Fake Patches, Market Madness & Knowing When to Sell

Michael Jordan. Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now Jeremy Lee in the building and every guess that you ever needed Sports cards after hours keep the hobby heated Updates homie Talk like you never seen it Sports cards live and I could ever beat it Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now. Welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host, Jeremy Lee. But the question then becomes like. Like Brad's vintage said, like I've been saying for decades now, Upper Deck, tops, Panini. You guys need to document these things. And they just have not. There have been some moves with Upper Deck with the authority, which is a new slabbing, slash grading company come in all the. Are all the. But it's only for the rookie patch auto in that set. It's a very limited run. Hopefully they expand that. Mike, what are your thoughts on whose responsibility is this? Can we expect the card companies to protect us? Should we? Yu-Gi-Oh I'll be honest with you, two. I think two relatively easy things. Number one, a database like you just said, every numbered now with unnumbered stuff. I don't know how you do that, but every numbered card, very simple. Like there should be an original picture database. Zebra simple to find. There you go. The other thing is just how the patches are actually put or jerseys are put into the cards. Like a little bit of extra glue and adhesive. I've talked to two people about this who worked with manufacturing. You do that a little bit more and all of a sudden removing that patch, you're guaranteed to ruin the patch window when you take it out. I do think those two things are pretty simple, you know, But I'm also curious, like does tops like you've talked upper depth great Fanatics is on tops for a couple years. I'm very curious how much they know. That's the scale of how much this is going on. I'm hoping now they're kind of coming around to. Because a lot of people are talking about it. But if that's the case, I do like just step up how you're putting these things into the card and. And then make a database and then quite frankly work with ebay's authentication team, which again is only 200 bucks. And over a lot of the stuff we're talking about goes less. These guys are smart enough, but if you're gonna do that seems pretty simple. Like when they're authenticating the patch, hey, here's the tops database for every car. It takes two seconds. Authenticate it, same patch done. I think those three things happening in unison would be pretty effective. Yu-Gi-Oh I think so. I think you're right. You know what, it's. I, I've. I'm kind of, I've kind of given up hope that there will be a complete record of this. I mean, obviously the past is gone. They don't have what to share, what to publicize or to give access to. One of the biggest reasons I heard back in the day as to why they wouldn't share the images is because it would maybe hurt sales. Like product sales, unopened sales. Because now. Yu-Gi-Oh Mike, I, I appreciate this, the smirk there, because I feel the same way. But it's because, you know, if the nicest patch gets pulled for that player's card, it might hurt the sales of the product down the road. Mike, what do you think? Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, here's the thing. We also talk about that with every product. Like anytime there's a massive Chase Pro, there's Superfractor trackers out there, right? And hey, like when the Jackson Holiday Zebra Fractal got pulled a couple years ago or the sk, when his debut patch got pulled, people have this like thinking like all of a sudden the product tanks. I've yet to see a product ever tank because the, the Chase card was pulled ever. Like the Otani, when that thing gets pulled, the dual logo, man, I can use for you Topps Chrome is still going to sell through the roof. Like the Otani judge was just hit. Nobody the next day in a break room or an LCS thought, I'm not gonna go buy a box of Topps Chrome. So I, I just, Yu-Gi-Oh to your point, like, I just don't think I, I don't think that's reasonable at all. No, I don't think so either. You know, like, and right now I'm personally affected by it because I paid fifteen hundred dollars for this card, I sold it for more than that, bought it back, and now I'm out the money. I'm out my 1500 bucks and I'm sitting on this and it's like I wish, I wish that, that it was automatically identified. And now I got, now I gotta go, I gotta go talk to the guy and I don't know, maybe he's listening right now. I haven't even talked to him about it yet. I gotta go reach out to this guy and be like, hey, you want to reimburse me now? I reimbursed the guy, so I'll definitely too. It's only fair that you reimburse me and you go after the guy that you bought it from. And if you don't know, like, who gets stuck with this? Who, who am I? I'm probably gonna get stuck with this. I'm probably gonna get stuck with it, you know? Sure, Yu-Gi-Oh Miserable. Like, I've had this happen. I bought a Jordan, one of my first nationals. I got a PSA9 Jordan. It was in an old