Jeremy Rants! + PSA Doesn't Owe You Anything + The Hot Take That Will Upset the Hobby

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Welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host, Jeremy Lee. Now, Leighton, I want to ask you because we were before you came on, I don't know if you were listening, but we were talking about just the potential for there to be ticket finds out there. Leighton is a professional baseball card treasure hunter. That's what he does. He's a treasure hunter. Leighton, I have to think with you being out there, have you ever come across ticket, people's ticket collections and do you think that there are ticket collections out there waiting to be discovered? We definitely come across ticket collections. We just bought a small ticket collection the other day and as far as fines, I know for a fact they exist because we've been offered a couple through the years and people are certainly more aware of their tickets now. And so, you know, you never know. We get contacted with all sorts of tickets, like super bowl tickets to someone's school play tickets. So you just, you just never know. You try to let them down lightly, you know, but you're coming, you're coming across new collections, like new finds. You call them fresh to the hobby. Leighton, do you think that there are fresh to the hobby ticket collections that are not from school plays but from sporting events, concerts, presidential inaugurations? Like, I just feel like both David and I have our ticket collections from our lifetime. I have to think there's more of those out there waiting to be discovered. Probably, like maybe not as many as card collections, maybe more, who knows? I mean, there could be a lot and they may not be that important guys, but they are still a record of the, of someone's history through through going to events. And there may be the odd gem, like when I did, when I pulled all my tickets out of my file, out of the, the file folder that I've had them in for decades. I sat here, I opened up chat GPT and I. And I basically gave it the date and the event and said, do I have anything here? Any. Did anything important happen at any of these events? And I mean, it was trying to find something for me and it couldn't. Like, there's nothing there. But that's, that's what I think people will. Will start to do, and they'll probably find a couple here and there. So we'll see. We'll see if it happens. But here's another one for you, Howard. Yep. When people. And we've seen it now. We've seen. I think Upper deck has done it. I think leaf trading cards has done it. They take tickets, they, they. I don't know if they crop them or what they do. And they insert. They. They make them a part of a card. We've seen ticket relics. How does the ticket community feel about the card community, you know, commandeering their pieces and making them into cards? And they're no longer tickets now they're cards. Just like, you know, a swatch of. Of game use patches. No longer a jersey. It's a piece of the jersey. How do you guys feel about that, that business going on? We love it. We love it. If you're going to collect tickets in a card form, in a ticket form and whatever form, we love it. And, and we're, we're all for it. I, I don't have many of those leaf ticket cards, but I do have some. I prefer the actual ticket itself than that leaf card, but I respect it and I welcome it, and I think most, most ticket collectors feel the same way. If we, if we get to have card collectors that are interested in that and they want to collect those, we're absolutely all for it. Very cool. Very cool. Okay, well, Howard, before we let you go and wrap this up, you did send me a bunch of more tickets to, to, to show. So why don't we just kind of. And I've showed a few of them already. We will run through comments as well. And then we're gonna, we're gonna turn the conversation over to Leighton and some other topics, but why don't we just kind of run through some of these? So here you sent me. Okay, well, let's start. No, wrong window. Hold on, let me open up. Let me go here. Not the wrong window. For you guys. But actually, I'm gonna just do this for a second. I'm gonna go back to the beginning, and we'll go through them one at a time. Okay, so here we go. So. So we talked about the Gretzky first professional debut ticket from his days in the WHA. By the way, the WHA merged with the NHL to begin, I think, the 80, 81 season, I believe it was. So that's. The Indianapolis Racers did not continue after that year, and he went to become an Edmonton Oiler. The Brooklyn Dodgers. Now, this isn't a ticket, but this is something to do with Jackie Robinson's debut. Duke Snyder's on this, says, is it. Is it press validation? What is this thing? So this is a pass that was given out to either members of the press or certain players would get it or family members. These are very collectible. So this is a 1947 Brooklyn Dodgers pass. And this would entitle the person to be able to go to every single home Brooklyn Dodgers game that Jackie Robinson played in in 1947. So you would have gotten to see Jackie's first