Eye Appeal Showdown + Rookie Cards Holding You Back? +The Freedom of New Lanes | The Hangover Ep. 4

The hangover. Man, those are some good tunes right there. Everybody, welcome to episode number four of the Hangover. My name is Jeremy Lee. I'm joined by Mr. Joseph Perosif and Mr. David Chase. What's up gentlemen? How we feeling today? What's going on, David? Things are going well. Just still recovering from, from Saturday. Such an epic show. So I'm ready for this, I'm ready for the Hangover. We had Joe, for the first half of, of last Saturday's show. Joe, what's going on with you, buddy? How you feeling today? I'm doing real good, thanks. Just, just enjoyed, enjoyed the whole show. Even though I wasn't on the whole show and ready to do a little this and a little that on the old Hangover. The old Hangover. Here we are. This is the week of June 8th. We will be, we are recording on Tuesday the 9th, dropping on Wednesday the 10th. Welcome again everybody. We're going to start, we have a couple things we're going to discuss today. We're going to start with reflections on this past Saturday's episode of Sports Cards Live. Another epic episode. If you didn't see it, you can go watch that over on the sports cards live YouTube channel. This episode is exclusive to the Sports Card Clubhouse. The Hangover in its entirety is exclusive to the Sports card clubhouse platform. YouTube podcast. Actually the podcast is on its own podcast called the Hangover. I think, I think that's the way we're doing it. We'll figure it out. Hopefully you're listening to this. If you're listening to this, you know where you're listening to this as we speak right now. But we're gonna, we'll have some reflections, we're gonna share some cards, a little bit of show and tell and then we have a topic that we are going to jump into. So yeah, that was a crazy episode on Saturday. I had a great time. We, we went. You know, it's weird how all of a sudden Sports Cards Live has turned into has, has gone from being like a three hour marathon to a four hour like jumbo marathon. We go, we're going longer, we're having lots of talk about this chat is staying involved all the way through. Pretty epic actually. But David, any sort of highlights to you for, for you, anything that kept you thinking after the episode was done running through your head, anything that stuck out to you that you want to raise here today? I mean the whole episode keeps ringing in my head. But like what I love, I mean we have a fiery Jeremy Lee recently like these last Two episodes. Jeremy, did you have some extra coffee or something? Because I'm loving when we have a fiery Jeremy. And I mean, I've gone from my. My usual two cups a day to three sometimes, but that's. That's about it. You know, it's funny because, you know, Adam and I do the fanatics collect premiere show one Thursday a month. And it's funny because that show goes for five to six hours and at that fourth, fifth, sixth hour, I call it like, I get loopy, you know, I start getting sillier. And maybe in that fourth hour, that's what's happening. I'm having that same. The same effect is. Is taken over my brain that does during those epic marathon live streams. So maybe it's just a. A function of how long we're going, but I'm glad you like it, David. I'm glad you do. Anything else on your mind? No, but I'm just telling you like those. The end of the show, the last like, hour or two, I'm getting the most comments and people kind of texting me and stuff about that end when you are getting a little loopy and just extra passionate and a little fiery and kind of combating, you know, even us regulars and everything. And I just think it's really fun and I'm just loving it. I just, I. I think that these last two weeks have just been epic. Yeah, I've. I've really enjoyed them too, so. Yeah, I'm glad you are. How about you, Joe? Anything sort of stick out to you? Anything you want to build on from that? Yeah, well, I enjoyed the guest we had, Chris, and, and you know, breath of fresh air for young, young sensibility in the hobby. And I liked the conversation, you know, about kind of considerations of, you know, his desire to go into a brick and mortar store and kind of like that more traditional context of, Of a card shop. And we talked a little bit about other platforms and obviously hybrids are all around us now and then. Although I was not present for the, let us call it the get off my Lawn J. Lee section of the show, I definitely enjoyed it. And it got into some stuff about how we understand ourselves as collectors and our own identities and maybe I think to capture a little bit of what I got from at least one of your rants, it's like you do you and I'll do me, and let's. Let's not necessarily project our own sensibilities of our collecting style onto other people. Yeah, I think that that sums it up pretty well. It's Nice to be open minded. And you know, even in today's episode here, I do think, you know, we'll, I'll perhaps present a, a topic or an idea, something going through my mind that is, you know, maybe a little bit contradictory to some of that because it might come across as a little bit judgmental on certain approaches. But listen, this is the hangover and I do, I am willing to present theories that I think are out there and if they do challenge certain people's approaches, you know, that's okay. Take it with a grain of salt. This doesn't mean that I, again that I'm fully, I'm passionate about the ideas but with a grain of salt I don't, I do think everyone has a right obviously to collect how they want even if it's not for me. So in a, in a, a different setting, perhaps another discussion, I could definitely be lighter on my, on my opinions, let's say. So why don't we start with some cards here and I'm going to start with the ones that, that David you had sent me. Actually. I'm gonna just get my things organized here quickly. So. Yeah, David, you have gone and provided me with two cards. Before I share either of them, why don't you just explain what we're doing here? Yeah, so I, throughout the last few years I've tried to collect 58 tops, Jim Brown rookies. And I, what I've been just trying to find are centered versions of those cards which are not easy to find. They're obnoxiously annoying to find. And then I, at one point I had about four or five different copies. I ended up selling them. A lot of them were like in like four or five grades. And I actually sold one to our buddy Carl very recently in Strongsville. But these are my last two that I have left and I've realized I don't need two. I'm okay with one. So. I love the way Jeremy picks apart cards on Fanatics Live. I'm going to put my, let my ego down. It's okay for you to get very technical and crazy. And Joe, I want your opinion too and just let me know I want to keep one of the two of these. I, I feel like they're very similar and I really can't really tell the difference between the two. Which one I like and which one I don't. And before you show it, Jeremy, when I have a, my scanner is a little too good. Okay. So when I