holder, brought it to psa, bought it at the table first time we set up. And back then it might have even been a PSA 8. I forget. It was like 800 or a thousand dollars. This is 10, 12 years ago. Brought over to PSA, they were like, hey, it's fake. I Goldin find the guy. You're just out the money. Like, I, So to some degree, I'm like, that's just a cost of doing business, which sucks, but that's the reality of it. But Yu-Gi-Oh that's why at some point from the supply chain, we've got to put in parameters where, hey, this can't keep happening. So this doesn't have, you know, down the road effects. Absolutely. Joe, any, any further thoughts like where responsibility should be, who the burden should fall on, or even, like, what can you expect? Like, at what point? If you buy a card on ebay, you know, in the past, I, hopefully, Mike, with what you guys are doing, they will, you know, try to crack down on this a little bit. But there's a lot of people out there sitting with these. Well, a lot of it's unknown, so I guess ignorance is bliss that way. I'm sure I still have fake patches in my collection. I, I, I'm, I got to be 100% certain that I do. I wasn't, I didn't think this one was fake. I thought, I thought it was, I thought it was good. The guy said, that guy actually said he had it for a long time, so he probably doesn't know where he got it from. And now he's not going to be able to, to go after that person. Is he gonna buy it back for me? Oh, gosh, we'll see. I hope he does. But, but Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, it's, it's really, it's, it's, you know, we've got, we've got the issue of fake autographs. We have the issue of fake memorabilia. We got fake patches, we got counterfeits, we've got trimmed cards. We've got all sorts of nefarious activities going on. You know, it's a, it's a, it's a land, it's a minefield out There right now, I think, and that's not good. We could lose people from the hobby because of this psa. The grading companies, they can't tell. They, they don't know. They will not authenticate patches. They've, they've basically said, Yu-Gi-Oh those guys are too good at it. We don't know. We cannot do anything about it. We cannot identify fake patches which I, I give them a complete pass on that. How could we expect them to? If they said they were doing it, then I would not give them a pass. But they say we are not. We don't authenticate or grade the patches. Mike, do you think that's a fair position for grading companies to take? I mean, I do right now, but again, the solution is if there was a database when the cards came out, then I would have the same expectation now that we have every single card being photographed in a report somewhere or database somewhere as part of ebay authentication, when it gets sold, check it, is that the right patch takes two seconds? Done. Any grading company, cgc, psa, bgs, the second it comes in two seconds, look in the database, does the past patch match? And then you could authenticate the card, which would be again, easy. But as of right now, no, it's not their job. The only thing I struggle with is you still put these cards in holders though. And how many people actually know, I'd be shocked. I think the number is shockingly low. How many people buy a card in a Beckett or PSA or whatever holder it is and they see it graded and they, they have any idea that that company doesn't authenticate the patch? Most do not know that. You're right. I've seen people say, oh, it's graded. The patch must be good. It's in a PSA or a Beckett holder. I've heard that as well. And I'm thinking to myself, go read their website. That's an. People just don't read grading companies websites. They don't, they don't know what they're buying into, whether it comes to the, the, the what the. Really when it comes to what the guarantees are, even what the grading standards are, they just don't know what they're even doing there in many cases. So it's one of those tough situations in the hobby and hopefully we can find a way to, to really just work with it. While I didn't continue with the fakepatchreport.com website, there are other sites that are tracking these things. One thing I did do when I had hobby inside, I'll show you guys this just to. I mean, this goes back almost 20 years. But I created this index here, and you could. This is only for the cup and it's only for hockey. So I apologize to everyone else out there, but if I were to go into 0506, Crosby, I had this. I managed to save all these images of his cup RPA out of 99 that came out in 2006. And you can see some are missing. This is fixed. This database here is not going to change. Where it says missing, by what. I mean, it's not going to change. I've lost the ability to change this database. I can't put anything in it. I can't take anything out of it. It is just there like this now. And some of these are actually fakes. There are a couple cases where they're fake. So people. And a lot of people know about this. This particular database, guys, which is. Which is great. A lot of people do. Like, we've got. We've got the Ovechkin in here