game. And every game there. They're in at Ebbets Field. Passes are not tickets because they're not specific to one date, but they are incredibly collectible. This is an amazing piece right here because this allows you to see every game from Jackie's inaugural season when he broke the color barrier. It's just very cool. And it looks like the holders. Looks like the holder's name is on there as well. Yep, yep. Very cool. All right. You sent the Derek Jeter MLB debut. I think debut tickets are kind of like the rookie card. That would be the analogy there. You're nodding, so I think I'm right about that. Is this a rare debut ticket? It is. This is actually a full ticket to Derek Jeter's debut. It was on the road in Seattle. This one happens to be a PSA 9, so it's the highest graded. So there are only three of these known in the PSA POP report. And this will also be one of our featured lots in our initial auction that's coming up on September 17th. And notice this is May 1995, two years after his rookie card came out. We have a Jim Brown NFL debut from 1957. This thing is exactly what I would want. Nice and used, torn right there. Like this is this David? And. Yeah, David, isn't this awesome? Right, Leighton? Like, this thing's killer. Jim Brown's NFL debut. I have to think that, like, a lot of times in Cards, people say, oh, this is a PSAA Pop 13. You don't know total pop. You don't know pop higher. But to me, in tickets, I want to know total pop. I don't care about anything else. What's the to do, you know the total population of a Jim Brown NFL debut? I don't know it off the top of my head, but I'd say it's probably less than 15 or 15 or less. Yeah. Very cool. Very cool piece. LeBron James NBA debut. I mean, this is interesting. Dylan Taylor Crow. Some kid. This is some kid. Some young kid from. Who was a fan of the show or a fan or ticket holder's grandson or something is on the card. That does not help the. That or the ticket. That. That kind of detracts from it for me, Howard, I think this is kind of like I, I don't. I don't like it. So let me tell you this, Jeremy. It's exactly what we talked about earlier. So I hate the fact that this kid is on this ticket. I think it's horrific too. I just can't stand it. But I'm gonna say this. It's exactly the example that we talked about. Tickets were not meant to be kept. They were meant to be discarded. And that's why they're so collectible. This was a. This was a. A contest for season ticket holders and they put images on the tickets from their season ticket holders. This kid happened to be on LeBron James's debut ticket. Amazing. I mean, that, that kid. That kid is. Is now, if he's one there, you know, he's now 25 years old or so, and that's pretty cool. Very cool for him. The ultimate. The. The first match as the ultimate war. I'm just going to run through some. We're not going to talk about each of these, Howard. I'm going to run through some of these. But the ultimate warriors debut, it looks like here is. This is cool. Cassius Clay wins the light heavyweight gold at the Olympics. Really quickly, Howard, Olympic tickets, are they a special class that are. Have a heavy following? They do. And very focused collectors. They collect only Olympic tickets and they're very collectible. Of course, like David said, you know, the Miracle on Ice or the Black Power Salute or Nadia Comanich getting the first perfect 10 in the Olympic Games. Incredibly collectible. A Disneyland pass. I've seen. I've seen press about these before. This is from the. The op. The Invitational Press Review. So basically a sneak peek at Disneyland before it opened to the public. That's what that is. Yep. It's a great one. Elvis's last live performance. We have. We have this one here and this one here. What's kind of neat is that the rip goes in different. Or is this the same ticket? Ticket. I just. I think I accidentally sent it to you twice. This is the same ticket, but this is final performance before he passed. It is. It's really clickable. And if you see mine here, you see how it's ripped, David. It says elv. If your actual rip said Elvis, it would probably be more desirable or worth more in the ticket world. Yep. Very cool. Very cool. Kobe Bryant's no Flinch game. So that's like a moment game. Michael Jackson's hair on fire a moment. I would. I would call that Ozzy bites head off a bat. I mean, that's just maybe the most famous concert of all time behind a couple like Woodstock and like, we are the world. Rocky 4. Rocky Balboa versus Ivan Drago. I've heard of this one before. This is for, like. Is this for, like, extras, or was this a. A prop? It was for extras. So people who watched that final scene where Rocky fights Drago, that was actually a ticketed event in an arena in Canada, Jeremy. And people got tickets to go. I think they were also allowed to get a soda and, you know, a hot dog as part of the ticket. And, yeah, you got to be part of the movie. The. My only thing is that happened at 8am So I would not have been able to get there on time. Nolan Ryan fights Robin Ventura. That's pretty cool. And that's the end of it. Those are the