CGC Under the Microscope + Did the FrankenWagner Change the Hobby Forever? + Would You Buy It?

Hey guys, I'm Martino Puccio. And I'm Matt Santangelo. And together we're the co hosts of that Milan Podcast, an AC Milan based podcast in English covering everything from the youth system all the way up to the first transfers, pre game, post match, and so much more. Listen to that Milan Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Michael Jordan Fly going Infinite Sports Cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now Jeremy Lee in the building and every guess that you ever needed SP cards after hours keep the hobby heated Updates, homie Talk like you never seen it Sports cards live and I could ever beat it Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host, Jeremy Lee. I like the Mythos comment. I think it does too. Like I said, this card tells two stories now, not just one story about being die cut. You get the die cut story and you get the Oberman story and the paperweight story and the, the, the leec. And talking about it on Sports Cards Live story with Darren Ravel and with us four and the chat. I mean, I think there's a lot more to the card now. And they actually did a pretty good job on the Love of the Game website, not in describing the history of the car, but they did do a good job on the imagery over there. You can actually see some like, I don't know, some special technique where you can see the almost how the card kind kind of melded to the background in a way. And it's actually pretty, it's pretty neat the way they did that junk. Wax museum asks, is this a bad look for the CGC brand interest? Josh, what do you think? I don't think so at all. Because, you know, we, I sent you guys that link last week that just so Tobacco Jesse Burkett from 1893 was sold in 2019 in Rea. And it has a reback and it was restored also. And on that, on that flip, they call it restored altered back. And you know that. So I don't think it hurts CGC at all. I mean, I think it helps them. They're. They're disclosing what it is. That's all. What we want is disclosure, you know, so this is. But they're not. But they're not. I don't think they are. Josh, again, listen, I, I think this is good for cgc. I don't think it's that bad. Even. This might just. And I'll get back to your comment in a sec, Josh, but this might just Be one of those, like, exceptions to the rules. Just like PSA lets the Gretzky McNall Wagner live out there in a legitimate cert when everybody knows it's bogus. Yeah, that's an exception. They've made an exception to their rules because it's a. Maybe because it's a Honus Wagner. This card. Maybe they're making exception to what. What authentic. All. What authentic and restored means by putting this card that is clearly not authentic nor restored in an authentic, restored holder. I don't think it's authentic or restored. It's. I think they're making an exception to their rules, which I don't necessarily agree with, but I. From a business perspective, I understand it. And then finally, I think, like, I understand why they're doing it. From a business perspective, if we understand it, I could be wrong on all this. I don't know. But the other thing is that, like, I think someone in the chat was saying, I think Josh was saying, too, I think this is good for their brand, actually. They are getting a lot of publicity. They have a Wagner in their slab. They have an authentic silhouette of Wagner in their slab, but it's not an authentic card. It's just an authentic. Jake asks, why isn't Jake, I think you've been here most of the show. If you haven't heard me explain why it isn't, then you can rewind it and find that out. I think Word says, I would not touch that card. Oh, and Bystander says they're testing the water. I don't know about that. I mean, maybe, maybe, but that's. That's not. That's not a good move, testing the water. I don't think is. Is a good move. So Jesse here says CGC has this card, the Mantle and the Gretzky on social media all week, and we're all talking about it. Yeah, it's good publicity for them. So I don't think it hurts their brand, which was the question that was asked there by Junk Wax Museum. If anybody has a contact at CGC to reach out and ask them, is this something that they see is sort of a exception and. Or a special situation because of the. The magnitude of the Wagner, or is this something they'd be willing to do on other cards, you know, Rube Waddell and, you know, Dolly Grayback or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It. Yeah. Here. Mark says, I don't know if I agree with it all at all generally, but I do believe both words are necessary. The words authentic and restored, they're Just not. They're. They're out of context. They're just. They're. They're just out of con. And they're inconsistent with their definitions on their own website. That's the. That's the. That's really the. The. The. The main thing here. Right. It is inconsistent with their definition. At least at first glance. It appears to be