He Bid $1.2M on Celebrini + Trusting Yourself Over Comps + Would You Gamble on a Young Star?

Michael Jordan Sports cards is a lifestyle. Sports cards and we live now. Jeremy Lee in the building and every guest that you ever needed. Sports cards after hours. Keep the hobby heated. Updates, homie. Talk like you never seen it. Sports cards live. one-of-one none could ever beat it. Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now. Welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host Jeremy Lee. We're gonna bring on the person so what you guys might have heard last weekend we had two 1.3 million dollar sales all basically right within the same day of each other. We saw a haunted Wagner, the Franken Wagner sell for 1.3 million or so. And we also saw the Macklin Celebrini Gold Outburst sell for just shy of $1.3 million. I believe that one's the Celebrini sold on Goldin I believe it was. And we're gonna bring up now if you are, if you are interested in, you know, this hockey card signing for $1.3 million. The hot My friends over the hockey cards gong show, they have had the person who sold the card who had the card and sold it. They've had him on the show twice now. Once sort of before it sold and once after. And those are really interesting. We know Benjamin B. Is the buyer who purchased the card and he is a. He's on Instagram. He's a pretty private person. I think he's been on Instagram before but sorry, on YouTube but without his identity being shared. So he's a private guy, I guess. But we have the under bidder on that card. So Benjamin B. one-of-one the card for $1.28 million. We have the under bidder coming on you. Some of you have probably known and heard him. His name is Jason Coons OTS Sports cards. Jason, I see you down there, but I'm missing half your head. Can you get yourself centered in your frame and I will bring you on the screen. So for me, if you can center yourself in your window or I'll bring you on half head too, we can do that as well. Now he's frozen. There he is. He's lying down. He's comfortable. Jason co, welcome back to the show. How are you? What's going on guys? I'm in a bidding coma right now. You've been buying. You. Well, you, you have about 1.3 million extra dollars on account right now that you didn't buy the Celebrini last week. So glad to your bidding. Listen, I want to bring you on because you came out and said that you were the under bidder on that Macklin celebrity gold outburst for $1,281,000? I was, I was. Can you. Why were you willing to spend so much money money on that card? What is it about that card that you were willing to part with that kind of money for? So, I mean, I guess going like without getting too deep into, I mean, I mean running the algorithm of what I think hockey, where hockey is right now versus like basketball and what, you know, Cooper Flag 101 selling for 5 million and there being several Cooper Flag cards, I think it was pretty clear that this was Celebrini's number one card for sure. And other than Gretzky, I'm heavily invested in like Gretzky Opici and I didn't have a lot of exposure to hockey. And I've. Everybody I talk to is. And they're way more knowledgeable about hockey than I am. Every single person told me this is like the guy, this is the next great. And obviously there's Crosby and there's Ovech, you know, and McDavid, but everybody seemed to kind of have the same feeling that, you know, this is going to be the, the next one-of-one Gretzky. So just kind of dispersing money around and being, having more exposure to hockey now. I did get caught up in the bidding war like, you know, like everything else. Like it sat at 4, 4 or 500,000. And like, you know, I was really comfortable in that 5 to 600,000 range. I was actually like Zebra excited that maybe this thing just, you know, falls. And then of course you get caught up in that bidding war. And then, you know, once you, you kind of go close to double where you want to be, it starts to become uncomfortable. But Yu-Gi-Oh I hit the bid at like a million plus the juice. And then, you know, then it started it like, you know, because obviously it's a long term investment and you start thinking, you know, what's, what is the true are the true roi, you know, is there going to be somebody that comes around and is willing to pay 2 million for this card in five years? Is there somebody? You know, so it's like anything else when you think you're getting a good deal, like, you know, it's like. So Yu-Gi-Oh there was a lot of different thought processes going through it. But you know, even tonight, I mean, tonight, inheritance, I mean, I've gone, I want, you know, I was back a bitter in the 52 Mana last night. 