Borrowing to Buy Cards? + Are Collectors Investing Wrong? + The Next Hobby Bubble

Hey, it's Bill from the Bill Simmons podcast. FIFA World Cup 26 fans, listen up. Is the official beer sponsor of The FIFA World Cup 26? Michelob Ultra is giving away $1,000,000 worth of FIFA World Cup 26 tickets and prizes. Enter now at michelobulture.com SuperiorAccess/ FIFA World Cup 26 McGlob Ultra FIFA World Cup 26 Superior Access no purchase necessary. Open US residence 21 begins on December 1, 2025 ends on July 31, 2026. Multiple entry periods. Visit www.mcglobeultra.com SuperiorAccess FIFA World Cup 26 for for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. Choice hotels get you more of what you value. Comfort Inn it's calling your name. Save on the stain. Oh, and free waffles are yours to claim. Book direct@ChoiceHotels.com are all batteries the same? That's like asking if all soccer players are the same. Take Messi, the most decorated player ever. Is there any other player who has achieved that? No, just him. Now take Duracell. Is there any other battery with power boost ingredients inside? No, just Duracell. Remember, goats only trust goats because they're built different. And Messi only trusts Duracell. Michael Jordan Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now Jeremy Lee in the building and every guess that you ever needed Sports car the hours keep the hobby heated Updates homie talk like you never seen it Sports cards live and I could ever beat it Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host, Jeremy Lee. Okay, I wanted to, if we can, I wanted to take make us a bit of a segue here, Novak, from the way that millennials, the consolidation, the smaller collection, the way they're looking at cards and the way you're looking at cards and other people are looking at cards. Into the world of investing in cards and can cards be investments and how millennials are looking at cards? As a representative of the generation of millennials yourself, David Novak, tell us a little bit about how you are noticing your contemporaries approach the hobby. Are they looking our cards investments? Are they purely collectibles? You came out as a nostalgic. You're more on the collector side of the spectrum. Where do you see where do you see a lot of these other millennials falling on the spectrum as collectors? Are they? Are they? Are they more on the investing side? Are they? Are they? And not only that, are any people that you're aware of instead of investing in their 401k into more typical or traditional investments. Are they putting. Are they investing in cardboard instead of a more traditional retirement account? So that's a great question. So, as a matter of fact, I just recently took a loan on my 401k through my job, and I actually use some of the money to buy some more sports cards, which is a very untraditional way for many individuals in the hobby. I would say my generation is more likely to take chances based upon what we see in society. For example, I don't want to turn this into politics, of course, but like how we view Social Security, we don't know if it's going to be around when we're old enough. Like, we're. We're more likely to take chances and more calculated risks with our own investment Portfolio and use 401k funds to add, in addition to work money to make moves, to make purchases on certain cards. Basically, like, I don't see, personally, I don't see anything wrong with a $50 deduction each week and you're paying yourself back the interest. You're not using a financial institution to pay a loan of like $10,000, for example. Like, let's just say if you take home after taxes, let's say Jack takes home after taxes, 1800 bucks a week. I think he could afford 50 bucks a week for the next few years and he could pay that loan off quick throughout through his job, you know, if he feels that he's secure and comfortable in those positions. I just feel there's more people in my position that want to take those chances with their 401k. Not anything more than 10% of it, of course, but a small percentage. They could use some of that money that they're not going to touch for the next 20 to 30 years anyway. Why not use some of that in addition to work money to make, you know, moves to, you know, build out the collection? So what, what I'm hearing, I think you're saying, is that millennials are, and not only millennials, but in this case, millennials are more likely to use sports cards as maybe like a diversification strategy within their overall investing world. And because, I mean, let's face it, retirement funds are not very exciting, but they're good to have for, for that rainy day that hopefully inevitably comes as we age. So is that kind of what, what you're saying there, that it's more of a diversification thing versus going all in, which I'm sure some people are doing, too? Is that where you're at what you're saying. Yeah, basically