Going Over Several Hobby Headlines (ie. PSA Fraud Report, WWE Card Bounties, Athletes Collecting Pokemon); Sport Card Expo Full Debrief; Another Round Of Quiz Show!

You're listening to Cards to the Moon, a podcast about trading cards from both a collector and investor perspective. We hope you'll stick around for the ride as we take a deep dive into the state of the hobby. Share some hot takes, hopefully some useful advice and fun stories along the way. Hey, guys, welcome back to Cards to the Moon. This is episode 370 and my name is Clark from Five Card Guys.com and you can also find me at Five Card Guys on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook and TikTok. Co hosting with me today is Will and Roy, and we're going to finally do a quick debrief episode of our time at the Sport Card Expo, setting up as vendors, but we'll also catch up with other hobby headlines and issues and updates since we were last on the pod together. A lot, a lot of things to catch up on. But first off the top, it's been a few weeks now, but as I just mentioned, we were all set up at the Sport Card Expo here in Toronto, which is the biggest card show in Canada. And it was my first time as a vendor. And I did talk about it briefly with Paul Hickey on a previous joint episode. I believe it was a week or two weeks now. But before I expand my own initial thoughts, I want to hear from you guys, any highlights. Let's start there. The that stuck out for you setting up at the Expo this past spring. Highlights, I guess it would be. I got a black label from BGS. I submitted, I think 10 cards for GCR and then only one of them got a bump. So there was, I think there's 10 BGS 10s I sent and one 9.5. So they all struck out except the one, thankfully, because then that would have just been like $1100 wasted. That's how much all, like, for all 10? Yeah, yeah. GCR is over. Just over 100 bucks per card. Wow. So thankfully, one hit. It's the Ditto. The Korean Ditto. Yes. So it's actually my second black label. So I have two of those cards now. It's one of my favorite cards. So I don't know if it's gonna. Both of them are gonna stay in the PC or if I'm gonna sell one. I did get an offer, but kindly rejected it. So we'll see how it goes. So if. Well, now that you did get that one black clay bolt that made it all worth it, like 100%. Yeah. I mean, like, so I'm in the card for like 60 bucks. I bought the card raw for. I bought a hundred of them for $20 each. Okay. I sent, I think I sent not 10 or 11 of them to BGS. One got a black Label initially, and then I all got BGS tens and I think I got two 9.5s. And then I recently. Yeah, so I spent 20 bucks initially per card, $40 for the grading per card, so I'm in it for 60. And then the GCR was another 110 bucks, so. And I think the value is around 5 to 6k. So definitely worth it. Wow. Yeah. That's insane. Congrats. Good for you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Other. Otherwise I would have. I would have been pretty sad spending eleven hundred dollars to get absolutely no games. It's, it's. That would be a tough pill to swallow. But I, I don't know if I could ever do that. But that's, that's you, Roy. 1100 scared. Money don't make money. You're right. I gotta take some risks. Yeah. How about you, Will? Yeah. Speaking of taking a risk, you know, we set up, we each had a booth and the upfront cost of that is, is pretty high. Right. Like the, the setting up at the expo is not cheap. And I remember we're talking. I can't remember if we were talking on the pod or if it was just offline. And I said, I think this show is gonna be kind of a deciding factor for what my hobby journey looks like moving forward. Yeah. You know, I love so many aspects of this hobby and I've. I pour all my waking hours where I'm not working or spending time with family or, you know, like, most of my free time is spent looking at cards and enjoying cards. But every once in a while you get into a rut. You kind of like, I don't know, it's just not as sexy all the time. And so doing this card show really was another step, a new step in the journey. And I gotta say, it was so wonderful. It was such a great experience. You know, not just financially, like, like, we, like, Roy had a good week. I think I had a pretty good week. Like, I was really happy with how that turned out financially, but just building, meeting so many people. You know, in the end, our booth area wasn't the best, but it also wasn't the worst. You know, we shared stories with other booth, like, other, other vendors who were telling us, you know, they'd been vendors for like 15 years and then they got shafted to like the dark, deep recesses of like the worst corner imaginable. Yeah. And so where we were set up. It wasn't too bad. And a lot of the wrestling collectors, they were able to find me. Yeah. Made deeper relationships with the vendors, with the wrestling vendors who I used to just shop from, and now we're more like co workers, Peers. Yeah. And so I would send people over to their booth, they would send people over to mine, and, you know, people would regularly come over and be like, oh, yeah, I was talking to so and so, and he said, I should check out your booth. And so, yeah, it was really great to experience that kind of camaraderie, friendship, community. You know, we were even talking about, like, oh, since wrestling is a little bit more niche at the Expo, we should just create one mega booth with all the wrestling collectors, make our own CSC section. But it's just wwe. I think we're even talking about, like, going to. Going to Raw, because RAW is coming back to. Well, wrestling's coming back to Canada at the end of the year, so. So it's just like, lots of that. So it was a lot of fun. And, yeah, going back to the financial side, I. Yeah, it totally justified the $1,000 investment in the booth or whatever. We paid and. Yeah, had a lot of fun, so. Nice. Yeah, no, I. I mean, being Will's boothmate, I saw a lot of it in person. You know, all the. All the chatter and conversations and other WWE cards, and I. I got kind of, you know, a little bit jealous, you know, like, I'm one of those, you know, the. The third wheel a lot of the time where you're, like, just, like, laughing louder than usual just to feel, like. Feel like you want to be part of the crew, you know? No way. No way. There's no way that was the case because. Because you were set up next to me, and so many of the listeners. Listeners were, like, coming to find, like, listeners of the pod were coming to find you. Yeah, I felt like the third wheel so many times because, one, I don't really like talking about the fact that I'm on the pod. Right. So, you know, these. These people will come over, start chatting you up, and it's very obvious they're big fans of the pod and they're talking to you, and you're talking to them, and I'm, like, sitting right next to you. Like, am I supposed to be like, hey, I'm Will. Am I supposed to talk? Like, you guys are talking about cool stuff? Am I allowed to jump in? And so there was. There was a lot of that on my side, too. I was just like, Man, Clark is, Clark's getting his flowers. He's getting a lot of people coming. Yeah, you know, that was. And that's one of my highlights. So I'm glad you brought that up. Just meeting all the pod listeners for sure, 100%. And for me, it was worthwhile setting up just for that reason. Like, I didn't have the inventory that you guys had, so. And if it wasn't for my one Pokemon first edition sale, I would have lost money those four days. But then thank goodness my, I got that one card sold. And I was, I had, I made a little bit. But no, I did it for the pod. And now I understand more too. Like, if I'm setting up in November, I'm like, I need more cards, like more high value cards because a lot of them stop for that, you know, and, and the first day, I didn't even bring my like the Van Gogh, Pikachu or the stamp box because I'm like, you know, I don't want to really sell it. But then when I brought it, the second, third, fourth date, like so many people stopped and I was like tempted to sell. You know, like, yeah, I think I messaged you, Roy. I'm like, you think I should do this for 7K? And then you're like, how if it goes to 10? How if it goes to 10? I'm like, you're right, I should be greedy. And I, and I still have it. Okay, but, but no, but then people do stop and it makes you kind of like, you know, it's kind of more fun when you can talk about those cards and just the potential sale of it. But, but going back to the pod, it's funny though. Like Will self deprecating, but you know, when he does say hi or I introduced him right away I'm like, oh, this is Will. He's also on the pod. Right away people are like, oh yeah, I could. I recognize his voice like immediately, you know? Yeah. Oh, we love Will. It's like, oh yeah, I know that voice. No, I think it was a given. It's okay. More, more people Joy. More people enjoy you than they do me. So I think there's only one person that came to my blue saying, hey. And that was actually Raph from. From the pod that we. That you guys did last week. Yeah, I gotta say, that was such a good episode. I, I just, I enjoyed that. I enjoyed it so much. Yeah. And he was, he's such a cool guy. Is he an actual professor? Yeah, like, I guess that's what they call It. Professor? No. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He does teach at a college. Yeah. So he's like an actual professor and an actual Pokemon professor. I was like, man, that's cool. That's cool. Yeah. And then, you know, being a professor, he has four months off because university colleges are done in April, May. So now he has four months just to. He just came back from Amsterdam, he messaged me, and I think he's trying to get to a tournament in Italy next, so we'll see if. Must be nice. He must be like. He must be a really good judge, right? Like, no, I think he is, because in the interview he was just mentioning, like, the immigrant mentality. He wants to be number one at his, you know, at being the judge and so. But, yeah, no, it was. It was great. I. I feel like. I feel like our location, like, I didn't mind it at all. Like, you know, it's funny, Will would always go to the. To the main hall, and then he would say, like, oh, we gotta. We gotta be there next year or next. Next time. There's so many missed opportunities because people are selling their cards right. By the time they get to us, it's like, I mean, it wasn't slim pickings, but you definitely want to have first dibs. Yeah, I felt the same way because Expo this year was about, like, twice as big as any of the other ones. And the CSC section was two halls away from the main entrance. So they did have an entrance for the CSC section, but nobody really knew about it. So once you come into the main entrance, not only you have to pass the main area, past the area that you guys were in, then you'd have to come to our area. So I feel like a lot of people, by the time they got there, they already spent their money or they already sold the cards. So it was still busy. But again, I think it was a little bit too big where it made the traffic a lot less. But, you know, for the hobby, for the consumer, that's a good thing. But for us, it wasn't as good as it could have been, so. That's true. Yeah. Like, people that came to our area came on their second or third day because they're like, oh, I didn't even know that this was around. Yeah, exactly. They spent the first day in the main hall the whole time. Right. So. So, yeah, that's definitely true. But, yeah, no, it was a great time. Well, that was the highlights. How about challenges or any surprises for you guys at this Expo? Especially you guys, because you set up at previous shows before. Maybe not at the Expo, always, but other shows in general. Any surprises or challenges that. Or complaints even, other than the fact that, like, it's gotten too big to the point where it gets kind of diluted for. For us. Right. But at the same time, like, I can't complain. They gave us the opportunity to, to be there to vend. I still got to chat with a bunch of people, see some friends that I don't get to see often. So I can't really complain. It's a good show. Yeah. In terms of challenges. Yeah, it was smooth. Like the WI Fi or the, The Internet was the part for, for me. So they charge, I think 200 a day for WI Fi if you want to use their WI Fi. And if you're. If you're not on Rogers, which I'm not, I'm on Telus, you do not get any reception. Once. Once it gets a little bit filled like once, like the beginning of the show, like the first half an hour where things are. People are coming in. My network worked, but once it got full like you, it would take five minutes at least to pull up one comp. So that was a. That was probably the hardest part. I'd have to like, ask my, my vendor friend. Hey, can I use your phone for a sec? Because he's on Rogers, but yeah, I don't know. I. I'd have to. I think I have to switch to Rogers before November. What a great advertisement for our first sponsor to the podcast, Rogers Communications. I'll send this episode over to Rogers. Let's. Let's formalize the agreement. How about you, Will? Any. Anything? Well, I mean, like Roy's saying, the show is just so much bigger this year. There's a lot of growth. I'm always a little weary of big card shows and how big the corporate presence is at the shows. And I understand, you know, corporate money kind of makes the world go round. It makes the card show happen and so you can't bite the hand that feeds you. But also at the same time, like, it just, it just clogs up a lot of the main area. Yeah. And. And then when some of the other vendors are like, you know, people who have been grandfathered in and are selling like the most random. I don't want to call it vintage. I want to call it garbage. Like just, just the stuff of hoarders dreams. It's like I wish, I wish there was a little bit of a refreshing, like if they refresh that main area and maybe, yeah, take out some of the corporate stuff, move that to the sides and. Yeah. Let the hobby be the hobby. Let the card show be the card show. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like a pipe dream because they're the ones that paid big bucks. Of course. I totally get it. Like the prime real estate. But. But it's. Yeah, no, it's fair. I think it's fair. Yeah. For me, I don't know. I guess selfishly, the $1,000 for the booth, for our space, it's definitely more than I expected. So, yeah, like, I think if you don't have the right inventory, it's going to be hard to make out that, you know, like, or. Or if you don't have cases to sell. And, you know, I thought that was more of a challenge and. And, you know, I'm like, oh, at least I'll get rid of my Ohtani's. No one's looking for cheap Ohtanis. So I was like, I learned the hard way. And I was lucky, honestly. The. My tops 50, 50, that was a complete bust. Other than this one, like, elderly couple that was helping their son or their grandson complete the set. So they didn't even care about the price. They're like, we just want. They had, like, a checklist of numbers that they still needed. And then they're like, okay, I need this. I need this. I need. I'm like, oh, thank goodness they came. And then it wiped out half my. Other than that, I'd be taking it all back home. Yeah. So. Because are they gonna find it? Yeah, exactly. They were complaining about that. It's like, we can't find these anywhere. Like, just a whole bunch of them until they came by our booth. But yeah, I was saying, like, I love seeing that when the collectors, you know, for the Pokemon, it's usually the father or the guardian with their. Their kid. They have like a little notepad, and they hand write what they need. Yeah. I think it's just so cute to complete the set. And, like, I love. I love seeing that set. Collector. The true collector. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. But again, the highlights definitely outweighed any of the challenges or surprises. Same with me. I couldn't get a good connection. But, you know, you survived those three, four days. I think I already asked you guys about your sales, but any big cars that did you sell over the last three, four days or the three, four days of the expo? I think I sold the most on the first day, to be honest. On the Thursday. Oh, okay. Well, in terms of, like, the bigger cards. Yeah. But I. On the Last day, pretty much at closing, I almost sold like, a $13,000 card. He came around, he's like, I want to see that card and say, I don't want to make an offer until I have cash. So then he went to a cash and he had it in his hand. He was like, contemplating, and he's like, I think he just backed out last minute, last second. So, I mean, at the end of the day, I don't mind because the last sale was a couple days ago. It's 15,000 now. So Pokemon dealers, man, just don't sell. Never sell. Yeah, don't even set up at the next show. Just hold. How about you, Will? What was your big sale of the week? You know what? Like, I gotta look at the numbers again. I think there was like 15 to $20,000 in movement. Like total movement. Yeah, actually probably closer to like $20,000 in. In just buying, selling, also trading. We were. We're situated right next to a. A U.S. consigner. I sent down a couple thousand dollars worth of stuff down with them that's going on auction. So there was a lot of movement. I was really happy to pick up a bunch of really fun cards. Cool cards. Cards that I love. Also picked up a bunch of bulk cards that I'm gonna have set up for the show. You know, a lot of people, they love their bulk. They love set collecting. They love just finding their wrestler and they'll just buy, you know, whatever, parallel. Whatever card of the wrestler that they love. And I found that I have a lot more joy in working with those people who are, you know, just picking through the dollar boxes and they're just really happy to find the card that they like. Yeah. But, yeah, overall, just a lot of money shifting always. And, yeah, maybe a little bit more shifting out of my pockets, if I'm gonna be honest. That's how it usually is. I always. I always plan on making money. Bring. Bring home some money, make the wife happy. And I always end up spending more than I sell. I brought cash to buy, but I know I'm like, I'm the worst when it comes to that. Like, I'm very specific about what cards I like. So I'm better just walking around to buy cards rather than people come to me. So that's one minor complaint. But I gotta say, Will kept on saying, like, I gotta stop buying. And then some customer comes up and he's like, yeah, I'll take a look. Makes another deal right away. So next show, you see Will just come up. You never know. He'll probably be very receptive to buying something. I'm always down. I'm always down for a deal. Yeah. Nice. Last question before we go to the next segment. Are we going to do this again in November? Is this a done deal? I mean, I'll be there, but I'll probably be in the CSC section as always. Yeah, that was expected. Well, I'm 100% in, I think. Yeah. Okay, we're all in. You gotta try to get Hyung and John to get a booth as well. Yeah, squad together. You know, two of the bigger like or like they're just like individual guys. One's a wrestling guy, one's a basketball and multi sport guy. They, the two of them shared a booth with one other guy, one other buddy of theirs. So our, you know, our one booth size. Imagine three guys in there. Okay. And that brings down the cost significantly. And how many tables did you guys have in total? We had two tables, large space. It's 10 by 10. 10ft by 10ft. Oh, you guys got 10 foot tables? No, you get an eight and a six and you just make a L shaped. Oh, I see. That was good space. There's a lot of space. It was nice. Pleased. Yeah. So definitely could fit one more for sure. And that'll bring. Our eight foot tables are such a game changer compared to six. I know it's only two feet, but. Oh yeah, yeah, I agree. Huge difference. All right, let's move on to hobby headlines. All right. Since some time has passed, definitely a lot of things have happened in the hobby, so I thought we could use this episode to knock a few of them off one by one. I already talked about the PSA announcement of $200 million invested into their grading infrastructure. And I added some light criticism in that episode. So I don't, I don't want to dive too deep into that today, but I want to give you guys the opportunity to share your thoughts on the $200 million investment. Is that a big deal, do you think? And of course, buried this was my criticism buried in that announcement was the fact that there's going to be even longer turnaround times, higher price points, especially for the super express level. And you know, this is kind of one of those things you could. If you see a glass half full, this is like a short term pain for long term gain situation or for people that see a glass half empty, this might be the new normal when it comes to grading with psa. So how do you guys see this big announcement? Do you have any strong thoughts either way. I mean, they're just using the money to buy more real estate. So they're just, you know, making their portfolio or their company worth more in the end. Right. In terms of what they're going to do with that, like hire more staff. Like they should be doing that anyway because the backlogs are what, like up to nine months now or something like that for bulk eight. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, it's something that they have to do. Otherwise like you're gonna be like you mentioned in the pod, like you're gonna be waiting a year for your cards, which is kind of. We're going back to Covid, right? Covid days. Yes. It's ridiculous. Yeah, yeah. I mean that announcement doesn't make me feel good or bad. Like it's just the company's re putting their money back into the business and they're expanding. So I mean like long term. Yeah. I think hopefully things are going to go faster. But yeah, the prices are going to keep going up. Right. That's just nature. So they gotta, they gotta recoup that 200 million faster. Right. For the stakeholders. So the easiest way to do that is raise, raise the cost of grading and people just accept it. And what are we going to do? Go to somewhere else. It's going to be the same thing. So we're trapped. We're trapped. Yeah, exactly. I mean, if once the grading cost gets high enough, I guess people will stop sending as much junk or like five $10 cards. So that may kind of alleviate the whole system. But then you're just looking at spending 50, 60 bucks on bulk grading, which is kind of crazy because if you think about it like five years ago, what were we paying? Like 14 and we're already at 45. Yeah, that's. So times have changed quickly. That's for sure. Yeah. Well, what do you think? Yeah, I think it's almost gonna create more of a problem. Right now there's no point in sending any sports cards, like unless they're the high end stuff like Roy's saying. Like, you know, you're not gonna send them the five dollar ten cards because they're ROI is not there. You're paying a lot just to guess at a grade. And so the only people who are. And, and if you saw I think a sports card nonsense had the, the main guy from PSA on and they were talking about. Right. How Boston card hunters, like championing this cause of no, no PSA may. And they just like laugh in his face because they're like, oh yeah, we've had more submissions in May. Thank you. Anywhere else. And they're just kind of laughing it off. And it's just, I mean one like that's kind of gross. Like it's like you are, you are not hearing the frustrations of the hobby and you're just laughing it off. That's a little annoying. But also like, like there's no, there's no point in selling, sending your sports cards. So the only cards that are gonna go is just more tcg, it's more Pokemon cards. So I think just because Pokemon is the only market where it's just, you see this crazy, crazy jump right now. And I say, I think all the low end, lower end sports cards you're not going to see send graded, send to grading. And, and I don't know what that means for the hobby, for sports cards. And Pokemon just keeps flooding the market. So I mean if you're sick and tired of Pokemon, it's not going anywhere. It's going to continue dominating all the hobby headlines and PSA is just going to keep supporting that. And like you said, you know, you look at the headline, the headline is always there to distract you from something else. And you know they're saying, oh, 200 mil. And it's like I think in the post about the no, no, PSA may, they said they, I forget what number he used. But it's just like, oh, we're on track for X amount of submissions for the year. And then you realize when you do the math, you take that number times $40. If it's just the base, like just the bulk, they're making so much more money than 200 million. $200 million is a bucket. Yeah, it's nothing for them. And so it's like they make this buzzy like, like big sounding number, $200 million investment. And then you realize, oh, that is a small fraction of the money that they're pulling in. And that's the frustrating thing. I don't know that they're making the hobby better by put it with this investment. Exactly. My. They said they're going to be hiring a thousand new graders or something like. Yeah, how like the consistency of grading will definitely have like a hiccup during that time, I feel. Oh for sure. I, I would think so. So they see there, there's going to be a lot more tens just because they think, oh this looks good or they're going to be too strict and be like. And then so there's going to be a fluctuation