How To Run A More Effective Card Promo Than The Disastrous McDonald's Pokemon Card Campaign In Japan; Travis Scott Ruining WWE X Cactus Jack Release?; New Segment Called "Sneaky Plays"

You're listening to Cards to the Moon, a podcast about trading cards from both a collector and investor perspective. We hope you'll stick around for the ride as we take a deep dive into the state of the hobby, share some hot takes, hopefully some useful advice and fun stories along the way. Hey guys, welcome back to Cards to the Moon. This is episode 312, and my name is Clark from 5cardguys.com, and you can also find me at 5cardguys on Instagram, YouTube and on Facebook. Co-hosting with me today is Will and Roy. They're back for their regular monthly podcast session, and you know what that means. We're going to talk WWE, we're going to talk Pokemon cards, but we'll also talk about the hobby in general, because I do have a question later on about cards that are in super high demand whether they're Pokemon or sports cards. But before we get into that, off the top, Will, I want to start with you because the 2025 Topps Chrome WWE Cactus Jack set designed by Travis Scott, the rapper, the artist, that's scheduled to be released August 29th. I don't think it's the first collab between WWE and Travis Scott when it comes to cards, but it's definitely not the first between Travis Scott and Topps because he of course has the Cactus Jack baseball cards, both in 2024 and 2025, which was a Fanatics Fest exclusive, and they're selling for thousands. It's just a couple packs in a box, but they're selling for thousands. So yeah, Will, just want to get your thoughts on this new upcoming set. Do you like this collab? Do you think it'll bring more exposure to WWE cards in general? And do you like the idea of celebrities collaborating with WWE? There's Logan Paul, Jelly Roll, I saw clips with Jelly Roll, and now there's Eyeshow Speed as well, the YouTuber. So yeah, your general thoughts on this whole collaboration and the Cactus Jack set. Yeah, you know, for wrestling fans, Travis Scott is a little bit of a hot button issue, a hot topic issue. He's not very well regarded right now. There's some drama that's happened this past year with The Rock and with Travis Scott coming in and interfering or just being a part of a couple shows, a couple big shows like WrestleMania and Elimination Chamber, or maybe it wasn't Elimination Chamber. But yeah, a little bit like, you know, he came earlier in the year and he walked down with Jey Uso. Remember I showed you guys the videos of Jey Uso yeeting? He starts at the 200 level of a stadium and walks down, and Travis Scott did that once. And everyone was really excited, everyone's really hyped, because it's also in the era of WWE being on Netflix, and it seemed like every week they were just trying to show, hey, look how great we are, we've got these celebrities at our shows. And so anytime they show the celebrities, you kind of understand it's marketing, and sometimes it'd be like a Netflix actor, or like a Netflix show or a movie's about to get released. So you understand it's all kind of that paid promotion kind of thing. And when Travis Scott came down, it was pretty cool. Everyone was like, oh, Travis Scott, that's awesome. And then he got really involved with this whole Rock thing with Cody Rhodes and whatever, and I was going to go into a whole 10-minute thing about the recent history and all that stuff, but I'll save our listeners. Maybe I'll start my own pod where we just kind of talk about the storylines of wrestling. But he was not well regarded getting involved in this storyline. And then there was some drama. Some people are saying like, oh, he was supposed to be heavily featured in a match at SummerSlam, and he wasn't really putting in his best effort to learn some wrestling moves and get involved and all that stuff. And it seems like they pivoted to Jelly Roll. So you mentioned Jelly Roll. I was a little bit like, why is Jelly Roll in a wrestling match? It just came out of nowhere. But when you listen to the podcast with Jelly Roll on Cody Rhodes' podcast, you can tell how much he loves wrestling. And so the fans, after that match, have gotten really behind Jelly Roll. It just goes to show wrestling fans, if you come in and you act too cool, you're not going to play the game. You're not going to act your part, and you're not going to be invested. WWE fans will just chew you out. They'll just forget about you. And that's what's happened with Travis Scott. And it's interesting because they did so many promotional things together. It was expected that he would be a part of WrestleMania and SummerSlam and the big shows. He was supposed to be a downloadable character on WWE 2K25, and they got rid of him. And then there's this whole release that's coming out, I think, in a couple weeks or maybe next week. Next week, yeah. And honestly, I don't know. I think people have really soured on him in the WWE circles. And for me, I never really knew. I'm not part of the culture. I'm too old for that. So I don't really know anything about Travis Scott. But I feel like it might turn into a Ben Baller brand. You know? Wow, okay. You know how Tops Chrome had Ben Baller cards? For a while, everyone's like, oh, these are the best things ever. And I was just like, am I taking crazy pills? What are these? These aren't that good. And I think that's what's going to happen with the Travis Scott cards, too. Interesting. Yeah, no, just the timing of everything is interesting. Yeah, it blew up. It blew up in all their faces. It didn't turn out well. Well, I mean, so yeah, I guess to your point, it depends on who the celebrity is. And I feel like the ones that WWE fans like are, you know, like you said, the celebrities that are actually really huge wrestling fans themselves. And that kind of shines through, right? Yeah. Jelly Roll, for instance, where Travis Scott, he seemed to be getting into it at the beginning, but he was pretty new to the scene. So maybe he just got bored of it himself, you know, and now he's out. I don't know. I've heard drama here and there behind the scenes, but yeah, it's just kind of after the whole John Cena heel turn and that, you know, it just, he kind of disappeared. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even John Cena, he just, so he turned at Elimination Chamber in Toronto, WrestleMania. He won with Travis Scott's help against Cody Rhodes, and then SummerSlam just happened a couple of weeks ago and he lost to Cody Rhodes. And the day before on SmackDown, John Cena was like, you know what, I'm giving up the shtick of being the bad guy. Like I'm just, I'm just going to be a good guy again. Let's all forget about the last couple of months. And I think John Cena's line before SummerSlam was, tomorrow when you come to the show, I'll be the only platinum rapper that's there or whatever. So he's like a little dig. He had a dig at The Rock and he had a dig at Travis Scott. So I think the fans were really happy about that. All right. Well, it'll be interesting to see in terms of cards, how it does, you know, because I feel like WWE, sorry, the Tops baseball collaboration with the Cactus Jack, Travis Scott's brand seems to still be doing well. And maybe it's because it's in limited supply. So I don't know if the WWE collab is limited as well. So that might play a factor in whether the value is there for collectors. And also, I think the interest is