took a scan of it, you just have to realize that these cards, they don't look as snowy as you're about to see on these scanners. Okay. They do look actually pretty black from normal view, but when it's scanned, man, they look like a mess with the snow part of it. So just realize that in person they don't look as snowy as you're about to see. What David's really doing right now is preempting all of my criticisms of these cards, all of my comments. So we are. Let me, let me tell you, David and everybody, we are going to look at that snow. It's good. We're gonna feel that snow on our face when we share these images. David, can I share the first one? It. Let's do it. All right, here we go. Here's the first one. This is a 58 tops. Jim Brown PSA2 looks beautiful from this angle. David, anything you'd like to share about it? What is it that you really like about it before I, I do zoom in on it, you know, I like my centering and this card is a very tough one to find. Centered. No, the. The oval, by the way, is always off centered, so don't pay attention to that. It's. You really have to look at the border. I know it's so weird that the oval around Jim Brown is like off centered in every one of these cars. I don't know why they did that, but. Sorry. What you're talking about is that the width of this black border on the left versus the black one on the right there. It's unlike like the LU Alcindor rookie or even the 71 OPG tops hockeys. This one is always like that and that can be very misleading for people. It. It doesn't really reconcile, but that's the way it is. So. Sorry. So really it's the outside border, right. Which is pretty centered for this card, I think almost as centered as you can get. You can see the snow and as you remember, you know, the snow doesn't look as bad. The registration on his face. I love for you guys to kind of pick apart and just tell me of these two cards. It's one's a three and one's a two. They're very similar and to tell you the truth, the high eye appeals on a 2 and a 3 are very similar in pricing also. So I really just want to keep the one that's the better card. So I can't really tell the difference. So that's what I wanted. I would love to hear your both of your opinions. Joe, any thoughts on the card that you see in front of you here before I get in there. I'm not an expert on this issue, but it is exceptional for the centering. What is it? Our friend Dylan, you know, bang on centering, I think is one of his, one of his ways of describing. It's bang on centering that I think he calls it. Thank you for that clarification. No, I, I like it. And yeah, I, I, I've, I was in the market for that card for a little bit and I would be very happy with this issue. Not having seen the other one just yet. I'd be very happy with this issue in my collection. But I know that it is one of those cards, like, kind of like the Jackie Leaf we were talking about, where you're gonna have to settle somewhere. And I, I think you've made a good choice on this one. All right, let's look at the, the three and then I'll, we'll just get into both. So here's the three now. Not a lot different. The centering to me seems a, it just seems different. Something about it, it might, I don't know what it is. Maybe the card is itself on a little bit of tilt within the holder or maybe the scan isn't completely straight, I'm not sure. But something looks a bit different when I go from here. This looks nice and straight to this one. Is there a bit of, there's a bit of tilt, maybe bit of clockwise tilt. Is the right border getting wider as you go down on the left border getting wider as you go up? I think it is actually, David, on this one, on the three. So from that perspective, I favor the two corners on the two. I mean, they're, they're, they're, they're honest. They're honest and they're, they're, they're fine. You know, they're, they're, they're not, they're flawed, but they're, they're good. The three, the three's corners I think might be overall a little bit better. Let's look at registration. Let's go back to the two or David asked us. I mean, it's easy. Well, it's not easy, but you can see this yellow glow coming off the top of his shoulders, the top of his head, the top of the football. That's clearly a registration problem. You also see this like thin blue stripe between the grass and the black background. If we move up back to the three now, we don't see that at all. It's a nice clean break there. There's no Yellow glow over his head or over the shoulders. So from a registration perspective, I favor the three as well. I think corners and registration. We're favoring the three centering, I think we're favoring the two. And then comes the snow. And when I zoom in on again, this is the two. When we zoom in we see, we see snow, we see a couple of fish eyes in there. You come down, you see more of it in the bottom third of the card than you do in the top two thirds. If you come back to the three now, it's just a, it seems like a lighter print. It's almost like consistent snow throughout the, the, the two here and a whole bunch of fish eyes, like almost hundreds of them. Minor ones though, throughout the box. Again, as David said, you're not going to see this with the naked eye, but maybe not hundreds, but 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and a whole six. Yeah, there's several. There may be, there probably is hundreds of them. There's. I can see a couple dozen right in here as we're zoomed in. The question is, does it matter? There's 1, 2, 3, 4. Does it even matter? There's a whole bunch over here. So from a snow print quality perspective, not registration though I prefer the two, so I don't know. And I also, just looking at the two just seems to be more saturated than the, than the three. So for me I would have to give up a bit on registration to get. I think I prefer the 2 overall myself to the 3 even though the 3 has better registration in corners. So that's my assessment. I prefer the two. David. Joe. Joe, any further comments? Well, I'm just curious because the, the two looks like the black, black ground is stronger and that's, that's attractive to me. But what I'm curious about is the grass. The green fields in the background looks a little more muted on the two than the three. The three seems to have a more, a more and I don't know if that's the contrast with the black and so maybe, maybe it just looks that way. But I, I do like if I could take the black of the two and the green of the three and combine them together, I think I'd be happy. Yeah, right. What I'm hearing is what I'm hearing and you know, my, my position when I looked at these earlier was like, ah, neither, you know, neither for me because I, you know, I put less weight on centering than David does. I weight on, I do weight centering heavily but I just weight it a Little bit lower than David does. And I put. I put a lot more weight on registration and saturation, I think when Joe's talking about the blacks, I think I would call that, like, the saturation of it. And I put. I put weight on