Hobby Gurus + GOAT Arguments + Who Gets to Decide How You Collect?

Hello there. I'm Davin Hiskey, and on my podcast, the Brain Food show, our team, including the great Simon Whistler, our own devices Gilles Messier and fact fiend's Carl Smallwood, serve up fascinating facts and stories that'll blow your mind. From ancient mysteries to scientific curiosities to deep dive history, we deliver knowledge that will help you become the star of Water Cooler Talk the world over. Listen to the Brain Food show wherever you get your podcasts. Sports Cards Live. Yeah. Hobby talk. Sports Cards live, here we come. This show bout to go. Jeremy Lee, get it done. This hobby is a lifestyle, bro. Y' all know. This hobby is a lifestyle, bro. Let's go. Best guests in the industry. You gonna see it tonight. We gonna keep up with this energy of Sports Cars Live. Y' all know. It's a lifestyle, y' all know that we live now. Welcome to another episode of Sports Cars Live with your host, Jeremy Lee. Right? Yeah. And David, you've had some recent. This recent, like you, you know, from you came out of nowhere hobby content wise to being on a lot of different shows and, and a lot of people love hearing you and watching you on shows and you. Have you experienced any early sort of pushback? Tell us about that. How has that impacted you? One person who, anytime I was doing anything, would follow me and say a mean comment every time I did anything. Like literally like one on one show. It doesn't happen a lot, but it was happening and it was bugging me, all right? And as sad as it is, it really was ripping at my. At my heart, even though it makes me feel embarrassed to even say that because you get so many nice things. I agree, though, with what Joe said. You just have to. You can't. Even though you could talk to your friends about it and it's okay to talk to the family about it, but you don't tell the person that did it. You don't let them know that it's getting to you in any way. And you don't fight back because that's really what they want. They want you to go back and forth. And really the thing that puts it in perspective is what kind of person is hating on you, that doesn't know you, that is taking their time to write negative comments. It's the same people that write thumbs down on a video after they watch a free YouTube video of somebody that they watch every week, and they thumbs down it every time. I mean, give me a break, right? Those people. Yeah, one sec. Because you made. You triggered something in my mind. There you know the guy who wrote to you, Steve, he busted in, tells you you have no theme. I'd almost want to hear that. I'd want to see the. The text, because I wonder if it's possible. And I'm asking you to, Steve, is it possible that he was actually telling you that you don't have a theme in your IG page as advice for how you can make your IG page more compelling, more engaging for people? Like, I wonder if is that at all possible with how he came in? Sometimes tone is difficult to understand through a text message. I, you know, I've falsely reacted to messages before because I read a tone that wasn't there or wasn't intended. Is it possible this guy was saying, hey, Steve, I noticed you don't have any theme to your Instagram page. Maybe you'd consider it and you'd have a better pain. Like, maybe this guy's giving away free Instagram hobby advice is that it was like, negative stuff before and then negative stuff after. So I didn't really. I didn't take it that way. And I was trying to be like, well, why do you think of this? Cause I was trying to. Why do you think like this? Please explain. There's no rationale. Help me. Help me, please. There's no rationale, Steve. Just know that some people are just angry and they're upset and there's really no reason for it, and really, that's the way you have to go about it and just kind of try to laugh at it and let it go. And I know it's hard, but that's the problem with social media. You know, it's for everybody. And there's going to be haters at all times. And by the way, out of all, nobody hates Joe. He's the only one that doesn't get it, because how can you hate him? Everyone loves him, but Jeremy has gotten a lot of hate over the years, and you know that he's also the most loved person. So just know it's okay. You have to ignore it, keep your head down, and just try not to let it get to you. Even though I know it does. Absolutely. Yeah. Good. You. You really, you really. You just have. Yeah, it's not, it's not easy to do, but I think over time, well, you develop. You develop defense mechanisms for these sorts of things as the, as the time goes by, if, especially if you're in content or, you know, you're actually like real world famous, like those, like politicians, movie stars, like, these guys get attacked, public athletes, it's non stop attack, non stop. We hear about teams turning off their social media during playoff