Booked to Last: Simple Questions. Complex Answers. The Future of Wrestling Cards

Foreign. Welcome back to Book to Last, the official wrestling card podcast here on the Stacking Slabs Network hosted by my good friends Adam and Ryan. What a time to be a wrestling fan. What a time to be a wrestling card collector. Big sales, big matches across so many promotions. I am having the time of my life fusing those two worlds together, fan and collector. Fun conversation in today's episode, simple questions, complex answers, a lot going on and a very fun title match topic. How important is the TV product on screen and its success to overall wrestling card values? Are there good people who are immune to bad TV or good TV? Fun question to think about. Got to shout out RBI Crew 7 for sponsoring the book to last podcast. The one, the only, the biggest, the baddest, the one stop shop for all your wrestling card needs. Check them out@rbi crew7.com if you want to show your support for the broader Stacking Slabs network. Hit the follow button and tell a damn friend. Wrestling card takeover July 31 NBC Suites at the national it is going to be the biggest wrestling card event known to mankind. We'd love to know if you're going to be there. Email us@booktolastpodcastmail.com but for now it is booked to last with Adam and Ryan. Let's get into it. Welcome to Book to Last, a wrestling card podcast for the card collecting community that goes from the top rope to top top loaders. We are your host Ryan Banister of RBI Crew 7 and Adam Gelman of Main Event Wrestling Cards here on the Stacking Slab Podcast network. Don't forget to like and subscribe here on Stacking Slabs, especially if this is your first time here joining up. You can find the patriot@patriot.com stacking slabs and you can follow Adam and I on social media at RBI Crew 7 and at WWE. Respectfully, let's ring that bell and get this slobber knocker on the way. It's episode 21. Yes it is. Adam, how we doing? Good man. Holiday weekend. It feels like a Monday even though it's a Tuesday. Yeah, I'm all thrown off. I was off since basically a half day Friday and I went to the lake with the family. So I'm just getting back playing catch up and it felt like Monday all day today. Then I realized oh crap, I have a podcast to record today. So we're. We're a Tuesday now. So how was your weekend? It was good. I mean we went to the pool a lot. I mean we might brother and his kids were in town so we, we did A lot of family stuff and you know, it was, it was a good time. We had, we had relaxing weekend at the, Chasing the kids around the pool. So it was fun, but a lot of wrestling this, this past weekend as well. So we'll have to talk a little bit about that. Let's. Why don't we get. I got, as usual, we've got a ton of stuff to talk about. Yeah, apparently we got more to talk about than I realized. So we got to get on with the show. Yeah, let's, let's do it. The good thing here is like, I think it's, it's probably going to pick up quite a bit as we get closer to the national. Everybody's going to be figuring out the best way to make the national fund. So that means Tops is going to be pushing out a bunch of stuff. There's going to be a ton of wrestling between now and then summer slams that weekend. So we're, we're, we're hot, hot and heavy with wrestling here. But let's, let's start with Saturday night's main event. I, I thought, you know, most of the matches were, were pretty good, except for the one that I thought was actually going to be good. Actually ended up being the worst on the card. Oh, what match was that? So, I mean, like, I, I just like. Mike, my question to you is like, have these just become just like glorified house shows or glorified TV tapings? Like they're not special, special anymore? No, they're not. I, I don't really. I'll follow them a little bit this weekend. I was obviously away with the family, so I did not get to watch it live, but I caught up in everything. But yeah, these no titles change. It's pretty. You can guesstimate what's going to happen. You kind of have a good idea. So I just don't really get into the Saturday ones as much as I did at first, but maybe they'll change in time. I don't know. That's just my thoughts on it. I mean, the main event was the street profits versus the division. And like, I mean there's, there's just nothing about this that screams must see tv. Even though I think the street profits and the, and the Vision did put on a good match. Like it didn't matter. Like the, the six woman tag match was fun, great. I mean like none of this really had any real stakes, but we did find out. I can't remember if it was because of this match or something that happened on Raw, but Logan Paul tore his triceps. Yes. Is there. Is there a More cursed, like, Dan House is not involved in this part of our discussion, but he might as well be because I feel like the Vision is cursed. Bron Bronson, Reed's hurt, still hurt on his way back. Bron Breaker was hurt. Seth Rollins is hurt now. Logan Paul will be out for a number of months with a torn tricep. Like, is this for real? Like, are we for real here? Paul Heyman's not safe, man, for poor Paul Heyman. Paul Heyman's gonna get hurt. Yeah. So he got injured in the match. They. They show the highlight, I guess. Was it Dawkins or maybe Dawkins was jumping off the rope or something. He went to catch him and I guess it just. They kind of. I saw the video of it. So, yeah, you're spot on. It is cursed. It's been cursed. And Seth faked the injury, I guess you would say. And I think that's just. You want to get out of the Vision. You don't want anything to do with it. But it's unfortunate. Logan Paul's a great wrestler now. You got to pivot. Obviously, the titles will just be carried now by Theory and Breaker, I'm assuming, until Reed gets back or whatever. I don't know, man. It's just anything that they have planned for them has just had to pivot every time due to an injury. So I just. I mean, like, tag team division doesn't matter in WWE anyways. So, like, it's not, like, horrible if they're off tv. But anyways, moving on to, like, Monday Night Raw, just very briefly, I knew that they were going to tell a good story with Oba and Brock. Like, they, like, that was never in question. It still doesn't change the fact that. That in that entire setup was completely unnecessary. Brock should have stayed retired. Oba and Paul in the ring was great. Brock's promo was great. Like, everything about that was great. But it shouldn't. It doesn't change the fact that it shouldn't be happening. Yeah, I. It's unfortunate. I think we talked about this before and we were. Whenever we did talk about, you know, Brock quote, unquote, retiring at Mania, we thought that was the way to go out, and obviously not. So here we are. But again, are we looking forward to this match? Absolutely. Yes. It's gotta be an awesome match. He's not, you know, he's gonna fight to kill. What he say. I was fighting before to. To win. Now I'm fighting to kill you or something like. Like that. So it's gonna be great. I'm excited. There's gonna be some really good matches here on the card. This, it's gonna be Sunday during the day for us. What time is it? Our time? Did you look at like 1pm or something like that? So yeah, I'll be doing the show here at the shop with Parker. Se first show here so I'll be sitting up but I'll have it on the tv. So we'll definitely be watching the first half here. Then we'll watch when we get home. But I'm looking forward to it, man. I think there's a lot to, to take away from this and I'm excited to get into talking about Clash in Italy versus talking about Saturday night main event. Let's get on. Yeah. And I think like the clash like this pay per view is shaping up to be pretty stacked and like, like they, they do these international pay per views. The crowds are always hot. Like it's always fun to watch. They put on great wrestling. I am excited for this show. I like, I think the two matches that they're putting on ESPN ahead of the main card are Gunther and Cody and then Rhea and Jade Cargill are going to be on ESPN proper. So Rhea is going to get a very big spotlight being on espn. So that means that Roman and Fatu, Jacob Fatu are going to be main eventing the pay per view with tribal combat as they should. That's going to be an insane match. So I guess like Becky and Soul, Becky Lynch, Sol Ruka as well. Hopefully they get the match they didn't get to have on main event because I think like that was a non title match. We understood it was going to be some fucked up finish. It ended up being even more fucked up than I expected and they didn't get any time to tell the story hopefully. So Ruka gets a chance to shine here. Becky gets good matches out of everybody. So I think this is going to be a great match. I think Ria and Jade will be a nice sort of like run back. Ria's clearly going to win. Curious how they they pull that off but I think the, the two matches that everybody is curious about is Obafemi and Brock Lesnar. If Brock Lesnar wins, how does he win and how do they tell the story where they could potentially do the, the trilogy match at SummerSlam and then for Roman and Jacob Fatou like what is like what are, what story are they going to