Darrell Chan Is Back From The West Coast Card Show With Updates On The Hobby Vibes; Tips On Setting Up At Card Shows; Diamond Necklaces And Wearable Fashion In The Hobby?; Show And Tell Segment

You're listening to Cards to the Moon, a podcast about trading cards from both a collector and investor perspective. We hope you'll stick around for the ride as we take a deep dive into the state of the hobby, share some hot takes, hopefully some useful advice and fun stories along the way. Hey guys, welcome back to Cards to the Moon. This is episode 353 and my name is Clark from 5cardguys.com. You can also find me at 5cardguys on Instagram, YouTube and on Facebook. Co-hosting with me today is our good hobby friend, Daryl Chan aka DC. I feel like it's been a while since he was last on, but I know it hasn't been too long ago that he's returned from the West Coast because he did attend the West Coast Card Show. So we'll ask him about that later on in the show, but DC, welcome back to the pod. Thanks for having me. I love being here. It doesn't feel like that long that I was away, but I mean, I feel like I travel every month so it's just kind of like I'm visiting here. That's the ongoing joke right now. Toronto is my number one visited place, I guess. You're visiting your hometown where you just happen to live, technically speaking. All good. No, I mean, since we last recorded, actually we recorded last when we did our break together with our group of friends. I feel like that was the last time we recorded something official, but here we are and always glad to have you back. So yeah, let's get right into it. Off the top, I'm guessing you saw all the social media posts wherever you're traveling to DC. You're still on social media and I'm sure you saw that Kevin O'Leary, he was wearing something really special at the SAG Actor Awards show this past week. For those who haven't seen it or know what I'm talking about, he was wearing his Kobe MJ Duel Logo Man autograph card that he bought for just under 13 million and it was surrounded by 2.2 pounds of Tiffany white gold and framed by 100 carats of Tiffany diamonds. And I don't know if you heard, he claims the card is now worth 20 million. I'm not sure where he's getting the valuation, but it keeps on going up and up every time you interview him. So DC, I want to get your thoughts on this like bling necklace, which is obviously he's ripping off Logan Paul's diamond necklace that he had for his formerly he owned Pikachu Illustrator card that, you know, just sold for 16.5 million, chump change. But yeah, do you think this is going to be like a fashion trend for high-end collectors? What do you think? First of all, does that 20 million valuation, does that include that heavy garbage that he has? Oh, garbage. I don't know, man. I mean, like, just because it costs a lot of money doesn't mean it's, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but you know, it's like gaudy. Like when you see it, and I think the thing on top of that is, is because Kevin O'Leary is older, it's like recapturing youth. Like I don't know what the goal of that was. I mean, it just didn't look right. Like if you're a wrestler, like you're walking into the ring and you have something like that, like that's part of like maybe an accessory, but a grown man wearing a suit and, and having that around the neck, I think is a lot of much. So you're not a big fan. You know what bugs me? It's horizontal. I mean, that's the reason. Yeah. I get that too. Yeah. Right. Come on. That's a, no, but I hear you. That's just because it's expensive. That's a great point. It doesn't mean it's nice. Yeah. But I mean, becoming a trend, I mean, I can see a bunch of memes. That would be the trend, but I'm not sure if that's going to catch on. I mean, actually the first time I saw it, I was reminded of, you know, when you go to Raptors or Leaf games, they have those big chains that they put around their neck, like the blue or gold cup. I was like, it's one of those, basically with a, with a slab at the bottom. I was like, ah, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I think so too. But you know what? That made me think though, do you think there's a world where you start seeing collectors show off their nice cards in some kind of wearable fashion, not diamond studded necklaces or anything like that? And the reason why I asked, I was kind of talking to you about it off there. You know, Will, Roy and I, we ripped our LaBooBoo, Topscrum LaBooBoo cards, the worst ROI in the history of rips, so it was good for content for me anyways. But in the, in the box, there are these like key chains that wrap around like a mag safe. So you could put the, your refractor hit in the mag safe and then, and then wear it as almost like a key chain accessory. So, you know, they're trying to be creative, but do you see a world where, you know what? As the hobby grows, this might become a thing where you just show it off differently. I've seen people show off in different ways. I would say specifically with the LaBooBoo stuff is like, they already had a working product that was selling very well with people just using the actual LaBooBoo as like hanging on the bags. And they also had a key chain product. So I can see how they integrated that with the whole card thing. I've seen recently there's people putting slabs like as like a phone case almost. I saw that. Yeah. I can see something like that happening. People trying to do it. But if you're going to advertise like a super, super high end card, like I feel like that is just drawing attention for you to get mugged. You know what I mean? Like you're at the show, you're walking with this ring and it's like a, I don't know, like a Jordan PSA 10. Actually it's not even shiny. It's gotta be something shiny to actually reflect all that stuff unless like the diamonds around it are so blinding. I don't even think people care about the card. They just see the jewels and maybe they're going to mug you on the way out of the place or you get followed, you get followed back to your house or wherever you're going. I think it's just a, just a thing like it's like, it's like going, going on vacation. And I joked about this cause when I was on vacation with my brother, this was like 10 years ago and we were in Thailand and my brother, if you know him, you don't know him, but if you know him, he's a guy to guy, like kind of a flashy kind of guy. I'm like, do not bring like these gold chains and like, you know, blinged out jewelry so that you just attract people to want to come, you know, steal, steal from us or follow us to whatever. This is the same thing, but with cards, not only are you going to lose the jewels, you're also going to lose whatever card is in there. Yeah. That's a double whammy, right? The only thing I would say is I've seen weirder things happen, so will it be completely shocking or surprising? I mean, the fact that we've already seen Logan Paul and Kevin O'Leary wearing diamond studded necklaces. We're already in that weird territory where anything could happen, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, we, we have seen, this is the kind of hobby where anything can catch fire at any time and then people will just copy it regardless if they thought about it, thought through a lot of, you know, first. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I thought it was a fun way to open up the discussion, but we got some more serious things to talk about. All right. So let's move on to hobby headlines. All right. I teased this earlier in the episode, DC, you just got back from the West Coast card show. So anytime you go to a card show, I always love having you on because you could tell us what it was like this time around and yeah, remind us how many times have you gone to the West Coast card show now, even when it was called Burbank. I'm not sure if you went those times as well. And for people that have never been there, you know, what would you say makes that show unique compared to all the other big shows? Okay. So this would be my third West Coast card show. So what happens is they have multiple shows in the year. So the first one is in Ontario, California, which is about 45 minutes out of LA. That's the one that usually happens in February. And then, so the first one I went to was last year in February when I first started going to more U.S. shows. And then the second one is the one in Anaheim, which is, I guess, I feel it's a little bit bigger. But this one that we just went to was just for sports. So they kind of separated. The one in Anaheim is sports and TCG. And actually, they have another show coming up, which is just TCG. And then the one in Anaheim will be the TCG and sports together. So I guess there's going to be three this year. But I mean, Martin and Steph, we're just going to go to the sports and TCG one. This was actually pretty good for Steph because even though this was predominantly sports one, I guess they allowed certain vendors, if the majority was sports that had TCG, could still do it. So she did really well because she had some of the nicer stuff. And when we're together, it's just kind of like we have a nice variety. Nice. Yeah. So you guys shared a table. Well, we had how many tables? I mean, we all had a table each because we all had three or four showcases. But we always travel together. So me, Martin, Steph, and Eli. