Is PSA Sitting on a Time Bomb? + The Truth About Card Comps + Missing Out Is Worse Than FOMO

Hello there. I'm Davin Hiskey and on my podcast the Brain Food show, our team, including the great Simon Whistler, our own devices Gilles Messier and fact fiend's Carl Smallwood serve up fascinating facts and stories that'll blow your mind. From ancient mysteries to scientific curiosities to deep dive history, we deliver knowledge that will help you become the star of Water Cooler Talk the world over. Listen to the Brain Food show wherever you get your podcasts. Sports Cards is a lifestyle. Sports Cards live now. Jeremy Lee in the building and every guest that you ever needed. Sports cards after hours Keep the hobby heated. Updates homie. Talk like you never seen it Sports cards live and I could ever beat it Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now. Welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host, Jeremy Lee. Go ahead, David. So then the question also remains. Let's say the stain does reappear. Well, we have insurance. We have the PSA guarantee, don't we? I wonder if PSA will because they have changed grades after they've given grades, realizing that their grade is incorrect, such as that PSA 10 Wilt Chamberlain card that they made it a nine. Later on, let the guy keep the card and pay them the difference. So I know this happened to Orlando where he felt like he had a card that looked like it was soaked and had something that reappeared. I'm wondering if we're able to use the PSA guarantee if we are to find that out. Or how about all these cards that are being soaked right now. Maybe AI comes out 10 years later and finds out that it can detect if a card has been soaked or not. Will that also be PSA guaranteed availability? I don't know. Right. Just another thought on this whole topic. Yeah, I have a question in terms of what happens to cards that have natural staining over a period of time, like some Duncan go nuts that turn yellowish or some of the Kobe cards over time. Yeah, I think he's talking about like the, the refractors and that story. We just lost Robert's audio. Probably just temporarily here, but you know, to me, I don't want those cards either. I don't want the, the Kobe refractor that's all greened out a little bit of green I'm okay with. But here's a really good question from not yell ya says David. Would it change your view of the mark if you knew that the mark was made in 1949 when someone tried to brush the spaghetti sauce off the card that they slurped onto it and the surface versus someone cleaning it a few months before grading. I added the spaghetti sauce there, Yelia, but great question, David. Take, take. You take the first stab at it. Definitely. If I felt like that was something that was just something that happened back in the day, or even a kid that wrote a piece of pencil on it and then erased it themselves, I'd be. It would be much easier for me to digest. The biggest thing, though, that I'm noticing, I'm not exaggerating. Like, over the last 24 months, I've seen so many more of cards that look like that. So is that just because I'm noticing it? Maybe. Okay, that could be a possibility. But I really do believe that it's possible that I think that there's more soaking going on right now than ever before and that I. We're seeing some of the mishaps from it. And that's just me guessing. I have no idea. And it could have been from the past, but to know that there's a chance of that, it scares me. And, but knowing that there's that PSA guarantee to protect us if we ever do figure this out, maybe that's going to be helpful. I don't know. It's so interesting. I love the PSA guarantee discussion. I completely love that. And I think they would protect you the grade of the card. I think PSA would protect the grade of the card and you would be eligible for your insurance claim there. And I. For Yelia's question there about, you know, the spaghetti sauce issue, I would, it would change my view if I knew that the mark was made in 1949 when someone was trying to brush off something innocently instead of trying to create, instead of trying to commit PSA fraud. I call it PSA fraud now, guys. That's. That's the new term. At least here in the Sports Cards Live studio. PSA fraud is when you're trying to trick psa. I don't know that it's really fraudulent from a law enforcement perspective. You can do whatever you want to your, to your possessions. I think you can do whatever you want your sports cards, guys, like, if we're just being really pragmatic about it, but we have a set of, of, you know, mores here in the hobby. And, and that's one of them. What, what. How we like the ethics to be and all that. So. And then Orlando here says, yeah, I have a card that the glue removal stain came back years later. So I think I've heard Orlando say that before and that's a, that can be a bit of an issue for sure. So lots more comments coming through. Robert, we lost you mid sentence. Can you remember where you were and pick up where you left, pick up where you left off, please? No, I was just commenting on different types of cars and you, you were correct with the Kobe refractor that stains over time. And you know what happens if it's graded a certain grade and it becomes prevalent as time goes on. Does obviously