Chris Sewall & Mike Talk About SGC Increasing Turnaround Times & Their Future!

Hey, everybody, it is Mike. I am joined by Chris Sewell. Chris, how are you today? Good, man. How are you? Good. We. This is this week in Sports Cards and I don't have an intro, I don't have an outro. There's no music yet, but I gotta make it. I'm just too lazy and I'll say too busy, but it's mostly laziness. Okay. And Greg's really good at making those things. And so I'll probably just wait until he gets annoyed with me and makes one for me. Oh, so he. Did he make the, like two guys across the country, you know, that was his. His jam. Yeah. Okay. And you just. You just approved it? No, I didn't need to. I was just like, well, I guess I did because he said, is this cool? And I said, that's amazing. Okay. Yeah. Good job. So we are reversing the spin of the earth today. This is huge because normally we post this week in sports cards on Saturdays. And this is Surface Issues on Tuesdays. We're going to flip it because on Surface Issues, we broke some news and I wanted to talk to you about that. So on surface Issues, Greg received an email that a customer forwarded to him, an SGC customer forwarded to him, and SGC told him. He emailed SGC and said, hey, you've had my cards for like 85 business days. Where are they? What's happening with them? And they replied to him saying, we're actually just about to increase our turnaround times. Reported turnaround times, and you will have yours back within the next. We'll have yours graded in the next three to six business days, which puts them right about 90 business days for cards they received 90 business days ago. Yeah. Or something. The numbers are. I'm a little sketchy on the numbers because I just saw it for the first time, but maybe it's 75 business days, something crazy like that. And if you think about where SGC was, they were at five to ten business days before they were purchased by collectors two years ago, A little over two years ago now. And then they kind of hovered around the 10 to 20, maybe 30 business days. And they've been steadily going up. Where do you think this is going for sgc? It's not. Not going in the right direction. That's obviously the case When. When the guy submitted it 90 days ago. Do you know what the stated time at that point was? I think it was like, I think it was 40 to 50 business days at that time. Okay. So they're way over from the stated. Yeah, I mean sgc, what can you say here? They're, they're down and they're all the metrics are bad, right? Their numbers are way down, their turnaround times are way up, their card sales are way down. It's sort of a sad state of affair if you're a big SGC fan. I was never a massive fan, but I like them. I have an order at them right now. I just sent it a week ago. I didn't know about the increase so I guess I'll be getting them back, you know, when my son graduates from college or so. But let's just be clear. How old is your son? 10. I hope he goes to college anyway. But yeah, so yeah, no, not, not a good sign for sgc and it's been, it's been a downward spot for them for a while now. When were they purchased? Two years ago or a year and a half ago. It was Leap Day 2024. Leap Day 2020. Leap Day. You know that from. Yeah, interesting. Oh, so it's two years ago, two years ago plus. Yep, just over two years ago. Yeah. Okay. I mean, yeah. Quick word from a sponsor. AuctionWire AI where you can search for any card you want. Even tickets are available in there now across dozens and dozens and dozens of auction houses including major dealers such as Ash from legacy cards. You get all of their inventory, everything up and then you can search. You can add items to your watch list, to your saved searches, to alerts and get alerts anytime one of those cards that you, you're desiring hits an auction or an auction house or, or listing or anywhere. Even on ebay it is the one stop shop to find the cards that you need or want. AuctionWire use code SCC for 2 months free. So Greg, Greg actually put out a video on Friday showing small sample size and he's very clear. Small sample size that the gap between the values or the selling prices of PSA and SGC cards might actually be shrinking a little bit or at least not growing. What are you seeing in your business as a car dealer with SGC slabs? No, that's interesting. Did he. How much? How much? I didn't see that video. How much data did he put into that or have for that? He was looking at certain iconic cards like Hank Aaron 1954 tops. PSA 4 versus SGC 455 tops. Sandy Koufax PSA 4 versus SGC 4. Yeah. And he was looking at, you know, the, the last three sales now compared to a year ago compared to a Year before that and looking at how much of a difference There was then versus there is now and the from 24 to 25 the gap grew big time. Like SGC might have even been in the lead in some of them and PSA gained significantly and they still did on some of them, but in some of them SGC gained quite a bit. And again, extremely small sample size. Very fairly anecdotal, but still very interesting results overall. And so I wanted to just kind of add your anecdotal thoughts on this and you know