limited. Sure. Sure. I don't think people are going to care that much. Is it a buy low opportunity? I think it's just the flippers. The flippers are going to get on it and it's going to be this complete artificial price point. You were just mentioning, Roy, if there was a buy low opportunity. You know, is there a buy low opportunity of Ben Baller cards? It's like, is it not the same thing? I don't know, you know. But I was curious because when I was researching for this episode, whether Pokemon has ever collaborated with celebs. So I sent you guys something a little bit earlier today. And I only found, there might be more, but I only found a Pokemon concert back in 2021 where Post Malone, Katy Perry, and J Balvin all performed. And apparently they received a one of one Pokemon card that features a cartoon version of themselves with a couple of Pokemon characters. Now, I don't know if the pictures of these cards that are circulating online are real. We kind of had this discussion whether it was actually released to them. But that aside, just a question for you, Roy. Do you think Pokemon should collab more with real celebrities or do you think they don't really need to? Yeah, I don't think they need to. They're the number one IP in the world by a large margin. It would be cool because then you could bring in, you know, the same way Topps is doing it. You could bring in new collectors into the space. But I don't think they're worried about that. Their focus is still probably the TCG over anything else. But you could see it in Magic. They're collaborating with maybe not celebrities, but other IPs like SpongeBob, Spider-Man, Final Fantasy. They're putting in serialized cards, which are bringing a huge chase to these sets. Maybe something like that would be pretty cool. That's probably why that Mario Pikachu is so high in demand, right? They did a collaboration with Mario and Pikachu. If they do more cards like that, yeah, it would definitely be pretty cool to see the Van Gogh and those types of arts. But doing it with a celebrity, yeah, that'd be pretty cool. But I don't think it's necessary. Yeah, like you said, I think I saw a post on the Boardroom Instagram account, and the Pokemon IP just blows everything else out of the water right now. It's not even close. Like Disney's in third, and then Pokemon's way up there in first. So no need to. But yeah, I like the collaborations. You mentioned with Magic they had serialized cards. How does that work? Is this kind of a limited edition set? It's obviously not playable, that kind of thing? I've never gotten into Magic, so I don't know the playability. Even Pokemon, I don't know what cards are playable. But the Final Fantasy, they had the serialized, they had a gold Chocobo that you could get, and there's only 77 of them in the world that got printed. Just like a red would be out of five, the gold Chocobo is out of 77. And then even Lord of the Rings, they had that one of one, right? So it's cool to see that in a TCG. I don't think Pokemon will ever kind of do that thing. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. So that's what Magic has done. They're putting in these serialized cards, kind of creating hype, creating more of a chase to buy, I don't know whether it's to buy the sets or just to have something that's kind of limited. But I'm just saying, this just can't be playable. It's like if you get the one of one and you're like, you automatically win the game. Is that how it works? Yeah. I mean, usually what it is, is like they just have the same card. Because there's other Chocobo, traveling Chocobos, there's like a pink, a green, black, and there's like the base. So I think just if you really wanted to play these cards with the serialized, it's just a flex, like a huge flex. Right, right. So there's no advantage just because it's a one of one, it's just whatever the card is. Yeah. Like even Pokemon, I believe the Altards, they have the same playability as the base, but it's just having a nicer looking card. Yeah. It's just shinier. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, imagine someone just takes out a PSA 10 slab and just plays it like that. Imagine your deck is just PSA 10 slabs. Bring your Zion case to the worlds. What is this? Yeah. No, that's interesting. Yeah. That's interesting. We'll see. I think whether it's with or without celebrities, I think there are definitely opportunities for different IPs to come together. Right. VFriends is doing exactly the same thing too. So all these like TCG, non-sports cards, it seems to be the play right now. And I guess if you partner up with the right guys, then it could be a pretty positive synergistic effect. So I guess we'll see. All right. Let's move on to hobby headlines. I'm sure you've heard that recently in Japan, McDonald's had a happy meal, or I think it's a happy set. That's what they call it in Japan. And anyway, they've done a Pokemon card promo. So if you buy a happy meal, you get Pokemon cards. And long story short, the promo, I believe, ended after one day because there are lineups at every McDonald's in Japan because these Pokemon cards were in super high demand. Now, you might have also seen on social media that people were just buying the happy meals and throwing the food away because all they wanted was the card, not the food itself. So my first question, and Roy, you can start first. Are you surprised by this at all? Just like development where it's just been kind of crazy in Japan and people are lining up at McDonald's and all this food waste just for a pack of Pokemon cards? And two, is there a better, more creative way for stores to do special promos with high demand cards? Or is it just better not to do it in such a high demand? Yeah, like I'm not surprised at it, disappointed maybe, but yeah, like if there's money to be made, whether it's like $3 or $5 or a hundred bucks, people are going to line up and do what they need to do to make that money. But yeah, it's kind of sad to see like, you know, there's all these people who can't even eat and then there's just hundreds, if not thousands of bags of just, you know, happy meals on the floor of Japan. But yeah, like, is there a better way? I don't know, like the way they do it in North America, people just buy boxes, they go to the drive-thru or they go into the McDonald's and say, hey, can I just buy a box of those? Like they shouldn't be doing that, they should be distributing them per happy meal, but they do it, they just say, okay, you know, here's 200 bucks or 300 bucks or whatever it costs for the box and they sell them like that. Oh, so they actually do that? They do, because I think you could buy happy meal toys without buying the happy meal. Oh, okay. Interesting. Yeah. Whether it's Pokemon or just a regular happy meal toy. But I think in Japan, you probably had to buy it to get the card. So I don't know, like happy meals are for kids, maybe, you know, have it that way where if you're not under 12 or whatever the age restriction is for a happy meal. You know what I'm going to say? There's a lot of grown men dressed in baby clothes. No, not... Coming in a stroller. Yeah. But... Yeah, there'll just be a huge lineup with, you know, adults with kids. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That might be... Well, at least the kids will eat it, right? That's a whole other topic. Should we be feeding our kids that much McDonald's? Yeah. Yeah, or like, I don't know if there was limits. I think there was a limit, like a five happy meal limit. But you know, you could always get around that, right? So yeah, in terms of distribution, I don't know if there's a better way. But you can't have a lottery because if you want a happy meal, you want a happy meal and you get the card, right? So the poor families who are just trying to buy happy meals, and they can't. Come on, that's wrong. Yeah. No, but okay, let's put this in context, right? The happy meal in Japan was like four bucks, I think it was four bucks. And how much are the Pikachu with the McDonald's burger? That's probably the card that everyone's chasing or everyone wants. Yeah. So in that pack, there's two cards. One is the Pikachu that's guaranteed and the second one is like another card that you can get. Those packs are probably selling now for like 35 to 40 Canadian. At the time, I think the Japanese middlemen, they buy it for like 15 to 20. So yeah, if you have, you take away the five that initially cost. So you're making 10 to 15 bucks just to line up. And if you get five of them, it's like 50 to 75 bucks, right? So that's not worth two, three hours in line. I know, but there's people who either don't work or just have nothing better to do. People can say the same thing about lining up in front of Walmart, right? Yeah, think of all those Walmart scalpers. Or like a GameStop for like the day before or the night before. Yeah, I'm not judging. You know what? McDonald's, they made a big mistake. This was a great marketing opportunity. They should have seen what the demand was going to be like by looking at North American markets and seeing how people are acting and just going crazy and like Costco's and all that kind of stuff. And like, if you know that this promo is going to be hot, you don't sell the food. Like why? Why send the food out to just let people buy the packs on their own? And then you can also tie that in. Like if you want to make everyone feel good, you say, okay, so you buy this happy meal for $5, but if you don't take the food, we will donate that to this shelter or this place that serves like people. Food bank. Yeah. Yeah. It's so easy to just come out with a simple idea that protects everyone and makes everyone feel good about it. And then me as the scalper who's waiting in line, buying my five packs, I'm like, wow, I'm such a good human being. I just fed five people. You feel a little bit better about the horrible things you're doing as a scalper. You know, I don't, I'm not, I'm not against scalpers. Okay. I mean, I'm not against flippers. I don't like the word scalper. So this is more of a derogatory term, but I totally agree with you. That was one of my ideas. Donate food option. You know, you go, if you don't want the happy meal, I don't know if you're ordering mobile or, you know, on one of those kiosks, there should be a check button saying, oh, let's donate the food. And then that money can go to, yeah, a charitable organization. And really the people should have been like, please do not give me five happy meals. I don't want that. Like just give me the packs of cards. Like Roy said, you know, in North America or in Canada, at least you can just buy the toy. I've had to do that tons of times. Cause my kids will get a happy meal each and then one of them gets a toy that they like and the other one doesn't get the toy that they want. And then I have to go back into the McDonald's and be like, oh, can I just buy another toy? You know what though? I actually just went to McDonald's with my two boys and there was a sign on the McDonald's I went to that said, they're not giving out toys unless you buy a happy meal. So this is going counter to what we're suggesting right now. You know? Yeah. Yeah. But you could buy the happy meal. Yeah. Like, uh, yeah. But I mean, but they just ate one. You're going to feed them two? No, you just pay for the happy meal, but you don't take the happy meal. You just take the toy. That's what happened in Japan. Exactly. No, no. I'm saying when you go line up, you tell the people, I'll pay for the happy meal, but do not make the food. Just keep the food. Just give me the pack. These guys are, they're, they're, they're teenagers. Okay. They're just following their manager. I'm like, sorry, sir. I have to make the food. I need to give it to you or you don't. It's protocol. Yeah. In Japanese culture. They're very strict. Yeah. I feel like common sense should prevail in these kinds of situations. No, just like Roy said, in Japan, you don't go against authority, you know, it's Asian culture. Yeah. So authority should have been smarter. It's like Costco. Yeah. We were talking about that. And I was like, he's like, look at all these fights and whatever. I'm like, this is so stupid. Costco should just really just step in and handle this situation. He's like, ah, they don't care. I'm like, I don't know. After like two days of multiple fights showing up on Instagram, it seemed like most Costco's got their act together. I'm like, yeah, we're, we're just doing limits and you know, we're putting it in the shopping cart for you. I'm sure McDonald's could do something similar to that. Okay. I got a couple of more ideas. You tell me if you think it'll work or if you like it. So remember the Minecraft, which wasn't too long ago, they, they had a McDonald's promo and I don't know if you ever saw the McDonald's promo for Minecraft. There are adult happy meals. Did you, do you remember this? Oh no. I don't. So they're $20. Like it's expensive, but you get like a toy, you know, like a limited edition toy, I guess. And they're going like hotcakes. People are willing to pay $20 happy meals, adult happy meals. Right. And, um, they could easily, a pure, a pure business move by McDonald's. If you know that these Pokemon cards are in high demand, I know it's supposed to be for kids, but you just raise the prices and then, you know, you could tie, you could tie that into the donation aspect of it too. Right. Like, okay, this, this is a special Pokemon happy meal, 20 bucks, but we're going to donate $15 to a charitable organization. I wonder. But wouldn't that just drive up the price of the card or the toy? If the only way to get that special toy or card is to pay more than that card is just going to be more. Do you think, so you don't think that'll stop the scalpers from lining up to pay additional 4X what they would normally pay for a regular happy meal? That's, that's what I'm saying. No, because they're going to make their same amount of money or profit, right? If the card goes for five, if the happy meal goes for $5 and the card market is 20, like the local market, and then the overseas market is 35, it's just going to be the same thing. It's just, instead of five, you pay 20 and then you'll make 40 and then the aftermarket is going to be 60. So you think, you think the Pokemon market is that hot, it doesn't matter what, whatever the, okay. Yeah. Okay. No, that can't be. It's got to, it'll be like, it'll be like Walmart and Target and all of them. It's like, they were selling blasters for 20 bucks and then people were buying it and flipping it for 70 bucks and then Walmart and Target were like, hey, we'll just sell it at 60, 70 bucks. We'll just cut out the... But there's a difference. This is a, this is an exclusive Japanese promo that you can only get at McDonald's. It's not just a blaster that you rip. It's like a promo, promotional card. There's, there's promotional cards