like if you take a small percentage of your, you're able to contact Fidelity, for example, and you're able to talk to them and qualify to make sure you have X amount in your portfolio and that it's safe, it's established and you can use the money to use your own money and pay the interest back each paycheck and that goes back into your 401k. So you're basically taking a loan out to pay yourself back the interest on 6%, for example. Okay, so I think that might be confusing to some people. Yeah. Which is fair. But let me read a few comments that have come in since we started this line of discussion and you can respond to them. Then we'll get Joe and David Chase's thoughts on the topic as well. E105 says please don't borrow from your future to buy cards kids. Jeff Will says 401k loan. Ouch. With loans you could be buying back those stock indices at a higher price. So it's more than just interest. So keep that one in mind. David Novak JG says do not take money out of your 401k. People have zero limits and can't help themselves. Vintage Card collector says 401k loan to buy cards is one of the most foolish things I've heard in a while. And ouch. And Skeppy says don't take loans on retirement money and don't spend retirement money on cards kids Gen X here, by the way. So lots of, lots of sort of maybe call it pushback. Now one thing that I'll just sort of say about all this before we go back to you, Novak, is that when you, when you're dealing with an investment advisor, a financial planner, someone who's managing your money for you, the first questions they ask you is, you know, what level of risk are you willing to take on in your investments? It's not just about sports cars. It's the aggress, the level of aggression they're going to take in deploying your investment dollars into the various options they have from, with, from which to, to invest in. So I also think that the younger you are, the more risk you can take because you have more time to recover from any risks, any investments that go sideways on you and you, you just have more time on your side. Personally, I've always been risk averse. I don't like that, that big risk. That said, I probably have more a higher percent of my net worth in sports cards than most people do. I'm very comfortable with that for myself. I'm, I'm okay, though. Don't worry about me, guys. I've got, I've got my, my retirement funds are, are, are good. They're, they're, they're, they're, they're good. But that said, still say, still saying the situation still is that I'm heavy in, in sports cards in my, as far as net worth goes. But it comes down to risk. It comes down to where you are in life. And I would, I would say that if you do want to invest in sports cars and you do see the potential there and you believe in it, the younger you are, the more I would be okay with you doing that if you're smart and responsible, not talking about gambling and all that. Smart and responsible, not prospecting, I don't think, although you can get lucky. But anyway, my point is it comes down to horizon in many ways and is when it comes to this. So I'm not going to tell anyone to go do it. And I don't think you are either. David Novak but you're comfortable that you're, you just did some of that. But respond now to all that. And then we'll go to Joan and David Chase, give you one more chance, though, to speak up. So from the chat, that's fair criticism. I totally understand it. It's very untraditional for individuals to do it. It may appear to be reckless. I'm very frugal. Like, I bring my coffee to work. I try to eat lunches that are like five to six dollars. Like, I bring food. Like, if I'm basically allocating, like my card budget 50 bucks a week, it could just be coming out through fidelity instead of it just taking, okay, fifty dollars, a hundred dollars and then just putting it into the, the card market. I'm just basically doing it in a controlled environment with the stock market. I mean, it's not controlled controlled, obviously, but it's just like it's set. The money comes out of the paycheck and it's a very small percentage. Like it's 200amonth. I mean, I think if, if we're all honest, we pay for a lot of subscriptions for like Netflix and a lot of just other stuff in our lives. That's almost 200 bucks these days. Like, I just use, I'm a very frugal person. I very, I make sure my kids have everything they need. I take them to hitting lessons once a week. We do a lot of stuff like that. I do a lot with them. Go on A few vacations a year. So it's like, it's not really that harmful. On my back page, it's 50 bucks a week. Like, it's just, you know what I mean? I think we all could find 50 bucks a week if very careful. Like we bring our coffee. We're not having 20 lunches. There are a lot of people my age that do eat 25 lunches and I hate to see people do that because it's like you do that so many times. You could do a lot with