where I assume you're selling some sgc, although far fewer than psa. No, my anecdotal is modern SGC has just plummeted. Like a PSA 9 versus an SGC 9 is like it's just not even. There's not even a comparable SGC9 used to sort of compete with the PSA9, maybe a little under now it's way down in vintage. The category Greg's mentioning, I kind of agree with him. Like a mid grade, you know, 50 to $100 vintage card probably is pretty close. A PSA 5 versus an SGC 5, you know, 69 Hank Aaron or something. Those are probably pretty close. But when you get at the high end, I think PSAs increase the gap and yeah, so it sort of varies by category but modern is where matters, where you really see the drop in SGC values in my opinion. I think there's still a collector base for vintage SGC as there always has been and hopefully always will be. But modern, like there's like just no, no reason to do anything modern in SGC at the moment. Yeah, I don't know why anybody would want a modern card in an SGC slab. It doesn't look right to me. Oh, it looks, yeah, absolutely. B wore perfect in an SGC slab. Vintage, very good. Yeah, modern. It just looks weird. Especially like chrome cards and refractors, they just don't look right. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. That's always kind of been the case. But I think, I don't know, the values still were kind of reasonable back not too long ago, but now it's like when I get like when I get shipped a collection and it's all modern SGC slabs. I like, I know I'm gonna be, I have, I always prep it. I'm like just so you know, probably going to be offering a lot less than you think here because this is just really hard stuff to sell and move. Nobody wants it at the moment. Yeah. And how much do you consider when you. Let's Say you've got a modern SGC9 and it's a, it's a thousand dollar card and a PSA 9. Do you consider cracking it and submitting or selling it raw or is it better just to sell it in the SGC9? I very rarely crack. I've just, I've just had, I've done it a little in the past. I just never have any luck with it. The only time I ever crack is when I truly think a grade is like wildly low. But no, if something is an SGC9, I probably wouldn't crack it because probably it wouldn't get a PSA 9. PSA give out good grades anymore, at least in my experience. And it takes eight months. I mean, what am I going to do? Yeah, yeah. But nowadays raw sells for PSA 9 value a lot of the time. Oh, you're saying like crack it out and sell it raw? Yeah, I guess you could. I, I don't like the process of cracking. There's always a risk of damage and I don't know, I'd rather, I'd personally rather have a modern a card in SGC9 than RAW. But yeah, for selling purposes it's easier to sell the, the buyer has less options to complain, those sort of things. Yeah. So SGC up to significantly higher. And if they're at 90 business days, let's just theoretically say that I'm right at the 90 business day number. Yeah. On orders they received three months ago and they could they be at 110 business days on orders that are coming out now. And we don't know because they haven't announced yet as of the time of this recording what their new business days turnaround time is. But it feels like the industry as a whole is moving more towards. Yeah, you'll get your cards back eventually at some point. Well, so you, you don't. You stopped using PSA a while ago, right? 13 months ago. 13 months ago. And you occasionally use CGC. Is that your. I just got a CGC order back and I have another one going to them. CGC, JSA. And the order I sent them in February took 50 business days. I think if I remember correctly it was rated. It was between 45 and 55 business days and. But that was dual graded. So they're okay authenticating and grading the card and authenticating and grading the autograph, which is two, I assume two different departments between CGC and JSA. Yeah, probably. I don't know what PSA's turnaround time is on those, but it's 160 business days at least. Yeah, I mean it's a lot. That's my. There's. That's the perfect title for, for this video. That's a lot. That's a lot. No, I mean they're all, they're all. They're all bad. Like we saw this during. Were you. Were you. You were where. You weren't grading stuff during COVID were you? I didn't get back into collecting until late 2020 and CGC was starting up in like March of 2021. Yeah. If I remember correctly. And I gathered enough to do a bulk submission to CSG at the time with the green labels and I sent off. I don't, I don't remember. 