it affects resale value because people are looking at that specific grade in comparison to others of similar grade. Fair. Yeah, yeah, you mentioned the dunk and go nuts to another one that, you know, I don't think I would have to think that if it's, if, if cards are naturally changing because of how they were produced, not how they were handled post production, I don't think that PSA is going to guarantee anything that way. But if it's something that maybe happened, you know, more by the by the by PSA fraud, that they would likely cover it. So sorry, I don't know if that completely spoke to you there, Robert. One sec, David, because here's, here's a really Great Stray Cat 67 says if collectors had any idea just how many of their favorite cards in their collections were cleaned or improved in some way, they'd either just accept it going forward or leave the hobby. That's, I think he makes a really good point there. What, what are, what is, you know, how are you going to handle it when you learn that a lot of your cards have been treated. I mean, I, as someone who is against it for my own cards, I'm very willing to accept that I likely have a certain amount of cards in my collection that are, that have been soaked or have been altered and they've just gotten right past PSA without any, without, without any question or, you know, any screw. Not, not any scrutiny, but with the scrutiny just being all for not just worthless scrutiny in that, in that case. So yeah, it's a tough situation. Go ahead, Robert. Sure. And I had a can of worms to this and that would be that if this becomes as massive as it could potentially be, especially with some of the dealers who are commenting on the T206 group, does PSA have enough backing to actually provide a guarantee? Because the cards that are, that it's taking place with and the valuations today, I don't know if they have enough money to cover it. I, I, I'm not concerned about that, Robert. The amount of money that they're bringing in on a daily basis the other thing is that they have maximums in place on those guarantees. I'm, I, that I think you raise a legitimate concern. I think it's worth asking if the, if you know, it hits the fan and everybody decides to, to cash in on, on the PSA insurance which again is one of the biggest. It's, it's why I want my cards in PSA slab. One of the reasons why, because I love, I love, I just love any insurance where someone else pays your premiums. To me it's incredible. It's like you can't get that anywhere else. I wish other industries would take a page out of PSA's, you know, business model for that. But, but, but they, they, they cap people, right? Everyone's cap. You're capped at, you're capped at 500, 000 lifetime and you're capped at a quarter million per card. So you know, I don't know how many millions they have in the reserve for this but I'll tell you every single day they are adding to their reserve to, to meet these, this contingent liability that sits on their books. It has to sit on their books even as a private company. So they have third, third party insurance? No, they are. So it's all self insured. It's all through the upcharges and it's why they charge so much for grading. They charge so much for grading. One of the reasons is to fund the insurance, is to fund this insurance. The payouts, that's it. They self insure. David, I actually agree with Robert. I don't think that they have enough to cover the amount of cards that have been altered. And I think that it could be a huge deal for psa. I think that that could be someday a reason for their downfall. And I think that they are really not wanting AI to come out to be able to figure out alterations because if AI can figure out a trimmed card or a soaked card, PSA is in a lot of trouble. And I think that they're going to do everything they can to not have that technology come out. This is just me speculating. Maybe I have my tin hat on. Maybe they bought SGC and Beckett because they had a version that they were starting to get a little bit more AI and decided to take them out to make sure it wasn't coming. I don't know. I know that that's me really going pretty far on this, but that could be a possibility. Now who's left? Right? There's only a couple of companies left and I think that if another Company had AI. I wouldn't be surprised if PSA bought them too, because they do not want to pay out as many cards that are in these labs that have these kind of problems. Another thing that, when you spoke about the Cobie, the Coron Kobe card in the Hulking, another thing that kind of brought into my attention is there's such a few amounts of those cards that have no hulking to it. Right. The green. Right. And it is a natural thing for that card to turn green. So we all think, huh, those cards that haven't turned green, that's because they've been in somebody's basement and shown no light forever. You know what, Maybe those have had some kind of treatment to make it where those cards have not hoped. Right. Maybe there is some kind of version of that for altering to be able to have it where that doesn't happen, because that is a natural process for those carbs. So there's just so many different versions of these alterations. And I think that it is a very, very deep pool and I think that we know this much of