that money. So I'm very analytical with my behaviors and things that I do. Like, I just, I mean, I understand the criticism from everybody. It's, it's cool. I'm okay with it. But I do think that there are individuals that are in my position that are okay with taking like a small percentage of their 401k and using some of it to put into the cards in addition to work money and card capital to get yourself a significant card. It's again, it all comes down to that comfort level. I think you're right. It's going to be different for everybody, whatever you're comfortable with, you know, but the Internet has a lot of opinions and they're, they're not afraid to share them as we're seeing it some in some of the chat right now. So. But that's okay. You know, people, it's the way it goes. Joe, I know that you're gonna, you're gonna share your thoughts and you're gonna bounce. Maybe come back a little bit later for the last bit of the show. What are you thinking right now, Joe Perot? Well, I'm not worried about David Novak's financial responsibility whatsoever. I, I think he's on a great path. In fact, it's kind of refreshing to see someone that scores 25 in the nostalgia range who's also consolidating into PMGs. Like, I love that mixture of, of impulses, what I would say. And I'm not, I'm, I'm really. No one should take financial advice from me because I, I have not made great decisions and I, I'm probably risk averse to a fault. David we should talk about real David Chase. We should talk about real estate someday because I missed, missed the boat on that. But what I would say is that everything David Novak was saying about, you know, when we're talking about the generations and millennials rings true to me because I, I think, I think they've grown up in the, the age of entrepreneurialism and I think that they've seen the, the opportunities and, and there's just a little bit more like, whereas, you know, me, Gen X or whatever Gen I am, we're, we're more traditional and like, you know, we're hearing in the chat, it's like, do this, do that, max out your 401k. This, that and the other. That has not always gotten everybody and, and the world is different. So in that light, I would sort of agree how David Novak is characterizing things. And it makes sense to me. It resonates with what I see with, you know, students that I've taught. They're pushing into ideas, they're pushing into paths that are atypical or non traditional. And that's not to say that they're not sometimes, you know, landing on their bottom sides, but, but it is to say that I think it's just much more within the realm of, of their own wheelhouses and how they've seen people around them do well in their, in their worlds and both in terms of like, purpose and finances. Good. Yeah, thank you, Joe. Good comments. And no, seriously, I mean, I thought, I thought that was great. So thank you. And are you now going to bounce? Yeah, I'm gonna bounce and I'm gonna say aloha to David Chase. I wanna, I, I'm hoping I can come back later. Yeah, do the loose shock, David. That'll, that'll show the locals. You don't. Don't do this. Teach me. Yeah, you almost want it just like, just barely hanging, you know. Oh, okay. Like, like lazy. Lazy. Okay. Got it. All right, good, Steve. All right, we'll see you a little later. Bye, buddy. All right, David Chase, what do you think about all this investing in sports cards talk? I mean, yeah, here he is on vacation. He's got to get himself intertwined in this conversation now, right? I mean, yeah, I mean, David, like, you know, everybody has their own opinion, right? And you know, people are going to. I knew right when you said that that you're going to get a lot of pushback for that. So just don't take it to heart as we just talk even about different opinions on this. Okay. Like this is nothing personally versus what you're saying. You know, a lot. I'm a mortgage broker. I help people out of debt all the time. There's a lot of people that I talked to that took 401k loans. I feel like most of them do not pay them back. You know, that's just in, in general, some do. Right. But a lot of them don't. And they have good intentions, but it's very easy to not pay them back. And I see that happen very often. A lot of the younger generation also have kind of been burned because housing prices are so unaffordable for this, for the. For the younger generations. So it's made it where they've had to look in alternative ways to, you know, to. For. For investments. Right. Which is part of the crypto was a big one a couple of years ago, right. Where people were putting a certain, you know, some of these younger people are putting in 50% of their money into crypto and making crazy amounts of money. And then they were showing all their friends that they did it and they looked like that they were geniuses until they weren't. And sports cards, right? Like, they've been in a very, like, high