that. But then Joe talks about the inner. The. The blues and the greens. And to me, that's very important as well. And the three. The. The. The. The three does seem to have better saturation on the color. Or maybe it's. Yeah, just the overall brightness. It is a bit nicer. I think even. Even when you consider the contrast, you just focus on the. The clouds to the left of his shoulder and football. They're. They're subtle in there, but the clouds in that sort of blue sky, and you come to the three, they are a little bit more. A little bit brighter. I'm gonna go three. I'm gonna say three. Along with the corners being a little sharper, I think. I think that enlivened background. The blues and the greens, as you say, is more important to me than the black. Yeah, I get it. For me, it would be, too, but not at the expense of the black. At me, the black is sort of the main feature of the parts of the card that are not the player himself. That's just me, though. So, yeah, I would choose the two. Joe would choose the three. David, what do you think you're gonna do here? You got it. You've got it. You said. I mean, how do you guys. Can't give me a. I like. I like hearing both of your opinions. This is what I love, you know, I love you both of your opinions on these kind of things. Can I show you something about the three that also kind of bothered me a little bit, Besides the bottom having extra snow, which on the black. But if you don't mind, go to the. If you don't mind going to the top by his head. See that little mark in the black, that little hair thing? Yeah. Is that. That's the thing that bugs me the most. Yeah. On this card, that. That actually, in the first pass, I was gonna ask Jay Lee. Like, Jay Lee. Look at that. Look at that. Because it. It bothered me as well. And maybe I'll. Maybe I'm gonna just call it a draw. Like, I don't think. Yeah, I don't think you're gonna make a mistake either way. And by the same token, I mean, I would be. I would be very happy with either one of these cards. Yeah. You would accept it in your collection, Joe. At least one of the. I'M not at the same excruciating level of. Of acceptance that Jay Lee can sometimes be. Yeah, I'm really picky about the black background on this card. Yeah. Just like same with The Bill Russell 57 tops, where the. It's more the inner black background. Even though my copy has two, maybe three prominent fish eyes, but the rest of it's very dark, you know, can't be perfect. I would be happy, I think, with either of these copies as well, but I think I'd be happier with. With the two in my collection. I just the. From even. I think it has. I think it has better centering the 2 than the 3 does. But not by much, as Joe said, either. I would be satisfied with either copy, David. But I would probably be on the lookout for an improvement. Whether that improvement came in a 2, 3, 4, or even a 5 holder. You know, if I had to pay a premium for a five that was a lot nicer, I likely would and I might even. That way you're probably going to get better corners and. And fives aren't that expensive. I don't think it's really. When you get into those sevens and eights that it really shoots up. Yeah. And I actually. I sold a 5 very recently of this card. It just. It was a little bit off centered. And these are as close to centered as you can get for this card. That's like. That's where. Where this is very different than other copies that you find. Yeah, you're right. You have to give things up. And I don't like giving up center for me because I really love to go off of the lowest grade, highest eye appeal. And because they're so similar, I'm probably leaning towards the two only because. Right. We both like. They're. They're so similar anyway. And maybe I can get a little bit more of a premium for the three just because it is a higher grade because they're so similar. Yeah, that's a good point. You can get more money for the three. I'm like you. I. The lower the grade, the prouder I am that I own the card. Honestly, I. Yeah. Okay, let's go now to the next card. Now we're going to go to. I believe we're going to go to Joe's card. You ready, Joe? This is one of your. Is this a recent pickup that we're sharing? It is and it isn't. It's. It's a somewhat recent pickup that I had shipped to fanatics and then just last week I had shipped it off to psa. Like it's funny because I rarely if ever grade and I don't grade personally, but fanatics makes it pretty easy to click a button when you send them a raw card. So I did it and it popped. I didn't ever have the card in hand, but it popped last week and I was pretty happy with the result. All right, here it is. Boom. 2023 immaculate Jerry Rice triple patch on card auto. Only five copies made. This is number four of five. Beautiful design, Joe. I love the card. Oh, it's graded by PSA as a PSA8 with a pretty recent nine digit serial code. Serial number. I love it. Joe, are those pieces of memorabilia game used? They are. And I would also point out the to 5 version. I think there might be a to 25 version of this as well. That's more of like just the basic silver. This is the gold version and the gold on that, immaculate looks great. The auto is, is got a little smear action, especially there in the last little part of Rice's auto there coming off towards the card. So that's why I didn't get the dual grade. I know you and I have have argued about, you know, having an auto grade versus not having an auto grade. I did not choose an auto grade because I knew that that would not 10. But I did want it pointed out put into a case just for protection and, and dressing it up. And you know, niners cards typically look pretty good in PSA cases because of the red on red and then the gold because the 49ers color scheme is gold and red. I think pops exceptionally well with Jerry, you know, the jersey match, if you will. It's almost a perfectly designed card from all everything you just described. That little, that little blotch on the end of his auto really doesn't bother even me. And I'm hyper critical of autos. Oh, good. Not that bad. It's a little thing off to the final end there. The, the main body, the body of the auto is basically intact. So I would proudly own this card in my collection. Is it available? No. David, What? David, what do you think of it? How do you like, how do you like this card? I love it. You know, I'm, I'm new to these MEM cards and you guys start pushing me over to your side every episode. I feel like I really like how that bottom patch looks worn a little bit more, you know, if you like look really detailed into it. Yeah, I love that. Right. How the bottom one looks like just has a little bit More wear to it. Like, you know, he just came out of the game. Yeah, it's like the screen print, where these are actual thread and patches. This is more of a screen print type of patch. Yeah. It's a beautiful card. And I didn't even notice that autograph straight. I mean, I guess I don't look at them as much as you guys do, but I wouldn't even have noticed that until you pointed it out. I would not have been completely surprised. I was prepared for it to come back a six, because a lot of times on these immaculate cards around the patch window, or there's certain peelings that can happen both on the reverse and on the corners. You just never know. And. And since it was sold raw on ebay, I didn't know what I was getting into. But it looked it. It. It's a. It's a. A nice enough card that I want in my collection that I didn't really care what the grade came back as numbered to five. And it's also. We didn't talk about this on our last episode where we were going deeply into MIM as much, but the people that put the MIM in the patch windows, there's an artistry to that. Right. Like these three particular patches, the way it kind of goes red and then a slice of white and then a larger bit of white. I. I kind of like that from a design perspective. Like a gradient almost. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I noticed that right away as well. Great card. Congrats on having it. Is it in hand yet or is it still at. It's. Yeah, I'll get shipped over here to Santa Cruz in a few days. Who knows how long it'll take. Fanatics. Absolute beauty. All right, let's go to the next image, which I believe is one of my two most recent pickups. Neither of these have landed, but let's see the next one. There we go. 2004 Upper Deck Ultimate Collection stat patch of Mr. Dave Winfield numbered out of 37 game used Yankees patch. I love the pose. I love a youthful Dave Winfield. I loved him on the Blue Jays when he was there. The patch is nice. I have a few of these stat patches from this set, and I got this for, like $40. So, you know, this is not a card that is going to end up like, on. On my balance sheet. This is not an investment. This is a. This is a hobby card. I. This is a pure enjoyment card. It can go all the way to zero. I don't care. But I. I love. I love this card. And it's gonna go great eventually. I'll show you guys when I have them all in hand together, all my 04 Ultimate Baseball stat patches, they're numbered to some statistic. In this case, 37 home runs in. In whichever year they were representing. I'm not sure. I don't remember the second card I'm going to show you. Oh, yeah, I remember. I remember. I just bought this. There we have it. 2,000 tops. Hands of gold. Barry bonds in a PSA 10 holder. Now, it's not a 90s card. It's from 2000, but close enough to the 90s. I love the die cut. I love that it's a tops card. And it's just cool. A lot of gold. We love our gold in the hobby. The population I think is somewhere around like a hundred, maybe for the PSA 10, but I don't have a lot of Bonds cards. This might actually be my only one now. I might have one or two more raw somewhere. But I'm really happy. I love the. I love the card. And then finally, I'm gonna now unshare my screen for a moment and I'm going to. This literally came right before we hit record. I said, hang on, guys, I gotta go. FedEx just arrived. So I'm gonna open up this package here and show you guys what just. This is a literal like live mail day here, guys. And then I'll let you guys. I'll get your thoughts on. On all those two cards and these. But this is coming from. I believe I bought these. I think these are from the Fanatics Collect weekly auction. Three envelopes. Oh, yeah, this is from Fanatics Collect. Three, three, three envelopes. A bubbler inside. A bubbler inside a cardboard inside the FedEx label or the FedEx packet. I don't know how many people are expecting these ones, David, but. And I say that because David and I have been talking about this kind of stuff a little bit, a little bit lately. But I, I don't need to peel the stickers off. Here we go. I'm just going to show you guys. 1966 Don Russ, we've got a Spider man and we've got an Iron Man. Joe. Nice. Yeah, back to 66. It was a great year as. There we go. As long as you've known me, Joe, longer than pretty much anybody who, who, who we do these shows with. Are you surprised? Do you. Did you see me picking up something like this? And by the way, the 1966 Don Russ marvel superhero set is made up of like Seven or eight subsets within, and each one has, I don't know, six or seven cards and. And featuring a different superhero. And the first of those six or seven is. Are usually considered to be their rookie cards. So Spider Man, Captain America, Thor, the Hulk. In this case, this Iron man is card 19, but 12 would be his earliest. He runs from 12 to 22. I have 19, and Spider man runs from 34 to 44. This is card number 38. So neither of these are considered to be their rookie cards, really. But they're from that rookie year set of those guys, and they weren't very expensive. They're low, Lowish. I don't know. I guess this one is a. Is a three, and this one is a four. But I love this Iron man card. I just think it's. I think it looks great. I bought these because I love how they look. And listen, at the end of the day, I may be a collector of the. Of this set that doesn't need the first card of each superhero. I just might want to get one of each superhero a card that I like the most. You know, I still want to get a Thor. I might want to get a Captain America as well. So those are my pickups. These are in hand. The other two are not yet, but yeah. Thoughts, guys? Joe, overall, could you show the Spider man one horizontally so we can see the dialogue tag? I. I couldn't read it. I'll read it to you. It says. What do you mean, 50 cents extra for gift wrapping? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Love it, Love it. The yellow background is nice. You got. It's just red, yellow, green, and blue. It's beautiful from a color perspective. And then Iron man just kind of pops off that black and white bit portion. The peach color top there. It says, please, I'd rather do it myself. Like, I don't know the context of these comic book captions, but I'm really happy to have them in my collection. I have a bit of a, you know, superhero collection going with the Batman and Rob and the Superman and Low and Lois Lane and now these two. So we'll see where else it ever goes. But yeah. What did you guys think of the bonds and the. And the Dave Winfield here? Go ahead. Yeah. So, I mean, I. It's interesting, right? So you. You're now picking up bonds cards. This is your first one. Do you see yourself picking up more bonds cards? I have some more. I do have some more on my watch list. I feel like I probably missed the boat a bit as far as being able to get them at good prices because, I mean, I've been watching Bonds cards for a couple years now, but I've never pounced because I was too concerned about the general consensus on him from, you know, ped perspective and would he ever surpass that. I used to own his tops Tiffany rookie card. Loved it. Don't anymore regret moving that one. It was one that I. I move when I kind of had to. I've talked about that already in previous episodes, but. But now there is more talk about him. I think more people are softening on their stance on him and. And yeah, I just wanted to grab something before it got away