tell if, if Fatu loses which I think Predictably is is likely the outcome where, you know, unless Roman is planning to just leave for a good amount of time and doesn't want to carry the title through the summer, I think that's a mistake. But you know Fatu is going to do something crazy. I hope there's a big run in or something happens where they have something set up for him next to continue this epic run that he's on. But curious to get your thoughts. Yeah, I'm kind of with you. I feel like we've got to see Roman leave with this. I just as much steam as Fatu has right now and I love what they're doing with them. I just don't know. I don't think Roman's going to be short lived with his title run here. I think this one's going to go for a little while. I'm curious more on the Gunther Cody match because I think there's a very good chance that Gunther walks out the champion and Cody is not the champion anymore. I think that originally the plan I get, I'm going to guesstimate here that we were supposed to have a heel carrying this belt and that heel at the time was Randy Orton. Now we have a heel and Gunther in the whims to carry it who is also, I don't know, we all thought it was going to be he was going to get this match against Brock Lesnar. SummerSlam that was the favor. This is a pivot this way. I'm really curious with that match goes also obviously let's talk about Becky and Soul. Can we establish something real quick? Did Soul botch another Soul Snatcher or did she just try to. I think so. I think she supposed to hit it clean and she just slipped on the rope. She was like flawless in NXT and then has two memorable botches right now I know her move is, you know the, the wrestler has to glean into you to her whenever she drives to do the Soul Snatcher. But let's hope there's no botches. I obviously wouldn't see Soul win this. I know you probably are indifferent. It's your girl Becky, but I mean does that title really matter much? I mean she's carried it twice now, right? I mean do you. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I think three times. Three, Two or three times. Yeah. Either way I think it's really important for Soul to eventually hold that title and I think Becky probably needs to move on to challenging upwards on the card. Yeah, I think they are hurting for somebody to face Liv Morgan and clearly they Were going to do Bailey and then I don't what is going on with Liv Morgan. I don't either way. I think from a hobby perspective that is probably the match other than Oba and Brock that has the most implications. So right now the favorite for Oba and Brock is Brock the favorite. It's a toss up. The betting favorite is Brock Lesnar by like a small margin. The betting favorite for Cody and Gunther is a toss up and then for. For Becky and Soul, I think Becky is favored but not by much. So I mean like there is a lot of like, like Ria is like hugely favored, Roman's hugely favored. So like I think those are the three matches with kind of a questionable outcome. But I think like eventually Soul has should win this feud. Like I hope that maybe they. They do a crazy finish for and Becky win, doesn't win clean and then they, they give her the belt at SummerSlam. Give Soul a little bit more time to like build up her her getting over with the fans. But I mean to me it doesn't really matter. Like Becky is pretty much the women's champion right now because Liv isn't really doing anything. No. So I don't know, maybe they, they decide that's the direction that they need to go if Liv's hurt or something. I don't know, man. Yeah, I feel like Sol's got the most to gain or lose from this match for her card bodies. To be honest with you. Her cards are already up there and it's going to be one of those things. They're putting a rocket on her saying hey, you're going to be this girl. Obviously we're not going to let you win the world champion, the women's championship. But here is a step in that direction. Like they did with Trick Williams, had him come up, you know, he same thing exactly. So I think they're going to say we're going to put this on you and let's see how you do with it to see where we go from next. It Soul has all this talent. I think out of all these matches I, I think Oba loses this match because we get the trilogy at SummerSlam. I feel like the direction's going and I'm okay with it because I don't know if I don't think it'll be a squash match. I think it's just going to be a fart hard good match and then Oba comes out as the loser. But we'll end up winning at SummerSlam is what I take. So I don't think it's going to really. I don't think it's going to hurt Oba's cards. I think. I mean come on. Brock Lesnar, how many people could say they dominated Brock Cluster in their career? Well, I think that was the promo. Yeah. Oldberg. Oldberg was once and that was like everybod was in shock and. And then we saw the. The next match and how that really came to. So I'm excited again overall, just talking about these. This does not feel like. This feels like kind of like a close to a SummerSlam type card with everything going on here. Some really good matches, the right names in there. Obviously Liv Morgan, MIA right now. Don't know what's going on there, but no, I'm thoroughly excited to watch this on Sunday. It's going to be a great time. Yeah. So let's let. One last thing I want to talk about is Dan housing in the Knicks. So the Knicks. So the Knicks are, are going to the NBA Finals. Danhausen has uncursed the knicks. They are 11 and oh. Since that has happened, like he's like, he's a big Knicks fan. They've. They've made a big deal of it. Like I, I'm curious, like is at this moment, is he the most visible WWE star that exists? I mean right now, if you think about it, he's all over everything. Tv, he's getting interviews on ESPN shows, everything. I mean he. New York. I mean how much bigger do you get in the city of. You know. I think it's amazing. I love it. I love exactly what they're doing. I mean they're. WWE is cashing in on all this Danhausen right now like crazy. They're living for this right now. This is great. I was not a fan of his coming into this and over time he's, he's really. He's shown like. Okay, I, he's. He's definitely playing into something that WWE was missing. So I, I will give him credit on that for winning me over. The question is, does he get an NBA card before he gets a wrestling card in. In tops. I would hope we'd get a wrestling card before. I mean with. He's been up since how many months now? It was this year. Was it Right. Was it Rubble? What did he come in, sir? No, it was elimination. Elimination. That was it. Sorry. Yeah, I, I feel like we're gotta get WWE cards here. It all depends because I know he owns licensing and rights to all his stuff. So I guess it would be an agreement thing. I Guess. But I wouldn't put it past Tops to make him a basketball card, celebrity type card, because they did it with football or Top now or so. Yeah, yeah. They got to do something. You got to do something with him. I'm sure something Tops now is coming. We need like a Jalen Brunson Danhausen dual autograph. That'd be awesome. That'd be so cool. So, yeah, I think Finest is likely the first time that we might get something Danhausen. I think they got Kendall Gray into Finest last year. She was kind of like the new fresh thing. Danhausen is going to be one of the most chased cards and Finest, if they create it. I don't think they'll get autographs, but maybe they'll get like a base card or something because he did autographs in AEW with Upper Deck. So I feel like it would just be a matter of. No, I think autographs they'll save for Chrome next year. So, like, they may purposefully hold back like they did with AJ Lee and Blake Monroe and so on and so forth. First Chrome Auto. Yeah, something like that. All right, let's get into some card market high spots. I've got a game to play after this and it's going to be super fun. So the checklist for Cosmic Chrome is live. We saw full rundown of everything that they are, including. Including some of the things around, like what to expect in a case. And I would say reactions have been mixed. And I think overall, like, the checklist itself is fine, but the case breakdown configuration is probably what's driving a lot of the mixed reaction. Like, are you excited? Like, I'm curious. Like, you have a lot more experience with Cosmic and basketball and football and baseball and everything. Like, is this a product? I think in previous episodes you've sort of alluded to. Yeah, I mean, it's something I'm going to take a look at, but not horribly dive into head first. I think I'm feeling the same way. Curious if things have changed now that you've seen the checklist. Yeah. So for Cosmic, you know, all the years between baseball, obviously, now football and basketball, I may have ripped five boxes in my time. I haven't ripped a lot. However, this is wwe and I will rip minimum three cases. Just knowing me, I'm going to have to do one with the family. You know, it's just what we do. We rip every product. Basically. It comes out. Yes, we've ripped Universe, We've ripped exalted, We've ripped. Yeah, we do it all. So I'll rip one with the family. That means I'm good for probably