Passion to Profession: Inside PSA’s Athlete Strategy with Ryan Greene

Foreign. Welcome back to another episode of Passion to Profession brought to you by my good friends at ebay here on the Stacking Slabs Network. Fun one. Today I'm talking with Ryan Green, Director of Athlete and Artist Partnerships at psa. It is undeniable. The integration of athletes and celebrities has become a major theme in our industry and Ryan is sitting right in the intersection of hobby, business, athlete, celebrity and cards. There is a whole lot I dig into with Ryan, especially as we enter show season Talk talking about his role and where he sees this going. Really enjoyed this conversation. If you like these types of chats that we put out here on Passionate Profession, make sure you're signed up for Hobby Jobs. I'm putting it out every Tuesday. It's a newsletter I talk about my build, another entrepreneur's build in this space and list some cool jobs in this industry that I am finding. And I also started to record a new podcast here on the Stacking Slabs Network called Hobby Jobs. So you're going to get the written form every Tuesday and an audio version here on Stacking Slabs where I give some further context that'll go out every Sunday. So there is a whole lot of content dedicated to individuals working in the industry or aspiring to work in the industry. And I think it matters to all of us as collectors and I'm very fired up about the direction of Hobby Jobs and where we're going next. Shout out ebay for making this possible here on Passion Profession. If you want to show your support for the broader Stacking Slabs Network, hit the follow button, Tell a damn friend, run on over to the Patreon Group. For now, Ryan Green, director of Athlete and Artist Partnerships at psa. Let's get into it. All right, we are back. Another episode of Passion to Profession brought to you by my good friends at ebay. Have a returning guest, a good friend in the hobby. Today we're joined by Ryan Green, who is the director of Athlete and Artist Partnerships at psa. It is a new title for Ryan since the last time we we spoke, but that's really the catalyst for today's conversation. We're going to be talking about the athlete era of the hobby and kind of this role Ryan is working on with athletes and learning about how it came to be kind of what his day to day looks like and everything in between. But without further ado, Ryan, welcome back. How are you, ma'? Am? I'm doing good, man. I feel like I've been listening to you all day. I was listening to the football podcast here in my office before we started recording usually funny story, I, I save it every week. You guys release the episodes on Friday on my Sunday afternoon walk every week. That's my, that's my soundtrack is the football card pod. So I changed it up a little bit this week. I was listening to it at work, but good stuff as always. Yes. Appreciate that. You know, it's, you can never get enough. Maybe you can never get enough of Pack Nicholson. You can probably get enough of me here at Stacking Slabs. But maybe before we jump into the topic at hand, we know that you are a very passionate collector. You've been creating collecting in this space for a long time and you are also a very passionate Chicago Bears fan. And maybe like the last time we recorded it was like, you know, we just hope for the best. Your team ended up having a really fun year. Maybe share some perspective of like the season last year and you as a fan and a collector, like how you reacted to all that. That was the first, first end of a season ever where I legitimately got sad that I had to wait seven months for September round. Like I, I, I'm still, I'm still like just itching. So now seeing all the OTA's content get shared, it's just like, it's like literally giving me goosebumps and getting me just so excited. Pack like we're, we, we sent messages back and forth about it. Like every time one of these like clips drops. Like yesterday there was a clip of Caleb Williams throwing a flick of the wrist, 70 yard pass downfields. Every pass. Yeah, just like great. Now I gotta wait three more months for games to actually happen. But I've been collecting in the offseason. That's how I've been kind of like bridging. I actually have a couple of mine with me. Like I've like picked, I've been getting some Caleb stuff. I got, I got a Donruss Elite gold out of 10 rookie this off season. This was, this is my favorite Caleb off season pickup though. I got the 2025 Gold Prism and, and then a little off the beaten path from the Caleb collection. I got a Colson level and we got the gold XRC this offseason. So I've, that's how I've been kind of collecting is like saving my, saving my, I don't know what you call it. Like I'm, it's been, it's been keeping my brain occupied while we're going six, seven months without Bears football. So yeah, that's fun. And obviously when a number one draft Pick wills a historic franchise into playoff victories and does so in a miraculous way. It's not just the fan base that reacts, but it's the outsiders who are like, oh, you know what? This guy could be something special. So it's probably. Probably hasn't been easy to land the Caleb Cards that you want at the price you want. So you're probably trying to have a nav navigate that as well. It's been. Yeah, it's been. I can't remember even, like, the Justin Fields Mania of, like, the 2022 off season, like, wasn't quite like this, like, so I've had to be very selective. I haven't bought any in a couple months because now it's just starting to get ridiculous. But it's fun nonetheless. Like, I can't. I