you know, 1952 tops, Willie Mays, and that's perfectly centered, you would prefer that over the one that has rounded corners. And you are just saying this because you can't actually get that one. And there are other people out there that are saying a perfectly razor sharp card that's off center is better than the perfectly centered card with rounded corners and on and on and on. I mean, there's a million different variations of what could be the defect. And I, I don't mean that in a negative way. What could be the, the love that is shown on a particular card? I can tell you this like, I have friends that collect all different ways. I have friends that collect because it's autographed, they want it. The condition doesn't matter. I have friends that want cards that are perfect looking and having any, if it was forgotten, perfect, because that means it's still in really good condition. There are all these people out there who have different ways of doing it, but some of the people out there who have a different way of doing it than you get angry at you and say, David, you're wrong. That's not a card that looks like a 7 on the back but has back damage. But it has back damage. It has, it is scarred on the back, David. And the backs of the cards matter too. If the backs didn't matter, why did they print the back? And, and so the back doesn't matter. But, but I love the backs of cards. You're wrong for doing that. You're an idiot, David, is what they would say. Why is it that we can't have a different level of what we like and what we don't like without somebody being wrong? Like, why do the people who don't like psa, why are they angry at people who use psa? Why are the people who like raw, why do they get mad at the people who like their cards graded? Why do people who hate soaking get so mad at the people that are okay with soaking? Like, why can't we just all exist in the same space and. And not be wrong? People get mad if you say, I care about the value of cards. People get mad if they say, I'm willing to sell some cards to get this other card I never thought I'd be able to acquire. They get mad about it. Why do people get mad at other people? Because you participate in the hobby differently. Like, why is that? It's a great question and I don't really understand that mindset either. I like hearing people's other opinions. I like hearing people that collect different than me and it helps shape the way that I look at things. I used to care about facts too, and I don't know where I picked it up along the way, but I eventually got to a point that I stopped caring. Maybe I heard somebody talk about it, but it helps me evolve in my collecting style when I hear that. And, you know, it's one of these things where it is very easy to combat people, especially people that are talking heads like us online and, you know, giving our opinions. But a lot of the problem also has a little bit has to deal with us too, because the way I talk about it, I probably do kind of talk about it as like, this is the way. But in reality it's my opinion. It's just annoying to have to say this is my opinion after every sentence that I'm saying. So it makes it kind of seem like I am saying it that way, but just in reality for everybody to know. Like, I. I never talk bad about the way other people collect it in, in their version of it. I like that people collect different than me. I wish less people collected my way. And because it allows me to find the cards that I like for cheaper prices and I'm not going against them in my prices. So I'm just giving opinions. It's probably not even good for me to even give these opinions on shows like this because if somebody does start to agree with me, it's going to increase the value of the cards that I'm trying to purchase. But Put that off. Let me hop on, on something real quick before I wrap up. I want to address one of your other things. After you, though. So I did a video a couple of years ago. So I do, on my channel, my home channel, Midlife, that I do Wednesday Q&As and, and I don't skirt any questions. I, I talk. If you want to hear my opinion on something, if you want me to bring up a topic and discuss it, I'll talk about anything. I don't want to get into politics, I don't want to get into religion, because those things tend to be divisive. But pretty much anything else I'll talk about. And somebody asked a question to me wasn't my topic. I didn't bring it up about modern versus vintage and how, why they were so different, why the two sides were so separate. And all I did was share my thoughts on the topic. I, I, I didn't think we should be on different ends of the spectrum. I just simply shared my thoughts. And one of the analogies I used was, I remember I was a downhill skier up in Lake Tahoe when I was younger, and then all of a sudden snowboards popped up. Like, I remember when snowboarding got popular, I was like in 6th, 7th, 8th grade is when it really sort of became a thing in the, I guess that would be the late 80s and early 90s. And, and I was like, yeah, it's like the snowboarders are mad at the skiers and the skiers are mad at the snowboarders. But, but we all just like going downhill in the snow. But, but a lot of people, I got so much heat, I had multiple different channels make a video literally attacking me because I even brought the topic up, which I didn't bring up. It was somebody's question that I was responding to and that I was dividing people into categories. And, and I'm the opposite of that. I actually, I've said many times that whether you collect modern or you collect vintage, that we have way more in common than we have different. But for whatever reason, I had people that I'm friends with reach out to me and leave comments and text me and say, you blew it on this one. Like, you really are trying to divide us. And I'm like, what, what topic was it? I missed that. What was the topic that basically vintage collecting versus modern collecting. Okay, got it. Yeah. And, and I wasn't even taking a stance. What