from me. And this was not. This was under $200. So this was a nice, easy, easy entry and, you know, didn't have to cost me too much. And I think I'm. When I get it in hand, I think I'm going to really enjoy holding it and looking at it. It's beautiful. And I love the die cut. I mean, I love die cuts. It's. That's a. That's a great card. And then if you don't mind, go to the Winfield for one second. I love this card too. I mean, look at his face on that. He looks. He looks like such a badass. So what if you were to choose a team, A team mem card for Winfield. Would you choose the Yankees? I think so. I think so. Because you, you know, Well, I might. I might want two, you know, Yankees and Blue Jays. But this was. This card was more led by the set it's from than anything else because I have a couple from it already. And so now I go on ebay or com C and I'm just searching stat patch and see what comes up. And does the player resonate? Yes. Do I like the patch? Yes. Do I. Can I accept the team? Can I? If I can, then great. Like, I wouldn't buy. I shouldn't say wouldn't, but I'd be. It'd be tough for me to buy a Griffey Reds card if he had one of these, you know, But I probably would because I'm. Do I like the set? So. Yeah, it's one of those situations. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, I mean, I like him as a Yankee too. I was just wondering because he's been on a few different teams. And then for the Marvel cards, I love them. And I know that it kind of goes with your not needing rookie cards, but. But you are a flight collector, Jeremy, and you have that first amazing Superman. You have the Batman, even though you say that you think that you're satisfied. I kind of have a feeling that you kind of need the rookies of Spider man at the very minimum, and possibly some other superheroes. Am I crazy to think that way? No, you're not crazy at all. There's two problems there. One is kind of for it, one's against it. The problem. Problem against it is that if you look at the Hulk card, he barely appears on the card. You know, he's like the size of your pinky nail. The other. The other problem with that, though, is that if I do do that, then. Then these two cards I just acquired don't fit in as well. So I kind of think that by acquiring these two less important cards to the overall hobby, that I almost free myself from having to collect the. The rookies, which will cost me more. It also opens me up to. Now I can choose from 10 cards of these guys, right? It. It opens up the opportunities. I love this Iron man card more than his. His card number 12, which is the first one in the set. So by not being a prisoner to the rookie card, which I'm not in other aspects of. Of my sports collecting, why do I have to do that here? Despite the fact that I have Batman and Superman's rookie cards what I consider to be rookie cards, this opens me up to many more options. And there's an argument that these are rookie cards too, because isn't the Lou Gehrig Number 190 or 192 in 33 Gaudi also considered to be like a rookie card? If you. If you Exclude the oversized 19. What is it, the 26 exhibit or whatever it is, you get rid of that, you go more mainstream. People consider that to be a. Same with the Babe Ruth. All four and Gowdy are as important as each other, really. You know, they really, truly are. So I think that this set could move in that direction, especially when you consider the beauty, the basic design, appeal, and colors. So I think I almost now have to not have to, like, deliberately not purchase the first card of those. I. I basically have, like, if there's 10 of each player. I think I said six before. Maybe if there's 10 of each player in the set. And really, I think there's. I think there's six heroes and 66 cards. So it's 11 cards per hero, right? That would make sense. There's six different superheroes in here. I can. I just love that it opens my selection from being. I'm. I'm cornered into one option to a. To not 11. But 10 options if I exclude the rookie or the first one from the scope of cards I'm willing to own. So I think that's the direction I'm going to go. I think I'm going to, in this case, say no to the nut to the earliest card of each superhero and, and open me up myself up to the rest of them as a selection. I think I just got there right now as to how I'm going to handle that. It's going to save me money and gonna give me more options. I love that. I love that position. So approved, disapproved. Think I'll stick to it, Joe. I mean, it brings up something. You know, Star wars has been kind of blowing up the old 77 tops, and I have like a beater, Luke Skywalker number one. And, and I'm good with it. You know, that's all I need. But I've been looking at the other cards just for some value plays because like you said, don't be a prisoner to the rookie card. Well, especially in these sets where it's all the same year, it does seem more subject, less subjective to me or less objective that, that we deem that. I understand the rationale, the first, you know, in the, in the order of appearance, but if something speaks to you aesthetically and the, the, the proportionate, you know, cost ratio is inviting. Unshackle yourself from being the prisoner to the rookie card. I love those. Quick little update for the panel and everybody listen. Watching Joe Perot just named this episode Unshackled. That's the new name. That's what we're naming. That's gonna be the little blurb on the thumbnail. Unshackled. I love it. Thank you, Joe. He's a creative genius and he doesn't even know it. Oh, he knows it. He knows it. He is a creative genius. Kind of goes with Iron man too, right? Exactly. I love it. David, you gonna jump in? So would you unshackle yourself, Jeremy, by possibly buying a Superman lot cheaper card? If you buy number 2, 3, 4, 30, and, and get rid of the one that you have to keep it consistent with the flight. If, I mean, this is where, this is where I cannot, I cannot articulate what I'm thinking or how I'm feeling or why. The why, how to answer that. But, but no, I, I think, I think what's happening here, David, is that, and I, I, I think there's a way I could explain it. I just have to figure that out. But I feel like the Superman number one in that I don't know how big that set is. I'm not even sure how many. Yeah, it's like over. It's 150 cards or something like that. Whatever it is. I feel like in that set, the Superman number one is, in my mind the most, easily the most important card in that set. Whereas with these cards, and this is what I can't explain. I don't. I understand that the greater hobby will feel that the earlier card is the number one card for each of those superheroes, but for me, I don't. I just don't care in this. In the case of 66 Donrus Marvel, I don't really care. I'm willing to. To let any of them get into my collection. And I feel that they're. They're all important. And maybe part of it is because, you know, the set encompasses like 11 cards per. Per subject, whereas Superman is 150. So they're all a bit. These are all a bit more