trajectory. Right. So everyone's kind of a genius right now with sports cards. But a lot of us that have been also around during the junk wax era, we saw our collections go to, like, nothing, right. For the big collections that we had. But that wasn't for everything, right. But that was like, during that time. So, you know, it's one of these things where I'm not giving financial advice either. But I do think that compounding interest in a 401k is a very good base for everybody to have. And in a perfect world, I would love to recommend using your excess funds that's Outside of your 401k for the hobby, even though I know it's not perfect for everybody. But in a perfect world, that's what I would recommend for my family. How about that, Right? That's my best way of saying it. This episode is brought to you by Fox 1. Watch all 104 matches of the FIFA World cup live in 4K for just $19.99 a month with 3 days free. Build your own multi view. Choose up to three streams and follow player spotlights. Stay on top of every moment with live stats, highlights and instant replays. The FIFA world cup streaming live on Fox One offers a subject to change. See fox.com for complete terms and conditions. And we're live from the living room as Doug eyes up the machez spread. He's reaching for the buffalo wing. Perfect. Hang on. What's this? Oh, he's gone for a can of Pepsi too. Incredible. 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You can watch the record breaking phenomenon at home. You're clearly working at Zootopia 2. Now available on Disney Plus. Rated PG. Dave Novak, you're. You're back up. I totally respect it. I appreciate that sound. Perfect feedback. I really respect it a lot. It means a lot and I appreciate it. I just feel like also like I have 15 every week contributing into my 401k. My company matches 6%. So it's like every week it's 21 getting injected in. You know what I mean? So it's like It's a Fortune 500 company. So it's like I feel pretty comfortable. You know, again, if I felt very insecure in my position in life, if I had like, like a borderline divorce going on in my life or something like that, I would definitely wouldn't be taking these, these shots and stuff like that. But it's just like I'm at the point where my kids are getting older, they're going to be teenagers soon. Dad's not as cool as he used to be and stuff. So I'm trying to like, that's why I'm here. Like, I want to get more involved with content. It's a good outlet. So it's basically where I'm at right now. Yeah, no great stuff. David. David Chase. You know, listen, this is. I told David Novak the other day, I said, I said, you're gonna get some pushback on this topic for sure. I knew it was coming and. But hey, we're here to have some fun and have some conversation and talk about the uncomfortable. We can do that in many cases. Not all, of course, but in many cases. So let's go ahead. David Chase. And you know, David's not alone with this, right? There's a lot of people that are doing Things like that. And there's a lot of people that are going into debt into sports cards and there's a lot of people that are borrowing on credit cards, but they're probably not saying it on this kind of a platform. So you know what, David? Like, you're brave to even make comments like that, which you're not going like absolutely crazy. You're not saying I'm putting my entire 401k in it. You're saying you're putting in a sliver of it. And, and I do think that it's, it's an interesting perspective to talk about, even though everybody is, you know, a genius when they're, you know, thinking of themselves. And trust me, there's more people that are in debt in these kind of scenarios than what we all think. Well, let me, let me. Oh, go ahead, Novak, go ahead. Sorry. Just want to add one thing. So if I'm paying, I have like no credit card debt. I want to say, like, if there are individuals who do have credit card debt and they are buying sports cards, that to me it's just like you're making bad choices. Then like, I'm actually making more in my eyes, more of a sound investment using like a check from Fidelity that I got from my job that I've been putting into and using like work money as well to make moves to buy these cards. So it's like, why do individuals want to criticize me? Which is fine, but yet they may have credit card debt, they may have significant issues and stuff, which is fine. I mean, not here to judge anybody and stuff like that. I just want to point that out that there are individuals who are up to here with like debt that a thousand dollar car payments, buying cards, which, you know, but that's a whole nother conversation. Well, you know, it's fun. It's fun. It's funny. It's interesting. Personally, myself, my s. My financial situation, I haven't invested in my retirement fund in a couple years because I feel I can do better as a, as a solo investor than, than my financial