that are like a hundred bucks. Like the special delivery Charizard was a free card you get by just having a code and they're selling it for $200. Yeah. But at a certain point, like the Pokemon collectors have to be like, well, this just doesn't make sense. Like we can't say like, okay, McDonald's is now selling the Pokemon packs for 300 bucks and then we're all going to pay 400 bucks now. Like at a certain point there's a price where like $300 happy meal collectors are not going to pay. And the scalper, it's just like, you're just choosing. Do you want the scalpers to make the money or do you want McDonald's to make the money? People are paying $25,000 for a Mario Pikachu that you could have got that in a box for 50 bucks. Yeah. But this, this promo is going to be like pop 1 million. And they were just sitting on shelves. Right? Yes. That's another thing. Look at, look at the Van Gogh Pikachu. It's pop 40,000. It's still 1,700 bucks. Yeah. Once this, this, every time you guys are on, we're going to ask the same question. When is the bubble going to pop? Like it's still, it still hasn't popped apparently. I honestly didn't know there were so many Van Gogh fans in the world. I don't think it's Van Gogh fans, it's Pikachu fans. People really like Van Gogh. Oh man. Um, what's the other idea that I had? Yeah. I guess, I guess you already mentioned that you can't do like an EQL kind of thing, right? Like limit, like have a kind of an online draw and if you get it, you can come to McDonald's to pick it up. I guess that just defeats the point of selling Happy Meals to kids. I guess the only other idea that I had is you got to separate it. It just can't be a Happy Meal promo. You know what I mean? It's just going to be a separate McDonald's promo and you know. No, I got it. I got the solution. Okay. Let's hear it. So, you buy a Happy Meal toy. Oh, you buy a Happy Meal and it comes with a little Pikachu toy, like a little figurine. But it also comes with a code card and you can scan that for a chance to win the promo card. Hmm. So, you do get a toy so kids are happy and the toy has no monetary value. Yeah. And then you... No, that's not going to work. Oh, it doesn't work. Because then people will just buy it. You just have to eat the McDonald's Happy Meal in the store and after you're done, you bring a tray and then they give you the card. Eat the whole meal and then you get the card. Yeah, I think that's the best one. You just see people eating 20 Happy Meals. I don't know. Actually, maybe that's not a good idea. It's not healthy for flippers slash scalpers. Yeah, well, generally speaking though, and you already brought it up, Will, the whole Costco thing, that seemed to have fixed itself a little bit. Just having more orderly lines and limiting the products. Is there anything else? Because we've seen it already, people getting into fistfights, people lining up like crazy. Or do you think you just ride the wave and eventually, things will just kind of come back down? Is this one of these cultural phenomenon moments that we're seeing and there's really no quick fix solution? I don't know. I mean, if those Happy Meals came out two years ago when the market wasn't hot, I don't think it would have been like this. For sure. It would probably just be in stock and sold for the three days and then it would have been over. I went to Walmart the other day to buy my daughter her birthday balloons and I saw an old man, he's probably in his 50s or 60s, and he asked one of the workers, hey, excuse me, do you have Pokemon? And I was like, you know. The bubble's still going to pop. It's going to pop. Exactly. That's not a good sign, guys. What was the joke we made last time? If our parents start buying Pokemon cards, you know it's over? So someone's parents did it, so. All right. Where's the van Gogh? I'm going to list it on eBay tonight. Yeah, no, I thought that was pretty crazy. But you know what? If any of our listeners have any good ideas, we'd love to hear them. You could always DM us at 5cardguys or at cardstudentmoon on Instagram and yeah, we'll be happy to read them out if we get any good suggestions. Okay, let's move on to our next segment. And it's a new one. We're calling it Sneaky Plays. All right, so this is, I asked you guys before the show to come up with one or two cards that you think are just really underrated, right? And then these cards you think might pop off in the near future or in the distant future. Just whatever, you know, gut feel you have. I just want to hear. what you think and your reasoning behind it and maybe we'll see how many people agree with you or disagree with you yeah I thought this might be an interesting segment so I'll get the ball rolling just so you know you can kind of get the feel for this new segment and you guys already know that I got the special delivery Charizard right the one where Pikachu is riding the Charizard the Charizard riding Charizard and I thought like what are the two most famous or well-known Pokemon characters it's got to be Pikachu and Charizard right yeah for sure so I'm like any card that has both those two characters and I think I chat GPT'd it to see how many actual cards have Pikachu and Charizard there's a few like it's not a lot but there's a few and when I saw this one the special delivery Charizard it's limited because I believe this one was a promo card when the UK version of the Pokemon Center website was launched and you could have got it during that time so it's limited to the point where there's only a few thousand instead of tens of thousands so I think and it's sealed and I just got one that was sealed for just under 200 bucks Canadian so you're looking at 140 150 US I'm saying that's pretty compared to all the other Pokemon cards that are just skyrocketing in price this seems to be kind of a lower risk and I think we saw what the PSA 10 does it's going for what just over a thousand now right 10 so you're looking 7 8x that's that's my one of my cards sneaky plays what do you guys think yeah so I thought about the same card there's so there's three of them there's special delivery Pikachu Charizard and Bidoof right and the Bidoof being the lowest pop uh and then special delivery Pikachu because I think they were supposed to do the Charizard second after the Bidoof but like the eBay listings went crazy like they're selling like pre-orders for like 1,500 bucks two thousand dollars or something so then they just I think they just launched the Pikachu and then after kind of everything kind of settled down they're like okay we'll launch the Charizard so that was a pretty good one but that one even those ones like went up like crazy in price so today like I think yeah so I have one I graded it and then I had it at one show for like 700 bucks no one bought it and then like the next show I did like I think it was like three weeks later it jumped up to like 1,400 that's crazy yeah so so people are like I guess with more collectors and more people in the hobby they're becoming savvy and they're trying to find these sneaky plays too but my my pick would have been I guess with the world championship that just passed this past weekend in Anaheim those stamp cards I feel like they're still like they're pretty low pop they come in like all these all the different languages in the pack but you know they're pretty yeah they're they're not there's not too many and they're relatively cheap so a few of them I've seen like PSA 8 or 9s