I Almost Bought the Babe Ruth + Are Comps Overrated? + The “Hobby Fraud” Backlash

This episode is not about high prices, non sports and NBA. Let's do this. The Hangover. What is up? Gentlemen? Welcome to the Hangover here. It's Tuesday, September 1st. It's a brand new month. It's the last month of Q3 for all you worker bees out there. My name is Jeremy Lee. Joshua Adams. David Chase. What's going on, fellas? Welcome to this hangover. Joshua, how are you today, buddy? Look at you. I'm great. It's like a hunt. It's like 100 degrees in Chicago. I love it. It's the last days of summer. Can't get any better than that. We got your coffee, you got your colored shirt. The brick wall. Looking good, Mr. David Chase. What's going on, brother? Oh, nothing much. I mean, I'm. I'm impressed that you like 100 degrees in Chicago, Josh. Like, that sounds like misery to me. Hotter, the humid and hot. You like that? Love it. My favorite type of weather. It's gonna be 40 below zero with 10ft of snow in about 90 days. I'm just gonna enjoy all of what we have right now. Do you not put on the air condition? I do. You do. Okay, so you just like it hot outside? Got it. All right, let's talk about cards. Oh, that was some real intense small talk there, guys, to crack the ice and get things started here. So we had a great episode of Sports Cards Live on Saturday night. We had Matt Shelley from Grail Guard on. We had Leighton Sheldon. We had the regulars, Chris, Josh, David, myself, Joe Perot joined at the end. Joe brought some energy at the end of the show. He was. He was riding high, having a good time. It was great. It was a fun episode. But there's a couple of. Couple of reels that have come up on my Instagram page in the last week or so, and they've been getting a lot of great traction. Well, one's been getting, like, a lot of great traction. The other one's been getting a lot of, like, not so great traction. So we're gonna play both of these and we're gonna just break them down after. And the first one's a lot of fun. The first one was from actually my Fanatics collect weekly show where. Which was. Was a. No, the premiere show. Sorry, it was from the. The premiere. No, Yu-Gi-Oh it was from the premiere show back on. Yu-Gi-Oh back on Thursday with Adam Gray where I was actually bidding on a card or thinking about bidding on a card. So I'll play that video and we'll talk about it, because you'll Notice how I. I think, you know, I was going through some. A process, some emotions. I think a lot of people go through it, too. So let's patch auto Can I say something just before you start that video for a second about that? So with the one thing that was kind of funny about that video is, like, the week leading up to this, like, I told Jeremy, I'm like, man, there's a pretty crazy Ruth cart up for auction. You were like, oh, it's totally on my radar, right? It was on both of our radars for it. I was like, Yu-Gi-Oh I don't have the cash to really be going for it right now. And you were, like, thinking about it. And we did discuss it even before the auction, like, is that something that you're going to want to buy or not buy? And you're like, you're kind of on the fence. Even at that time, right before the auction was about to start, you were like, we'll kind of play it by earnings, right? Yu-Gi-Oh I totally was on the fence. I thought. I loved the card. I thought it was a great card. I didn't know that I would actually go ahead and bid on it or not, but it was certainly on my radar. And. And, Yu-Gi-Oh I. Well, we'll see. We'll see what happens. The thing is, is that what. What I'm about to show you guys, this clip, if you didn't see it on my Instagram already or on sports cards live, YouTube is a short. This clip, it's a. It's not short. It's about two minutes long. So be ready to. But it's kind of funny, but the clips spanned, like, an over an hour. These did not happen back to back. These were. This was stitched together afterwards. This was edited together. So why don't we play it? And. And, Josh, you haven't seen it yet. David, you have. So I'm gonna play it, and then you guys, we can have a discussion about it. So I'm going to hit. I'm going to. As soon as I click right here on it. Well, it'll play. So here we go, guys. This card here was like, my number one potential want for the auction. This 15 to 50. Oh, it's so nice. I'm so tempted to put in a bid and then just, like, figure it out. Oh, my God. I'm still thinking about that Ruth. I can't get it out of my head, but I don't think I'm gonna make the move, guys. I don't think I'm gonna do it. Oh, am I really not gonna bid on the baby Ruth? Oh, my God. Well, okay, let's look at it. I gotta look at Adam. Look at it with me. Okay. The portrait is amazing. The registration is as good as I've ever seen on the card. It's full bodied, like those borders in the top of the bottom. It's all there. It's centered. Well, it's got rounded corners, of course. And the biggest problem is on the back. It's got this missing paper here in the middle, which I think is causing it to come down a couple of grade points, maybe even like 2. This could be a 4 otherwise, if not for this on the back. Oh, man, I gotta ask my buddy Joe what he paid for his. No, it doesn't matter. But I don't think I'm gonna buy it. I don't think I'm gonna. I'm just. I don't think I can do it right now. It's a lot of money. Bid on it. Moloko's telling me to bid on it. You guys are so easy to split. Spend my money. Hey, I get it, I get it. I'm not quick to spend yours too. You're just thinking about this card now. I am just thinking about this card. Okay, I am not gonna bid on the ruth. I'm not bidding on the roof, guys. But thank you, everybody for your encouragement. Probably gonna regret it, but I think that I can find a different copy. Not saying it's gonna be cheaper or anything like that, but I just think that. Oh, man, I'm wondering what's going through my mind too, Jace. Right now. It's just. Just like. Don't want to spend that kind of dough on a card. But if you're buying a card, does it. Oh, I'm talking. I'm talking myself. I'm bidding. I'm putting in a bid. The bid is in. I bid, I bid, I bid, and I'm winning the auction. I bid, I bid. Oh, man. Can't believe I just. I can't believe I just bid on that card. Oh, my God. Oh, I'm outbid. I just got outbid. I just. I. I literally thought I bought the card. I just got outbid. I'm disappointed right now. I just got out. Bid. Now I gotta decide if I'm going again. I might just go for that PSA one that's elsewhere. I'm not bidding again, guys. I'm not bidding again. I'm gonna let it go. I'm. I'm. I, like, it's up to Me. But I'm. I'm not bidding again. Although maybe I will. Maybe I will. I'm not bidding. I'm not bidding on it anymore. My. That is my sure. Am I sure I'm not bidding anymore, guys. I'm out. I'm out on. I'm out on this card. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out this card. That was amazing. All right, so there. There we have it, guys. That. That was. It was funny when I watched that for the first time, because I don't remember so talking about it so much, but then, you know, because it was spread out over an hour, and then you compact it like that. So I know. Josh, you ever gone through that sort of mental process where you're like, you just don't know what you're going to do till the moment you place that bid all the time. It's great. It's the best part of auctions. Never know what's going to happen. You should have bought it, you know, should have got it. And then. And then you get. And then you feel like you. You're the leading bidder. It's the. It's towards the end of the auction, you know, it's going to end any second now. And then you get out, bid and say, oh, no, now I have to go through that whole. That whole process in my head again. Do I bid again and take the lead and. And maybe one-of-one it or. And spend more money, or do I just let it go? Like it was. It was. It was a bit of an emotional roller coaster for me. David. What. What. I mean, you've seen it. What, What. What are your thoughts, buddy? I mean, I was. I was going through the roller coaster with you live. I was. I was on the chat during that time, and I was like. I was pumping Jeremy to go for it just like the rest of the chat. And it was just so funny because he said many times, as you saw, that he is not going to be doing it, but I also know I would be putting things like it. Like, do you have any other green cards that have that same color, knowing that Jerry loves that kind of question or thinks about that kind of thing on these kind of cards. And when you did put in the bid, I mean, I'm telling you, I think myself and everybody else was, like, cheering that, like, you did do it. But then when you got outbid, I. I kind of saw in your face that you had a little bit of relief. Like, I. I think that it just wasn't. You convinced yourself to buy It. But you. I. I saw. Even though you said, do I? Oh, no. I felt like you were relieved when you got outbid. Will you go through that emotion when. When you got outbid? Was that feeling there. It. It. There was a bit of that at the. Because I remember, like, and I was just watching it, looking to try to say, okay, what was my brain telling me in that moment? And I noticed it too, at the beginning. I was like, the relief was, okay, I don't have to cut a check for 18k. That was the relief, you know, but then it turned into like, oh, but I want that card. Like, Yu-Gi-Oh Because I actually, after I was leading the. The. The bidding for a few minutes, I had come to terms that I was going to cut that check and that I owned the Babe Ruth card. I actually thought that I was about to purchase the card. I