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I met all of you guys at the nationals. So that's cool. So it's your third time. What do you like about this show in particular compared to other shows? Is there anything specific? I would say, well, the city is really good. There's a lot of stuff to do outside of the show. That's the first thing. Specifically, I mean, this time around, I mean, okay, then let me break it down from the first show that I went. The first show I went to in Ontario last year in February, that was like my first exposure to set up in a US bigger show. And right away, it was very, very different than in Toronto. We were doing a lot of sports stuff. Just the sheer amount of people walking in was pretty big. And we liked it because the trade nights are something very, very different. How so? Well, there's organized trade nights, first of all. So at the West Coast Car Show, it's VeroSwap that organizes trade nights after the actual show closes. And then the first night, they had it in the upstairs portion of the venue, which is good. And then the second night, they did it in the hotel. They organized in the hotel inside like a conference room. And it's actually crazy because selling cards and trading cards during the show and trade night is very, very different. I mean, we still kind of set up because we get, I guess we get a little preferential treatment where we actually, in the trade nights, they allocate us tables. And I guess that's just our relationship with the guys at VeroSwap and stuff like that. So we can set up our own stuff. Obviously, they're not actual showcases, like we just put them on tables. So we don't put all the cards out. But what I would say is the cards that were being transacted, whether it was trade, buy or sell during the show is much different than what happens in trade night. Like the stuff that people didn't even look at at the show, people were wanting to pick up during trade night. And I think part of the thing is because there's so many vendors during the show that sometimes if you're not placed in the right spot or like right in the beginning, or close to an entrance or something like that, you might not be able to get the same eyes. And I'm guilty of this too, is when I go to a show, if I can't immediately see the showcase because it's too busy or stuff like that, then I might walk away, go to the next one and then forget to come back to the same one. So you might miss something, even though there's good stuff in there. Specifically the placement for where we were at this show, we selected booths that were closer to Beckett because we were thinking, okay, say we get some raw stuff or we want to get graded right away. We want to be close there because the first time we were set up, we were like at the opposite of where they were. So just taking the time to walk to the other side was kind of time consuming and stuff like that. But after the takeover, Beckett was still set up, but they didn't do onsite grading. So that kind of changed the dynamic of where we were and affected us a little bit. We still did really, really well, just like I said, different type of stuff. And I thought that was actually really good. So you think you're so tired after spending the whole day at the show, but there's like adrenaline, there's like another gear that kicks in when you get the trade night. And literally we would stay a trade night for like an hour, maybe an hour and a half, and then we would go out, have dinner and then chill for the rest of the night. But I think the trade nights just are amazing and it's very similar to the national. Maybe it's a US thing, but we really, really enjoyed the trade nights. There were some crazy things coming. Wow. So yeah, it's almost sounds like it's almost like a, well, I've been to a national for the first time with you guys last year and it's almost like another show. Oh, all together, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's what I felt like. People that don't set up, you get to all of a sudden see their stuff. Right, right, right. You know, where maybe because they end up, quote unquote, setting up at a table, you get to walk around and take a look at stuff. But for us, most of the time, we will actually just set up because we have that small advantage. And then if we're set up right at the front, people have to come to the entrance. They automatically see us first. And so because our inventory is so vast and we have all different types of ranges, we kind of capture a lot of people. So then when there's a lot of people at our tables, so to speak, then people want to see, oh, whoa, there's some crazy stuff here. It's not, you know, it's not like some of these other people. Yeah, right, right. Yeah, you skip it. Right. No, that makes sense to me. You mentioned something brief in passing, and I didn't even think about this. But yeah, with Beckett now, I think, I guess it's official. I haven't heard much in regards to PSA taking over and whether that's actually going through. But it looks like everything is going through. Did you notice, other than them not doing grading on site, was there anything else that you noticed now that they're under the umbrella of Collectors, Inc.? I mean, there's nobody there for me to talk to to ask any questions because we didn't do anything on site there. Even PSA, they were just doing sort of takeaway. They're not doing it there, but because they're in California anyway. I know PSA was set up in the other room. There were like two rooms. OK. And they were set up over there, and their line was still pretty extremely long because I wanted to go over there to just get an auto grade on this Barry Sanders rookie that I got that was autographed. And I wanted to just get the 10 auto designation because it's already a 10. But having it a 1010, I think would be good. But then after looking at what the pricing would be and expedited and all this stuff, I just said, forget it. I'll just wait. Yes. We all heard PSA's backlogged. And I'm not sure if you heard this the most recent episode, but Will's a huge fan of PSA now because his latest submission came back really well. Biggest hater to biggest fan. It's amazing how a couple 10s changes his mind. You know what that means, though. It could go the other way just as quick, right? So this time, it'll take six months for him to get his cards back instead of a month and a half. Which is insane. Of course, I mentioned it on the last pod episode. That's the submission. I didn't give anything, give any cards, but you're a part of that group. So you're lucky that you got some cards back. I'm quite happy with those. I went seven for 14. And I already knew some of those would not be 10s. But the ones that came back 10s, I was like, that's great. I'll take it. Nice. Nice. All right, so well, speaking of our friend Roy, who did the submission for our group, last episode, I was talking to him about the Pokemon card market in 2026 to date. And it looks like the momentum has carried over into the new year because 2025 was white hot. Are you finding the same for the sports card market in general? And just from your experience at the West Coast Card Show, did you see there's a certain amount of buzz still in the air? Sports cards, still crazy. This show specifically, I think a lot of people are buying. There was no