during that time of like Getting these graders up to speed, having a certain standard because a thousand new staff trying to teach them to be all on the same page. I feel like it's going to be a big hurdle for them. Yeah. So hopefully they can stay consistent. But really, I mean, my counter argument was like, are they consistent now? That too, but I feel like it'd be even worse. No. If you get a bunch of people with that, like that new, new higher mentality, I'm going to be the heart, the best grader and make sure, like, tens are only tens. So then there's going to be, you know, they're going to suffer in that sense. Yeah. I don't know. If only there was a grading company that used AI to help with their grading. Oh, wait, there is one. And they've also decided to delay returns and increase pricing. So that's. That's a business mistake. But yes. Tag, we're talking to you. Okay. Get your act together. Come on. Yeah, I agree with all those points. I don't have to go over them again. But you kind of alluded to it. With millions and millions of cards being submitted right now saying that they're going to hire 1,000 more graders seems like not enough. Not nearly enough. It's like, don't Worry, we got 1,000 more coming. Greaters coming. We're investing 200 million. It should be a billion dollars, at least in investments. If you want to provide some context, I think a billion dollars would be more noteworthy than the 200 million. But anyway, let's move on from PSA to Beckett, which of course Collectors holdings also owns. But they did come out with a new label design for their slabs, and you could check it out on their newly designed website@beckett.com. a lot of things seem to finally be happening now that Collectors Inc. Took over. So. Yeah. What do you guys think about the new labels? We talked about it a little bit off air. I mentioned that what a lot of people I think are saying the difference seems minimal. You could see the difference, but it's not like a night and day difference. Right. But the biggest one is for me, at least as a baseball autograph rookie autograph collector, the autograph portion of it, you don't see that square grade. It's just right underneath it. Like, Roy, you were saying off air, like the PSA slap. So that's the major difference I saw with the new label. I don't feel strongly either way. If I bought a card with the old Beckett label, I wouldn't be upset if I got it with a new one, I wouldn't be overly excited either, so I'm kind of in the middle. But what about you guys? What do you guys think about the new redesign? I kind of like it. Like, if you're a true Beckett fan, it's nice because it's a subtle change. It's not a big change. So you feel. Still feel like you have that. That classic Beckett look, but the font is a little bigger and nicer, more clear. The grading number is a little bit bigger, and they have, like, the. The QR code, which is, you know, it's a nice feature, but it's not like a make or break. But, yeah, they kept it. They kept it as close to classic as possible with a little bit of improvement, which I kind of like. They. That's fair. Yeah. For me, I always hated that 10 autograph, but, like, I was never a Beckett fan to begin with in terms of that sense. So, like, seeing that upgrade, I could see why that kind of can upset some people. Because, like, especially baseball enthusiasts, they love that, like, 10 auto. I never liked it, but at the same time, like, I feel like that's probably the biggest change, so I don't mind it. I kind of like it. It's not as, like, in your face, but I don't have any autos. I never really collected autos, so that's kind of like, whatever for me. But overall, I like it. It's clean but very true to what it used to be. So Roy's gonna remain a PSA snob. That's what I'm getting from his answer. But I'd be sending a lot more to Beckett these days, so. Oh, yeah, that's true with the. We're trying to get that black label. Yeah. Yeah. Well, your thoughts? Yeah, I think overall, it's good forward movement. It doesn't have to be. You don't have to get all the way there to becoming a respectable card creating company again. But these little steps are all in the right direction. I like the overall look of it. I genuinely don't understand why we need auto grading. Like, why. Why is that a thing? Because I can. Any one of us can look at an auto and be like, oh, that's a nice auto, or, oh, the auto looks kind of splotchy or streaky or whatever. Yeah. And I don't think I've ever seen worse than a 9 auto. Have you seen an 8 auto or a 7 auto or a 1 auto? Like, dude, my Mike Trout Bowman Chrome bass got a 7 auto, which is another reason why I don't like PSA. But anyway, go ahead. But like, can you tell like. No. What's a 7 auto versus exactly. You can't. Yeah, so you can't. I don't really understand the point of an auto grade if it's to say like, oh, this is like a very clean looking auto. It's like. Yeah, but I could tell that by just looking at it. So I don't really need the grade for it. But I mean, that's what BGS was kind of was always very popular for, for the, for the Bowmans and all that. But with that argument, can't you just say BGS 10 and a black label? They look the same too, right? Like that's true. Yeah, I mean they're, they're, they're the same car. It's just 0.5 difference on one category. Yeah. Genuinely, I don't respect block several thousand dollars in difference in terms of value. Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I mean, we don't have to talk about this again. Grading grades and how much I hate them. Don't open that door right now. Yeah, no, that's, that's all fair points. Yeah. It's funny, like I don't mind the auto grades because I guess I, I'm more of a baseball autograph rookie collector, like I was saying. But then you, you mind when you get a 7 auto, you're like, holy smokes, nuts. And then so I got it changed to authentic instead. But you know, it does definitely impact the value of the card. All right, let's go on to next one because we have a few more on these mini hobby headlines segment. This is for you, Will. There are some bounties from some high end WWE cards. Will, do you want to share which card is being targeted? Including a basketball player named Karl Anthony Towns who should probably be more focused on the NBA Eastern Conference Championship finals match. But he's apparently a big WWE card collector too and he's offered a bounty. So. Yeah, give us the details for our listeners, which card we're talking about. Well, first off, I gotta say WWE's done a really great job of just entering into every other market, this ESPN partnership. Like during WrestleMania season I watched so much ESPN like first take and like all these shows because wrestlers would be on it. And it's crazy how much impact WWE's having right now. And even in the NBA playoffs with the, with the Knicks, with Cat. I don't know if you guys know the story of Danhausen. No. So Danhausen's this indie wrestler. He, he created his character to be like inspired by the zaniness of Conan o'. Brien. And Conan o' Brien is like my number one life hero. But anyway, he goes, he's like a vampire. He goes around, he curses people. He cursed Stephen A. Smith and the Knicks and they started losing. Then he uncursed the Knicks and from that point the Knicks have been on this run in the playoffs, winning and winning, winning. And so before the last game, they brought Danhausen to Madison Square Garden, took photos, he cursed the calves and then the calves lost. And so it's, it's crazy how much influence. But anyway, this card is from Tops Royalty, which is wrestling's or Tops's premiere card set. Kind of like, like a National Treasures kind of thing. And inside of it they put the WrestleMania patch autos. So they're one of ones. Yeah, so they're pretty cool. And the, the card that's being bountied right now is The John Cena WrestleMania patch auto. Yeah. From his final WrestleMania. I believe the patch is from this, this past WrestleMania. Yeah, it's a big card. It's a big card. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I, I believe I read that Cat has issued a 60k bounty. But that's not gonna do it, right? Oh yeah, it was immediate. It was already lower than. I don't even know why he said that, cuz I, I think even before he put that out there, there was already two hundred thousand dollar bounties. That's like me say like, hey, I'll put a ninety five thousand dollar bounty out on this John Cena card. You heard it here first, that card Slaboo. But I mean, isn't that like the allure, I guess of like. Because I never heard of any other bounty, but I've heard of Cat. Cat's bounty because he has that kind of aura. Right. Or that influence. Yes. So like, because I don't know the wwe. WWE space. Yeah. So if I were to have pulled it, if I only know of cat's bounty of 60k, like he could have gotten a steal, right? Yeah, but you would have, you would have googled bounties. Like you would have found out very quickly that there's bigger bounties out there for, for this. Maybe you're just a big Knicks fan and you know What? Cat's like 60k plus courtside. Courtside. Yeah, dude, big Knicks. Yeah, yeah, that might do the deal. Yeah, yeah. I mean like if he can, if he can increase the value, then sure, it's worth listening to. But yeah, that John Cena card It's, it's gonna be, I think it's gonna be quarter of a million dollars at least. You gonna bid on it? Do it. Do it. Mortgage your house for it? You mean remortgage my house? Put a third mortgage on this house? Come on. It's gonna double. In all seriousness though, like, how do you feel about, you know, this kind of like spotlight now on like WWE cards? You know, it wasn't that long ago where you're like, you know, saying, am I doing the right thing? Just focusing on WWE cards now it seems like a few months later, it's like night and day situation right now. Yeah, you know what? Today I actually looked up card ladder's index and remember we talked a while back about how wrestling's the only one in the red, right? And now if you look every single time threshold, like two weeks, one month, three months, they're all up. So I mean, the whole hobby's up. But it shows like there was this lull because there was no product out there. And now there's like, you know, now they have that record sale of the Randy Orton card, The, the, the WrestleMania patch auto of his and all of that contributes to it making the hobby more exciting. So now that there's These, you know, 2026 tops Chrome, the second year it just got released and it's kind of revitalized the hobby. So, yeah, it's, it's great to see wrestling really booming right now. There's a lot of interest, there's a lot of attention. Some will argue that the product, like actual wrestling is not so good right now. The storylines are left a little wanting, but I mean, those are grown men who are complaining about a show for 12 year olds, really. So. And you know, there's ebbs and flows, you know, so. But you know, the good thing, speaking about 12 year olds is now that there's this consistent product coming out that looks good, that has value, it's kind of like, you know, Pokemon in the early stages or even like some of the, like baseball and stuff like that. The kids who are watching now, who are collecting now in 10 to 15 to 20 years, they're gonna look back and be like, oh man, that first year tops Chrome wrestling that second year, like the wrestlers that they grew up loving, they're gonna be chasing these cards. So, yeah, I mean, I might be delusional and I might be tricking myselves myself, but I'm, I'm high on, I'm high on wrestling. I mean, maybe it's because you Talk about it on a monthly basis on our pod. But I'm. I'm kind of buying it too. Like, I never grew up really being a huge wrestling fan. You know, I knew the, the Goats and the big time wrestlers. Right. But. But I feel. I feel myself getting into it more. And my algorithm is just constantly feeding WWE clips now. It's just. There's so much stu. Some W content. Yeah, yeah, it was just great. Yeah. All right, well, we were talking about Cat getting into WWE cards. Speaking of other athletes now, Jacob Mizuroski, I think that's how you say his last name. He had an interview with Jeff Passon about his extensive Pokemon card collection. And I don't know if you saw the interview, but he showed up. He showed off his huge binder that was half his size. And Jacob Miz, he's 6 foot 7. So like the binder is like half his size, was at least 3ft tall, but he showed off his modern and vintage Pokemon cards. So I want to ask you, Roy, what do you think of athletes and even other high profile celebs? Obviously, we know Justin Bieber is a collector as well, showing their love for Pokemon cards. What do you think that has. Do you think that has any impact on the market? Or is it just so hot that, you know, it's. It's just. I mean, I love it, I love it, I love it that like, these high profile athletes are, you know, not. Not have no shame saying, I like Pokemon. You know, I like collecting Pokemon because when I was collecting, like even five years ago, I tell my friends, like, you're such a loser. Why are you collecting Pokemon? That's for kids. And like now you see these, you know, athletes collecting, sharing their, like their journey or like, you know, videos of them ripping. Like, it just kind of normalizes the whole. The whole hobby. Yeah. And it makes it seem like, oh, you know, it's acceptable. Like, oh, like one of the best pitchers in the league is collecting Pokemon cards. He has no shame. And he, he enjoys it. Like, it makes it not like, more accessible, like accessible, but like more accepting, I guess, to those who think it's kind of foolish or Right. You know, because if you think about it from like, like where I'm 40 and I'm collecting Pokemon cards, but, you know, I had no shame, but other people would kind of judge and be like, oh, you're kind of weird, but, you know, my whole life was like that. Now it's cool, you know, these rich celebs and, yeah, these influencers in our society. To your point. Right. It's. It's making more acceptable, for sure. And, you know, like, when I see that, I'm reminded that, like, a lot of these guys like Jacob, like, they're in their 20s, so they grew up or they have this nostalgic memory of. Of collecting. So the timing is perfect for that. And yeah, who's the other guy? There's another LA Dodgers pitcher that had his glove that you can. One of the cards inserted into the webbing of his glove. Right, yeah, yeah, I saw that. I was actually gonna ask if that was this guy, but it was another guy. He has that glove too, but there's another picture with the. His own version of that glove. Yeah. So, like it. You know, people are realizing this is a kind of more acceptable. You should have no shame in enjoying the things that you enjoy. So, yeah, I like seeing it. And yeah, it's. It's interesting. You get to see people, how they collect. Like, these guys are multi millionaires, but sometimes they're not chasing like the PSA 10 huge cards. They're just either set collecting or they're doing something that, you know, with their spouse or with their kids kind of collecting together. And you could kind of witness that journey. So it's pretty awesome to see. Yeah. And, you know, every time I have a podcast with you guys, the one guy that just connects everything, it's always Logan Paul. Right? Logan Paul is always the guy that connects everything together when the three of us are on. But I don't know if you saw. But that reminds me, you know, with celebs getting into Pokemon, you know, they're. They're big time. Everyone's shouting them. And then so often the case, even with these baseball players, there's always one person like, hey, I got a Pokemon card pack. And then they stopped dead under their tracks. It's like, what? Yeah, they start giving them attention. They want to rip. And you can see that they're true fans. Right. Same thing with Logan Paul opening that base set. 1999 base set, and just opening in front of the fans. And then I just saw this recently. I don't know if you saw it, Will, but Logan Paul said he doesn't ask anyone to sign any cards. Except the one time he did, it was John Cena, when, I guess there was a top snout card featuring Logan Paul and John Cena. And he. He asked essentially as a fan, to sign it. He said he's not gonna ever sell that card. But there you go, another guy just being a great ambassador for both wwe and, and Pokemon, I gotta say, Logan Paul, he's growing on me. Nice. Yeah. Okay, let's bring this full circle. We started off with the PSA $200 million announcement and ironically they had a fraud report released maybe a month ago now. And I'm going to read a bit of the fraud report just to give people a little bit more context. It says in that report, advances in computer technology combined with the explosion of secondary market prices made the industry susceptible. And today they are frequent and often sophisticated. Counterfeiters are no longer just targeting the hobby's most valuable assets. They are attacking every segment of the market, from vintage to modern