runs and that so that it doesn't get in their heads because coaches understand that these things can be psychologically impactful on people's moods, brains and, and eventually their production on, on, on the, in the game. So, and so for some people, the game is making hobby content. And so, yeah, you know, I have had my share of, of pushback or hate or whatever over the years, but it's really easy. It's not really easy. It's easier to, to, to take that or to. When you, when you know you're not like a bad person or a scammer or disingenuous, it's easier to take. They just don't know me, you know, you don't know me. You, you think you know me, you don't know me. Which is a great line from the movie Get Shorty. I don't know if, if anybody. Do you remember that when John Travolta, I forget who it is. It wasn't, it wasn't the Tony Soprano character. It was, I think his boss and Get Shorty, where they're like, confer, they're confronting each other and, and Tony and John Travolta, whose name in the movie is Chili Palmer, is the character's name. One of my favorite movie characters of all time. He looks him in the eyes and he goes, he goes, you don't know me. You only think you do. Like that's just so true for all people who have trolls or haters, anything like that. But it, it's really what you think and not, you know, even to another level. It's not just, you know, you don't know me, only think you do, but you also don't know it and you hear it all the time. Be kind. Everyone's fighting a battle. Everyone's got things going on. The real, real world. If you can be rude, you can pick on somebody. I even saw recently an Instagram account who is like kind of a watchdog, but attacks, a lot of attacks a lot of targets on Instagram. And that person put out a post recently saying, I'm gonna not, I'm not going to post about this third party today because something tragic just happened. Their family and even I respect that kind of thing, you know, like, you just don't know what people are going through. So. But, you know, a lot of people don't care. A lot of people, they just smell blood and they attack and they like to kick salt in the wounds. And all that sort of thing. But the other thing that, that you can. It's even you, Steve, with that. It's like people are just, they're, they're. I think it's, I think the terminologies, they're punching up, right? People mostly don't punch down. People mostly punch up. And if you're being punched at, chances are they are punching up, which means that they see you as being more successful or better or whatever it is than them. And that's really all you need to know to just sort of brush it off your shoulder and say, okay, on with being productive. Because there's nothing like being productive as the antidote to any of these losers. And I mean losers. I'm talking about people who lost when they, when they were born. They were dealt a poor hand and, and oh, but here's the thing. A lot of people who are dealt poor hands, they rise above. They find it within them to find a way to be successful. And by that I mean just living a productive life, being good to society, leaving a legacy behind with, with might just be having had been nice to people your whole life. Right. Simple as that. Being kind. But a lot of, A lot, yeah. A lot of these people, it's, it's just too bad so there that, that's me putting. Getting out some frustration on all on those sorts of things without anybody in particular. So who wants to jump in? Because I've been going for a while here now. Well, just one last thing for me, I, I think how we used to look at it, you know, a few years back, Jeremy experiencing, you know, some criticism and I forget who it was who said this, but one of your colleagues, somebody in the YouTube community just said, Jay Lee, just truly it comes with the territory and it's actually a sign of success. Like it, it's. If you look at it as success, like not that we experience it that way, but it's a, it's a sign of success. 1. I think you're right. And somebody made the comment in the chat as well that, you know, it's a sign of. Do I. Gosh, I, I'm meant highlighted here, but I'll go through some con, Steve or Dave, anything to jump in with right now or can I go to. Do you know, David, do you know what's easier to see when I have a friend that has a troll or that has somebody say something negative, it is so easy for us to be like, why do you care with that loser? You know, like, it's so much easier. But when it's about yourself. It hurts so much more that it's hard to actually look past it. But it's funny because if you can really just put yourself outside of it and assume that it's not directed towards you, you would be laughing at that person that's saying those kind of things. So sometimes maybe that's a therapeutic way to get around it, is to kind of think of it that way. No, no. Yeah, yeah, you're right. You're right. Couple