Who's Card Values Will Stand The Test Of Time?

In our massive country, there are card collectors throughout the land participating in the hobby. There's Mike of Junk Wax Hero and Greg of midlife Cards. And while distance may separate them, here is where they come together to talk cards. Hey, buddy, I gotta tell you something real quick. Before you respond to that. My daughter said, you know, dad, I think you should get shirts that say, hey, buddy. Didn't. Didn't we say this? Did you say that, too? I said this in a text message last week because somebody commented, hey, buddy. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh I screenshotted that comment. I think it was Sammy Hill. I screenshotted that comment, and I said, we need to get shirts made up. Like, have your face on one side, my face on the other, and have it say, hey, buddy in between. Yu-Gi-Oh I love it. I love it. And, you know, there's a new feature on Stream Yard. You. There's a pop up pause button up here. I don't know if you knew this. If you click on it, it pauses. Yu-Gi-Oh That's wild. No. Yu-Gi-Oh You never heard of it, huh? No. How you doing, man? How's your back? I mean, word on the street is you are just. You are basically Larry Bird laying on the parquet Fleer watching while you're out. Yu-Gi-Oh You know, it's funny. Last Monday night when you and I are recording, right before we started recording, I mentioned that my back had tightened up that day, and it was in a lot of pain, but it wasn't anything serious until I went upstairs and it got. It got much worse that night. And I went to the walk in clinic. More like the crawl in clinic, I said in my Friday video. And it was excruciating. And I took a lot of drugs. I'm not a. I'm not a drug kind of guy, but they were like, you need to take steroids. You need to take Mosaic relaxers and have lidocaine patches on. And so I did this religiously over the next five days. And I would say I'm at, like, 80% now. I'm feeling a lot better, but now I'm almost like this. The other side of my back. I've almost overcompensated because I've got this little knot in my back. Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, to say you're 80%. I mean, I haven't been 80% in years. So that's relative. Relative. Oh, I see. I see. Well, there's so many things that I could talk to you about. You had a very interesting conversation with Mike Moynihan on this Week in Sports Cards last Week, which I've texted you a couple of times about. There's a couple things I might follow up and ask you about later. But we teased, we didn't tease and we ran out of time. The topic that we were going to talk about last week that I wanted to talk about I've been thinking about all week quite frankly, which is what makes some players have more, more long term collectibility. Now I know right there I've lost people because people go what do you mean some people are more collectible than others. What do you mean value of some players and these guys values one-of-one go down. I know that that's a touchy subject. That said, if we look at what has been happening in the market just in the past 12 months, some players cards have surged and other players cards have actually gone down. And so there is something to the, the long term and short term demand of different people in the history of sports and cards. Yes, absolutely. Yu-Gi-Oh I think that there's a lot that goes into it for sure. Now you said that you had done a this week and no, you had done. What was it that you clear median probably four years ago we talked about this very topic and you had predicted something or you had shared your thoughts at the time. So I think the first thing I want to get right after it share your thoughts that you said then and has that changed at all now and what, what is it? Yu-Gi-Oh it really hasn't changed. My, my thinking is that there are several things that make a player collectible over a long period of time. So let's just stick with vintage right now because I don't want to get into the speculation that happens in the modern, ultra modern. I don't want to get into all of that. But let's just talk about vintage and for the most part you're talking about guys who the most collectible. And when we say collectible actually why don't you define collectible in your, your thinking, Greg? Well, Yu-Gi-Oh I mean because every, everybody is collectible. Every card is collectible. But there are some cards that I think, I think that the player will still be highly sought after. More demand, more demand in 50 years. And I think that here's the way I think about and literally I was on a walk this morning and I was thinking about this topic and what we might say and what we might talk about. And I was thinking about it this way. When you go to the hall of fame, if you've never been to the hall of fame, there's this one like big room and it's a hall, and there's plaques. There are plaques on the wall, and it's each year's class, and it has all the people that got into the hall of Fame. And, you know, there's. There's Babe Ruth and there's Ty Cobb and there's Mickey Mantle, but then there's Clark Griffith and there's Vic Willis, and there are people that a lot of others may not be familiar with those players and their stories. And. And if you spend any time