as well. A bunch of the Ovechkin, and there are several fake Ovechkin, and they're. They're in here. I just got to be able to spot one, just to be able to show it to you. But it'll say sort of fake across the top, I believe. But one-of-one this is the kind of stuff that I was working on 15 years ago. And there's a fake one. This is. This is actually. This happened. This has two. There's the original. Here's the first time they faked it, and here's the second time they faked it. Like just crazy. And everything matches up. The serial number, the autos. Just a sad situation, but it is what it is. And like Brad here says, based on the venue. Oh, sorry, not that comment. Brad had another comment over here where he. I think it was Brad. No, it's. It's. Sorry. Jeff Hart here says if PSA is able to take photos of million of millions of cards graded every month, then manufacturers should be able to take pictures of numbered cards. Well, it's not even numbered cards. It's just patch cards. You can leave all the other numbered car. If they don't have patches or autos, you don't have anything to. To worry about. So, Joe, any thoughts before we go back to Mike? Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, just, you know, you asked about responsibility, right? And I. I mean, in the absence of people doing much in the sort of external world, I think it's got to go back, unfortunately, to the collector, you know, Caveat emptor. A very early, early on in my collecting journey, you know, the. A theorem that I realized was if it's too good to be true, it's probably not legit. And that, that's why, you know, when you see a patch, like an amazing patch, I mean, you know, Adam says this on the premiere a lot. He's like, I actually feel better about, you know, a dual color that you. You feel is not taking any liberties. You know, not a unicorn patch, but a, A patch that looks solid, looks legit because you're. You're kind of balancing your risk factor there, and that's unfortunate. I, I think an adjacent issue to this. It's not. It's not really the issue, but I think, you know, the dick sporting goods thing kind of introduced, like, well, then none of it matters. But then I think I, I. I'm not sure about this, but what I'm, what I'm feeling in the hobby is that there's been a little bit of a return to prioritization of game used or match used. So clearly it matters to collectors, I think, to have something that an athlete wore. It's pretty cool way to connect with your. Your, Your hob, your hobby target or whatever it is, you know, your player that you're. Is your goat or, or, you know, childhood hero, but that leaves a really sour taste if you get burned. And, and so, Yu-Gi-Oh I think, I think people should be talking about. I think, you know, Mike, Mike. Mike and Jesse do so many great things. I mean, there's such a wide breadth that you guys cast in terms of your. Your content. But I'm. I'm happy that you're putting your voices to this, and especially with the new influx of. Of collectors who, you know, may not have been around in the. The 2000 odds to kind of learn this the hard way. Yu-Gi-Oh those, Those that think that every card slapped is. Is completely legit. Mike. Yu-Gi-Oh And again, like, I appreciate the kind words, Joe. Like, we're not talking about. Because it's an original thought. Like, these guys have done a ton of research, the accounts we credited for it. But I also realized, like, most people were not on Blow up forums. I've got like, five or 10. I was a maniac on blowout forms. That was like the, that was the greatest thing in the world for years. And a ton of us were there. Yu-Gi-Oh Post pandemic guys probably don't know what that is. You know, like, even Jeremy's. I had never heard of those, those sites ever. Jeremy, like, that's awesome as a database. Fantastic. People don't know and if you're brand new to the hobby, you know, oh, if a card is graded it has to be real period. Like most people. I, I would argue most people, like I said in the hobby don't know that. So again, I just think even if it's repetitive at times, like you got to tell people because there's new people still coming in. So totally agree with with. Obviously this isn't hard to agree with guys but just a couple of comments to to go through here. Hello BW Brett S says the Steve Iserman Exquisite 03 auto patches are Jeremy specialty. I do have a another database with some exquisite hockey cards. So Sammy asks who is running this fake patch Instagram account. Sammy it's again, it's unfortunately it's just hockey the one I'm talking about but it's, it's run by Mitch Grotman Grop Grotman's cards on Instagram. He's doing a great job of sharing those. So Yu-Gi-Oh that, that's, that's who it is over there. There's. And oh, Tiffany cards does a great one too. Tiffany cards on Instagram. Yu-Gi-Oh sorry. Twitter is doing. Has been doing it for a long time and there's some others like you know, there, there are a few others out there as well. Skeppy says good on Mike for taking the platform. He has to create more awareness about this topic. Absolutely. Mickey Mintle says patch