one to myself maybe a second over time. But I am concerned. And this, we talked about this before because wrestling people want to get an autograph per box. And this is what really was one of the reasons why Cactus Jack fell flat on his face was you didn't deliver. You gave four autos a case and obviously, oh yeah, you rinse and repeat and all you did was take the WrestleMania logo off. And I'm concerned with this because wrestling collectors want autographs. They want to get an autograph, they want to pull one. So this means cases are going to get ripped and we're going to see two to three autos a case. I mean, that's. How's that going to work for breakers? I mean, they're all based on case. It's a low numbering. I will probably not go heavy with this. As far as a breaking, joining breaks on this one. I'll probably stick to my usual suspects, you know, Layton, Blaz, Mama, couple of the people that I hate. I support them, they're friends. I love what they do. That's probably all I'm going to do. I'm not going to be going on and joining every break under the sun. It's just not for me. Do I think these cards look great? From what I've seen on the checklist, absolutely. However, I am concerned with how it holds its value product box wise, because it's not going to be able to deliver enough to a consumer by ripping a personal box. What are your thoughts? So, like a case, from what we've come to understand, a case is going to include three of the planetary pursuits, which are mostly the cards that everybody chases. So you have the sun all the way through to Pluto, Pluto being the rarest. I think there's probably only gonna be like five to 10 of those. The sun is the most common. There'll be probably a hundred of those, whatever. And like each planet has the same checklist. It has like Roman Reigns and Becky lynch and so on and so forth. Rhea Ripley's not on that checklist. But CM Punk, AJ Lee, like, there's a couple of legends. Undertaker I think is on there, but those are going to be the main chase. You're only getting two to three autos per case. So that's where Cactus Jack fell, as you said, fell very short. But I'm. I don't know, like, it's hard for me to really grasp, like, I want the planetary pursuits. I know the importance of those cards. But I'm curious if it, if it works out like the Galactics were in Revolution. Where NBA. Those cards are huge in wwe they really weren't. And like people bought Revolution for the kabooms because they added those in. Rightfully so. But like in previous years, like those Galactic cases were huge in other, in other sports. Same thing with like this feels like it's going to be a chrome set, so there'll be like rainbows to chase and stuff. I'm not feeling like sort of like the, the old 80s alien arcade design that they have for the base cards. Um, like if you've ever been to Minnesota, there's a restaurant here called Space Alien and they serve pizza and ribs and barbecue and stuff like that. Their floor looks exactly like the background of these cars. And it's, it's, it's hard for me to like disassociate that because it feels like I'm walking into laser tag in the 1990s, you know, whatever. And maybe that's what they're going for. And the cards, like the inserts look really, really cool. I'm curious what the star fractures look like. Those are other, those are other aspects of this that I think are probably going to be a chase. Those, those one per case star fractures and then you're also getting another case hit. So you know, it's, it is what it is at this point I think it's, it's going to be another product that probably feels a little bit less than when it comes to Chrome or Royalty or some of the other more recent stuff. But I don't think it's. I think people will buy it just because it's a new wrestling product and there's still a ton of demand out there. Yeah, let me get your perspective on that. Okay, so first off, this is an eight box case. So obviously two, three autos, you know, okay. Out of 12. Be a little brutal. That's what Cactus Shack was was. It was basically every three boxes you got an auto. This one, two and a half I guess is what we're looking at, give or take. I want your thoughts right now. These are trending at like 3:30 a box on. I'm going use blob for reference here. Would you rather rip this at 330 or would you rather R tops Chrome Hobby at about $300 a box for two autos? I mean personally I've ripped an absolute ton of chrome so I'm probably leaning more towards this just because I don't have any of the cards. But if, if I, if, if we had, if I had, if I was starting from scratch, I would obviously choose Hobby Chrome. It's not even a competition. But like, I now, because I've ripped so much of the other stuff, like, of course I'm going to choose this because it's like I, I already have everything I need from Chrome. Right. Yeah, I guess. I'm sorry, not. I was just saying from, I know, from you collecting. Becky. I'm thinking as a consumer just ripping a box of. They're both. That's, that's my point is because you're going to get two autos in that. And again, they may not be the best two autos. And this underground checklist obviously is. There's not going to be as much of the fluff as there will be in like Chrome Hobby, rightfully so. But that's my point is I don't know if these can sustain being over $300 a box when you're only guaranteed and autograph every two, two and a half boxes. Again, you know, you're ripping this for other reasons like you alluded to and said that I'm just looking for as a consumer as having a card shop putting my card shop owner had on here and knowing a customer would rather rip a box getting two autos for the same, if not less money than rip one box not guaranteed auto. Yeah, that just doesn't compute. And I think that's where the disconnect really exists in this hobby is like, okay, is there enough here? So if you're not going to. It's like if there's eight boxes of case, and let's say the six boxes have either a planet or an auto like, and then the, the seventh box has the star fractor and the eighth box has the case hit like, so maybe there's something per box that drives it. But I don't, I don't think these case hits are going to be as desirable as the ones like, like if I pull a Helix out of Topps Chrome Hobby, that's a couple hundred dollars, right? If I pull a garbage pail kit, it's a couple hundred dollars. If I pull, you know, one of the other case hits, maybe less so. But I think for this, it's probably going to be under a hundred bucks for most of the case hits. If I have to guess, the star fracture is probably going to be a couple hundred bucks. Then the planets depend on which planet you pull and which wrestler. So I don't know, like, there, there could be a reason why maybe this is 200250 but anything over 300 at this point without a guaranteed auto in wrestling is burning. Sending sending your money out to the furnace. Did I see that the SRP is supposed to be like 2:30 a box on this? Something like that. I think it was 229.99 from the link you sent me earlier. So put that perspective is like. I mean I think that's the price it needs to be. However Universe is trending it about that and yeah you get all the hits but these cards are going to be bringing higher dollar for like the inserts and numbers. So I don't, I don't think we need to spend too much more of. Obviously we've got this coming out next week but back to your point is I look so what else is coming out next Wednesday or next week? Star wars masterwork. I'm more excited that than I am this in my family. So looks like we're doing two case breaks next week. Yeah, yeah it's going to be in so I love mess work. I mean but that's what I'm saying is like you're. You're competing for interest still with royalty because we still haven't seen John Cena, we still haven't seen Ray Ripley, we still haven't seen Gunther or CM Punk or any of those big WrestleMania patches. So people are still chasing those actively, especially because of the value of those cards. Then you're throwing this on top of it. I don't think this will get buried because it has enough popularity in the sports. But, but it's, it's not going to have the impact that like Chrome did when it dropped or even Universe because it was the first product in a while. So we'll have to see. All right, let's. Let's play a game here. Okay. I'm going to ask you a very simple question, give or take and some of them have some complex answers and I want to get your take on these questions and then we'll go through these at rapid fire. We'll get into some sales and then we'll close out with our Takeover update and in our title match topic. But I've got a couple of questions here that I think are on a lot of people's mind given the current state of things. So let's start with. In the last five years we have had three sales above 100k for wrestling cards. That includes the Rock and two Hulk Hogan's. By the end of 2028 from today, will there be more or less than three sales above 100k more. More. And what, what brings what, what drives that number for you? Well, obviously the Cena would be one. I really question if Ria could get there to get over 100. I mean there could be a second one. Obviously we know tops is going to be