did. Because the other thing is that, like, the way the timer works on Fanatics, like, it was already into the reds, where it's like, bid needed to extend to next window. And it was ticking down, and I thought, okay, it's. I. I've got it. I'm gonna be buying this card. And I was, like, really happy to add the card to my collection. I got outbid. It's like, oh, my God, someone just put 18k back into my Beckett That's not a bad feeling, know. But then it went straight to, damn it. Like, I. I'm disappointed. I was excited to be purchasing that card. So it was. It was a mix of emotions that was happening. Like, not all at the same time, but very close together from. From relief to disappointment to like, okay, I can buy other cards with 18k now to, no, but I want the Babe Ruth. And then it was like, then at the end, it was disappointment at the end that I. That. Not that I. It wasn't disappointment that I didn't buy the card as much. It was disappointment that I Goldin get it for the. For my. What was my high, My highest bid? It's like, I want it for that price. And then it's like, well, I. And of course, then you think, well, would I even have one-of-one it one-of-one if I came in with the next bid? And that's myself rationalizing and making myself feel better for not winning it, thinking, well, even if I bid again, the guy, the other bidder or bidders could have come over the top again. And now I'm just in a bidding war, and maybe I don't one-of-one it one-of-one And now I'm bumping up the price, and I'M causing the next. I'm causing the comps to go up, and that's going to impact the. The card I eventually do buy. So, you know, a whole bunch of thoughts going through your head at that. Going through my head in that moment. And how about, like, the next morning when you woke up? Because that's the real telling side. Like, were you feeling. Were you annoyed? Were you frustrated that you didn't own that card, or did you have a little relief, or was it just. It was nothing. I was. I was completely indifferent the next morning had I bought the card or not bought the card. I was literally indifferent. And I think. I think I gave. Sent you a message similar to that, and you're like, well, you can't be indifferent on a card like that. Well, no, I. I kind of was because I was happy buying it for my high bid, and I was happy not buying it for any. Any higher than that. I do want the card. I do want to own a copy of that card. I think that was a beautiful copy. So that's kind of where it's at. You know, I'm okay. I have no regrets. Had I bought the card, I wouldn't have any regrets either. I'd be really excited for that mail day. So I just don't get to have that. For me, I would not have that feeling. I'd feel one way or the other is because it's such an expensive card, that's. That's how I'd feel over a $300 card. But over a card that's that much money, I just feel like I'd have more emotion towards it. To me, your indifference means that it wasn't the right card because I think that, you know, I think you'd have a way more sorrow and sadness of one more bid. What could have that happened? You don't feel that way at all. So, you know, I think that's coming. I'm good letting it go. That. That paper loss or whatever that is on the back of the card, I did not love. You know, it's. It wasn't the end of the world. The front was beautiful. But no, I'm okay. I'm okay not. Not buying that card. So. But it was. It was a fun experience. Like, those emotions were. It's all real. Like, I was really going through it in my head throughout that auction. I'm literally, literally doing research on card ladder as I'm streaming the show. It was in the last hour of the show when, you know, we go from, like, having. I don't know, 260 people watching down to like 180. So there weren't as many people watching. And it was also, I think a lot of people were tired. So I could be less engaged with the audience and do my, do my research while I'm looking at the card. But. But Yu-Gi-Oh like Josh, Josh said, should have bought it. It was a beautiful card. It was beautiful. But you know, like, Josh will also tell you it's not a rare card. There's plenty of copies out there. I can find another. I'll find another eventually. So it's. But the one thing David and, and Josh do like, it isn't. It is a card that's on my want list and it is kind of in that top third of my want list sort of thing. So it's not like it's a card that I do want to get. Josh, you can get one literally any day of the week on ebay. So it's about finding the right one. That's the thing. And this one was. It could have been the right one. I'll tell you what, if it was mine, if I bought it, it would have been the right one for me. But I think I can find one that is writer for me at some point down the road. And you know, our buddy Joe Perot, he Beckett up a beautiful copy and at the, at the national and like, that's a copy that I'd be happy to own, you know, in, as an, as a replacement for that one. But you know, he's got it. It's a great card. I'll find one. We'll be card bros and we'll go from there. So what's your thought on like, the auction hype, the craziness of it, like for me, because. And by the way, this maybe isn't the right thing because I think if you didn't have the craziness, you wouldn't have owned that Joe Jackson card because you got caught up in the. From way more than what you were willing to pay at that time. And that's, you know, one of, one of the pillars of your collection. But for me, and maybe I don't know if this is good or bad, I try to not be as emotional and get caught up in these auctions. So, like, I know the highest price I'm going to pay before the auction starts. Right. And what do you think is good or bad about doing it that way? Because I like how you didn't do that for the JoJo. Yu-Gi-Oh Well, first of all, the Joe Jackson card I wanted that more than anything, it was a whole different mindset. Right. I, I spent 10 days studying and researching the card and like I went in depth. So that was a, that was a different situation because I, the amount that I wanted that card dwarfed the amount that I wanted this Babe Ruth. Like I was not missing out. So you said I paid way more than I planned to. I paid about 25% more or so. I think I wanted to go to 100 plus the BP. I went to 125 plus BP. So I spent 30k more than I wanted to, which is huge. It's like I guess 20% more than I was planning. But I, I believed in that card so much. The other thing is that you can't buy that card any day of the week. The Babe Ruth you can. So it was completely a completely different mindset where the. Yu-Gi-Oh the Joe. And keep in mind, and this is, I think a psychology thing for bidding, you know, as you're in a bidding war every time you're out bid, that right there is justification for the value you're about to pay because you know there's support beneath you to. For that card that if you do need to or want to sell it down the road, you can probably dispose of it without getting hurt financially. And that's a good feeling when there's other people bidding. But that, that didn't even really come into play for me. I just really wanted the Joe Jackson, the Babe Ruth. You know, I did not put nearly as much time into that. I maybe spent 15 minutes looking at it before the auction. You know, total if that where the Joe Jackson. I spent close to like 60 hours researching that card. So. And do you ever have a thought where it's a different feeling when you buy a card online where it's going to be a. Compared to at a card show where it's not going to be a comp. Does that ever go through your mind when you're buying a big card like this, knowing that it will be a public number? No. No. I mean, how about you, Josh? No. Do you? No. Yu-Gi-Oh me neither. But I don't know if we should. I don't know if smart people think that way. I, I think, I mean, I don't go go Josh. I mean, I don't care if someone knows what I paid for a car. It doesn't affect, doesn't. It has no effect on me. So, Yu-Gi-Oh I saw a post on Instagram the other day where somebody shared a screenshot from, from an eBay DM. I guess and the buyer or said, or the, the customer said to the seller something in DM said something like, you know, I'll buy this card but can you do it such that I think he said I'll buy it privately from you. I don't want to buy it on ebay because I don't want the comp to show up. So now is that because like I've been embarrassed by overpaying before over a card. Like I've been like, you know, I don't one-of-one I don't, you know, I'm overpaying. I don't really care to let everybody know that I'm overpaying for a card. Yet it's kind of good for the, for the value of your card when, when, when you do overpay because now it's gone higher I guess. Or it's good for other people to own the card, I guess maybe it's not good for you. It's good for the, the owners of that card. But if you are under paying for a card I can definitely see why you wouldn't want to going into the comp, you know that database. So. But I never really, I don't really, I just buy them. I don't, I don't really think about that. Yu-Gi-Oh so, so one way that I'm thinking about that is like right now with these vintage non sports cards, I'm seeing them sell on Facebook for like crazy things that are going way because it hasn't caught up on comps on like ebay and Heritage and things like that yet. So like I'm just seeing that those prices are at such high levels that people that maybe don't look at Facebook might not be going to shows. And if they're looking at their specific grade where there hasn't been one that is sold, it's going to really kind of mess up where they think the value should