comments here. The Chai Town hus. No, that's old Card Fuchsia says trolls live under bridges. So the more people you connect with, the more trolls you will come across on your way. Absolutely. Jim Define says AI can also stand for artificial integrity. Yeah. It can also stand for a holes and imbeciles. It can stand for a lot of things. Absolutely. Jim. Nick Augusta says best way is to not engage. They are to be ignored. Extra sorry. Engage extra special with those who treat you and others nice. So true. And you know, the, the, the thing is of anybody, anybody in hobby content who has trolls and haters and critics and all that, they have more than tenfold that amount of people who are sending them. And I know this from experience and from talking to other content creators who get it. It's like, yeah, you should see all the supportive messages I get. I know I get them like all emails. Dms, it comes in regularly. But like David says, you get that one negative one, it can get to you. But I think after a few years of doing it, you learn to take heed in this advice that people do give. Jeremy from California says, I support Chase no matter how he eats his Oreos. Nicholas Augusta says, love David Chase. Quality content gets. Gets you the love him and others as well. Fresh Prince says, misery loves company. Don't let the haters get you down. Desert Shield Sniper says, if you don't like the content, don't follow. This is how Steve's IG page is and why people follow. Some people just love to critique. Absolutely. Jim says grains of salt and thick skin are powerful social media filtering tools. Absolutely. Alex Bridgeforth says, yep, the Internet is full of trolls. Yep. Desert Shield says social media has created a culture where when you are outspoken, you are given a pat on the back. And that is why there are so many people that want to voice out. But unfortunately not all are productive. Very true. And Mookie Chilson says that brains evolved over thousands of years, never having to deal with criticism or praise from anonymous strangers. Both can be poisonous. Not easy to manage that's the, he's right. Like even being over praised can go to people's head and make you think that you are better or this or that. And you got to keep yourself in check. You got to keep yourself grounded. Humility is a wonderful character trait. I would, I would think the collection firm says you are a great steward of the hobby. J. Lee, straight to the head. It's going straight to my head right there. I appreciate that, David. I appreciate that comment. All right, Steve, anything on. I have more. Another topic that you brought, Steve, that we're gonna go around the horn here, but do you have anything, anything else on that topic, guys? David, just shake your head. If not, and then I'm gonna move on to the next one. Okay? All right, Next topic that Steve and I talked about was this. Actually. I, I, there's still two, three topics I'm gonna, here's what we got. We got aesthetic versus brand hype. We're gonna put this to the chat and, and David and Joe, options for our next topic. Number one was aesthetic versus brand hype. Number two, Mount Rushmore players versus like Mount Rushmore players versus Mount Rushmore hobby players. And then the third one is hobby gurus, which I'm not even sure what that one is about so much with that hobby. Know it alls like it has to be this way. This is the only way. It's all in this box. It cannot be any other way than that way. But so, so expand on that a little bit, Steve. We'll go with hobby gurus. That's the topic we're going to go with for this segment. Have you, have you experienced it? What, what, what? Tell us a bit more about it. Say like the in person autograph topic, I guess. Yeah, yeah. You know, some, there's, there's a group of collectors I guess that would have a, a problem with taking a, especially like maybe a serial number card, taking it and having the athlete or sign it. You know, just, I'm just bringing up a specific thing, but there's always a specific way that you or that guy that, that hit me up on, on Instagram. You know, I guess there's a specific way that you have to collect. You know, you have to do set collections or rainbow collections or can't just collect everything you like. But okay, I hear you. I think I hear what you're getting at even. Like, you know, I'm a, I'm a big eye appeal guy. You know, I talk a lot about it. I, I try not to tell people how to collect, but I think I could be accused of being fitting into that mold. When I get very passionate about the eye appeal thing, I think I do draw the line and many people do about like, that's how I'm doing it. It's not like you have to do it, but, but the same thing with the, like you were saying autograph, getting vintage cards autographed might not be. Might be for you. Doesn't mean it's for everybody. It might not be for me. Doesn't mean it's not for everybody. Some