doing the SummerSlam patches, the WrestleMania still. What's the Vic here debut patch worth? You know? Yeah, I mean these are things that they're going to be being creative and thinking outside the box. I think we're going to see that. I mean that's two years from now. You know, we have two years and the hobby where it's going now, we keep seeing record breaking numbers across the board on so many aspects of this industry. Not just obviously wrestling cards. We just saw the Victor Wibanyama black rookie privately sell for $5.1 million. Yes. I don't see. There's no way. If wrestling cards continue to pick up the steam, the eyes on them, more athletes are diving into then collect wrestling like Kurt Anthony Towns has gone public with and other people. I just don't see how it cannot just stay that number. It has to go up. Yeah, I, I'm a, I'm a, I'm on the plus side as well on this. I would say there's going to be at least one more Hulk Hogan that probably sells generally around that area. Cena is going to sell in that area. And then do we have two more years for Tops to ramp stuff up? Yes. And I would say like I, I was talking dynasty. Dynasty, Dynasty. That was. Yeah. So we'll get there too. So like I would say by the end of 2028, I would say we're probably closer to five than three. But we'll, we'll have to see how this all plays out. The market could completely tank. I don't think we're ever going to get back to where it was. But I, you know there's reasons why it may not get there, but I think we're, we're above that. All right, next question. In 2025 we had six total sets in the card year. In 2026 we're likely going to have around eight. In 2027, will there be more or less than eight sets released in the card year? I got to think there's going to be more. It may not be a lot more, but I feel like the relationship with Tops and WDB and Fanatics continues to get stronger and better. They've got obviously going to build more. I would guesstimate, I mean building more is better, right? Wouldn't you think I would guess that I'm. I'm thinking either on 8 or slightly above because I think they're going to expand into some lower end stuff. If I had to guess, like they need to make more accessible sets and I hope that those sets above the eight that we have because we have like Universe Exalted, Chrome Finest, Dynasty Royalty and probably a couple of others. Like I think that there's going to be something that they add to this that's probably on the higher end and there's going to be something that they add to this that's probably more accessible lower end stuff. So I would hope that over the next, you know, year and a half to get into the 2027 card year that they, they bring a little bit more. The real question we should ask on this one is will they spread them out better to control them header throughout a year versus just like boom, here they all are, you know. And I think I would, I would really hope so. Yeah, I get you Mania. You obviously got to capture rubble to Mania 100% on board with that. But we've got to have these spread out to last the entire year. The wrestling card money can only go so far with joining breaks ripping and everything like that. I think you got to spread this out. And again, I'm sure they, you know, they were hands tied last year, better this year, but also get him out the door. I think they, they'll probably have a, I would assume a better calendar planned out next year for wrestling. I would agree. I would agree. All right, next question. Will 2025 Topps royalty be the most important set, not most valuable, most important set released during Topps entire tenure for the foreseeable future. No, I gotta think something else. I don't know. Like that's. You're saying their entire 10 year. Obviously royalty is important, but I've got to think in my head there's got to be, there could be something. So I would say no, I think there'll have to be something in the 10 year of. Of them having this. That would be my guess. And okay, I, I don't know if this is as simple an answer as not made it. It's not. So the, the reason being is because I think that these Wrestlemania patch autographs from Royalty are going to are at the peak for the hype. Right? I. I don't know what else can eclipse this given the state of our current market, given the state of the hobby, given the state of everything that's surrounding wrestling cards. I don't know if there's going to be another peak this high, let me ask the reason we. Go ahead. Go ahead. I got. I got a. I got a thing. I'm asking, but go ahead. So I have to say no, but because I wrote these questions, so it's a little unfair. I had a little bit of prep time, but I mean, like, I'm trying to think, like, is there something that they can do that's beyond this, that's bigger than this? Is that a transcendent? Is that. Is Dynasty going to be that much bigger? Like, what are some of the things that they could do that would eclipse the peak that we're at right now, given that there's so much going on? Like, that's my. That's really the basis of this question. I'm thinking outside the box here. And light bulb clicked off. What if Topps Fanatics eventually buys Panini or product licensing brands and we get flawless back? Boom. Then you get Flawless with Match used. You get everything that Panini couldn't do that tops. Can we get probably Roman Reigns Flawless again? You're telling me foreseeable future? I got to think years down the road, there is a scenario. We got to remember. Fanatics signed that deal with the stickers for 30, 20, 31. But that's panini. Panini is known for the stickers. When that's said and done. What. And they don't have licensing? Like, do you just sell out? I mean, do you sell out before them, knowing what's coming for the future? Those are things to consider because if they get Panini, then they can. They own Panini and then they gather the fanatics deal that can go wherever because obviously it's. It's fanatics owning all these deals and then selling at the tops. Then you get flawless. What? Again, not saying it's happening. I'm just thinking outside the box here. So I get your point of royalty absolutely spot on with the WrestleMania patches. But what if they pivot and say, oh, they're in flawless now, or we're doing this in flawless? I'm just thinking that way because we all talk about, man, sucks. We only got one year of floss, which we could have again, what do you think the hype would be around it then? Obviously you wouldn't be able to rip floss like you did when it came out price wise. But again, put something in perspective. Think about that. That's. That's a really interesting take. And I think that when people saw the World cup sort of licenses, the FIFA licenses going into effect, on 2031 I think everybody was like, there's no way that they just don't buy out the competition. I will give you this food for thought. Historically I don't think that's the approach fanatics usually takes with competition. I think they, they don't wait until things, they sort of want to create their own more than they want to like go and buy up the competition and take their ip. And I don't, I don't have enough experience with the way Michael Rubin runs the business to understand if that's a play nor with the non compete or the, the antitrust lawsuit may prevent that from happening as well. So because Panini is actively in a lawsuit with Topps over antitrust practices, there may be government involvement saying that they can't buy Panini. So who knows? I mean foreseeable future. I put this out very broadly because I think it's just an interesting topic to noodle on. But it's just like there's so many options here. I'm just trying to think, I feel like we are hitting that, that peak. I mean with, with you mentioned the Women Yama sale. There were two other sales in the Fanatics premier auction that were just like whoa. Like that's a lot. So I mean like you know, are we at the peak or not is really the question. And one last thing to talk about with Ruben and very, very intelligent businessman. Yes. Don't forget Topps was about to go public trading and days before fanatics signed the 25 year whatever deal with the MLB and that changed everything. So then Topps couldn't go public and then obviously Fanatics buys tops. So just keep in mind he is a very smart businessman and any way he could pivot angle to get something at a much cheaper price, he go and do it. I mean let's just be honest. Yeah, so like tops. The purchase of Topps seemingly was to allow Fanatics to get access to distribution, access to the cards, people that they needed to design the sets. Like I think like I don't know, like that's just a really, that's, that's a whole take that we can unpack maybe in a later episode. Because it's just an interesting conversation. But it just seems to me like Fanatics isn't aiming to just buy out the Panini ip. Like it doesn't, I don't know what spending that money would give them more than they're already gaining on their own is kind of what I was trying to get. Like they're already on a growth trajectory. I think in this hobby that they probably feel pretty good about and spending 50 to $100 million to get the Panini IP in the middle of an oven of a lawsuit. Very interesting sort of discussion to have foreseeable future. Simple questions, complex answers. I'm giving you my complex answer. This is why I asked the question and I didn't even know any of this is on here. I love when he does these because he. You were for those. I do it on purpose. He does a purse. But as he's telling me this, he's got this shit eating grin on his face. He's like, you have no idea what's coming, do you? It's like an RKO to nowhere. All right, here is another fun question to noodle on. Will the most expensive card in the entire 2026 card year. So that's Topps Chrome 2026 through royalty. 