issue with people coming to buy stuff. People's showcases getting emptied out quite quickly. Even the Thursday preview night and stuff like that, there's a lot of dealer to dealer stuff. People were buying out. I sold a lot of stuff and traded away a lot of stuff in the first day. And actually, the problem was more trying to replenish things. Whereas the last show I was at at West Coast, I mean, there was so much stuff flowing that I could sell something and then buy a bunch of stuff and literally sell it again, or trade it very, very quickly. This time, a lot of people just didn't want to sell certain things. Because for instance, if you're talking about show hay, let's talk about show hay. You pull up a comp and you go, here, I'm going to give you 100% comps, and I don't want to sell it. Because next week it's going to be- Right, it's going to go up. Yeah. So what's the number? And some of the numbers I was getting, it was like crazy. People were like, I want 125%. I want- Wow. Yeah. That's insane. So stuff that's numbered, I mean, I'm not even talking about boom and chrome autos. I'm talking about tops gold pitching, tops gold hitting, like the paper ones that were graded. I remember on the last day, this one guy came, he's like, okay, I saw it, I'm interested. He's like, the last comp was 5,000 a week ago, but I want 6,000. I was like, how does- I don't know how that works, right? And he goes, well, it's going to be that in a couple weeks. And I said, well, okay. I couldn't really argue because it's not- like I would have been willing to maybe pay the 5K, but to build in that thing already, it's kind of nuts. Now, not to be fair, there was a comp to support it and that card doesn't come up in a 10 very often. But still, how do you build in that price? And then, unless you like super believe, it's not that I don't believe. Obviously, show his the face of baseball. His stuff just keeps going up. His Bowman Chrome PSA 10 batting is up to 4,500 or something crazy. And the population is super high. I mean, even I was looking at comps just to kind of figure out what kind of thing I was going to do for pick one. And I just gave up on that because the numbers are so different even within like week to week. So, that's why I don't worry about show his stuff, like any show his stuff I have. If I end up trading it or changing, trading, selling, whatever it is, and if people don't want to buy it or trade for it at whatever the value is, which I feel like now, I'm pretty reasonable. I'm like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You're like, I feel like I'm pretty reasonable at 100% comps. Yeah. And this stuff I have too is like, it's not always comparable, right? Because I'll get something that's lower number and lower pop, stuff like that, and go, you know, I don't even have to explain. To people, I go, buddy, if you don't want it, it's fine. And then he'll come to me like a month from now, he goes, yo, DC, I want this car now. I go, yeah, and it's like 20% increase, 25% increase, 100% increase. I know, I mean, Otani is Otani, but how about the other cards? Is it kind of similar in that sense where, obviously not to extend of Otani cards, but are you noticing that vendors or sellers are negotiating harder now? You know what I mean? They are negotiating harder. I mean, and this has been a trend for a while, partly because of the whole repacker thing. Don't get me wrong, I mean, I deal with repackers too, because, you know, sometimes when I go to a show, it's like I don't have enough, well, I bring funds with me, but if all of a sudden I can get into something bigger by just like mass dumping some stuff, like liquid stuff, I mean, it's good stuff, but if they're going to pay like 90% or like 90 something percent, then, you know, go ahead, right? It's just a quick flip. I'm just going to compound my cash, my buying ability, and then save up for something that I really, really want. And like, I think that's what it is. Now, when I want something, I'll end up paying. It's not even about numbers anymore, like where it's like, oh, I got this for like, you know, 80% comps or 85% comps, because some of the stuff that I'm getting is really not comparable, so to speak, because I'm trying to find stuff that people don't have so I can kind of dictate the price later myself. Yeah, it definitely gets tricky when it's like really low numbered, for sure. And you brought up repackers, and I know we talked about it in previous episodes too. Is that still a thing? Like, do you see the presence of repackers still at shows? And is there anything else you notice at shows that are, it's a little bit different this time around, or you see like something growing at these shows, whether they're a certain kind of seller or anything else like that? So repackers are still there. I would say most of the time the repackers try to get everything done on the preview night. Okay. There are some dealers too that are basically trying to pad their own showcases and stuff like that. But a lot of the times it's repackers on the first night, just trying to grab whatever they can before the show starts because once the show starts, them sitting down and trying to comp everything when there's more people walking around is a little bit more difficult. Some of these guys like, they're smart, like we'll set up an appointment even before the show starts in the hotel and we'll kind of hear before we go, hear some stuff. Like there's always a couple of guys that I deal with right when we get there. Okay. It's good. But definitely the trend seems to be it's a lot harder to buy more stuff later on. Interesting. I guess like, I haven't bought any large collections. Sometimes people come to me and they go here, here's all my slabs. And then I'll kind of cherry pick the ones I want, but then I'll pay stronger on them versus someone coming to me with like Eli's, I don't know, he's really good at attracting those kinds of people, but someone will come with like a container, like a tub. Okay. The tub will have like binders of Star Wars mixed in with like 1960 top set. Interesting. You know, like Marvel cards. Like he loves that stuff. Like he subbed so much stuff to CGC, comics, stuff like that. And he gets all those things. Whereas, you know, Martin and I are, you know, we're just trying to focus picking up more goats and stuff. So like pick up like Kobe's, Jordan's and stuff like that. And the prices of those have gone up quite a lot. Like from last year to this year, even for the last three months, it's quite crazy what the pricing is of Jordan autos and Kobe autos. So goats are still hot. Goats is always the way to go. Yeah. But I feel like it's one of those things, right? Like it's a way to go, but it gets higher and higher and then you're at a point where you're like- All the more reason to get it now while it goes. It's goats and Mario Pikachu. They just, it doesn't come down. Yeah. I mean, was it 18,000 to 28,000 in a couple of months or whatever? Yeah, that's ridiculous. I don't know what's going on. But when you were telling me about the Otani comps and, you know, people wanting 125%, that's kind of like the Pokemon market and like, you know, those more rare Pokemon cards. So I guess that's just where we are now in the hobby, right? Like that's why it's so hot. Definitely, I find the sellers, I mean, the people that are coming to the table that are not set up as dealers. Yeah. When they come to the table, it's not where before where people just came, okay, you know, I need some cash and let me just, you know, clear you out kind of thing. Obviously there are some people that are, you know, they're happy to be making a certain margin because, oh, these are Pokemon I found in my house from like 1999 when I was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. And, you know, they're taking like, I don't know, like 400, 500% profit and just happy with it to get it out of the house and not deal with it. And then there's other people who are just like, well, I think it's gonna go up again. So I want this. I go, well, if that's the case, you need to retail it out and you still need to locate the person that's willing to pay that. Otherwise, you're just gonna keep holding onto it and every time the price goes up and not sell it, you're just gonna have the cardboard. So, you know, you can't have it both ways, so to