people could do it too. So is your sort of issue with what. What you were calling hobby gurus is that they just think that their way of hobbying is the. Is the way and anyone who doesn't is not quite the same level of hobbyist, I think so. I think we were more expanding on the last topic with the, the hobby guru thing. It was kind of going from somebody that, you know, likes to tell you how, how to, how to social media or how to collect or, you know, or the rules against specific cards or they know the story of. For instance, I, I posted a printing plate from what was. Is potentially from the FLIR bankruptcy. And, you know, there's some people that just put on there that they absolutely know that this is fake. And again, I put on there. I don't know. I don't know. And I'm not saying it's real. Anybody, you know, and, and there is just some people that are absolutely not. I'm like, can you please send me some information, somebody, a contact from flir, anybody, so I can put this to bed and post. Hey, look, this is, this is fake. Because I'll do that. I'm not trying to sell it, you know, even if it is real, I'm keeping it. So just, you know. Yeah, yeah. Are you, Are you. Yeah. I. What I. The words going through my mind are like, if you have, if you're passionate about anything in the hobby, like, even, like, and wherever there's a dichotomy or, you know, two things that are kind of polar to each other. You know, I would, I, and I will strive to be better at this myself. I would rather. When I'm talking about a topic, I am going to strive to present options, not ultimatums. That's kind of, that's kind of a mantra. Options, not ultimatums. Like, because we're all so much like, you know, I just went to. I don't know if they have this restaurant in the, in the U.S. but here in Canada we have a chain of restaurants called Boston Pizza. And they're, it's, it's a very famous chain. There's thousands of locations sort of thing. And, and they're, they have this item on the menu that I love and sometimes I tell people I order it and they're like, oh, yeah, they don't, they haven't even had it. And they're grossed out right away. It's, it's a pierogi pizza. The pierogi pizza, it's got spicy potato, sour cream, bacon, chives. You know, there's no, there's, I guess there's some cheese on there and, but there's no tomato sauce. So it's not really a, you know, a standard pizza. But I love the darn thing. It's, it's delicious and, but some people don't like it. So, you know, it's like, we don't all like the same thing, whether it's cards, whether it's autographs on cards, whether it's eye appeal versus technical grade or whether it's pizza tasting, anything. Cars, clothes, all these different things. So you can. I'm not going to tell you it's the best pizza in the world. It's the, it's the best pizza in all of Canada, you know? No, I'm gonna tell you, hey, I like it. Maybe you do too, but you don't have to like. And if you don't, I don't care. Because you know what? My taste buds don't live in your mouth. They live in my mouth. So, so that's kind of. Is that kind of what you're. What we were talking about, Steve? Is that kind of part of the not we weren't talking about? No, no, because I, I enjoy hearing how other people collect. I never criticize. So it's kind of like because I've, I've taken pieces of how other people collect, I think, you know, you learn something. I always try to at least keep my, you know, I, I may have an opinion. I have. Everybody's got an opinion, but never am I going to say, this is how, you know, like you just said you have an opinion on. I appeal. And, and I might not as much. Mine might be more on, you know, one of one rarity type thing, but teach his own, right? Yeah. And if we're gonna have conversations, you know, whenever, whenever, whenever I'm talking to somebody and they present their opinion as if it's fact, I hear it with, I hear it with my kids in their friend groups right now, you know, where it's, it's like, oh, that, like that sucks or, you know, that restaurant sucks or what. I, I can't even think that that TV show, it sucks. Well, you know, it might, it might suck to you, but you know, it. To say it sucks is a, is a very. Joe, what's the word I'm looking for? It's a very, like, final. Yeah, absolute reduct. Thank you very. Yeah. It's an absolute statement that is just false. It's just false because someone out there doesn't think that which, you know, makes your statement false in that, in that case, in many cases. But, but that's the way things. That's the way, that's the way a lot of people are. Whenever I'm talking to somebody who expresses their opinion as fact, I know that I, I know that I'm not gonna be able to have a conversation, a good productive conversation where I'm gonna come away feeling like I learned something or came away a better person by expanding my mind. I know I'm talking to a closed mind person which is