2026, will the most expensive card come from Topps royalty? And we're talking about wrestling cards. 100% will. 100%. So you think 2026 Dynasty, which is coming at some point in this year. The, the, the, the most expensive card is going to come from Royalty. You believe? So I, I gotta think that Cena, if that Cena surfaces, I gotta think what could rival that card for what that card stands for. That's 2025 though. Cena won't have a Wrestlemania. Okay. Cena won't have a WrestleMania patch in 20. Sorry, I misunderstand. I have. I gotta remember they're making 25 releases in 26. Yeah, I know. Elsewhere or edit. Edit. As Tyson would say. The most card of the entire 26. Okay. Come from tops Royalty. Now you're making me think here. So we're talking about 2026 card year. I gotta still stand by my answer. It's gotta be. I think it's. If you're talking releasing this year. Right. The John Sema, if it surfaces second, could be the RIA. We don't have a Roman. Again, 25 card year, people. So we're talking about not calendar year, just the, the card year. So like think about. Because I'll give my answer first. So like 2026 Chrome is the kickoff to the 2026 card year. Okay. And so Royalty is going to probably be. I'm joking. Yeah, royalty. 2026 is going to have WrestleMania patches. We've already seen those. We're going to have a CM Punk from that main event. Roman. I don't think wore a patch. So there's not going to be a Roman Reigns WrestleMania patch. If I had to guess based on what I saw him wearing in the ring, there will be a Rhea Ripley, who won a title at WrestleMania. There's going to be Becky lynch, who won a title at WrestleMania. There's going to be all of those awesome Obafemi ones. Is the Obafemi WrestleMania patch autograph from WrestleMania 42 going to be one of the most valuable cards in 2026? I think your answer is correct. So I think you. You didn't. Even though the. The means to get to the answer maybe didn't align, but I think the. The overwhelming favorite to land the most expensive card is still tops Royalty, even though we really haven't seen what's coming in Dynasty. Yeah, I. I mean, that's the thing. We don't know what's coming in Dynasty. We don't. And I don't think they're going to do any type of debut patches or Mania or. Or is SummerSlam. I mean, but that's coming up before. I mean, that SummerSlam Dynasty supposed to release before SummerSlam. Correct. So I still. Yes. Even though I was going elsewhere with my answer, it was still going to the same place. I just don't see it. I don't think that Dynasty being what it is, you would have to have some type of patch that would drive it up. And I just don't see it happening. What about SummerSlam? So SummerSlam was Cena still not WrestleMania? Yeah, but at Cena. And was that Cena loss. Cena lost to Cody Rhodes and a Cody Russell. Amazing, amazing match. Maybe one of the best John Cena matches ever. And I'm literally driving home for the national in my vehicle and Cermanic put his phone on the dashboard so we could watch that match. And oh, my God, as I'm trying to not kill us driving, watching, I still, I just. Silver Islam just isn't WrestleMania. It's not okay. And I'll stand by my answer. Even though I misunderstood it, I still think it's going to sell higher of the 26 year. I got to think a royalty card. I think that obafemi card could. Could set something very interesting. What if we get Logan Paul his cards by then and Logan Paul's got patches. That's a good take, too. Yeah. Yeah. Look at me thinking outside. You are. You are breaking all the rules. All right, Will, here's the next question. Will WrestleMania 43 being in Saudi Arabia hurt the potential of wrestling cards leading up to it in 2027? So as we are understanding the fact that the playoff Season for wrestling cards usually runs Royal Rumble to WrestleMania. This year, WrestleMania is not in the US so there's not going to be like all of this similar sort of hype that there was around Vegas again this year. Does that hurt the potential for the market in 2027? I mean, I think it hurts in a way, yes. I mean it doesn't really matter where WrestleMania per se goes. I don't like the fact that I have to watch WrestleMania at 5 noon or 11 or noon in the morning on the weekend. I can't. You know, I liked watching WrestleMania night. So again, I think it hurts it a little bit because I don't think they can go out there as top's going to go out there and make a logo fracture product. You know, I, I, I, we not, we not going to get that. I mean again, there's a chance it could still pivot out of Saudi Arabia. However, Saudi's got show me the money. You know, they got all this money that they could do whatever they want. So again, I think it hurts it a little bit because. But again, keep in mind, it's a worldwide phenomenon. Everybody watches it. I just don't know if the market over there is big in the cards. We don't really know. I think it's going to hurt a little bit. I think people will once they start the whole campaign around WrestleMania like this year it was all around like, come to Vegas, do it again, back on the back in the saddle. You know, all that other stuff got me out there. Got you out there. People go to this event like collectors go to this event. You met up with what, like 10, 20 different people there. So awesome, man. It was just, yeah, it was just. It's a whole thing. So like if that's in Saudi Arabia and you remove all that, plus you remove all of the interest from the people who were planning on going. Now they're not going anymore. They're staying at home. Does that hurt the car? I think it does. Like, I think there's not going to be as much excitement around this WrestleMania and I'm curious, like, are they going to try and replicate that in a show outside of WrestleMania? They bring that to. Are they going to put more focus on SummerSlam? Are they going to put more focus on money in the bank, which we still haven't seen for 2026? Like, where is money in the bank? Like all of these other things are all big question marks. I think could potentially hurt the market. Yeah, I haven't talked to one person that says I'll Be at Saudi next year for Wrestlemania. Everybody I talked to is like, not a chance in hell. I'm going. So I think it. Yes, and it hurts. But again, they're getting paid a lot of money. I think they're still seeing the dollars anyway. But it sucks for the. I guess it sucks for the fan base that, you know. And I'm not saying, like, America has to always have it, but I think it's not ideal country for people to feel comfortable to go to. Let's just leave it at that. I agree 100%. All right. 2024 was the year of Tiffany Stratton. 2025 was the year of Stephanie Vacair. 2026, the year of Obafemi, who's 2027. Oh, that's good, man. You really. He got me good with this one. I'm gonna let you go first because you put me on the spot here. Yeah, yeah. So there's a couple of names that are floated floating around. One of them is Kendall Gray. I don't know if she's going to be up in time for it to really make this kind of difference that Obafemi or Stephanie Vacair did in 2026. There's another name in terms of like somebody that's already on the roster, potentially a Blake Monroe or something like that. Could. Could from a female perspective, drives a lot of the market. She hasn't gotten the rocket treatment that everybody else has gotten. You also have existing people like Liv Morgan, like a Roman Reigns. Do we finally get the. The year of Roman Reigns? Now that he is a title holder, he's coming into a WrestleMania potentially with the. With the title. Does that elevate his status? Is it somebody who is potentially going to retire? Is it somebody like that? I think this, and the reason I put this on here is not to come up with a name, but to just show how wide open 2027 is going to be like. We don't have that established rookie class yet. We don't have a lot of familiarity with what's happening. Although we mentioned him earlier on in this podcast. Could 2027 be the year of Danhausen? Oh, Neil would be loving life if that was the case. Okay, I'm going to give mine and this is going to be, oh, screw you, Ryan. We knew there was going to be an answer. I'm going to give it the year. Randy Horton. Here's why 2027 will be 25 years of Randy Orton within the WWE 25 year anniversary. I don't think it's his last year but it's 25 years wrestling and he never once left for Hollywood. He did some small type movies. So I'm going to give obviously the fan answer here because this is a tough answer to come around. The name that I wanted to give who's already crazy over but I think he will be potentially