Latent Taste Activated + Collecting Psychology Gets Deep + The GOAT Safety Question

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Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage Match limited By state law Michael Jordan Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now Jeremy Lee in the building and every guest that you ever needed Sports cards after hours Keep the hobby heated Updates homie Talk like you never seen it Sports Cards Live and I could ever beat it Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host, Jeremy Lee. Joe, I've been talking about this and Chris, I assume you heard this phrase. I just brought up latent taste where we are open to new things as Joe. Let's go back to Joe, then we'll go to Chris. No, I love it. Jaylee. I think having observed a few of your, you know, latent taste moments, you know, going down rabbit holes like the, like the vintage mem or you know, mid Modern vintage mem. That, that sort of, you know, tickled your fancy there at the West Coast Card show. And that's exciting. Like it's exciting to sample and, or take a few steps into certain areas that maybe are somewhat new and they can actually help you sort of. Even if you don't go super deep, they can inform your other areas of taste. Right. Like there's this kind of way that our influences start to influence the other areas of our, of our collecting. And I think it's great that you're not constrained to that. And I'm certainly not constrained. I mean, I probably should be a little more constrained from time to time because I do get enchanted with some new possibility. You know, I was on the verge of buying a, a, a, you know, Blackbeard card at one point with, you know, our, our friends Greg's influence to some degree. I mean, just. Just seen. That was a beautiful card. So, yeah, I, I don't want to be confined and I'm probably susceptible to some degree to external forces, but I also know that sometimes things just make sense to me when I. When I see and. Or have information and, you know, it's. It's a combination. All. All of the above. Pretty much all of the above. Absolutely. And, you know, just like we can be swayed by other people collecting and I, again, I love when that happens. I love when I'm swayed by someone else's show and tell. I'm like, wow, maybe that's for me. But just as often I see people collecting things and showing them, like, nope, not for me. Don't like it, not interested at all. That happens way more. Which is maybe why I'm almost waiting for somebody to show me something that gets me excited, gets the. The juices flowing. The hobby, the card juices flowing again. So. Yeah, well, I agree. I like how you, how you put that, Joe. Before we go to Chris, because he's still, he's still processing, I'm gonna read a couple of comments. First, I want to say hi to Tim. Giants fan. Had me on his show not too long ago. Big Giants fan, Tim. Hope you are. Well, but then, Jim, define sportive. Says the. The sports card clubhouse breaking news is one of those events. We'll all remember where we were when the news broke. Yeah, not so sure about that. And double O hard guy, my guy Jesse says that Jeremy has opened his eyes to non rookie cards. He's calling it the non rookie revelation. I'm loving the non rookie revelation, Jesse. Absolutely. Bob Boozle says, don't put Jeremy in a box, bro. No, please do not. Or. Or a corner. Don't put me in a corner either. Okay. Oh, before we go to Chris, Michael Raider says you create a connection to the content creators you like to watch or listen to, and those people naturally influence you through stories and showing cool cards. Absolutely nothing. Nothing wrong with it, I don't think at all. Okay, Chris, let's get your first, you know, substantive comments of the episode. All right, well, let's not set the bar too high, but we'll give it a try. So latent taste. Okay. What does that say? What does that say? Jeremy v. Friends. Skeppy was asking what T shirt I was wearing today, so I was just showing them. It's the midlife cards. It's not latent taste. It's latent taste. Late. Not. Not. Sheldon. No, no. Late, Latent. As in undiscovered, as in, you know, the seed that is yet to sprout. Although Leighton Sheldon has great taste. That's a whole other episode we could do. That's a whole series. Okay. All right, so latent taste. All right, so I had. I had a clarifying question. Does that mean that you heard of this collecting lane? Other times, maybe it was in your peripheral, but it just didn't catch you or you didn't gravitate to it at that moment. And then later, something sort of clicked when it got presented to you, and then it was. It was just like a very timely, fortuitous moment. What's the word that starts with an S that, like, describes when everything happens perfectly? Serendipity. Serendipitous. So what is it? Was it a serendipitous moment? No. Or. Or Jeremy or. Or. Or is it that you had never been exposed to this lane of collecting before, and then when you finally were for the first time, it was love at first sight? Is that latent taste? And Brett. Brett. Sorry, Chris. It could be either. It could be either or both. The way I'm describing latent taste is that their latent taste, to me, is something that I don't know I'm gonna like until I see it, either for the first time or again, maybe through a different lens of maybe. It's. I'm a different mood, a different mindset, and I see them. I've been aware of. Of memorabilia cards of vintage players. Vintage memorabilia cards. Basically, like vintage player memorabilia cards from the year, say around 2000. I've been aware that these have existed for 25 years. I just never dove in until I saw a display of them. The west coast card show. And my latent taste was awoken. Something about that display so screamed at me and made me see it, and. And it. And it made my latent taste. What's the opposite of latent? It came about. So whether I had seen it before or not isn't really the. The issue. It's taste that you are just. Whenever you see it, you're now ready to pounce and. And go jump into that rabbit hole. Okay, so not to beat this up too much. That is what we do here, though. To Brett, if you had stumbled into this exact lane in the exact same setting, with the exact same dealer, the exact same context, but it was 10 years ago, do you think your response to that would have been the same? Or maybe would you have not been as open to it at that? Or maybe not. You would not. Has Liked it as much, perhaps at that time. Absolutely. 