not gonna, you know, provide much for me. So I kind of, you know, just, you know, go through the, go through the, the motions of it because I want to be polite and I still respect them in many cases, but I know that I'm not gonna be able to have a real enlightening type of conversation with, with that kind of. Of people. But that's how, that's how a lot of people are in every area of life that we all come across all the time. So should I do some, a couple, just a couple comments here? Jeff Wills here says, I remember these elites laughing at downtowns and kabooms and look at those investments now. So, Jeff, I, I have a question for Jeff on that. When we say these elites, the first thing that comes to mind is are they elite in your mind or are they elite in their mind? Because, you know, having a lot of money can give people confidence in the way they present themselves. That's just the way thing. You know, with money comes power in many way, in many, you know, true. It's just kind of the way life is. But, but I, I seriously wonder who are these elites that were. That Jeff is talking about there? And are they really elite in their own mind or are they elite in, in the people calling them elite? Because I don't know what that is. I don't know what these elites are like. Are the elites the people that are running the. Is it like the Michael Rubins and the Nat Turners that are truly running the industry or Is it collectors that have multi million dollar collections? Are those the elites and do they see themselves as elite? I'm sure some of them do, but I don't think they all do. Even a guy like Nat Turner, you know, when I see him posting cards, I see him posting cards that are worth like, you know, 15 bucks to, you know, hundreds of thousands. And it doesn't even matter to him what the price is like. So I don't think from a collecting, I don't think from a, a pure like the collector in someone like that. I don't think he's, he sees himself as elite even though he can buy whatever card he wants. Probably. I think it's a mindset thing. Is it your. Is it their mindset or your mindset? So that's just kind of a question I have. Like Steve, you bought, you buy and collect very expensive cards. You don't come across to me as an elite because when I think of that word, it almost has a negative connotation. So yeah, here Daniel Brown says Nat Turner is definitely an elite because he has resources. But I would bet you that Nat Turner feels, I bet you his, his thoughts of himself as a collector are very similar to ours, just at a different price point. I think when he gets a card, he feels the same way that we feel when we get a card that we love as collectors. So I think elite is a weird, it's a weird word to use. And again, who's. Whose mindset is that person being elite? You to David, Steve and Joe, just put up your finger if you want to jump in as I go through a couple more comments here. But please, I welcome you guys jumping in. Desert Shield Sniper says sometimes strong comments could be dead wrong as well. I remember near the end of the Junk Wax era, people used to laugh at me for thinking baseball cards have value. These people are pretty quiet now. Yeah, I mean, I mean even some of our own parents along the way. Card fuchsia says the guru has a positive connotation. We did. The topic that we're talking about here that, you know, had come up in Steve and mine, Mine's meeting earlier in the week was, was around, you know, the term guru. It wasn't around the term like elite, but I think, I think the term guru in our conversation was sort of with like people who are gurus in their own minds. Like you're a guru in your own mind, so you're out there like spreading the, the gospel sort of thing. Jim Sholey wants to know, will Steve still spend such large Amounts as he keeps collecting. Yeah. Where are you at with the types of cards you're buying nowadays, Steve? Like the, are you still buying six figure cards or are you buying $50 cards as well? A little bit of both, actually. I, I wouldn't say buying six figure cards. I've, I've been moving into them, trading into them, so, yeah, I guess same thing, but going after players that I was like, specifically only going for, you know, the Brady's, this and that, not, not for my, I like a lot of things, you know, So I, I, I, I started getting in more into my, my Ravens collection. But of course, like, right away I end up like buying a really big collection. And. I don't know, it's, I'm, every time I do this, man, I, I go a little too far with it. But yes, I love, I love collecting. I'll never stop collecting, buying. And, and, and obviously I gotta sell to, to continue to buy, but. Yeah, I just got an amazing Ray Lewis collection that I'm like super excited about. Yeah. Notice you're wearing that there as well. Yeah, definitely. Okay. Steve, do you wanna. We're already 20 minutes past, I think when we said we were