25 cards, maybe for a bulk and that. So that was my first foray integrating and I didn't grade anything anywhere else for maybe a year. And then I would grade with PSA and sgc. Yeah, yeah. I talk about this in my videos a lot and I don't understand what people are grading. Like, to me, the proposition on grading is so bad right now. It takes so long. Any company you use takes so long. They're super strict with their, with their grades. Like what are people like the. What are people sending in? Like, I like there's so few cards that I get in where it makes sense to send it in just from like a basic financial, simple money evaluation. It just doesn't make any sense. It's going to take eight months, cost me $30, and I'm probably not going to get a good grade on it. Why would anyone submit that card unless it's like an absolute must. You got a killer, you know, Nolan Ryan, rookie. Okay, but like, why would you submit anything Lessons. But yet the grading numbers keep going up and up and up. What are people doing now? I know a lot of it's Pokemon and that's just a whole different equation, I guess because it sounds like it's so easy to get a 10 and you get a lot of 20 tens that, you know, $20 cards that become a hundred dollars and so it's, it's an easy 10 and you spend 30 bucks. And yeah, you've made a. So it makes sense in Pokemon. But on sports car, even sports cards are going up or they're flat. Right. Sports cards have been pretty fairly flatter trickling up the last six months, would you say? Yeah, yeah, that sounds accurate. How is it not dropped? I don't know. I don't know what people are sending in. I think a lot of it is the Chase to be the first person grading a certain card out of a certain set. So if 20, 25 Topps Chrome football comes out. Yeah, you and you open your packs and you send it off to PSA immediately, usually through a breaker. Right. Or through ebay. And then you just add on. I'll pay 50 bucks to have this graded. And if you send enough of them, one ten could pay for the entire order and profit. Or let's say you send 20 and four of them come back tens and you sell them immediately because those are the first Chrome cards from a certain set out and people are looking for those to be graded. There are a lot of slab collectors out there who don't care about having cards. Well, I mean, they obviously care about having cards, but they want their cards slabbed. And so they're only looking for certain sets and certain cards to be in a PSA slab. And once those hit the market for the first time, they'll sell for like 4x what they eventually settle for. Yeah. So a PSA 10 might sell for a thousand dollars if it's the first one, and then eventually they settle into a steady 200 to $250. Right? Agreed. Agreed. But still, like, the proposition doesn't exist anymore. When it takes eight months now to shit to get stuff back, or with CGC, it takes, what do we say, 90 days or, sorry, SGC, it takes 90 business days. That's what, five months? Being first to market on a Topps Chrome product that just released five months from now doesn't strike me as a good business model. To me, there's just so few cards worth sending in and yet the numbers keep going up. I'm baffled. But don't you think this has the potential to be good for the hobby where other people are talking. People all over the, you know, collectors all over are talking about TAG and they're talking about AGS and they're talking about C3. And are any of these companies legitimate? That's questionable, but people are talking about them. People are trying other things. And if we can get one of these companies and CGC being in there too, if we can get one or two of these companies to rise up and be legitimate and be not a contender, obviously you're not going to compete with psa, but could that be good for us as collectors? And I know you're not much of a collector anymore, but you appreciate collectors and you think like a collector. Oh, it's one. We would 100% be good, I assume. I assume you would. You would want that I would definitely want, I definitely want that. The monopoly is annoying. I would love there to be 10 grading companies that are all credible. Or maybe not. Maybe that's not realistic. But five should be realistic. There should be plenty of room for five or so. Right now there's realistically two. I know on the label there's four. I guess if you want to throw a tag in there, there's five. But three of them are really one conglomerate, so there's very, very few. I'd, I'd love to see much more, but the problem is right now, if psa, I mean, there's so many cards being submitted. I don't think these small companies can handle it, handle the submissions like they're starting to be overloaded. Didn't tag shut down? Tag shut down? Yeah. There's also degree. Yeah, degree. What's degree? That's a new degree card grading. They're another one that's becoming more and more popular. Okay, have they, have they raised times or shut down? I mean, like when, when the tags shut down and the CGCs are now five months, it's like, you know, if, if you're not going to go to PSA because they're $30 in eight months, you need a viable alternative for a company that's not going to sell as high. But if they're also five months and they're probably going to raise, turn to turn on times before you even get it back, they're not really a viable alternative if they sell so much less. So, yeah, I would love to see a bunch of companies rise up and compete, but I don't think it's going to be in this, like, in this environment. It needs to be in a more stable environment would be my guess. I don't. Maybe not. I don't know. So let's talk about cgc, because I think they have the best slabs around. Do you ever. Do you ever receive any CGC slabs in, in collections that