ones that you sent over for us to look at. So, David, go ahead. And Leighton, if you have any questions, we'll go to you after. After. David. When it comes to tickets, fellas. Go ahead, David. So I just wanted to tell Howard, you know, tickets do mean a lot to me. And actually, there is a ticket that is literally my most prized possession that is ahead of every baseball card, and that is this Killers concert, which was the first date I ever had with my wife 13 years ago. Right. And I actually, from one of our family members to show about how important tickets are, they ended up getting this made for us on our year anniversary, which is. Oh, wow. It's the mat. When you walk into my house. It's the ticket stub of our first date. It's counterfeit. It's counterfeit. Right there. That's a fake. I look at a ticket stub every time I enter my house. Howard. So you should be impressed with that. Very. That's so cool, David. Especially the first concert you went to with your wife. And for those that don't know, David's wife worked in concerts, so they got to go to a lot of concerts together. Leighton, do you have any questions, comments on tickets before we go through our comments from the chat and then move along? Anything from you, Leighton? Yes, well, I'm definitely bidding on the Ultimate Warrior ticket. He was my guy growing up. My brother was not allowed to be Ultimate Warrior. He could be anyone else, including Hulk Hogan, but I was Ultimate Warrior. And my second question is. But I think I know the answer. So I bought this because it means a lot to me, you know, from being a Yankee fan as a kid. It's, you know, from the Jeffrey Mayer game when, you know, Derek Jeter hit the supposed home run. So I'm curious because Jeter charges a lot, obviously, for his signature. Now, do you think that that ticket's worth getting signed 100%? Leighton? I think every ticket's worth getting signed. Even if it's Derek Jeter, who charges $500,000,000 for it. I think that's a great ticket. I remember it like it was yesterday. And I actually have that ticket in my collection. I actually have a full ticket and. And I actually paid to have Derek Jeter sign it. So if I did it for me, my advice to other collectors would be the same. Absolutely. Get it signed, in my opinion. Thanks, Leighton. Okay. Couple comments that. Well, a few that came in during the discussion. TKD7 from. From your ticket community, I must think says Stub Love Rules. That is Howard's podcast. Charles says paper tickets are a lost art form due the digital age. It's really sad. Agreed. Michael Raider said, too bad most tickets today are all digital. The card carousel tickets are the vinyl album covers to sports. Some tickets have amazing artwork and tell a story. I think that's a great comment. Vintage card collector says, how's the ticket market going to sustain with nothing new to collect? Howard, just touch on that really quick. How will it sustain with nothing new to collect really coming out? Yeah. You know, I'll tell you this. There is a big movement now for teams to start printing tickets and a lot of teams have actually started doing that. So you can now go to a lot of teams and they'll charge you five or ten dollars and they'll print your ticket for you because people want to have a collectible. Maybe, you know, the first time, like David, the first time I took my wife to a game or My girlfriend or I went with my grandfather. So people want to take something home with them, and the teams are realizing that. So there are things. It's all different. To me, that's. That's just a totally different type of ticket. But not to say they won't be collectible, but it's like. It's like. It's like organic scarcity versus manufactured scarcity. That's what that is. It's like print to order sort of thing. B. Regan, what's the deal with the club? Sports Card Clubhouse is a separate YouTube channel, and I, along with the Sports Cards Live crew, are creating exclusive content, one show a week called the Hangover over there. Check it out. Charles says season ticket holders can still get paper tickets occasionally. Luke Browning asks about error tickets. Just touch on error tickets. Really brief. Howard. Yeah, I don't really know what it means. I mean, if something was printed on the wrong ticket stock, it could be more collectible. You know, it's kind of like David's ghost 1948 Joe DiMaggio or something like that. He's talking about. The game was canceled. It wasn't played on. On 9 11, but 914 instead. Dead collector Charles says I'd love a ticket to Kobe's last game. Skeppy says holding a great ticket opens up a mini portal back in time. That ticket that was there, it holds an energy from. I love the use of the word energy in Skeppy's comment there. Vintage card says Jackie's debut ticket. It's pop 14. Cost hundreds of dollars. Hundreds of thousands of dollars. Unrealistic for most collectors. Eric wants to know what the holy grail ticket stubs were. We kind of talked about that earlier. Orlando probably has over 100 tickets to events he attended. Just like. Just like David does. Luke Browning, does seat location make a