it and that's why we're having these kind of discussions. Well, I mean, you got me thinking about the whole, you got me thinking about the whole, you know, can they fund the eventual claims? And I think that I, I agree. I mean, if everybody with altered cards or cards that PSA would rather have, you know, where cards that PSA says they won't slap and offer guarantees on if everybody came forth at once, is that enough to bankrupt PSA based on their, their, their policy, their, their guarantee? Is that, is that enough? I. I don't know. I mean, we all we have, we have here. Stray Cat says the sum total of just altered vintage cards alone is worth many, multiple more than all of Collectors Inc. Not to even mention modern cards. Their guarantee is a terrible business policy. Well, it's, it's terrible maybe for them, it's great for us. I've been the recipient of it. I say it almost every week nowadays. So, yeah, I mean, maybe it's terrible for them and maybe it is there, maybe it is their eventual downfall, but I have to think they figure out a way to not have to go bankrupt because of it. I, I think there's got to be a way for them. I mean, if they're. Again, if they're grading. What if they're grading like a quarter million cards a day now, I think I've seen in some, in some cases, like, their revenues are just monstrous. And the other thing is that cards that are like a PSA 10 mantle. You know, if that's. If that's a hundred million dollar card, they only have to pay out 500,000 on it. Apparently they make some side deals. They go. They will go in excess. I've heard of their maximum payout. But here, Bird Gang says PSA ex president of grading training, admitted on Boston Card Hunters Channel that they also grade more valuable iconic cards harder because new graders are scared and nervous to give a 10, which just, you know, completely just come. It just makes the whole thing like, as Ziggy calls it, wizardry. You know, it's. It's. It's literally you're not getting out. It's just not at. You're not getting accurate grades. You're getting. You're just getting whatever it is that you're getting. Lion Tales says PSA is gonna buy tag. Mark my words. He goes on to say, tag is. What does he say somewhere says tag is struggling bad. Tag is succeeding bad. Actually, lion tails. They are at max capacity, just like they're. They're running three shifts, 24 7. They're not struggling. They're struggling to keep up, just like PSA is. But. But everyone's having the same problem. It's just simply hiring the graders is. Is the. Is the tough thing there for all of these guys. Okay, David, you gotta go. So goodbye. Bye. I have to go watch fireworks. You guys have a great discussion. Can't wait to listen. All right, buddy. Thank you. All right now, but Leighton has joined the back room now, Robert. So we're gonna bring. We're gonna bring Leighton on and. Sorry, my. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. Because I can't hear you now, so. Okay, I'm gonna take you out, Robert. Give me a thumbs up when you can hear me again in the background. Okay? Leighton, welcome. Say hello to Robert. Robert, say hello to Leighton. I'll let you guys meet each other quick and we'll go on. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you as well, Leighton. Robert collects vintage. He collects modern. He's doing a T206 run of some sort. He's working on some things we haven't even gotten in yet to learning more about. Robert. This topic that we've been talking about has been dominating the discussion, but when I bring on Leighton from Just Collect, he's my. My partner in the Vintage Spotlight podcast. We'll have another episode coming out soon, guys. We promise. We promise. Before we jump in late and just curious from you, what's going on? Anything at Just Collect you want to mention always thank you for being a great sponsor here of the show, also a part of the team. But talk to us, Latent, what's going on with you before we jump back into our discussion? Well, I hope everyone's having a great Fourth of July. I watched some fireworks along the Hudson river with some good friends, and I'm happy to make it back here in time. Hoboken is completely chaotic with traffic, so I'm glad that I walked. I'm happy to be here. Good. Good for you. Nice to hear that. And it was an enjoyable night. Everything going well out there in New York City? Yeah. I mean, you know, from what I can tell, everyone's in a joyous mood to cross the river here. We can see the city, but, no, I'm actually technically in Hogwarts. Okay. Okay, good. Well, we've been talking about cleaning cards. I don't know if you've been able to watch any of this leading up. You just. No, I literally just showed up. Kind of dropped me right in here. All right, well, then what we're gonna do, guys, is we are going to continue. I want to bring on just comment here from Tony. Says the insurance at PSA is not free. It's paid for on every grading. I agreed with that. But if you don't submit cards to PSA and you just buy them on the secondary market, it's free. Yes. It might be priced in all PSA car. We know PSA cards command the most money, and maybe it's because of that, but to me, that's money well spent. As a buyer of secondary cards, I've never once paid an upgrade. I shouldn't say I have submitted cards