speak. Yes, yeah. I mean, obviously there's a seller's remorse sometimes. If we all talked about the cards that we sold too soon or whatever, we all have stories like this. But at the end of the day, my question is, what did you do with the money you had at the time? Because if you didn't spend it or bought something else, then that's just foolish, right? Because you lose already just from inflation. But if you took that money and you reinvested it over and over and over again, then would you not have done well? Yeah, we're learning lots here. I hope people are paying attention. But it made me think of another question. In terms of people trying to sell or set up at shows even, you know, are they primarily, you know, store owners or people that have been in the hobby for a while or do you see like new collectors, like, you know, trying their hand at vending, right? Do you see a different mix or? In the US, it's hard for me to tell because I'm not from there. So I'm not as familiar with, you know, who owns a store or whatever. I mean, I do see a lot of the same people from show to show, not only within West Coast. I mean, just in the US in general, there's certain people that are just buyers all the time. A lot of social media influencers and stuff like that, you'll see too. But I would say from local shows, like in Toronto and stuff like that, I'll see people that are definitely who are new and are not dealers. You can already tell by just the way they interact with people. It's not dealer-ish. I don't know. Well, you tell me what's dealer-ish, I'm intrigued. I think the thing is like everyone now, like even when you look on Facebook, when people post like, oh, I'm only paying X percentage, I'll pay X percentage because everybody thinks like, oh, as a dealer, you know, you're buying stuff so you can resell it or, you know, make whatever the arbitrage is. So I think a lot of people try to do this, but the problem is, well, this is just sales in general. If you're not a good salesperson, it's harder for you to sell something unless you have something, unless you have a product that is so good and it's priced correctly that someone else will pay. The thing is with a lot of these new guys is that they just think it's easy where you can just put all your cards out and someone will buy them. But if you have stuff that people don't want, people aren't going to buy it. Also the fact of the matter is, is you have, say you have two showcases, but you only have like one or two key cards. Part of the problem is people may see the majority of the cards, which are not useful to the population. They may not see those key cards, but the fact of the matter is, is like the dealer has paid or the fake dealer has kind of paid for a table to sell their stuff. But there's still a breakeven point. And I think too, the people that are not doing it all the time or regularly are so attached to the card that they may or may not sell it unless someone egregiously overpays. I think the mentality is very different. That's why there's people that go to shows that set up a show and there's why there's people that walk the show. I mean, don't get me wrong. I think there's people that walk the show specifically that are sharks that are just looking for things and are able to locate something like that. But I will tell you specifically the show, Martin and I, there was this guy who was not set up, but he had like really, really nice stuff. So we're super excited. All Kobe stuff, all Jordan stuff, all like high end, all these different things. But the thing is, so we're excited. We're like, okay, we're going to go get a bunch of liquid things, right? Except he would only sell it to us at a hundred percent comps. Now I'm excited because I see the cards. I'm not excited because now I'm like, well, what's the point of me doing this? I'm buying something to, I'm hoping to hold it for, I don't know how long before it goes up again, or, you know, I want it for my PC, right. Which I grabbed a couple items, which, which I'll show you a couple of later, but yeah, there were a couple of guys like this and you know, they're, they're actually getting some of the collectors that want to buy because that's sort of what we're doing. Like when we, when we retail out something is we're looking for a specific buyer, the buyer that's going to pay the max, the max money for, you know, something that we've located. And I always treat it like this. When I talk about vintage, it's like, you know, a lot of times I might be on the higher end of the spectrum when I, when I use a comps to, to post, post a number on a card, but I, I treat it like this where I've relocated that the nicest looking one. So that's why it's priced higher. And basically I explained to these people that, you know, basically I've done the work for you. You don't have to go find the card, the nicer centering one, the nice colored one, the nicer copy you're just paying me a fee, quote unquote, to go locate it for you. And I think that that particular market is, is what my niche is because I have a lot of repeat people coming to me and asking me to locate cards for them. Oh, okay. Yeah, no, that's, yeah, that's well, one really effective way I think to be a dealer. So yeah, no. And you know what, this is all really good information for me because I'll be setting up at the expo for the first time this coming April. So I have no idea what I'm doing. I don't even have a lot of inventory. Most of my, most of my time there will be making content, which is where my value is. And you got it. Of course I expect you to come visit our booths. If I can get out of my own booth. Like hey, you need to eat lunch, right? Do you eat? We don't even eat lunch a lot of the time when we're there. It's crazy. Like literally it's nonstop and you might get a chance to go to the bathroom once. Well, you know, if you do have a quick, a quick minute drop by, but do you know what section you guys are set up in? Are you set up in the TCG section or are you going to be set up in a, in a, I have no idea. And because you guys are new dealers, you might get stuck in the autograph pavilion room. Oof. Let's see. Well, I feel like Will is hoping that he paid his dues by setting up at the very corner of the show at the collector super show this past couple of weeks now. But I think that's why he got in because he was vending at that show and then they just gave him an application and that's how I got in through Will. So that's just kind of worked out that way. But where we are, I have no idea. I guess we'll find out soon. But it'll be fun regardless for me anyways, the first time experience. And I was going to ask you, but you kind of gave me a lot of tips already, just just in this conversation alone, but any, any tips from you in terms of, you know, whether setting up for the first time, I know Will gave his tips based on his recent experience. But for you, you already mentioned a couple, any other tips that I should be aware of or any first time vendors should be aware of to have a good weekend setting up at a show? You should price all your cards. Like sticker it and just, yeah, because I know some dealers do this and this is like a pet peeve of mine. They don't price their card because they want someone to offer on something. But the problem is if you have no reference point, you lose out on a lot of people and you actually piss a lot of people off. Because what will happen is if you don't know, if you're not prepared and you didn't price your stuff, what do you end up doing? Oh, let me look up the comp while the person is there. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that's a bad, that's a bad scenario. Like if you price say 90% of your cards and 10% are not priced, most of the time it's because your inventory is either being shuffled or those cards are like make an offer kind of cards. But you can't have a make an offer on every single card. Gotcha. Yeah. You know what? I agree because I don't as a buyer or as a potential buyer, I hate stalls where there's no price. I kind of walk by. Sure. How do you even start the conversation? He's like, so how much is that? Oh, I don't know. Let me, let me, let me see. What are you offering? Yeah. And that's not the wage. That's not the way it should work. I think that that's a terrible way to try to do business. That being said, if you price your cards, don't price them ridiculously high. What will happen is that people will see the price. Like whenever I look at something and I see the price, I'll look at like a card that's like comped all the time, like a very common card. Yeah. So if the price is so off, I might look at one more card just to see if that's a trend. And if that trend is there, I just stopped looking at that case. Yes. You just assume everything else is overpriced too. Yeah. I think that's bad. Now on the flip side, if it's a dealer that just never changed the pricing from show to show, that could be a way for you to get a deal on something too. But you know, I'm just saying more often than not, I mean, this seems to be a trend where people are priced 25 to 100% over what a comp is. And it's difficult because some people are just really set on their ways and really, really stubborn. I find those people are just harder to deal with. I mean, the reason why I do well is because I feel I'm pretty reasonable. And then if there's something that you come see and you show me, you know, DC, your number is a little off here. Can we work on something? No. Then I'm open to the suggestion. It's just sometimes if I don't want to sell it, then I just won't sell it. But I'll say it in a nice way. I'm like, you know, I appreciate you. I think this one I'll just hold off on. But I think some people are just really, really bad when it comes to that. When it comes to communicating? Oh yeah. Communication is key. Communication is key. I agree. You know, and that's the first thing. I think one thing that Will said made a lot of sense was that you can't really judge a person by the way they look or some of the cards. People can come and I talk to everyone. Doesn't matter if I think a deal is going to happen or not. It's more of just making a conversation. We're all part of the hobby and we all have similar interests. So, you know, talking about it is great. I think interaction, I mean, even with kids, I mean, I interact with kids too. We talk about different stuff. The only kids I don't really like are the ones that are doing trade-off challenges that they think they come and I go, bro, you were here like five minutes ago. You don't remember. Like, I feel like I'm just a face. Right, right. First of all, you're offering me the same card. I already told you I don't think this is going to work out for us, but you were literally here like five minutes ago and you don't remember. You know what? Some of these kids, they just have ADHD, okay? But then there's some that I can really respect, like, I mean, you can see the hustle, which is great, but then there's something different when you're bringing me like a common, trying to get like a slab or like, I remember I used to have those slab boxes in the front. This kid bought a card for me and tried to sell it back to me. I was like, you still have the sticker on it. This is my card. He had no clue. Yeah. So those are kind of funny. The mat thing, the comfort mats that we're talking about, those work. They do, eh? Yeah. And especially if you're standing a lot, it definitely makes a big difference. Like, the Dolly's booth always has those mats. You know what? I'm going to look for anti-fatigue mats. Nice. Yeah. So that's a big deal because walking on concrete the whole time, you're going to feel it. Well, one more question then, in terms of, cause you know, I was there for six hours at the Collector Super Show and you know, I was able to rest at Will's booth every once in a while. I brought my kid and so he loved it and I was joking on that episode that his favorite part was just hanging out at the booth, you know, just sitting and, you know, resting a little bit, but I was like exhausted. And to do that for multiple days, like what is the trick or is there anything you could do to prepare? Or I know you work out, so like, do I have to do this or, you know, what's the trick to like not dying after each day of the show? Definitely getting good, good night's sleep. Like, I mean, we don't, we try not to stay out super, super late anymore because like the days usually start for us at, like we would get up at say six 30 or seven o'clock and then get to the, get ready to get to the show. Each show is different, right? Yeah. So we get set up earlier so that we can walk around and look at stuff. But I'd say at least get six, seven hours because it is draining. Yeah. Always have water. Like we always bring like a, like a case of water into the booth and then got to stay hydrated because you're talking a lot. Right, right. Big deal. Yeah. I find a lot of times we don't eat, like we're so focused on doing everything else that sometimes which is bad. So, and different venues allow you to do different stuff. Like, like this particular venue, the one in Ontario, they don't let you bring food inside. No, they don't. You have to eat, you have to eat the food from their vendors and everyone was allowed to bring one bottle of water inside, which was very interesting. Yeah. But the other shows seem to be like pretty good when it comes to food vendor and stuff like that. So that's part, part of the deal that they made with the venue that they can generate income this way too. But I would say, you know, have a protein bar, be, be ready. It's like it is, it can get draining, but honestly when you're in the middle of it, the time flies. Adrenaline and everything else. Yeah. Looking forward to it. And you know, we'll have to have you back on obviously again, but I'm pretty sure I'll be attending the Anaheim show at West Coast Card Show this summer. So we'll, we'll, we'll definitely keep in touch and, and I'll ask you questions on what can I do to prepare as a, you know, person that's just walking around looking for, for deals I'm sure on the other side of the table. So this year is going to be a lot of fun. I'm doing things for the first time. I think I'm going to start a series on my Five Card Guys YouTube channel, like things I'm start doing for the first time in the hobby and then, you know, just kind of seeing how it goes. But yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. I'm, I'm excited to, you know, I always enjoy connecting with people from Toronto elsewhere. Do you know what I mean? It's, it's just feels like home away from home when you're with that community. So absolutely. But thanks for sharing everything. You're not done sharing because our next segment that we'll go to right now is show and tell. So loyal listeners of the pod will know whenever you're on DC, I always have this segment because you bring back something cool to see or, or your, you made some really awesome deals. and I'd love to hear the story behind some of those deals. So yeah, take it away. What kind of cards did you pick up on this most recent trip and yeah, words of that. So first of all, I would say some of the cards that I got, they didn't come back with me because they got sent to BGS right away. Either they get graded or subgraded and stuff like that. I'm sure you'll show some of these because I sent you the photos. Yep. But... So you dropped it off at BGS while you're at the show and then you left? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, gotcha. So this way, I can try to get some of these back before the national without paying like the one day turnaround kind of stuff. I mean, the next show I'm doing in the US is not until July, which is the Anaheim show, like a West Coast card show in Anaheim. I mean, in between, we're doing Edmonton, Okay. Toronto and Montreal, the Montreal Expos. So I think those are gonna be more probably buying shows, whereas we'll try to get more inventory just to get bigger cards and go out and trade them and stuff like that. But definitely there were a lot of really, really good cards that I got at the show. Okay, yeah. But as I said, some of the cards that I got before, they moved very, very quickly here. Like the Black Label stuff, like I had that Pete Coral Armstrong Refractor Black Label, that one moved the first day. And I had the Aaron Judge Black Label, that the Prism, the Topps Chrome Prism Black Label, which moved. So it was great. There's a lot of different stuff. I also gave my Ronald Acuna Gold, Topps Chrome Gold Black Label to Alt. And right now it's currently on auction because they have the Topps Chrome Super Fractor. Of Acuna. Yeah. Wow. So the guy came by and he saw it in the booth, in the case, and he goes, hey, you know what, I was chatting with those guys already because every time they come see me, they see some stuff. And he was like, hey, this would pair well with the Super Fractor, which we have. So I'll do some cross-marketing. So right now they started doing some marketing. I posted them my story. Alt did a small little, like a video thing, marketing both parts. So we find out in a couple of days how that goes. I mean, it's different. So. You never consigned with Alt before? No, only with Golden. But you know, my luck with Golden is very interesting. Every time I put up Otani stuff, the guy gets injured the day before the auction ends. Both times. No way. But to be fair, I was also sold that, got rid of that Wanderer's Super Fractor at a good time. So you get some, you win some, you lose some, but at the end of the day, still okay. But yeah, so I'll just go through what stuff. And I guess if you want to mention the things that didn't make it back, but anyway, here. So here's the first one. This is for Will. Who is that? Ricky the Dragon Steamboat. Steamboat, yeah, nice. On Card Auto. I was very adamant about having the On Card Auto. I mean, this was my favorite wrestler when I was a kid. My brother and I used to watch a lot of WWF back in the day. I love Ricky. Yeah, so that was amazing. His penmanship is actually really nice too. That's for the more, yeah, no, it's. So that's for the PC? Yeah, that's not going anywhere. I don't think I can, I think I can, I mean, I paid 25 bucks for it. Didn't matter what the cost was, but actually I was quite happy with that. So then I did a deal. Like I acquired a Hank Aaron rookie. It was SGC3, I think it was. Okay. And basically at the end of the show, this one guy came and I got a couple of things from him. First of all, it was a Jose Ramirez Topps Chrome Black Refractor Auto. So it was out of 100. So I got that from him for a pretty good deal. And then I ended up trading that just last week on Veriswap. I traded it and I got a couple of things. And with a Boba Shett Orange Mini and Anthony Edwards Hoops. And I got a Clayton Kershaw Rookie X-Fractor Auto BGS9. Wow. That's a crazy card. Because we're doing a lot of shows in LA. I mean, I'm targeting LA cards, like LA players. Yamamoto, Otani, Kobe, LeBron. Like those are really, really good cards to have. But that guy's a lock for a hall of fame. And the pop is very, very low on that card. The X-Fractor is Bowman? Yeah, Bowman X-Fractor Rookie. Bowman first. Nice. Yeah. Love it. So it's pretty good. See if I can bump that to a nine five. Of course, you got to have at least one crack candidate. Of course, there's always value. Yeah. So at the end, this guy had some other stuff, which I'm going to show you. It's raw. So I liked it at first. I go, oh, I'm interested in this stuff. But he was really adamant. He would only trade. He wouldn't sell it. Oh, interesting. Okay. So I said, okay. So I pulled out a bunch of stuff and we came to a deal. So I feel like I got a lot of value, but especially after, because they're raw, when these are graded, these can be something. So. So he only had raw cards on him. Oh, no, he had some graded stuff, but I mean, these are specifically 90s, 90s and grits. Okay. And stuff like that. So the first one is this Larry Johnson credentials. Right. Which is, it's a crazy card. It's numbered. All these numbered inserts from 90s can be really, really good because they're all low pop. Yeah. But I think as a PSA, 10 is like 900, right? Yeah. It's a good play. There's EX Century Jordan. Okay. Very cool. Looks clean. Yeah. I mean, like I said, I've always told you guys, I can see centering and I can see if there's a crease, but I have no idea about everything else. So like I take shots and if it works, it works, right? So I got not one, I got two. For the same guy? Yeah, Jordan. Oh, wow. Okay. So these are all for the same guy. Excellent. I got this Covey refractor. Okay. It's nice. It's from 2000 something. Yeah. But it's nice. And then I got, this one is pretty cool. Another Covey. Wow. Yeah. I love seeing these old cards. Yeah. Me too. Inserts. I mean, like regardless, once I slab them, they're still gonna be good, but they're gonna be worth more than what I got them raw. So instantly already just trade value wise, I'm gonna be up top. Hmm. Just how much on top? This is a very cool card, which I'd never seen until then. It's a Topps Chrome insert, but of the 84 star Jordan. Okay. Right. Yeah. So it's like shiny. Yeah. The funniest part is, it's off center, like it's an original paper. They purposely did a... That's the first thing I said, I go, what is this? So how is the grading company supposed to do? It's like, it's supposed to be like that. So do we give it a nice centering grade or? I have no idea. But again, because I think the card is just like super rare. Yeah. It doesn't, to me, it doesn't matter. But this was the centerpiece of that lot. This is a... Michael Jordan, Topps finest. But the one behind this, it's a no protector, like there's no coating, but it's a double-sided refractor. So it's like... A double-sided refractor, okay. So it's a refractor on this side, but if you look at the back, it's also a refractor. So... That's crazy. As a PSA 9, they're like 3000. Wow. Yeah, as a BGS 95, maybe 4K. So it's just that card alone. Yeah. Right, oh, and I got a numbered LeBron PSA 10 out of like Revolution or something. It's out of 100 and also a Curry out of 100, PSA 10, which I didn't show them, but I mean, I got those. So that was like one of the... I think that was the last deal I did before the show ended. So that was kind of cool. I'm wondering, do you notice at the West Coast Card Show, like these kinds of cards are more likely to appear in shows like this versus anywhere else? I mean... Or were you lucky, you think? I think I might've been lucky. I mean, there's certain vendors that specialize in like 90s inserts and stuff like that. So definitely, that market is crazy. If you see some of these inserts, like these Jordan inserts or Kobe inserts, when they're 10s, the price is like stupid. Like think about like Dunkin' Donuts, Dunkin' Go-Nuts, sorry, Go-Nuts, not Donuts, but Dunkin' Go-Nuts, like the Jordan, the Kobe, like crazy numbers. That's true, yeah. Right, or like those Jordan inserts, like Rockman and like Rain and like all these, Rain Man, like all these different ones from the 90s, when you get them as 10s, they're crazy. East-West, that Kobe Jordan one. Love that one. Yeah, so I mean, I'm starting to delve a little bit into there. Actually, this is a segue into one of the cards that I bought at 100% Comp. It was a Jordan insert. It was a BGS95. It was called Jordan Smooth. Okay. Smooth or Smooth. I don't remember what it was. It was one of the two. Yeah. But I got it just because I figured there'd be someone that would want that card. And that guy that I did this deal with, he wanted that card badly. So that opened up the first deal to get that Jose Ramirez. And then that opened up this whole thing for this. So in fact, even though I did pay like full comp on that, it was worth it just so I can open up and make another deal with somebody else. So sometimes when I acquire something, I don't necessarily have to profit on that particular card, but it can be utilized as a vehicle to help me get something bigger somewhere else. Because I won't make it up there, I'll make it up somewhere else. That's a great tip, yeah. And I think a lot more people need to hear that because we're so transactional just on that one deal. And if you can't profit off of it, then you give up on it so easily. But if you could think a couple steps ahead, like you've laid out here in this example, that's how you can get back some really good cards. So yeah, that's great advice. And even seeing some of those cards gets me excited about the hobby because there's one thing you mentioned with Alt and with VariSwap, as the hobby grows, there's so many more options to deal cards, different ways you could get rid of cards, different ways you can acquire cards, card shows. And so the more options the better at the end of the day, right? And different kinds of cards that you would never see when you see them in person, that's kind of a cool find. It's like finding a treasure in that sense. For sure. And I