fighting for a world championship in 27 as Trick Williams. I think all that hype and everything, dude, I, I'm. Whenever we gave the ratings, I am eating my words every time I watch Trick Williams when my kids are just screaming, whoop that Trick out of nowhere. I mean the guy is so awesome. He's got it all. So from a young guy perspective I, I'm going to go with Trick Williams on that front for being the young up and comer to get his year 27. Also I'm going to give the old guy my guy Randy orton because it's 25 years because tops probably going to make some products around this too. I think you're going to see a lot of discussion next year. This is Orton's 25th year talked about in WWE. That's a good call. I like that. All right, going back to something that hits a little close to home for you. Will wrestler or celebrity involvement have any real lasting impact on the wrestling card market beyond just what we've already seen from Karl Anthony Towns? He was in a break with Rip Hamilton. Rips earlier this week pulled some crazy cards. Lot of things to discuss there I don't even want to cover but like will the celebrity sort of involvement continue and will it have a lasting. Absolutely. I mean it's like, it's like wildfire whenever you know, you see more athletes and more celebrities continue to come forward because wrestling cards or sorry not wrestling card cards, sports cards or cards in general are cool now. And I think the more people that are famous esque who see somebody like a car. Anthony Towns, Hey, I like wrestling cards. I'm in wrestling cards. It's going to drive more people too because a lot of like wait, they make wrestling cards? I think you're going to see that. Plus you got to remember athletes, celebrities have a lot more of this than normal people and people who even are making money in this industry, I think that their wallets can go a lot deeper than just people who are within the hobby. I think. I agree. I think no singular celebrity is going to have lasting impact. But I think as a whole the, the overall sort of influence of more and more famous people coming to our midst. Like we already know Logan Paul is a Huge collector. He posted that video of him and John Cena signing the card and stuff like that. I love. He's gonna be gone on that too. Yeah. He's like, you're just gonna sell this on me? He's like, no, I'm really not. That's. Yeah, you get to see like in his. Get through that real quick. You could see Logan Paul is just showing like a genuine. Loves cards, loves the hobby in that video. You may not like Logan Paul, but. But respect him for he is as a wrestler. But you could see why we love this industry, why we love this hobby is because the excitement we feel that man felt it in that spot right there. Yeah, for sure. And so, like, you have people like Johnny Gargano, you have people like Tommaso Ciampa who. Who are big collectors. They go to card shops, they've grade cards. You have Matt Cardona, who collects literally everything associated with wrestling figures. All the stuff of his wife, Chelsea Greenhousen does comic books. Danhausen. Yeah, all that stuff. I think those two. Yeah, yeah. So, like, yeah, there was a video of Danhausen and CM Punk, like, going to a comic book convention. Go look that up. If you haven't seen it. Go look up that. It is hilarious. Absolutely hilarious. But I think like, the. The understanding that like bringing more of the athletes, that's what fanatics really has. Yes. Augmented within this hobby is just connecting the players more. You have Bobby Witt Jr. Mike Trout, like, they're all connect. Collecting their own cars. Like Judge Aaron, Judge Paul Ski, all these people. Yeah, Mizarowski, specifically, like, he does a lot with pokes. He was in the shop and he. I told you he came to the shop, right? No, they were. They were in town two or three weeks ago and he came in with Jared Koning and I think it was David Hamilton. They were for an hour and a half. They were awesome, by the way. Yeah, sorry, I forgot to tell you this. So they. They came in here, hung out. I gave him a whole tour, talked to him the whole time. Misarowski's like, I'm six three. Dude. I feel was like six five. Oh, my gosh. No, he's bigger than that dude. It's unreal. He's so tall, but loves cards. He's into Pokemon, but he does love baseball as well. He rips a lot. He loves Sapphire. He was telling me how much he looks forward to Sapphire chrome every year. He said he got hooked on it last year. So really cool to just get those opportunities when they. When they come to you never thought in a million years back when owning a card shop any athlete would ever walk in and now we've had countless amount of them. And it's great whenever teams are here for a series and they go the extra 40 minutes from downtown to come check out her shop. Yeah, that's really cool. And I think like that's going to continue fanatics with Hobby Rib Knight they're bringing athletes to the shops to engage with fans but also get exposed to like what the hobby's all about. So like yeah, for every Drake that comes and rips a bunch of flawless with Ken golden like and then leaves a couple of weeks later like I think that that's really what where I say like no individual celebrity is probably going to have that lasting impact but as a whole bringing that attention and influence is really going to be key. All right. Are the garbage Pail inserts the Garbage Pail Kids are those the most chase worthy cards in 2026 top scroll? No, I think from ripping from one getting them I feel like the feel the pops are the in my opinion the hardest ones to hit and some of the best looking ones. I love the garbage pill don't get me wrong but from that standpoint is the reason why I say this is I'm seeing so many of those garbage pail kits coming out of blasters it's unreal seeing number everything. Whereas like feel the pops are like extremely hard. I know the let's go or super hard helixes are hard. I from ripping as much chrome as I've had and doing breaks I've pulled at least 4 to 5x garbage pail for every other type of case that I've hit. I know that's big on them but again I'm just looking at from that perspective so complex answer. This is my way of looking at it from knowing firsthand how easy was to pull a garbage pill versus pulling the other ones. I agree. I think those feel the pop cards are absolutely impossible to hit. I've only seen a handful of them. Same with I think the let's Go is a little bit easier. But like those feel the pop cards are horribly undervalued for what they represent. But I will say that as we get into the rare parallels for the Garbage Pail Kids like those continue to be really hard to pull as hard as the feel the pop cards. I think that Looking back at 2026 Topps Chrome like it's I think those garbage Pail kids probably are going to stand the test of time a little bit better depending on the longevity of that insert set. But yeah, yeah, I think, I still think like everybody's chasing the inscription autographs but those are. There's such a small population of those cards. I didn't really want to include them in the same bucket. But like I think those garbage pail kids are going to stand the test of time, especially the high graded ones. I did see that there was a rock PSA 10 that was listed and wow is a $2100 for a base PSA 10. Just insane. Those are so hard to grade. They are not clean. I think you're going to see a lot of seven and eights get graded by these to be honest with you. So. All right, this is. I think we have two more and I, I've done. This is just fun. Like I just like posing random questions. So with the results of the recent fanatics Premier auction is Topps Chrome WWE the most important set of any card year, let alone this one. Man, give Ryan a little bit of time to think about this. Recently a LeBron James Super Fractor autograph from the most recent NBA release sold for like $1.5 million or something like that. Yes. Josh Allen's Gold Shield Autograph Redemption which is the, the equivalent of like the. The top debut patch chase in the set sold for $1.35 million. Both of those cards are from Topps Chrome Football and basketball. So does that sort of trickle down into WWE where this all of a sudden becomes. With the debut patches with everything, does that become the most important of the year? I think from a consumer affordability standpoint, yes. Because Topps Chrome can be sold in Hobby Delight Blaster Mega Royalty can only be sold in one shape or form and most people can't rip that. So I feel like yes, there's more tops Chrome out there but I think the name Topps Chrome and Royalty still young in the in the card world, not just and you know in wwe obviously it's his first year but the name Topps Chrome has been around since 2002. What are we. So 96 is when Topps come started with basketball, football, baseball. It was Vince Carter's rookie years. No, no, 96 was Kobe 9899 was there it was 95 tops. No 96 have been the first year top scrum. So I mean it's got 30 years is my point being is and we're seeing that that LeBron auto is I can't stand it now. I mean from a guy who's collect LeBron's the autograph he signs now looks like a crown. I was blown away by that sale and the Josh Allen sale