to PSA. Maybe I've submitted 50 cards in the last. Since 2. Since 2009. I've maybe graded 50 cards with them, and I've been paid out on their guarantee well in excess of that. Of that amount. So I love the policy for me, as a. As the owner of several cards in PSA slabs. Okay, Leighton, it's good to have you back. I feel like you haven't been on for a few weeks, man. It's. Yeah, I. I'm happy to be back. I don't want to deviate from what you guys are talking about, but I feel like I had two good questions that I did not email you about or text you, but please, by all means, go right ahead. But I just wanted you to know I'm prepared. Okay? Ready, willing, and able to deploy these questions. Okay, hold on to them, because, Robert, here's the thing. I Told Robert we'll bring you on at a quarter to the hour. He comes on 10 minutes late. Now. We're already like almost an hour into his appearance. We haven't even got to Robert's topics. Okay. And I want to, but you can stay on. For how long? Leighton. So just after 12, so 25 more minutes or so? Yeah, give or take. Okay, so let's. I want to. I want to go. And I want to start with one of Robert's topics, and then we'll go to your questions. Layton, you'll leave. We'll go back to Robert's topics, if that's okay with everybody. So, Robert, Robert, we're not going to get through everything at the beginning that we thought we would. You know, you know, you listen. You know how this goes, right? But I do want to talk about the topic that Robert presented to me, which was around comps and comps potentially having more context within them. So, Robert, I don't want to steal your thunder. Why don't you set the stage for. Or do you want me to? Because I have it right in front of me in writing if you want. Because I have the email you sent me. Do you want me to read it or do you want to kind of go and explain it? Why don't you read it first? And I'll elaborate even further on that. So. Sounds good. Sounds good. We're partners in this, Robert. So, okay, he said to me, sure. Should comps have two prices, such as net seller price and gross buyer price, similar to stocks having a bid and an ask pricing. So I. I read that message from Robert. I thought, I mean, we think like this anyway, and in many cases, you know, you think about what is the comp. Okay, the last comp was $12,000, let's say. Okay, well, in many cases, if that's at auction, that. That 12,000 might have been 10,000 plus a 20% buyer's premium, meaning the seller only got 12. Only got 10 of that $12,000. So if you're now selling me that same card and you say, well, the comps. 12, you know, I want 12, I could say to you, yeah, but you only got 10 for it, so why would I give you 12 now and then? Well, you would have had to pay 12. Why should I take less than 12? Is that kind of what you were getting at, Robert, with that whole discussion? Exactly. And it goes even further than that because there's taxes, shipping, whole host of other fees, so the cost can be anywhere between 15 and 30%, depending on the card. And where you're buying it and so on. And I know being a Canadian collector buying from American auction houses and dealing with currency exchange on top of that. So it's, you know, there's a whole host of different costs that are associated with the, with the transaction. And there, there must be a way to formalize it in one way, shape or form, depending on what side of the, the transaction you're on, to really give you better pricing. That's exactly right. Even on, even on the, the, the, on, on the buyer side, the comp, you know, I bought my Joe Jackson, my 14 cracker Jack Joe Jackson at auction. You know, $150,000 was, was what the comp looks like. But it doesn't say in there that I paid a funding fee. I paid over $10,000 on top of that just to fund the thing that's not there. So what's the Comp? Is it 150? Is it 160? Is it, is it 125? Which was the hammer? Is it whatever the seller got, which would have been the 125 hammer? Usually you think that's all the seller gets, but oftentimes the auction companies will even cut the seller in to the buyer's premium. So it could be a bit higher. So you got to be so careful. All this is talked about, by the way, in Pops and comps. Everything we're talking about is addressed in this book to give people who aren't aware of these moving parts all the different kind of possibilities and scenarios there. But, so I'm with you, Robert. I think that comps are very limited in ex. In the story they tell. They are, they only tell a part of the story. They, There's a lot missing from that story. So if you are someone who's out there using comps, you need to understand the context. I wrote, I got chapters about this in the book. So I'm with you, Robert. I think that that is something that people need to understand. Leighton, what are your thoughts? Well, Robert, it's a great thought provoking question. I'm glad that you brought it to Jeremy's attention on the show. Yeah, no, I think it's fascinating to discuss this kind of stuff, especially as the hobby gets bigger. So number one, I think you brought up, like I said, a really thought provoking question. Number two, something I think that's kind of left out is that the playing field is really not apples to apples. And what I mean, Robert, is forget about that. You