think people also have to realize that for you to get something good, you have to give up something good too. Right. Right? It makes it difficult for you to give up something that you work like super hard for. I mean, I would say last year when I had to, my 33 Goudy Ruth, the 49 Bowman Jackie and the Hank Aaron that I had, all those had to get part of a deal to get that Willie Mays, six. Right, right. Right? And I didn't wanna give those up, but that was the only way that you could continually upgrade into something bigger, right? Excellent point. So this card I got, again, from the guy that I got the Jordan stuff from where I pretty much paid comps on. So this card is super cool. Oh, great. It's kind of hard. It's a five. Okay. But the autos, the auto 10, all three autos. For the podcast, it's the Larry Bird, the Magic Johnson and Dr. J card. Obviously the rookies for Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, all IP auto. And you just like, you just mentioned all, it got an auto 10 for the three. So the thing, what I like about this is, is that the pen that they use, it's a thin pen. A lot of the copies you see online are the thick, like the fat marker. Right, yeah. It's not as clean as this. I mean, this is the reason why I paid like super strong for this card. Because when you look at the pricing on the comps, they range a little bit. Sure. And the thing is, is that these ones with the thinner auto, I feel are more. you get more. Right. Oh, okay. So I mean, that was a really big card. I really like it. Plus having the the the card grade on it is I think very important because you can see people just get authentic 10 versions, right? But the card is not as nice. So, you know, this, this is a big card for me. You prefer the number on the card rather than the authentic label. Yeah, I think I think when it comes to vintage, people want to know what that grade is. That's that's where you get a lot of value. Yeah, because like an authentic 10 could be like it could be a PSA one, it could be an altered card. Right? But the auto grade itself can be a 10. I think that's what some people do. Yeah, just because aesthetically, it looks nicer. Auto 10. You know, I've done it before, too. Like if I had like a Colby, that was like a seven. Like before I've just done just auto 10s. Right. But I find the trend seems to be that people would prefer to have the the grade as well. Even if the grade is not amazing, super high, right, right. But specifically for vintage, you'll make sense to me. Yeah, yeah, you'll see that people that have a number grade assigned to the card with the auto 10 is a huge, huge difference in price. Well, yeah, I didn't even think about that. But yeah, it makes sense to me when you think about it. Yeah. Awesome. This was a LeBron tops chrome PSA 10. This is a rookie card. Yeah. So classic, basically, like I was saying before, like I have sometimes people ask me to go source out a card for them. That this was a card that someone asked me to source a last expo. Now the crazy part is, is last expo, I actually had this card. And the guy came in, he's like, Oh, let me think about it. And he came back and then I had already traded it. You know, for like, for something in cash, like for actually a PSA nine, LeBron and cash. Right? He came back and goes, Oh my god, I want to give me I'm like, Hey, I offered you something ready. And, you know, you snooze you lose sometimes, right? Just happens that way. And the thing is certain cards you can you can know, like, if you if you scan a room, you'll know that what other people are selling it for if they have it. But you'll also know that no one else will have it like literally at this car show. I went to every booth. Yeah, this was the only vendor that had a LeBron 10. Everyone had LeBron nine fives, or refractor 10s, but not top chrome base 10 base 10. Right. So I was like, super happy to find this. Or for the Yeah, you know, hopefully we work out something in a deal should be. But if not, I mean, either way, this, this card has gone up a lot in the last month. This card has gone up quite a bit. I mean, at the expo, they were just above 10k, like 10,500 CAD. The last ones in the last week have ranged between 11,500 and 13,000. That's crazy. Yeah. So I mean, rebounded nicely. Wow. Yeah. So this is this is like a card where you don't really worry about. I mean, like, everyone can argue Jordan versus LeBron or whatever. But at the end of the day, it's still like a liquid card. Yeah, for sure. For sure. So not worried about that. Got another 52 Bowman mantle. Really nice copy. It's a PSA five. Nice. Yeah. So centering is really good colors really good. Again, I pay super strong on this card. But it's also a card, I will have no issue moving at any point, whether or not it goes into a bigger card or like, you know, like a higher grade mantle, or, you know, I use it just as trade for something bigger, you know, then then it's still worth it. But it's a card that, again, knock on wood really can't go wrong with speaking of which, how is the vintage card market these days? Vintage seems to be going up quite a bit. Just just looking at, for instance, I referenced a couple cards that I've owned before. And I see what the price difference is now. Yeah. Like even the Gaudi Ruth that I that I, you know, had, yeah, at the time was maybe 1514 or 15k us. Now it's closer to 1819 K. Okay. It's only been less than six months. That's crazy. Yeah. But there's a lot of stuff. I mean, plus also the things that are in the media, like you talk about, you know, the big thing with the Honus Wagner. Yeah, that that brings that brings up a lot of stuff. And then, you know, as a side thing, people will talk about mantles and stuff like that. That kind of stuff just, they're not making it anymore. So, you know, when you when you get a nice copy, yeah, and the people that are continually to join the joining the hobby, that these are things that they want. So they'll end up paying for them. Need to get at least one nice vintage card this year. That's one of my goals. But why you gotta, why you gotta keep me accountable. Keep each other accountable. That's the only way. Yeah, it's true. It's true. This is the year. This is the year. Maybe at the national. We'll see. Yeah. But there's one more. Okay, so saying like you have to give up some big pieces to get other big pieces. Okay. Yeah. So that maze that I had the last year, the maze, the 51 maze PSA six. I traded it for this. On card auto bulls uniform 9510 and and some cash to offset. Okay, so the SP authentic is it? Yeah, is SP authentic. It's my first bulls on card auto I've owned a bulls sticker auto before. But this is a beautiful copy. Wow, nice great and everything. Yeah. And and the reason why I made this trade is, it's not big. I didn't love the maze. I love that maze that that maze was like, my best vintage card that I ever owned. Mm hmm. But going to the national, I'm already planning ahead. Specifically, Jordan stuff goes at like ridiculous numbers. They're national. Yeah. So I'm taking that to the national and I will probably do like a combo trading cash or something. But I, I think that I can get upwards to 35 to 40,000 what? In value? That's crazy. Yeah. So, you know, I think stuff you can't go wrong with is Jordan stuff. I mean, even at the show, like the stuff I didn't get to show you like it went somewhere like I picked up a Jordan SGC six, which which my my buddy, he asked me for, he's always looking for Jordan. So like, sometimes when I go to the shows, I go, okay, let me source on, let me source one. So I grabbed that for him. And he's like, super happy. And then I also picked up a BGS eight, which is odd, because I've never seen something without subs before. I don't understand why there were no subs on this BGS. So I sent it to BGS to get subs. Now, if I get I think the centering looks pretty good. If it's at least a centering nine, that's going to be golden. But I also take a chance that maybe they bump up one of the half rings. Maybe, maybe it comes back an eight five, but even as an eight, having the sub grades, I got a pretty good deal on this. Because you know, my argument was like, there's no subs. Right. And I'm just basically going off I appeal, but I got a good deal on that card. So either way, I'm going to do fine. Excellent. I can't wait to see what that comes