can't believe I'm this excited about Bears football in. In June. In May. June. That's rarely been the case. It'll be here before you know it. I'm excited, man, to talk about this because I think right now this industry is moving so quickly. And there's news, there's headline sales, there's events, there's new formats, there's content everywhere. And then there's also athletes. And I mean, you know, you've got Card Vault by Tom Brady. Yeah, Fanatics Fest with all of these athletes involved. You've got clips of athletes with cards maybe more than ever before. So they're really getting integrated into hobby culture. And this is something. This is like an area where you're living day in and day out. So maybe, like, as we get into this, let's take, like, a step back and if you can, we. I want to talk about, like, you getting into this role, but obviously, like, collectors in PSA observe this trend. Maybe, like, from your perspective, when did, like, PSA start notice that, noticing this, and when did they start realizing, like, there's an opportunity based on what they saw happening with athletes and their. Their kind of integration into the hobby and hobby culture? You know, it sort of evolved over time. I've been at psa collectors since September 2021, so I'm coming up on five years now, which is kind of crazy to say out loud. I've been in this role since last June, so it's been about a year. If you told me in 21 that this would be a role that we would have four years down the road, I probably wouldn't have believed you. You know, would have taken a lot of foresight. And I think this kind of all happened gradually and in A way very organically. I go back to 2021, and I've been a collector since the 90s. I took, like, everyone. I had the four or five years off before I turned, you know, when I was out of college, focusing on my career and my life, and then, you know, reconnected with it about a decade ago. But, you know, it was so different for me around 2020, 2021 to all of a sudden start seeing athletes be a little more visible in collecting. I visibly, or I vividly remember Mike Trout on Sunday Night Baseball doing a dugout interview in 2021, talking about how he'd started collecting his own cards for his son. And, you know, things like that where you're seeing athletes openly talk about participating in the Hobby. Bobby Witt Jr. Was another one who's been a friend of PSA and a partner of PSA for years now. You just kind of started seeing these things popping up everywhere. And what really impressed me off the bat as, you know, we started to outreach with athletes about, you know, with, like, I mentioned Trout and Bobby, you know, other guys across mlb, other guys across other sports as word of mouth kind of spread and we would get connected with these guys was how organic all of it was. Like, you know, you think about athletes and you think about brands and you think about them being like, paid pitch men and, you know, athletes being, you know, like. I don't know, you guys were talking about McDonald's on the. On the football card pod, right? So you're thinking about, like, seeing Michael Jordan in a McDonald's commercial growing up. But does Michael Jordan actually McDonald's? Like, I don't know, some of the, you know, whereas the guys who were getting into cards, it just. You could tell, like, if you're a collector, you can tell when someone's really in it as a collector or when someone's in it kind of just looking for an opportunity, which, you know, nothing wrong with that. There's participation. Participation at all ends of the spectrum. But what we were finding was a lot of these guys were just really genuinely into it for a lot of different reasons. Some of them collected as kids. Some of them were just discovering the hobby and really loved it. Some of them, you know, saw it as kind of a good distraction way to keep your mind busy during the course of a long season. And I think as that evolved, sort of the idea of focusing resources at our company on that evolved as well. I love that in my mind. And maybe it's because it's Trout and Bobby Wit and it's like the moments that have been captured regarding a prospect getting their Bowman Chrome super from a fan who pulled it and arranging that. It feels like this has trended more on the baseball side initially. And is. Is that what what you have seen, Is it evolving into the other sports or is it just like this was captured online with baseball instantly, but it's kind of been going around with other sports and segments. I think you definitely saw it first and foremost with baseball, and it kind of made the most sense. You know, when you think of sports cards traditionally, you think of baseball cards, right? You know, baseball's had a connection with baseball cards going back decades. And, you know, basketball cards didn't really become a popular thing until the 1990s. Football cards didn't become a popular thing until the 90s, 2000s. Baseball cards were part of American culture going back to, you know, the 40s, 50s, 60s throughout. So it was kind of a little more natural, I think, with baseball. Another reason you saw such heavy participation. You know, we've talked to MLB players about this and they've seconded it. It's such a long season and there's so much downtime. And, you know, we've talked to, you know, we talked to some guys from a couple different teams that were in the playoffs the last couple years. You know, just a few weeks ago, a few of the Toronto Blue Jays were here visiting PSA when they were in town playing the Angels. And they were talking about last year during their World