you're buying? Yeah, yeah, quite a bit. They don't sell very well. I wish they did. I wish they did. I. I love the slab. I actually like the PSA slab. I don't. You don't, Right. I think it's fine. C plus. It's like a utility player. It'll do in a pinch. Doing a pinch. Okay. Just. Just purely aesthetics. Are you CGC1 like TAG2, maybe? No, I actually can't stand the tag. Oh, really? I like label because it only looks good on a black background. Oh, you mean like with the back with the wall like up like a black wall. Yeah. Because it has its see through, it's acrylic label with white lettering. And so if you put it on a white wall, for instance, you're not gonna be able to read it. Yeah, okay. I never, never thought of that. But okay. So are you CGC1, PSA2? The. Yeah, I guess, I guess I would. It's hard for me to say because most of my cards are psa. Because most cards are psa. Yeah, it's. If I'm looking for a card, I would love to buy it in a CGC slab for CGC prices. Yeah, but, and, and somebody said, well, if you want it in a CGC slab, why don't you just buy it at PSA prices? That wouldn't make any sense. No, although, although Neo says, and I agree with him, like that's the, that's the way things will actually change is if people start paying, see, you know, PSA 9 prices for CGC 9 cards. But that, that's hard to say. Well, gently, Mike, you, you lead the charge. Yeah, yeah. There needs to be more of a demand for cgc. There needs to be more people and there are a lot more people submitting to cgc. Their numbers are way up. But, but again, it's mostly TCG cards. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what would you say is the difference between a PSA9 and a CGC9 in terms of what they're selling for? You get a, you get a, a nice card in, that's CGC9. What would you, if you're comping it out to a PSA9, because you're probably unlikely to find one in a CGC9 and it's listed at, I don't know, 300 or the comps are 300. What would you hope to get from that CGC9? Well, so there's, there's actually two factors there. There's two, there's something kind of more important than that. I mean, Maybe if a PSA9 was going for 300 on a modern card, you know, maybe an SGC9, I'd hope to get 200 and a CGC9, I don't know, 180, something like that, sort of in that ballpark. But, but it's worse than that because the CGC9 is just, you're just gonna have such a hard time selling it. It's just going to sit there like nobody's going to buy it. And SGC9 is the same with Modern. Whereas the PSA9, if it's priced at market it's going to sell. And so you might find a comp on the SGC9 at 200 and say, okay, I'll price it at $200, but it's just going to sit there. Whereas the PSA9 comps at 300. Price it at $300 is going to sell. So it's just from, you know, I don't know, I don't know how to change that. I would love that to change, but I don't know how to change it. An interesting thing I've noticed is because I'm looking for CGC slabbed autographs that are at, on ebay auction because if they start at 99 cents, you're gonna get them for a steal. You think, you think so? But other people have the same theory. And once you've started bidding, you have that ownership attachment to it already. Right? That's the whole point of the 99 cent auction. And what I find is that if somebody starts a 99 cent auction for a CGC autograph, especially for a semi rare autograph, they're going to go much, much closer to PSA prices. Because people, they, they feel like they, they really want it, they're looking for that and they have to have it and they think it's going to go low and then they get attached to it. But if that same card were to be listed, buy it now, it's never going to sell for the price it sells for at auction. Interesting. Okay, well, you're sort of giving me some, some business advice here on how to. No, no, no, no. I'll let the boys know to auction all CGC cards. Mike says it's going to work though it won't go well. And I'm not saying they go for the same, but they definitely go more than a comp you would expect to go for. Yeah, because I think, you know, I'll see like a, a Tony Gwynn 1983 Tops autograph in a CGC slab and I'll look up the comps and they're none for CGC, but PSA is like 800 and I'll think, oh, maybe I can get this for 550 or something. And it ends up going for like 675, which feels it's awesome. I love seeing that. But then that same card and the Tony Gwynn's a bad example because there's none of those. But you see the same card listed and it's listed for cheaper than the one that just sold and people didn't buy it and haven't bought it, huh? Okay. No, I haven't, I haven't noticed that, but that's interesting. Yeah. I hope, I hope cgc. I hope CGC is a good company as far as I know. I hope they hope they catch up here. Maybe, maybe that's the way to do it. Auction stuff. Get these prices up and then the comps look better when you price it and buy now. Yeah. So what's, what's new in Sewell sports cars world? Sewell Sports car World. So I, I got an office for the first time in my life. I've always worked out of my basement or my garage. My, the biggest I ever got was in a two car garage. But I just, I got to