inexpensive and mid tier cards to ultra scarce case hits, even widely available promotional cards. And then end quote, and they estimated, PSA estimated $200 million plus worth of fake cards were intercepted largely through the ebay authenticity program that I've definitely taken advantage of by shipping my cards through ebay. So they say they saved about 200 million. And then, you know, a few weeks later they announced a $200 million announcement of how much they're investing. So I guess it's even for them. Oh, one more thing before I get your thoughts. They also provide a list of some of the top categories where they see the counterfeit taking place. And number one is Pokemon. It's not that surprising just because of the, the incredible value of some of these Pokemon cards. So Pokemon's number one, baseball's number two, you got basketball, number three, football number four. So you got the major sports. Then you got Yu Gi, oh, magic Disney, Lorcana, one piece going from five to eight TCG cards. And then rounding off the top 10 are the other major sports, hockey. And then you got soccer. So any thoughts or surprises from that list? These counterfeiters know nothing about wrestling. They're not interested. That's the next opportunity. They're like, Will's going to buy a printer. It was number 11, don't worry. Number 11 on that list. Question for you, Roy, because you primarily deal with Pokemon cards. Like do you take the time to see if it's fake? You know what I mean? Like, especially with these big cards. I mean for the most part I could pretty much tell what a fake card looks like and what it doesn't. But again, I've never, I don't deal shows like every weekend, so I'm not seeing as much volume, but from what I hear, some, some of these fakes can be pretty good. So I haven't seen those fakes in person, but for the most part I could tell what is real and what's not? Yeah, I mean I think I saw a fake like I don't at the expo and they came out to my booth. I, I, you know, I'm not an expert obviously with Pokemon cards, but it was, I can't remember the name of the card but I think I looked up the comp for them and if it was a PS810 it would have been like 6,7000 bucks and it wouldn't be PSA 10 because there was a little bit of damage. But even at lower grades, it's one of those cards. I remember lower grades, you still get like 1 2000, you know, I mean. Okay, so yes, probably like a vintage card then, right? Like, or something of that, like mid era. It wasn't vintage, like it wasn't that yellow background, but it's, it was like a full art. But then when you look at the back, it looked very faded, you know, like it just didn't look well. Anyway, I wasn't gonna buy it, but when I told them to, you know, maybe get it graded, very hesitant. So it's like, am I reading just too much into this? But, but yeah, made me think of that one situation. But I think you gotta be careful. Yeah. 100%. Like one time I bought a card off Mercari in Japan. It was a Munch Pikachu raw. I remember like that one, I, I knew. You guys remember this, right? It was a, it was just like a Japanese regular, random Japanese card with, they just placed a sticker on top and they cut the corners like really carefully. Yeah. Thankfully I got my money back. This was back when I think I paid like 1100 US for RAW. But yeah, so luckily I got my money back. But yeah, people are doing some crazy things to, you know, when money comes into the hobby at this speed, they'll do anything to kind of try to get, you know, shake some money out of people, unfortunately. Well, any thoughts before we close off the segment? Well, I just wonder how many counterfeit cards have passed through our hands over the years. Right. Like it's probably happened, we're just not aware of it. Like we've transacted so many cards. I hope not. But who knows? For the most part, like we're, when we're buying cards, we're either ripping or we're like buying. How many cards are we buying? Right. I mean, I mean I, I bought a lot, like a singles, but for the most part I could tell which ones are real and fake, hopefully. I just feel like there's always A chance it could have slipped. Yeah. Right through your hands. You could have had it for a while and sold it and flipped it or whatnot. It's just. Yeah. Next pod episode, I'm gonna bring, like, some fake cards and real cards, and we'll test Roy. It's gonna be. It's gonna be fun. See how good he actually is. All right, for that, I'll just read quickly. The top subjects are, like, the characters or the players that get the most counterfeited from the report, and then we can move on. Number one is Charizard. Number two is MJ. So MJ's right below Charizard. Number three is Pikachu. You got two of the Pokemon characters in the top three. Then you got Mickey mantle number four. Then you got Gengar number five, Tom Brady number six, Rayquaza number seven, Umbreon eight, Mewtwo number nine, and King Griffey Jr. At number ten. So Pokemon just dominating all the goats. The goats of Pokemon are getting counterfeited like crazy. But there you go. Be careful, especially if you're looking to buy Charizard out there. Okay, let's go ahead to our next segment, and it's called Quiz Show. All right, we're gonna do this quickly because, as usual, we're running long on time. But first question for you guys. Speaking of Pokemon Japan, they are cracking down on scalpers. I don't know if you saw this, but one store. One Pokemon store recently did something after they sold two packs of, I believe, as ascended heroes to a buyer. What did they do to prevent scalping of those packs? What do you think they did? So someone bought two packs from a Japanese store? Yeah. And what did the Japanese store do at the checkout? I'm guessing they opened the. The pack for them or, like, cut. Cut it open a sliver or part of the package. You got it. They. They cut the corner of the pack before they gave it to them. Was it. Was the corner cut, like, just where the seal is, or did they actually. You could put a seal. You could put a finger in the. Okay, okay, okay. So they. Yeah, yeah. So any thoughts on what. What. What they're doing in terms of trying to prevent flippers essentially of. Of their products? I mean, if it's just a couple packs and the. The new set, like, what's the harm in that? Like, no one's buying two packs and saying, I'm gonna flip these two packs for 50 cents more than I bought it or, you know, $4 more than I paid for it. Like, then why Are they cutting it? It's unlikely that they're gonna flip. That's true too. I don't know. Just to ensure, like, you know, if I'm gonna sell this product to you at retail price, I want it to go into a collector's hand. You guys could go off and open it. Sure. But yeah, I guess, I don't know. I guess it's just two packs, but they're doing it in large volumes. Right. So these guys could kind of come back every single day or wear a disguise and come back and buy another two packs. Okay. That's like the same. But he has a mustache on this time. Yeah. There's these guys on social. They, they buy, they always go to Target. They buy a pack or their, their limit of two. Yeah. And then they dress up into like Jesse and James and then they go back in and buy a second limit. But to answer your question, like, I think, I think people do flip. Like, I think the Pokemon card mark is so hot right now that they're flipping whatever product that they can get. So I think that's why they're doing it. I mean, I kind of like it, like if it's a sealed product, like a fully sealed, like people, I know that they're sealed collectors, but if it's a couple packs like, and you're selling it for MSRP and you want it to go into collector's hands and, you know, I don't mind it. All right. Another piece of news I don't know if you saw in August 2026. Apparently you'll need a government ID if you're a Japan resident to purchase future TCG or Pokemon products. Well, you like that? It sounds a lot like the episode where I was yelling the whole time. So you want this never happen? That'll never happen. You want this in Canada? Privacy, social insurance number to buy. Well, I, I know in North America, in North America and US especially, there's, there's always this fear of big government. Right. Like, we don't want the government to be so heavily involved in our day to day life and all that kind of stuff. But even, you know, we, we are, our bloodline comes from Korea. And if you look at Korea, they've got stuff like that where if you want to go on the Internet, you have to be registered with your, your state id, you know, so