important than any random of the 150 Superman cards comes out to beauty as well. The number one Superman card, I just think is the one that features him most prominently. It's really about. It's. It's kicking off that set and saying, here is the star of the show. Superman is the star of this IP this. This, you know, fantasy. Whereas 66 Marvel is saying, hey, there's six main characters, which I think lessens the importance of each of them in this relative to the overall set. I'm trying. Here we are. You are seeing me in real time. Justify why I. Why I'm leaning one way over the other, because I can't explain why my heart goes there, but it does. And I'm trying to understand. I think I just sort of did. And in many. In many ways. One more thing. The other thing is that in the Superman set, there's also some other first appearances. Now this is gonna. This is. This is funny I'm gonna say it, but first appearances in comic books are very important in cards. I think first appearances of. First appearances of superheroes are important as well. And other fictional characters, let's say. So Superman, to me, the first appearance is very important. The number one. I think it equates somewhat to number the number one comic issue, which I know it doesn't perfectly. For. For these, the same thing should apply. But for whatever reason, I feel like I can almost look at all 11 cards being there for the first appearance of these guys just in. In a. In a set. So, yeah, I know I'm being inconsistent. I accept that. But that's the way my brain is going, and I'm probably just now trying to justify what the way I'm gonna go. But that's how we do things, right? That's how we do things. Sometimes we don't know why. So I don't know. Man. Did that answer. Joe, what do you think? I don't think you're being entirely inconsistent, because I think there is a definite difference between a Superman set with an. Also with a number one card, like the Star wars, the Luke number one card versus these kind of series and kind of increments of sets within a larger set. And like, I. It invites my curiosity about that 66 Donra set it. Who is the. No. What is the number one card of that set? Do you happen to know? I don't recall who the first superheroes it might be Captain America. It might. Yeah, I don't recall. That would be interesting to me because I. Even though I said, you know, unshackle ourselves from these somewhat, you know, subjective constraints, I do put a premium even in. In sports cards with cards that are number one, because, as we know, like, back in the day, those were always the cards that, when the kid, you know, banded it up with a rubber band, that would be the one that would be most likely to be kind of dinged. And so there's a condition element to that as well. And. And I think, aesthetically, just a card that's number one, whether it's a rookie card or not is kind of cool. Yeah, I think I. I hear you there. I think that, you know, the number one card, without knowing the superhero, it is like, I don't necessarily need a card of all six superheroes just because they're in the set. I can pick a flight from within the six options, and within each of the six options, you have 10 options. If you're excluding the first one, because you don't. As soon as I pick up that number one or that earliest car, that lowest numbered card of each guy, now I'm gonna have to get all of them or at least four or five of them, whatever it might be. So. But that number one card is interesting if that superhero was. Was. Was significant to me. Like, Captain America is not as significant of a superhero to me as Thor or spider man or the Incredible Hulk. Well, you're Canadian. You're Canadian. No, you don't understand, Jeremy. Not. Not only because of that. I mean, we. You know, it's funny. Canada has an answer to cap to. To Captain America. That came out back in the 70s and 80s, I think I used to get the comic books. It was called Captain Canuck and that was the. That there was a superhero called. You guys probably haven't heard of him because you're in the States. But he exists. He exists as well. No, I'm a fan of Captain America. I have. But is he as significant as Spider man or. Or Thor or Iron Man? To me, he. He isn't. But he's. He's a close second. You know, he's. He's second tier. It's. It's kind of like, you know, the goats versus that next tier. I put Captain America, for me in that next tier. I did enjoy his comic books as well. So you think the movie franchises got them? Like, I don't know if Iron man would have been considered that before the movie. Movies have everything to do with this, I think. Right? Superman said Superman, Batman, the Batman TV show. This is. That's what though, David. Those are the only reason why these things really matter anymore. I mean, really. Because if you also think about it, the movies are driving comic book sales as well. I think the movies are a huge part you. And it's just like in sports where we have a documentary. It's like, oh, you better get the card before that documentary comes out. Same thing go. That's how the movies were and comic books work, as far as I know. You better get those before the. The new superhero movie comes out or, you know, there's a new X Men coming out next year. Better jump before it actually comes out. So I, I hear all. Yeah, I think it all. It all makes sense, but I think it is reliant on that. Absolutely. Don't. Don't you? Definitely. Yeah. I mean, I just think that this man. I just think that vintage pop culture cards that are non sports have. I'm hearing from a lot of different people, like all of my collectors friends, like they are going down these crazy lanes of vintage non sports. And it is very interesting. And once you. I'm starting to dive into it pretty heavily. I know. Jeremy, you are. I don't know, Joe, if you. Have you gone into that really at all. Well, you just spoke about the Luke Skywalker card, right? So you are thinking about it a little bit, right? Yeah, no, I somewhat recently got a really nice Ray Charles card, which I know isn't quite comics, but also figures of fiction. Mad Hatter. I had a really cool Mad Hatter card. So yeah, all over the place. There's. There's opportunities to connect with, you know, your imagination and, And Fiction and. Or reality. And you bid on a pirate card, didn't you? Relatively recently too, right? I did not bid enough. But they're not called, they're not called pirate cards anymore, guys. They're called midlife Greg. Pirate cards. By the way. You know, it's, it's interesting. Like you talk about the historical figures and I have a, I have a folder right in my Dropbox where I keep all my images and it's called. I'm just looking for it right here. It's called Miscellaneous and non and within it I have another folder called Miscellaneous Sports and I have another folder called Historic. It's. The folder is titled Historical Hollywood Music Miscellaneous and tcg. I have no tcg, but it's got guys. It's got guys like Charlie Chaplin. You know, I really want to get an Albert Einstein