difference? We got to touch on this. The seat location make a difference. It actually could. You know, if it's a floor ticket or if it's a courtside ticket. The other thing, too. Just like cards, you know, if you have a numbered card and it's a 24 or it's an 8 and it's a Kobe Bryant ticket. Kobe Bryant card. People will want the 8 of 25 or the 24 of 25. If the seat number is 24. If the row is 8, it's collectible. More collectible for those reasons. So again, similarities. Absolutely. Hello to found treasures. TKD said if you want to stop an athlete in their tracks, show them a ticket to their first game, jaws will drop. Cards don't do that. That's so cool. He also says ticket collectors have always been eye appeal collectors. Very cool. He also says there are still old time ticket collectors that have extensive unslabbed collections. Chris said, wait a minute, Jeremy, why can't somebody get one through a. Through the mail scenario that I just said that there's no thing is pack pulled. I didn't touch on through the mail. I'm sure they could. And Jesse says there's a dealer at the shows here in Calgary who has a cash's clay Joe Fraser ticket from the Montreal Forum. Jesse. I've asked him about that before. It's like a remake or something. It's actually not original to the event. All right, guys. Well, listen, Howard, this has been great, man. Great information. Great. Just I. I've been entertained this whole time. David's nodding. Leighton enjoyed it. I think it's real. I think it's a great topic. It's a. It's sort of like, it's like a parallel type of, uh, collectible to cards or just, you know, so sort of. It's one of those things that it's not exactly the same, but there's going to be crossover, there's going to be interest. It's. It's ephemera, it's. We're still collecting paper. It fits in a slab. That's pretty cool. So I think it's great. Good luck with the. Good luck with your podcast Stublov Live. Good luck with the launch of Front Row Auctions. First auction in September, running September through October. And yeah, and you're on Instagram as well. So. Thank you, Howard, for joining Sports Cards Live. Jeremy, it was an honor and a privilege. You're so great for the community. I was really so thankful that you had me on. David, keep doing what you're doing. I'm telling you, you're the, you're the superstar in the making. And I love Leighton. Leighton's been on my show before. He's just great with everything that he does. And I'm a big fan of Just Collect. So thanks for having me on, guys. Absolutely. All right, everybody. Thank you. Howard Citron, good luck. We'll see you soon. We'll see at the now, are you gonna be the national this summer? Absolutely. 1 miss it. Make sure if you see me because I'm tall and bald, flag me down. Say hello. I will. Thank you. Take care, Howard. Bye. Bye. All right. All right, guys, that was great. Thanks to Howard for joining us. Leighton, thanks for, for sticking it out. I know Howard Wanted to say hi to you. So it's, it's great to have you here, David. That was awesome. Thanks for your input there. And we're going to go on to talk to Leighton a bit about various things. But first of all, Leighton, before we, we get into, I think we were going to talk about psa, their recent announcement and how that impacts dealers and vendors and guys like you that do this for a living, that have cards going through the bulk service there, which is now suspended, paused for however long until they get through their millions and millions of backlog. Anything else going on in the world of Leighton, just collect that you want to let people know of shows you might have been at today, I don't know before we get into the PSA business. Well, I'm just happy to be here. It was fun to talk about tickets. I'm excited for catching the first episode of the Hangover because I've not caught it yet. So it's on my list of things to do this week, so it should be a fun week. There's two of them now for you to check out. Excellent. There's two of them to check out. And for everybody listening, Leighton and I will be recording the, the next episode of Vintage Spotlight and we are going to be recording that, I believe on Tuesday. That should drop on Friday. And there may be another announcement coming out with respect to the Vintage Spotlight podcast as well. So. Well, there will be another announcement coming out with respect to the Vintage Spotlight podcast, but for now, the next episode will be dropping next week we're going to do round two of the draft. If you caught up the first episode or the, the last episode of In Spotlight, Leighton and I drafted our, our top five favorite non rookie cards from the beginning of time until 1953. We're going 1954 through 1988 or 89. We're going to have that next week, so that'll be dropping. Check that out when it does. All right, Leighton, psa, you know, has created what I think a lot of people are considering to be a bit of a liquidity crunch. They're, they're handcuffing some of the hobby. Are you at just collecting what you do? You're a professional card dealer, you have a storefront, you have all sorts of different