the point where I didn't, I needed more space. So I actually got an office and yeah, I'm in my office. We started on Monday. This is our, this was our first week. So when will we get the tour of the office on, on your channel? Yeah, that's a. I don't know. That's a good idea. I'll probably post one at some point, just given the brief tour. But yeah, I got, I got, I got some employees. I got everything. I'm like, I had a good year, so it's exciting for me. I didn't, I'm, I'm a very like, I want to be at home playing with cards by myself. That's what I want. I want that to be 80% of my day every day, if possible. It's not really possible if you want to grow a company. So I, you know. Bit the bullet. Is that the term? Bit the bullet? Bit the bullet and got an office and five days in. I'm really enjoying it. I basically spend my mornings at home by myself playing with cards and then I come in around noon and do office things until like 5ish and then go home. So far it's been great. Five days in. Congratulations. Good year is fantastic. It's good for anybody in the hobby, pretty much. And we're looking to expand. We've made an offer to Mike Junk Waxhero to join the team and he passed. He was like, you're gonna have to add a couple zeros to that. Well, you only offered me $3 million, so yeah, I would love to work in the hobby. I just don't see me leaving my, my real world job anytime soon. Yeah. Can I, so can I share something? I don't think this is personal, but you said. And so yeah, cut this. There's like, if there's a gap in the Next. Like, if there's like a random cut, it's because what I was about to say, I wasn't supposed to share, but Mike told me that in 2020 or 2021. Wait, what would you tell me in 2021 if the opportunity had arose to be in the industry as your full time job, you would have taken it back then, whereas today, today you're currently too good to do it. Not quite that Recent, but probably 2018 or 19. Oh, okay. Oh, before. Before, yeah. I wasn't making very much money. I was making reasonable money, but not like holy man. I. I could never leave the city job I have because I make too much money. Yeah, that's. I'm not like bragging, but like the amount of money I make right now is shocking to 2019, Mike. Okay. Where I could not make this much money plus health insurance for my family in the hobby. Yeah. And at the time, in 2018, my wife had health insurance for the family and she lost that health insurance and so we had to go into mine and we've been on my health insurance ever since. And it's tough to, you know, I doubt you're giving health insurance to your employees. Not yet, but yeah, hopefully we'll soon. Yeah, hopefully, but yeah, not yet. So, yeah, it would be nearly impossible for me to leave my real world job and jump into a hobby job. Although I'd love to. Yeah. Oh, we could start a grading company to compete with the big boys. Absolutely. Owning a grading company, doesn't that sound like the most awful? I mean, everyone just hates on all the grading companies and you can't do anything right. So I don't know why anyone would do that. But I could see owning an eye appeal company where you just pick up a card, look at it, and assign it an eye appeal grade. Well, you're so supportive of the I appeal stickers. Oh, I think stickers are ridiculous. I think that it's so silly to say this card is within the first, the top 5% of cards in this grade. It just doesn't make any sense. But if you wanted me to say boop. A plus. I think there's tons of value in that. Oh, okay, so. Oh, interesting. So it's the terminology you don't approve of. It's not the. Not the concept. It's also the stickers. The stickers. But. But if someone was paying you to for your opinion, you'd have to provide it somehow. What would you do if not a sticker? You would just tell them on the spot. No, I don't know. I haven't given it any thought really, but I can tell. Yeah, I don't really. I don't really know, but. But another big part of my problem with the NBA stickers is, is that they're almost never centered and they're always a little askew. Like they've got the Beckett issue. Yeah. Yeah. Although Beckett fixed their labels. Did you see this? Yeah. But did they fix that problem? I haven't. I haven't seen any new labels. Yeah. Because now they have the card grade. And then so it'll say, you know, Beckett 7. And then right underneath that, it says auto 10. And so there's no separate sticker next to the label. Okay. Okay. Nice. Good for them for solving an obvious issue that they should have solved 25 years ago. Has it been that way that long? It's crazy. It started in 90, I think 99. And they had that same. They never. You know what? I'm not sure. I think I actually started noticing it for real when you started talking about it because, like. Yeah, that is so true. That's always a problem. Yeah. I've never. I've never been in design or anything like that, but I tend to notice those things that. I'm a big fan of symmetry. And so when something doesn't look symmetrical or it doesn't line up correctly, it really, really bothers me. I've worked in Data analytics for 16 years, and I'm not big on over designing a