at all in that hall, you'll see people will be taking pictures next to some of the plaques, and they one-of-one be taking pictures next to other people in the plaques. And it could be for a variety of reasons, but a lot of people that go to the hall of Fame take a picture of or next to the Babe Ruth plaque, for example, and not a lot of people are in a line waiting for their turn for Clark Griffith. And so to me, that is sort of an analogy of what we're talking about here, is there are lines for some plaques and there aren't lines for others. It might be a month before a Vic Willis plaque gets taken a picture of. But I can guarantee you every single day, there are tons of people who do that for Babe Ruth. So that is how I would define the demand, the collectibility. I love it. That's a perfect definition. So without naming any names just yet, but I'm going to get into names in a moment, I'm going to say that the most important part of the collectibility, or the demand for cards for players that are vintage is going to be stories that withstand the test of time. It is. If you want to talk about Jack Morris. Jack Morris was not a great pitcher. I'm sorry, I know I'm going to get hate in the comments, but he was never a great pitcher, except when it mattered. In game seven of the 1991 World Series. That story withstands the test of time. And people collect him because they remember that he was never a Cy Young Contenders or, I don't know, I don't remember exactly, but he. He was just never among the best pitchers in the league. But that one game gives him some demand in Cards. So I said I wasn't going to get into names and I just got into a name, but whatever, then you also have accomplishments. So if you one-of-one a bunch of MVPs, a bunch of World Series, a bunch of. I don't know. Well, if you want a Triple Crown, as an example, if you led a lesser team to the World Series or to a World Series one-of-one Another way is if you played on the same team for your entire career, you're going to have more demand from that fan base. So as you if you look at Raphael Devers, for instance, there was a lot of demand for his cards until he was traded to the San Francisco Giants. And the demand, I believe, plummeted because he's no longer on that one big team, the Red Sox, that he had been on and expected to be on for his entire career. But if you're Cal Ripken, for instance, not only do you have the Orioles Orioles fan base who want to buy his cards and collect him, he also has the the Iron man streak of games played. And so that creates even greater collectibility demand for his cards from all baseball fans. Now let me hop in there real quick. Yu-Gi-Oh You mentioned Cal Ripken and you mentioned Orioles fans. And of all of the people in the hobby, my favorite person who is a, a Cal Ripken fan and a great Oriole fan would be Chris Se of Collector, Investor, Dealer, not in that order. And he is the sponsor of this episode. Go to his website, cidcards.com reach out to Chris if you have a large or small collection that you are looking to liquidate because he is his company is absolutely growing leaps and bounds right now. And you don't grow leaps and bounds if you don't treat people right and you don't grow leaps and bounds if you don't know what you're doing. But Chris is very much a good guy who will treat you right. So if you decide you want to, hey, I'm going to cut bait. I want to start over, start from scratch. I'm going to sell my collection. Maybe something came up. Maybe you have a wedding to pay for, maybe a medical incident you need to pay for something like that. Reach out to Chris again. Cidcards.com Sewell sports cards Chris is the best. This is his website. You can also access him by going to the partners page in the Sports Card Clubhouse and when you scroll down you will see information about Chris Sewell and you can click on this link that takes you to his website as well. That said. Sorry to interrupt. Go ahead. We were talking about Cal Ripken. I was actually just about to move on because I talked about career accomplishments and Cal Ripken is less about career accomplishments, although he had plenty. It was more about the story of what he did. He set the record, crushed the record of games played and, and a lot of people looked up to him for, for decades as kind of this you Know, parents wanted their kids to grow up and be that tough. You know, you go to work every day. I know, I heard it as a kid. But then you've got a guy like Mickey Mantle who had everything going for him. He was in New York City, the biggest market of all, when, when baseball was at its peak in the 1950s and 1960s. He one-of-one how many World Series? Seven. I don't, I, I lost count. Five. So Red suck fans, you know, Go ahead. Neither of us remember Mickey Mantle. I mean, he, he passed away when you and I were like 15, 16 years old maybe. Yu-Gi-Oh but we don't. I knew who he was because the legends of Mickey Mantle, he one-of-one all those World series, all those MVPs. He, he was a 500 home run player. He played in New York City. He was an Absolute legend. Plus, everybody believes who watched him that he could have been so much better if he hadn't had that injury. I think it was during his rookie year and the alcoholism. And so these legends