and 10s for like four or five hundred bucks for some reason the Japanese ones are the more more expensive ones maybe because they get tens right but overall I feel like that is kind of like a sneaky play they're pretty low pop low price point relatively and they have like a stamp so they're from the world championships each year right and the artwork always changes there's always a Pikachu on it and then the supporting Pokemon around it change every year and the artwork but yeah I think that might that could be a sneaky play long term I feel like as more and more tournaments happen the older sets they'll be like oh yeah I like this art and maybe those ones will pop off but I feel like they're still pretty undervalued and they're low pop because they only distribute it at the worlds or they just keep it low pop I mean like this year they they distribute to everyone on Pokemon Center that's like you and I get both got one right and I think well did you get one as well I have no idea I just okay it doesn't look like when you purchase anything yeah but some of them are stamped what do you mean by that like they're not all it has like on the bottom right corner it's stamped like world championships and then tells you like a year oh okay right right yeah yeah yeah yeah so that's interesting I like that play yeah I don't know I don't know if it'll end up happening but that's one of the plays another would be like look for low pop low gem rate cards like a lot with lots of PSA 9s but like not a lot of PSA 10s so there's one I did like actually recently I recently sold it's the EVGX I think it's like SM233 where he's kind of like chunky and derpy looking so there's only like 200 and something PSA 10s and then I think the gem rate's like 20% or something something low so I bought that card for like I think 800 at the time and I sold it for 3,500. Wow that's crazy that's yeah but that one I just copied the same formula as the Magikarp there's a Magikarp from Paladin Evolver and the same thing low gem rate so lots of PSA 9s but not a lot of PSA 10s and that card was going for like upwards of like 3,000 and everyone's like it doesn't make sense so I was like okay what other cards are out there that are have that similar type of profile so that's the that's the one card I found and I did pretty well on it yeah no that's pretty smart which which is why I don't get the Van Gogh it's the exact opposite so many PSA 10s and few PSA 9s that's why I sold so many of them it's such a low cost but I'm happy I sold you one yes I appreciate that I still have it no I like those plays but it's harder and harder to find those kind of cards right the ones yeah because or they're just they're priced in now at this point because of the Pokemon boom yeah because everyone's doing everyone's looking for something like how can I make money what's you know and they're finding all these different niches within Pokemon and then that's how it skyrockets whether it's being pumped or whether other people are realizing okay this is something that I could probably profit on no do your research well you got one or two I just got a question about the Pokemon stuff like it feels like a lot of these cards they're not ending up in collectors hands they're ending up in just you know they're just cycling through buyers and sellers as they're all trying to make a profit off it and so for sure my my thought was why not just buy every full art card that is you know that's cheap and just sit on it until somebody starts pumping it yeah until you see it starting to get pumped and then you just dump them like like how much is a full art card like of a of a non-valuable card or not like a couple bucks yeah but let's say there's 10,000 cards you need deep pockets to buy every single full like no no not just like buy them raw and just like because they're cheap right a couple bucks just buy a few hundred let's say you 10x on a couple bucks no but with Pokemon cards it's not 10x it's like all of a sudden these cards become hundreds of dollars yeah so that's what happened right now with like this Kingdra this promo card from Shrouded Fables the Kingdra and the Green Ninja like over a span of two days it was like 3x or something it's a $15 card it's like 95 bucks now you just buy anything cheap yeah and you just wait for but that's it like a lot of a lot of that is like market manipulation people are buying up stuff just ride the wave that's not gonna work well it's like Will's just essentially he's essentially saying buy up every penny stocks out there okay well he's saying pretty much buy every card just buy them all okay that's not my sneaky play cross that one off the list i'll erase that one from uh one of my sneaky plays is kind of like what Roy was saying i think PSA 8s are a really great card like a really great grade to target especially if it's like modern stuff i feel like a lot of people who submit their cards for grading they don't have any idea how to prep their cards properly and so you know if you don't see some obvious chipping or like like it's like 90 10 centering i feel like you know it's it's worth the opportunity to buy an 8 and see if you can flip it to a 9 or a 9 and flip it to a 10 especially on those cards like Roy's saying where you see this big discrepancy in price it's like you know you get enough of those you buy up enough of those and you hit once you're up so i think that's i think that's definitely a sneaky play but i mean how sneaky is it i feel like a lot of people are already doing that you know the only only problem is what i think i think it was it's really doable with PSA 9s and trying to bump that to 10 because the multiplier is there PSA 8 you're it's to regrade that you're you're already in the hole again you know i mean it's like because the 8 cards are like oh it's five dollars and you're grading it for 30 and you're hoping to get PSA 9 which has cost like 30 40 bucks so you're breaking even if you're lucky well i think so i guess i think you have to target cards that are a little bit more valuable right that's what i was about to say you don't want to go too low end because then it's just not worth it but sure that makes more sense yes yes yes not all PSA 8s it's not like my all full arts theory not all PSA 8s i think uh this is i i took your sneaky play idea and uh changed it around a little bit not just sneaky plays for us to make but sneaky plays for uh card companies to make i think they need to make some k-pop cards i think i have not stopped singing golden from k-pop demon hunters for the last week i think yeah i think there's a market there i know that there was some black pink um collab with oreo cookies cards right and uh those look great and i feel like there needs to be more of those k-pop is such a force in our in our world so i think there's a sneaky play there but i know that's not what you were asking about i'll give it though i'll give a real but k-pop is they do they do photo cards not trading cards they gotta get into trading cards like yeah yeah uh i mean it's it's not a huge leap right yes and then you think it's different get an autograph serial number there you go yeah exactly um but my one real sneaky play is um it's still wwe panini inserts i've been watching these cards they just keep going up and there's still some cards that are very low um and i've i've been buying because we you know i think we're are we talking about the show today our cards the card show oh no