I was doing was responding to a question that somebody brought up as to why, why there is tension there. And I don't think there should be tension. I think we're very similar. But the people who collected, who collect Modern, a lot of people who watched my channel, watch my channel, that collect Modern, they felt like I was attacking Modern in my response. What I was trying to do is explain the difference between modern and vintage. And they saw it as like. Well, I think the reason it's different is people see it differently is because, well, this is kind of what vintage collecting is like and this is kind of what modern collecting is like. And they felt like I was a vintage guy that was kind of going after Modern and they were pissed at me. And that couldn't be further from what my actual opinion is. I mean, people called me out by name in response videos telling me that I blew it. And I'm okay with that. If I did come across as somebody saying anything divisive, because I'm the opposite of that. I don't care how anybody collects. I don't care if you like serial numbered cards. I don't care if you like pre war turn of the century cards. I think it should be Kumbaya. We're all on the same team. We just have a different appreciation for things. But it's interesting that sometimes the intent of what we're trying to say also might be different than the way that people receive it. And sometimes people receive it differently because of previous, you know, conversations or experiences that they've had, that they're in a different place so they hear the same words one way. Then maybe somebody else might receive them. I, I don't even know. I mean, at this point, we're com. I'm completely on the couch on the. This at the psychiatrist. I don't even. What do they call those guys? Or I'm laying on the couch. Talk to Dr. Chase. I got. Is that what it is? Because I feel like. I feel like Will Hunting and I'm talking to Robin Williams at the moment. So tell me where you grow up, Greg. You wanted. I want to address something about what you just said right there, which I think is kind of interesting. And then we're going to go to our car pitches for each other. No, I have to. You. You didn't even let me respond to the first question that we were going to discuss. But that's fine. Anybody that is annoyed at Greg Miller, okay. Who I play Mr. Rogers because you are so not offensive in any way. Okay? So anybody that gets offended over what Greg Miller says, I mean, you need to really look at yourself in the mirror and really, of Anybody in hobby content. You're the one that is as non aggressive as anybody else. And you haven't watched, you haven't watched my Wednesday Q and A yet today, have you? This, we're recording this on Wednesday, July. Well, the person you've been most aggressive with is me about your Oreo conversation. Is there a new one that you asked about the 52 tops? Jackie and I let people know exactly how you work work so well until today. Greg was not aggressive but you know, I've all really the show, I mean it's, it's unbelievable that I've become friends with you, which I've loved. Midlife before this and Sports Cards Live. I was like the biggest fan of both of those channels before I even got involved. And what I love about that is I love going through topics that are a little prickly, that are a little bit taboo, that some people are a little bit nervous to discuss and to give opinions. And you know what? Sometimes when we have to give these opinions, there's going to be a lot of people who dislike that exactly what you just said because they just have different opinions as us. And there has to just be a point where you have to care a little bit less about that because or you would never be able to discuss these topics. You know, Mike Baker stickers and soaking of cards and alterations and, and selling when people don't want you to do any of those kind of items. I mean you have to have these kind of conversations and we have to give opinions and there's going to be people that really dislike it. But for me, I feel like those people have to really take a look at themselves and just wonder why it's so aggressive that you have to be annoyed about it. Because everyone's just, you know, giving a different side take what they have. You don't have to agree with them and, and just move on with your life the way that you want to do things. I want to address one thing though, which I know you're trying to move along. You mentioned like, you know, some people would say to me if I could afford a pack pulled card that's high grade that I would go for it. I wouldn't. It's not my style and it's just I'm, this is me personally compared to other people. I am not flashy in any way. Okay. I'm not somebody that likes to dress up. It's like painful for me. I had to dress up for a funeral recently. It was like the first time I had to wear a tie in two years and it was super annoying. I drive a Toyota. I have never bought a flashy piece of jewelry. Okay. Or a watch or anything like that. If I made 10 times the amount of money that I have, I would not be driving a Ferrari, okay? I'd still be driving a Toyota. So that's also represents the way that I collect a little bit. And I'm not saying, I mean I have some expensive cards, but I like the ability to find these treasures of lower grade cards that have a technical grade that's lower, that is a, is more affordable for that card by the way that it looks. And I really enjoy that game and I really, I really believe that If I made 10 times the amount of money that I do now, I still would not be going for those more expensive, higher graded cards. My quick response to that and then we'll, we'll do our whole recommends thing. I respect the people who want to collect the pristine cards, but when I collect an old card, I want it to look old. If an old card that looks too nice looks too nice to me. And, and to me, like I kind of collect in that two to three and a half range with like my pre war stuff. I have, I have a black beard