too. That, that was like whoa. But we're still going back to WWE where it's apples and oranges here in comparison. Sure. What could be the biggest card in Topps Chrome outside the Vikir debut which we feel would do guard us the most Money does the Roman Reigns Super Fracture Auto if it has inscriptions? Because we have seen Roman Reigns with inscription autos. Stephanie Mama Breaks pulled one. So if that card services, is that the biggest card in the set or the second biggest? I mean there's a lot of things. The Helix Super Fractures we saw, the Joe Henry was up for a crazy number. There's a lot of things that could drive it up and sales up rightfully so. I mean let's be honest. I had to pay at the time a record setting number for the Randy Orton inscription auto which was way more than ever paid for any Randy Orton until the royalty patch auto that came about. So it's a very tough answer, but it's a complex answer. There we go. That's what the whole point of it. I don't really have much to add. I think Chrome is by this point tops his flagship sort of hype train set. I, it's like it's, they've like we, we came into this license like how are they going to equal Prism? Like how are they going to come back and, and really bring what Prism brought? I don't think they've, they've, they've understood like quite the value of some of the rare Prism parallels. I think a Prism Black is still going to outsell a Topps Chrome Super Fractor in WWE sense. Maybe not in NBA or NFL because those are different beasts. But like I, I, I think it's a lot closer than I expected. Right. So yep. I think, I think that it is the most important set just because the widespread appeal, because the marketing, because of everything. So everything you said I think was, was spot on. All right, last question. Does the Randy Orton sale of that WrestleMania patch set a bar for the other WrestleMania patch autographs that haven't sold? That is sustainable. You gotta remember you're asking the guy who bought the Randy Orton this, which I know that's why he's after you. I feel like certain wrestlers. Yes. I feel like some of the names, I feel like talking with people from when that sale happened that they thought oh I was going to probably get this wrestler for X and now I feel like I have to pay this to get it. I think it does drive up. I think any of these that sold prior to this sale we talked about on here were grossly undervalued in my opinion and went under what they could have went for. We already know the jade Cargill that was a steal. And whoever got it, congratulations. We already know somebody that was willing to easily pay double to get that card and that owner doesn't want to sell. So I got to think that the Randy Orton has set some type of bar or perception again. You got to remember it's. It was me against Carl Anthony Towns. It turns out there was. All the bidding was legit though on that. So there were other people in on this. It was a matter of what that number was going to go to think. And I say this crazy as it is, I'm very grateful it went for what it went for. But I got to think at this point, Ria's going to go higher. You've got. Obviously we know Gunther would go. He's getting more and more eyes on him. If he gets the belt from Cody, definitely helps his card market. I mean there's. There's still a lot of big names out there. We know the Cody's not going to market anytime soon. If ever you got CM Punk should bring. I think the. The after this soldier. The bounty went up from Babyface from 20 to 30, I believe. So it has driven up. It has done something again. People will say, oh, that's just a crazy idiot fan. Yeah, I am. But at the end of the day, the story behind it meant more to me than. I wasn't. I wasn't too far below on Becky. Like I don't say I was too far below. I don't think the CM Punk. I think 30k might be too low now on CM Punk. Like CM Punk was. Was in a main event. Right? He was in a main event. He didn't win. Seth Rollins won. I don't know what that normal threat match. Yeah, yeah. So like Seth Rollins has a patch. It's a redemption. But it's going to have. It's going to be there. I've talked to the guy believe who owns it. We talked a little bit about it. He hit in a break and I don't think he has any desire to sell it. So that one we won't see the market. Thank God. I don't need to be buying enough for one. I'm kind of glad it's not so. Yeah. I gotta think. Just really think about the names are out there. We saw Damian Paris just got pulled Yeah, I mean, that'll be a setting. Damian Lyra will do well. I mean, it's a lot of this is speculation on these wrestlers, too. Some of these younger ones where you're like, hey, if I get in now. But think about next year again. Trick Williams is going to have some next year. We got Oba Femi going to have. We talked about already again. I know we're talking about this year, but I think long term, you know, this really set something in our industry and really put wrestling cards back out there to be discussed about at least for 24 to 48 hours. And we didn't expect it to do what it did. All right, I agree. So simple questions, complex answers. It was fun. I know the purpose of this was to get everybody sort of thinking about some of these things, because these are going to be questions that I think a lot of people are going to be grappling with, pun intended, over the next few months and few next few years. I think it's really important to think about wrestling cards in these types of contexts because we're growing at such a rapid rate, but also because, like, there are collectors out there that are trying to make sense of this. Just like we are on this podcast. Ryan's doing it in real time as I'm feeding in these questions, literally. But, yeah, I was like, but that's. That's why I wanted to do this off the cuff is because I think it forces people to think about things in a different way. And you brought some takes that I wasn't expecting, which I love. So I think, like, we weren't too far apart in what we agreed or disagreed on. But, like, the way that you thought about it was much different than, I think a lot of what I was expecting, which is the whole purpose of this. But, yeah, let's. Let's put a pin in this for now. We're going to come back, maybe do some more questions as the year rolls on. But I mean, like, this is one of the weeks where I think we're setting up for huge show season. We're setting up for the middle of the year. We're about to head into, like, some major developments with King of the Ring was just announced. They're going to do that again. So then we have, like, the Saudi show. We don't know what's happening with money in the Bank. Like, there's a whole bunch of stuff that's still a big question mark. So this was just sort of a fun experience to sort of say, okay, where are our heads at on some of these really hot topics, I want to fly through some sales real fast. Couple of them. We're going to skip a lot of them that I put on here just because we had so much fun with the, with the questions. So mainly this Hulk Hogan sold. It's a flawless one of one WrestleMania autograph from WrestleMania 1. So this was I think the one of the more important Hulk Hogan. It's not WrestleMania 3, but it is WrestleMania 1. It's a near mint. PSA 7 auto 10 sold for $18,600 via auction. Ridiculous number. None of these cards have come even close to this sale. There's no inscription. It's just a flat Hulk Hogan autograph. It was removed from the encased sort of thing. Seeing $18,600. What was your reaction here? Well, it does have the Mike Baker sticker to it, which the gold. I can't. God forbid. God forbid. You got to give that. Obviously I know you enjoy talking about all these Hulk Hogan sales because he's usually the subject sale of the week. I gotta think from what we understand, the tuft comb super fractor auto went for was almost 40k is what I think it was privately sold at 38k I think and I think that shocked a lot of people at this point. If that didn't come to life, I would be completely shocked on this. But being as what it is, we think we're only get. Well as of right now, we're only get one ear floss. Unless you think about my hot take earlier. This is WrestleMania 1 when these WrestleMania cards were made. People are looking for certain years you to go hand in hand. Obviously WrestleMania 1 is very, very, very important. And WF back then, now WWE, I, I don't think it's as crazy now knowing what that top chrome went for and way people were thinking outside the box. So at the end of the day, yes, two months ago, I think this is crazy, but I think we're still coming off the hype of the documentary from Netflix which was very well done. I loved it. So I think we're still getting that Hogan hype. And obviously, you know, he is the immortal Hulk Hogan. As much as Adam doesn't want to admit or not, he is legendary iconic and he is our childhood is more than you realize and you know that. Yeah, I think there's a lot of people out there who are recognizing that a lot. Like I remember when these cards came out like people were criticizing, oh, you only pull like one to eight guys in these encased cards that who cares A lot of them were selling very cheap. Now they're all selling for