inconsistent, but. Great comment, Joe, about having a. A contact at cgc. I'm gonna reach out and see if they. If somebody. If Andy Broom, who I think leads up grading over there, wants to come on the show and, you know, kind of take everything I've said and debunk it. Like, I'm happy to be wrong on all these things. Yeah. Just. Or take us through their process, because I'm sure they must have talked a lot about this, like, how do we want to handle this? Yeah, we're. Yeah. How do we. Yeah, exactly. Well, and the same sort of question we were just talking about, but word. 723 words. That a little word. Hey, word. Is wording it a little bit differently. Saying the question to ask, does this make CGC more or less reputable? My initial instinct is more reputable. The fact that they have any Wagner in their slab, I think is good for their brand, which I think is good for their reputation. I also don't. Don't think that them making this exception to their own rules is like. It's not. I don't like it. I don't like it. But does it ruin them as a company? Josh, every grading company makes an exception to their own rules. PSA does with the Wagner, and no one's given them a hard time about ruining their reputation. So I think it's not fair to give the smaller company, hold them to a higher standard than the bigger company. I think that's a little intellectually dishonest. So I think it doesn't hurt them at all. Yeah, I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm with you. And part of the reason I'm with you is because we have loose standards in this hobby. We're willing. We have. We have been. We have shown. We. The hobby have shown over and over again to the tune of 2 million cards a month, that we are okay with the grading companies just misleading us and deceiving us and. And not doing their job properly, consistently, accurately, reproducibly, or. We're okay with this. Guys, it's Greg on Midlife on Midlife Card Chase that you guys dropped this morning. David on the Sports Card Clubhouse Channel shoot. Where was I going with that? Because it was good. It was good something that you, that Greg showed or talked. David, I'm sorry. I just lost my train of thought again. Damn it. It was a good point that Greg made on the show and now I, It'll come back to me. It'll come back to me. So I'm gonna go. Go ahead, Josh. I have another question. I'm gonna regret asking this. What's the, what's the Gretzky that CGC has? Like, what are they talking about? Yeah, I'm not sure what he was talking about there. I'm not sure what he was talking about. Okay. Dang it. Dang. I forget what is. Well, there's. Greg says, thankfully my wife made an exception to her standards. It's marketing. Says situational adventures. Absolutely. It's marketing. Absolutely. Diamond Relic says it should be a purple label for sure. That's the only mistake, in my opinion. Anyone who's going to buy this, though, is going to know the story. I agree with everyone. Yeah. Whoever buys it's going to know the story. Mickey Mental says buying this Wagner feels like a very risky investment. I don't, I don't think so. I don't think it's that risky. I think it's, I think it's still got a lot of good, good qualities to it. So I don't think it's risky investment. It is. It is an authentic silhouette of, of Wagner. No, I love weed. I am not high. Sammy Hill. David, I got you on that Beatles playlist. Need your email so I can send it your way. Hey, forward it to me after two, David, please. David A. Chase, hotmail.com. i'm old school like that. David A. Chase. Hotmail.com. the other David Chase was taken, obviously. Right. Most people that can afford to buy this Wagner don't really care about the investment. They want the card. I mean, stukes. I don't know if we can speak for most people in this case, although I don't dispute that they don't want the card. But anytime you're spending a million and a half dollars or whatever, it's going to be a mill 750. All big money. I think you're, I think they still think about the money. I mean, how. I shouldn't, if, I guess if I say we shouldn't speak generally, I shouldn't either. But I don't know. I, I, I have trouble getting my head around spending that kind of money without thinking about the, the, the exit point. Joe. Just thinking about the value proposition If, I mean, not that I've got a million and a half dollars to, you know, throw at anything, but I'm looking at the pop report, right? So PSA has apparently assessed 14 T206 wagners. The highest appears to be a 5. A 2 is valued in the card ladder valuation at 8.2. A 1.5 is valued at 7.42, and a 1 is valued at 5.8. And then an authentic, of which there are 3, is valued at 2, 2 and change. I don't know, just, just throwing some numbers out there. Kind of interesting to think about. And this is, of course, you know, a singular card as well as, like, we're in a somewhat hot market, right? Properly, we certainly are. And there haven't, there are recent comps on Wagner cards. There are like several in the last couple of years. We had