planner can, but also understand that the, the direction that I've given him. My mandate for my estate is one of low risk. I am not, I am not swinging for home runs in my long term financial planning in my long term investments, which I don't even pay attention to. Like, I don't, I don't look at, I was just every month I mark to market. I mentioned that before, but you know, and so I see the ups and downs. I don't like it, they're never, they're, they're never big, they're never, they're never huge, they're never in either direction. It's just sort of like this, you know, just sort of coast along year over year. But I don't want to take X amount of dollars and put it in there when I think I can do better elsewhere. And one of those places that I think I can do better based on my 46 years of experience in the hobby, not anyone else's experience in the hobby, just mine is I think I can do better in sports cards as an investment insert. With certain cards I have cards that I don't care about the value. Then I have cards that I care greatly about the value because I put signal, I deploy significant capital into them. So not telling anyone and anyone else to do that because you have to be comfortable with it. So it's a, I'm a bit of an interesting case because I'm very conservative in my, in retirement fund investing, let's say. But I'm, I'm not so conservative when it comes to buying sports cars. I'm buying sports cars all the time. I'm deploying investment worthy capital into them not all the time but you know, regularly throughout the year. So I think I can do better than my investment manager does. And it's, it's, it's been proven that I can, I have done better than he's done. And by me in that case, I'm talking about sports cards. Sports cards have provided me with a better return on investment than anything else besides maybe picking one stock like an Nvidia or something and riding that all the way, which I didn't even know about when I could have got in it cheap enough. So because I don't pay attention to those markets, I'm not interested in them. But if I could go back and invest 10 times the amount of money I have into sports cards, into sports cards, I'd be a, I'd be a nine figure guy, you know, easily, I'd easily be 100 millionaire if I could do that right now. And I'm not 100 millionaire. Not yet, but, but I'm not. So, but had I done, had I done what I just said, I would be and that would be so, you know, but listen, we've missed the boat on a lot of those cards. But you know, David Chase, I think you mentioned the junk wax era. You know, those collections went to zero. I was, I mean bro, I've been collecting hard since like 1982 is when I really started compiling a collection. I went through the junk wax era. I had a shop in the junk wax era, 91 to 94. I came out smelling like roses when it comes to the cards that I had at the end of the junk wax era and into the early 2000s. And from there it's just been nothing but, but that as far as the values of cards that I've owned, I've sold many cards too early. Many. I could have made a lot more money if I would have held out, but I took, I extracted money out of the card investment pool to, to further other areas of life and at one point to buy a Joe Jackson card, which was card for card. But point being, I, I've read a lot of the comments in the chat and you know, not giving any advice here, but there's a lot of people in the chat who would, who would like to give advice, but they're also, I, I don't know who they are. They're anonymous, many of them, but those, but, you know, the people in the chat who we know are making comments are actually quite sophisticated in many ways and, and understand that, you know, just, just the blanket statement of cards aren't investments and, and don't treat them as investments. You can't invest in sports cards. That's from people who probably have never been able to be successful doing it. But I know you can do it because I've done it and I, I've continued to do it through the ups and the downs over four decades. So it's just kind of like either you know or you don't, but that's it. Wait till you have the experience and the confidence to do it. Because if you, many, I guess most many people don't. And that's fine. You're not ready for it or you're just not good enough at sports cards to know how to make money doing it in the long run, which is okay, maybe you'll get there one day, maybe you won't, and then that's fine. Collect and enjoy it in the way you do. Purists, big part of the hobby. Nothing wrong. It's a wonderful place to be and there's no pressure. There's no pressure when you're, when you're simply a collector, you don't have to worry about anything, but you also don't. You don't experience some of the thrills as well, I suppose. Yes. David Chase, would you feel different, Jeremy, if somebody is thinking this way with ultra modern versus vintage