live in Canada. Let's just assume that you Live in the US For a moment. If you're a collector in the US versus a dealer and someone who has a business like myself here at Just Collect, it's a little bit different how things operate. In other words, I don't pay sales tax. I might not even pay insurance. I might actually give an auction house my FedEx number to ship to me, which means that my FedEx account will be billed because maybe I think that particular auction house's charges are exorbitant. But as a collector, it might be more challenging for you to do or deal with those kinds of things. So I just wanted to kind of point that out because it's really not all apples to apples out there kind of the way you both are alluding to, but I wanted to add that extra wrinkle on top of it. More, more to the story potential that you just. People don't. Aren't always aware of. Yeah, definitely agree. Any other thoughts on. On that topic, Robert? Yeah, no, you bring up a great point, Leighton. I know as well that different buyers, depending on their volume, pay different ebay fees on the. On their transactions. So very difficult. But it would be. People need to be cognizant of the different, different costs on, on both sides of the equation and what it. What. What the intent was to try and make it. Where if there's a middle price, if you're doing a transaction, buyer and seller, that both can win, even if you're not hitting the last comp. When you're looking at something on different pricing, pricing software. Yeah, makes sense to me. Okay, I'm gonna. A couple quick comments here, guys. Jim defined. Oh no, not that one. Sorry. Card. Fuchsias here said, do you think PSA has gotten better since 2021? It's been five years since, since the new ownership group took over. I don't know. I think. I think that they probably have gotten better in some ways, but I also think that they've grown so much and they've decentralized. I just don't know how they have control, how they have consistency controls in place. I would like a tour. I would like a tour of more than one of their offices to have and even go through their training program to see how they are maintaining consistency. Sancho here says, was the Joe Jackson restored. I think he's talking about my card. Obviously he is. I don't think it was. Sancho. Great question. I don't think it was. I traced its ownership back to the 1960s and through all those steps. I, I don't think it was, but I cannot be certain. Just like any card in. In my collection. So tough to say for certain, but I traced it back in owner. Like I've got provenance back to the the 60s, which I, I love about. About my card. And Reef the Sea says, what about those dealers that throw comps out the windows at conventions? All I'll say to that is that's their right. Guys, like, like, listen, nobody is governed by any comp. No seller. It has to sell a card for the re. A recent comp. Guys, if comp. If everybody sold a comp and everybody bought a comp, there'd be one price forever for every single card. It's ridiculous to think that way. And not all cards are the same in the same grade. So comps are. Comps are helpful. That's it. That is it. So I, I'll just sort of leave that at that as long as far as how I think about it. Another topic, Robert, that you wanted to talk about. You'll like this one, Leighton. I think I'm gonna read this one. He says coming up against scarcity and true float with player grail cards where certain collectors have cornered the market for rarer cards. For example, a top Scar Kanebo. I don't know what Kibo is, Robert, but So back in 2002, 2003, there was a. A set issued in Japan, a takeoff on just regular tops. Tops cards. So they were issued in the US In Japan, it was a, a smaller set of the Topps 2002 set. And they had the gold, gold backing, gold frame, silver frame, and black frame. And while they weren't numbered, the blacks are maybe a pop of 10. They're almost impossible to find. And the Vlad Guerrero. I'm a Vlad Guerrero collector. There were, there were zero on the PSA pop report. And it took me about two years to find one. And when I did find one, I found out that the, the 10 more or less there, there. There's only a few out there. There's one particular collector who probably has all of them. So that, that's one example of creating scarcity above and beyond what the limited print run is. Right. So you're okay, we're talking about a rare card that is very hard to buy. Somebody is basically hoarding them. But then you went on to talk about, you said like, is this market manipulation? Is it cool? And, and then there's, there's. We. We all know about fomo, but Robert brought up the concept of mo simply missing out. It's not the fear of missing Out. It's the missing out itself. Robert Explain that. What were you thinking there? And bring and marry these two concepts if you can. Yeah. So I can bring up another small, small grouping of cards, subset Dunross Crusade. They have a, a red card which had a print run of 25. That, that specific card I was looking at had a PSA pop for a 10. There was only one available. And it comes out and you actually miss out on that one card and you're thinking, I'm never going to get that in my collection. And it's. So that's the missing out where you've actually missed out on