two in, in a week and a half. But wasn't that just earlier this year? Right, so, oh, the Gretzky card. Cage, thank you. Says it's the autographed Gretzky, right? Yes, it's the auto. There was a tops PSA 10 that was, that was unautographed. It was cracked out of the slab. It was autographed by Wayne Gretzky. PSA wouldn't give it a 10 10. And I, I, I can corroborate hearing this. Just like Cage is typing it. So they gave it to CGC instead to get them to slab it, and CGC gave the card A10 and I believe the auto A10 as well. So that's another big CGC card out there, which, that, I mean, listen, that's another case where we are speculating that PSA wouldn't do it. So they went to cgc. Two of these issues in the same month or whatever, probably not the best look for cgc. But these are two big cards and they're a business and maybe they're making some exceptions or I listen, maybe the Gretzky rookie card, the 79 tops. Gretzky actually does meet their standards for a 10 and the autograph as well. But talk about a gamble of the person who actually took that card out of that holder originally. That's, that's got to be tough to do. So interesting. Lots of wonder shine speculation that they're out there buying some of these things. Skeppy here says when are we going to see restoration tutorials and videos on how to do this? I would assume that we'll see that soon. See, that's the bigger, that's the bigger story here, guys, is what does this Honus Wagner. Is this Honus Wagner card now going to be the poster child for all, for the whole restoration, cleaning, altering community? Is that. Is this gonna be their. Their. Hey, hey, look at this. We're. We are now. We are now willing to come out from behind our keyboards, and we're now willing to, you know, walk around in public. And I mean, I saw. I saw an advertisement just the other day for a card show, like a flyer on Instagram, and right there, right under the dates and times, it said, restoration available on site. Like, that's what it said. But, I mean, but it's different, right? At least to some alteration. Soaker Spa folks, like, they're actually trying to get a numerical grade on it, right? They're not volunteering the transparency and not worrying if the. If the background matches the orange of the original. They're just, you know, wholesale trying to clean the card and hopefully get in a better holder. So it might be. I mean, I guess it might loosen our sensibilities, but I'm not sure it's a direct corollary in that respect, which is, you know, one of the reasons I agree with your argument, Jay Lee, that having it with a yellow reverse, a Tommy Leach background. Excuse me. Is actually kind of refreshing because you're. You're clearly not trying to pull the wool over it. Distinguishes it as a Frankenstein type card. Yeah, I. I do. Yeah. Again, I do like that about it as well, Joe. Jake says whoever buys this will lose. Jake, why? Why do you. Why? Why? Like, like. And how. No, not even why, but how do you know like, like, how do you know that? Because this is stated as fact, not as opinion. This is a very. A very deliberate comment. Whoever buys this will lose. Oh, Jake's the same guy that I. I had to discipline earlier. So I kind of shines a little bit of light on it. Right? Yeah. David. David, go ahead. So I'm just thinking about what you just said about restoration and really what this means for the future, which is the path I go down. Also, if a card has a clipped corner now, it can be fixed. The thing that scares me a little bit more is as technology improves, how about if this can't be detected? How about if we can restore a card like this and make it where we're not able to tell the difference? Or. And I really loved Jeremy, how you brought up that a piece of a Wagner, like, what percent of a Wagner do you need for it to get a grade if you have 10% of one? Or does it have to be over 51. I would sure hope. It has to be over 50% to get authentic. Like. Yeah. What percent of the card does. Do you need to get authentic? And could you start with a sliver of the card, build it out, and call it restored? That's what doesn't make sense here to me. Exactly. Because you could literally take that card and make it into 20 different Wagners, and you're going to profit from that pretty significantly if you're able to rebuild a card like that. I know we're being extreme on purpose, but it is. There has to be a percentage designation for how much the card has to be, and I would hope that CGC has that answer. Yeah, that. But that should be stated publicly then. If you're going to start doing this, you got to start telling the community what. What your criteria are. What. What are the standards? Okay, I'm gonna ignore that. David, I heard. Josh. What. What do you think? Do you prefer the die cut, or do you like the card as in its current offering? I like the die cut. It's like the authentic way that it appeared as it, you know, went through time. I like the. The die cut version of it looks like. David, what about you? I. I can actually