100 possible. That goes into the evolution of, of, of me as a collector. I won't say all collectors, but me and many others, I'm sure, where you're just not ready for it at that time. You're not, you know, just like, Just like when you're looking for love, you know, you're. You might not be ready for it when it comes to, you know, two people. The timing is just wrong sort of thing. The timing was wrong for me in vintage memorabilia cards in the year 2005, but in 2026, the timing was right for whatever reason. Reason. So I hope that sort of answers your as. I think you're trying to kind of form some sort of path to go down here. Yeah, yeah, no, totally. I mean, this, this is. It's. It's as interesting to me. I, I agree. I think you've put your finger on a really interesting part of collecting psychology. But what's as. As equally interesting is also what enables that to be able to happen in the first place. And I think part of that is, is this. All right, I'm going to tie together two different ideas that have been percolated in the show. One, when you were talking to, you were talking with Joan, you were talking with Brett, and sort of the idea of influence was coming up and sort of. Jeremy, I love how you zag on the influence topic and you're like, hey, guys, I like to take good ideas from other people. When what. In what other walk of life is it ever harmful to take a good idea from somebody else? I think that's kind of like a general philosophy that you have that works in the hobby context. It works in many contexts. And so you even alluded to at the very outset of the show, you're kind of like, hey, like, if we can do a lot of good research now and that saves people time in the future, that'd be great. Or there's the science cliche of standing on the shoulders of giants and so on and so on. Right. And so I like your spin on that. And I actually think that it can be so helpful to actually call out when somebody is inspiring us or planting a seed or giving us some direction. And Brett actually had a. Had a tangent on the most recent football card podcast where he sort of shouts out a collector who. His Instagram handle is Bye Bye Baby Cards, and his name is Andy, and many of us know him. And Andy is a trailblazer of his own. And I've taken. And so following your Lead, I'd like to say that I've taken inspiration from him to identify new collecting lanes in the very recent past. And then now I'm going to tie that. And in particular, that lane is one of ones from 90s football products, which is just such an interesting rabbit hole that I've been going down for the last week or so. And, and I've learned a lot from him and I've taken inspiration from him and I've been chatting a lot with him and a few other guys about that. So I want to tie that idea into this idea of latent taste or latent discovery or latent taste or something. Just like when you see something, it makes sense and get to the mechanism. And I think the mechanism of why that works is that, like, I'll give you my personal example. I would fly by these cards at a card show that now I know all about these cards from studying them for a week. I, A month ago I would just walk right by them at a card show and been none the wiser. Like, Collector's Edge, what is this? You know, or you know, the score cards from 90s football and stuff. Like, because I. My 90s knowledge is centered on Michael Jordan collecting. Collector's Edge didn't have an NBA license in the 90s, so I didn't know. I. This is my first exposure to products from that brand period. But all of a sudden, because I've sort of gone down the rabbit hole of learning about it, then I go back to ebay or go back to the card show and I go and I scroll the same exact display cases or the same exact listings, and all of a sudden they mean something to me. All of a sudden they're calling out to me. All of a sudden there's a familiarity that wasn't there before, and now I'm really excited about something. Or I'll give another example. Today I was browsing the page of a different great collector, and I go back and I browse this guy's page every few months and every time a different card or a different set of cards jumps out to me, it's like I didn't even know that was there. And even though I know that his page hasn't changed, it's been the same post for the, for years. But I'll scroll through it and because of new research that I'm doing or a new era that I'm focusing on, all of a sudden I'm like, whoa, that card jumps out to me. I didn't even know he had that card. How special is that? So I think I want to get to the mechanism of latent taste and see what you think about this, Jeremy. I think there has to be some sort of familiarity bread that creates the fertile soil that opens our mind and prepares our mind to accept seeing something new and exciting. But there has to be seeds planted first. And taking good ideas from fellow collectors is one way to do that. Yeah, I, I think like, I think what you're getting at is, is that, and like you said, you, you notice these things on. You go to somebody's page, you see these cards, but you don't see them. And then, and then you go, three months later, you see them and you're interested because what has changed? You talk about this, the fertile soil kind