in, in these kind of thoughts? Well, I don't know, but I will tell you that. What everything I just told you, I've never been an ultra modern. I've never been an ultra modern collector vester sort of thing. I have. Well, I have bought. I have bought cards in the years that they've come out. But, like, I mean, if. Dude, when. When Upper Deck put out the cup in 2005, the, you know, the. The exquisite hockey. I think I was the third person to buy a Sidney Crosby RPA on. On eBay. I think I paid three grand. I think I later sold that card for $15,000. You know, when I'm like, well, the money's just too much. But I've personally owned five or six of the Crosby of the 99 Crosby RPAs, about four or five of the Ovechkins. I don't own a single one anymore. Didn't lose many. Didn't lose money on any of those cards. I made. Probably made five figures on each of those cards. So I'm not somebody who's never been into ultra modern, but really since. At least since COVID I. I don't. I do not dabble in ultra modern at all unless someone gifts me a card for, you know, sort of thing. So. No, but. But it's not only vintage, David. I do believe. I do believe in. In modern, like, you know, call it whatever, the 80s through until like 20, whatever, 2012, 2013. I have a lot of. Of faith in some cars. Not that I don't have faith in the. In the Prism Gold era. Oh, I think I do have faith in that era or those. In some cards from the era. So. Sorry, that's my answer to your question. Yeah, but. But with that, how about players that are playing currently compared to players who are not playing anymore? Like, you know, if you're talking about putting your investment kind of thing, you're still. Even when you're talking about modern, you're still talking about most of these players that are really not around anymore. Right. The only player that I currently would consider myself investing in, I'm also. I have cards. We all do, I think. Well, you and I do both, David. And you two. Novak. Right. Like, we. We buy cards that are. We collect them and they are investments at the same time. Yeah, let's just. That that's fine. Fine and dandy. The only active player that I can think of that I do that with now is Sidney Crosby. In hockey, I'm not collecting any active basketball players and not. But I would collect Steph. I would collect Steph. If I could afford him, if I want, if I wanted to deploy that capital that way. Football, there's no active players that I collect. Baseball, I would, I think I would, I think I'm confident enough in shohei, but that's about it. So what, there's less than one hand over four major sports there, David, that I'd be willing to collect? No, I prefer players whose careers are over. There's fewer things that they can do to mess up their, their, their resume, their reputation. Is that kind of what you were thinking? Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking, but that was also what I was thinking of. If somebody's like listening to this and thinking about investing in the hobby and, and it is such a fun way to be kind of gambling on ultra modern players and watching them do that, that just, I think that's a scarier way to invest in, in the long term compared to what you're talking about with your knowledge, with both of your knowledge. Knowing that the people that are retired, that are the goats, and going for those kind of players is just a different beast than buying, you know, who's ever hot at the moment or the hot rookies like that. Yeah, what you're talking about there, I consider to be straight up gambling. Unless you are in the locker room or, you know, as a, as another player or, you know, a reporter and you can act, you actually know what's going on in these players lives, you know, their families, their friends, who they travel with. Are they, are they, is this someone who's likely to do something stupid like pull out a gun or something like that, then, you know, stay away? But I don't. We, we're not. Me, you and me, David, all the three of us, me and the two Davids, we're not in these locker rooms. We don't know what these players are doing, who they're dating, who they're married to and dating. Like, we don't know anything about the, about. Well, we, we hear things, but it's probably all, you know, it's just fabricated rumors. So. Point being, I think it's way too risky for me. I do not invest in modern players, current players, unless they are like, guaranteed hall of Famers like Sidney Crosby and Steph Curry are, you know, these guys are guaranteed to make all their hall of Fames, you know, first, first, first time they're eligible. David Novak. Yes. I just would like to add one thing. In my humble opinion. Like, I love sports. I love the Cowboys. I, I watch a little bit of other sports as well, but in my opinion, I feel that today's athletes don't play like they used to, like the vintage guys and the older guys, because