authentication should be the standard during the grading process. Completely disagree Mickey Mental and the reason I disagree isn't because I don't think that that would be a great thing to be. To be the standard. But they have no way to. They have, they, they have nothing to authenticate it against. You can only authenticate something if you have something to prove that you. That your authentication has any legs to stand on until the great until Top Upper Deck, Panini and maybe Leaf even start working with the grading companies by giving them their image databases. I mean think about how awesome that would be actually if that were to happen. But there's nothing that they can do to authenticate it. So you're asking for the impossible. Mickey Mental but we've had, we've. We're having some. I know, I know I've got a lot. I have. There's a lot I can still explain to you, Mr. Mickey Mental because I listen, this isn't an ideal world, but it's never. It cannot happen for cards that have been produced up until today. It's literally impossible. So I Don't think it should be the standard. And again, you're asking them to do something that they didn't sign up to do. I wish they could. Certainly wish they could as well. And then. But bw, great point. Says I think the companies that are being counterfeited should show some responsibility. So do I. That had Belfort card that I reacquired kind of want. I kind of want Upper Deck to pay me back because you know what the back of that card, the back of their card says that they guarantee the authenticity of the patch. Well, Upper Deck, what does that mean for me now? Because I got, I have a claim. I have a claim. You know, how are you gonna. Are you going to make me whole? Kind of want my $1500 back and if the guy I bought it from isn't going to give it to me, kind of want you to give it to me because I bought the card based on your guarantee on the reverse. Right. Like, it's a, it's a, it's a tough situation. But again, they're probably not going to do that because the, the contingent liability that would, that, that actually represents is in the millions and millions of dollars right now. Absolutely. So, Mike, what else is going on with you and like what you guys are talking about on, on sports cars nonsense? What other topics are, you know, kind of capturing your airwaves lately? Is there anything. And again, I'm trying to give you a minute here to think of something too because I didn't, I didn't ask you to come with anything. But is there anything that is really grinding your gears or, or the opposite and that has you really excited about the future, the hobby? Were you at, were you at Fanatics Fest? How was that for you? What's your takeaway there? What else is on the mind? Yu-Gi-Oh it wasn't Fanatics Fest. We had our team go up there and did some stuff. I will say there's a couple other things that I think are just. I've been doing this about 20 years, the last 10 years, 12 years full time. It's a weird time. Like you guys were talking about this earlier, like moving pieces and stuff you didn't want to sell. Stuff you want to sell. I'll be honest. Like, I've never, I haven't thought in years about selling Tom Brady cards. I talk about this every week now. It gets to the point where it's getting repetitive. Pricing starts to get so absurd with some of this stuff. And the national is here. It's just, I guess I keep Using the word weird because it's all I can think. July used to be the slowest month in the hobby always because everybody was saving up to do all this stuff at the National. The last three months have been outrageous. Like, if you are strictly a collector buying things to put away, I don't know how you have any faith in anything you've bought the last three months because the prices are freaking nuts. Now if you're trading into it, that's different because the stuff you traded is way up. So stuff you're getting back is expensive as well. Fine. But like, I've had Brady cards come across the desk or come in my inbox and it's like, hey, this is an awesome card. And I'm like, it is. It was 80 cheaper two years ago and 50 cheaper six months ago. What am I supposed to do with that in a month? It's supposed to be slow because we're waiting to do things at the National. So I'm optimistic. Like, the biggest difference too, people make the coveted reference. I think in general is kind of stupid. Covet it was for sales to 7x cards. Now the volume of sales is. Is ridiculous. So I think there's a lot of people coming in the hobby. I think people have smartened up some. I hate to assume intelligence ever, especially with us card guys, but I do think some card guys are like, hey, I'm not gonna buy the newest shiny crap because the value is going to tank. Like, let me just go back and buy a Griffey or buy a Brady or whatever, you know, whoever. Ed Belfor, like bonafide superstars. And I think new people come in and do that as well. But I also think at some point, like, we've gotta. Things have to slow down. Like, the market has always done that and maybe it's gradually climbed, but it always comes back down at some point. So I just been preaching caution right now. The interview. Love a card. I just think you got to be careful right now buying it. It's absolutely bonkers, actually, when you think about. And I'm looking at prices of cards that I. A couple. Some cards that I was comping out in like March, April, and now you do it again and we're talking like three times the value in a couple of months on some of these cards. As an example, the 1997 Michael Jordan metal base card that the PMG is based on in a PSA9. That card a couple months ago, I believe was like 350, $400. Now it's. It's over 2 grand can consistently. It's 2 to 2500. 