of analogy you made. I think what's changed is your lens. You're. You've taken off the old pair of glasses, you put on a new pair of glasses that allow you. Because you, you've changed. You've sparked new interest in your own collecting style that have caused you to see that differently. Happens all the time to, To, I think, to many people. Happens to me all the time. I never cared about Pacific Patch cards that were the Pacific hog, the, sorry, the Pacific card brand that existed in like the late, late 90s, early 2000s. I ignored that, that manufacturer for many, many years. Now I don't. Now I'm kind of all about it. And I went down that lane when I saw a collection of them, actually acquired a collection of them. I'm. I'm gonna start shopping from my own inventory. And I did. And I love it. And I'm still adding, you go back like 15 years earlier. I might not have, no, I might not have even acquired the collection, but I did. And I think, I think it, you know, quite simply, the lens through which you are looking has changed. You haven't changed, Chris. You're still open minded and inquisitive. But now you're wearing a different set of glasses and you're seeing them differently or even you're picking them up for the first time. You're, you're not only like, you're receiving that signal from that page and it's enabling you to then jump into that rabbit hole a little bit. So that's how I kind of respond to what you just said. Before we continue, let's welcome Joshua Adams back to the show. I brought him on very clandestinely, very quietly. Josh, hello. Hi, guys. Good evening. Nice to see you all. Nice to see you too. Our friend. Welcome, welcome. So before we Go back to you, Chris. Get Joe's thoughts. I'm gonna quickly read two comments that I think we could both maybe incorporate in the next or at least consider as we continue this discussion. Jim, define sports says, it's like tasting something new. You can't know what you don't know until you are aware. Agreed. Agreed. Skeppy then says, can the latent taste. Taste end up being a sour tasting journey into the rabbit hole? Can latent taste be a compromise to a taste you can't afford? How long does a new taste last before you know it isn't real? Yeah, great. I think that's a great question and I think the proof's in the pudding. Like, I'm still very excited about my two lanes that I discovered my taste for in the past, you know, 10 months. One being Pacific hockey patches, one being baseball, vintage baseball memorabilia, cards. So I'm still very. And it's not just baseball. I'm doing basketball and football too. I'm loving this stuff right now. So. But, but Skeppy's question or his comment here is one where. Yeah, be careful. Some. I think the, I think the way to handle that is take that like 24 hour pause before you really start diving in with your money and, and much of your time. You know, if you wait a couple days before you buy it, are you still going to want it in a couple of days? I would just recommend that sort of process to Skeppy and anybody else before you dive right in. Because you could dive right in and realize a few days later, ah, I was wearing those glasses, but they were a little fuzzy, they were a little foggy, and I wasn't really seeing myself properly either. You know, call it like the, the beer bottle. What. I forget what they call them at the bar. That whole thing about going to the. Anyway, yeah, so that's where I'm at. We're gonna bring David Chase on as well. But before we do, I want to go around the horn on this topic and then we'll bring David on. So who's. Who's gonna go first here? I. Joe. Joe. Okay. Yeah. I mean, real quick, I just think that your particular interest in, in the, you know, early 2000s MEM cards, if I had to sort of, you know, probe into what the architecture or the, the, you know, maybe the ex. The expressed desire that you had. It's like we've been seeing, you know, the jackies and, and the satchels. The. All these cards just go off the hook with some of their, their values and so then kind of stepping back over there and looking at, you know, game used mem of these guys that are coming from the 40s and the 50s, hugely important. Like to me it made all the sense in the world. And so some of it is, is the context of the hobby's evolution, like where things are going and then finding the kind of auxiliary or adjacent categories that may be a little like now in high, like, oh, now we can look at this and say, you know, for hoes, you know, like, oh, I'm, I'm, I'm really into Jordan 101s. What other one of ones are out there? Oh, what do you know? You know, and you start to compare the value proposition for what you're doing or what you've been doing or what you'd like to do and you see this other lane and it's just like it's a no brainer almost. It's like, of course I would, I would, you know, go push, push in a little bit and, and, and dabble, if not fully dive in. Yeah, I think that's good advice right there. Josh, you got any thoughts on this topic please? I'm a little confused as to what exactly we're talking about here. So what's the, like, what's the, what's the point I guess is my, is my first question. Yeah, that's fair. You kind of came in, in, in the middle of it. So that's a fair, fair position to have right now. And yeah, I don't even know where we started this one at. Let's go to Chris for a moment. Let's go to Chris to get follow up to all this. David, are you good to join us on the screen? He is. So we'll bring David on. He's been listening astutely. So maybe, maybe David could even steer us back to where we started. But let's go to, let's go. Welcome back, David, by the way. Thank you. Chris, are you good to jump back in? Yeah, I have two more questions and they're related. I'm just going to ask both and then Jeremy, I want to kick them to you, but also to the panel. So the first question is when latent taste