see liking both of them, you know, or. Or also not liking both. But, I mean, I. I can. Listen, if I were to have a Wagner, I'd be happy with. With a sliver of a Wagner. So, I mean, you know, I understand how important this card is and how expensive it is, but when you're spending over a million dollars, you have to start getting a little pickier on a card like this. And if it were. When I first saw it, I was thinking I'd rather have the restored version. And then just the more and more that I thought about it, I. Either way, it's a great story of the card for you to be able to explain it to anybody that looks at it. And I just think that the card is a little bit more unique looking as the die cut. And for me, like, that's just a little bit more fun for the card. Now, do I need to have a Fun card that's 1.4 million? Maybe not, because the other one does look better. So I get both sides, and I really don't have a strong lean towards one or the other. Fair. And I mean, because I'm just turning over this idea, like, is this a reasonably good investment at 1.3, 1.4? You know, apropos to the person in the chat that's saying it's absolutely not POP14, PSA, POP17, SGC, probably some crossover. So you're looking at about 30 specimens in the entirety of the hobby for what many consider the most important card. I, I strangely like it. I, I'm not proud of saying that, but I. Strange. I strangely like owning a really incredibly iconic card, even if it's only 50%. And I don't mind the fact that we've framed it in such a way that it helps its, it augments its presentation, it helps the card and helps you appreciate the card. I don't feel like I'm getting the wool pulled over my eyes because, you know, we could argue about the nomenclature, you know, restored, altered, whatever we'd want to put. But it is designated as something happened to this card and we all know the at least some components of the story at this point. So I don't know. I kind of like it and I, I kind of could see it. I could see it going higher the next sale and that. I love your point, Joe. And I can see it too. And I could see that it increasing in value from sale to sale, just like the rest of the Wagners. But another thought that I had when I saw those pieces of Wagners when it was like in 10 different pieces. I mean, instead of them putting it into one card. You guys love these patch cards these days where they're ripping up patches. Like how about having a piece of a Wagner in a card like that? Would that be something that would interest you to have a. Instead of a MEM card, a part of a famous Wagner card that's 1 30th of a piece. I, I love the concept, David, I really do. Which is a different. Right, because is a Wagner. Like if someone's want to cut one up back then and people love the cut up one. Obviously we don't mind cutting up historical cards. We care about cutting up historical jerseys, but the hobby seems to love a cut up historical card. That said, if someone were to buy a Wagner and cut it up into a whole bunch of pieces, like I want the nose, you know, give me the nose or give me the lips or give me an eye. Like, what's the best part? I, I personally love the concept, David, and I think it would be hilarious and awesome and who knows, maybe that could like take a 52 tops, Mickey Mantle, cut it up and put it into a card, like put up into several cards. But I mean it's, it's not nearly the same thing obviously, but it's a similar concept. Josh, what are you thinking? I mean I, I had a heart attack when you said cut up a Wagner and put it in cards. Although I would say you could definitely cut up a 52 mantle, but then you could throw it out and they. But that's. Besides, that's a whole other conversation. The guy hobby with Cage had a good point about which one starts with what Because I have two of his comments favorable already. The rules for antiques that this one, right. So you know, if you can apply that to cards. Right. It's got to be 50% original. I think that's a nice guide post. Okay, let's read it using the rule F friend. Using the rule for antiques is helpful. By law, a true antique must be at least 100 years old. However, at least 50% of the items must be original. See that's. But that's a criteria. If that is a stated criteria, that is. Now I don't know who governs the world of antiques or if it's just sort of an accepted standard sort of thing. I don't know how that works. But, but at least there's a guideline out there and why not take it from the world? It's a collectible, it's an antique. That, that makes sense to me. So 50 must be original. So, but does that mean then that this card here is authentic or restored? Like if, if you were to actually do the, the calculate the area of this surface that is the original die cut, which is again this little bit over here. This, the whole silhouette of him plus the name underneath it versus the background and the white border going around three of the edges. What is that percentage? Is it 50%? I mean, you need AI to probably do that