keeping you too, or more. 50 minutes. Pat, you're welcome to stick around. Are you, do you need to go. I know it's later. Where you want to stick around? I'll stick around. Yeah. All right. I think the wife's already passed out, so. All right, good. You stick around. Josh, you ready to come on? We're gonna bring Joe. We're gonna go five way. Please welcome Josh. How are you, my friend? Good, good. Good to see you. Steve. Nice to meet you. David. Hello, Joe. Hello. What jersey do you have on, Steve? Who are you wearing? Ray Lewis. All right. Josh is a Bears fan, so I don't know how you know how that's gonna go, but Roquan Smith is awesome. Josh, you were in the chat here. You've been following along. You are in the world. You are a legal professional. Any comments for Steve on the story? Man, I mean, I represent guys like that all the time, rip people off. So, like, they're all, they're all sociopaths. They don't do anything wrong. Like literally sociopaths. But I hope you can't. He's in Mexico. He's in Mexico. They can, they can get him. They can extradite them and they'll find him. It's a lot of money. So hopefully they get him and he spends, I mean, he's not, I mean, they're Scumbags or sociopaths. Hopefully you get your money back. I'm very sorry that happened to you. Thanks, Josh. I appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, Josh, welcome. I'm going to continue some comments and then we'll. We'll go around the horn here and get some comments, thoughts from everybody. But not Yelia here says having a passionate hobby, philosophy is fine. I. I'm with you. I'm with you. Presented as philosophy, not as. Not as truth. I would, I would encourage. But some cases, maybe they are true. Jeff. Jeff Wills responds, which I'm super glad you did. Jeff says, that's fair. Elites are the ones that tell you what's going to happen or should happen. Not about money. It's more about this is a way the hobby should be. Jeff, thank. Like, that makes so much sense to me. And that's why, you know, ask the question, what do we mean by elite? So it's more about this is the way the hobby should be. Yeah, it's their way of the highway. It's narcissistic behavior as well. BW says elite is a good thing. That term has gotten hammered. Beethoven was elite at music. Right. I mean, Michael Jordan is an elite basketball player or was like, absolutely. It has been bastardized. The term, Jim, define says opinion stated as fact doesn't make it a fact. It's a sales pitch. The truth just is the goal. I love this next sentence. The goal of a productive conversation should be to identify the truths and hopefully learn along the way. Yeah, right. I agreed because oftentimes ego can get in the way of the pursuit of truth in a. In a debate or a conversation and about anything. And then Jeff comes back again, says, I've collected all my life and I'm always learning. Elites believe they already know everything. Yeah, I. I completely agree. Carl from OZ is here still. He says elites legends in their own lunchtime. Who cares? Absolutely. All right, Steve, we had. Okay, we had another topic. Mount Rushmore. Mount Rushmore. I remember we were chatting about it the other day and I. I even saw a comment today on Instagram. Someone was talking about the term goat and the last three letters, like, of all time. And how it just, you know, there is like, even Michael Jordan may not be the goat. I'm not saying that LeBron is, or Kobe is, or Wembanyama is, but the goat, to the technical definition, not even be in college yet. Great. Of all time. So listen, we're not going to get into that because I think that we use the term goat very loosely and we are Able to. Mount Rushmore is something else, though. The Mount Rushmore is based on the mountain, I believe in South Dakota, that many of you Americans may not even have heard of that state, but there is a state called South America, or, sorry, South Dakota in America. That's a tie into earlier on in the episode. And there's four presidential heads carved into the mountain. I've been there. I. I've been saying recently that, you know, in hockey at least, it's hard to do a Mount Rushmore. As time goes by, more generational athletes come along and they threaten certain heads on these Mount Rushmore mountains. And so in the world of hockey, I am lobbying for the excavators to go in and carve in a fifth head for hockey, because I think you have Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe, Bobby Orr, Mario Lemieux and Sidney Crosby. That is my Mount Rushmore for hockey. And I think that those that you can't, you can't put anyone else on there and nobody can be added in hockey, like ever, unless something crazy happens. Even Connor McDavid is not a threat to those first four. Ovechkin, not a threat to those first four. I think Crosby is the guy that's a threat. But who do you take off? You can't take off. Or how Gretzky or Lemieux? You just