businesses within the hobby. How does it affect you? What are your, what were your initial thoughts and where, where are your thoughts now when it comes to PSA closing down several of their service levels until they get caught up? When I first heard I was disappointed. I was disappointed. Excuse Me, for all of us. It means different things to all of us. But I realized that just because it might affect you differently than me doesn't mean that I don't feel that. I don't mean the financial impact. I mean, just like, how do we all start here, right? I didn't start collecting cards or playing baseball, although I wanted to play pro, to do it seriously, it was because I loved it. And so there are many people, especially in my town where my store is in Summit, New Jersey. I mean, there are friends of mine, like their son Jed, who doesn't know what he's going to do about submitting his cards. And so I explain to his mother through text that she'll be able to still submit cards to psa. Yes, it'll be more expensive, but there's other companies. And of course, her next question is, they're very smart people. She's like, are they just as good? And I said, what does that mean? You know, I said, do you want his card protected? Yes, the plastic is just as good. Do I think it's going to sell for more? It probably won't do. I think you'll have it before. Back. Before your son gets married. I do. And by the way, Jed's very young. And so for me, right, it impacts me differently than it does that family. But make no mistake, it doesn't mean because I do it professionally that it's more important. It just. It's a very disappointing piece of news that the hobby's trying to process, and I would say that's a fair assessment of what's happening, you know, across the board for everybody. I think you're right. I think you make a great point that it impacts different people, different groups of people, depending on your activity and roles within the hobby. It's going to impact you differently. You spoke for yourself. I appreciate that. I'll speak for me. We'll hear from David in a moment. You know, I don't submit cards to psa. It's not that I never have. I don't make a habit of submitting cards to psa. I buy cards that are already graded by psa. So it doesn't bother me at all. I am unbothered. Com. I am completely unbothered by it to the point where, and just for effect, I'll say I don't care. Okay, but we're going to talk. I'll expand on that. David, what about you? Does it impact you? How do you feel about the change in accepting the change to their. To their business right now? When I first heard it, I was very disappointed. And then I actually had a conversation with Jeremy about it and kind of came back into reality a little bit. And I really think it affects dealers and it affects people who are buying and selling quickly a lot more than like an average collector. Like you said, that family member, I mean, why can't they wait six months? They really can't, right. If you're going to keep that card anyway. So I don't think that's the biggest deal. But I do feel bad for people that make a living in this job who supply the cards to us. And I'm wondering, Leighton, like at the national this year, do you think that a couple of things. Do you think that we're going to see a lot more raw? And do you have now when, like going forward, if somebody's showing you some cards that are not very high, expensive cards that are raw, are you, are you considering them, like, not buying them the same way as you would have two weeks ago? Excuse me. So when it comes to the National, I don't know if this is a hot take or not, but I don't really think you're going to see much change. I think that people are going to do what they're doing. Cards, to be clear, are still going to be coming back from PSA via bulk service. It's just that you cannot submit any. Any more cards. So I guess my point is, Dave, in regards to national, it might be a little bit more downstream before we see that bulk impact, because the bulk cards that you submit today, even if PSA was still taking them, which by the way, they are till Tuesday morning, I believe you wouldn't see that difference at the national anyway. So I think it'll be more downstream than that. And then in regards to your other question, let me something I shared briefly with Jeremy offline the other day. Let me expand upon this where it's impacted me already. So I was bidding on some auctions. What day is today? So Thursday. And it wasn't anything extensive and normally I wouldn't even have paused, but I noticed I was bidding on a number of different lots where there was absolutely better cards. And those better cards I may have been able to rationalize paying the $80 or so that service level to PSA. But when I noticed that a lot that I was bidding on was almost exclusively cards I would submit via bulk, I noticed I wasn't as aggressive. And the reason is, is because I already have a lot of cards to submit. And to be clear, when I can always Submit them. I don't mind when it's going like this, but when there's a pause, I need to be responsible. And so I just don't