card. There's one in particular I've never owned. I want to get it. I was buying a lot of non sport vintage. I mean, Joe, do you remember when I was buying a lot of that kind of Ray Charles stuff several years ago? Look at that. Ray Charles card from Joe. I do. I mean, and you helped me figure out how to pronounce the word Sam Salakar. I don't know how to pronounce it, but it's, it's called, it's. It's samlar saker, which literally, I think in Swedish translates to collectible. That's all. That's all it translates to. So, yeah, we were doing the set we had, so we talked about Samler sakers and, and the Dutch handcuffs several years. The, the panini cantantes. We were Talking about those four years ago, probably. I went on a, I went on a bit of a binge with that stuff and I still have some of it. I sold some in my Joe Jackson maneuver, but I still have several. And I love those guard. They're. They're not leaving. I love that stuff. The Beatles, Bob Dylan, you know, Rolling Stones. And then you get into these. I, I am kind of turning a little bit more into the fictional characters 1. And, and you know the, the color on this one. This is the Mad Hatter from Figures of Fish Fiction. Beautiful. Look at the pants on him. You know the pants and kind of the crazy hat and he's got like the tea Kettle and. 1924 that said. Right? Yeah. Carreras Ltd, 1924 figures of fiction. The Mad Hatter, which I love that. That's beautiful, Joe. I mean there's people collecting, like we know Greg collects pirates. There's people Collecting presidents, you can collect inventors, you, you can collect artists, you can collect Beethoven cards, you know, you can edit Thomas Edison, Alexander Graham Bell, all the presidents. They're all out there. It's fun. It's a whole new lane. And I'm, you know, maybe it's the David Chase influence, you know, but yeah, I'm, I'm finding myself really enjoying it as, but I still love sports. Obviously. It's the, you know, sports is 98% of what I collect and, and I'm not going to stop. I have a big, a big list of wants for the national this year. We'll see what we're able to, to source. So. Man. Well, as always happens, we get beyond where we thought we're gonna. We don't, we, we do not have time for the topic we were going to talk about. So we spoke about 0 of our topic. 0 of our, of our topics. Yeah, we've, we've really focused on being unshackled from, unshackled from just collecting sports cards. Unshackled from collecting only rookie cards. Unshackled from David Chase only collecting vintage. He now wants to collect some memorabilia cards. I've even seen, you know, we talked on Sports Cards Live the last couple weeks about we calling him Stan, the guy who bought the, the infamous Jackie Robinson patch card for $9,900. Well, I can tell you that one of the most cynical people on the, on the Sports Cars Live panel has privately shared that he has been influenced by Stan and gone out and bought a vintage memorabilia card. He's not with us today, so I don't want to talk too much about him. What's that, Joe? Oh, who could that be? Who could that be? The lawyer from Chicago. We can reveal it maybe in a real time we can let him use his own words to express his, you know, evolution or emergence into this area. But yeah, that was, that was a fun private message to receive that new new horizons have been accessed. Isn't that funny? And you know what, like speaking about, you know, just new horizons and being open to new things. Like we talked on that last episode of Sports Cards Live about being open minded. I think, I think I talked a lot about that, you know, and it's, it's interesting being any, but any talking head like any of us where, you know, you share your thoughts and opinions on things. But I don't ever want to. I know I do it without thinking about it and that's on me for sure. But I, I never go out intending to attack anybody's. Approach to the hobby. You know, even, even the people that collect the grade, not the card. Like I, you know, collect it if you want. Like it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't really truly offend me. It's got nothing to do with me. It's actually good for me that people are putting money into overgraded cards. Like that's, it leaves the undergraded cards for the rest of us, you know, the, the, the twos that look better than the threes or that we would prefer over it. So. But, but it's, you know, being open minded to trying new things and not, not only to the way we, we look at thing things like grading or the way we look at the business of the hobby. The hobby's an industry or are you a collector or investor? But also trying new things and exploring new rabbit holes is so much fun. And I know we all agree. But David, I know that you've been, like you said, you've been going hard on some of this non sports stuff. Why, why do you enjoy it? Why do you love it so much when you really are a 48 Leaf in a baseball and a vintage sports guy? Why are you in like just. It's not so much. Why do you enjoy those cards? Why do you enjoy a new lane? Let's go to Joe and then we'll wrap this up. Oh yeah, just. Sorry, I was gonna start with David then Joe, but let's start with you, Joe. No go. Yeah, no, I, I mean I, I think you know, Jay Lee, I mean it's just you see an opportunity there where you compare the relative significance of someone historically and you think one, it'd be super cool to own and two, like there might be some value there. So that it's pretty, it's pretty straightforward and simple and you throw in something aesthetically pleasing like that, that Abe Lincoln that Greg was showing from Strongsville that he passed on. I feel sorry for him passing on that card because it was beautiful. The red version or something or orange. I don't know. So there's, there's really like a lot of complexity I think when you open up into a new lane and kind of keeps you fresh and you know what we are as collectors, we are hunters. We are hunters and gatherers. And when you're a hunter and gatherer and you discover a new crop field, you know, like or, or, or a new ranch, I don't know, whatever it is a new place where, where the, the animals are grazing, it's like oh my gosh this like back, you know, a couple hundred years ago. For us, it's simply cardboard of pictures of historical figures or, or fictional characters, whatever it is. But it's that newness, it's something new to explore that really we, many collectors haven't discovered. If you've been around a while because you, you live through all the eras, you know, and if you skipped an era like I kind of did in that second half of the 90s, I've had that joy for going on almost 10 years now. And also the joy of, of collecting historical figures because even athletes are historical figures. They're part of our culture. Just like all those other categories are presidential music, Hollywood inventors, explorers, poets, composers, all these things. So I love it. I love the new. The new path. David? What? How about you? All right, I'll talk. I've always thought in my mind I'm going to wait and