8. I thought I one-of-one that up until 1:30 in the morning and like Got out. Bid. I thought that was an amazing card. So. And then. Yu-Gi-Oh And I. I just. I don't know who. There's a lot of people with a lot of money right now because there's some stuff. I. I one-of-one some really cool stuff tonight, but there are some other stuff that I just gave up on that I'm like, never in a million years did I think that I. I wouldn't have one-of-one it for the prices they bid. So we're definitely living in some wild times right now. Yu-Gi-Oh we absolutely are. I'm. Are you getting feedback from me? No, I'm hearing it. Okay. I'm just gonna. Yu-Gi-Oh okay. It's okay. I'm gonna mute. I'm gonna mute Jason while I talk. Jason. I'm gonna. I'm gonna just. You're good. Don't change anything. Jason. Okay. You mute yourself. That's fine. I'll meet you. I'll do it. Okay. So, Jason, there's the. There's this one guy. I don't know if I've ever seen him in the chat before, but he's kind of making some comments towards you. I'm going to read them to you because I think this is an. It's an interesting response. So, tight crusher, I don't think I've ever seen you before, but welcome to the show. Says, these investor guys are the worst. He quotes everyone told me, and he says that he knows nothing about the cards. He's talking about you, Jason. And so the reason why I'm even bringing these up, and I often wouldn't, because we do expect resources, the guests on this show, to be respected during the show, I don't care what you say about people afterwards and elsewhere, but during the show, we do insist that we're respecting people who are. Who we're bringing on to this show. With that out of the way, I know that Jason's been in the hobby for a very long time. You've been. You've been in the hobby as an operator for decades. So you're not new to the hobby, but you did just sort of admit that, like, you're listening to what everyone was telling you about it. And. But you're also sophisticated. I believe you're sophisticated enough to be able to assess who's telling you, why they're telling you, what they're telling you. So you know how. But how do you respond to comments like this from somebody who says these investor guys are the worst and he knows nothing about the cards? Like, do you know about this card? What did you know, or were you truly just going off of what people were telling you about Macklin Celebrini? Well, first off, I'd like to say what's up, man? To the guy who said that and you know, great to meet you and appreciate your comments. You know, hope you, hope you're having a better day. It, I mean, you, Jeremy, it's obviously, Yu-Gi-Oh I've been around for 35 years. I'm numb to these comments. I'd like to think that I, I've, I know what I'm doing at this point. I, I mean, how do you respond? It's like, I mean, there's, there's a lot that goes into. There's, you know, there's tax reasons for buying certain pieces too, of like, you know, I've sold other pieces and moving money around and I'm, I'm familiar when I say I'm not ex, you know, as familiar with hockey. I'm probably still more familiar with hockey than most. Just, I would say when it comes to other sports, I would consider myself elite is as far as knowledge goes. I do know, you know, the young guns are obviously, you know, extremely popular. Maybe, you know, other than the cup, like, I don't know, obviously value wise, like people are gonna buy the cup, you know, they're gonna buy young guns. So I just looked at this as a grail type card. It's the same way, like I'm not, you know, I'm not a massive soccer fan, but like if a, if a messy grail came available, I'm not gonna not make a move on it because of someone else's opinion of me, you know, not being some Zebra fan to that particular sport. Like it. That's kind of, you know, other, other people's feelings about my collecting slash investing. And, and it really is both. I mean, I would say that I'm, you know, 80 collector, 70 collector, 30 investor. And I've actually talked about this in the past that I kind of break our bit, you know, this hobby or business up into three Topps of people and it's, you know, person one who's strictly a collector, which I think is down to like maybe a few percent of people that actually exist. And then there's the strictly business person, which they're out there, you know, that's probably 10 to 20%. But I think the majority of people in this hobby slash business now are all collectors slash investors. And they're all collecting, but they're also investing and trying to flip to fund their passion. And I feel like that's the majority of the hobby. And, like, for people to frown upon any three of those is just silly. Like, you just have to accept that that's gonna kind of be what you're dealing with. So, like, I mean, I don't know. Like, Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, to me, I mean, I'm numb to all three of them, but, like, I think I fall into the category of collector slash investor. And, like, you know, there's going to be some pieces, you know, I. I bought, for example, tonight. Like, I don't know if I'll ever sell it. I bought a rip or. Sorry, last night, a Ripken rookie jersey photo matched that also happened to be photo matched to his 82 traded card. And to me, that is just so sick because I grew up, you know, chasing Ripken rookies and stuff. And like, you know, that's. I don't know if I'll ever sell that piece, but saying that I paid, I think the end