be versus really what the market is. It's just kind of an interesting thing when things are going up in such a fast way that comps haven't caught up on public settings. You know what I'm saying for sure that there are these, those are like the invisible comps that are out there on, on social media that don't get the pr, all the private deals that don't get reported. There is, that's, you know, it's, it's the, the, it's the disjointedness of our hobby overall why we are, why this hobby is not the stock market, why it is not reliable and comps are very incomplete and. And they can either do you favors or they can hurt you. It depends how you're approaching them and what you know about the rest of the market and then what from what you're talking about, David, in terms of like Facebook Marketplace and other private. Private deal platforms. Big arbitrage opportunities for people who know how to play one marketplace against another. And I'm sure people are doing that, probably making a good living doing it. You know, buy on one, sell something that's. But that's the history of the world. Buy from. Buy from John to sell to Joe or whatever. Whatever it goes, you know. You know. So it's too much work for me. Yu-Gi-Oh Just. Yu-Gi-Oh I don't do it either, Josh. I mean, you know, not that way. I'll buy. I'll buy a collection and sell it at a card show. But. But Yu-Gi-Oh not for. Not for me either. Anything like David, any other thoughts on the comp thing though? Because it's interesting. Yu-Gi-Oh I mean it's just. It's just odd that we take a long time sometimes when there's been an increase significantly on cards in the. In the very. And just because there's so many level right now when you look at a comp, you're really looking at the grade in that comp and that's a lot of cards that need to sell publicly for that to catch up for I make it up like a card like the Batman rookie card that's red hot right now. And if you look at just the normal price and I'm making up a grade of three, there might have not been one that has sold for six months at an auction. But they are like on Facebook there. There's like 20 of them selling a day it seems like on Facebook. So there's just. Is a lot more to the story when you are looking at cards that have gone up in a crazy, crazy way that's not for most of the market and that's probably not for the healthy part of the market. But for when there's like a fury of. Of cards, the comps do not tell you very much. You know, the comps and are an incomplete data set that are out there in the public domain. But all the deals going down on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube message boards, card shows LCS's private people who just know each other, Craigslist, Kijiji up here in Canada. These things are not recorded. They're not making it to card ladder or any of the other comp database sets out there. And so you. We are we are running incomplete. The only reason comps I think are as important are, are as celebrated today as they are, is literally for the flipper and the repack culture. Because those guys pay on a percent of comp. They need a comp and they are, they are fly. They're only, it's like they're their own ecosystem within the overall marketplace ecosystems. Because if all they're running off of are the, the comps that are coming through say card ladder. And card ladder does a great job of capturing all the public comps, but they don't cover and they can't cover all the invisible comps. Also any sale on comp C doesn't make it into card ladder. So these flippers and repack buyers, they're buying 80, 85, 90, 95% of comp. But the, but those comps may or may not reflect what's actually going on in the market. So like another thing about comps that I think is very interesting is these comps are like one of ones and I just think it like knowledge is so powerful and these savvy collectors that are kind of veterans that, that go through this, you know, there's a lot of people that if you have like a one of one or even a modern card that hasn't sold over the last five years, they have no idea how to comp it. Right. And I think that that's a lane that some people have where they know that they could get a margin of that card because they look at like different parts. Right. If this card sold for this, then that would mean that this card over here sells for more and it's so detailed and like to figure out what a one of one should sell for is like way above what I can do because I don't specialize in things like that. I just think it's very interesting to hear how people figure out pricing when the comp is incomplete. I think that that's really cool. Well and all, I think all comps are incomplete. Like the comp itself is, is a data point. It is a record of a sale that happened between buyer and seller on whatever platform at whatever time. It doesn't mean the next card is going to sell for that. I think comps are overvalued by the hobby altogether. They're given more credence I think than they're worth. Especially on the non commodity cards, regular selling cards, comps are very helpful, they're much more useful. But when you look at this flipper repack culture, all they have those guys are their Businesses are run on the comp. They give, they give the public comp data set a hundred percent value. A hundred percent like credence for what they are telling you. That is the revolution. It's like that is the stock market to them. And they, they don't need to, I guess, but they don't consider the vast, the, the breadth of other transactions going on elsewhere. And that's a, that's a, a blind spot that they have. But it doesn't matter because they're selling based on those comps as well. So they're, they're, they're, they're, they are their own sort of transactional system that lives within the overall ecosystem and they don't need to worry about what's going on in the, in the invisible comp data set world. They only need to worry about what's selling on ebay, Fanatics and the big auction houses. They don't, they don't need to know what's happening elsewhere because when they sell, when they, when they do a repack product and they say, hey, we're selling you this, this card is one of the big hits and it just sold on the recent comp is twelve hundred dollars. Well, I mean that comp might be five hundred under a transaction happened the next day or over. It just depends on, you know, what the card is and where else it's selling and for how much. So Yu-Gi-Oh it's the comps. Comps are, they're very important, they're helpful, but they're not the whole story. They're probably half the story, sort of. My thoughts on that, Josh. Any, any thoughts on, on it? I try to overthink this stuff too much. If I like a card and I can afford it, I buy it kind of run out. So, so let me ask you though, about that, Josh. So like you know you, I know you. You've spoke about the 48 Leaf, Kel, that I have. Yu-Gi-Oh right. Yu-Gi-Oh But like let's say you had a lots of money came into you recently. Okay. And if that card was, which I know you want very badly, and if that card, if you had a hundred thousand dollars in the bank that was burning a hole in your Beckett and you would pay $20,000 for that card. No, no, I would definitely look, see what it's like. I, I do like a cursor review on ebay and see what they've sold for in the past few weeks or a few months. I mean the car doesn't sell that often, right? I mean, so see what the so comps do then matter then for. Well, Yu-Gi-Oh but I'm not gonna like, I'm not gonna like, you know do do this kind of exercise about like private sales. Well, this, well that I'm like here, here's what they sold for. If it's, if it's in that ballpark, I'll buy it. Like. But how about if it hasn't sold for three years, then how do you figure that out? You do a that. I mean that's easy, right? Because I mean here's the thing too. People forget like they no one has any critical thinking skills anymore outside of like looking at nothing against car letter. Color is great, but if it's not in car letter, no one knows what to do. And you know, people existed before card ladder. Right. And you would see I don't know here. Kel hasn't sold in three years. Who is a similar card to Kelly in the set? I would say Slaughter. I would say in terms of rarity, Dobie and Kel are pretty close. Dolby goes for a premium. But then I would look historically, percentage wise, what is Cal? Solid Adobe. Slaughter and Fleer Those are I think and Newhouser, those are tough ones. And I would do what. Those are comparable players in terms of population and rarity. And I would make. And I would say here's what I think is worth based on these other sales. Sell to me if you want. People are afraid of. People want to squeeze every single cent out of everything. That's the problem too. And they're afraid of missing out on a couple bucks. And that's, that's a whole other story that we can get into. Sorry, what are you gonna say? No, I mean I love that. But that's, that's why I think that this hobby, when you become a veteran and be able to do this for as long as Josh has, that's why you have such an advantage. Be able to be able to take that calcar that hasn't sold and to be able to look at a new house or and look at prices versus that. And I think that's how some people end up buying one of ones. Right? Yu-Gi-Oh Is they look at a very comparable card and a different thing. And I just think that that's why there's kind of like. I wish there's a better word for it, but kind of like a dummy tax. Right. For people that are newer in the hobby because it takes a long time to be able to figure that out. Right? Yu-Gi-Oh Onto how to, how to comp a card that is not so readily available in that kind of way. And that's why there's a big margin that's possible with some people to. To be able to figure that out. I can't tell how many times at the national this year alone, a guy had a card. How much you want for it? I don't know. There are no comps. I'm like, well, all right, well, what's your number? I don't know. I'm like, all right, well, I'm not gonna do your work for you. But it's like they're just afraid of doing anything without someone else telling them what it's worth and that. I think that's a real pro. That's a problem and is going to create this knowledge gap. And then it's a. I think it's a negative for the hobby. Like, do some critical thinking, Josh. I. I don't think it's a problem. Here's why. Like, I. Here's why. Because it just shows. It just shows how little they. How little confidence they have in their inventory and what they're doing if they. If they. If they're not willing to put a price on a card. So, Yu-Gi-Oh I. I'm. When I say it's not a problem like it is, it is, but it's only a problem for them and for you. If you really want to buy the car and they one-of-one sell it, it could buy cards. Yu-Gi-Oh right. So. So get this. I remember going into the LCS here. This goes back 12, 13 years ago, probably. I walk in, he's got a. It's a new release product. This is a guy who's had a shop in. Where I. In Calgary here since 03, probably. And this is probably in 2012. 