need more inventory that will not only sit on the shelf, but it actually may collect dust, literal dust, because they'll be in the card savers to be submitted. And to be clear, and I'm not trying to start anything here on a Saturday night, but I think we're going to see some change with sgc because what I told my team was, hey, we can still submit such and such type cards to SGC on the vintage side. And then they brought up, I thought appropriately, well, how long do you think it's going to be before we see changes there? And I said probably not long. So in general, David, to answer your question as succinctly as I can, it's really happening on the auction side. I don't know if it would happen so much on the purchasing of collection side. It's a little bit different. But you know, think about it, right? You can spend in an auction 1000, 10,000 or 100,000. I realize these are different denominations, but if you're going to be spending that money either as a dealer or as someone who just moonlights as, let's say a collector, but like you sometimes make money from these lots by submitting the cards via bulk and it helps offset your collecting, which I know is very popular in the vintage community and, and also in the modern community. I think it affects people like that as well. And so that's, that's what I think for those two questions. David. David, you have any response to any of that before I rant? I think that those are great responses for a man. And you're right, I didn't think about some of those items. I'm looking forward to your rant, Jeremy. Bring it on. It's not a rant. It's more of a hot take that I think people are going to hate. But I'm okay with that. You can, you can. I. I have a couple of takes here and it builds off the whole my attitude and no offense to Leighton in his business or anyone in business, when I say, not only do I say I don't care, I say, I say, if you, if this hurts your business, it's not PSA's fault, it's your fault. If you're an auction company and you are selling, you, you need to get more cards in PSA slabs. Now it's going to slow down your auction company. Too bad for you if You're a dealer and you're not going to get your cards back in time from psa. I don't feel sorry for you. You don't have them back in time for the National. I don't feel sorry for you. It's your fault for sending them to PSA in the first place. As soon as you any. I graduated from business school with honors over 29 years ago. I graduated. I still remember one of the lessons we learned. Don't be reliant on one customer. Don't be reliant on one vendor. They own you. The minute you're reliant on one vendor or one customer, they own you. They can, they can. Your business can fail at the turn of a dime if they make one decision. So if you are. If your whole business is relying on psa, you are bad at business and you need to find alternatives. Now then you say, yeah, but Jeremy, PSA is the leader. Everyone loves psa. Well, that's because you keep sending them your cards. That's because you keep doing that. They are not the only option out there. I know they're the only reasonable one for many people, but that's what the hobby is created. So you need to be more like Leighton. Have other. Have your business diversified, do other things in business to round that out. Because if you are only relying on PSA for your business, you are not a good business person. You might be great at buying ungraded cards. You might be great at filming yourself at card shows, doing deals. You might be great at picking out undervalued cards and slabs. You might be really good at all those things. But you, but you let a third party, you let them have the power to shut you down, to shut you down. And that's on you. You are not entitled to PSA being open all the time to take in your slabs. You're just not. Not only that, there's all the blame on Pokemon. Everyone's blaming Pokemon. It's Pokemon's fault. Why don't they have as much of a right to use PSA as, as PSA accepts them as customers? Why don't they have as much of a right to use PSA as we do? Psa, in my opinion, should just. It should be first in, first out. Whatever comes in is serviced and what. And then, and then it goes out. And if there's more p. If there's more Pokemon cards clogging it up. Maybe PSA isn't the right solution for sports card collectors anymore. Maybe grading isn't the right solution for sports card collectors anymore. Keep in mind I don't believe everything I'm saying right now. Like I, I, I believe some of it I, I believe. What I do believe is that you should not be reliant on one vendor. If you are, you're bad at business. You just are not. You're not bad at business. You're learning a lesson. You're learning the lesson that you did not plan properly, you did not diversify. You put the power of your business into somebody else's hands. They got overwhelmed, you didn't see it coming. Maybe you are bad at business. In that case, Pokemon customers, they have as much of a right to PSA's capacity as sports card collectors is now here's, here's a hot take you're going to hate. Vintage card collector here