bid was like 300,000. I'm telling you, I would never sell that piece. But if somebody came to me in a year and offered me a million and a half, like, I'm gonna sell that piece even though I don't want to. So, like, does that make me make somebody a bad. It's just such a weird puzzle position for people to stand. You know, I kind of went off on a tangent, but, I mean, I don't know how to answer the guy's question, so. Well, it's okay, Jason. I, I. Sorry, I just. Yu-Gi-Oh I, I appreciate you responding at all because, you know, you didn't come on here to get blasted, but, you know, it's an It. I thought that the question, you know, even though the intention isn't favorable, was still interesting. And, you know, you can also exist and, and, and, and be in each of those sort of archetypes that you just described. I was, I was explaining this to somebody just yesterday, and I said, you know, I collect cards and I invest in cards, and I collect those. Those cards that I'm investing in. I'm collecting them. I am collecting investments in a way, but I'm also collecting cards that are not investments because I don't think I'll ever get my money back for them. And I, you know, they're just, they're just fun cards to have. They don't also offer an investment or opportunity. But if you're any Mickey Mantle card, any Babe Ruth card, any Ken Griffey Jr. Card, these can all be seen as investments if you want to. And I think it Just comes down to what your financial resources are and whether or not, if the money is significant to you, then why not consider it an investment? Why not try and get your money back out of it at the end of the day and maybe even more? It's kind of a bonus that we have in the hobby that we can collect these things and also make money in the long run, possibly depending on what you're buying. It's kind of. It's. It's a bonus to me in the hobby. So collecting your investments is. Is a way you're still collecting, but you're collecting awesome cards that cost significant money to you that you don't want to just see go to zero. I don't want any of my cards to go to zero. If all my cards went to zero, I would be. I'd be upset. I. I have no problem saying that I would be upset if all my cards went to zero, because I've got a lot of capital invested in them. So. Yu-Gi-Oh I'm. I hear you, Jason, but back to the. Back to the Celebrini card, and I mean, being, you know, purchasing or at least trying to purchase that card itself. I want to hear what you're like when you realize you did not one-of-one the card and you saw who did one-of-one the auction to buy the card. What was going through your mind in the moment? Were you disappointed that you didn't get it? Were you. Were you. Did you feel at all that maybe like you ran up the price? Like, was it just you two at the end? And I don't know if you can even know that, but did you feel at all like, you know, maybe I ran up the price on this guy? Were you happy for him? Were you sad for you? What's going through your mind throughout that whole process? Yu-Gi-Oh I figured out the next morning, obviously, who wanted. And we. We chatted about it. We were both like, Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, I. I think there was probably someone else in there in the eight. I. I think if. If I was kind of wet watching the way the bidding went, I think maybe there was somebody else in there around 800. You know, I. Like I said, I got to that point where, like, you know, and I. And this isn't just this auction, this is almost every auction where I kind of set a max, and then, you know, you're having some cocktails or you're just, you know, I'm sure you've been in this spot where you've set a max and, you know, you've gone one or two bids higher. In. In that moment, we all have, you know, so where did I really want to be? Like, you know, 800K. And then, you know, anytime you cross over a million on an item. So, Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, I was struggling. The last. The last bit I hit was kind of like, all right, like, I knew it was. I knew this was it. And. And then I actually kind of dozed off. I joke with him that I said if I didn't fall asleep, sleep, I was going to hit it again. But, like, I. I was pretty much at, like, where I felt, you know, I really wanted to be on that card. So, Yu-Gi-Oh I'm. I'm. I'm Zebra happy where it went. I mean, I. It's. For me, it's good for hockey, too. Like, I have a lot of one-of-one Gretzky opici. Rookies. I think those are extremely undervalued. I think hockey in general, you know, I think it's good for the sport. Like, you know, having a card sell for a million dollars plus is. Is great exposure for not just hockey cards, but just the boom that we're in right now. And, you know, that's. That's where I'm at. I mean, Yu-Gi-Oh it's onto the next card after this. You know, it's like, absolutely. Nope, I hear you, Jason. Gonna go to a couple comments. Well, Tight Crusher is on a roll here. He says it's a collector hobby, not an investor hobby. Well, you're just wrong. Tight Crusher. It. It's neither. It's