calculation. I don't know. But, but yeah, I, I like the com. I like that suggestion from Cage. His next comment says more than 50% of an object has been repaired, restored or had its parts replaced. It legally loses its antique status and is subject to import taxes and duties. So don't know where Cage is getting this from. Did he just find this on Google or GPT in the last 10 minutes or is this something that is documented on some official antique website? Josh? Well, it's federal statute, probably because it's from US Customs duties and import taxation. So it's probably from the Congressional Federal Code or some federal statute. So he probably knows more than I do on this though. Oh, the cfc. Of course, the cfc. The Congressional Federal Code. Right, of course, yeah. But now we're, we're getting to, towards some potential understanding and, and even a potential future type of framework for, for this type of thing. This is for U. S. Customs and duties. He says it right there. Yeah. Thanks. Cage, how do you think back to David's question or, or observation that this probably, or maybe it was you, Jaylee, that PSA may very well have been contacted and may very well have passed on this. I wonder how they're feeling right now about this. Like seeing us, you know, here talking hi nut talking about this and, and the, you know, the, the fanfare that it's generating. I wonder if they have any sort of greater's regret or if they feel good in their, if, if they were contacted. I don't know. Do you guys have any thoughts on that? Like the, I have a thought. I think they're just fine with their decision not to slab this card if they did make that decision. Yeah, I think they're, I think, I think they're like, listen, they would, I mean they would have graded if they want if they felt that they could, I think or slabbed it. I should say they would have slabbed it. One or maybe they could not Listen, it's professional sports authenticators. The word grading doesn't even exist in their company's name. Authenticating does. Maybe they couldn't authenticate it or maybe it didn't pass their, their rules for their requirements or standards for authentication. Because maybe in to Cage's information, maybe it's not 50 original of a Wagner, maybe it's 48 or 49. So they weren't willing to, to put their brand on this particular copy. So, but yeah, I'm with you, Joe. I, I, I like it. I would much prefer it in its current state than the old state, but yeah, certainly not, not in the market for it. Cage says. I'm sure they. What, what do you mean, Cage? Why are you sure they are thrilled that, that this is going on? Because like, I think what he mean, I'm guessing Cage, what you mean is that they're, they're, there's some critic, there's some, I don't know if I want to call it criticism, but there's some skepticism maybe around how they treated this card and I'm sure some criticism. Go ahead, Josh, just, can I comment on, on Jake what Jake just said? PSA's first card is restored. It's not restored, it's trimmed. I mean it's a big difference. Yeah, Josh, you're talking, you're talking to someone who hasn't made sense all night in the chat, so. Oh, all right. I wouldn't, I wouldn't Bother addressing J. But, yeah, okay, that's. That's a good point. All right, never mind. But. But yeah. I appreciate you looking out for the chat though, Josh. It's gotcha. We like that. We like that for sure. Charles says, doesn't SGC have a restored option? Don't know. Maybe someone else in the chat does know, but. Interesting situation. Go ahead, Joe. We learned last. Last week that PSA has a restored. Right. We saw a restored slab on PSA that was in Strongsville last year. So there are extreme circumstances where they are doing that. Even psa. Yeah, Cage says because they're not taking any shrapnel today. Yeah, I thought that's. That's what you meant. Cage makes sense. So card fuchsias. Whoever slabbed that is as bad as whoever slabbed this. Whoever slapped that. I don't know if that's a. If that's a. Like a quote from a song or something like. Oh, there you go. Sammy Hill sent the playlist to you, David. The Beatles playlist. Guys, still trying to. I'm still trying to remember what I wanted to say. That something that. That Greg said on Midlife Card Chase this morning that was really good, but I might have to go back and re. Watch. I can bring that on the follow. Guys, by the way, the Hangover is like the sequel every week. The sports cards live. It is exclusive on the sports card clubhouse YouTube channel. And we will. I will try to remember my last. My lost thought over there on the. That's what I'll do. I'll go back and watch it again. I'll get reminded. Hey, listen, I would love to watch Midlife Car Chase more than once. You know, like, come on, I. I'll watch it over and over again. It's like. It's like when I was like five years old, I went to watch Star wars in the movie theater like eight times. You know, I'll watch Midlife Car Chase more than once. Okay, Paige jumps in again and says, let's not forget