13 new product comes out. He's got a great card from the product in his showcase. No price on. I go, hey, how much for the. How much for the card? He's like. He go. He's like, oh, the Beckett hasn't come out yet. I'm like, okay, okay, great. I haven't. I haven't had lunch yet either, but how much is the card? He's like, well, no, I can't. I gotta see what Beckett says. I'm like, you. You. Oh, the words I'm holding back right now would make. I'd have to click all the. All the explicit boxes on YouTube. But, like, like, you. What do you mean? You're not like, you. You have to wait for someone in Texas to tell you what your card is worth here in Canada. And It's a hockey card, and you're in Canada and you're in lcs and you can't put a price on the card. Yep. I, I lost so much respect for his ability to run an LCS that any, to be fair, he never had a good singles game, and he never did. He sold the card, he sold the store. And I go into that store and they've actually finally got singles, and they know how, they know how to run a store there with. They know how to run a singles game. But he could, he Goldin price it until Beckett told him that. Don't you realize that Beckett reporting on prices that guys like you are selling the cards for? It was so frustrating. So, Josh, you just said people don't know what to do until the comp. Until there's a comp on card ladder. Exactly. Like, it reminded me of that, of that story. And I, Yu-Gi-Oh people are handicapped because they just, it's, it's very frustrating now. That's why when I see somebody, like, put a card on ebay, the first copy of a card from a new release, and they put a buy it now price on it, I'm like, good on you. Like, even if it's a little bit strong, like, at least you're pricing your card. You're helping to set the market. I, I respect a dealer, a vendor, a flipper who's willing to put a price on a card that has no comps. I think that's, I think, bold. And I don't know. I, I, I respect, I respect that versus having to wait. It's so, it's embarrassing on behalf of the, I'm embarrassed for the hobby when I see that happen. Josh, people have traded in their critical thinking for land. Right? They're, they're, they're, they're outsourcing. They're. Outsourcing is the word. Thank you. They're outsourcing their, their analytical skills to go and do some maybe triangulation to see what this card should sell for. And what did the hot rookie sell for last year of this particular card, of this parallel? You know, if it's a really rare vintage card, what are other Jackies or babes or Joe Jackson selling for in similar grade with similar population? Yu-Gi-Oh you might have to do some work. But you know what? If you're gonna, if you're gonna, like, if you're gonna bring a card to a card show and put it in your showcase, or you're an LCS and put it in your showcase, but wait for the price guide to arrive to tell you what to price it for. That was a different time. Don't put it in the showcase. I'm not saying now. I have not no problem with people having cards on display in their showcase that says not for sale because they're showing off a part of their collection. I know people generally don't like that. I'm okay with that. If you want to, if you want to show off a bit of your collection, you're not going to price it, that's fine. To bring more attention to you, that's. That's fine. David doesn't like it. I mean, it doesn't, that doesn't bother me. I'm disappointed if I want to buy the card and I can't buy it. But it's a card show. They're called card shows. You can show car, you can show some cards if you want. And they, that can be a strategy that can help you in, in other ways as well. So I don't have an issue with that. As long as you have a not for sale sign, don't wait, get, don't get a customer all excited. They might be able to buy this card. Or only to start a discussion after waiting for 10 minutes after you stop talking to other people to find out that it's not for sale. Oh, it's not for sale. Well, then why do you have it out here? Why, why is it here? You know, whatever you say, whatever you want, but at least have a not for sale sign on the card or beside it so that you're not going to disappoint people. But that's a, that's another, another issue. Josh, Jeremy, I have to take off. I enjoyed my short time here. Thank you very much, guys. I will watch this. You only say that to Jeremy. You don't say that to me too. Both of you. David, I will miss you both. I will see you on Saturday. See you, Josh. Good to see you. So one-of-one those are some of my thoughts. David. I get it. Can I say something about that not for sale thing? Sure. It annoys me when I'm at card shows, which is a place to buy and I can't buy the card. I don't like seeing the auction houses where I can't buy the card. I don't like seeing when I'm at a card show I want to buy. And I would much rather you put a price on there. That's the. Take the this card away from me. Kind of priced the same way as you. Jeremy, when you're showing On Instagram, right? Like everything is for sale. All right? And if it's not, don't put it out. And if you need to charge double to be able to get there, that's fine. That can at least lead to a discussion. Oh really? How are you coming up with that dollar amount? You know, if you really love that card, maybe you can even discuss that with the dealer. And if it's a one of one and you don't know how to price it, price it high, right? I would much rather you do that. I don't want to see cards that are not for sale at a card show. That's just me. Save that for your Instagram. When it comes to auction houses, you know that's never gonna stop. So you just, you know, just because, just because you don't want to see them and you can't buy them, like too bad. David Chase. Like, you know, I separate auction houses. How about all other things besides people can do what they want. It's, it's like this comes back to me, just me taking the, it's the same thing with grading low end 10 cent cards and you know, and clogging up the grading channel. I believe people can grade whatever card they want. Nobody can tell me what to grade or what not to grade. If I want to grade my 10 cent base cards because I want to see them in slabs, I have as much right to the to PSA's capacities. You do with your 20. If I'm willing to pay their fee, I can grade whatever card I want. I understand people say people are grading cards that shouldn't be graded. Sure, that's fine. But who are you to tell somebody else what to get graded? So it's a similar. No, I'm, I'm not saying I, I, I think we should have millions of 15 cent cards in slabs like number one. It's not good for the environment. But at the same time, who are we to tell somebody else that they can't use, use that, that service. It's a similar thing. I'm paying my rent at a card show. I can put whatever I want at my table within the card shows rules. And if I'm putting some cards out there aren't for sale, just because you can't buy them doesn't mean it's wrong. It just means you don't like it. Some people love to see. I once at the Toronto Expo, you see these cards right over here, all these cards here, when they were brand new to the hobby, I went to the show. I, I've always had six showcases at the Expo. I had one showcase filled with those cards. With those cards over there. Filled up the whole showcase. Why? Because they were awesome. They were these jump. It was the first time we'd seen these jumbo patches in the hobby. And this goes back to like, this is like 2009 or 10 when I did this. And people would say, Yu-Gi-Oh one guy's, you know, I'll take that one story. They're not for sale. They're just on display. And, and oh, okay, cool. But what came of that was several people saw them and all I did was like, drive up competition for myself because there's a couple guys in particular who became like Zebra collectors of big cards like that. And they lo, they, they said it. I got in, I started collecting these things. Now it's my favorite part of my collection ever since seeing Jeremy Lee set up at the Toronto Expo back in whatever, 2010 or whatever. So I'm just like, that's just an example where sometimes it's a card show. If you've got six showcases, maybe you're selling cards and five of them