Series run, you know, before ALCS games, they were in there participating in breaks in the clubhouse as a team. And like, it became like this one, this like, team bonding thing where like, a bunch of guys on the team would buy into the same break and they'd hover around and watch it or. It's also a distraction. You know, you think about playoff baseball. It's so stressful. It's a good way to just unplug your brain for a few hours before a game or a few minutes. So it started there, but. But I think you've just kind of slowly seen it grow in the public eye. So, like, you look at the NFL, for example, right? It's amazing how many football players are into Pokemon cards. I don't know what's behind that, but, you know, maybe it's the fact that a lot of these guys are in their 20s. When they were kids, you know, they were really into Pokemon cards. Pokemon was huge at the time. And then they reconnected with it the same way. For me, as a 90s kid, reconnecting with, you know, baseball or basketball or football is a little more natural. So just a lot of different things. And. And one other thing we've really noticed is it's one of the things that's interesting for me is to pay attention to what different athletes collect. And it typically falls into a couple different buckets. There's like the bucket of collecting stuff of yourself almost as like a time capsule of your career, a collection to build for your family, which is really cool. There's a lot of baseball guys who collect in person autos of guys they either play with or compete against. We've saw a couple players at the end of last season send in bulk orders of just autographed cards that they collected during the course of the season. And then the idea of guys like, rarely collect their. Outside of those two buckets, they don't really collect their own sport very much. It's almost like you see a lot of baseball collectors will collect football cards or Pokemon cards. You know, football players collecting Pokemon, basketball players collecting football. There's a lot of just like, interesting crossover. So, yeah, it's just. It's very fascinating to watch unfold in real time. That's very interesting. The thing I think about as you were talking is something that maybe hasn't been brought up with the hobby, but like a signal that we could have all seen before this became a emerging part of the industry where people like you have roles that are servicing this side of it is like, just like. It really started with like, I feel like soccer in the exchange of jerseys. And then obviously that went to the NFL and it just bleeds over. It's like you hear it all the time. It's like these players are chasing certain players that are playing against Jersey. So naturally, like that just, you'd have to imagine is the same type of, you know, collector gene they might apply to sports cards and trying to build out a player set of someone they're competing against or someone on their team or maybe someone in a different sport. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I. There's also just kind of like the competitive angle to it also. You know, these guys are at the top of their professions in terms of the competitive piece of it. And there's. There's something cool about, you know, chasing something super rare that, you know, look, your access, you know, using your access to your advantage, you know, being able to, you know, maybe there's a rare red refractor out of five of a guy you're playing against. But what if I have the only one that's been signed in person and like, just different, different things like that. So that's been kind of cool to lean into and just, you know, and then connecting it with psa. You know, a lot of these guys love the idea of having this stuff authenticated, holdered, you know, preserved. We've seen some guys build really cool displays of PSA slabs and things like that. So there's been a lot of, there's everybody. The one thing that's been really cool to see is there's really no one way for these guys to collect. They've all found different unique ways to do it and that's been really fun to partner with them on along the way of kind of helping them evolve their collections, helping educate them as they, as they collect. That's, that's been something that's been really eye opening is a lot of these guys are just like everybody else getting into the hobby. You kind of get in and you're, you're kind of feeling things out, but you know, just like any other collector, they're dedicating time and resource to it and you kind of learn, evolve your tastes, evolve your focuses as time goes. And that's just really cool to see. I think one way you've described it just in our conversations, you know, offline, is just organic. And just like you mentioned the Trout example and just him talking about it publicly and I'm sure like members of the team at PSA observe these trends and you know, Trout might be grading his cards and then you eventually see it enough where you're like, okay, there's something here. So before we, our last time we spoke, you were on the marketing team, you were working in comms and social media. I'm curious, like, were you privy to the fact that an opportunity like you're in right now might exist? Like, talk a little bit about like the early stages before maybe the formal role in job description was created. You know, it kind of, I will say this, if a little over a year ago this, this role kind of came out of nowhere and found me. I, you know, I'll say this. I, I came into PSA in 2021, like you said. I, I came on onto the team and I was working on social media, social