we'll do it next time we'll do it next time yes yeah but uh i was able to sell a bunch of cards so now i'm buying more cards and uh there's definitely this there's definitely this uh soft spot in wwe inserts and uh i'm enjoying it it's been that's been the most profitable part of my uh buying and selling journey over the last year i like that that's pretty cool and espn espn just uh partnered with wwe like wwe is just gonna get bigger and bigger and more in the zeitgeist more in pop culture so i think wwe is going to the moon go go hard go heavy bye bye just like what roy did with pokemon see look where he's now just bought a mansion yeah what are you gonna say well uh roy told me to trust my gut like he trusted like uh with his pokemon gut so i'm gonna try that out see how it turns out i like it he lives next to me so if uh we lose the house we could just bunk up with his family my family could bunk up with his family for a couple a few months yeah he has a few spare rooms now so it's all good um so yeah wwe that's i think that that'll be a good play too everything except the cactus jack apparently yeah don't buy this jack yeah by low he's gonna come back and he's gonna be the fan favorite it's all part of the script you're gonna jump from the high ropes take down cody roads tag team with yeah i don't know jay uso you did have one of the better entry songs you know like he's travis scott so you know he's got a big hit catalog yeah the problem with uh also travis scott a lot of people got sick of that song i think it's called like feign or something like that there's like this really cool beat but they played it at every wrestling show so raw smackdown every ple and like on reddit people are just like i'm so sick of the song i don't want to hear that song and then someone wrote uh that they were at some other event or like at a club or something and the song got played and they got so confused because they're like wait this is where is he he's coming in like who's coming in so his music is super overplayed and they gotta play golden at the next i'll be i'll be at all collaboration k-pop and wrestling i'm in oh man um yeah it's my only other sneaky play this this is a homer bias totally but the toronto blue jays come on and i'm you know what i only got this idea because i was listening to sports card nonsense today. And I haven't been paying attention to their pod for a while, but what got my attention was the title of their, I think it was their most recent episode where it says like, are we seriously talking about the Blue Jays? Nice. And then people are realizing their, you know what, they have the second best record in MLB right now behind the Brewers. And you look at the Vladdy cards, the Bo Bichette cards and so cheap. Bo Bichette is criminally underpriced. So cheap. Yes. So, you know, you don't go for every Jays player, but the top two, Bichette and Vladdy, you know, and you know, they're so cheap that you can probably get a nice color refractor. You know what I mean? Like a more limited edition, limited parallel of some of the rookie autos. So I'm just saying that, that's a Homer pick. That's a bias pick. And I've also been looking at like super fractors, like insert super fractors, right? So I just saw one actually of Vladdy from the 2025 Tops Chrome set. They have an insert set called Fanatical. Oh yeah. I'm watching that card. Yeah. Okay. We're going to bid each other. No, no, I'm not cool for it. So it's all yours. No, but I mean like 750, or best offer. So you could get it for cheaper, but you know, it's a super fracture. It's a one-on-one. It's a nice looking card. And, you know, if any of these players do really well, some of their supers gotta, you know, you can probably make a nice flip. You know, you gotta. Well, what's like, what's the insert market like for like past players? I know like MJ and Kobe is like really high, but like those guys are goats. So like Vladdy won't be a goat. Vladdy will be a goat. He's probably like what? I firmly believe Vladdy will be. Yeah. Baseball? That's a homer right there, man. He's good, but you know, he's not going to be a goat. Like Otani, Judge, those guys are like goat status type names. Vladdy. Who's a, but he's, this is what I mean. This is a sneaky play for that reason, because people haven't really realized how good he is right now. Right? So on base percentage, who's leading the league and on base percentage? Take a guess. Vladdy. No. Aaron Judge. And it's not even close. Second place, Vladdy. Second is Vladdy. Right? Shohei is fifth. Soto is sixth. Like he's Soto, Otani, Judge, they get all the headlines, but Vladdy is up there. It's just my point. You know? So, and you know, come playoffs, you know, if the Jays, you know, go deep, and Vladdy's gotta be a big part of that for the Jays to go deep, you can see a little spike. It could be a nice short-term play too. Right? In terms of flipping. So then Vladdy, if you compare it to like the NBA old timers, he's like a Karl Malone. No. No? No. Who would Vladdy be? Vladdy's gonna, Vladdy's gonna end up being like top 50 all-time player. Yes. Then who's the top 50 all-time player from like MJ's era? And then look at his insert cards. What do they go for? Do they do well? I don't know. I don't know if you can do apples to apples comparison like that. Yeah, you can't do well. Because they don't have good cards back then. That's true too. Anyway. You have to compare Vladdy against his peers. And so like Aaron Judge, I get it, New York market, he's six foot a thousand. He hits lots of bombs, but he hasn't won championships. So if Vladdy gets one, I think it elevates him. I do think Vladdy's a not bad pick. Like he's doing well and his cards are going down instead of going up. So. It's stabilized. It's like, you know, there's a floor now, but yeah. I know I'm trying to sell my Sapphire to get out of all the sports cards I have. You still have it? Yeah, I still have it. It's like a thousand dollars and I had it and now it's like 300, not even. I'm going to low ball, Roy. Go ahead. I'll give it to you cheap. This is a good time. Give me your sealed Pokemon and I'll do trade. All right. Again, to any of our listeners, subscribers, if you have any sneaky plays, please let us know. We'd love to hear it. And we'll monitor like some of our sneaky plays if it actually pans out or not. So yeah. We'll revisit this in a future episode. Let's finish off this episode with our regular weekly segment. We call Pick One. And for any new time or for any new listeners, this is when each of us choose two cards and then we debate which one we would rather invest in or have. Okay. So, Will, do you want to start things off for us? Yep. So I've got two cards that recently sold and they both sold for around $40,000. So you gotta get your, not daily wallet, your big boy wallet out. $40,000 Canadian. So you have the Charizard First Edition Holo PSA 9 has a pop of 728. And then in PSA 10s, there's only 124. So you're talking, yeah. So you're talking about like pop nine, pop 10, it's about a thousand of them. Yep. Charizard PSA 9 versus a Mickey Mantle Tops, 1952 Tops PSA 1. And it's a pop of 373. There's 373 pop ones. And in total, like total graded Mickey Mantle 1952 Tops, there's just under 3,000 of them. So it's super rare because there's only 3,000 that have been graded. And... What's the PSA 1 pop? 373. Okay. But obviously there's like 2,600 graded higher than it. Right, right, right. Yeah. So