in a five, which is a really high grade for a card from the 1800s. And, and that one, for whatever reason, those cards, I like trying to upgrade them. And, and it's a different kind of treasure hunt. But like my T206 cards, like, I like the rounded corner, I like a touch on the corners. I like a little bit of toning. Like I'm cool with that. But, but, but that doesn't mean that the person who wants the high grade stuff is wrong. I think that's great too. I have an appreciation for that, but it's just not for me. Exactly. All right. As we do each and every episode is you recommend a card to me now when you're recommending a card, are you recommending it to me? Are you recommending it to the world? I am only recommending it to Greg Miller. Okay. Okay, got it. Are you not doing that? Are you recommending it to the world? Well, I, the things that I'm sharing are things that I think that, that anybody could find love from, including you. But, but I don't know, I'm, I'm not just recommending them to you. I guess we're playing this game a little different. Okay, well, all right, buddy. Greg. I was making it all about Greg, so that's fine. That's why I like it so Much. Here we go. Chase recommends. His recommendation for this episode is an Andre the Giant card with an afro. Tell us about it. This is a little different of a car that I usually recommend for Greg and I've been trying to do sports cards the whole time. But I just, I thought of this card recently and I think that it's a Greg card. Even though you wouldn't think it would be because it is not beautiful and Greg likes his beautiful cards. And Andre has a fro. He has gingivitis in this picture and he looks a little bit like a mess. It's 1982 Wrestling All Stars. These are. This is kind of like the first mass produced set of wrestlers. And it has some big cards in the set. There's Hulk Hogan, which a lot of people consider as rookie. There's a Ric Flair and then there's Andre the Giant. Cool thing about this Andre the Giant car is it's card number one in the set. And they're cheaper pieces of cardboard. So it is hard to have this in nicer condition. I don't think you need one in nice condition for this to be a cool card. It's not really his rookie card. There's some weird Japanese cards and hand cut cards that are a little bit before this, but this is the first mass produced. Kind of like the 33 Gowdy Garrig and under The Giant is cool, right? Like, you know, when we grew up, because Greg and I are similar ages. WrestleMania 3, which I did not see live, that was one of the greatest matches of my childhood. When Hulk Hogan body slammed on. I watched it live. You watched it live? So you were very young when you watched it live? For me. What year was that? I'm gonna guess probably around 83 ish. 84. You can look that up as I'm talking. And I didn't watch it live. What I did is I rented 87. I was 8 years old. I was gonna say it wasn't 83. I wouldn't have remembered it. Got it. So it was 87. Okay. So I was. I was nine years old. So I ended up. I would walk over to my video store, Four Star Video, and I would rent that video. And I rented it like three or four times. Like when I had friends that were over, I would sometimes rent it. And I one time was late and they told me that it was going to cost $20 if I didn't return it. And I thought to myself, $20? I don't. This was before Internet. I didn't know how to buy that video. So I just literally paid them the $20 and kept the video. So I still have a VHS copy from Four Star Video that I stole that I paid for. But still. But that match was so cool. And I used to watch it over and over again in slow motion where Hulk Hogan, he doesn't just like jump in and do it. He picks him up and it is a pretty amazing match. Other thing about Andre, what do your daughters think of the movie the Princess Bride? Greg, we love the movie. And him, him climbing up the side of the cliff carrying them is. Is an epic scene. So Andre is not just a wrestler. He's in one of the most beloved movies. My son, I showed it to him like two years ago. Loved it. It's a movie that will go on for generations to generations. Andre is cool. He has some amazing stories of him drinking like 70 beers in an evening that watch the documentary from 30 for 30. I just think it's a very cool card. It's like, it's a card that you can get for a few hundred dollars in lower grade. And I just think it's kind of a fun card that's a little wrinkled to your collection. What's your thought? When I was a kid, I had two of the WWF like characters. They're like the hard rubber, like, you know, character things. I had two. One was Hulk Hogan and the other one was junkyard dog. And I. About four years ago at a card show, I found in a box a junkyard dog from this collection, which I believe the card is purple, if I'm not mistaken, and for a very good deal. And I ended up selling it. And it's a. It's one of the cards I kind of regret selling because it was a very cool card. This is a cool set. Andre the Giant was the villain, you know, when growing up. So everyone didn't like Andre the Giant. But it's one of those things where when you get older and you kind of appreciate it. I actually really like Andre the Giant, you know, which was. He's like, you know, one of the biggest humans ever in. Anyway, I. I like the pick. I think it's a fun pick. I think it's a nostalgic pick. I like it. I think it's cool. If you, if you were walking by the national and you found one that was relatively affordable, lower grade, would it be something that you'd consider picking up? I don't. I don't think it would be an affordable to the point where I would actually do it. If I saw A decent copy of that for a couple hundred bucks, I'd pick it up, but I don't know if that's even possible. I think it's like 300 in like low grades and maybe like up to 4 to 500 in like threes and fours. At least the last time that I looked at that. It. The nice part about this card is it hasn't increased in value significantly. So it's not one you have to