Beckett shutoff, National Thefts & Rubin 5x-10x Hobby E397

I started Ornod in 2013 and we make bike apparel. The best part of Shopify for me is our ability to run the business as essentially non technical people. We're able to admin everything on the back end, front end and sell things online easily. If Shopify were a bike accessory, I think it would actually be the bicycle. It's the thing that you do the thing on. We run the business on Shopify. So start your free trial on shopify.com. Good morning sports cards, fans and welcome back to Hobby Hotline on four collectors. My name is Dan. I have a channel right here, but I am joined by esteemed panel today. Lauren, it is nice to see you this morning. You and I have actually never been on Hobby Hotline before, but of course we've communicated many times in the Hobby Hotline chat. So good morning to you. How are you? I am good. I'm happy to be here with you and Chris and I think we got some good topics to get into. So it's going to be a good morning. And Chris, how are you doing? All right. I'm pinch hitting for another Hobby Hotline host who Goldin make it today. Well, that's what we do. That's. I think that's kind of my job. That guy that comes in in the seventh or eighth inning, you're behind, you got a man on base. They bring in the left hander out of the bullpen and you bring the lefty off the bat off the bench to face him. Well, there you go. I. And yes, let's keep rocking in the free world there, Bob. So I, I did not Whatnot the National. Laura and I were just discussing this a short time ago, but both of you did, both of you were on the, the big stage and I, I saw the picture. Very nice stage this year. Yu-Gi-Oh we had like actual cushion comfy chairs. Yu-Gi-Oh Kind of went all out. So that's pretty good. There you go. One thing I did notice, Chris, is that you're a very tall man. Yes, I am. I am a very large man. I'm six three. Six three. I Yu-Gi-Oh about 275 pounds. I'm six one. So if I stood next to you, you'd make me look small, which is a rarity in my life. But one-of-one so let me, let's go over and say hello to the chat this morning. Phil Pye was here already before we even opened. Asked who our guests were, talked about the Beckett shutdown, which we will be talking about. And I answered him. Chris and Lauren. No. Uncle Rich. Yes. Sorry. Uncle Rich and I have done many shows together. He's usually on with me. And. And it's a. And it's wonderful, but not his time. Uncle Rich is one of my guys, and he's definitely one of our. Our guys. Missed him at the National. He didn't Whatnot Good morning to Mad City Brew. Yank me card. Steve. Hello from Tucson. I assume that's Tucson, Arizona. Yu-Gi-Oh red light 343. Good morning from the crane. I don't know what that means. The crane. You guys know Peter B. Good morning. Oh, the great Bob. Bob Boozle is here. That is a. That is a good piece of information. Pastor Craig, how are you, sir, this morning? Dan, you are everywhere. Just watching E95. E96. I just put it up, Larry. It just went up at 10:30. I appreciate looking at my videos. Don't. The moment they go up. Sports guru 17. Good morning, everyone. Good morning to you, sir. Able in Vegas. Good morning, baseball card curmudgeon. What's up, fellas? No, it's not fellas. We got Lauren. Fellas is gender neutral. I'll accept the NFL. There he is. John Keating. I will see you at the Philly show, I hope, sir. We're gonna have a lot of people around, so you better come this time. I guess I should explain the background. This is what we call a door. Kind of like a mid 19th century French Renaissance door. This is called a bare wall. And behind me is just a pile of sheets and blankets because this is the Zebra bedroom and we have no place else to store it. So that explains my background. We need to get you a framed photo of the public transit to Atlantic City. The train? Yes, the Atlantic City train. So there you go. Yu-Gi-Oh I didn't even know there was a train to Atlantic City until this moment. I've only ever driven there. And I was at the National. Were you guys at the National? It's literally right next door. The train stations of the convention center. Really? Well, I came first. Started on the water. I came from the water. The next time the nationals in Atlantic City. You don't have to stay in Atlantic City. You can stay in Philadelphia. You could stay in Sherry Hill. There's a very nice hotel within walking distance of the train station there. So Red light has confirmed that he is, in fact, working in his crane. Be safe, sir. Good morning from the greatest. Wait, John, you're in New York? John, if you're in New York, you should. You should visit with me. So we clarified that. I. I don't even want to start Deanne Chart. Yu-Gi-Oh I collect it. 2439. Good morning. Good morning to you. Good morning to Joseph Confluence Sports Cards. Perfect timing. Just got done mowing. Well, I live in New York City, so there's no mowing. Good morning to BK Sports Card Stories. Phil Pie, we've said hello to you already. Cooter Lev is here. Hey, sir. How are you? There we go. See, this is the story. It. It would. It would detract. Yu-Gi-Oh from us concentrating. My shtick. From you. Yu-Gi-Oh All right, well, I think she. She already said that. Let's see. I think we're. We're done with saying good morning to the chat. Is everybody here? Yes. Oh, there we go. TJ is here. Tony. How are you, sir? Tony, who I got to meet at National. Yes. Well, you were lucky. One of the best guys around. He helped me do an interview with Love of the Game auctions on my channel that went up on Friday morning. And Tony is, of course, one of those guys who not only a good guy, but also has tons of knowledge. So bringing him in to that situation was. Was advantageous for me and for Love of the Game, which closes, by the way, on Saturday night. And I am in it. Officially in it. So we'll see what happens. So we. We have three topics to discuss this morning. The first one, I guess, you know, you. You can't do a hobby hotline without talking about grading, so we're gonna. We're gonna go to this. And of course, you bring in the panelist that doesn't get his card created. Well, to be fair, I have never actually submitted to Beckett. I've submitted to SGC many, many times and to PSA a few times. But I. I guess, Lauren, you would be the person to ask, since neither Chris nor I have ever submitted to Beckett. Have you ever submitted to Beckett? I. I don't think we have. I. I have, like, a long story about, you know, a card that I sent to PSA that was a 10, got damaged in. In their sealing process, and blah, blah, blah. So I. I prefer Beckett because I like that they tell you, like, how you got to that grade. So I, I, I would. I really. My number one is sgc, but I do like Beckett, and then PSA is way down at the bottom, so. So I'm glad. I'm glad it isn't the other crisp. So, Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh I. I mean, I guess the big picture here and, and, you know, Phil PI. Whoops. Couple people came in. Where was Phil P. There it is. Okay, screwing up something. Let's buy Our competitors and totally mess it up. I don't know. I mean, if anything has come of the purchase of Beckett by PSA or Collector's universe, it's that Beckett seems to have gained in. In the hobby. Their numbers are up, and I think maybe their reputation is up because they would. They. They went through a spell there, which John. John Keating mentions here. There was a point where Beckett kept screwing up. Beckett Grading. I'm not talking about Dr. Becky, but Beckett grading was screwing up all sorts of PR stuff, including this new logo they released at the Atlantic City, which I. You know, I. I was there and. And saw it and. And then they just never did anything with it. But at this point, I kind of feel like they're doing okay. And shutting down is the. The new. Is the new black, so to speak. You know, TAG is shut down and. And PSA shut down. And who else? Somebody else did, too. Rest. Beckett. Beckett and Tag. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh This Monday.com ad was created by a team of people and Yu-Gi-Oh agents. Reese, our content agent, wrote the copy based on our best practices, like mentioning Monday.com three times. Johnny, our coordination agent, built the timeline and kept everyone aligned. Olivia, our human creative director, stayed in the loop because agents are great, but they don't always know when a joke lands. She had one note. Tell listeners it only takes minutes to build an agent, so minutes. Create your own Yu-Gi-Oh agent. Today on Monday dot com. Ch. Ch. Ch. Chumba Looking for excitement. Chumba Casino is here. Play anytime. Play anywhere. Play on the train. Play at the store. Play at home. Play when you're bored. Play today for your chance to one-of-one and get daily bonuses when you log in. So what are you waiting for? Don't delay. Chumba Casino is free to play. Experience social gameplay like never before. Go to Chumba Casino right now to play hundreds of games, including online slots, bingo, Slingo, and more. Live the chumba life@chumbacasino.com. no purchase necessary. VGW Group void where prohibited by law. 21/ Terms and Conditions apply. As someone who went to the national, the lines of the PSA were out. Were ridiculous all week. Same thing with bgs. Same thing with cgc. FGC was a ghost town all week. Yu-Gi-Oh I. I kind of felt. I kind of felt sorry for. Because if you wanted to get your cards graded and didn't care which card grader did it, you can get your cards, I'm pretty sure, graded quickly. At sgc, there. There were no lines. I have a theory as to why this is when I was last on Hobby Hotline. A couple of weeks ago, I mentioned that about two thirds of the cards being graded were TCGs, and that was crowding out a lot of the sports cards being submitted. So I have a theory that a lot of sports card collectors were waiting for the national to sub their cards, hence the long lines at psa, the long lines at cgc, and the long lines at Beckett. So that's my theory about it, and I'm sticking. Oh, SGC didn't do onside. Okay. That. Yu-Gi-Oh I. I did not know that. They should have. They made a killing. I'm sorry, Laura, go ahead. They. They should have. They would have made a killing because PSA and Beckett shut down. They, you know, every. Like, I think what Chris said is right. I think a lot of people were saving and waiting for the Nationals so they could get it back quickly. And some people who submitted their card, they weren't going to get it back. Like, they had the expectation they'd get it back by Sunday. And PSA had to tell them, like, I think it's going to be longer than that, which is a subject in and of itself that we didn't talk about. But it. I mean, it was part of the whole grading landscape at the National. I have a submission at SGC and it was submitted. I mailed it out on April 16, three or four days after I got back from Strongsville. And it has a lot of Strongsville cards in it. And here I am, the National's over, the Philly show's coming up, and. And I still don't have it back. It went into what it called post grading, which used to be post grading. Next day in the mail, got your cards back, right? Postgrading now is like a couple of weeks. So now I'm like, I might not even get this back, like, before the end of August. We'll see what happens. But that's. That's going to be like four to four and a half months door to door for sgc, which, frankly, is going to kill their business, because one of the things that they offered as an alternative to the other ones is that they were fast. They were fast. Their customer service was good. Their grading is good. My last submission with them took three months door to door, and the grading was good. And I said, I did a whole video and I said, I don't know if I'm still going to grade with them. I'm probably going to do one more, but maybe not. And here we are. And they've. They've, you know, they're pushing me In a situation where I don't, I can't have cards out for four and a half months. I'm 62 years old. I don't have four and a half months for this mission, you know, but one-of-one I, I think your points are well taken, Lauren. And I think that ultimately something's got to give because if everybody's closed and you know, even, even CGC is now saying four to six months for returns, which is crazy. If CGC and SGC are pushing out three, four months, that's, that's absurd like that. That's just so wild. They. I, I don't know. I know. I'm sure it's a complicated, you know, situation. And, and, you know, like Chris said, a lot of tcg, which not a lot of us are familiar with. So, you know, for the sports cards to be feeling the impact of TCG is interesting, but also not our problem. And the grading companies have to come together and figure it out. They, they have to because we have certain expectations. And for SGC to take you, you know, from April to now, you still don't have your cards. That's wild for them. That is the thing that they are best known for. And Yu-Gi-Oh they, I mean, they're all kind of in the same boat, which is, you know, counterintuitive when you have options. You know, that's kind of not how this is supposed to work. So, so Genesis, here, buy your car. It's already graded. That's one solution. The other solution is Mag pros, graded car one touches, etc. I love a good knack. I really do. Whole stack of them, because that's what I've been doing lately for four and a half months. I, I didn't stop buying cards, but I stopped grading cards. And, and I put them in my, my one touches and, and they look perfectly fine, some of them, you know. And the other thing I did a thing. I, I did a thing on another show that I do where I said the freedom not to grade is something that I'm feeling, you know, particularly cheerful about that. I don't feel like I have to grade every card now. And, you know, a card comes in and I know it's, you know, it's an old. I do a lot of vintage. I know a lot. A lot of my cards are ones or ones and a half, one and a half or whatever. So I will look at the card, say, this is going to be a one. Why do I need SGC to tell me it's a one, right in a mag Pro, I don't have to wait four and a half months. I put it up on the wall or whatever and. And there we go. So I think not grading or buying cards that are already graded are probably the, the solutions that they're pushing us into with this one. And another solution is I think collectors need to realize that not every card needs to be graded Exactly. Not every 20, Topps. Base rookie slab. Right. And unless you're getting like a gem mint 10 or even a black label 10, the amount you pay to get that card graded, the. The return on that is probably at best break even. So, Yu-Gi-Oh I think a lot of folks need to learn that the heart are going to learn that the hard way. Sorry, I froze there for a second. Freedom not to grade. Yep. So the problem, of course, is that, you know, I'm not in the modern hobby and I know a lot of the modern hobby is basically run by, you know, grading cards, increasing value, selling the cards. That whole flipping mentality is something that I'm sort of foreign to and you know, it's. It's changing that landscape. And I wonder, I mean, is that something that is really going to change the way that the modern hobby acts? Thoughts? It should. I don't know if there's enough. Well, what was it that PT Barnum said? There's one born every minute. As. As long as there are people who think that they're smarter than they already, than they actually are and think that they can make money in this hobby by flipping cards, there's always going to be a demand for services like grading. So