said. You know I was glad they shut off the value service. They have slowed the avalanche of modern junk cards clogging up the system. So much crap being sent in, guys the crap has as much of a right to get graded as the valuable stuff is. Who are you or you or you or you or me to tell somebody not to send in their cards for grading? If they want them graded, if they're willing to pay the fees, why can't they get their cards graded? If they're collectors, why can't they get their cards graded? If they're dealers, they have as much people sending in 25 cent base cards. If they're willing to pay the fee, they have as much of a right to PSA's capacity as you do sending in your twenty thousand dollar cards. That's just the way it goes. You have no, you have no entitlement to PSA's capacity. None. Zero. What you have entitlement to is to be shut off. They can shut you off at a moment's notice and if you can't handle that then you are too reliant on PSA and you are not reliant enough on your love of cards. Hot takes. I hope you guy, you know listen, it, it's just the way of the world. PSA is not in business, they are not in business to, and not to say they don't ever do this but they're not in business to pick and choose who gets their service. All they want is revenue. That's all they want is revenue. And, and, and pipeline. They have too much pipeline. Then we, then everybody says well why'd they get backed up? Why they get, shouldn't they grow more? Shouldn't they get more? Shouldn't they, shouldn't they grade faster and expand? It's hard to find people to grade cards for 20 bucks an hour. Should they pay more for that? Should they pay, instead of paying, whatever, 40 grand a year, should they be paying 150 grand a year? Sure. Price is going to go up. Price will go up to grade. There's all sorts of things here. Not only that, the faster they expand, the less accurate their grade, the less accurate and consistent their grading is, which means that you're buying cards that are not what they're. The grade is wrong. That's already happening. It's only going to exacerbate the faster and the more that they grow. So there's all sorts of competing things. The biggest problem here is that we, the hobby, are. Are too reliant on psa. We've made them. We've made them the God of the hobby. PSA is your God. You may not have a religion, but for many of you, listening, watching, PSA is your God. And you should pray to them because you basically do. You basically pray to them. There are, I don't know, there's a hundred gods out there for religions at psa. They are your God. No, they're your daddy. Like Pedro would say, they're your daddy. I was waiting for you to say that. They're more than your. Yeah, Leighton, but you can go get a job, right? No. With psa, there are businesses that rely. And now these businesses are. They're so mad at PSA for closing down. I'm not gonna have my cards back for National. Too bad. Too bad for you. That's on you. That's not on psa. They don't owe you anything. They don't. If you don't know that their turnaround times published are a joke anyway, and they can't meet them, that's on you. Now, if you're just this little. This new collector who decides to get a card, a card graded, and you sent it in, and you don't know any of the history of how they meet, meet or don't meet their turnaround times, well, then I feel sorry for you. I do. But if you're anyone who has any experience on this hobby and you didn't see this coming, and you're still sending cards, them because you need them for the next show that you're going to be vending at whatever legendary dealer you are, that's on you. That is on you. That is not on psa. And I'm. I'm. I'm not sitting here defending psa. I I criticize them as much as anybody for all, all of their faults and deficiencies and inabilities. I do. But I'm a realist. I like to be. I'm a pragmatic person. And at the end of the day, you don't have a right to them being open for business 24. 7. I go to a restaurant and they sold out a steak that night. I'm not freaking protesting with picket signs outside the restaurant saying, no, they sold out of their steak. I can't have my steak medium. It's my birthday. I can't have my favorite steak on my birthday. Shut up. Come on. Who do you think you're. What? Do you think you're entitled to steak on your birthday because it's your birthday? No, you are not entitled. Get over it. Get over it. Or don't, because it's going to be good clickbait. You're going to get lots of great video and clicks and for the people putting out and listen, I've, I've, I. I went through my subscriptions on you on YouTube today, yesterday, the day before. It's all PSA thumbnails. I haven't watched a single one of them. Why? Because I know it's all the same thing. I know it's reported and then I see comments. I saw one comment on one of the videos. Someone said, oh, it's. This is old news. It's all copycat content. No, it isn't. Every content creator is going to talk about. It's on our thumbnail tonight. Every content creator is talking about. And they have a right to. No one has a right to tell somebody not to talk