they're getting such large sums of money that they just don't know how to handle properly. And they might not have the best people around them. They might have some women around them. They might have bad decisions and easy choices to steer the ship in the wrong direction. So, like, in my opinion, I think it's harder for today's athlete to become an actual legend. The road to get there is harder because, like, in football, there has to be a lot of players to do a lot of things right at the same time. And a lot of these guys are getting paid a lot of money. There's a lot of egos. I just think the game's a lot different, too, in all these sports. It's not like it was in the 90s, the 80s, and prior. I think the. The mindset of the athlete is way different today. Absolutely. I mean, you raise another interesting difference there, Novak, which is that, you know, investing in modern players, current players, is risky from an injury perspective as well. But with load management, especially in the NBA, and the, you know, just the lack of toughness, let's say, in some, in among, but for some players, not all. I think, you know, they're more likely to have longer careers, but they don't need to. At the same time, you know, these guys have half a billion in the bank by the time they're 30. Some of these guys, why continue to risk injury, concussion, Achilles, any of these things, especially, you know, concussion from. From a football perspective, you know, and I know half a billion's a lot of money, and there's only a few players making that kind of money, but whatever, 200 million in the bank is good enough for you and a few generations. I. I think at this point in the world. So. Yeah, I hear. I hear what you're saying. Any other comments on that? David Chase or. David. Yeah, Chase, go ahead. Yeah, I noticed that you left off LeBron and Mahomes. Was that on purpose? No, I don't own a Mahomes card, so I couldn't. I can't say I collect my homes, and I. I don't think I'd be ready to yet. I don't. I know he's got his Super Bowls, but, you know, Brady won Super bowls in his fourth year and his 24th year. Right. Kind of thing. I want to see Mahomes build a bigger. A resume that spans a longer time. Right. A player who's going to be around a long time, I think is going to bode well. Now, you do have some exceptions to that rule, like a Walter Payton, for example, a short but illustrious career. Still has a lot of love is Mahomes. Does he have the potential for that? Sure. For me, Brady would make more sense when it comes to football. He has that. He has. Like I said, he has that career. LeBron. LeBron's an interesting case because he is so hated by so many people, but he is so loved by so many people. This world of, you know, social media where, like, MJ didn't get to play in that era, so you can't make that comparison. Would he be as beloved today if he was talking about gambling like he did on social media, or if he. Or hiding it from social media, maybe even worse. Tough to say. With that said, I do think at the end of the day, LeBron's accomplishments will stand the test of time. More so than his. His tweets. And So I think LeBron, because he is. He has a lot of haters. I think he may be a good candidate for picking up a couple cards, which I've done. I have two LeBron cards that I'm not planning to sell. That is my. That is my LeBron investment, let's say. I also love owning the cards as a collection, but they are also investments because I spent significant money on them. So I think LeBron, I think you're safe with LeBron and you might be safer there with. Than with some other modern players because he has the. He. He has all of his critics working against him, pushing his prices down a little bit compared to if they weren't there criticizing him. Is that. Does that make sense, guys? Yeah, totally makes sense. I think that. I think that totally makes sense to me. The only thing that scares me about Shohei, by the way, which I agree he is unlike any other player we've ever seen, is that his cards are just so high. Right. Like, I probably would have said that a year ago. Is there much room for it to go up? Well, yes, there was room for it to go up. Can that keep happening? Can that happen for another decade? I don't know. I mean, it just seems like. I see it seems like there's more room for it to go down than for it to go up for where those cards are now. But that's me, who you should not be taking advice from, because I do not know anything about modern. Go ahead. No, back. I would say with Ohtani, like, he's a Phenomenal athlete. He's great to watch. But the way this hobby works is he's going to be great until he's not as great. Like until he goes in that Mike Trout ended like towards the end of the career point like where he's, he's, he's like plateaued and then he just kind of like goes down a little bit and then there's some new hobby hype that comes