that your state ID is linked to your actual cell phone number. Yeah, like everything's linked, right? Yeah, everything's linked because there's just like this terrible history of like cyberbullying. And just, like, being an awful person online because nobody can see who you are. And so, yeah, I mean, like, I don't really like big government either. But also, at the same time, I think government has to step in to protect its citizens at times. I don't know if this qualifies, like, purchasing Scalcavers, the top priority for government right now. But I'm so frustrated with the system that I might be like, yeah, government needs to step in here, Will. It's gonna go to one of these town hall meetings and ask a question like, but what are you doing about the Pokemon retail market? Have you seen the EQL lineup? It's just wild. You need to do something about this scam that's online. All right, question number two. Everything's going up in the hobby, including Star wars and a 1977 Star wars card called the villainous Darth Vader. A PSA 10 version just sold, becoming the most expensive Darth Vader card sold ever. Right. So question is, how much did it go for? And the previous high, I believe, was, like 43, 44,000. So obviously higher than that. But what do you think I thought I saw? Do you know when that sale was? I feel like it was recently because I just saw it on Instagram. You think you saw the answer? I thought while I was doing my research for pick one, I thought I saw it. So, okay, Roy can guess, and then you can. I'm gonna say $450,000. Okay. That's a 10x increase. All right, well, what did you think you saw now? I think I'm wrong. You said, what was the sale before it was like, 45,000. Yeah. Oh, maybe that's the one I saw. Then. He saw the previous record, not the new record. Okay, so take any guess. Let's just two exit. Let's say 100k. It's right in between 206,250 bucks. Wow. So there you go. Wasn't there also, like, the Luke Skywalker vintage car that sold? Yeah, that. I think that did, like, a million or something, right? Yeah, I think that's the highest of all time for Star Wars. Yeah, I mean, I like Darth Vader a little better, actually, in terms of car collecting. So there might be a deal. It is a cooler look. Yes. I'm looking at a 2022 Star Wars. There's a nice refractor version of Justice Head, so I might pull the trigger on one of them. Yeah. Galaxy card that you bought then? No, I sold it. Oh, you did? Yeah. Yeah, I wish I had it, but I want to get a. Because there's a Mojo refractor number to 50. I wouldn't mind getting like an X factor number to 10 if that pops up. Yeah, like a nice chromium. Star wars chromium. Darth Vader card would look really cool. Yeah, I think. Yeah, If I pick it up, I'll let you guys know. All right, two more quick questions. And this is both baseball. Which pitcher is the COVID athlete for the 2020 Six Tops finest baseball set that's coming out? Which pitcher? My natural guess would be skeins, but I'm guessing it's not. I'm guessing it's this Jacob guy. Jacob. He's doing well under two era. What do you think will last? Shohei? Oh, that's closer. It's his teammate, Yamamoto. Yamamoto. He's doing well, too. So there you go. All right, last one. How much did I hate that I said his name? I know. It sucks even more that the Jays are sucking too, and the Dodgers are doing just fine. You know what I mean? Anyway, how much? Speaking of hated athletes. Well, this guy's a nice guy, but he plays for a hated rival. How much did the 2013 Bowman Chrome Aaron Judge SuperFractor, one of one non auto card in a PSA9 sell for recently? I'll give you a multiple choice. Is it over 250k, over 500k, over 750k or over a million dollars? Not auto, over 500k? Okay, yeah, I was gonna say the same. I think it's probably just over 500. If I had to guess. The correct answer is over 750k because it's sold for 838,800 for the non auto. We could thank Young, who is, you know, last year was for several months to pick one on Aaron Judge every week. Every week. So he's undervalued. And finally, Aaron Judge getting his props, which, you know what, I still think he's undervalued. Like, everyone's still paying attention to Ohtani, as they should. He's killing it as a pitcher. Not so much as a batter this year, but, you know, still decent. Whereas Aaron Judge, what, 14, 15 home runs already? Like, he's just quietly putting another stellar season. So Aaron Judge still underrated, in my opinion. He's getting struck out by a savage three times. So that felt good. We'll take our wins when we can, right? That was a hell of a game. Okay, let's finish our episode with our regular weekly segment we call Pick One. All right, well, do you want to start things off for us? Yeah, yeah. So I talked about it just very briefly a little earlier. Randy Orton's WrestleMania card. Nice card. Patch Auto just sold. There was a lot of attention drawn to it. I believe it sold for. What did I write? 40, 50. 57,000 Canadian. Yeah, in US it would be something. 40 something, but yes. $57,000. 57,000 Canadian. It's a really beautiful card. It's got the WrestleMania patch from WrestleMania 41. He had a great match against Joe Hendry as a surprise match. You don't need to know who Joe Hendry is right now. Oh, but he is. He is fighting with Logan Paul and he made a song called Can We Fire Logan Paul? And it's. It's so catchy and it's so in the zeitgeist that his own brother was singing it to him on like an Instagram or streaming. He's like singing about firing his brother. But anyway, that Randy Orton card, $57,000 or a PSA 9. 1986 Fleer, Michael Jordan pop 3000. There's 300 PSA 10s. There's 3000 PSA 9s. Last sold, $55,000 Canadian. Which one would you pick? Go ahead, Roy. Do you. Do you have a picture of the first card? The. The WrestleMania one? Yeah, I could send it to you. Well, okay, I'll go first while we'll send it to Roy. But as much as I'm getting into wrestling and the. The WrestleMania patch auto card is sweet. Looks really nice. I can't go against, you know, MJ's FLIR. Iconic FLIR. I don't even. I don't even need to look at the picture. What am I talking about? Come on, we're both gonna choose mj. I just said to you. I just said to choose. See if it changes your mind. It's gotta blow his mind away. It's gotta blow his mind. It's gotta be the patches of patches. I was even thinking like, Randy Orton, you know, he's arguably first. He doesn't know who Randy Orton is. Yeah, he doesn't even. One of the goats I remember putting. I saw him walking. Walking in the same room as me or even. Even sitting across from me at, like, a bar. I would not know who he was. Well, you, you. I would just be like, yo, that guy's jacked. Yeah, exactly. I'd be like, I have no idea who this guy is. It's true. I remember when I put up Cody Rhodes in my pick one and Roy's like, first of all, who's Cody Rhodes? So if he doesn't know who Cody Rhodes is, he definitely doesn't know who Randy Orton is. So yeah, two MJ votes. And you know what, I'll say this about MJ, like when it's PSA 9, you're always, I'm always looking at the PSA 10 value and if there's a big difference, then I feel like the PSA9 is like it's safe, you know, I mean like there's not a lot of PSA 10 buyers just because it's what, 300k? 250. 300k. So PSA 9 at 55k, it's a lot of money. But you know, it's, it's, there will be a lot of other buyers at that level because they don't want to pay up six figures for a PSA 10 card. So MJ it is. Yeah, I pick the one of one Randy Orton card. He has to save his own. Pick one. That's right. No, I don't. I would go against my, I would go against my own 101 if it was warranted. But I just think, you know, the 86 flare, it is super iconic, but there's hundreds of thousands of them out there. And not in a PSA 9, not a PSA 9, but there are 3,000. But there's only one Randy Orton and it is currently the second highest wrestling card ever sold. So there's some prestige attached to it. Obviously when the Cena card and some other cards come out from the debut or from the WrestleMania patches, it might, it might not be the second highest card anymore. But Randy Orton's 14 time champion just behind John Cena's never seen 17. I can't, I can't even. There's no way. Even the second highest argument's weak. No one remembers the silver medalist. Come on. I mean it's the same question, would you rather have a PSA 1086 FLIR Jordan or the John Cena? WrestleMania 101. I'm still picking, I'm still picking. Raising the stakes. MJ, right? I mean MJ, but I don't know. Will, how much is the PSA 10 worth? Two hundred and fifty. Two hundred and fifty. And we're saying, you're saying the, the Cena card will probably go for like 250. So. Yeah, that's a good one. And I said that. I hate grading. I probably pick, I'll probably pick. I probably pick Jordan. We got him. We got him. PSA 10. That's what got me. I can't believe it. Oh, Will, man, why? Everything I stand against, I just crumble. Well, my last rant on the last episode was for you. I'm like, we have to take. We have to take certain responsibility for putting, you know, where PSA is, how they treat us. We just keep going back. I know. We really. They really have us in a toxic relationship. Bulk's gonna be 70 bucks soon, and we're still gonna be submitting. And then we're gonna be waiting a whole year just to get it back. Oh, man, this is sad. All right, move on to the next one. Yes, Roy. All right, I'll go with The Chinese exclusive mew. It's from the 151. Yeah. There's only a 15. 