2000, 2500 dollars for a base card in a PSA 9 holder. Like, what the, what, what the, you know, is. It's absolutely mindful. So I hear you, Mike. You got to be asking yourself, if you're sitting on these cards, the question becomes, how much do you believe in the market right now? How much do you believe the market? How much do you believe in the market? And look, I'm not out there selling all my cards that have tripled in value in the last three months or, you know, whatever they've done the last few years, I don't want to sell them. Am I going to regret it six months, 12 months from now, maybe. And then I could buy them back and then go. They go three years from now, they go up again and I could sell them then or have gotten back into them cheaper. How do yu-gi-oh, Joe, how do you deal with that? How do you deal with that for yourself? And we'll ask you the same question, Mike. But, Joe, how do you deal with that when it's like, man, do I sell it? Because the thing is, is that we never know what the future holds. We do believe in cycles. We think cycles repeat history can repeat itself. We seen it over and over again. I feel like I learned my lesson after the pandemic, when cards came down. Should have sold when they were high, could have bought them back and have them again now. Didn't do that. How does that make you feel, Joe? And then we'll ask you to. Mike. Yu-Gi-Oh it's an ongoing reckoning. I mean, and, and I'll be honest, it's like there's some anxiety in not selling, right? Because there are, you know, there's challenges to selling, both the practical side, but also you would get attached to certain cards. But, you know, I'm, I'm taking a few profits here and there just to kind of, you know, feel like I'm not completely missing out. But my curiosity, my big curiosity is what will the narrative be after the National? Like, what will we see? Is everybody in the same boat, where it's just kind of like, we saw these high prices, but nobody was quite willing to patch auto Now, I know that's another an overstatement. There's going to be transactions, there's going to be movement, but is there going to be as much movement as there was three months ago? You know, the, the frothy movement? Are people going to be a little more circumspect? I don't know. So that's my curiosity. Good one. How about you, Mike? What are your thoughts? Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, a couple things. I. I think you should definitely. I mean, I don't know. For me, I take wins occasionally too. My thing lately has been if I have multiples of things, duplicate copies, especially Brady, I've thinned out probably five Brady's over the last month. Three to four weeks, a couple copies. I don't think it gets to a point where I can't find them again. Now the only caveat to that is, hey, if it's a Bowman Chrome like PSA 9s are like 15, 16,000 right now gone. I sold everyone I had a little bit lower than that. I also feel like though, with that card, a do I think it's going to probably go up in the next 90 to 120 days. Sure. But I also feel like I could buy that card back in two years. Now there's other stuff. Early Brady Topps Chrome refractors that never pop up. I don't. I'm not selling those no matter what because I can never replace them. And just real quick too, you had an interesting comment. Jeff Willis said in the chat I was saying last fall, we're in a bit of a bubble. He's not entirely wrong. I did think we were in a major wax bubble last fall and we've seen that thing kind of blow up where pricing is still crazy high but the demand is just not there overall. But there's obviously demand because pricing is there. But where I get worried is when there's a bubble with new stuff. And I also don't think it's a bubble like it was back then. Even last fall, it's like, Yu-Gi-Oh where things going up. Yes, but not nuclear like now. And so even then, if you, if you sold some stuff then and took a one-of-one The other thing I think people get hung up on and I've talked about this, what's your biggest loss on a card? Sure, I've sold a card before for a thousand dollars, then it's 10, $10,000 after that. But like most guys don't sell a card and then do nothing. Like people think. We live in this vacuum where like Joe sells a card for 100 bucks and he doesn't do anything with a hundred dollars. Yu-Gi-Oh no, he probably went out and bought all the freaking card or he did something with the money to continue to snowball. So Yu-Gi-Oh