persist, they, they carry on across generations. And the fact that he was in New York City and kids idolized him at a time when there was nothing except baseball and boxing, basically. I mean, obviously there were other sports too, but baseball was the biggest. And so while you and I don't remember Mickey Mantle, we never watched him. We collect him. And then you also have the fact that he has several iconic baseball cards to his name. The 52 mantle. You and I grew up reading Beckett Baseball Card Monthly. I know when I was a kid, every week, every month I would get that. The first thing I would open up to was 1952 tops to see how much his, his first tops card had increased or decreased in value. It's the first thing I did every single month. He also has the Topps, very iconic card. And there are numerous others, of course, but the ones that everybody's familiar with is 52. Also the 51 Bowman and the Topps. He has Topps all star. He has so many that are iconic and that makes, increases his demand among collectors. You make a lot of great points. And you, I mean, I kind of jotted them down as you were saying them. You said stories, you said accomplishments, you said same team, you said iconic baseball cards. I think that, I think that you're on to something. Now. I recently, and I mentioned this last episode, you know, I was having a conversation with tony Southern collector and he was saying that one of the key ingredients he thinks is like a memorable moment, like a memorable, like home run or a memorable experience that happened. And he was talking in the conversation, and I don't want to steal all his thunder, I'm not going to speak for him, but he was talking specifically about Willie Mays and he was like, Yu-Gi-Oh Willie Mays is a great player. You know, he, he did all the stuff. They went to World Series and he one-of-one awards and all these sorts of things. But Willie Mays is like, one memorable moment is the catch, and the catch is defensive play. A defensive play which is. He was a great defender, but it was a defensive play. And, and it was really amazing because it was in the Polo Grounds, which is the only place that that ball would have stayed in the park. Have to understand that about the Polo Grounds to know what exactly he did. And, and so I thought that was an interesting point too about, like, a memorable moment. And that's why a lot of the guys like, you know, you think of like, Derek Jeter and Derek Jeter, if you check these boxes, he's got stories, he's got accomplishments, he's got iconic cards. He played on the same team. He had iconic moments. And I also, I think something that could be a replacement or at least an addition to are people who overcame obstacles. I think some of the most beloved players are players who had some sort of obstacle in front of them that they were able to overcome. Like, you think about Hank Aaron, very beloved player, all time great player, all time favorite. Well, he had to overcome all the hatred he was dealing with when he was about to break the record. When you think about Jackie Robinson, what he overcame, Mickey Mantle had, like, you mentioned the injury that he overcame and the, the alcoholism and, and Babe Ruth had, you know, he had all the extracurricular activities that he was overcoming. So I think that there's something to be said for that. I, I think that, you know, Sandy Koufax having the Yom Kippur game is like, and him standing up for his beliefs and, and saying, I'm gonna put the World Series on hold. Like some of those sorts of things that people dealt with. And I'm sure there was some racism that he dealt with as well. And I think that those things are also a piece of it. So one of the things I, you said, I don't want to mention names yet, but I do want to talk about, and I just mentioned a couple who are some people that we could kind of brainstorm and, and I don't want to completely hijack this at this point, but that, that seem to have a lot of those check marks, but somehow are still Overlooked. And who are some people who don't have those check marks that seem to overcome them, too, like. Or who are some players that we think like. I'll give you this. Al Kaline. Okay, let's just. Let's just start here. Al Kaline, he one-of-one a batting title. I think he was 19 when he one-of-one a batting title. He played for the Tigers for his in. I mean, he was a tiger. He's Mr. Tiger, right? He's got. I think his rookie card is an iconic card. He doesn't have a moment. He doesn't. But he has All Star games and he has awards and he has things like that. He doesn't have a story, really, and he doesn't have a moment. So is not having a moment or a story supersede all of those other things? Yu-Gi-Oh I think it does. And if we go back to Willie Mays for a moment, you brought him up. I think you and I both would agree that he has a legitimate claim as the greatest baseball player of all time. Joe Posnanski, in his baseball 100, made him number one on his list of greatest baseball players of all time. I think he's. I would put him number one. He's clearly top three in most people's opinions. And yet I don't think that he has the stories that carry him. He was 660 home runs, I think. I don't know how many stolen bases, but somewhere close to that, too. I