dashboard for people. But it should look good. Yeah, you should. You shouldn't be bothered by the design. No. And when your whole thing is a sticker and it's on. The sticker is based on the eye appeal of the card, and you've destroyed the eye appeal of the card because you put the sticker on slanted, you failed your job. It's a little ironic, I think. Ironic. Yeah. Ironic. I mean, okay, but. So I agreed. Agreed with all that. But as someone who believes heavily in the eye appeal movement that you. Which you do. Right. Absolutely. Believe I appeal. Do you not see. And I'm not a big fan of the stickers either, just to be clear. But do you not see potential value in. Given that the grading companies have kind of become inconsistent and the whole point of the grading company is it's the third party, you know, hey. So a buyer and a seller don't have to argue what the grade is? No, it's a four. The third party company who doesn't have any interest in this sale is saying it's a four. And now that that's becoming consistent, you don't see value in another person coming in and saying, no, no, it's, yeah, it's a, it's a four, but it's actually a little better, you know, because they're, because fours aren't all worth the made to look the same. Right. So, so there can be someone saying, yeah, most people would say this 4 is on the high end of the 4 scale, whereas this 4 is on the low end of the 4 scale. You don't see value in that? Well, let's, let's separate this a little bit, because first of all, I know that those are selling for more, and I understand why the NBA stickers are selling, causing those cards to sell for more. And that's fine. That's fine. But is there value in it? Can you look at a PSA one and tell that it has better eye appeal than another PSA one? No, that's impossible. So you need Mike Baker to tell you this. This has better eye appeal. Yes. If I, if I, if Mike Baker doesn't tell me, I can't tell. And that's, that's the thing is I can see if it's already been graded. Maybe, Maybe the PSA and I think you guys were talking about this. Was it you and Jeremy that were talking about it this week? Maybe the PSA and SGC and Beckett and CGC method of technical grading is just outdated. Oh, that was not us. But that's an interesting topic, and I would. Oh, it's Jeremy. Jeremy Lee and David Chase talking about that. Okay, that's an interesting topic, and I bet that it is. Yeah, I don't know, but I bet that it is. I assume they concluded that it is. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I think, do we really care if there's microscopic little problems with the card? Are those going to become bigger over the next 30 years in the card, or are they just something that you can see with a microscope? That really don't matter. Totally agree. I, I, I totally. I don't know what the point their, their conclusion was, but I totally agree. A microscopic issue should not bring a card down from a 10 to a 9 or a 10 to a 9.5 or what? Whatever, in my opinion. I don't care about. Yeah, I bought a 19, 26 Bobby Jones. I think it's 26 Bobby Jones rookie card. You look at it, and it is absolutely stunning. 26 Bobby Jones. Love it. Okay. Yeah. This is at the national last year, and it's top 100 cards of all time. Or whatever. Yeah. Affordable. Yeah, it's a PSA one, which is why I was able to afford it. It was very inexpensive because it's PSA1. But I. I remember showing Greg and I said, actually, I don't remember this, but he reminded me. And I said, hey, check this out. And he looked at. I said, don't flip it over. He looked at it, he said, this is like a 10. This is the most perfect, most beautiful Bobby Jones rookie card I've ever seen. Why did it get a one? And I said, I'm not going to tell you. Don't flip it over. But if you do flip it over, you will see the most microscopic paper loss. Oh, wow. Okay. Tiny little paper loss. And that maybe it's a 1.5. I have it right here. It's a 2. It is a 2. Okay. PSA 2 or an SGC. Sorry? PSA 2. Because it has this most microscopic paper loss you've ever seen on the back. And it. It makes no sense. Why. Why would we care? Why wouldn't we just give that, like an A minus? That's a great point. That's a great thought. Great thought. Yeah. I mean, I agree. I mean, because you can. You find twos that are all, like, ripped up and look disgusting, but so maybe the. Maybe the. Yeah, maybe the scale needs an update in terms of how we think about it. Yeah, I like that. All right. We've solved the grading world. We did it. We did it. All right. We can. We can retire now. That's it for today. Chris, I appreciate you coming on. And you'll be back on in four weeks. Yeah, I'll have Teapot back on with me in two weeks. Okay. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. If you ever get. If you ever. I've never been on screen with Teapot before, so if you ever feel. Have the feel to. Feeling to make that happen, I'm cool with that. Okay. That's good to know. He's great. I'm a big fan. Yeah, same, same. All right, Chris, thanks for joining me. I hope everybody enjoys the lack of an outro for now. I promise to put one together at some. Awesome, awesome. Thanks as always, man.