would you rather have the iconic Charizard First Edition Holo in a PSA 9 or the iconic 1952 Tops Mickey Mantle in a PSA 1? I wanna hear what Roy says cause he snickered when you said Mickey Mantle PSA 1. No, well, it's cause ones are like, there could be a nice one and like a really horrible one. Like whether it's like how vivid the colors are or how crumpled up it is. So... Yeah, so it's not like the ripped up, like this is the floor of PSA 1. Let's say it's like, it looks so good. It could be a PSA 2. I would probably pick the 52 Mantle. Oh wow. Just cause I feel like that's more like an art piece than it is like anything else. That's like, you know, it's like the creme de la creme of baseball cards, right? Mm-hmm. It is. So if it's a nice one, I feel like long-term it would do much better. It would be treated like a piece of art rather than the First Edition Charizard. Cause I don't know. Every time we do these pick ones where we put up a sport and a Pokemon, I always end up picking the sport. I just think it's more value. It's just value-wise, but... And every time I'm shocked. Maybe I'm just thinking the bubble's gonna pop and I feel like sports, I don't know. But yeah, I don't know. I think the Mantle would do better just cause, you know, it's 40 years older. It's like a card that's like so hard to come by. And if it's a nice one, it's half the pop of a PSA 9. Yeah, I don't know. I think I'd go with the Mantle just cause it's more like artwork. You're holding art versus like a... I wouldn't say it's like a high produced card in the Pokemon, the Charizard, but at the same time, I don't know. Something with the 52 Mantle is just so iconic. Wow. I'm still shocked. Yeah. Yeah. You guys always say that. And sometimes I'm just like, why did I pick the sport? Yeah. This is why Roy will never get out of sports cards. He'll just buy another one. Part of me loves sports, but yeah. All right. That's interesting. Cause I'm drinking the Pokemon Kool-Aid. I'm going to Charizard PSA 9. You know, it's rare enough, right? And we talked about this earlier in the show. It's the IP is just growing. It's not, it doesn't seem to be slowing down. Like the Chinese market is really getting into it seems as well. So that's going to be more demand theoretically or hypothetically. And I think, you know, it's kind of under pop control at this point too, right? You're not going to see many more PSA 9s. Definitely not many PSA 10s. So I think with the demand, I'm just expecting it to just continue to grow over time. More people in this world being Pokemon fans versus Mickey Mantle fans. I'm going to choose the Charizard for those reasons. Yeah. So I thought it was an easy choice of picking the Charizard. I did too. I'm like, wow. Because my point that I was trying to make is like, like you were saying, Clark, the growth of, like the amount of fans that there are for Pokemon are way bigger than the amount of fans there are for baseball. And Charizard is like the iconic card and this Mantle is the iconic card of baseball. But there's just going to be more and more and more Pokemon fans moving forward. And yeah, for us, when we look at a 1952 card that feels like such a different generation is so far removed from us. But in 50 years time, the Charizard is going to feel so far from the people who are collecting in 50 years. And they're going to feel like the timeline of the Charizard and the Mantle are like in the same range. Right. They're just going to be like, oh yeah, you know, the 90s. Or the 1900s, you know, these 1900s cards. Yeah. They're not going to feel. Yeah. Because for us, 1999, we were alive, we were kids. So we remember that time. But yeah, I think in the future, this Charizard just keeps going up and maybe baseball dies. I don't know. I'm saying this as baseball is my first love. Like I love baseball. Maybe baseball dies, but people will be playing Pokemon forever. Yeah. I feel like the thing that's going for the Mantle is like the PSA 10 is like a $40 million card, isn't it? I guess so. Yeah. So like, you know, you had that comparison. Like, I don't think any card will be that much for Pokemon. How much is Logan Paul's Charizard? 5 million? Wow. Oh no, the Charizard? No, that was a Pikachu illustrator. Oh, the illustrator. Yeah, that's a one of one. Yes. Even more rare than the Mantle, right? So I think pop three for the Mantle? Is it? Yeah. Yeah, that's like one 10th of the price of... It could go either way. Yeah, no, it's... But yeah, I don't know. Yeah. We're just hypothesizing everything. Yeah. It's a good one though for that reason. I like it. All right, Roy, you got one? Yeah, so we're gonna go $20,000 price range. We have the Conor McDavid Future Watch Auto. It's a BGS 9.5 True Gem Plus with a Beckett Auto 10 versus the Lovebirds, the Latios GX from Teemo, PSA 10. So that also goes for around the same 12,000. I don't know the pop. I should have pulled that up, but... Yeah, those are both around $12,000. The Latios Latios has gone up, it's going up like 2,000 every month. I could have bought it two years ago or whenever it was for 800. It went up to 2,000 and then it dropped back down to like 800. I was like, I'll wait a little bit. It just took off like a rocket. Yeah. And that Latios Latios is PSA 10, you said? Yeah, PSA 10. Is that a Japanese card or is that an English card? No, English. Well, do you wanna go first? Oh yeah, I'm trying to look up the pop for Roy. There's a 2,000 PSA 10s. So that's pretty low for a modern card. Okay, this one- Ombreon's like 12,000 or 20,000 or something like that. This one's super easy for me because it's not a original 151 Pokemon. I don't know Latios or Latias. I could care less about them. And then my son's name is Connor. And so I've been looking for a good Connor, Connor McDavid card. This is probably one of his most iconic ones. So yeah, I like the McDavid one. I think they just need to win, they just need to win the cup once and then it solidifies him forever. Yeah. This one's an easy one too. I'm going Connor McDavid as well. I, you know, I was telling someone recently, I think at the national, I'm like Connor McDavid, I still believe he's undervalued even now, like for the hockey player he is and for the hockey player he will be like in the future, you know, he'll be remembered for, you know, just mind-blowing stats. And I'm sure he'll win one, but yeah, I'm just pretty high on Connor McDavid. And yeah, Latio, I remember wanting that card too, the Latios, Latios, but now it's like, okay. That's one of the cards I feel like it's definitely gonna correct itself. So I'm going with McDavid. And the future watch auto, you said, so it's numbered to 999. So at the very most, there's only 999. Yeah, I'm going the same way, going Connor McDavid. Sports again. Wow. Sports again. Sports again. No, it's just because like, you know, it's hard for me to justify paying when I knew how much I could have paid. But at the same time, yeah, I do feel like, you know, when something goes up that quick, it's been steady. So it's been like about $2,000 each month, but yeah, again, it has to correct, right? Every month we do this podcast. You've said that a lot. How much is the Mario Pikachu now? That's what I would like to know. Is that 20k yet or is it still 15? I don't know. It's so hard to tell because like, whether it's showbidding or like, it just fluctuates like $2,000 up and down. I think last sales were like around $20,000 Canadian. Yes, $15,600 