think he had over 500 stolen bases. An amazing fielder, amazing hitter. He had everything going for him. But. And I'm going to say this, and I'm going to upset a lot of people if you. He was. He was a little boring in terms of the hobby. And that's not my opinion. I don't. I wasn't there. But there's not a whole lot to go on to tell the story of Willie Mays other than his statistics. When you have a guy like Jack Morris who was nowhere near the athlete or player, Willie Mays, he has those stories that keep him alive and keep him, you know, people talking about him. But will people remember Jack Morris in 25 years, the. Absolutely. Our generation who grew up, you and I were 12 years old watching that game. Our parents let us stay up late. Yu-Gi-Oh I remember. I'll never forget tbs. I think it was TBS playing that. Whoever, whatever channel it was, they were always zooming in on his face. He had a mouthful of tobacco. What about Kent Herbeck? Didn't he, like, lift the guy off the base and then try to Call him out. Remember that? Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, he has a story. I mean, what about Joe Carter? I mean, he hit the home run and is jumping around the bases like he has a story. And he was a really good player. Yu-Gi-Oh Joe Carter is a great example who not. He's a little under borderline candidate and that the home run almost. You know, you could. You could make the case that that could have gotten him in if he had been closer to a borderline candidate. So Frank Robinson is all time great and so important as a manager. One manager of the year in both leagues. He was an executive. He. Why is it that he doesn't have a st. I mean, to me he has a story. His story is breaking down barriers. You know, he has accomplishments. He did jump around teams. I do think his rookie is a pretty iconic card. Is. Is that. Is, is him jumping around teams. What's holding him back? Because he should be. If you. I did this. I did an episode on this years ago now, probably three years ago, is I put a player's stats up there. He said he did this and then he did this, and then he did this. Who do you think it is? And then I went to the next guy and I went. And I was. I remember putting Frank Robinson's accomplishments on the screen and I was just like, oh, my. I didn't realize. Yu-Gi-Oh Why is he not. Why is he not more sought after? Well, tell me what his moments were. Tell me what the stories of his career were. When you're. When your accomplishments are as an executive or as a manager, they have to be bigger. They have to be Theo Obsidian breaking the Red Sox curse and then breaking the Cubs curse type of things. They can't be Frank Robinson. I can't even tell you. He was the first black executive, first black manager, something like that. I'm not even sure. Let me ask you this. Well, he one-of-one two MVPs. Yep. He two times World Series champion. He one-of-one a triple Crown. He was amazing. He was a World Series of how many home runs do you think he hit?570. Yu-Gi-Oh home runs. I mean, he almost hit 600 home runs. The guy is incredible. And. But for some reason, his cards aren't worth much. Yu-Gi-Oh that's wild to me. And you're right, there's. There's not a story. But is there. Is he not famous? Is he not more collected because he doesn't have a story? Or does he not have a story because he's not more collected and more popular? Is it possible. Is it possible that it's the opposite. Like, I mean, like, it's okay to be boring. Like, absolutely. I mean, you don't have to be. I mean, I wasn't going to say it, but Stan Musial, I mean, Bob Costas gave the eulogy at Stan Musial's funeral. And he said, he talked about what a good guy he was, what a good human being he was. He talked about at the All Star Game one year and you could watch the speech he talked about at the All Star Game in the dugout. The white players were hanging out over here, the black players were hanging out over here, and the black players were playing cards in the dugout. And I, I think it was like, you know, before the game or something, it was that weekend and he walked over and sat down with the black players and he said, deal me in. Like. And it was like a defining moment that a lot of the guys in the dugout remember because he crossed the barrier to help integrate these great players together and say, you're one of us, I'm one of you. You know, and, and he played for the same team and his stats are insane. Yu-Gi-Oh Is it, is, is that not a good enough story? Is his story that he didn't one-of-one No. I'm not poking fun at you. I'm being serious. Like, no. Is that the same thing? Is we don't have a moment for Stan Musial. We, we as a society don't value nice people. We value Pete Roses over nice people. And Pete Rose was by all accounts not a nice guy. He was a hard worker. He was a hustler. He was. But he spent his entire life as kind of this rogue outlaw kind of personality. And people loved Pete Rose and that's why his cards are valuable and withstand the test of time. He also had the big red machine that he was part of, but he was also, he was all. He's on several different teams. He played on the friggin Expos one year, two years, I don't remember. Let me just briefly read a couple of numbers of Stan Musial. Not that you don't know