neither and both. Tight Crusher says wrong mind. No, I'd say you have the wrong mindset. Tight Crusher. Then he says the host is also an investor. I'm an investor, bro. Guys, I've earned my investor bro credentials from a jackass named Tight Crusher. I love it. I love it. I appreciate that. Tight Crusher. But obviously Tight Crusher has never seen the show before, has no familiar familiarity with me. It's always. It's a mu. This happens a lot. This is the danger of being somebody who puts himself out there like I do, like David does, and even like Jason does and everyone else who comes on the show is. Is that somebody could come along and listen to you speak for about three minutes and feel like they know they've got you nailed. They know you. But like Chili Palmer said in Get Shorty, you don't know me. You only think you do, Mr. Tight Pressure. So. And then DM Film says, why do people care if another person is a collector or an investor? I personally don't care how another person does their hobby. I, that's what I say. DM films with one, with one sort of caveat to that, which is just do it honestly and with integrity and do it nicely. That's shoot. I had the wrong. That's all I'm saying. But I'm with you at DM Films. Collect how you want. Who cares how people spend their money? Just do it, do it, do it in a good way. Is it. So go ahead David, please. So hi, I'm David. Nice to meet you. I have a couple of questions. Right. And by the way, this, none of this comes from judgments. I just have, you know, I've never bought a million dollar card before. So it's interesting to me to hear your perspective on things. And you know, you've mentioned, you know, the 52 mantle, you mentioned a lot of Gretzky rookies. You mentioned Messi. Well, celebrating was, you know, he's been in the league for like two years. Right. Is. And you said you've been collecting for a long time like over the last decade have you bought many players have. Who's only been around for a year or two or three and spent this kind of significant kind of money on those cards. Yu-Gi-Oh I'm not sure if you know how much. It's nice, really nice to meet you, by the way. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh I mean I'm a pretty big gay. I have a lot of stuff. I mean, I don't know how else to say. I mean like you know, I, I do this, I love it. You know and like I've been around for a while. I take shots. I mean like I'll give you another one. I mean this is, this was not one exact card, but I mean I've probably spent 4 or 500,000 on Malik Willis cards coming into the football season with just the sole, I mean 100% gamble knowing that my 500,000 or whatever I've invested is either going to go to 50,000 or whatever it goes to if he does well and I'm okay with that. Like it's, it's going to be fun. So to me I agree, like him being in the, like you said in the league for two years, completely aware that this was more of a, more of a gamble play than say, you know, a Jackie Robinson rookie in a higher grade. That is like a, I have plenty of those. I have plenty of S P 500 index fund type cards that I tuck away. And I would say that, you know, my collection and everything is probably 80% slow and steady stuff that I think is safe. I think if the economy crashes tomorrow, I'm not worried about my Jackie Robinson 9. And, you know, Gretzky and Jordan, like, I don't care because I'm just gonna hold them. So I. I guess if anybody new is listening, I wouldn't recommend if you had exactly a million to play with to go take a gamble like this, because it is, you know, it is a gamble, like. Yu-Gi-Oh it is, you know, so I was definitely aware that this was no homerun. This was no lock. This was me wanting a little more exposure to hockey away from Gretzky. I feel like I had already kind of missed the boat on a couple of the other big names, and that was really. Yu-Gi-Oh that was kind of my mindset. I'm just. I was just. I was just in that mood of, like, I'm going to. I want to take a big shot in a hockey card. And the other thing would have been, like, if a Gretzky 10 came available. I have. I mean, I have. I have Opici Wax. So it was. It was just kind of where I was at. Got it. No, I appreciate that, because I didn't know that side of. Of what your mindset is. So, like, is part of this. The R for you is to have these cards and then you have, like, a forever player to root for. You know, forever. Is that part of this rush is now, you know, if you had that card, you'd be watching every celebrity game rooting for him. Is that part of the fun of. Of getting a card like that early on in their career? I think definitely that's that. I think. I think as humans, I think we all want to be right. I think it's. There's an exciting factor of. Of making the right Beckett, where people, you know, there's probably plenty of people out there that think, you know, the winner is an idiot for paying that much. So as much as the money matters, in. In this situation or any situation, when you make a purchase like this, everybody wants to be the person in five years from now, like, that card sells for $10 million to look back and. And be the person who made the right decision on a card like that. I've had plenty of miss, you know, and I. I. I showcase a lot of my misses, too. But I've had some really big wins. And, you know, those. Those are fun, too. I. I like showing off some of my losses just to show, you know, that. That those are definitely, like, you know, those are, you know, likely outcomes in this business as well. Well, but I Think. Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, it's almost like playing fantasy sports. You follow that? I mean, I'll tell you what, if I would have dumped a million, I. I would have been following a lot more closely, you know, going to some, you know, games and. So, Yu-Gi-Oh everything you're saying is accurate with that? Yes. Nice, David. Thanks for the question, Jason. Appreciate you getting into it. This Tight Crusher guy is just ripping. He's just lighting up. He says here, greed is a hell of a drug. Well, so is envy and jealousy and. And kind of hating yourself too. Tight Crusher, you seem like a very. You seem like a person. I. I just want to wish you the best. But that's not going to be here anymore. So we're gonna say goodbye to you permanently. I, I rarely ever ban people permanently. Like, I. There's really no one I can think of that's permanently banned, but Tight Crusher is now going to be permanently banned from this channel. So Tight Crusher, you are gone. Yu-Gi-Oh we're not going to really miss you. Okay, Jason, thanks for popping on, buddy. Sort of for. For a few seconds here. Really just. I'm gonna mute you again. Really just wanted to get your thoughts on. On the. This, what you shared with us. And it's interesting to get in the brain of somebody who is operating at that level. Buying and selling. Buying, selling, investing. Collecting cards in the seven figure category is something that most of us watching, listening and participating on the screen here don't do. So it's really, it's interesting and I wanted to get. That's why I wanted to get you on. And. And the other thing is that Benjamin B. He. He only goes on anonymously. Really cool. The guy who had, who, who owned the Celebrini has been on the. Anyone who wants to see who he was because this guy just came into 1.3 million. You can. You can catch him on the Hockey Cards Gong Show. Great. Friends of mine over there of the Hockey Cards Gong show YouTube channel, check them out and go. Go watch those interviews they did with that guy and. But it's interesting to get the thoughts of the under bidder. Jason. Jason, any next time you're the under bidder on a seven figure card, let me know. Maybe we'll bring you back on and get your thoughts. So thanks for jumping on. Get back to bidding. Good luck with the auction tonight. Thank you, Jason. Yu-Gi-Oh the last one was last night on the mantle, but Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, Yu-Gi-Oh the wife's in bed. If anybody has any other questions, I can hang out for a Couple more minutes, otherwise I'll let you go. Go amongst your show. But always happy to spend time with you, Jeremiah. You know, you're always a straight shooter and you know it's always fun to do these Zebra late night shows. So Yu-Gi-Oh if there's any other questions, I'll answer them. Otherwise you guys can move on to your next topic. But Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, Yu-Gi-Oh no, I appreciate, we're gonna move on. I got, we got more people coming, so we're gonna, we're gonna get on with it. But thank you for joining and we'll get you back on again later down the road, man. Thank you so much. Take care, Jason. All right. Thank you Jason for coming on again. It's not often that we know who the under bidder is on a 1.3 million dollar hockey card. By the way, that was the second most expensive hockey card. Sorry, third most expensive hockey card ever sold. Only behind two Gretzky rookies. And the reason why I fumbled and said second is because that one sold for 1 million 281. The card in second place sold for 1 million 290. Only $9,000 more when we were at 1.3 million. It's not a lot. So. All right, we're gonna bring Joe on. David, here comes Joe. Joe, you ready guys? Please welcome the candidate for the next Hobby Prez election, Mr. Joe Perot. Hello, Joe. What's happening fellas? What's up? Joe Perot, Jeremy. Now if your electricity goes out, we have somebody to hold down the fort for us. So we're all good now. Glad to, glad to see that. Absolutely. Joe, welcome back. Good to see you. Have you been watching, listening to any of this so far? If you have, what do you, what are your opening thoughts? And if you haven't, just let us know about too. No, I was listening. I drove across town from a friend's birthday party. I, I thought David asked a really interesting question regarding, you know, Kunz's forays into more, you know, contemporaneous players vis a vis the Celebrini. You know, in second, third year, the hockey fans can let me know and I think that's just a really interesting point of, of conversation and consideration in