10 copies printed. Total. Total, yeah. So that they cap it at that pop 10 or. Sorry, PSA 10 is a pop. 451 sold for about 45k. And this car, this card is continually going up, every sale. Crazy. Yeah. So would you rather have this card. Beautiful artwork or something that's kind of more niche and rare? It's the Corocoro design contest with Zoroark. So these. These were like. They had different grades. Like. Like middle schoolers send in their artwork to design a card. So for this, there's like a. I think there's like five or six or seven variants, and this is one of them. It's the ichiban. So PSA 10 is a pop 40, and total pop, like, all together is 53. Yeah. This one sold for about 55k. So would you rather have the mew for 45k or this extremely rare design card for. It's easy, 55k, easy for me. Even before I read the description of that, that really exclusive card, I was thinking right away that my youngest son, Roman, looked like he drew that. And then you're like, oh, it says it's a great school. Okay, that makes sense. So I was right on the money. Yeah. And he can. I. I know my youngest is too young. Young to listen to this podcast, but whenever he brings artwork home from school. Right. Right into the recycling bin, right into the. I got. I actually had to hide it because if he sees it, he'll be like, daddy, why is this in here? So when he's asleep right after. I mean, they're just prolific artists at this age, you know, I mean, they bring so much home, I can't keep up. So anyway, the mew, beautiful card. I. You know, I loved it the first time I Saw it, so that's very easy for me. I'm going with the mew. Nice. Yeah, I'm all about artwork. Yeah. I. I can't stand looking at that other card. Really. It makes me, like. I'm trying to convince myself that I like it. Like, I'm like, oh, it's so exclusive. It's so rare. It's got. Got all the legendary. Yeah, I was gonna say it's got all the legendary Pokemon on it, but it's like all the Pokemon I hate. I don't know. There's no 151. I mean, what's the. What? Isn't that Articuno in the corner? Or is that not Articuno Suicune? The looks like blue. Oh, Lugia. Top right. Oh, that's Lugia. See, like, yeah. Ho. Bottom right. Yeah. I don't. I don't like any of these legendaries. I can't believe that this won the contest. Like, somebody's. Somebody's mom or somebody's dad should draw. Yeah. Should have drawn a better picture and submitted it so that we don't. Yeah, I go with them. You're cruel. Oh, man. For me, like, these are the kind of cards I like. Very niche. Japanese. Like, promote, type, or, like, design. So I have to go with the Zoroark. You guys are all saving your own. Pick ones today. I don't know. I love, like, the low pop. The rarity. Like, there's only, like. So each winner of the contest, they got 200 of the cards? I believe so. So that kid is. That kid is rich. Millionaire. He's either rich or he's poor because he just threw them away or just gave them to his friends. Oh, yeah. How old? They shoved him in his pocket. What is that, 1999? Grade 4. So that's a year older than Benny. Okay, but when did this come out? 2010. Okay, 2010. Yeah. So he's 15 years old. He's a face. I hope he doesn't listen to this podcast. All right. Okay. We'll finish off with my pick one, the Bubble Mew. I love that card. But the black label sold recently for 240k. Incredible sale. Pop 2. Just to put things into perspective, for 240k, you could also get a Kanji Auto. Shohei Ohtani. I believe it's the upper deck. Goodwin Champs. Yes. The Exquisite. But it's graded PSE7. And then speaking of auto grade, Kanji auto has a 10. I don't know how you grade that as a 10 or nine. It's like you know what? That slant right there is a. No, there's no streaks. That's why. Okay. But I mean, my auto 7, there was no streak on that either, so I don't get how they grade these autos, but. Yeah. Which one are you taking? The Ohtani PSA 7 auto 10 kanji auto or the bubble mew? Black label? English for 240k. As much as I love that bubble mew, that sale makes no sense. I have to go with the Kanji Otani. Wow. Okay. But the other. So this POP two, the other one. Yeah. Has now been consigned to go right after this. So is it gonna probably. Oh, is it gonna do more? It's probably gonna do more. I don't know. I don't know if it's consigned on auction. I don't think it's on sale yet, but it's been consigned. Interesting. The bubble beer. Wow. This was pop two. This one sold for 240. So the owner of the. The other card, the other Black Label, has consigned. Okay. So it'll stay pop, too. It's not like a third black Label. There's no third one yet. But, you know, still a modern card, like, Right? You never know. It can be. Yeah. By the end, like, in 15 years, when Ohtani is retired, this card will be worth them, well over a million bucks. This mew could be pop 20 by then. Right. So I think. I mean, good argument. Pop Control. Pop five. Right. So whatever it may be. Good point. I have to go with the Ohtani. Well, I hate this. What? It's. It's so clearly Shohei. Okay. I hate block labels. You hate black people. It's like, yeah, until you get one, then. You love black labels. Black labels are like the. It's like. It's almost like a joke. Like, it's. What do you mean? It's like. It's like, how far can we push people into believing that our grading is important? It's like. Let's just. That's just. You know, it's not a 10. It's not a 10 plus to 10 plus plus plus black label. I mean, if your kid comes home with an A plus plus perfect score, every time you're happy comes with an A. You're like, where's the plus? How come you got 85? Not. Not 100? Yes. You're still going to complain, right? So I just feel like 10 out of 10 is a 10 out of 10. They're telling me that a 10 out of 10 is different when it's a black 10 out of 10. But anyway, the Shohei card, it's. Yeah, it's gonna be the true auto. It's a true rookie auto too. Right. So I also. I'm also a huge fan of that upper deck, exquisite rookie autograph card style. Like, I have a. Have a Derozan like that. Yeah. Oh, you do? Yeah, yeah, they're iconic cards. Yep. It's. It's an easy sweep. I'm going with Ohtani PSA 7 auto 10. But I don't know. You know, the Pokemon card market is unpredictable, and even with the pot count rising to five, I've seen crazier things happen in the Pokemon car market, so. But I believe the Ohtani. If I put a poll up, there would be Ohtani sweep. Yeah, I mean, I feel like Ohtani's done enough already in his career. Like, if it ended now, he'd still be like, hall of Fame, right? So true. He might even win a Cy Young this year. It's gonna be. Yeah. So he's just getting more like, we. We just gotta buy Ohtani now. Like, you're right after. Too late. Yeah, it's like that meme you always see. Should have bought Ohtani. Should have bought a Tani last year. Should have bought Ohtani last year. Every year it's just like, yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. All right, let's end this pod so I can look. I can look up Ohtani cards on ebay. Let's see if I pull the trigger. Thanks. May have to collect all our money together because the prices are crazy. That's true. That's true. All right, thanks to all our listeners for tuning in. We'll have a brand new episode for you guys next week. Talk to you then. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening to Cards to the Moon. We'd really appreciate you subscribing to our podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts. And you can also connect with each of us on Instagram @5Card Guys. Or you can follow Hyung @Integility Sportscards or John Tradeview at recess. You can also check us out@fivecartguys.com. thanks again and hope to connect soon.