and one of them you're not. Another thing I did once, this wasn't as long ago. This was. This was like maybe a year and a half ago, I took up because I didn't, I didn't have much inventory to sell at the show and I had a booth. So I brought some stuff for my personal collection just to have on display, to bring attention, to bring cards to the booth because people would see them and I had them. I had the cards laid out and I put big prices on them. David, the ones you're talking about, because I didn't want to sell them. So I put big prices to scare people off. And that kind of wasn't a good thing either because now people think that, well, if those prices aren't good, all of his prices are going to be crazy. I don't want to put that out there into the, into the public as well. And now no one's coming. Another. They're talking. They're another. But you see, you see the cards that that guy had? Oh, he. Everything's overpriced, you know, and especially if it's a car they really want. Even if they understand that you don't want to sell it, you're there to display it, they're still going to go trash talk you somewhere else because they're frustrated they Goldin buy the card. Maybe it's not trash talk, but they're still going to talk about it. So you, by putting on excessive prices, you can do yourself damage. So what did I do? I actually took them out of the showcase. I just said, you know what? I'm not even putting them on display because I didn't want to have no prices on them because I believe cards should be priced and I also didn't want to have excessive prices. So while I hear this is me saying I agree with you, David, I pulled them all together. So I'm not. Listen, I don't want to do that unless it's something where it's like a gallery of like cards like this that are unique and different you don't see every day. But if you're just putting out your mantles and your Hanks and your Bill Russell's or you know, whatever for, for huge prices, I wouldn't do that. But I don't think other. I'm not just because I wouldn't do it anymore. I still think people have the right to do it if they want to. Even if you. And even if you don't like, even if David Chase and many others don't like it. And I agree. Everybody has the right to do anything they want. That's not. I completely agree with that. You could go to the card show and not sell any cards and just show off your collection to, to everybody that's there. You have the right to do that. But it's still to me a little annoying. But that doesn't mean I like every part. Right. You're also able to not put prices on your cards in a showcase. You have every right to do that. But it still annoys me. Right. Some of the things I just don't love that are parts of a card show. But I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying I'm probably not going to be your buyer if that were to happen. I appreciate those comments for sure. Yu-Gi-Oh The word. You know, I think that if you're setting up a card show, you should have your cards price and the price tag should be on the front because I don't want to wait for you to stop talking to someone else so you can flip the card over to tell me how much it is or that there's no price but you know them off by heart. And I gotta wait for you to stop talking to him so I can ask you how much you're. You're wasting my time. By not pricing your cards, you are really telling the customers that you don't respect them because you. And not that you don't respect them. You don't respect their time because it's going to take so much longer to get a deal done. Every card, I got to wait for you to look it up or turn it over. And if you're talking to somebody else and then you have a busy booth, I'm just, I. I can't wait. I might have bought that. If there was a price on. I might. I'll take that for 150 bucks. And then they'll stop talking to the guy they're talking to because they're going to make a sale, and then they can go back and talk to that guy about the ball game from last night or whatever else they're talking about. So I believe cards should be priced. Now, there's one exception that I'm willing to grant to myself and other people, which is sometimes you just don't have time to price everything before you go to a card show. And then you'll hear people say, Yu-Gi-Oh they're just being lazy. It's so easy to throw stones at people when you are framing what their life looks like based on what your life looks like. Just because you have six hours of free time every day doesn't mean that I do or the. Or that vendor does. So if a vendor, If I go to a vendor's booth and they have no. They have no. Or few price tags on their cards, you know, I will often ask, why aren't. Why don't you have prices on them? And if they say, because I know what they're worth. Or, or if they say that the prices change too often, which is a typical one right now. Or if they say, I just didn't have time. We were on vacation. The car show came up on me quickly. I had to catch up at work. I'm going to cut you some slack. Why? Because it's half. That's happened to me, too, where I go to a card show and I just. The weeks leading up, I literally could not spend the time I would have needed to price everything. I'll price as much as I can. My point is that I'm willing to cut some slack if it's literally not out of laziness, out of a lack of time to do it. And I know some people say, well, if you have time to be at a card show, you have to know if you have time to be at a card show, you have time to price the cards. But Jeremy Lee, David Chase, or Joe Schmo might actually have a pretty busy life. And if. Then you say, well, then don't go to the card show. Well, again, I come back to my, my rights argument. I have every right to be here. I paid, I paid to be here. If you don't want to deal with me because I don't have price on my card, keep on walking. Like, you know, it goes both ways. I will say no price. I'm going to keep on walking. They'll say, you don't you want to keep on walking? Keep on walking. What, what do they care? You know? So, Yu-Gi-Oh these are the little things that, that bother us, but we just sort of need to settle down a bit sometimes. You're totally right. We do need to settle down about a lot of things that one-of-one us. But how about this? How about when somebody who is a huge national dealer for vintage, they price 99 of their cards, but a couple of very expensive cards, they don't put the price on. Right. They have a 52 mantle and a seven. Right. Because they want to have a discussion with that person who's seriously interested in it. Do you give leeway on that? Oh, heck yes, I do. I certainly do. Listen, there's no stead. Yu-Gi-Oh There's no universal rule to this. And like I said, you know, I believe it's situational. I'm, I'm okay with that. The other reason is, you know, I mean, all cards, any card in the showcase is worth a lot of money these days. But there's also the security issue and, you know, that sort of thing. Like, it's when I, when I put those cards on my showcases at high prices, the ones I did not want to sell, I felt really weird. Anytime a, a patron came to my booth and was looking in there and looking and seeing the price tags, and then, you know, they look at the price and then they look at who's there, who's behind the counter that has these cards at these prices, I felt weird. I felt icky. It's like, Yu-Gi-Oh I don't, I don't want people looking and seeing big prices. And then looking at me now, it's like, okay, are they scoping me out? Are they. You know, it's a security issue as well as, well as, like, I don't want to be bragging. I always feel like by putting big cards with huge price tag tags, you're almost. But, but you're. Listen, it's merchandise. That's where the hobby is. So maybe I got to just not worry about that so much. But still, it's a weird feeling. You know why I think some people do Things like that is because they're wanting to buy cards and they think that those kind of cards will attract the same kind of cards. Right. So maybe they don't want to sell their 51 Bowman mantle, but if you have one, maybe it will. Somebody will bring theirs to the show and they might stop off at your booth. Right, exactly. That's what I said before. That's why what I kept saying before was you want to put cards in your booth to attract more cards to your booth. If you have big cards. Oh, you like this stuff? I sure do. What do you got? And they show you if you have, if you have some big cards from whatever genre and someone's walking around, they got a little stick satchel and it's filled, not page, but they have a little satchel, it's filled with, with really nice cards. If they see that you have similar caliber cards, they're more willing to show you what they have. And you never know what can come from that. At the, at the minimum you get to see some cool cards. Worst case or best case scenario, you might get to do a deal or buy something from them sort of thing. So, and, and you have to think if you, if you're selling a 52 mantle, there's a much less of a chance you're going to be showing that to somebody that has all 70s cards or modern cards than somebody that has a 52 mantle at their table. So Yu-Gi-Oh all right, you've convinced me. Sometimes it's okay to not. But I, I do not want to convince you that it is, that it is not annoying. I get annoyed by it too, but I get more annoyed by the cards that have prices on the back or they're for sale with no prices. But I understand that if the guy didn't have time, I don't get, I'm not like mad at the guy. I'm just like, you know, well, it's inconvenient and I'm going to move on. So Yu-Gi-Oh when I'm going to front row card show