is activated, does it ever put for you? I mean this will probably be different for everybody, but does it ever push the other lanes that you collect to the background a little bit? Okay. Does, does it do it a little bit? Does it do it a lot? Does it ever even push the other lanes completely out of the picture? And then my second question, which is which is related, is I'm gonna bring. I think I'm gonna debut. I think I'm gonna add a new word to the sports cards live Rolodex. I think maybe Joe's used this word before. Is latent taste? Teleological? And what I mean by that is, does latent taste mean that if I suddenly discover something and it really calls out to me and speaks to me and commands my attention, is that because I've become a better collector? Is it because I've evolved as a collector? Is it because I've. My knowledge has expanded, my palette has been further refined? And so necessarily, the older things that I collected are just maybe prior, more simple, more primitive versions of my collecting self? And am I ultimately, as a collector, continuously gathering new information, improving my tastes, and evolving to some final perfect version of a collector? Like, am I on a course to eventually become this perfect collector? And each time something really calls out to me, a new lane, a new type of card, is it activating in me another level of myself as a collector? So two questions there, Jeremy, and I want to kick that right to you. That is such. So heavy, Chris. So heavy. So the first one does, can a can a latent taste that has been awoken drive out an existing lane that you're in or. Or kind of push it off, you know, off an exit of the. From the highway, maybe to be brought back on later on, I suppose. And, you know, I can only really speak to my own experience on that. And, you know, know I love collecting vintage baseball. I love collecting auto hockey, auto patches. I'm still hyper focused on both of those lanes, even though I've added two new lanes that were. That. That were in my latent taste arsenal or, you know, buried in there, but didn't. Didn't wake up until they did. And so I think for me, it. They haven't pushed out anything else. I have, you know, it's kind of like friends I have. I can. I'm never at my maximum for friends. You know, I can have more friends. I can add more friends to my life. That's Josh. Josh is. That's just Josh. I'm just a friendly guy, buddy. That's just. That's just how I am. All right? I can have more friends all the time. I think I could. I think I'm similar with cards. As long as my budget can allow for it, I can like many different car. And I do. I often say I collect from 1888 to 2026, all sports, non sporting. I like a lot of cards to my wallets dismay, unfortunately. So I don't know. The other thing I'll mention is that vintage hockey, you know, I've been a vintage hockey collector forever and since 1989 I got into vintage hockey. I'm at a point now where I'm kind of done. There's nothing I'm looking for, almost nothing I'm. I covet. I don't think there's a single vintage hockey card on my want list right now. So I don't know when this happened, but I hit that point where I just don't want to think about my clothes anymore. Like, give me something easy, something comfortable. But still looks like I tried even just a little bit. And that's been Quince for me. Guys. 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Head to quince.comsportscards for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. It's now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N c e.comsportscards for free shipping and 365 day returns quints.comsportscards it's not that I'm not focused on. I still enjoy the cards I have there. But that category is no longer taking up any of my budget or really my, my discovery time. So I had the room to add a couple of new lanes, I would say. And lucky for me I was able to discover them from a teleological perspective which I, I have looked up so I can understand it. And you did a pretty good job of explaining it. But the way the, the definition I'm looking at it says describes explanations or systems that are driven by purpose, goal or ultimate design rather than by cause and effect. And I don't even know if I understand that clearly right now without further sort of dumbing it down for me, Chris. So I think I actually need to kind of take a pass on that or at least maybe ask you to further clarify or just serve it up. Serve it up to me a bit differently, if you don't mind. Yes, especially in service of the great Mike Petty, who advises to drop the vernacular. And anytime Mike Petty gives advice, I listen. Let's, let's, let's make, let me do a better job of communicating what I'm trying to get at. There is. What I'm trying to get at is when we, when we move into another lane, is it a sideways step? You know, one day I'm here, the next day I'm over here, the next day I'm over here. I'm not getting better or advancing as a collector, necessarily. I'm just interested in something new for a little while. Or when we get into a new lane, is it a step forward and we leave behind us the other lanes? Now, the other lanes are something in the rear view. It's a more simple version of ourselves. And eventually I'm going to keep stepping and stepping and stepping until I can't step forward anymore. So whereas where you're stepping from side to side, you can always keep stepping from side to side. It's just, you know, you're never really moving forward, you're not moving back, you're just changing your point of view. Yeah, it's a constant evolution of curation and interest. I think it comes down to evolving as a person in the hobby, Chris. So, like, I am not, like, I'm always, I'm always doing a mental audit of my collection being, do I still love you? Do I still love you? Do I still love you? And, and as long as I do, I keep you. And many cards I own have, have