true. Yu-Gi-Oh I think, I mean, for me, I. The only time I grade is because, like, if. If I'm submitting something for grading, which is very rare, does not happen very often. It's because I want my cards to be secure. I'm a big Cocoa Golf collector and SGC was fast and they're in South Florida, I believe, so like they. The cards would come back to me quickly. They stack nicely. So like, my cocoa collection is mostly from what I've pulled or what I've acquired. Raw sgc. And it's because I am keeping those and I like them to be protected. Neat. Whatever. But Yu-Gi-Oh I think, I think people do have to kind of recognize like, like it's. It is an option, it's not a necessity. And if you're flipping, then Yu-Gi-Oh usually, you know, in order to make that extra few dollars, you know, you need the 9 over an 8 or a 10 over a 9. But I think the only, like, I Think the real two reasons that people should grade is A, either to protect their card because they want it to be, you know, kept safe, or B, they need to verify that their card is real and legitimate. And I think that, like Chris said, just, you know, throwing in a base rookie of somebody just because, you know, people are talking about it or whatever. I don't think that that's a sustainable way, obviously a sustainable way to grade. So I think people. I mean, and I'm not trying to put it back on collectors. I definitely think the grading companies have to figure stuff out. This is their service and they're not providing it properly. But I do think collectors need to be a little more discerned. Hey, before your Q3 call, I've got the campaign brief ready. 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I don't want to go on a PSA rant, but, like, they don't tell you why it gets that grade. And they also will charge you based on their perceived value of that card. And, you know, you need to be more discerning as a collector if that is relevant to you and your hobby experience. So all 100% true. And I think, you know, I. I will accept some, you know, some guilt for sending cards in that probably shouldn't have been graded, but a lot of it was. I wanted to them to be authentic. I wanted them to display, and I wanted them to be, you know, like I said, everything I collect, pretty much everything I collect is vintage. Most of what I collect these days is pre war. And so, you know, authenticity is something that maybe five, 10 years ago, I didn't really. I wasn't comfortable in my own determinations of that, but now I am. So I, I feel pretty good that I. Chris, what happened to the apartment? You had a beautiful piano there. I moved just a split second to your point, Lauren, it makes no sense to grade something where you're not adding any value. I, I feel like, you know, that's part of the reason I'm using these, this, this, this, you know, PSA1, SGC1 or in a mag. The card is worth the same and so why spend the extra 15 or 20 bucks when we'd for. one-of-one so we did have topic number two, which is depressing as heck. I'm gonna play a video. And the video starts about 30 seconds in to set the stage. Here it is a. It's a video of a theft. And it's a theft of something I believe to be about a $10,000 card. The gentleman who you'll see in a white hat and a white shirt is apparently the dealer. He's facing in a certain direction doing something. And behind him there is an older man and a younger boy who's probably in boys, probably 10 or 12 years old. The man might be his father, his grandfather or, or nobody. It could be, you know, just some guy who, you know, needed a kid to distract or whatever. But I'll play it from about 30 seconds in and, and I think it deserves some, Some. That's about all we need to see. So if you missed it there, there's a conversation between the boy and the, and the man. The man opens up the lid of the case, reaches in, grabs the card, gives it to the kid. They have a little conversation for about three or four seconds and then they leave. The dealer, who I believe the dealer is the gentleman in the white, white hat and a white shirt is facing in the other direction the entire time. And so my, my original thought of this is how freaking sad this is because there's a kid there who's this experience. You know, there are videos, there are pictures, there are close ups. Eventually law enforcement is going to find this gentleman and take action against him and this kid is going to have to deal with this for the rest of his life. And to me, that's extraordinarily sad. But from a hobby perspective, there's a couple of things. One is some of us said this before the national there's a lot of money going around. There's a lot of people. And I witnessed thefts, not didn't witness thefts last year, but had some connection with some dealers that I knew that had Been. That had been victimized. And so theft. Theft was bad last year. It was worse this year. And this is, like, the poster child of theft. And I have some thoughts, but I want to go to you guys first. Lauren, what. What. What's your, like, your initial reaction and some of your thoughts on. On what this is all about? Yu-Gi-Oh when I. When I first saw the video, my. My stomach sank because it's. It's sad and it's frustrating. And we were set up as dealers at the national, and unfortunately, that's what's on our mind the whole time. I. The only time I stepped away from our table was when I was on the hobby hotline panel and I set alarms. I Goldin get caught in a conversation. I did just have to kind of, like, wave goodbye and dip. I Goldin be gone for too long because this is the concern, and it's. It's. There's just so many things. I know a lot of people are feeling a lot of things, but it's. It's mostly just disappointing because you. You don't want to look at everybody who walks up to your table as a threat, and unfortunately, you do, because you just don't know what people's intentions are. And I am constantly just scanning back and forth, and they were so slick about it. He just lifted it up slightly, slid it out, looked at it like he was pretending to examine it, and then handed it to the kid like the kid was going to examine it. And. And then they just slid it in their bag. And, you know, it's. It's unfortunate. And I believe it was upstairs. So, like, the upstairs space is an expansion of the national and the growth of the National. And, you know, I don't know who the dealer was. I don't know those details, but, like, that might have been somebody who felt very fortunate to get a table at the National. It might have been their first year. It might. This is only our second year setting up a National. We feel very grateful that we have that opportunity to. And, you know, it is overwhelming. And. And. And unfortunately, you know, they. I don't want to blame the dealer because obviously it's not their fault somebody stole from them. But there's so many things that you have to balance as a dealer at the national, and unfortunately, not trusting the people around you is in the top five. So it's sad because it also, you know, it reinforces that what I'm doing and what Brian is doing at the table is necessary. You know, unfortunately, you know, we make great conversation with People we met a lot. We met so many great people and we had so many great conversations. But it just takes that one person that betrays your trust that, you know, will impact how you move forward. So it's, it's disheartening. I think, I think the good thing is that most people agree that's a terrible thing to do and a gross thing to do. And the fact that it spans, you know, two to three generations based on, you know, the age of the older man and the, the child, you know, I think that's very discouraging. But I think people recognizing, you know, how vast and, you know, how it could be anyone and I don't know, it's, it's a lot. I'd like to hear what you guys think also as, as, you know, vintage collectors and just people who love the hobby. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh Chris, I want to second what Lauren said about not wanting to blame the dealer or the victim here. Yu-Gi-Oh but you got situational awareness here. I mean, you gotta lock up your display cases if they're not. Yu-Gi-Oh If you're going to turn your back, you have to lock your case. You have to lock your, your stuff up. Second of all, how stupid do you have to be to steal something at the National. Everybody, everybody has one of these in their Beckett You have all of these content creators with their boom mics and camera crew filming everything. Just about every dealer should have some kind of security camera. Either their own security system or in this case, I, I guess this video was taken from the Steven center own security. You have dozens of rent a cops all over the Fleer Some of them may be taking a nap, granted. And you have some real cops around. What makes you think that you're going to be able to get away with it? To me, we, we know who these people are. Now if these people show up at another card show, especially, especially now as more and more facial recognition cameras are coming online in public places. Unless you wore like a mask or a disguise, you're gonna get caught somehow. So stealing is bad. Okay, so, Yu-Gi-Oh we need Curtis Sliwa and the. Hey, I've got the campaign brief ready. Built from last quarter's data and the competitive landscape. Approved. Oh, agents, where would we be without you? Somewhere with a lot more tabs open. Create your first Monday agent in minutes@Monday.com it is Ryan Seacrest here. There was a recent social media trend which consisted of flying on a plane with no music, no movies, no entertainment. But a better trend would be going to chumbacasino.com it's like having a mini social casino in your Beckett Champa casino has over 100 online casino style games all absolutely free. It's the most fun you can have online and on a plane. So grab your free welcome bonus now@chumbacasino.com sponsored by Chumba Casino. No purchase necessary vgw group void where prohibited by law 21 terms and conditions apply. Chris got that name of that crew though. I agree. The Guardian Angels. We need like the Hobby Angels. Just a bunch of jack dudes and flight jackets and berets just roaming the, the aisles at the National. Next. So vigilante justice, I guess it was 2024 for the National. There was that coordinated effort to steal millions of dollars of cards from the dealer named as she. So that happened. What happened after that? Because that happened I guess right before the National. It happened at the Dallas show. That was right before the Cleveland National. What happened after that was there is a, there was a concerted effort by dealers to do what all of you people have, have suggested. Lauren, Chris and the chat. Lock your cases. You have to lock your cases. And this, you know, I, I, I go to dealers, they know me, they're, they, they, they unlock their cases, they hand me the card, they're standing there looking and then I hand it back to them and they, and they lock their case again. And a lot of the dealers that I know, this is, this is what they do. And Lauren, you know, you, you said something. The fact that you and Brian are there together, working together is helpful not only just for your, you know, to work in, in a normal way, but protecting you against theft. And I think it was TJ Tony who said in the chat just now the national has to be better about giving out dealer badges so that people can, can watch for each other. And you know, if it's a husband or wife team, of course that they're going to get the badges, but you got to have somebody else. And I remember after the Dallas theft, came to the national in Cleveland and Bill Chapel, who was a renowned fantastic vintage dealer, wasn't alone. He usually works alone. He had like three other guys with him. And I'm like this is smart. You have, you have a, he had like, you know, a semi rectangle of multiple cases and he had one guy here, one guy here and him here. And that to me is the best way to, to prevent this. Lock your cases, have more eyes on it. Never turn your back when you have a $10,000 card because in an open case, again, don't want to Blame the victim. But we have to as a hobby and as. As dealers. And I do deal at local shows, and I. And I. I know what it's like to. To be on the lookout for it. We have to be vigilant about looking out for this stuff. Cameras. Yes. That's another thing that came about a little more often after the big theft in Dallas is that. That now there are cameras on tables. People have the little cameras. What do they cost? 20, 30 bucks? You know, it's like, it's worth. It's worth the investment. Right. I know that there has been a lot of theft in the Pokemon world, and those dealers tend to have more cameras. So I think that that's one of those things that maybe we learned from them is that cameras, lock your cases, extra eyes, vigilance, all that kind of stuff. And another thing, too, is that this took place in that upper level of the national, where I'm assuming that that's where they're putting all of the new dealers. That, that was the kind of the vibe that I got. You had. You had a lot of the international guys, which I thought was pretty neat. A lot of hobby deal in Europe, but a lot of newer dealers that may not have ever set up at a national before, that may not have the situational awareness to lock up their cards constantly. So very expensive. Learn. Lesson learned for one dealer, unfortunately. And, you know, again, I think that it's one of those things that it should be. Oh, thank you. It's one of those things that should be a learning lesson. Like that. Like the Dallas thing was a learning lesson, but Dallas was, you know, more than two years ago now. And more dealers come in, there's more people in the space, and people forget. But we'll see. I, I'd like for this to be a lesson. And you know, Chris, your point is, did this guy realistically expect to get away with this? I don't know if he's been arrested yet. He did get away with it, but, Yu-Gi-Oh you're going to be on camera, you know, don't worry. The Scooby Doo gang is on the case that, Yu-Gi-Oh those meddling kids will get. They'll. They'll bring him to justice. They'll pull the mask off of him. It's. It's Michael Rubin. That's a transition for our next topic. But the, The. The story is that. And Chris, you brought this up. This guy didn't expect to get away with this, but the Dallas guys got away with. And I think that where they were a lot more Coordinated. They, they were able to get the facial recognition on those guys, but they haven't been able to find that. Find them. So, you know, probably haven't shown up to a card show since this. Well, Yu-Gi-Oh they probably aren't even in the country, but there's different levels of theft, obviously. A million dollar theft versus a one single card sort of. I don't know if the guy thought this through or whatever, but, you know, he, he didn't. It didn't look like a planned, you know, organized larceny as opposed to this guy just kind of reaching in and taking it out a little different. But so less thought involved, less planning involved and less thought of the concept of getting caught. But Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, we'll see what happens. But it's sad, but it's a lesson and it should be used as. I did. TJ did say, Tony said that you can't even go to CVS and buy deodorant anymore without. Without getting into a locked case. And I thought, well, how many of the people at the national were actually buying deodorant? That's the big. They probably thought about it and then they had that barrier and they're like, you know what? This is a sign. Someone, I forget who. I might have been a breaker. They were giving away like tiny card ladder sticks of deodorant, which I thought that's who it was. Dan. Good morning, sir. I don't know. I mean, I think we will, right? We should. They would want it to be, you know, in a theft like this, where it's now gotten a lot of publicity, you want it to be known that the guy was caught. You want it to be like a deterrent to other people saying, oh, I'm just going to go in and open a case to grab a card and I'll be fine. No, you one-of-one be fine. Your picture will be all over the Internet. People will talk about you on Hobby Hotline and. And you, you will eventually go to jail. It is, by the way, a grand larceny. Well, Yu-Gi-Oh And not to get the value. The value. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh Not to get like, too lost in the weeds, but like, if they traveled there and they took this, you know, they're out of state and they traveled with it. Like, like what? You know, and it's a perceived price, but like, you know, like based on the value. Like, you know, like there's so many different levels to it that we need to know. You know, I mean, I'm nosy. I'm. I will admit it. I'M very nosy and I like to know information, but I think it's important that we know, like, what. Who it is and what the stakes are. What. What will happen if you do this. You know, I think it's important that the consequences are known. So like, we don't need to tar and feather them in like, you know, the town square, but we need to know like, what is being done to say, you cannot do this. We will not tolerate this. And, you know, these are the consequences that are very clearly laid out. So I give them the stocks. Sure. Yu-Gi-Oh Sort of tar and feathering. Right? Well, it's less messy and, you know, cheaper feather. All right. Okay. So John says no one cares. No one cares about what? I didn't get to the bottom here. Okay. No one cares about courage. Okay. I think we need to. I don't agree with you, John. I think it's very important. Take that, Mr. Keating. All right, so we do have another Topps gonna go back to the video here. Our topic is Michael Rubin and his. His second in charge, guy whose name, Mayhan, being interviewed by Sports Card Nonsense. Mike Geo and his partner whose name I forget. Jesse. Jesse. There you go. And so they. They did an interview. Sports Card Nonsense had a booth upstairs at the National. They were given some sort of media like title. And so they got to interview Michael Rubin. And it was, I have thoughts, but we'll play some video. This Monday.com ad was created by a team of people and Yu-Gi-Oh agents. Reese, our content agent, wrote the copy based on our best practices, like mentioning Monday.com three times. That was the second. Johnny, our coordination agent, built the timeline and kept everyone aligned. Olivia, our human creative director stayed in the loop because agents are great, but they don't always know when a joke lands. She had one note tell listeners it only takes minutes to build an agent. So minutes. Create your own Yu-Gi-Oh agent. Today on Monday.com it is Ryan Seacrest here. There was a recent social media trend which consisted of flying on a plane with no music, no movies, no entertainment. But a better trend would be going to chumbacasino.com it's like having a mini social casino in your Beckett Chumba casino has over 100 online casino style games, all absolutely free. It's the most fun you can have online and on a plane. So grab your free welcome bonus now@chumbacasino.com sponsored by Chumba Casino. No PURCHASE NECESSARY VGW Group VOID where prohibited by law 21 terms and conditions apply. We think the hobby shocks are and will continue to be the fabric of this hobby. And we. But we want them to do it the right way. And then breakers, look, we think breaking is a good thing. Right? It allows people accessible price points. It allows people to select the team that they want or the character that they want. Right. Without having to buy the whole box. It's really. Think about it as a group buying format. That's really what it is. And a syndicated format. And what people, I think, lose sight of is it's not the breaker that gets the card. There's a collector at the other end. Yu-Gi-Oh sure of, of that. Right? The breaker opens it on camera and everyone says, oh, the breaker pulled the card. No, no, there's a collector that got the car. So we don't say, oh, are breakers better than hobby shops or vice versa? But we think there are so many great hobby shops out there that drive the collector experience. We think there's so many great breakers that drive the collector experience, and we want to support everything that drives the collectors. Yu-Gi-Oh well, there's so much more I need to get. If. If I were. If I were really, I. I should do like a Carlos style breakdown of this video because there are so many things about this video. And I watched it last night and I laughed at times and I yelled at times. But the reality is. And I'll let you go, Chris, in a second. The reality is they're selling us a load of bowl. And it's just marketing, marketing, marketing. And this whole concept that they care about the customer and they care about the card shops is not. But one-of-one Chris, go ahead. I'm sorry. Okay, Just, just so we're on the same page, which one was Beavis and which one was Butthead? Again? All right, in all seriousness, remember when breaking first became a thing about like maybe 15 years ago? The way I remember breaking starting is that it was really. It was really among team and individual player collector. These were guys that didn't want to pay 200 for a pack of triple threat and not get anybody, not get their guy or not get their team. So they got together through the magic of the Internet and the magic of the free market. Some guy. Did we ever even find out who invented the group break? I don't know. I don't care. But some guy said, I will buy a case of this. All I want is my team and the other 2190 teams. I'll just sell for 13 30th of the price of this case. And at the end I'll just send you the cards of your. And that worked for a while and then really about 10 years ago you started seeing this other element to group it becoming this, this cottage industry where it's not just about team set collecting or individual player collecting. It. It really became almost a form of gambling. You have a lot of guys that get into group breaks that really aren't interested in the team that they get. They just hope that they get a valuable card more than their return on their investment. I mean Mayhem can say whatever he wants about group breaking. That's what it is now. It is essentially a form of gambling. And I'm, I'm hearing a lot of stories in the mainstream media about group breaking and there are a lot of folks out there that want this regulated as if it were gambling. And I don't blame them. So Yu-Gi-Oh group breaking is kind of evolved into something that I don't think its original creators anticipated. So. And the thing is too is that the manufacturers have some are kind of encouraging this with the way these products nowadays are structured. You take a typical top baseball release. This isn't really, these products aren't really even meant to be collected anymore. They're really meant to be broken. This is why we have 78 different parallels of each card. Did collectors want 78 different versions of the same card? No, but it allows some dumb group breaker on a group on a live stream to scream like a banshee when he pulls one. Same thing with a lot of these multi case hit inserts. How the heck are you supposed to collect something a 10 card insert set that's seated at the rate of like one in every 50, 60, 70 cases? You can't. So who is this really for again? It's to provide value for breakers. So