pick up right away, but it's just kind of a fun card. Okay. All right. My pick for you and the world now. Not just for me, Greg, make it about one of the. You know, I, I recently had a video or a Q A where somebody said, why are Tris speaker cards so affordable compared to Ty Cobb? When you look at Ty Cobb versus Tris speaker, and they're, they're actually relatively similar players. Rogers Hornsby. Now, Rogers Hornsby is an interesting character because he, his. He started playing right after the T206 set, right after the 14:15 Cracker J. Not in a couple of those all time big sets. And then, you know, we go into World War I and all of the cards are kind of. Cards are kind of sparse and because all the resources were going toward the war effort. So the cards that are out there of him early on are kind of, they're black and white, which I don't mind, but some people do. There's. They're just not widely distributed. And to me, the best Rogers Hornsby card, even though he's obviously thought of as one of the best hitters of all time, he's fielding. But I just love this card. And, and the card on the screen is an SGC 3, 1933 Gowdy, number 119. He has two cards in the set. This is my favorite of the two cards in the set. This is actually my copy of the card. This is, this is my example. And you know, Rogers Hornsby batted over 403 times. In addition to that, he batted in the 390s a couple of times. So he batted either in the 390s or 4 hundreds. And this is not in the 1800s. This is not even in the 1900 to 1910s. This is. All of this took place after 1915, which is as things were really kind of ramping up a little bit. So hitting in the four hundreds there then is a little bit different than hitting in the 400s, you know, in, in 1901. And I think it's a beautiful card. I think it's a guy who is Widely overlooked. I think it's a. A card that I. I love the yellow, I love the red. I love the 33 Gowdy set. There have been a few times where I've looked at this card and I've gone, should I let this go to put it into one of these bigger cards as like ammo and card equity? But I just can't because I love it. I love this card. I wrote down a couple of things. He won two MVPs. You know, he played for a whole bunch of teams and he had a fairly long career. But I think that this card is. Is one of the cards that people in that are pre war collectors really should consider adding to their collection because it's an all time great. It's a beautiful card and it's relatively affordable. Mine in a three, this is like a 900 card. It's. It's not a crazy expensive card, but to me it's a significant card and a. A card that stands out in a collection. Great. So over the last few years, this card was on my list. And what I like about this card is also that it's from the 33 Gowdy set, as you said, which is one of the most iconic sets of all time. And you know, for the Gaudi sets, it really goes the Ruth's, the Garrigs. And then I think that there's a couple of cards that are at that next level, which for me is like the Mel Art card, which I love. The scowl. Yeah. And I think this is very similar kind of to that card. But I mean, the, the only thing that. That makes me not have that at the top of my list right now is that I have consolidated out of a lot of cards that are kind of like that. I actually sold that Mel Ott card that's part of that set. And I regretted it and I bought a new one because I liked it so much, and I regretted Sign one of the few cards that I sold and bought again, that Hornsby is also there. It's always on my mind when I go through a case and I see it. I'm always looking at it because I'm trying to find like a beautiful version of it. And I do like it, but it also, sometimes I feel like it falls into the field of cards that I'm sometimes consolidating out of to try to buy something else. But that's nothing against this card. I really, really like it. And I would not be surprised if I bought that card within the next couple years. And the thing about it too is, you know, I like the, the fact that he's, he's fielding a ball as an infielder because it reminds you that he's an infielder because a lot of the all time great hitters are outfielders. And the fact that, you know, he played middle infield, was largely a second baseman, it, it kind of reminds you of that fact, which is one of the intriguing things about him. If you're making your all time lineup, you know, each position, I mean, he's on the short list, you know, for middle infield or second baseman, you're like, I might go. A lot of people would pick Rogers Hornsby. I think if you look at stats, I don't think it's even a question. He's the number one, one second baseman. Right. All right, final thought before we shove off. I'm excited to do another live with you on Monday. We're gonna have a great time doing the Midlife Card show. Is that what we're calling it? Yeah, original name. I like it and I'm excited to do that. We're gonna have a good time. Hey, hanging out twice in one week, by the way. Greg and I, when we usually have like a phone call, a lot of times we have it like on weekend mornings and we go on for sometimes like this last one that we had, I feel like it was like an hour and a half and at the end of the conversation I was like, man, that would have been a great podcast. I feel like we, I think that every time we talk because we just go into subjects and we're bantering and having a really fun time. So this is just like us talking normally, literally like how we do these things, which is really fun. 100%. Well, thanks as always. Always a blast. Again, you can find us here on the Sports Card Clubhouse every other Saturday, unless we are covering for Mike and do two weeks a row, but it's normally every other week. So I appreciate you, buddy. Good time as always. So sorry we hardly talked about our actual original question, but it is what it is. That's, that's just the spontaneity of it. And it's not going to be anything scripted. It's just where, where the wind blows is, is where we go.