survived that chopping block hundreds of times. They've, they've, they've survived for decades and remained in my collection because I'm not, they're not being replaced by the next shiny type of card I'm pursuing or chasing. So I think, I think it's a bit of a hybrid. I think it can go, I think sometimes it can replace because you might be tired of something. Maybe you didn't love it as much as you thought you did, or you just simply fell out of love with a certain sub PC, a certain lane you're in. So I don't think there's one answer to that question. I think it's going to depend on the collector and Even the various PCs within their overall collection that they have. How long they've been collecting them, how much do they love them, all these different sorts of things. So I. I think that answers your question. Yeah. Okay. I'd like to hear from some of the other people now if we can. So we've. We got. We got. We got Joe and Josh looking like they might fall asleep momentarily. David, you just. You're all good. David, you. I think you just put up your hand there. Do you want. Yeah, please jump in. Sure. So my latent taste has changed from the beginning also. I really went from just like you, Jeremy. Vintage baseball was kind of my. The groundwork for my collecting. I went very hard into vintage football and basketball for a while until I picked up a lot of those cards, which I didn't have as extensive of a list as it has been for baseball. So I was able to kind of conquer that list over a couple of years. And kind of like what you said, like with your vintage hockey, there's only a couple of cards left that I really want there, so it's allowed me to pass on, but it definitely took place and it was my number one priority for a while. After that, I kind of went into the more popular oddball sets that just kind of. I didn't know really about them back in the day. Right. I really only knew about Topps and Bowman and Play Ball and Gowdy. So when I learned about Dandies and Red Hearts and Wilson Franks, those also caught my attention. And then I was hyper focused on those, but I still always had the baseball vintage as my base. And then even later on, I kind of swerved to the pre war, partly because I felt like I needed to learn more about it. And the T206s. I went in, I ended up buying a few of those cards. I really liked a lot of them, but to be honest with you, it wasn't really my lane. And even though I tried it, I haven't felt the passion for it as much as I felt like I should. So I dipped my toe in, I tried it, I liked it, I swerved away and now I'm kind of starting to dip my toe into a lot more non sports vintage just to kind of. But I'm trying to figure out which way I want to go because I don't really care about political things, but I care about more pop culture things. So I'm just kind of trying to figure that out right now. And I'm Swerving, I'm going back, I'm going forth. But I always have my base as my vintage baseball because it's such an extensive amount of cards that me to go through where I don't feel like I'm like getting to an end as I am with some of the iconic, other versions of the lanes that I'm going through. I think what you're talking about is the process of discovery. You are trying things and realizing some are sticking and some aren't, and you continue with the ones that stick and you're moving on from the ones that don't. That is just discovery. That's being human, being a collector, being open minded, being willing to try new things. So I think what you said is, is a very natural evolution, David. And I, I feel like I've gone down that same path. You know, sometimes you want to try something too because you see other people doing it and you think, oh, maybe that, maybe that's the thing, maybe I'm missing something. I, you know, even, okay, here's a non card analogy. Wine, the beverage wine. Everybody I know seems to love wine. And they're all wine connoisseurs and they, they swirl it like this and they, you know, they, they do all these things with their, with their tongue for it. So I'm like, when I, I remember 20 years ago, I'm like, I guess I got to get into wine. I, I, you know, I want to be a part of the, I want to have my friend, I want to be a part of the conversation. Couldn't get into it. It's not my thing, you know, I just, I, I just couldn't get into it. I have nothing against people who drink wine, but it's just not for me. So I, I, I've moved on from that attempt to, But I know what you mean where sometimes you just want to try because maybe some of your friends or the people you respect, you adore, you follow, you like whatever it is, are doing it and maybe you want to try it. You know, I see some people, I see Laura brings up Meatloaf, the, the band Meatloaf. I mean, music's another area Chris can speak to music where, you know, I, everyone was into heavy metal when I was in grade seven in 1984. And it's like, you know, could I get into the heaviest of the heavy metal? Not really. I like Def Leppard back in the day and you know, Twisted Sister I could listen to. You know, we're not gonna take it over and pour some sugar on me. Over and over and over and over and over again. Love those songs. You know, you give it a try, you realize maybe it's not for you. You know, same thing happened to me with country. So I'm just saying we have to. Like someone said in the chat, you don't know you don't like it until you try it or at least give it a, you know, a bit of an effort. And. And then you're like, okay, no, I'm not gonna do that. And sometimes you. Sometimes you're doing that because you want to fit in. Sometimes you're doing that because you're genuinely curious. Whatever it is, doesn't matter. Just be. I would just say to me to. I say it to myself. Just be honest with yourself and. And don't. Don't try to do something that's not meant for you. David, you put up your finger. I want