him, but just for people listening, he had, he batted.331. Is that good? That's pretty good. He had three, 3630 hits. He had almost 2000 RBIs. He was a 24 time All Star, three time World Series champ, three time MVP, seven batting champs. That's insane. He does, he does have an iconic. Well, I just bought his 4849 Leaf card, which we know was released in early 49. I paid like 900 ish dollars for it. And an SGC1 is that cheap? I think it's cheap, I think for what he is. And not to mention he was in the military for a couple of years and it threw his career off. I mean, who knows what he lost then? You know, what did he lose by being in, in the military, potentially? I don't. I mean, I don't know. But. And that's the other thing about Ted Williams. When you look at Ted Williams, it's like, oh my gosh, the prime that he missed but five seasons. Yu-Gi-Oh but that's more of a story for Ted Williams than it is for Stan Musial. But, but that's why Ted Williams is. Seems to be more in demand and his cards seem to be more valuable. I think that's part of. I think Ted Williams does have a story, which is why Ted Williams has this long term collectibility thing also. A notorious jerk. He. He was a little. Well, and you could say that about Frank Robinson too. He was a. He was a little persnickety from time to time. But not Stan Musial. Right, Right. I, I find this whole thing to be so interesting. I think a lot of us wonder about it. And you know, I, I know that we're gonna have so many people that are gonna just say, well, you know, it's this and that. And I want to hear what other people think. I mean, if you're listening, this is not a one way street. This is a two way street. Tell us what you think. But there are some people and you look at them and you go. It seems to me like Stan Musial kind of checks every box. But you're right about the story. He doesn't really have a story. At least he doesn't have a story that we know right now. Do we not know the story because he's not more popular? That's what I was saying a second ago. Stan Musial has stories, but we don't know of them. Do we not know of them because he's not more popular? Or is he not more popular because his stories aren't like Joe DiMaggio's dating Marilyn Monroe. Right. Our history. Yu-Gi-Oh great, great point there about DiMaggio. But are his stories widely known? I don't think they are. Yu-Gi-Oh but, and that, but, but do we know that his stories aren't widely known because they're not interesting? Or are his stories not widely known because he doesn't have interesting stories? I mean, you know, I don't know, I probably just said the same thing twice. But you know what I'm saying. The point I'm trying to make is he's got the nickname, he's got the look, he's got the team, he's got the championships, he's got the stats. Stan. Freaking mutual. But I will say this about stand mutual because I know somebody has already typed this out in the comments and now I'm going to spoil it. You're going to have to delete it because I'm going to follow up on it. He does have the discontinuity of his cards. Yes, he does have. He doesn't have a card in 50. Well, he doesn't have a. He doesn't have a card in 50 and 51 from the major manufacturers. He does have a 52 Bowman. He doesn't have a tops card until his 58 all star. There are definitely those gaps likely hurt him just like they likely hurt the cards of an Elgin Baylor or some of the guy Oscar Robertson. It hurts their cards that you can't put together the one after another and there's these huge gaps in there. That's part of it, I think. Think. But if Musial had had played in 1939 like Ted Williams had and he had 39, 40, 41, do you think he'd be more popular in the hobby because you have three more years of kind of iconic sets pre war or. I guess that was my point. Do you think that. No, I think that's. I think you're right. I think that's part of it. I think he doesn't have the play ball cards and then the Goldin era of cards from 51 to 60 we'll call it. He's missing in like seven of the 10. Yep. But he's in the red hearts and he's in. He's. The red hearts are. Are not well known outside of the the vintage community. Well, thanks for stealing my line. I was getting. But he's in the red man. He's in the red hearts. He's in some of these offshoot things and you're right, they're not mainstream. So to a lot of people they probably don't exist. It's an interesting discussion and trying to understand it and I think at the end of the day, and I know somebody's left this comment too, it's never been about how good you are. It's been more about how cool you are and how popular you are. The popularity is the demand. The demand is not the how Good. You are. The, the, the demand is how beloved you are. And Babe Ruth was beloved. Mickey Mantle was beloved. I mean, how many Red Sox fans. I mean, Adam is a Red Sox fan, and Adam's has a full Mantle run and he talks about how it was his dad's favorite player and he, he lived where he lives, where he lives, and he's a Red Sox fan. Everybody loved Mantle. Everybody loved Ruth, but not everybody loved some guys like, for. I, I still, I still find it fascinating that you told me. And let me ask you again, just for the record, Red Sox fans disdain Jeter. We, we hate him, but respect him. Okay, I, I can accept that. I'm trying to think of somebody that, that Yankees fans. Pedro. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh He did assault a beloved coach of ours. You forgot elderly, elderly coach of ours. And you know, some people still celebrate that by buying memorabilia from those events. But I do, I respect the freakish ability of Pedro. Yu-Gi-Oh But I, I don't like Pedro. But I, he was filthy, but he did weird stuff. He, he had that little dude that he would carry around in the clubhouse and I'm like, what is happening? His hair was always wonky and he's just such a character, which if he's your character, he's like, it's like Harbaugh when Harbaugh was the 49ers coach. Dude, I love that guy. But the second he left and went to Michigan, I'm just like, that guy's nauseating. That's how I feel about Joe Missoula, the Celtics head coach. He is an Absolute psycho. But he's our psycho. And I would be so annoyed with him if you were another team's head coach. Like, he's just so, so weird. But he's our weirdo. You talked about, you talked about Cool Factor, Greg. And just imagine if Arthur Fonzarelli had been a superstar baseball player. Oh, I mean, anybody who could pull off that jacket and just snap. And everything happens, hey, I mean, Prince Hakeem from Coming to America and the Fawns are the only people that could really make people move quickly at a, at a snap. Dale Murphy. Dale Murphy is a guy. He, he, I think his rookie card is fairly iconic and recognizable. He played for the same team. He one-of-one back to back MVP awards. He was very, very good. He was great. He was great. But, but his cards, and I know it's kind of starting to get into the junk wax era and there's a high population of them, but the fact that he's not in the hall of Fame and the fact that he's not looked at in the same line of like, you know, some, like a Dave Winfield or some of these other guys in that era. I mean, Eddie Murray had some insane stats, so it's hard to group him into that. But I don't know. He's a guy that I feel a little bit is overlooked. But then a guy like Tim Rains is in the hall of Fame, and Tim Rains is really good, but what's Tim Rains store? No, but then his cards aren't valuable, so the story hurts the card. I don't know. I don't know what I'm saying. Would you rather have on your team, would you rather have Dale Murphy or Harold Banes? DALE MURPHY, Absolutely. 100% Dale Murphy. Yu-Gi-Oh And I know that everybody thinks I hate Harold Bates. I don't have any problem with Harold Baines, nothing. I just have a problem with him being in the hall of Fame when other people aren't. That I think should be. That's it. That's the only issue I have. Yu-Gi-Oh Okay. That's a great discussion, by the way. Was it good? Do you think that people liked it? There are gonna be so many angry comments. They're gonna be people telling me they've unsubscribed from my channel because of my opinions on this stuff. I can't wait. Bring it. Okay, now I, I want to follow up with a little, a little side conversation. It's not going to be a long one, so don't worry, I'm not opening a whole new subject. But we just spent a lot of time talking about demand, which is sort of another, another word, another term for value. And because the high demand players and the high demand cards have the high value. And, and I was thinking about, as we were talking about this, because when we're like, you know, why isn't Stan Musial in higher demand? Well, what we're saying is, why aren't his cards more valuable? It's just the code. You know, people get less upset when you say in demand and collectible than if you say valuable. Why is it. Why is it that that word of value is a bad word? Why is it that if we say Stan Muesual seems like he should be more collectible, like there probably one-of-one be as many upset comments than if we said, why aren't Stan Musial's cards more valuable and going up in value as much as Mantle? What is, what's that all about? I think because it takes a fun, nostalgic hobby and Turns it more into the. The businessy industry. Serious thing that a lot of people don't want it to be. And ultimately it is, of course, you know, Mike Moynihan, baseball collector, and I talked about this last week, that the valuation of cards and the constant talk about value of cards for some people can ruin the hobby. And they don't want to think about the value. They know that they've paid money for it and they know it has value. They don't want it to lose value, but they also don't want to think about it as an asset. It is a collectible. It is something that's in their hobby room or in a box somewhere and that they enjoy, but they don't want to think about, you know, as part of their 401k. They don't want to think about the fact that, you know, whatever is happening in the world may be impacting the value of their hobby, the value of their cards. This Mike, that was a really good answer. I mean, that was it. I mean, if I was grading that answer, because now we grade things on YouTube, I guess I would give. That definitely would be an A. I didn't have a visual, though. You didn't have a visual, but you didn't meander, so you definitely did. I like that answer a lot. Let me ask a follow up then. I think really well said. Obviously, why