in and they're gonna make it like they're gonna make Shohei be like the yesterday thing, like kind of like how Trout is. I just think that's how it is. There's going to be somebody that gets 70, 70, you know what I mean? Or 60 or 80, 80 at some point, you know, it's five, 10 years, 20 years. You know, I think down the road there's going to be like a super athlete that's just going to come out and just do some unthinkable stuff. Yeah, interesting comment about Shohei right there. You mentioned Trout. I just saw a comment about Trout in the chat here. See if I can quickly find it again. It wasn't right here. Inspired sports cards here said Trout is a guaranteed hall of Famer and he has come across to the public as a really. Nostalgia will hit big time with him in 20 years in my opinion. That's a great, that's a good point. I mean Trout is that we were also asked about. There's a few other athletes that have been asked about Jacob Dawson. What about Aaron Judge? Jeremy? I mean, yeah, I think right now, isn't he. He's like, he's on the DL. He's heard he's out for a bit right now. That's, that's a potential buying opportunity if you are coming at this within with from an investing angle. If you're looking for long term hold opportunities. I think one of the problems in the hobby right now is that it comes down to horizon. So many people are looking to make money, literally. Some is, you know, same day, never mind the net. Some are looking to make money same day. Buy a card listed, flip it, same day, same week, same month, same year. The longer your horizon is, the better off you'll be holding cards of guys like Aaron Judge and, and Mike Trout and LeBron James among others. But those are just three kind of questionable ones right now because they have their critics and because judges hurt. Now I admit it's harder to buy a card of a player when they're hurt than it is when they're doing well. It's harder to Buy cards when everything's falling than when everything's rising. But I've, you know, I, and many of us have seen these cycles come and go over the over 40 years in the hobby that you kind of know that what goes up must come down. And I remember during the last bull run in 2022, I was thinking to myself, man, this is amazing. Like is this ever going to end? These cars just going to go up forever. I never thought they would, but you can't help but notice it, right, and, and get caught up in it a little bit. But then you have to let really, you just have to, have to let logic take hold and say, okay, we've seen this before. And if I didn't learn my lesson at the coat in the COVID bull run, I've learned it now. But even now I start thinking to myself, well, here's all the reasons why this might not be a bubble that is about to burst. I think we are in a bubble. But is it about to burst? Or does this bubble have the potential to continue to grow and expand for, for another decade or two or three? Novak, go ahead. In addition to what you're saying, I think there's bubbles within bubbles. Like there's going to be some things that pop. I think there's going to be like guys like the Justin Fields, the Justin Herberts, there's gonna be those kind of hype bubbles that will pop. But the bigger bubble is like the, the blue chip bubble. Like just look at it that way. The Clemente's, the Maris, the, or the Mickey Mantle Roger, like all the top guys and stuff like that vintage and all the blue chip guys. I think that's the biggest bubble. I don't think it's gonna pop, but I just think that there's little bubbles of like the ultra modern guys and stuff like that or within the big bubble of the hobby in my opinion. Interesting comp, Interesting, interesting angle there saying that the vintage bubble. I mean like you know what though? Down the road that vintage bubble will, I think it will become more focused versus smaller. You know, I think it'll similar to what you opened with in that the Pareto principle stuff. We might start forgetting the hobby. I think we'll start forgetting about lower tier hall of Famers and the true, the legends who transcend the sport, who transcend the hobby. Like the Muhammad Ali's, the Tiger woods, the, the Jackies, the Babe Ruths, the, the Jordans. I mean those, the, the Messies. Those guys I think can, can outlast the bubble. The bubble might burst, but those guys are flying above the bubble sort of thing in many ways. So, yeah, just some thoughts there. Does that make, does that kind of make sense? And, and sometimes I ask if that makes sense, David Novak Because I'm actually saying. Did I answer your question? Because I am distracted a lot of the time, so I'm just making sure I was on point there, too. So. Okay, I was good. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the sports cards live community. Don't forget to, like, subscribe and most of all, keep collecting more great content to come. Sports cars is a lifestyle.