you to go, but go quick so we can get around the horn. I also just think that even the lanes that I swerved out of, like the T2O6s, I feel like it really fulfilled me still, because it allowed me to really understand other people's collections and their styles and what I really love about that set. There are really cool things about the set, even though it's not for me. So I just want to say that even though I think it really brings you further along the journey, when you do learn about these things, even if it's not a lane that you don't follow through with, it helps you at least eliminate and narrow your scope so you can have more focus for something else. At least let's get that one out of the way and try something different if we need to. Okay, Joe, you're off mute. The other fellows are on. Do you. Do you have any thoughts on this? And Josh will come to you. Hopefully you have more context now for the topic. I'm sorry for throwing that at you earlier. Let's go to Joe. Well, I think there were two questions posed, so I'll start with the first. Does. Does when the latent sense is ex. Taste is expressed or activated, does that push to the background some of your other collecting interests? And I would say for me, on a practical level, yes, mostly because, you know, of funds and capital and being able to put money. You only make so many deals in your ongoing flow of cash and deployment of your resources. So I don't know if it necessarily fundamentally changes anything. I mean, that's sort of what you were speaking to Jeremy of going back again and reviewing your collection with a Sort of rigorousness. Where do I love you still? Do I love you still? I do that as well. And sometimes the new activation does have some bearing on that, because if I like the new activation, the latent taste that's emerging so much, I might have to actually dip into some of the things. And, and so, ipso facto, that would be a moment where the, The. The old is supplanted by the new. And that's where, you know, we get into that acorn, into an oak idea. But moving to the next question, the, the. The teleological question, I'm, I'm split on that one. I, I kind of feel like it's probably the case that it, that it does shape you ultimately. I mean, we could say, yes, it's just a dabble here and a dabble there. But I don't know, guys. I'm almost 60, so, like, I'm getting to the point where what I'm doing now, that's, that's where I'm at. You know, it's not like a passing phase. It's kind of like the. Every day, every hour, every moment is the emerging of reality. And I, I don't have a whole lot of time to look back or even really look forward. So I would say yes to the teleological question, that it is essentially dictating where I'm going as a collector. It is forging new territory, it is expressing a new bent. It doesn't necessarily exclude the old, but it's certainly either broadening or in some way evolving the expression of my collecting sensibility. It's another great sort of angle to look at. It is where are we at not just in our hobby journey, but in our life's journey. And also mentally. Like, what do you have the capacity to do? Not, not just mentally and budgetarily, as, as you mentioned, of course. Like, I could. I love when I'm doing my. My fanatics collect weekly Sunday shows and the premiere show, and I'm like, I, I've said it several times like, sure Wish I had 100 grand to spend tonight, because I could do that no problem. I could. Never mind 100 grand. I could go half a Miller or a couple mil if I had the funds. I don't, so I can't. But boy, would I love to be able to do that every Sunday and just go, go to town. But that's not where I'm at in life. So you don't. You have to. That. We do have constraints in place and that's gonna. But it doesn't mean that you don't want to or that you wouldn't if you couldn't. So those are just constraints that we have that force us to really h. Put blinders on somewhat in many cases. So, Josh, do you want to jump in? Sure. I guess for Chris's first question. Yes, it would have to, right? You evolve as a collector. I mean, I just collect stuff I like. I don't really put too much thought into it. Like, this is cool. I like it. I like baseball history. I like hockey history. I like stuff in the 90s when I was a kid. So I buy it. And like, that's kind of. That's the accepted thought I put into collecting cards because I like them. Secondly, his second question, I guess, yes, you have to write it, put stuff to the side and. Because you said you only have that much money to spend on things, but yeah, I mean, I don't know. I just like collecting because it's fun and, you know, it evolves. Like, if I like. I liked vintage cars and like, well, you know, I'm sick of collecting run of the mill, 50s and 60s stuff because you can find a Mickey Mantle any day of the week. Like, okay, so I like finding, like, you know, Wilson. Wilson Franks, you know, red hearts, test strips, hires test strips, some other really rare cool things. Lake I think it's called Lakeside bank is a 1961 football set of the Cleveland Browns. That's pretty cool. So I just like stuff and, you know, just buy stuff I like. Yeah, that's a good way to do it. Buy stuff that you like. Sometimes we often come back to collect what you like and then that. But then in a Chris Hoage style way, it's like, well, why do we like what we like, you know? Or are you sure you like? I'm not saying Chris says that, but it's something that I could see him really diving into just out of it from his curious. The curious nature of his mind. Chris. Yeah, love the comments, Joe. I. I had other comments, but Joe actually said everything that I wanted to say. So kudos to Joe and then to Josh. Okay, so I love what Josh said. I think that's a very real point of view. I once on the crossover, many years ago, I. I said that I like the caveman style of collecting. You know, me