ridiculous amounts of money, especially the rarer parallel ones. The base ones are still lagging a little bit, but like the, the, the greens and the reds and stuff like that really have been selling well. $18,000 is a huge. I think the, the most comparable sale here I think was like 12k for like a Cody Rhodes with an inscription. So very interesting result. But it's like it's setting a standard for both Hogan on card autographs from these sets, but also sort of like other things. One other set to comment on, one other sale to comment on. This is the Stephanie Vacair 2025 Topps Royalty Autograph Jumbo Relic Booklet. It sold for $10,000 via auction. I believe we know who ended up with the card. But this is, this is one of the first five figure sales. That is not a WrestleMania patch autograph from royalty. The, the relic on this is ridiculous. It's her eye. It has like a, a full like sort of face from the T shirt that they cut up for this. Like I saw this number and I was like, that is a lot higher than I expected it to go. Yeah, I'm not a big bookly guy and I know a lot of people aren't. I think Vikira is on the, the downtime right now. I mean obviously she's going to have a great career, you would assume. But, but I think this is a big number for Vikir. I know her cards have garnished and brought big money, but there's no inscription on here. It's a booklet. Yes, you're. You're buying it for the patch and being the one on one. But I would guess before you show me this seal, I would think that card be worth five to six grand. But again, I know her rare stuff. There's a market for it and, but again, you're buying it off the, the belt run and obviously she's off right now. Yeah, I don't think she's on Huey, right? No, she's not. So. All right, let's fast forward here. We're running over takeover Update. We added a new sponsor. We want to acknowledge our sponsors. So again we covered last week MC Sports Card, Sports Card Junction, Card Shop Live Mama Breaks Bless Online BCW and Card Ladder have already agreed to be a part of our sponsorship. We have a new sponsor in THC Sports Cards. Brian was on the podcast a few weeks ago talking about his role as a dealer within the space he's going to be set up at the National. I believe he goes to a lot of these shows. Great, great person to talk to about wrestling cards. Knows the market exceptionally well, not just for its comparison to other wrestling cards, but outside of wrestling cards as well. Huge help. Super thankful that Brian's on board. We're working on a couple of others that are potentially going to be added in a couple of weeks. But if you are planning to come to the national, make sure you send an email to book to last podcastmail.com let us know that you're going to be at Wrestling card takeover, Friday, July 31st at the embassy Suites in Rosemont, Illinois. You just made the list. This is. I nailed it. Yes. This time, again. Yes. We are going to have so much going on. The giveaways are getting bigger and bigger by the week. I've got a lot of stuff that I'm going to be bringing. Ryan's going to be bringing stuff. We're going to be giving away product, like, you name it. This is going to be so much fun and it's all free. There's a community celebration around our podcast. Be a part of this. Let us know that you're coming. Can't wait to do this. Acknowledge our sponsors once again. Thank you guys for everything that you've contributed already. Thank you. And to close this out, here we go, our title match topic for this week. How important is the TV product on screen and its overall success contributing to wrestling card values? Are there people who are immune to bad or good tv? And I think the reason I brought this up is because Ryan and I have been discussing how absolutely awful Smackdown has been lately. Despite having matches from Rhea Ripley, Tiffany Stratton, you name it. Do you think that that contributes to the wrestling card values overall? Absolutely. I mean, it's like when a player performs in sports, if he's having a great year and the product on the field's great and he's doing great, it's going to affect his cards. If he's batting a buck ten, he's probably going the minors. I mean, you just, you're just not on tv. So I've got to think this does affect their cards based on a good or bad TV product. And right now Rawls is dominating and smackdown. I mean, again, some of the names out there are frigging amazing, but the, the product itself, I don't know. Is it because it's not on Netflix? Is it because it's not getting the right eyes? I don't really know. Maybe it's because it's, you know, to Me, it's Friday, and here's the problem. It's Friday and it's summer. Yeah, it's Friday and it's summer. It's a beautiful. Across the country almost. It's about to be. People are going to be doing stuff with their families outside. There's things to do on Fridays versus wanting to watch wrestling. I mean, obviously you can catch up. Like, for me, it's like, I don't. I don't actually ever get to watch Smackdown Friday because we have plans, we do stuff. But I do go in and follow the matches. I watch highlights. I watch matches online. So I think that's the thing. Whereas, like, people with Raw, they more likely watching it live. So, yes, I got to say that this has. Has to have an effect on these people's wrestling cards. I watch Monday Night Raw almost religiously. It's just. It's Monday night. There's nothing else going on. To your point, Less football season. Yeah. Unless it's football season. I will say this Smackdown has a bunch of interesting people doing really uninteresting things. And, like, I think this feud with Rhea Ripley and Jade Cargill has fallen like. Like, as much as Mission and B Fab. Add something to Jade Cargill, like, they were in catering like, a month ago. Like, I mean, something that they've added to Jade Cargill's aura that I think, you know, adds something, but it's not interesting. Like, the. The whole thing with, like, their tag team division is complete and utter shit. Like, you know, Randy's gone. Cody is kind of treading water until Gunther. I mean, like, the Gunther thing. I love what Gunther does in the ring, but, like, he's not a great storyteller on promos and stuff like that a lot of the time. Like, he stepped it up a little bit in recent years, but, like, a lot of these people that are on tv, Tiffany Stratton has great matches, but they put her up against Lash Legend. Like, that's a clash of styles, if I've ever heard. And it's just like, why are you having these interesting people doing such uninteresting things? And I think that's where a lot of this is. Drew McIntyre's gone. He was very interesting. Like, Smackdown is facing very, very low ratings. People are still going to the shows. Like, don't get me wrong, but, man, like, I. It's like three hours on a Friday night is just abysmal in terms of planning. And I think, like, they. I'm glad they're cutting it back to two hours. I Think you you're forced to pack it in a little bit more. But you know, Sami Zayn just doesn't do it for me and he's been unfocused lately. Want to see Trick Williams do a lot more. But like they're even struggling to find a role for him that isn't just completely weird. Like they put a match of him and Melo on TV and it was just like a random smackdown. Like that's a WrestleMania quality match that they're putting on. A random smackdown and it still wasn't interesting. So, like, I don't get it. Anyways, so does I think card values. Values? Yes, it does. I think it does tremendously. And I was sort of harping on your point, but now I know with that. Yeah, with that. I think we're going to end it there next week. We'll talk a little bit more about the cosmic release. We'll talk about everything going on with the national. Get a little bit more information into people's hands there. We're only two months away from the national. Can you believe it, man? 64 days. I checked there. 65 when it kicks off. How quickly? Well, think about us. We have to cover two booths and we've got to prep and there's a lot of prepping that goes and obviously T shirt ordering promos. I mean there's so much. The NCWO and Hollywood banister comes to town that week. We got a lot to cut between now and then. So no, it's a crazy. It's going to be a free to know it again. I hope you're going to be coming to the the Rusty Card takeover event. That's going to happen again. Thank you to our sponsors. I know Adam did that. I want to again say thank you to all you latest one being THC Brian who's a friend of both of us here and something somebody who will be set for the national with Rusty Cards really close to our booth from what he told me. So again, great list of people. We got a few more we're finalizing out. So I would hope in the next week we would have the list finalized and we can officially say you just made the list to them and then move on. So nice with that. We'll see you next week. Big gulp. See you later. Lot of deep questions in that episode. Always appreciate Adam and Ryan's contribution. Shout out RBI Crew 7 for sponsoring the pod. Shout out you for your support in telling a damn friend about book to last. You all. Take care. We'll be back next week. With another one. Talk to you soon.