so much as like, do we trade off? And I know, you know, David, with your poker background, everything is like comparing options, right. And risk and reward, right. And so like the experience that of, of a player being current and potentially exploding even more. You know, I think about Celebrini in the same way. I think a little bit about like an Early Steph Curry, right. Had and, and of course his cards are more expensive than STEPHS were in 2015 and all that. But I, I think that it's an interesting consideration of like the thrill of someone that's active versus more of the blue chip or as, as Jason was saying, you know, the S P Topps of, of cards that are more blue chippy and not going to have any problems sustaining, you know, the vagaries of the market. So I, I really like that question, David, and I thought Kuntz's answer was spot on and I'd be curious what you guys think. Just, I know Jeremy, you're very reluctant to, to push into a player in who, who is so early on in their career. And I know, at least if memory serves, I'm not sure you have put much into Celebrini or other players, you know, Aunt Edwards or you know, someone in that vein. So I just thought that was a great question, David. Thank you. And you're right, Joe. I don't push into the new players. I just don't have the risk appetite for it because of the prices involved. I, I, I get so much joy collecting other players, not the most modern rookies. The other reason why I don't love collecting any active real, I collect a couple active players I think but the reason I don't love collecting active players is because they switch teams so often nowadays. They never used to switch teams as much as they do nowadays, at least from my, in my memory. And so especially like listen, my, my favorite sports team right now is the Calgary Flames in the, in the National Hockey League. And we are first of all our team's terrible right now. So there's nobody to collect. And what am I going to collect? The, the one rookie, one or one of the one or two rookies that we have. I'm going to spend, you know, money on them that I could be putting into car other cards I'd rather collect and then only to see them either fizzle out on the ice or to see them get traded. Now I'm collecting some random dude on another team. It just, I just don't, I don't get like I love collecting Sidney Crosby. He's still playing but he's 20 plus years into his career. You Joe, are collecting Steph Curry. He's still active but we're talking about guaranteed like first ballot hall of Famers here. We're not talking about guys who are in their first three years of the NHL or the NBA or whatever league it is. And there's you know, anything can happen. It's just, it's, it's not where I, it's not my lane. I'm not happy collecting the flavor of the month, the flavor of the season, the flavor of the product. So just so you're right, Joe, I don't do that. But as Jason said, you know, he's, he's got the, the capital to play with. He can do that. He can go lob a bit of a million bucks on something. It's not going to change his life. I can't say that same thing. I'm going to lob a bit of a bit of a million. That changes my life substantially. So it's a. We're playing in different ends of the pool there, but it's fun hearing from him in that when it comes to that. So. Yu-Gi-Oh it's pretty, it's interesting. David. Yu-Gi-Oh And I mean I, I agree with everything Jeremy said, but also it's the players that are around today. Maybe Shohei is like the only one where his cards have just gone up and gone up and gone up. But I feel like all of almost every other modern player has had major dips during their career. And you know, Trout, right. Even ones that like, were unstoppable for many seasons in a row. And I just think that for me, I would rather let the dust settle, let them retire and then go for those cards. Then maybe it might be a little bit higher, but. And I think Shohei is maybe the. Goes against this rule because he's at. He just keeps going up as he's playing. So maybe I should have bought him two years ago when I thought he was overpriced, but who knows, because almost every sporting athlete has a decrease near the end of their career or gets injured or has a bad season. And I just, I don't love playing the game where a lot of money in a card can decrease in value such significantly. And I just, I want them to be retired. But I do think what, what Jeremy said, Curry and LeBron James are on different levels because they could literally retire tomorrow and their career solidified. Yu-Gi-Oh Can I respond quickly to that and what you said, Jaylee, because I think you and Chase are sort of aligned in that regard. I guess the, the point I was kind of like entertaining was is there a value to being able to experience the risk of a player like that with the potential rewards? Like, is there an experiential cost almost factored in? And I, I think seasoned, experienced collectors who have seen how it usually goes would say that's that's not that a great of an experience to see something like, you know, start here