Saturday, right. I'm actually going with Mike Petty on Saturday. That's going to be a good time. And there are two big vintage dealers and I know all the vintage dealers that are there. There's probably going to be 20 of them in the show and there are two of them that never price their cards on front and that they're usually high prices and they might not be high on everything, but whenever I have asked for pricing, it's been high. I don't even stop at those two Tables. Yu-Gi-Oh I hear you. Yu-Gi-Oh well, you know, you know how to save your time because you don't have the time. Time is of the essence when you're at these card shows. Competition is fierce now to buy the best cards, especially the stuff that you and I like. The low grade, high I appeal stuff. We are far from alone. So Yu-Gi-Oh Okay, we had, we have one other reel. This one will bring some more great conversation for us here, David. But before we do, guys, I one-of-one I one-of-one make an announcement. This episode of the Hangover is brought to you by the 2005 Upper Deck the Cup one-of-one Gretzky base card out of 249 in a PSA 10 holder. This is a card that happens to be on my desk right now. I re scanned it last night so I can put it up on my personal Instagram account. And just for fun, I did check the population on it for anyone who's interested because I'm interested. It's my card. This card has a population of a overall pop. Yu-Gi-Oh was that right? No, that must be a different. Oh, that's the gold version out of 25. This card has an overall pot. Only 12 copies have ever been graded by PSA which is pretty low. So not a commodity card. Although there's 249 made and it's a pop 3 in a PSA 10. I love this card. This episode of of the Hangover is brought to you by one-of-one Gretzky, Upper Deck the Cup. Yu-Gi-Oh So nice of them to sponsor us. I love that. Oh I know. Isn't that, isn't that incredible? I also want to thank Grail Guard. Grail Guard is a new partner of the Sports Card clubhouse. As you may know, I had Matt Shelley, co founder Grail Guard on Sports Cards live on this past Saturday. We had a great, he's a great collector. He collects a lot the way you and I do. David. Grailguard is a white glove courier service. If you're buying a high grade, a high end card, selling a high end card and you don't want to risk the postal service, these guys will pick it up in hand in buy a human and they and that person will deliver it to your buyer and it's a, it's a great service. Grailguard Yu-Gi-Oh please check it out. Support them. They're great new supporters of the Sports Cards clubhouse. All of us on there and Sports Cards live as well. And check out the sports cards live episode on Saturday. Max, a great guy. A lot of you might know him as well. Big Max. What's what's his Instagram again? Or his, his Instagram and his. And his. You and his ebay store Big Macs card sports cards or something like that? Something like that. I'll tell you as, as you're looking this up right now. But Mac is great. I've known him from a bunch of different shows from before and it's big underscore Max, underscore cardbox. But he's crazy Yu-Gi-Oh appeal and I've bought cards from him. We've competed like we. I've like tried to get cards that I've seen them from him. I'm like, how dare you try to get that card for me. And I've even shown him cards that I was like, I'm passing on it, they're a little too expensive. And I showed him a couple of cards at the last west coast card show and he went and bought them. So Yu-Gi-Oh he's a great guy. He's got a great one. So he came him and Joe as partner at Grailguard, they came to the the Ball Bar dinner on Friday night at, at Shoeless Joe's of the national and. And Mac had his cards with him. Bro, I was drooling, I was drooling and wanting to buy some and of course, you know, I did and I, you know, but my gosh, he's got, he's got a great Yu-Gi-Oh great collection. And, and one more thing about Grailguard really quick is that the couriers that they use are all like police officers, first responders, like first professional athletes, like people who are actually, you know, kind of, I guess you could say trustworthy in that way. And they're all vetted so it's a cool service and hoping to see them help bring some security and safety to some of the higher end transactions in the hobby. So thanks to Grail guard David. Should we do this other. Should we take a look at this other. Oh, I also. And again, I also want to thank one-of-one Gretzky for sponsoring this episode. Thank you. This is a beautiful card. Hey, it's the first year of the cup. It is. And what's the difference between that card and the gold card? Because for somebody that it just instead of silver, it's gold. That's. There's no like difference in numbers or anything like that. Yu-Gi-Oh the Gold's out of 25. This is the simple base card out of 249. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh A base card is out of 249. Well, Yu-Gi-Oh this is a base card. This is in, in the high in Exquisite. In the cup. The base cards are numbered. If you look. If you look at my. My PC on Instagram, my PC account on Instagram, I posted. I posted another card. It was the first time base cards were serial numbered. It's. It's another Gretzky that I have. It's from the 20012 Upper Deck Premiere Collection. And that one's out of 299. That was the first time in hockey, I believe, that base cards were serially numbered, which is really cool because growing up in the 80s, putting together sets, like knowing that only 299 people could own a complete set of that premiere from that year or 249 could own a complete set of this stuff. It's a lot different than back going to school in the 80s when like 249 people. My school could have the complete set. Never mind the whole world. I. I remember when it first came out, I was. I was blown away the ser. That base cards were serially numbered. And I loved it. I loved it. So, Yu-Gi-Oh just to find just some fun stuff there. So I. I take that same thing with leaf short print set. How there's like less than 200. I'm like, how many people want to collect that set? Especially old school collectors and how such a small amount of people. But that also like makes me think about with you showing that Gretzky would. Gretzky. Do you have more Gretzky cards than any other player in your collection? Great question, David. I think my biggest the. The. Yu-Gi-Oh Gretzky, Crosby and Dale Howard Chuck are probably the players I have the most cards of in my whole collection. Those three guys and Howard Chuck actually very close to my heart. There's his rookie card right there, a painting of it. And Gretzky and Crosby to me are the modern day goats. I mean, you know, they didn't play at the same time, but they're the Crosby to me is the best player since Mario Lemieux. Lemieux the best player since Gretzky. And so, Yu-Gi-Oh I love collecting Crosby. I think it's blue chip. It's. one-of-one Yu-Gi-Oh Cool. All right, so let's have a look at this other clip. This one. Okay, so first of all, on the Babe Ruth do I my bidding clip, the con got a ton of comments on that. It looks like there's, well, 40, so not too bad. 40 comments on that. But all like really fun comments from people basically saying, you know, I am you. I was one. Or like, you know, you speak for all of us. Or oh my God, I've been through that, too. Or like, we've all been through it. Like, everybody. It resonated with a lot of people. This next clip was actually from last week's or the week before his episode of the Hangover is. Where is where. This is where this next clip comes from. It's you and me talking. It's not in its full context, but in this, this clip, which has 144 comments and, like, I think over 60,000 views right now. So just for, for. Just for. How many views does the Ruth have? Wait, compare. Let's check the roof card. The ruth clip has 7070 views on Instagram and over 1500 on YouTube. This next one has 52.7 thousand views on Instagram and on YouTube. I forget, but it's, you know, under a thousand. But this one, my gosh, I got hammered in the. In the comments for this. And the reason I got hammered is my fault. I did not do a good enough job explaining what I. What I meant by using the term hobby fraud. And it's understandable that people got a little perturbed. Just, you know, excited. They got excited to. And the funny thing is, so many people who've never seen me before jump, like, they're like referring to me as, like, this guy because they don't know who I am, right? This guy, this guy, this, this guy, that. So I'll play this one and just for fun, and then we can talk a bit about it. David. So let me just share the screen here. It's this one right here. It says fraud. And I did a good job of putting fraud on the preview thumbnail there. The word fraud. Fraud. Right. So let me play this for you guys. We'll see what we think here. Here, here we go. Is it fraud if you crack and resubmit a card three times, that's a nine, and you eventually get it to a ten. And if the buyer ends up asking the person who did that, has this been cracked and resubmitted? Do you think that that's fraud in your mind? I think that that that's. It is hobby fraud. I would call it hobby fraud, not fraud. These are two different things. In my mind. Yes. That to me is hobby fraud. Lying about that. So don't do that. Tell people. Because otherwise, Yu-Gi-Oh you're committing hobby fraud, which is different than fraud. One has lawyers and regulation involved, the other one doesn't. Is it. So it's part of the conversation. Yu-Gi-Oh part of the conversation. It did. So what? When I. When I use the term hobby fraud. I was not. I'm not saying that this is fraud in the context of