US. $15,600 US. Two days ago. Yeah. Yeah. And like five days ago, I could have got it for $17 Canadian if I had the cash. I couldn't do it. Oh, yeah. But yeah, like, yeah, again, I think it will correct. Maybe not down, I don't think, maybe not lower than 10k, but 8k or something like that. But at the same time, I think it will correct where Conor McDavid, if he continues to be steady the way he is, that it'll be like a blue chip, it'll slowly go up rather than just this rapid growth. So I think it's the safer play. And I just love sports over Pokemon. So McDavid sweep and I'll finish off with my pick one and we'll see if it's a Roy sports sweep as well. Because mine is pitting the Pikachu Scream PSA 10 card, which I wanted. And now it's 2x since I first saw it. So I think I saw it for $3,500 US. I'm like, maybe I'll wait till it goes back under $3,000. Now it's at $7,000 US. It's the same kind of pattern that Roy, you were talking about with the Latias, Latios card and pretty much with every high end Pokemon card these days. And then on the other side, we're going to put up the Bowman anime. It's a subset from, I believe, Bowman, 2024 Bowman baseball, Shohei Otani. And there is an orange parallel number to 25, of course, a PSA 10. So the 25 out of 25, Shohei Otani, Bowman anime, it looks like manga style. And it's the first year they reintroduced the Bowman anime subset. They had one, they had the Bowman, not the anime, but the Bowman kind of like vintage TV subset back in the 50s, 60s. So it's kind of a play off that, but they made it into anime style. But yeah, the Otani, orange 25 of the 2024 Bowman anime set or the Pikachu Scream PSA 10. I believe the pop count for that is what, 4,000. There's 3,500. 3,500. There you go. Thank you. Roy, is it a sports sweep or are you going with the Scream this time? I don't think, no, I think I'll go for the Pikachu just because I'm not, maybe if you picked a different sports card, I would be, I feel like this isn't even drawn by like an anime artist. It's just, they just called it the anime series, but I don't know, he's in a Dodger's uniform. If he was a rookie, maybe it'd be a little different. Like all the sports cards I've been picking are like either rookie cards or something, but this one's just like a insert. Even though it's number 25, I don't know. It's orange, but it doesn't even look orange. It's kind of true. But Otani. So that's why I chose. That's why I chose it. Yeah. I know. Yeah. It's Otani, but I don't know. I feel like I'm better than I am on the, just kind of by any year type guy, but yeah, I don't know. I love the art. Like I'm a pure Pikachu collector. And this is like an exclusive Japanese art, which is like promo that that's like my kryptonite. That's what I chase. So yeah, for me, and I could have bought this card for so cheap, like 300, 400 bucks. Oh geez. Yeah. I feel a little better. But yeah. Yeah. I think I'd go for the screen because yeah, the artwork, it being Pikachu, it being a Japanese promo, being PC-10, it's everything for me. So I picked this over the Otani. All right. Interesting. How about you, Will? I think maybe I'm just allergic to Roy. So I picked the Otani for the very reasons that Roy didn't pick the Otani. I love that it's him in his Dodgers uniform. Not because, actually, no, I hate that it's him in his Dodgers uniform because this is also the year when it could have been him in the Toronto Blue Jays uniform. But the fact that it is the first year Dodgers, it is this reference to an iconic card design. And it's kind of, I don't know if it's like mildly racist, but a Japanese guy on a Japanese anime style card, it just seems more right. It seems to, like it fits in my brain. I actually just love the imagery. I love the picture of it. The Pikachu munch one, it's, I do really like that card. I think it's one of my favorite Pokemon cards. But I think just the fact that it's pop 25, it's a low-colored number, it's an iconic picture. I'm going to go with the Otani. All right. I'm going to have to break the tie. I want that Pikachu Scream card so bad, but I'm going to go with the Otani as well. Pretty much similar reasons that Will just stated a second ago. I like the low pop. Every other Shohei Otani card is too expensive for me. So this is kind of, maybe if I wanted to dish out a little bit of cash, this is something I'd be comfortable buying because it's a low serial number. And with the Pikachu cards, even the Scream, I'm hoping that it corrects itself to a point where I can add it to my collection. I'm trying to get the trifecta of that Pikachu art card. I got the stamp box already. I got the Van Gogh, and this would be perfect for my collection. So one day I hope I'll be able to get one, but I just think it's really expensive right now and I'm hoping that I'll correct. But the Otani, it's kind of like we were saying with Pokemon, when's the bubble going to burst? We kind of say the same thing with Otani cards too. It's just not coming down at all. And so if I'm going to buy an Otani card, I'm going to focus on low numbered cards that should hold its value better than a base auto even. Do you ever see Otani cards going down? I don't think so. No, just my points. His cards will never go down because even if he never played a single game again, his stats, he's already a hall of famer. He's already won. He won the championship. Just imagine if Mike Trout left the Angels and went to a good team, and he won a couple championships. As soon as Shohei won it last year, it's like, it's done. He's cemented. I agree a hundred percent. All right. You know what? You reminded me earlier in the show, we got to revisit where you guys set up at the local show, Vankan. And we got to just kind of go over what we're thinking at the time and if any of those feelings have changed. So we'll do that next month when we do this pod. Speaking of which, Roy, are you doing any more shows coming up? I don't have any shows planned yet. I'll probably sign off for some last minute, but I am going to Vancouver, Vancity, Vancity card show. I think that's like end of September. I think it's like the 18th to 20th, something like that. 18th to 21st, I think. You're setting up or you're just going? I'll be in Vancouver. But yeah, that's the only show I have planned right now. But you know, summer's over. I didn't want to do a lot of shows in the summer because my son would always be like, you're doing another show? I thought we were going to hang out. So I was like, okay, I'm going to stop. I'm not going to do shows in the summer. I'll focus more on the off season. And then we have Expo coming up in November. That's right. So those are the only two I have, you know, booked in now, but okay. So as a vendor. Nothing else. Yeah. Okay. That's perfect. So yeah, we'll revisit the Vaughn Con. I think there's a few things we could talk about and I'll pretty much when that airs, you'll probably be off in Vancouver at that time to do the next show. But anyway, appreciate all our listeners and subscribers and we'll have a brand new episode for you guys next week. Talk to you then. Hey, thanks for listening to Cards to the Moon. We'd really appreciate you subscribing to our podcast wherever you listen to your podcast. And you can also connect with each of us on Instagram at 5cardguys, or you can follow Hyung at Integrity Sports Cards or John at TradeUatRecess. You can also check us out at 5cardguys.com. Thanks again and hope to connect soon.