when I see these guys hyping up break. Oh it, it's a great way for team set called builder. Just get the guys they want. Yu-Gi-Oh it is, but that's not what it really isn't. Well, so Lauren, I know you have thoughts. We've talked a little bit about this. I have a whole thing that I've written down, but I don't want to get into that yet. I want you to. You. I, Yu-Gi-Oh I, I just, I have so many thoughts. I know, I know one thing that we kind of. I, I've still kind of been processing but somebody said Mad City Bruce said can we pay in Fanatics cash to join a break? And they're really pushing the Fanatics cash thing. There was like a staged protest about no fee and stuff. They had shirts, they had signs they had Zebra painted the sidewalk. Like it was like some kind of like, you know, guerrilla grassroots movement. And it was basically like, if you sell on our platform, you can have Fanatics cash, and then you can put it towards whatever you want on Fanatics and in including breaks, because they have Fanatics live. And I'm. I'm still kind of processing that. I don't have like a fully baked idea of like what exactly doesn't sit right with me on that, but doesn't. And I think, you know, I know like, for Brian, he actually, he's been a collector since he was a little kid and very pretty, pretty consistently in, you know, the hobby and on the message boards and stuff. And he. And actually Alex Tressler, army atc, he used to buy into his breaks when army, when Alex was breaking like overseas, like, you know, like when he was like stationed in Afghanistan, I think I remember seeing those. Yu-Gi-Oh And like, you know, he would break it, he'd post it on YouTube and you'd go, when I was still an active YouTuber. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh And like, like Brian, one night we went through a bunch of. He was like, because he can remember. He's got like a memory like a safe. And he was like, I remember this particular break. It was this product with this person. And we went through and we watched YouTube videos from like 15, almost 20 years ago of breaks that he was a part of. And you know, he remembers the cards. And then he was able to like, look up the cards, see, like, you know, the, the provenance of those cards. And you know, that, that it's a. It's an interesting history because it's. It does feel like breaking. Just came out of nowhere and started on Whatnot. And it's basically just like gambling and it's. I don't know, I. I think trying to think of, like, how to say this, like, as. As like intelligently as possible. I think Fanatics is able to turn, you know, the head of the hobby because they are the neck. Because they have their hands so deep in everything and they, they can. I agree with you guys that it was marketing. They went up there with talking points. I know somebody said like, Reuben's sitting there slouching, like, Yu-Gi-Oh he's a billionaire, but he's trying to be like, no, I'm just a cool sport sports guy like you guys. You know, I'm just one of you. Exactly. And you know, like, okay. And then Mike Mahan is sitting there and he's like, got a Duke jersey on, but he's kind of Sitting there like a stiff boardroom guy. Like, it's a weird juxtaposition. And like, I think, you know, I, I know a lot of people said like they're catering more towards like, like the youth, you know, people love, they love Reuben because he has like an, if you're like a seven year old kid who loves sports, he has like an interesting life because you're like, he's part of partying in the Hamptons with Carl Anthony Towns and like, you know, and Tom Brady's on speed dial, like, and it's, it's, it's like a lifestyle sale kind of thing and it's a marketing thing and some of us are a little more, you know, discerning and maybe curmudgeony. And we're like not into it. We're not buying that side of it. We just want to collect cards and like connect with people and it's, it's. I think we all need to listen when they're speaking to us and have the wherewithal to know they're feeding you a line. Like they can say like, no, we, we don't, you know, we, we don't want, you know, card shops to suffer if it's not, if it's not impacting your bottom line in a positive way. You don't care if my local card shop is suffering or not, if they're getting applications or not. It, you know, like it's, it's, it's disingenuous. And I think that I, I think we do need to be a little bit more critical of them when we see these things that are basically flying in the face of what we know, what we know the reality is. So. But I would, Dan, I would really like to hear what you have to say and I'm sure you put a lot of thought into it and I'm, I'm very interested. Well, you know, how much time we have left. Take it out. There's. I would encourage anybody, you know, who hasn't watched this interview to go patch auto It's on sports card nonsense. I don't subscribe to them. I don't like them. I don't like what they do. The way that they approached this interview was to just be yes men. And there, there's no, you know, follow up questions. They ask hard questions, but they're all just really, just softballs. And it's a terrible interview from an interviewing perspective. But that being said, whatever the, the point here is that collectors, I'm sorry, Fanatics, was at the national spending almost all their time talking in this interview about Fanatics Fest, which I thought was really disrespectful. The other thing is that they kept saying they're working. They're obsessive in their work to make the experience better for collectors. They're obsessive working for collectors. And I was laughing at this because I'm thinking to myself, these guys don't give a rat's ass about collectors. They want their. Their main thing is to grow their company. And the bottom line is that is what they're obsessive about. And there was a point where they were talking about hobby shops. And they've got this description of hobby shops as tier one. And the only hobby shops that Michael Rubin could name were Burbank, who is. Is. It's a whole different story. I'm a Burbank fan. I'm a fan of. But what they're doing. But they're the most. They're the biggest, you know, card shop in the world or, or at least in the United States. He also talked about cards HQ and he talked about Tom Brady. So he had Burbank, biggest card show card shop in the country, Tom Brady and Carthage Q, which is expanding now. And they're tied in with Fanatics one-of-one so he Goldin name any other card shops. But what he did say was that he wanted to grow the card shops. He wanted them to be better. And if you can't be. There was a point where he said, if you can't be better, then get out or move get out of the way. And I thought to myself, he just told all these small hobby shops that like, if you don't do it, it's our way or the highway. And I've said this before on other channels is that the way they are manipulating hobby shops is through allocation. And somebody who actually owns a hobby shop said, we're okay with the allocation, except it's getting worse. Yu-Gi-Oh it's going to keep getting worse. And essentially what they're going to do is put all these corporate shops tier one and the rest of them are out the door. And I think hobby shops, mom and pop hobby shops are. Are on the way out the door. The other thing is this concept of breakers. I mean that. That whole thing that I played was complete none. The. The. The collector's experience is not improved by breaking. It was in the old days. What Chris was describing was that guys getting together and putting their. Pooling their money together and then getting the best stuff that they wanted out of a product that they all Goldin afford to buy individually. That's the best that breaker that breaking was. But it's not that way anymore. It's a profit making business. Used