law, you know, where you are breaking a law. And the reason I'm saying that right now is, is because. And I said in the clip, I said, it's different. Real fraud has lawyers and regulation and, you know, you're actually breaking a law. Whereas hobby fraud is just a con. It's just a term I'm using to describe the situation. And I called it that, which was, you know, and I'm probably wrong. That's probably not the right term for it. But some people in the comments were just like, it's called lying. I'm like, Yu-Gi-Oh okay, it's just called lying. You know, hobby fraud is. Was me trying to make a point that just don't do it, guys. It's. It's not something that the hobby needs or wants. And you're so the whole thing. Again, like you said, you. You posed the question and even your question and I answered it, People in the comments didn't focus on the second part of your question, which a lot of people were focusing in on. Well, they were tons of comms like, it's fraud by PSA for giving one. One grade one day and a different grade, you know, the next time the card submitted. A lot of people consider that to be fraud, but hey, PSA will tell you we are just giving you an opinion. And yes, the grader's opinion might change day to day. So is that fraud? I don't think it's fraud by PSA to do it there to. To that. That their grading is inconsistent. I just think it's inconsistent. And the reason why some of those comments commenters think it's fraud is because, you know, they just don't want to. Actually, I don't know why. I don't know why they think it's fraud for PSA to do that. Maybe they think they're trying to extract more money out of the hobby by encouraging resubmissions and that sort of thing. But I was not. I was not saying that it was fraud, I. E. You could get arrested or I. E, you know, there's a claim to be made against you. I was l. I was labeling the activity of when someone says to you, hey, I see you've got a beautiful Topps, Hank Aaron in a PSA3 here. Just curious then, Mr. Vendor, did you ever resubmit this to get graded again or what? Did you what? You know, how many times did you send this card in for grading or did you give this card to NBA to see if they'd sticker it yet. And if, let's say you, the vendor had submitted in for grading again, let's say you bought it as a two and you resubmitted it, it came back a three, are you obligated to tell the purchaser if they ask you this was your question to ask you what happened? And I said, Yu-Gi-Oh if you don't tell them that that's hobby fraud. Really to. Instead, if I would have just said that's hobby lying, I don't think I would have been, you know, I don't think people would have jumped on, Jumped down my throat so much in the comments there, but I didn't. I used the word fraud and that's what brought it up. So. Well, well, fraud can be something that's like deceptive, right? Or something that, that you're not telling the whole complete part of the story. And I know when we discussed that on your show, we were talking about if you had a flood in your house, right. It has to be disclosed when you end up selling the house to the next person. So if, and I understand not just giving that information for no reason. Right. Oh, I've submitted this to PSA seven times. No one's going to do that. Right. But I was just trying to kind of play around with that, which they cut up my question also to make it a little confusing, I think. But it really was. Do we have an obligation if the person asks to tell the truth of what you know about a card like that? That was the question. And that's when you kind of went through like it is kind of a little bit fraudulent to know something and keep it from the buyer when they're asking you directly of the subject. I understand you saying it that way, but it's a little bit of a longer subject than you could put in that 45 seconds, but 60,000 views. Jeremy, are you telling me all publicity is good publicity? Is that what you're. I, I mean, I, Yu-Gi-Oh like it was, it was, it was pretty funny. Like. Yu-Gi-Oh some of these comments are, are. Yu-Gi-Oh don't read them. You're gonna feel good about yourself. Just let that one. Oh no, I'm, I'm, I'm totally good with it. Like, you know, and the thing is that any, anybody in the comments who really came at me, they, they obviously don't know me. They haven't seen me before, so it's not the end of the world. I do see one here. The guy writes, hahaha. What? Call psa. Don't call me. There are Zebra fractures being cracked and resubbed. Check the pop report for a card out of 10. Why is there a population of 14? Doesn't even apply to the situation. You know, like, people were totally one guy. Right? It is not fraud, no matter how you want to look at it. Okay, you know, fair enough. One guy says yes against the grading company. Well, they're. They're taking. They're thinking that you're saying fraud is cracking resubmit, which is not what you're. That's not what this is. That's not what we were talking about. Exactly. But. But it's understandable how they can kind of get confused in that. But that's the thing. I, I agree with them. Cracking and resubmitting is not fraud. It was the discussion of, if it's asked, are you okay to lie about that? Is that like an ethical thing to do? That's exactly what it was. And then my, My misstep was saying that. Well, not my, My misstep was. It wasn't even my misstep. The fact is, these clips, I'm. I'm outsourcing the clips, right? I get a clip a day sent to me from a guy who watches my stuff and sends me a clip, and he did it. And I like, okay, that one looks good. Let's. Let's put it out there. And then this is what happened. So I should have. I should have. I could have done a better job of screening it or whatever, expanding it to include more, but. And at the end of the day, I. It was a lot of fun reading these comments and kind of chuckling because I'm like, you know, they're just. They're. They're coming. They're coming at me or the situation without really knowing what I was thinking and saying, which is. Was my bad. So, you know, lesson learned. Lesson learned. So here. Here's kind of my question about, about that, because it. It's in. It kind of brings an interesting point to this. You didn't take it down. Right. But part of that had to do with. It's probably the most. If it isn't the most, it's one of the most viewed clips that you've ever had, probably on Instagram. Right? So. Right. So, like, is that a negative thing? Is that a positive thing? Is I bringing new people to you? I mean, I know you're not trying to do something like that and just be provocative when it's not really what you said, but is it a Positive or negative thing that that's on your Instagram think, you know, I'm gonna look at it as a positive thing because I think like, again, the people who know me by watching and listening to what I say for the last six and a half years probably understand and had a better insight and could, could filter those words out of my mouth a little bit better and say, well, you know, he probably doesn't mean it exactly that way, or he's using the agreement aggressive term fraud, you know, deliberately to get his point across. Like, people who know me know that I operate that way and that's how I deliver my thoughts in many cases. So for them, and that's who I'm talking to the most. For the 50, 000 other people who watch the video. Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, who knows? Maybe some of them, like, what are they gonna do? They're not following me one-of-one so no skin off my back at all. I don't think it's a negative. And, and if anyone actually wants to talk about it and say, hey, what were you really thinking? But you know, people don't do that. People in generally just, they just don't. So if, and the thing is, is for the people that aren't willing to cut you some slack or aren't willing to, aren't, don't have the mindset to think, you know, there's probably more to this than just that. I can tell it's a clip. It might be from a much longer conversation. For the people that took that literally as I said it. And don't give me any, don't give me any room for, you know, saying the wrong word there. You know, and I've said it many times, David. You've seen it, like you've heard me say it. That in, in a setting like when you're having a conversation, we don't sit there and, and, and analyze what we're about to say for half an hour to make sure we're not going to offend anybody. We say what we say and sometimes we say the wrong things. It, it happens a lot. Even one time, I was watching a clip recently where I talked. I was talking about, oh, Yu-Gi-Oh and your yellow roof. No, it was, it was Joe. When I was talking about his, his green Ruth, I said, yu-gi-oh yellow Ruth is beautiful. I don't remember saying yellow. It was clearly green. Sometimes you just say the wrong thing. So for the people who don't know me and aren't willing to cut me any slack or even if you do and aren't willing to, like, I don't care. Like, like you're, you know, it's one, it's sort of like you're not fault, you're not listening to me one-of-one so it's no skin off my back. And I'm glad I gave you, I'm glad I gave you an outlet to get some of your angst out on your keyboard. You know, maybe I've provided you a service that way, but that's it. Forget about it. Forget about it. I'm good. I'm good with it. That's why we're playing it again here, right? It's. I think it's kind of. I actually thought it was pretty funny the way it, the way it all, it all came out, because in my mind, I know what I meant. I know that I wasn't, you know, that it's. Hobby fraud was just a very aggressive way of saying lying to fellow