if you're one of these guys who just sat on it and the snowball grew because it's sitting in your Vault. Great. But like, even cards that I sold early, I'm almost all my money these days. That's not true. A lot of my hobby money like stays in the hobby. Maybe I sold Brady a little bit early, but who cares? I went out and loaded up on Tom Brady or, or Larry Bird or Griffey or somewhere else. So it's like I just. Sometimes we get so caught in that thing and I'm like, what do you think people do when they take a one-of-one Like, they just like ride off into the sunset. Now, granted, I also though Jeremy and I think you're. You're similar to me. Like, a huge part of your net worth is in cardboard still. Correct. That hasn't changed. Not changed. So I'll be honest. The only other scenario I've talked about recently is, man, if something happened over the next one or two years where things from today 3 to 5x covet style, I'll keep a few cards, but I'm out. I'd still be in the hobby full time. I would continue doing my day to day, but I would almost empty the entire safe because at that point then it's just gone money. Like, I'm done. I'll live off the interest in the bank. Oh, I'll buy some stuff I want. But I love the hobby like this. There's crap behind me that is worth dollars. Those three cards, there are Fleer showcase. Sweet sigs. That whole set, the whole complete set which got me in the hobby in the first place is worth 700 bucks. I one-of-one sell that no matter what, period. But these other things get to the point where it's like that. Yu-Gi-Oh And I'll see people like the donkey who I know, Terry Brown, your chat. He is the basement dweller of epic proportions. People think of that as like, oh, this is like a grift or this guy's coming. No, I live in the real world. If my family is financially secure for the next few generations because I sold cardboard at the right time, gone. And I'll still buy stuff. I'll still rip packs like a delinquent because I love it. We're not there yet, but we do start to get to that number where like, man, if, if it was, hey, like, your wife is set, your kid is it. Yu-Gi-Oh You sell pictures of people on cardboard to financially secure your family's future. Yes, absolutely. Then you stay in the hobby, do whatever you want. Maybe it drops in a few years, but Yu-Gi-Oh you start to get to that point and we're not there yet. But I do think, to Joe's point, long winded answer to Joe's point, I think it's okay to take a few little wins here and there and diversify. Like, I don't think it's the worst idea right now. Yu-Gi-Oh it's, it's. Yu-Gi-Oh man. It's so hard because the emotional attachment, the money gets louder and louder the higher it gets. Like, I don't think there's a card I own that I would not sell if someone made me the. A crazy offer. Any. And like, I think I don't have a. I don't think I have a single card that could not be bought. But you're not buying it for comp. You're not buying it for 2x comp. You're probably not even buying it for 3 or 4x comp. There are cards that, to get them out of my hands, you're probably gonna have to pay me 10 times what, what the market would say they're worth. Otherwise, just go away. I'm not gonna sell the card. But if the, if there was an offer there that was, you know, something that is life changing money or, you know, something, I, I'm like, Yu-Gi-Oh it's happened before where I've received offers like that. It's like, all right, take it. It's yours for that, for that kind of money. Yu-Gi-Oh I, I did, I did read this comment from Jeff Wills, and you know, he does say that if, if you would have listened. He. His comment reads, he says, Gio was saying last fall, we're in a bubble. So he's not wrong with the caution, but he's been wrong. First of all, anybody talking on YouTube, Mike, you don't have to say anything. Anybody talking on YouTube has been wrong. Everybody, everybody on YouTube has been wrong. He says you would have missed a big gain had you listened to him. I just want to say that. Don't listen to him, guys. Don't listen to me. Don't listen to Joe. Don't listen to any of us. We are not responsible for your decisions. No talking. And not just. I'm saying we. Even people that have Instagram accounts, I see that, I see the story. Post all the time. Time to sell or, you know, the market's gonna crash or this. Don't listen to anybody. Or if you're gonna listen to somebody, make sure you've listened to enough of them. So, so that you know that you have the same mindset that they do. So if it goes south, you only have yourself to blame because they were maybe just you know, having the same thought as you, but you don't. This is like Mike said, this is pictures of people on cardboard. That's all it is. So don't. Don't blame other people for your decisions. Even people who are loud. People listen. I know Jeff Wilson. People love to blame Jeff Wilson. I think people that blame Jeff Wilson didn't ever take him up on his advice. More or less, those people like to go after him. But if you did, if you've listened to me or him or Mike or Joe or anybody in the hobby and