can't. And I'm sure there are similar arguments in basketball, baseball and football as well, so. But also in the topic of Mount Rushmore, we have the Mount Rushmore of the sport and we have the Mount Rushmore in the hobby. And those are not always the same thing. And that difference between the two is what I call hobby love. Me and many people. Hobby love is that intangible thing you can't really define or even explain in many cases to people. There's a chapter in my book Pops and Comps called hobby Love. Trying to explain it, I think it does a pretty good job. But it's, it's abstract. It's not something you, you can't, you can't go to stats, game summaries, careers, career stats, Wikipedia. Nothing's going to really explain hobby love to you unless you're living in the hobby. So anyway, that. Those are my thoughts on the topic. I know I said a lot there, but Steve, let's go to you. What are. When we talk about Mount Rushmore's, what are you thinking about? I guess I would go to the hobby, just. But personally, I'm more of. On a modern thought process with it. I would specific Rookies. I'm a rookie guy at heart. Even though I collect a lot of other stuff. Shiny patch autosom. But yeah, I personally go to specific big cards that everybody's aware of, like the LeBron Ultimate Collections 2003. That's Logo Man Auto. I would probably put that one up there. I would be. Do you want me to list them or. Oh, no, just the concept. Just talking about the concept. Like. So what you're talking about is you, you're. When we're talking about Mount Rushmore, you're actually trying to think to yourself, what are the four Mount Rushmore cards of the modern era? Is the kind of thing you're. You're thinking about personally. Yeah. And. And I guess, you know, outside of. In multiple sports, I guess we were talking about. We, I think we were talking about is within the sport and then within the hobby as a whole. But yeah, as the, as with a sport. I don't know personally, I'm going, I'm a football guy, so. So let's hear your Mount Rushmore football football players. It doesn't have to be hobby, just who's your mountain Rushmore football? Josh, take note because I want to hear yours as well. After we hear. See who's your Mount Rushmore football? Steve, which is tough because you got quarterbacks and everybody else, like, how do you. That was my next question was, are we talking quarterbacks? Are we talking players? That's why Mount Rushmore is such a difficult thing and it can go in so many different directions. I think you could do Mount Rushmore for quarterbacks, wide receivers, running backs and defensive players as well. You know, I think you could have four different Mount Rushmores in football. You can't really have one. There's. You just really can't, you know, and then there's the Mount Rushmore of all sports. Like people often say, you know, it's, it's, it's Jordan, it's Gretzky, it's Babe Ruth, and it's Muhammad Ali. I saw Muhammad Ali in the comments already here. So, yeah, it's tough to do. Let's go to Josh Adams for a second and get your thoughts. Josh, on, on the world of Mount Rushmores and goats and that kind of thing. So Mount Rushmore football players are like, whatever you want. This is a, this is a free for all. Let's do football first. Because I love that question. So you got Red Grange, you got Walter Payton, you got who's the best linebacker of all time? I mean, I know what you're Gonna say, but so Brian or lacquer. And then Tom Brady. And I would say Joe Montana. Oh, no, wait. No, no, no. I'll take off Montana, put on Sanders. We already have a running back, though, so that's a really good question. Yeah, so what you're doing is you're picking the goat at each position, which is really almost like. Yeah, you know, we need, we need a whole new mountain range and we need to start digging into these mountains for. To be. To a whole bunch. I think we need to. I think we need to be elite here, guys. Let's be hobby elites. And let's, let's, let's just, let's just order the hobby now because our way is the right way to admit that there are many Mount Rushmores. And in football there are three, four. And in hockey there's two. Well, there's three. Forwards, defenseman and goalies. In baseball, there's offense and defense. There's hitters and there's pitchers. Right. In basketball, I mean, there's really just as far I can really think of just. It's five guys on the court. They're all, they're all trying to score. Right. So maybe it's one. Oh, maybe there's a defensive. There's a defensive as well, but sometimes it's the same guy, which doesn't really happen unless you're shotani. Doesn't really happen in other sports. So I like the quarterback one. I like thinking about the quarterback. Mount Rushmore, Brady. Montana's there for me. I don't know how you don't have Peyton Manning on there. And then, I mean, where do you go from there? I mean, there's so many guys