hobbyists about what you know, about a card. And I called that hobby fraud. And you know what? Now I might just continue to call it that just for, for the old S&G's, you know, but I don't think the term. I, I actually, I disagree that that's like such a, a crazy term that you use. I just think that it had to do more with being deceptive about something when it's being asked. I think that that's the part that I think was, was missing just by specifying that part a little bit extra. I don't actually think that the word hobby fraud is that provocative to me. Yu-Gi-Oh And then, of course, Yu-Gi-Oh I appreciate that, David. The other thing is, like, it's already been said, but just one more time is that people didn't listen to the whole question you posed and they were honing in on not the right, the right thing that I was referring to. So. Because so many people were just saying how. Well, how can PSA give you a different grade? That's all. It's not about PSA giving you a different grade or not. It's not. It wasn't about PSA's inconsistency. It was about honesty with fellow hobbyists about what you know about a card. So a lot of people. And that, that's one of the reasons why I'm not going to delete it or why I'm not bent out of shape about it at all. It's because it was. People just misunderstood it. And that's a lesson learned. And we'll rectify that moving forward with, with future clips. And I'll Be a little bit more sensitive to what is, what, what is within that 45 second clip relative to the half hour discussion that that was around it, you know? Yu-Gi-Oh I mean it's, it's. I see it all the time on all things. Like, I think I sent you something on Facebook very recently where somebody like mentioned I sold a card and ended up going on vacation with the money. And then like everyone just like tell him how stupid they were. And it's just, I don't know. For me, I'm just somebody that doesn't take the time to write negative comments on people. I just like, move on to the next thing and it's. But I guess I'm, I'm, I'm not the norm because I think more people spend the time. I think, I think the norm, I think the true norm is for people to enjoy whatever they're watching and just moving on and not doing any, not thumbs upping or not hitting the, like, not leaving a comment. The negative comments, I believe, mostly come from people who just need an outlet for their negative energy in their, in their spirit. And you know, and they, but then you get, that's not the same as the people who come with constructive responses maybe pointing out where you might be wrong. Did you consider this when you said that, Jeremy? Or, or, you know, I have this experience that I have all the time in the world for. I don't need to be like, right. I want to find the truth about these things. I want to get to the thing that makes the most sense. And if you come, if you come in the comments or the chat with something that actually makes better sense, like, let's talk about it. But if you're just out there insulting and you know that, and just trying to, you know, make somebody feel bad or ruin somebody's day, then, you know, I don't know. In one way it's like, I feel, I have empathy for you and I just hope that me doing something that gave you the, the ability to put your negativity out into the world, well, well, I hope that helped you have a better day. I, I have much higher hopes for you to turn your life around because you clearly are having some issues that you need to work on to be a better contributor to society, be kinder to your fellow humans. So like those, those negative comments, they didn't bother me at all. Like, I literally was like chuckling because I'm like, Yu-Gi-Oh this is my fault. I did this to myself, you know, by putting that reel up the way, the way that we did so, Yu-Gi-Oh But again, I love the comments that are trying to add to the discussion, because, you know, Dr. Beckett, just last night, I listened to his episode, it's called Push Backs, and he was talking. You got a lot of mentions by him. I got a lot of men. He was actually. It was all about Sports Cards Live episodes. And he. He framed it by saying, you know, I'm a loyal listener to Jeremy Lee Sports Cards Live, and sometimes I wish I was on the show so that I could respond, because I know some things that they don't, and it'd be nice to add to the discussion. So he. Because he's not on, he does an episode where he talks about these and inserts himself into the discussion. There were some great comments that he made, and that's the kind of stuff that I love. I'm so honored that Dr. Beckett, he allocates a whole episode of his podcast to talk about what we're talking about on Sports Cards Live. And he even said at the end, he's like, I'm not doing this because I disagree. I'm doing this to add to the discussion and his comments, you know, for. I think we're spot on. I've got some responses I'd love to provide to some of the things he said, because. Me, too. Right. To continue the discussion. It was a great discussion. So that I have all the time for. And when it's somebody of Dr. Beckett history and knowledge in the hobby, that's a whole other level of. Of, you know, just being Zebra honored that. That he's taken the time and thinks it's important enough to talk about. So I'm actually, I. I feel because I tried to respond on the hangover and midlife card trades, I try to respond to. To pretty much everybody. I don't know if I'm always going to do that, but for right now, I do, because I. I'm honored, actually, by people that take the time to write a comment. Right. But I just have seen that 99% of comments, even if they're disagreeing, it's like, I love that back and forth, and I'm always like, oh, that's a great point. Like, that's different than what we like. I think that's great. It's when it gets insulting and name calling, that could be a little like, okay, all right. These are the annoying ones. So I completely agree with you. I'm, like, honored anytime somebody spends the time to write comments. I think my first two years of watching YouTube, I don't think I ever commented and I watched everything. So I started commenting later on as I started watching more and more. Yes, Yu-Gi-Oh I, I agree with you and you do a great job of, of responding to people on the comments and, and though especially you know, the ones that are constructive and that are just trying to join or you know, adding telling their story like Yu-Gi-Oh share, drop your comments. Like it's, it means a lot to us and it's fun to read and to hear because we are the ones who are talking out loud. People in the comments aren't here. That's how we get to hear you. And I don't want to be talking to myself the whole time or to, to you and to, to David and Hoage and Adam and Joe and Josh. Like it's in late and it's fun to engage in the comments too. Can't give all of them a ton of time all the time, but it's still much appreciated. And I like how you were also saying about that fraud topic that you're self reflective about it. Right. It's like we can sometimes adapt and change and have a different opinion than what we initially thought. And I love when people like test you in that kind of way in a constructive and interesting way. The pushback is something that I actually really enjoy because I, on my walks that I take, Jeremy takes walks every day also we're like going through hobby stuff in our mind and, and sometimes I'm rethinking some things that I have a very strong opinion about and I can make a change. Just like you've always said, Jeremy, you're like, I reserve the right to change my opinion. Right. That's like a Jeremy saying 100%. 100%. You know, and just when I, and why do I do that? Why? Because we don't know everything. We don't know everything. We can't consider all the different situations. And I'm always, I'm always interested in, you know, generalized statements, universal statements, Absolute statements are not, they're always filled with holes and those holes are called, are something that I would call like plausibilities to the contrary. And I'm always like is there a contrary, a plausible contrary explanation to what I'm about to say or what somebody else has said? And, and if there is, I don't know how you can make the Absolute statement. You know, you just, it's, it just, I think it just shows a lack of, of like intelligence or, or. But sometimes people do it for, for the reaction. You know, they know that they're they know they're not really doing it that way. They're doing it for the reaction. They're doing it for the. For the spirit of the conversation to have some fun. And that's where, you know, it. You just got to understand that that's where that person's coming from. And it's okay that that's a whole different sort of thing happening there. But when they really mean it by saying that, you know, whatever, saying something that is so universal, it's like, why are you sure about that? And let's, let's, let's. Let's kind of analyze this a little bit because there might be another reason that more compelling as compelling or. Or the truth. So I don't know. Yu-Gi-Oh Anything else before we wrap this one up, buddy? No, I'm good. That was fun. All right. Well, guys, thank you for joining comments below on any of the topics. We'd appreciate it. And I guess that's it. Thanks again to one-of-one Gretzky, the Cup, for sponsoring this episode or being brought to you. Thank you to Grail Guard. Thank you to the whole team of the sports card clubhouse. Thank you to David Chase and to Joshua Adams, the whole Sports Cards live team. We'll be back on Saturday for Sports Cards live on the sports cards live YouTube channel. David Oba. Well,