it. It. It's gone and you may or may not ever come across it again. Yeah, that's never fun. Layton does that ever happen to you where you, you know, the card you've been looking for comes up and you either like, this has happened to me, it's happened to me this way too, where there's a card that I want, but I forgot to look for it. I go to, I go to ebay, completed listings and there it is, there's the card sold three weeks ago and I wasn't on the ball enough to watch for it, so I missed out on it. That's missing out. That's not the fear of missing out. That's, that's mo. That's, that's just missing out altogether. Lane, do you have any sort of experiences like that that come to mind where you're just like, dang it, or do you take this position? I often take with almost every card, which is there's always more cards to buy. What do you think? Leighton? Well, it's interesting and obviously this is a little bit self serving here. So on the card side of things, I really have started to use auction wire quite deeply so that I don't miss cars. That not only am I looking for my PC, but that also I'm looking for, let's say, a long term investment, but they might be difficult to find, whether it be because it's numbered, like Robert's referring to, or it's a vintage card and I'm looking for a certain type of eye appeal. So that's kind of something that comes to mind. You know, I would say, you know, to start, it's a little bit, I would say, I'm sure the way that you described it. Robert Deflating. If you're going after a card and we feel like a collector's buying them up. I remember that was a little bit going on with let's say like 1993 finest refractors, you know, way back in the day, maybe that's going on with PMGs. And in regards to missing out, I feel like, you know, memorabilia is a little bit more challenging. Like I collect Michael Jordan memorabilia and I have some really cool stuff in my collection, but I can definitely tell you about the items I didn't win, you know, so was it that I missed out or was I just not able to find a comp or was I just at my budget, meaning the top of it? You know, I don't know. But I feel like for cards I'm figuring it out and for memorabilia, because it's a balance of art and science and I guess cards are like that as well. It's. I feel like it's happening to me a little bit more than the memorabilia side. Fair. And Mookie Chilson says Auction Wire is your cure for mo. It's your cure for missing out. And as I said on the top of the show, Auction Wire, which Leighton is a co founder of, Auction Wire is you guys are introducing new features all the time and the watch list feature is amazing. I'm using it and as I think I said too, it, it not only will it help you not miss out on cards listed across all the auction platforms, it'll probably cause you to buy cards you weren't even planning to buy because it picks up on a lot of great cards. Yeah, warning. Exactly. Warning. You may spend more than originally intended. Yeah. Before. Before you jump, Robert, I want to bring Joe Perot onto the show with us because he's in the back. Joe, you good, buddy. Joe is good. We're going to bring him on. Say hello to Joe. Welcome Joe back, everybody. Joe, hello. Meet Robert. Hi, Joe, nice to meet you. Hello. Good to see you. Leighton. Good to meet you, Robert. Hey, Jay Lee, Great conversation. Don't let me stop the flow. Keep it, keep it rolling. Robert, over to you. Thank you, Joe. I just wanted to say I'm a heavy user of Auction Wire and it's a game changing platform and appreciate you you putting it into play, Leighton. Because I think the hobby's been died for something like that. That's very kind. And Reef the Sea says I'll check out Auction Market. There is an affiliate link in the video description below, guys. So if you're gonna go sign up for Auction Wire, you can use the sports cards live affiliate link and get 60 free days of service. So do check that out. Do, do check it out that way. Reef the Sea. Appreciate that. Okay, so Joe, we were just talking about not the fear of missing out, but actually missing out on a card. It's happened to all of us. We're going to switch it up again now. Leighton came prepared with a couple of questions for the panel. So now that Joe's here, let's have a fresh start. And then I still. Just. So everyone knows the. The program here, once we get through Leighton's two topics, there's at least one more Robert topic that I want to get to. So we'll hold that one until we're done with Leighton's question. So, Leighton, what. What's on your mind, my friend? Well, I could go either one of two directions, but I'll do the one I think is a little more thought provoking, and that is, if you are a collector, would you rather have more money but less time to pursue the hobby? Okay. Or would you rather have much less money but a lot more free time on your hands to pursue the hobby? There's no. There's no right or wrong answer. Is, is this about, like, okay, at first, until you said time on your hands? I was thinking, like, how many more years and decades do I have? Like, if I could do the hobby for five years and have a billion dollars or 25 years and have a hundred thousand dollars, like, is it that or is it just daily, like you're. We're all gonna live till we're 90 sort of thing? I mean, listen, you