to fleece 95% of the people who buy into it because everybody except the one guy who gets the hit is a loser. So it's all losers. And people have been losing money like crazy. The stories all the time about a guy who just spent $40,000 in like two months to break and then lost all of his money and now like his wife is moving out on him or like he's now defaulting on his mortgage or whatever that stuff is happening. People's lives are being ruined by this. And these guys don't give a rat's ass. So one of the other things they talked about was getting rid of distributors. The middleman. They wanted to get rid of the middleman because they said we, we are. We distribute directly to hobby shops. And I thought to myself, you know what you just did? You just told us your ultimate plan is to basically be able to control the. The hobby and not have other people have any power at all. But you know what? You know who distributors are? The worst kind of distributors are breakers. They kept saying we got rid of distributors, but that now we have breakers. And breakers are distributors on. On speed. So lot to talk about. Sorry, I'm just ranting now. No, I love it. I love it. You're making great points. But. But TJ said this in the, in the, in the, the. The chat. And this is a thought that I had last night. We're on. We're with Simpatico with our thoughts on this. The hobby is doomed if we let these guys take it on. The modern hobby is if this is the way we're going to let it happen. And they want to control everything. They want to control card shops, they want to control distributing, they want to control allocation. Hey, before your Q3 call, I've got the campaign brief ready. Built from last quarter's data and the competitive landscape. Great. Did you include the differentiation angle the CMO asked for? Already in there. Three angles. No competitors using right now. Just need your approval. Approved. Thanks. Oh, agents. Where would we be without you? Hmm? Somewhere with a lot more tabs open. Create your first Monday agent inminutes@Monday.com. Bubba Wallace here from 2311 racing on the track. My car's look is everything. But today I'm talking about more than just paint schemes. I'm talking about my favorite games at Chumba Casino. Check out exclusives like Stampede Fury and My own King Croc Fury. It's just as wild as my car looked in Texas. With over 200 games and new ones weekly play for free at chumbacasino.com let's Chumba. Sponsored by Chumba Casino. No purchase necessary VGW Group Void where prohibited by law 21 terms and conditions apply. They want control you, your experience, what cards you get. You know, and one thing that never got talked about, you know, sports card nonsense is tough questions. The prices, the prices of boxes. There's, there's no ROI anymore. Every time you buy a box, you're losing money if you open it. And so you know, that's, that's the bottom line here is that Fanatics is growing the hobby. No, they're growing their own company. 3x or 5x 10x and it's basically taking over the hobby. I am fortunate that they don't, they don't have much control over my hobby. But you know, my hobby is, is it's pre war vintage cards. But hey, hobby shops. If the mom and pop hobby shops go away and everything becomes shiny, then that does affect my hobby. And if card shows. Fanatics Fest. They talked all about Fanatics Fest. I think they want to take over, I think they want to take over the national and we'll see what happens. That could affect my hobby all. But one-of-one I just ranted for like five and a half minutes. So sorry, guys. No, that was, that was. Honestly, you could keep going. That was great. Keep going, man. I lost all the, there's tons of comments. So one-of-one they were really lighting it up. I Goldin keep track. Yu-Gi-Oh the marketing moments. Yu-Gi-Oh I mean that, you know, the other thing is, you know, to say what he said, which was, you know, either get better or get out. Yu-Gi-Oh You know, mom and pop don't need to make a gazillion dollars. They don't need to go to the Hamptons. Right. Just want to make a living. And sometimes some of the people I know, people who own card shops, it's their, their second job or it's their retirement and they just want to, they don't even need to make money. They just want to have a good experience. Hobby's supposed to be fun. It's not all about money. And the thing, the main thing that came out of that Fanatics thing is that Fanatics thinks the hobby is about money entirely. And it's sad, but one-of-one Oh, well, Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh I think, I think, you know, because I know we've been hearing like the 5x10x thing for a few years now. And it again is marketing 5x10x the hobby. I, I mean, I think they, they can mean that in multiple ways. But like, if you want to distill it down to like the basic truth, it's a, it's a snappy phrase to say more money. We're going to enrich Fanatics and you know, Fanatics gobbling, you know, certain IP up and, and that kind of thing. I don't know. I mean, and I, you know, I understand like, you know, this is business, this is the way that the world works and stuff. But also, I don't know why they have to impose it on everyone. Like you said, Dan, some mom and pop shops, they do it just because they love it. And this is the world that they know and this is the world that they want to be in. And they don't want to 5 or 10x their shop. They don't want to modernize it in a way that is specifically catered to Fanatics. And Fanatics demands. They, you know, I think that's the hard thing. I know we've talked about this. I know Dr. Jim and I actually in the show one time talked about like, I can't comprehend some of the thoughts of certain people in the hobby because my goals are different. My goal is not to become a billionaire and to continue to enrich myself. It's to enjoy myself and to connect with people and to celebrate the things that I enjoy in a very particular way. And I can't fathom how 5x to 10x for Fanatics can be that much better, especially when we know their quality is going down. And it's very shameless of them to say that like 5x10x the hobby is going to improve everybody's experience when we know even not, you know, like just cards, we know like even their jersey quality has gone down, their customer service has gone down. Like they, you know, when you're talking 5x10x, we know what they're saying. They're saying dollar signs. They're not saying your enjoyment, your collection, your exactly experiences, your, you know, like they're not talking about like the personal tangible things. They're talking about numbers on a page. And I, I mean I know that some people don't believe that and I think that that's naive and, and I'm usually a very naive person. But it's, it's. They, I think they only want to grow the hobby if it makes them more money. And I understand that's the world they live in. But it's not a world that I have to appreciate, enjoy or endorse, I guess. So I don't know. Yu-Gi-Oh it's almost as is if, if you give one company monopoly power, then they don't have to listen to what the end consumer wants. Any crazy how that works. Yu-Gi-Oh And in the interest of full disclosure, I used to work as a antitrust economist with the Federal Trade. People know that. Yu-Gi-Oh This is a question that I think we, we discussed few, at least a few hosting of my hobby hotline hosting probably a few months ago that, you know, they, they're using allocation as a, as a manipulative tool and, and the legality of it. And I frankly think that there isn't any illegality if they say, I don't want to send anything. Because at the time I think that the, the, the story was that Burbank had only gotten like three cases of some, some new product. And it was like they had, they, you know, I can't remember the name of the