in 2025, just last year, nearly $2 million for a Wagner that was in a PSA slab that said restored on the label. So clearly this copy didn't meet the restored rules. Well, we should almost go look at that copy because I. I can picture that copy clearly in my head and actually, I think. I think I can maybe even sent it to you before you want me send it to you. That's not the jumbo Wagner, is it? Is that a different one? No, no, it's the one that was sold in Within A week and a half of another copy. Was it last year or earlier? This year, even. I have no screen shares set up right now. I don't know how I. How I canceled on my screen share. Oh, no. There was one in 2023 from Mile High, sold for 1.9. So then one after. You mean one. So one in 2025. I'm on it. I'm going to use the Google machines and find it. I'm going to go to a card ladder, see if I can find it there. Restored Wagner should find it there, right? Come on, come on. Oh, I got it. I got it. I got it. Okay, here it is. Here it is, guys. Right here. This one sold April 26, 2025. So I'm a year off, $1.98 million. But we're at. Who sold it? Mile High. Okay. Okay. Now if I just open this. I'm gonna do it like this. Let's do it so we can actually zoom in. Okay. There we go. Restored right there. In. In. In. In black and white. But this whole card. There. There's no other card there. The background is original to the car, to this copy. The border, even though it's all weird and wavy, is the original border. I don't know. Now, listen, I'm saying this like I know what I'm talking about. I don't know what was actually restored here, but they didn't take the. They didn't take half of another card to make this card. This is. This is. This, to me, belongs in a PSA holder that says restored. The other one that we're looking at today just. Just does not. At least. At least to me. So I don't know. I don't know. Any thoughts, guys, on that? Well, just so I understand what you're saying, it doesn't belong. Does it not belong in any holder saying restored, or does it not belong in a PSA holder saying restored? Do you mean the yellow one? The. The one that we've been talking about tonight? I think it belongs. I think the yellow. Yeah, the yellow one. Tonight. I don't think. Listen, I'm. I'm willing. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't think restored makes sense for the. For the yellow. The yellow Wagner. I just don't think it makes sense. It's not. Enough of it is restored, like so would. What would you. How if. But you do agree that it's okay that it's encased? What would you. What would you designate it? What would you like to see on it? I would like to see. I don't know if there's one or two words that gets us there, but I. I put a story post out on Instagram yesterday with kind of my thoughts on it, and in there, I'm just trying to find that so I can read you what I said, because I think I mentioned what I thought it might be. And. And I said, what did I. Okay, here it is. I said to call the card overall restored when the new material constitutes nearly all of the card structure, the border, the background, the rectangular form, and what looks like about half of it I find to be a stretch. I also said that. Okay, so I said the Wagner silhouette, the die cut portion, is authentic. Okay, I think we. We agree with that. The rest, including the yellow background, is not. And I stand to that. It's not an authentic Wagner card. So what is the. What is it? What is the rest of the card not the silhouette. What is the rest of it? Is it fake? Is it fabricated? Is it reconstructed? Something like that? Custom is custom. Does custom work? Yeah, I. I mean, come. How about rebuilt? Rebuilt. Rebuilt. But even rebuilt is weird. It's even weird, man, because rebuilt from what? Like, okay, that's half of the answer to me. What was you. What were the ingredients that were used to rebuild it? You know what I mean? What? Like that's why I use that. That terminology. Reconstructed. Fabricated. You say fabricated. I don't really care what you use. Just tell me it was fabricated. That means it wasn't made from original materials, but the same restored joke. How about augmented? Let's see. Cage jumps in again, says, I can see the hamster wheel turning, man. The reason this is tough is because there are no guardrails and rules for what is restored. And. Except on our hobby. And with the greatest. Exactly. It really is. It's as simple as that. We can sit here and. And try to make up the rules as we're going on here. Oh, Jake puts in a good comment, says custom. I don't mind that. I don't mind that one. Jake, somewhat redeeming yourself. Jake, somewhat redeeming yourself in the chat there. Look, card. Fuchsia says custom as well, guys. Yeah, let us know. I mean, what word describes this card which is not on the screen right now? And I'll try to get it back on there. But what word gets you guys there? I don't know. I don't know which one. Which is the right one, so. But yeah, artistic recreation says diamond relics. Facelift says