could take it for whatever you, you know, you want to take it for. I don't have exactly, like a whole outline of rules and regulations, but maybe this will become a topic on a future episode of Vintage Spotlight. You never know. But it really. Where we have rules for our games. Exactly. It got me thinking, I guess, of this, right? Like, we all think we want this unlimited budget, but we also know that if you had unlimited budget, a lot of the fun, I think, would not be present for that chase for the. That hunt. And I'm just curious, what do you guys think? Not just, you know, the four, you know, the four of us, but also the community. Well, if it's. If it's. How many more years do I have left to enjoy the hobby? Like my example, give me a billion dollars to be in the hobby for five years or give me 100 grand to be in the hobby for the next 30 years? I'm going to take 30 years and 100 grand versus a billion for five. I can't imagine my life without the hobby. So I'm going to always go for the. I'm pretty much always Going to go for the time over the money there. Leighton, how about you, Robert? Any thoughts on this conundrum Leighton has presented? Was looking at it in a different fashion as far as the time component was. So I was looking at it more along the lines of do I have an hour a day or six hours a day? I would choose, choose the money over the time and spend a little less time. I spend about an hour a day on the hobby. I'm okay with that. Would I like to have less money in my life and spend five hours a day on the hobby? Probably not. I'm happy with the, the allocation of more money. See, for me, I would have to. I'm spent. I spend six hours a day on the hobby, so I would now have to take time away and find something else to do, which I could easily do. So, Joe, where do. What are you thinking on this one? I. I think I go a tiny bit more in the direction of the money just because I feel like I've spent so much time thinking about the hobby that I could probably deploy those resources in interesting ways without too much extra research. And, and that said, I mean, I, I tend to value time more, and I just want to mention it's about to be a war zone here in Santa Cruz. Dusk is, is hitting right now, so I'm going to be muting on and off just to alleviate any unnecessary explosions to, to the rest of the YouTube community. So. But anyway, I'm pretty split down the middle, but I lean a little towards resources. All right, good. Okay. Leighton, satisfied with your question. How about you? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's interesting to discuss. You know, if I had to vote, because I gave it a little bit of thought, of course, before I brought it to you all, I would actually vote for the time, but not so much because of the way that, let's say that you interpreted Jeremy or you did. Robert, because we all interpret, I think, a little bit differently. For me, I have a lot of time that I spend in the hobby, but it's what I do for work, and a little bit of it's lost because I do it for work, I enjoy it, and I do collect. But if you said to me, what's the one resource that you can't get more of no matter how much money you have? And that's absolutely time. So for me, I think I would opt towards time, and I think the money would follow, and that's what I would vote for. But you can interpret the question however you want. That's what's fun about it for sure. Joe. Just to add on, there's so much time when in theory I'm doing other things that I'm still thinking about the hobby that it like I don't even want to admit that because I might not have a job. But the, the, the reality is like I, I don't think there's any way in this experiment, this thought experiment that the, the brain functions would prevent me from being able to think about the hobby. Now that's not actively pursuing, you know, if I didn't have access to card ladder if I didn't have access to you know, save searches and all that. But it's on auction wire. Yeah. An auction wire. Any of it, Any of it. But I, I do, I have my head spinning around with the information I do have over the, you know, not small amount of years I've I've already put in. So that's a little extra addendum to my answer. It's a fun, it's a fun thought experiment Latent. You know, it's one you can take in different ways. So what. Okay. You said you had two topics. What's, what's number two? I do. Now Jeremy, please don't get offended as I know you're Canadian. Right. But this is more towards the American contingency that's watching this evening. But I'm curious with America's 250th birthday upon us and obviously everyone celebrates July 4th differently, at least in America, but the commonality is fireworks and you know, hot dogs and barbecue, things of that nature. I'm curious, has America's 250th celebration and birthday and maybe a little bit of the World cup fever, has it caused anyone in the community, meaning here, like you know, collectors to actually go outside of the norm and collect whether it be a non sport card of George Washington or some memorabilia related to whether something unrelated to cards and, or sports cards. That's what I was curious about. Like yeah, it makes me think of like Ted Williams cards or Pat Tillman cards like people like the real patriotic Americans