back. Now I'm really curious. I have a bunch of raw cards that that'll come back. I think that they'll be pretty good. So pretty excited about but those I mean, the other card that I picked up during the the train night was that Aaron judge all rise. The alter egos. Oh, you got one? Yeah. Yeah. The I interviewed the artist. Yeah. So it's so hard to find. Oh, impossible to get as peas for sure. I mean, the raw card. The last one was 3500. That's crazy. I know I want one. You might be able to have this one later. So you sent it for grading that card? Yeah. Okay. That one. Plus, I showed you off off air the those illustrator cards I got a botanian judge. Right. Case hits. Those are those are crazy. I actually got those in Dallas at a local card shop. So, you know, there's definitely when we go to different cities, we find random spots sometimes and we were able to find things. So those are great. So super happy. I think the other the other card I got at the train I was that Nick Kurtz tops chrome purple, but as a BGS 10 pop one. Okay, so see if I can get lucky and change that to a black label. If not, it doesn't matter. Because like as a BGS 10 is a pop one. But those are very, very difficult to jam. I'm sure we're gonna do the last thing is that Kobe got the Kobe rookie refractor Bowman rookie refractor, which is nice. The Kobe Bowman rookie refractor. Okay. Yeah. So I guess I sent you the photos. You can take a look. But I'll pop it up. Yeah, I'll pop it up. Yeah, once I put it this clip on YouTube. But yeah, excellent pickups, man. And always have a good time seeing what what you pick up and gets me excited for the next show. Because you know, you're always about looking to collect more cards. That's what we do. Right. So always. Thank you so much for that. And let's Yeah, we could wrap up this episode with our regular weekly segment we call pick one. And I usually always let the guests go first. Guest hosts go first. And I know, fair, you're saying you're having a bit of a difficult time. And I was telling you are overthinking it. But now you said you have one. So let's hear it. I'm excited for it. So sticking on the Jordan theme, I was just looking at some comps and some cards that I would love to have. I just don't know if I'll end up getting it. So they both hover around 40 45,000. Oh, okay. So would you rather have a 86 Fleer Jordan nine five true gem BGS nine five true gem? Yeah. Or a PSA for 84 star Jordan. Oh, man, I don't know what the Jordan market that well and like the nuances between star rookie versus a Fleer rookie. So I'm going with like, you know, my gut and personal preference, obviously, right? My gut is saying this is the Fleer is this the iconic card this I would be happy with having that and especially with the BGS nine five true gem like you know, I'm a you know me I'm a BGS fan, you know, fanboy for BGS. So like, it's I think it's easy for me knowing like other people are probably yelling at the things like, well, I can't believe you chose that over the the star rookie, which is a real rookie and it doesn't matter if it's a PSA for I can hear it already. Okay, guys, but I am going with my gut my personal preference. I would love to have a Fleer 98 86 1986 Fleer Rookie of Jordan one day and BGS nine five cherry on top. So yeah, that's my pick. I mean, I thought like I felt pretty good about this pick one after figuring out because I was struggling to to to make a decision myself. I mean, the thing is with me and sticking to the whole aesthetic the way the card looks being a nine five it like the centering is a big deal to me. I think I think it looks great. I mean, if you're talking about PC, I'm definitely picking the 86 Fleer. Okay, yeah. But if you're talking about from an investment standpoint, that the trajectory of the that star Jordan just keeps going up and up in value. Is that right? I haven't caught being keeping track. So yeah, interesting to hear that. So I mean, that being said, I mean, I feel like I'm young here like when I give you both sides of the story. You know, but I feel that if it was for PC, definitely I would keep the Fleer. But if it was like an investment play, I would take the star Jordan. And then by would buy a Fleer one later. I'm seeing the card ladder comments. You're right. It's just going up into the right. Yeah, it's it's crazy for that card specifically. And it seems like the population is starting to increase a little bit. I think a lot of people are just digging these up in the last like, you know, couple years. Okay. But if you look, there was that BGS six, five, that is also around 40k or something around it, but it's less than the four. Wow, that's crazy. So tough. Yeah, I can buy that card later. If I can buy the Fleer later after selling the one on one and have like an extra 20k or something. That's not that's a no brainer to me. I like it. I'm sticking with the BGS nine five Fleer though, because it's my PC. And that's what I'm doing. But good. I like that one. All right. Mine is I kind of teased it to you off there. But it's Otani again. Okay. And it's a general one because I know you said your issue was like trying to comp out things that are similar in price. But I'm like, you could just choose general, you know, you don't have to have be specific with the console, my pick one. is general so like would you rather have a 2019 Otani autograph card okay and I picked 2019 because you got to consider it's a non-rookie years a year after but his autographs are his rookie the way he signed when he is a rookie a lot of 2019 okay so that's one side on the other side 2024 autograph card of Otani first year as a Dodger which one would you rather have what's that sound for because I own some of these cards so these are all both on card autos yeah and and like all everything the same like they're not numbered the same yeah just let's say the comps are the same in terms of value too but what would you think you know you rather hold on to you know I mean what's what's the image similar both batting yeah but ones in a Dodgers uniform the others in the angels I hate the rook did the Dodger I mean let's we you know as Toronto but and you know the autograph is obviously different for the Dodgers you know autograph to me is a big deal okay so I think I'm gonna go with the 2019 mm-hmm 2019 yeah I you know why I asked this because I'm I want to know Tanya you know I said earlier I'm gonna pick up a vintage card I also want to pick out Tanya Otto but I don't know two of them it's possible with my budget so you know whatever comes first whatever the better deal is I'm gonna choose but with the Otani specifically I'm always flipping back and forth like the first years of Dodgers you know that's gonna like if there's a lot of Dodgers fans out there you hold on to it for a while it's gonna do fine but I do like the 2019 autograph though that you know first year auto there's something about it that kind of differentiates it from other Otani autographs more complicated I love it a lot more I mean I don't like the new auto like that's a third that's a third iteration third yes that's true yeah so definitely I like the older auto yeah the Dodgers uniform does give him you know there's a lot of people that want to collect like first year of that yeah but I still think the auto to me is a bigger deal all right I'm gonna focus on 2019 autos now from now on because you can buy the point he's got 2020 autos too that have the some of them do yes you're right you're right you might be able to get a little bit cheaper but not much cheaper yeah you know what you're gonna find a if you find a card 2019 2020 and you find a vendor selling it expect 125% comps all right I'll sell you one I have 125% okay things you learned that next week you can only say that for a few people and Otani is definitely one of them but anyway DC great to have you on I always appreciate you and and you know you're not gonna be a stranger so we'll have you back on soon thanks for having me hey thanks for listening to cards to the moon we'd really appreciate you subscribing to our podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts and you can also connect with each of us on instagram at five card guys or you can follow young at integrity sports cards or John at trade you at recess you can also check us out at five card guys calm thanks again and hope to connect soon