about it. Don't watch their channel, don't watch their YouTube video if you don't want to. Just because I didn't watch it doesn't mean I think they shouldn't have put it out there. It's just like, I don't care. I know what the deal is. The deal is they've done it. It's not the first time that they've done it. It's not the first time that PSA has had to close down to catch up. They're having to catch up because too many people are sending too many cards because that's where they want to send their cards. Like we, the hobby, did this to themselves. PSA is trying. You don't think PSA wants to meet every single obligation and commitment that they make? You don't think that they want to grade every single card coming their way and charge for them and push them Out. Get them in and out as quick as possible. Of course they do, but they can't be. They. They just can't do it because the hobby is too reliant on them, and the hobby is not willing to work with and prop up any other company right now, real. In a. In a meaningful and material way. And if they are, chances are PSA's parent company already owns them anyway, and they're recruiting graders from one company to the other. So is this opportunity for other companies? I don't know. Even tag closed down. They're too busy. This is a systemic problem. This isn't just psa, by the way. They're all backed up except for NBA. I saw Mike Baker. Authentic. I saw him say, we're open for business. So they're open for this. Might be. They might be the only ones who can capitalize because everyone else is backed up and can't take capacity. So that's my rant. I cannot wait to look at the comments here and see who agrees with me and who doesn't. I'm sure there's. I'm sure it's going in all directions, but. Okay, I'm gonna stop now. I don't know how long that was, but that was. That was a while I got. Wasn't long enough. I want you to keep the whole time. I can't wait to watch the first two episodes of the Hangover. Man, this is awesome. Well, before we bring Josh and Joe on to the screen with us, I want to go to you guys and just get your. Your thoughts on my. On my. My rant there. And I. I say rap, but, like, I. I'm just so sick of the entitlement out there that you're entitled to their capacity. Your cards are better than someone else's because they're worth more. So you're entitled to send in a card, but Pokemon and base card collectors are not. Are not able to shut up. Like, come on, what makes you better than that customer who wants their. If they want their card graded, they're entitled to submit their cards into psa. PSA raises prices to slow down the trickle to catch up. They can do that now. They just shut it off because they're getting too many cards, but that's. That. That. Okay, do you guys want to respond? David Leighton, who wants to. Leighton, I think you're ready to go. Sure. Yes. Well, I'm getting up early tomorrow, so I'd like to comment, but I'll be brief. I thought that was fantastic. You deserve some sort of Emmy in The. In the sports card podcasting space. You know, listen, the reality of it is it'll be a lesson for some. I think you touched upon this for the folks that are a little bit newer, probably feel the most for them. But I'll leave you with this thought. We've talked about this before. So have others. It really seems like an opportune time for a grading school. It's obvious that if you could somehow train dozens or hundreds of people, you could probably sell them in terms of their contracts, you could probably make a deal with PSA and they'd be happy to. I'm really surprised it's not happened yet at scale because it seems as though we've been through this before and yet we're doing it again. And we'll probably do it in the future if the. If the industry continues to grow as much as it has been in the last few years. But, man, that was an incredible. An incredible rant there. I'm gonna stick around for what David has to say, and then I gotta run. But thanks for having me on, Jeremy, as always. Absolutely. Leighton, always love having you. David, your thoughts? I just love you. Jeremy Lee. That was amazing. But we need something better, right? We just need something better than what we have, and we don't have it. And that's why it's frustrating. And it's frustrating for. For a lot of us, everybody except for Jeremy Lee. But, you know, what he's saying is just. It's totally true. We are just. It is our fault that we rely on PSA as much as we do for those that. That do. And we need something better, and there will be something someday that is better than what we have. And I look forward to when that happens. And it's just hard to fathom what that could be at this point because they have such a control over us. But these are the lessons. We learn to know that we need something better than what we have. All right, well, I appreciate the comments back, you guys, and Leighton, thank you. We'll let you go get to sleep. You have an early day. We'll bring on Josh and Joe and we'll go to some comments as well. So thank you. Leighton. Good to see you, buddy. 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