c card. Me like card me buy card, and that's it. Okay. But I don't really do that. I don't do that one anymore, which it makes even more funny. But let me go there. A Skeppy sent a Comment that I just thought was so engaging, where he said, I get tired of lanes. And Jeremy, do you want to read that comment and I want to comment on it? Sure. He says, I get tired of lanes. It involves structure that feels more like a battle than enjoyment. I try to just let something happen. When I see a card I like. Why can't we just like stuff without analysis? And I mean, I just got to say because I, I, I, I see what he's saying. That's a style of collecting, but I don't, I don't agree with that. For me, it doesn't work for me. Why I like my cards to have company. I want, if I just have one card, it feels like a floater. It feels alone, it feels isolated, and I don't know why it belongs. I need my cards to belong to a collection within the collection. That's why, you know, when I, when I go get into vintage baseball memorabilia, cards, I don't want just one, I want a stack. That's how I enjoy cards. So Skeppy's comment, it must be a bit different because to me, sure, there's structure, it's direction more than structure. To me, there's no battle, it's all enjoyment. It does. But I, I can also, like he says it can just happen. When I see a card I like, I can add it to that collection. So there's no real, that I do just like stuff and there's really no analysis going on. So the comment, maybe I'm missing the point of the com or your angle on it, Chris, but lanes to me are what it's all about. I love lanes. Yeah, I love the, that's why I love the comment. The comment is very provocative. It's also coming from a great place, a great philosophical point of view. I actually liked the end of it, which is where skeptic says, why do we even need analysis at all? And I love it because it lets me do a little rant, a little riff. And I love the comments. I love all of skeptics comments. He's a real value add to any chat that he's in. And so it was so provocative. And I liked it because. Okay, so in the realm of philosophy, this will be very brief. There's something called the problem of global skepticism. A global skeptic is somebody who believes that knowledge is impossible. But if you believe that knowledge is impossible, then you can't actually believe that knowledge is impossible because believing knowledge is impossible is a, is, is a piece of knowledge, right? So it's self Refuting the problem of global skepticism. And here this is a relative of that because what Skeppy just offered was analysis. In order to opt out of analysis, he offered analysis. Analysis is sneaky. Once the bug of analysis has been contracted, the only way to opt out of it is just literally to not analyze. But if you analyze the analysis that somebody else is doing, even if the conclusion of it is we should analyze less, you're still analyzing. You still are actually. It's actually a self defeating proposition as well. That's. And, and I think that that caught me as a collector at some point and I just sort of gave in to the fact that all right, I did contract the virus of analyzing. I need now I need to keep going with it and keep analyzing things and analyzing and analyzing, analyzing and eventually I think it does lead to a good place. But it does, it does involve battles and it, and it isn't always sunshine and flowers. There are struggles that go with it too. But I like the struggles personally. The battles that you mention, I think can often just be which lane do I deploy capital into by. In terms of where or allocate budget Card budget. Do I go with a, a modern auto patch and hawker? Do I go for, for 2, 000 bucks or do I buy a nice 48 leaf musial, which I'd like to add for 2,000. But like that's the battle. It's choosing. It's really the battle's prioritization of hobby budget into what card you. And it could also be within the same set. Do I, do I go buy my, my 48 leaf Jackie or my 48 leaf satchel, which is the higher priority? I think we're always. If you're in a, if you're under a budget constraint, which all of us are except for a few people, you are always in a battle, never mind within the hobby. What about going on that vacation or buying that card? How many people have that battle? Probably more than we'll admit. Because you don't want to ever say the cards override a vacation. But I mean, I remember going through a phase of my life when I was single thinking to myself, I'm going to go on a vacation, great. But when I get back, I have nothing but the memory. I could have a card, you know, now I understand experiences and all that, but I had that mindset at one time where it's like, no, I want to buy cards because that's what I wanted. I don't need to explain it. That's what I wanted. So yeah, it is a. I like how you said it to Chris that, that Skeppy's comment there is a provocative comment and I think it's got merit. I think, I think there's some merit to it, but I don't think it's merit across the board. What is right for you as a, as a hobbyist, as a collector, and proceed accordingly and discover yourself through being open minded. That's advice I'm willing to give, you know, advice I'm not to get into. I forget where this was talked about last. Chris. Oh, we, I was here on Sports cards live. When is advice worth. When can we give advice? Solicited around. We had that whole conversation. That's a piece of advice I'm willing to share. If it doesn't resonate with you, that's fine. Please don't. Don't. It's not, it's not a directive, as most things I say aren't just real quick. Jay Lee the I mean, if you're collecting at a serious level, you're gathering information, you're researching you, it would be almost foolish not to like you. You want to know or understand what you're getting into. And then when you have information, like, what do you do with it? Like, you could not analyze it. You could try not to analyze it, but invariably humans are meaning making machines. Like we're going to make meaning of it. It's just kind of how we're wired. So I actually appreciate Skeppy's impulse to sort of stay pure, but I'm not sure. At least I guess I'm speaking out of my own experience. It would be very hard for me to pull it off. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Thank you, Joe. Chris, we're not, we cannot be done with that. But I wanted to do a couple of comments here quick. First, Chad Shipper, who I had the pleasure of dining with. With Joe. With. Sorry, with Josh as well. Joe as well. In the pan. Chris. We've all dined with Chad Chipper, but I just got to see him at the Toronto X. But anyway says always a great lineup to close out. Sel. Thank you, Chad. Cage says the Hobby has broken me mentally. You wouldn't know that from listening to the the Hobby with Cage daily podcast, which is in my rotation and it's been high quality for the past several months. So thank you not to talk about earlier. I just. Anyway, thank you, Cage. Midlife Greg says, hey, can we circle back to Jeremy's shirt? It is truly glorious. Greg Jayhawker says, collect what you like, but never Be embarrassed to pivot. I really. And then he says, don't box yourself in. I really like that comment. Don't be embarrassed to pivot. Like, really take that to heart. That. I think that's, I think that's good advice we get. Do you, do we like that advice, guys? Don't be embarrassed to pivot. Joe's snapping his fingers. Josh is giving a light nod. David is nodding. Chris is nodding and, and taking some notes. Okay, good. Thank you for those comments from Jayhawker Greg Cage. Oh, well, we got, we got David Spinrad, the rated rabbi in the. What does he say? He says discovery and focus are two wolves battling for my hobby soul. When I overfeed discovery, I can't achieve my collecting goals. When I say too focused, I miss out on the joys of exploration. There is a tension that I am sensing in this comment here. I think that's what he's referring to. He is that tension between two ways of approaching the hobby, two immediate type of paths you're gonna, you're gonna go down or a fork in the road. You have to choose a direction. And yeah, that's the battle. I think, I think he, he articulated that battle, that battle quite well there. We're getting a thumbs up from Joe on that. So, okay, lots going on for me right now as I'm running this, this show, guys. But is there any, is there any business left undone that we need to circle back to Chris's questions that he posed? Does anyone else have any thoughts on those? I think Joe, David, myself, Josh might have all responded to those. If we're done with that, then I want to move on to a topic that's on the, in the, in the title tonight, which is safe. Safe versus Bold Collecting is in the title. But it really comes down to does goat collecting? Jordan, Gretzky, Brady Mantle, all these guys. Is goat collecting equal to safe collecting? Is collecting goats always safe? Because you hear people say, you know, when you're not sure what to do, if you're tired of the prospects, you can always go to the goats. My thoughts have always been that most goats have cards that are blue chip. A52 tops. Mantle, if we can call Mental Goat, is a Blue Chip card. A Gretzky Rookie, a Blue Chip card. A Jordan Rookie, xrc, a blue Chip card. Most Mantle cards are blue chips. Is. I say that, but that's what this is about, is collecting goats insulating you from most of the risk of the hobby. That's a question I think that is worth asking. And, and, and Banting about here. I've said a few things. Let's. Let's get somebody. Put up your hand if you want to. Who's ready to. Okay. Okay. Let's go to Joshua Adams first, and then we'll go to Joe Perot. If you're collecting for a financial reason, then yes, because I think that's obviously the, the basis for the question. So, yeah, if you're looking, looking at it from a, from a financial point of view that the money you're using, you don't want to lose, then yes, you should buy the goats. Let me add, let me just add a, A standard to this, I suppose, because I don't want to just turn this into investing versus collecting. I don't think that's the. And I. That's where you're gonna go. And that makes a lot of sense to me that that's where we go. But, but let's say that you can enjoy the collecting of the goats as much as you would enjoy collecting a non goat, a prospect, for example. So it's not so to you because. Not. Because to Josh's comment, it's not. Let's say you're not just collecting for money. You're collecting with financial responsibility in mind, let's say. Which maybe is the same thing you're saying, Josh. Well, I, you. I'm responding to the question. The question was safe. What did you mean by safe? If safe, you meant financially safe. That's how I took it. If you meant something else, I apologize. No, no, that's exactly what it comes down to. So you, your response was if you're collecting with money in mind, then yes, goats are the way to go. So you're saying that goat collecting is safe collecting? Absolutely. But if, but if you're collecting for fun, do whatever you want. I'll buy a ton of Murakami cards because he's having a great season for the White Sox until they trade into the Dodgers in two weeks. But, you know, it'll be. So it depends on what and what the reason you're getting involved in the hobby is. Well, Luke Browning says if money is your goal, safe collecting is great. But collecting what you want may or may not be safe. Absolutely. Tim says liking blue chip cards lately for possible index. Okay. And Jim here says collecting goats is like buying insurance, a very safe investment. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the sports cards live community. 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