in the. Just, you know, elevator shaft, like a Zion or a jaw or you know, name any, you know, NFL quarterback prospect for the most part. But I, I think that is a draw in our hobby and it's certainly something that, you know, the Flippers Vortex has capitalized on. So it's just an interesting question. I liked that you brought that up with, with Koons, who is such an advanced collector where you know, he's, he's ahead of that game in so much as he's already got, you know, what did he say? A, A Jackie Rookie nine. Like what is that? You know, that's crazy, crazy money. But I, I, so I think because I feel that a little bit in myself, I do like being able to experience vicariously in, you know, whether it's the NFL, the NBA players having strong performances and feeling like I have a little bit in there, a little skin in the game, even though it usually burns me when I do. Can I say so? I, I agree with yu-gi-oh. I think that it just depends on the amount that you're willing to risk. And I think of it this way, right? I think that if like an 80 year old, an 80 year old grandpa buys a $1 lottery ticket every Saturday, okay, and it brings him 15 minutes of like excitement and then goes home and dreams about winning the lottery and has like an hour of like being excited before he does it and there's like two hours of enjoyment for that $1 ticket. Is that $1 so terribly spent even though it's a complete gamble? No. Right. So I do think that there is like ways where you can gamble for fun and just know that you're risking that full amount and as long as it doesn't affect your life, go at it. You know, talking about like the, the gambling, the risking, that kind of thing. It's, it's, it's, it's fun when we think we're onto something that is not, has not yet become a trend or more popular in the hobby. And it almost, it's almost a segue into a topic I wanted to talk about tonight, which was when you sort of trust yourself more than you trust the market, more than you trust. And when I say the market, I mean the. Because the market is really setting the prices. So here's an example. I bought a card on the Fanatics weekly auction about a couple months ago. Now call it two, call it nine, eight or nine weeks ago, maybe 10 weeks ago. And It's a card that I Goldin believe how cheap it was selling for. I. And I think, I think, Joe, you're gonna know this one because you were, you liked it as well without kind of knowing that I was bidding on it. I think you so told me after, like, oh, you know, I didn't know that you were on that card too. But I, as I'm bidding on this card and I ended up buying this card for twelve hundred dollars. And I remember thinking to myself, like, what am I missing here? Why isn't this 3,000, even $6,000? Why am I going to one-of-one this card for? Like, why is my, my. Why am I winning the auctioneer at 1000 bucks plus the buyer's premium for 12? I'm like, this just seems too cheap. So either I'm way ahead of the curve here or I'm completely losing my mind and I'm way off and I'm just seeing something that isn't there. But I realized afterwards, because I bought the card, got it for 1200 bucks, I'll tell you what it is in just a moment. And then I realized as I was out walking later that night and I'm thinking about, I'm like, I think I just, I don't trust the market. I do not trust. Not that I don't like when I'm looking at comps and I'm looking at what cards are selling for. Now, of course, we know not all comps are, are real. Some of them are, are filled with all sorts of manipulation and shilling and that essence of shill. Some of them don't just have the essence, they stink to high heaven of shill. But all putting all that aside, and by the way, Greg, no bystander, no, I don't think anyone has said it yet, which I'm surprised. It's not a bonds card and it wasn't the Randy Moss card either. But, you know, sorry, where was I there? If. Am I. I'll just back up. Am I ahead of this or am I completely missing it? Because I'm thinking to myself, this card should be worth a lot more. So then I'm like, I just, I don't think that I trust how the market is currently evaluating this card considering so many things are so expensive. This should be more. So I bought it and I kind of felt like I'm already, you know, if I'm looking at the value, it's like, man, I would have spent three grand on this car. On this card, I'm already up 1800. I got it for 12. I feel like I've gotten a free $1800 worth of value. And then I started thinking to myself, man, why isn't this car, why isn't this car worth six grand? Like it's that cool. Now I feel like I shouldn't even tell you guys because if I do, I know I'm pumping my card, right? I'm telling you what my card should be worth. So I'm actually apprehensive because we've had some, we've had some bozos in the chat tonight who are going to now call me a. I've already been called an investor, bro, which I'll, I'll take that. That doesn't hurt my feelings. But now I'm, now I'm risking being called a pumper of a card that I just bought. So I don't even going to tell you what the card