not talk about this for a while. But the reason why I kind of went into a crazy new lane is I was just kind of talking to friends in the hobby and I was getting a little burnt out with my collection and just waiting for grails, and then you don't really pick them up for long periods of time. And I was just kind of thinking of Greg, loving the historical, vintage things. And I don't really care as much about presidents and things like that. And it just for me is not as exciting. But when I started to think about what is exciting, who doesn't love music, right? Like, music is one of those things that brings everybody together. I don't know anybody who doesn't love bands. Even if you're a weirdo that's by yourself with no friends, you still love music. Even more people love music than sports. And I just started to think, why are we. Why am I not collecting the greatest musicians? Just like what Joe said, the Beatles, the Stones, the who, Pink Floyd, Queen. And then maybe even going into, like, more current things. Snoop Dogg, Eminem, you. Right. Like, just different ways. And I just started researching and going into depth on those kind of things. Elvis Presley, Frank Sinatra, even some that I don't even love. But at the same time, crazy historical people. And these cards are dirt cheap. And define significant cards that have the most beautiful pictures on it. I am now down a path. I'm absolutely in love. I probably didn't really want to talk about it for a while until I was even farther along, but man, I am just to find like an old Bob Dylan card of like one of his first years is just a crazy thing and it's like a couple hundred dollars compared to these historical things of baseball players that I'm collecting. Oh my God, I am just totally over my head. I'm in love. And this is going to be a long path that I'm in right now. And I'm just at the start and it's super fun to find this new journey that I'm in. And part of the fun is identifying which cards you want because there's a lot of selection out there. I know from my old Samler Saker days and, you know, which I haven't been into as much, but I'm probably going to be picking up a few more as the months go by. But identifying which is the card you want. And do you want multiples of the Beatles or the Stones or Elton John or David Bowie? Like, do you want, do we want multiples of these guys, Jimi Hendrix, Michael Jackson, or do you just want one per artist? And to me, in my collection right now that I've had for years, I whittled it down, but I still have like, I still have two, two John Lennon cards and everyone else just one. I think I might have two McJaggers, but to me it's like I want to get one per guy or one per group or one per whatever. And then if it's a true goat in my, what I consider to be go one of my all time faves, then I might get another one or two and build a flight where the colors are nice and they go together. It's, it's so, it is so much fun. And like you said, the value proposition there is so much better because. Oh, that's better. But it's, you know, they're just cheaper than sports cards, which I think is awesome. The other thing, David, what you said is like what you like. Why aren't I collecting the other thing I love? Which is music you love. Here's the beautiful thing. You love music and you love cards. Well, guess what, David Chase, you collect. You can collect cards and musicians. You don't have to go collect record albums or graded cassette tapes or CDs, which you can't listen to any. You can collect a card that you can look at that was made, you know, 50 years ago, maybe more, and collect. And then you can apply a lot of the same criteria that you do to collecting sports cards, which makes it even more fun. It's so much more natural. So I'm all over it. You know, I, I was so proud when David shared his rabbit hole with me to Be, hey, check out what I have. You know, and I've had these for a long time, so it's, it's cool also to have that, that commonality. Joe as well. We've been down that path together for the past five years. We talked. We haven't talked about it for a bit, but maybe we will wrap that up again now. So anyway, guys, fun episode. Any final comments on this from either of you? Because I don't want to leave you hanging if you have some thoughts. Joe. Yeah, I mean, just this is a little bit of the reason why. I mean, I'm not completely clear on this, but you know, there's been a lot of talk about, you know, magic and Pokemon cards. And I, I think the reason, I'm very positive about that market, even though it sometimes infringes on, you know, PSA times and, and other areas of like shows. But it is exposing people to the idea, to the appreciation of, of any subject on cards. And so, you know, Pokemon might cross pollinate into music cards or other historical figure cards over time. And so the more kind of use case there is for people targeting cardboard, I just think that makes the, the hobby a more interesting place and, and sort of helps all of our collector sensibilities moving forward. Yeah. And, and you know, in my mind of organizing, of organizing the hobby, we have sports cards, we have non sports cards, and we have tcg. TCG is a completely different category, but I agree with you, it does open up people's minds to collecting things other than sports cards, I suppose. David, final thoughts? Yeah, and one thing that I was thinking about for music cards, what could possibly happen in the future? And this is just me just throwing this out there because this is just when I was starting to go through this path. Man. With Tops now cards, how they're able to just put out a card right away. How cool would it be if like fanatics somehow was able to do this with bands? And like, if you went to a concert and to get like a Tops now card of that band's concert that you just saw. Come on, Fanatics, get on the board. That would be so awesome to go to a show and get a card from that exact show that you went to. I don't know, just thinking out loud of fun music things that we could go down. Yeah, they just need to figure out all those, all those licensing rights and everything. But in a way that would, that could almost replace ticket collecting because you can't. There's no tickets really anymore unless they're, you know, okay, Guys, this was a blast. What a fun episode. Did not go the direction that I thought it was going to go into, but that's where we go. This is the Hangover, everybody, exclusive to the Sports Card Clubhouse Network. Be sure you're also following Sports cards live on YouTube. You can follow me on Instagram at J. Lee Underscore Sports Cards Live. And my personal collection account at J. Lee Underscore Cards. My book Pops and Comps is available on Amazon. And of course, go to the hobby spectrum.com and take the assessment if you have not yet done that, join the registry. Thank you everybody for joining us. You can find much more great content here on the Sports Card Clubhouse. We'll see you back here. We'll see you on Saturday on Sports Cards Live. Thanks, everybody.