is it then that the people who do. And this is kind of touching on the conversation you and Mike had as well, why is it then that the people who do look at it as an asset and do care about the value, why is it considered why? Why is it like, you know, if you're on Star wars, their lasers are red instead of green. Like, what is the reason that they're seen as the opposition? Instead of why can't we both enjoy it? But some people care about it? I mean, I know you kind of just answered it, but it seems like there's like anger toward the people who do care. Because I don't care if you care about value or not. Doesn't matter to me. But people who don't care about value, if you do care about value, it's, it's, it's like. And I know, I mean, I guess, I guess maybe you answered that as it's that you're ruining their nostalgic, fun hobby by, by bringing up those words. Is that, Is that really what it's all. I mean, that's it? Well, I think you have to think about it as two different worlds. You have one world where it's vintage content creators, low level content creators like us who like talking about vintage. We're really into the hobby and the cards and the stories and the players and the game. And if we go off topic and talk about value too much, that's going to upset our followers and our viewers. But if you are a Trike or a Jeff Wilson or those guys, that's what their viewers want. That, that is popular. People want to watch them talk about the values of cards and what's going up and what's going down and what's, where should I be investing my, my card money in? So it's, it's two different worlds. I think that to straddle that world, I don't even know, I don't know how you would do that. You and I, I just did a video I don't know, three, four weeks ago where I talked about the value of my cards has become, I don't want to say more important but more prevalent in my life since I started using Card Ladder and just seeing how much things are worth but doesn't make me want to sell them anymore. Even though I have one of my Shohei Rookies has 10x'd in two years since I bought it, it doesn't make me want to sell it. It just makes me go, holy cow, that's amazing. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh it is. That is amazing. And, and is that sustainable and what's going to happen with all that's, that's a whole nother thing. All right. Well, I mean again, I think those are, those are great responses. And I, I just, I, I, I feel like there are some little tiny wedges in there that sometimes get kicked in a little bit and kind of spread us apart. That I don't want that to happen. So I want to be aware of what these triggering comments or moments or topics are. Not that I will avoid them because I'm just going to say what I'm thinking and feeling at the moment. But it is curious to know what is the root of it. And in Chris Hoag once I heard him say something along the lines, by the way, card ladder promo code scc. Chris said something along the lines of it's because the people who sell and care about value are your opposition because they're trying to make the cards go up in value, which is harming the person who's trying to acquire it. And so what you're doing is you wanting the card to be low in value so that you can buy it and them doing things to raise the value which could be a whole nother topic of. I. I wrote down as one of the things to talk to you about of there. Well, I'm not gonna open the can of worms. All right, I'm Downtown, I'm done. So your thoughts on that little. Well, Chris Hoage is brilliant. And he always, every time I hear him speak, he tends to say something that makes me go, man, that's so smart. Yu-Gi-Oh And so I wish I had more opportunity. I wish that there was he. He had the opportunity to do more podcasting. I mean, I know he does some on his channel, he does some on Jay Lee Sports Card Live, but I just feel like I could use more tidbits, more nuggets from Chris Hoage. I'm gonna give you a little secret. I've never told anybody this before, but he gets all those ideas from me. I. I text him those little nuggets and then he goes on these shows and he talks about them and makes it all sound good, but I'm actually the one that comes up with them, so I. I one-of-one tell anybody. Awesome. All right, buddy. Another week down. We are rapidly approaching our one year anniversary of this show. I. I was thinking earlier today about checking the date to be able to figure out what the exact date was so we could have some sort of celebration, maybe eat a piece of cake or some p. Something, but. Can't believe it's been almost a year. But here we are. So I think it was towards the end of September. Okay. So about a month. We have a month to plan what type of ice cream cake we're gonna get. Yu-Gi-Oh I think. Yu-Gi-Oh man, I would love an ice cream cake. Thanks for offering, Greg. Yu-Gi-Oh I think we should get Yumi, Adam and Jay Lee on a, I don't know, live stream or something. I mean, the one year anniversary of the channel. We should probably do a live stream. The four of us. Yu-Gi-Oh Who would we have, moderate, Me or Jay Lee? Oh, I can't pick a side. Don't make me do it. Greg, down below in the comments share, who should be moderator and who should be panelist. All right, here we go. Sam.