after those three. I don't know. Where do you go? I mean, Janna Unitis and Joe Namath. Yeah. Bart Star stays off because he's a Packer. Marino or Elway, Marina Railway. I mean, Brad's, Brad all has four. Bradshaw. There's lots of options. Lots of options. Right. And then, and then wide receivers is. I think it's pretty easy. I mean, I, I don't even know. I think of Jerry Rice and I think of Randy Moss and I think of Fitzgerald, Terrell Owens, Megatron. Yeah, there's a few. There's a few. Joe, what do you think? Football? Whichever one you want. Quarterback. I'm a big Niners fan, so I, I got Rice and Montana up there, but, you know, that's my fan fandom coming through. Obviously, Tom Brady, a name we haven't mentioned, who will probably be on there before all said and done is Patrick Mahomes with the chips and you know, his, his early accomplishments, he'll probably, you know, earn the accolades of the all time greats. But yeah, I, I think it's interesting sport to sport, you're going to have different metrics. It's hard to particularly compare eras. So what I liked about the on ramp to this conversation and this came up in a really cool show that David Chase and Greg did. I think it just dropped yesterday or maybe this morning, but they were sort of sorting through the different changes that have happened in the hierarchy in baseball over the last, I don't know, I think they took a, a 25 year window or something like that in terms of percentages and kind of how the valuations of like Mickey Manel, Jackie Robinson, Babe Ruth have gone through a sort of shuffling and what, what's, what's going on there when none of those players have put up a single, extra home run, stolen base, RBI or, or you know, kind of different positions again. But I, I think that's an interesting kind of the correlation between hobby, fandom, cultural significance and what's happening in the world and, and how our lens might change as opposed to just the pure metrics of statistics which you know, our friend hoj, whenever I talk to this about Ho, she's like well, my way of evaluating and, and it's cool that he has a way. I'm not sure I have a, that I could tell you perfectly what my way of evaluating a goat is. It's more, it's more by feel, but it does, it does probably cross over into the significance of the player to the game. Like for me, Steph Curry, along with being, you know, a Golden State warrior, which is the team I grew up on, but he changed the way that the modern game, basketball is played. So to me that is a pretty significant contribution and, or evolution. He's also someone that's perhaps more relatable to the everyman out there in terms of his stature. So you know, these kind of things I think start to play in, you know, Kobe's tragic passing. I think that played into his lore. I didn't hear a whole lot about Kobe being the best ever or in the conversation for the best ever before he tragically passed away. But he tragically passed away and a lot of people both in the hobby and I think in the sports world kind of anointed him in that upper echelon. So I think there's a lot of considerations I guess is what getting at. And so it's it's hard for me to just off the cuff, rattle off like a Mount Rushmore. You know, you, you said, Steph Curry, obviously you're a Warriors fan. And, and he's awesome. You said, you know, he changed the game. So I started thinking to myself, just as you were speaking, I was like, so, okay, and this is me just, you know, devil's advocate for a moment, change the game. I'm thinking about, so what does changing the game automatically make you? A goat. And then I thought to myself, well, hang on a second. If you're good enough at an aspect of the game that you change it, yeah, you might be. You might be a goat. So I kind of went through that process in my mind thinking, you know, maybe you are. I have to think there are other people who have changed games by doing something, making a contribution, but are not goats. But I think in the, in the case of like, you know, Steph Curry, where now, you know, the NBA is kind of criticized for being just all about three pointers nowadays, is that because of Steph? Did he, did he kind of show the way, hey, look, look. Just like Bob Yor in hockey showed the other players that a defenseman can rush the ice and score goals, doesn't just have their, their job is not. They're allowed to cross the red line, so the center line sort of thing. So I, I just kind of wonder if changing the game makes you a goat or if it's going to be case specific. I think it would be case specific and I think Steph provides a pretty good example of, you know, an elite player changing the game and then flirting with goat status. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the sports cards live community. Don't forget to, like, subscribe and most of all, keep collecting more great content to come. Sports cars is a lifestyle.