media and content primarily to start, but, you know, obviously saw this opportunity with, you know, athletes in the hobby to really help our brand and elevate our brand and started doing some of those outreaches, you know, DMing athletes who we saw participating in the hobby and artists we saw participating in the hobby directly from our accounts and forming those relationships, building those relationships. And, you know, before you know it, we've built this whole, you know, to use an old school term, like an old whole Rolodex of just these guys who we've been in touch with were starting to help them get submissions into psa. Some of them we're starting to work with on a partnership level. And then it sort of evolved as, you know, we just kind of had more and more visible opportunities with athlete and artist partners that it was kind of proposed a little over a year ago. This is something we should, you know, put, you know, a role together for. And, you know, I just to say it, like, I was kind of tapped on the shoulder and asked if it was something I'd be interested in because I was already doing so much of it kind of on my own to expand my previous role. So it was a really natural transition over to this role for me. And, you know, spent about the first, you know, couple months feeling out like, okay, what does this program look like now? And there's a bunch of different tentacles to it now. You know, we have the athletes who we work with, you know, kind of off the radar, helping them just in general with submissions and building their collections. We have some who we work with on, you know, on the marketplace side of our business, who we're helping them utilize the vault and ebay marketplace to evolve their collections. And then, you know, other programs that I've helped kind of formalize in the last year, most notably the PSA Autograph series, which is a private signing series that we now run both on the sports and the TCG pop culture side, where we're bringing in athletes and artists for private signings, where we're building campaigns and having submission windows where customers have a couple months of sensei sensitive, send an item in for an athlete to sign, and then not only is it getting signed, but it's getting authenticated, graded, and returned to the customer in one, all in one process. So there's just a lot of different ways you can take this, and that's been really fun. Is, you know, I. I showed up and had. I. I call it a. It was a blank canvas. I have a giant whiteboard on my wall here. And it. It was just fun to start playing around on there with what we want to do. And I feel like it's really starting to find its traction in the last six months or so. I know, like, even though it's sports cards and it's fun and we love it and we're Collectors too. It's a really fun space to work and I think you, you try to be as professional as possible. But like, was there any sort of like intimidation factor there? Like these are the guys and gals that like you have seen play games, you have rooted for, like, and now you're trading messages with them about sports cards. Like, was there any intimidation factor that you had to overcome or did it just come natural to you? It's weird to say it, but it kind of came natural the first. So to back it up a step, the first 15 years of my professional career, I spent, you know, my first decade as a professional sports journalist, sports writer on a beat covering high profile teams. And so like I was kind of indirectly, I was kind of already around athletes and, and in it, you know, kind of, you know, around them and speaking with them a lot. And then I moved over onto the kind of a more marketing, PR content side and I worked in professional boxing for five, six years and I was working directly with athletes all the time. Directly with, you know, celebrity guests we had coming to events all the time. And I almost, I'm not going to say the word desensitized, but I just kind of became comfortable with it and you know, knowing how to kind of interact with, with professional athletes and you know, etc. So I'll say this, it sounds kind of weird but like, I can't think of a single instance where I've found myself like starstruck or anything like that because I feel like I've just kind of got a little distance. That's a long time ago in my career. So. But honestly that's what you find when working with professional athletes is these guys are just, they're for the most part they're just normal people like the rest of us. And you know, it's really cool. I think collecting is such a cool connector because you really see these guys interact with a hobby the same way you do. And even though their life professionally is so much different than yours or any maybe anyone else, you know, and they live a totally different kind of life, the way that they interact with the hobby is the same way that you do. And I always find that just to be so humanizing and cool. So yeah, I feel like the hobby's presence in these interactions really makes it easier to just have, you know, have these normal, just interactions and relationships on those curves. I'm curious, like it sounds like you, you were based on your experience, which is probably what one of the reasons and probably you being good at your last role and you Having this sort of experience with athletes that you're tapped on the shoulder and so you're, you, you felt like you were already getting into this. But I'm sure like with any role in any industry, like, there's probably some things that might have surprised you out of the gates because it is a startup role. Like, no