guy who, who owns Burbank. I, I just, I know. Yu-Gi-Oh Rob Verris. Rob Verris went on like IG and did a video about how little they had gotten in terms of, you know, allocation. You know, it was a, it was a story for a little bit. Fanatics is communism. Fanatics is the complete opposite. Comrades, real quick. Collective Soviet to get new tops consumer product real quick. I just want to say too, like, we, you know, we, we are hobby hotline. We're not a big platform, but we're a solid platform where people who care and where people come together who normally may not have conversations, come together and talk every Saturday. And you know, we have the chat and it's, it's great, you know, what thoughts we have and what we say is it, is it. Does it really matter to Michael Rubin and Fanatics and Mayhem? Maybe not. But you know what, what, Nobody can go up against them. Like, let's be honest, if Panini Goldin go up against them, there's. They have too much money, they have too much power, they have too much, you know, too much of a device behind them. But we as individuals and as, you know, a smaller platform being able to speak out and to talk about it and to talk about the nitty gritty and like, some of the, like, kind of gross, uncomfortable parts of this, I think is important. And I think, you know, not just complaining and not just whining, but having like, thoughtful conversations like I think we've had here today about what this all means for us and for Collectors and for hobby shots and for the ecosystem. I think that's important. And I, I don't, I don't personally want to impress Michael Rubin. He doesn't know I exist. He probably never will. And I'm okay with that. But I, I do think we, you know, having pushback and having these conversations even in our smaller, you know, setting here. I think it's important, I think it's important that people are hearing this and that they can seek it out, they can find it, they can hear what Chris thinks, they can hear what Dan thinks and your thoughtful discussions. So I'm sorry, I'm just ranting. I just, I think these are important discussions because Sports Card nonsense was, let's be honest, I have not watched the interview, so I'm speaking from a place of ignorance, but based on what Dan said, it was a platform for marketing, for pr, this specific interview. And to recognize that is important and to recognize that's not what Hobby Hotline is, is important. And I'm sure that Michael Mahan and Michael Rubin could come on Hobby Hotline and have a conversation. It would go differently than it did on Sports Card nonsense because of the fabric of Hobby Hotline versus And I'm not, I'm not criticizing Sports card nonsense. I'm not like criticizing. Right. I am, Dan is. But like I, you know, I understand their role and what they do and stuff. I think to pretend like this was like a hard hitting interview when it was, it was, it was pr, it was, it was a marketing conversation to be broadcast as a podcast episode. And I just think that it's important that we're having these discussions. We're getting into the nitty gritty of it. And I appreciate that you guys have these thoughts and that you're vocal about it. So, you know, John, I love John Keating. He's, he's, he's an Absolute wonderful man. I, I, I cherish every moment I've spent with him. But he's wrong when it comes to this. Michael Rubin were here right now, I would be asking the follow up questions, sport card nonsense. But you know, who knows? I could be wrong. Maybe they would just bowl me over. I, I did notice Michael Rubin would touch out, touch Gio on the shoulder every time he said something that he didn't want Geo to push back. You'll see this, the body language is, is amazing because you know, people are talking about the slouching and you know, that's, I'm just the cool guy. I'm the, you know, like Chris, you know, and, but there was the, he was touching people at points where I was like, oh, I know what he's doing right now. He's telling Giovanni, do not ask me a hard question right now. Do not follow up that. You know, it's like. And, and they, they fell for it. And at the end, Jesse is sitting there thanking them. I wanted to thank you for all you do for. Are you kidding? Like, what is wrong with you? You're sitting there. You know, he wanted to thank them for giving them an opportunity to get a lot of views on that video probably to, you know, people, People have stars in their eyes and they, and they don't understand that, that they don't push back on the nonsense. Sports card nonsense on, on the, on the gibberish that's being sold to them on, on the promotion that's being sold to them because they're, they're hanging out with, with guy luminaries. So, you know, there's stars in their eyes. And you know, Lauren, I think you made a really, really good point. Yu-Gi-Oh Is Michael Rubin going to watch this? No. Is sports cards nonsense going to watch this? Probably. But if everybody who was in the chat and everybody who watches this afterwards can take away from the, from this, that, you know, we, there, there are questions that need to be asked to these people. There are people to look out for. The hobby is not in a good position if this is the guy who's running the modern hobby. And, and I, I think your points are all really well taken and I totally agree with you. And so we're, we're over. We're run overtime 106. Yu-Gi-Oh Okay. I don't want John Newman to come in here and shut us down. But one-of-one Chris, it's always a Pulsar sir. I do want to state that on Hobby Hotline, all of our noses are not brown, clean or clean. Well, I, I appreciate that. I agree with you. But you know, you, you, you provide some fantastic analysis, Chris, and I really appreciate you coming on Lauren. It, it was an Absolute Pulsar I hope we get to do this again. Again. You, you, you've said some stuff that really resonates for me. The chat was fantastic today. Some of my favorite guys and, and, and some of my. Some guys I don't even know have never met, but some guys that I'm friends with and really happy that the chat was just really involved today. So we're gonna say goodbye for now and basically say tune back in next Saturday for Hobby Hotline. Yu-Gi-Oh I guess I, we haven't done the, the the September schedule yet but I've been hosting once a month so I'm really enjoying my time here and I get to get to meet some new people and happy to to hang out with Crystal tonight so today so and chat also. Appreciate it. So take care guys. Keep rocking. Thank you for listening to this episode of Hobby Hotline. Just want to remind everyone we are a live show Every Saturday morning 11am Eastern, 8am Pacific on the Four Collectors channel on YouTube. That's the number four the word collectors channel on YouTube. We hope to see many of you live on a future Saturday. We have a great interactive chat room and we always provide a link for anyone that wants to come on the show and chop it up with us. So that's a reminder every Saturday, 11am Eastern, 8am Pacific on the Four Collectors channel on YouTube. Hope to see you on the show. Hey guys, it's Ryan. I want to tell you about my new pastime, Chumba Casino. Chumba Casino has been around for over a decade delivering the most fun you can have online. Play social casino style games for free, anytime, anywhere. So sign up@chumbacasino.com purchase necessary bgw prohibited by laws in terms of conditions. 21/Grainger knows when you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building, you're managing all of them. And to stay ahead, you need to see through walls and around corners. Lights about to fail, filters ready to clog H Vac on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind. Count on Grainger for quality products, easy reordering and 24. 7 support. 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