you've had a financial loss, if it's because of me, I'll say, I wish you didn't listen to me. I might feel bad for you, but I really don't care. No offense, audience, but I really don't care. I didn't force you to do anything. I didn't. You did that on your own. You're. You're a big boy or a big girl, Mike. Yu-Gi-Oh and Jer, let me just expound on that, too, because here's the thing. I do feel bad. Like, we said, go. And that's why we kind of stopped doing that thing. We got a ton of popularity early on by, hey, buy these five. Sell these five. I will say, though, my only thing I ever say to anybody, and it rarely comes up, but, hey, I did this. When you said it, my thing would be. But did you do the whole thing? Like, was it in a context or was it in a vacuum? Like last fall, like I said, I started backing off and selling all these quarterbacks, and I lost my. I left money on the table on Drake May, Bo Nicks, Caleb Williams. I crushed on Jaden Daniels and Jaden. Maybe they'll all be back this year. Fantastic. But again, my point is, like, to your point, anybody talking about what you do, like, you've done very, very well. J. I've. We talk enough where I've followed your career. Fantastic. Like, you've done awesome for a reason. So my point is always, if you listen to the play by play that some of us make, you would be net positive. Doesn't mean there's not losses along the way, of course. But it's like, some guys will just hear the one thing of like, oh, Tom Brady's up. I think about selling. So I sold them all. Yu-Gi-Oh I said, sell your duplicates and keep the stuff you can't replace. But. But at the same time, to your point, dude, I'm wrong about stuff all the time. I. That does with any other freaking business. Like, with me I've been right as much as I've been wrong, probably. And when I feel passionate about something, I go in heavy. And I just try to talk about it as much as possible because I don't ever want. The one thing I don't want people to say is, oh, he never said this move he was making behind the scenes. No, I tell you pretty much every time. I mean, every time I've gotten murdered make on, on losing money. Kyle Lewis and freaking Kevin Durant are my two biggest losses ever. And Willie Mays rookies I bought during COVID We try to document the good and the bad so you can kind of judge for yourself, hey, you think I'm an idiot? Great. Don't freaking listen to me and don't, don't do what I say to do. Do the opposite, but can only do so much. You can only do so much. And you know, you said, know I said, like, I don't feel bad, I'll feel bad, but I don't give the advice. I'm not telling people what to buy. I, I show you what I do. I talk about what I'm doing, but I, I, I listen. I'm sure I've said, I'm sure a few things have slipped here and there, but I don't go out and tell people what to buy, what to make. People come into the chat all the time, Mike, and say, what do you guys think about this quarterback or that basketball player, this hockey, whatever. It's like you don't come here and ask what to buy or what I think of a product. There's other places that'll do that. We're here talking about other sorts of hobby topics. We're not talking about how to go make money. There's plenty of places you can do that. Some behind paywalls, others right out in front of them. There's plenty of that out there. Not, not the lane I'm in or, or the rest of the sports Cards Live crew, including Joe and everybody else. So, Mike, we've, and Joe, actually, we've taken you both to, to your time. Mike, you're tired. I want to thank you for coming on, buddy. I do appreciate it. Look forward to seeing you next week. Good luck with everything setting up there and wish you much success working with the national as the media partner. So congrats on that and all the best of the show. I'll see you soon. Awesome. Thanks for the time, Jay. Have a good night. See yu-gi-oh. Absolutely. You bet. Joseph, you're, you're gonna head out too Now I believe. I believe I am. But as this is my last moment on Sports Card Live, I wanted to say, you know, to all the listeners out there, please say hel. You know, I don't get east of the Rocky Mountains much, so me going to Chicago hoping that if you're a Sports Card Live fan, you see me walking through the halls, please tap my shoulder, say hello. I'd love to commune in person with any and all of our wonderful community. So thanks. Jay Lee, Zebra excited. I'll, I'll see in a few days. I'll probably I'll see you tomorrow night on the, on the Fanatics auction. But Yu-Gi-Oh thanks. Thanks for the platform. Thanks for all you do. Great convo with Geo and looking forward to seeing everybody. All right, buddy, you take care. Have a good rest of your night. Joe, we'll talk. I'll see you tomorrow. Talk to you tomorrow. And we'll see you in. We'll see you in Chicago in a few days. Awesome possum. Take care, buddy. Take care, buddy. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the Sports Cards Live community. Don't forget to like subscribe and most of all, keep collecting more great content to come. Sports cards is a lifestyle.