Yankees fan. The winner of the Leighton Shelton giveaway tonight Says facelift Mark says, how much crap are they going to dump on this hobby? Oh, gosh, I, I guess I'm, I'm weird about this because I, I understand that there's, like, some indignation out there, but to me, like, the Wagner, like, since I was, you know, nine years old, it was in the back of a comic book. Like, this card is worth a thousand dollars. That's was like, you know, wanted. It was like. And so for me, any fragment of a Wagner is worth preserving. Now, how you do it, like the, the, the. The mechanism by which you present the card to, to the community and, or hold the card, protect the card, Maybe we can discuss that. But, like, to me, this isn't necessarily crap. This is someone who spent the money to purchase the card coming up with a way that made sense to them at the time, and now it is sort of memorialized in the, in the state it's in. Like you said, Jay Lee, somebody might decide to do something else with the card, but I kind of don't think they will. I kind of think this is the story of this card or the multiple stories of this card will, Will kind of carry forth. And I don't. It's like, what's it worth? I don't know. I guess what somebody's willing to pay for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. But here's a good question from Charles. If you can afford a Wagner card, are you buying this one? Josh, I'm probably going to wait till a PSA one comes through, but, you know, I think if you can afford one, I mean, I think a PSA one doesn't go for less than 2 to 3 million right now. So if you really want one, I think this is. And you can get it for a million bucks, you got a million bucks to toss around. Salud. You know, go get this one. That's awesome. Yeah. Well. And Charles re. He restates it and says, if you could, would you buy this one over a PSA1? To me, it's going to depend on what that PSA1 looks like. Like, I don't want the one that was run over by the truck division. I, I would want. I. Listen, I would take it if I could afford it. It was all that was available. But if you put it beside this one. Yeah, I'm gonna take, I'm gonna take the more authentic copy. I am. I'm not going to take this one, but I do like this copy despite all that. Yeah. If I can get this copy for half the price of a PSA One, I would. I would take this for a million. Over that, for 2 million, I'll put it. I. I would keep the extra million bucks and buy that and buy this new copy. And. And Skeppy makes a comment here, let me find. He says, is the yellow Wagner now a one of one? I think it is for now. I think for now it's the only one with a yellow gradient background. So I think it is. And Stukes makes a good comment. He. He shares information from PSA's website. From the PSA website. PSA will not grade cards that bear evidence of trimming, recoloring, restoration or any other forms of tampering or. Or are of questionable authenticity. Questionable authenticity. Obviously, a big chunk of that card has questionable authenticity. Not questionable. It's beyond question. It's known that it is inauthentic. It's. It's inauthenticity. But we just saw a PSA slab Wagner that said restored. Did we not recoloring or. Well, no, but it wasn't graded. It was slabbed. It says, will not grade cards that bear evidence. So nothing numerical. Nothing numerical. I think that might be the distinction there, David. I think what's kind of important for WAGNER Collectors, all 30 of you that have that card, I think that what's important about this is that it determines a new floor for the Wagner, Right? And I think that every sale that comes after this, they're going to say, listen, how about that die cut one that went for this price? So this is the. Now the new price for it. So it might not be the cheapest one out there of all of them. I'm sure there's one that's worse. But I think that this is probably close to the lowest price in today's market that you're probably going to find, which I just think is an interesting stat when it comes out, when we find out what it sells for. It's going to be super interesting when it does sell. Good point. Sammy Hill agrees. Good point. Flint. Flint hall says, imagine having 3 million and spending it on a card. I mean, Flint Hall, I think you have to understand that if you have. If all you have in your world is $3 million, you spend it on a card, fine, but imagine having $3 million but then having another hundred million dollars, right? Like, like, you know, does the same. Does the same comment apply? Like, that's such a punching up sort of comment. Flint hall, that's a horrible comment. Map says they should have wrote on the back. The majority of this card is not from any specific comment of the night right there. Comment. I love that comment by matt35 oh that's good. That is good. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the sports cards live community. Don't forget to like subscribe and most of all, keep collecting more great content to come. Sports cars is a lifestyle.