in history and sport. So yeah, for, for me I did share on my Instagram today a a U S themed card that I have in my collection and it's a, it's a beautiful card and I'm going to show it to you guys really quickly right now if you don't follow me on Instagram. But I shared this as with a caption, you know, happy 4th of July to all my American friends. And there's the card I shared. It's a US Flag from the shoulder patch worn by American born Brian Leach, hall of Fame and Stanley cup champion with the New York Rangers back in 1994. And it's a huge patch of the Stars and Stripes. It's beautiful card. I love it. I'm not American, but I love this card. I'm not moving it. I love it as if I was American. So. But fun question, Leighton. Robert, how about. Well, Robert's Canadian too, so I don't know if you have any thoughts on this. If you do, put up your hand. How about you, Joe? Not so much in this, in this particular holiday. Although, you know, during the Olympics, I did, I did go out and, and look at, you know, Jack Hughes, and I can't even pronounce his name. The goalie Yander Chuck, or whatever his name was. Holly Chuck. Thank you. But Hellabak not held the Bach. Just, just Hellebok. But it's okay. Must be, must be, must be a different name anyway, but no, in this go round, I mean, ironically late, and I bought a Mbappe card a couple games into the first round just because I felt like maybe it was my French roots. And then today, watching the match in Philadelphia, I mean, it was, it was pretty intense. You know, even before the teams came out onto the field, there was a lot of kind of pomp and circumstance and, and, and sort of, you know, patriotism, nationalism. So, you know, it's an interesting time. But I, I've felt encouraged psychologically by this World cup, by people, you know, coming to North America as the continent and joining together. So I, I'd say more energetically reaping a sort of positive experience than acquiring anything tangible. Does it, does it make a difference that it's the 250th birthday of independence of the United States? I mean, it's a nice big round number, 250, you know it. I'm asking this, just not about the hobby, more just for what the vibes are down in the, in the USA Today. Is this, is this a more impactful Independence Day than, than the last several that we've all been alive since maybe to the last 49, since the 200th anniversary sort of thing. Leighton. Yeah, I mean, I guess, right, if we're covering this, like the hobby, I would say that activity was high. They said, like, if I was discussing this as the national, you couldn't move where I was watching the fireworks at all. So in years past, you could maybe lift up your arms and swing them and. No, no, there was no, there was no room whatsoever. And according to, you know, Macy's, which was their 50th ever parade, you know, as far as the, excuse me, fireworks display, they claimed it was their biggest ever. Right. And I turned on the TV briefly when I got home, and I would say that the vibe is, is. Is a little bit more, you know, higher pitched than usual. I mean, 250, as you said. It's a nice round number. Yeah, well, the chat is telling me yes. I mean, I'm getting lots of Mookie. Yeah, 250 is a big one. Yes. It's a big deal. Says Reef the sea. Tim says UFC Freedom250 was the best moment in television history. Lauren Anderson, this is the 250th. Let's go. Yes, people shut down since July 2nd. He says, Stuke says 200 was in 1976 was a lot more exciting than 250. So he's saying 200 was even a bigger one. I wonder if 300 will be bigger than 250, if that's sort of the, the, the pace of things. Interesting. Yeah, well, fun, fun, fun. Hey, listen, Happy birth, Happy Independence day. Happy big250 to all of our friends, as we say up here, south of the border. And as I've said before here, as a Canadian, we love our American friends south of the border. So what you might see elsewhere and on social media and even some things in the news, it's. It only represents the, the loud minority if they're ever, I would say, coming at the US and oftentimes it's not at the usa, it's at a. It's oftentimes it's just wrapped up or, or, or directed at one specific individual who's an American citizen, not at, at the whole country and all the fine people down there. So. All right, well, fun topic, man. Fun topic or topics? Okay. I want to respect. Leighton, your time. Are you. Because I, I. Okay. I want to go back to one of Robert's topics. You're welcome to stay, Layton. Josh Adams is in the back. I want to bring him on. So, Leighton, you want to stick around for 10 more minutes or so, or do you got to go now? I'm actually going to take off. I got an early rise tomorrow. But I appreciate you having me. I hope everyone has a great rest of the night celebrating. For those that are celebrating, and for those north of the border, like yourself, Jeremy and Mark Giuto and long haired Larry and all my Canadian friends, right? And Bobby Roll, have a great night and I'll see you guys next week. Take care, Leighton. Thanks, buddy. Nice meeting you, Leighton. Take care. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the sports cards live community. Don't forget to, like, subscribe and most of all, keep collecting more great content to come. Sports cards is a lifestyle.