was. Just out of my own self defense, exquisite Barry Sanders notable name plates card. Which, because I'm like, how is this, like if this. Now I know he's no Michael Jordan, but if that was a Michael Jordan card, that's 35,000 bucks, maybe more, maybe even more right off a name plate and all that. My point of all this is not about what the card is. My point of this whole topic is that I think sometimes we all, we talk about comps, we, we, we look at comps, we, we wonder how someone could possibly ask more. Meanwhile, here I am. So Joe, this is when you take over. Well, I'm just gonna fight for. You gotta do it. All right. He's confiding a little bit, so maybe, maybe we should jump in, David. And, and I think like the moral of the story, for me, the moral of the story is I'd rather leverage my experience in the hobby, which indicates to me that, Yu-Gi-Oh trust yourself, don't be beholden to comps and you know, play a little, have fun. If you see something that's new, David, I don't think you dabble in the new at all whatsoever. But you know, new can also just be a slightly different category, right? It can be, it can be non sports cards or it can be a, a form of not in sports cards that you haven't, you know, introduced yourself to just yet. And all of a sudden it's a new pathway. So I think there's risk obviously everywhere. But I think more and more, and especially if you're not Zebra leveraged already with your assets, you want to be smart. That's kind of the moral of the story. You want to make good decisions. And I agree. And I think that it is fun to have a percentage of the cards that you're buying and that are risky. Does that mean modern? You know, maybe. Or in a lane that you feel like is untapped, which is the way that Jeremy, I think, was looking at it. Right. Or a set or a player or things like that that I know. Joe, you were talking to me today about a couple of players that you think are, are, don't get the hobby, love that they deserve. And I think that's just like a really fun way to kind of be able to buy cards that are a lot less expensive than their peers. Especially when you feel like it just doesn't make sense. Right. You try to put the puzzle together. You're like, the reasons for this to be cheaper are just not reasons that I agree with, and I love that way of thinking. You with us, Jay Lee? I don't know. Am I. Yu-Gi-Oh I'm good right now. You're good. I'm back for now. Okay, thanks, guys. Yu-Gi-Oh just to sum up my point again, I think sometimes you just gotta go with what you believe in, you know, and hopefully you have enough experience that you're not completely flying blind, you know, that you actually do have a reason for it. And maybe it's just your gut feel. So, you know, the, the, the point, the topic that I'm trying to get out there here right now is like, do you trust yourself to be able to pay what you think is fair, not what the market has told you? And do you have enough or do you have any insight or confidence to be able to predict something that might come in the future? Whether because you just want to be ahead of the curve for fun, whether because you want to be ahead of the curve to profit from it. Maybe that's your motivation. Or sometimes you just want to get in before the price goes up, which is what I've always tried to do. It's like, I think this stuff's going to get popular. I want to get in on it before the price goes up and I'm priced out. And I've had the confidence to pay what I've had to pay to get cards. And sometimes it's like, Yu-Gi-Oh I don't have to pay nearly as much as I think this card should be worth or could be worth in this, in today's climate or environment. So again, that's just sort of the topic is, do you have that confidence? Are you or are you totally beholden? Are you a prisoner to the last comp or the last series of comps, or are you willing to kind of set the comp and say, listen, I believe in this card. I'm willing to spend the money on it to, to prove my point. Not just to prove a point, but because you want the card enough to buy it. So I don't know, just a, A very, a not. Well, a poorly articulated topic on my part, but hopefully you guys have Beckett up what I'm trying to say. And, and if. Do either of you have any response to that? Joe the other cool thing about it and why I love sports cards so much is we're not just talking about players, right? In the case of what you mentioned under your breath, which I'm not going to amplify, and yes, I was interested in that exquisite Barry Sanders, is that you're also talking about sets, right? Whether it's a, you know, a 48 leaf, 49 leaf with that kind of pedigree, or an exquisite created by our dear friend Carbon Chung, the architect, which, when you start kind of calibrating player relevance with set relevance, that becomes a really kind of fun process as well. Or process, as you would say. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the sports cards live community. Don't forget to like, subscribe and most of all, keep collecting more great content to come. Sports cars is a lifestyle.