one has had this role at PSA before you. And I'm curious, like, has there been anything just out of the gates that stepping in and as you're like, you got a blank canvas, you're trying to map, like, I should do this, this didn't work, or I should do more of that. This really worked. Like, has there been anything that has stood out and surprised you? It's a great question. In terms of just things that surprised me, I think I was a little surprised and I already talked about it, but a little bit. But I was so surprised with the level of authenticity that and kind of humility that a lot of, a lot of professional athletes come into the hobby with. You know, I think on the surface you would maybe think guys come in and they're like, I'm, I'm one of the best in the world at this field. I'm going to step into this hobby and just, you know, approach it different than anyone else. And that guys come into this with just like a general just curiosity and want to learn it. And, and I think a lot of them just find that I that way of reconnecting with something they either once loved or something they, they can have a genuine passion outside of that with. And I think that kind of surprised me a little bit. Like, and I think the level of creativity that you see from the way these guys collect lends itself to other ideas that we can lean into. So like, for example, when, you know, you see guys that are really getting into collecting in person autographs, like, then educating them, hey, when you're getting a guy to sign this card, here's how to like prep the surface for a signature. Here's the kind of pens you should be using, here's the best, you know, all those little things. But that's been really, that's been the cool thing. The surprising thing is as we've had these ideas of how to expand this program, having just the comfort to be able to pitch that to these guys and how open they are to, you know, trying cool things based on the access they have has been really refreshing. Has it been intimidating? I guess is the way to put it. Has it been mostly like there has been all of this exposure in of the hobby and people know psa and it's translated down to individuals who maybe collected as a kid and now they're athletes and they're like returning to it because they see an opportunity and collecting and nostalgia and all this. Is that like this I think about the boomerang path that many of us have been on. Like, we collected as kids and then now we reentered and now we're taking, we have our lumps and we finally find the thing that we love and we go pursue it. Like, is it, is it similar for athletes? Or has there been any like, athletes that have come in your direction who are like, you would classify as like, okay, this person knows exactly what they're doing. They've been doing this for a while and like they've got maybe a level of sophistication. I guess. Like the question I'm asking is that like more like onboarding people who are returning to the hobby or are there athletes who are just like, have been just like seriously collecting for a while? Like what's, what's the makeup look like? More newcomers, for sure. The guys who, you know, it's funny because you think about what it takes to get to that level in your career as a professional athlete. You're like so much of your late youth and teenage years and then early 20s is spent focusing singularly on that one thing. Like you don't have time for hobbies most of the time, right. So a lot of these guys who did collect earlier collected when they were really young. So they're, they're just now getting back into it and, and learning, you know, the same way we do. You know, you, you're kind of like checking out all the stuff that's out, asking questions, figuring out what you like, and then you, you know, eventually find your lane. I think I'm surprised how fast some of these guys find their lame. You know, that could be for a variety of different reasons. But you know, it is cool to watch as like these guys get into their specific lanes and then really try to expand on them. You know, the guys who, like I was saying the example of guys who get really into in person autos who then like take it another step of like, how can I make these items really unique? What kind of inscriptions could I have them do for me and, and things like that. It's, it's a little of both. But a lot of athletes coming into the space are general, you know, newcomers to the hobby. But one thing that's really impressive is of all the athletes we've worked with here in the last several years who've been getting into the hobby and learning. A lot of them haven't, like, dropped off. You know, that was a whole thing in the hobby in general. A lot of people got in for the first time ever in 20, 20, 21, and then just kind of pieced out a couple years later. Like, that hasn't really happened. A lot of these guys, a lot of them have, like, really stuck with it, which means they got into it probably with really, like, I think, really, really good intention and, and as something they really wanted to embrace and they really have. And the community. And great with them too. Like, the community loves it. Yeah. I think what's not, not lost on me and probably the, the listeners is the fact that traditionally when I think about athletes and cards, I think about them getting a big box of cards from the manufacturer to, to sign autographs. And I also think about like, the rookie photo shoots and being a part of that and seeing their cards. So I'm, I'm just curious, like, did they, you have to hear like some commentary from these athletes about the cards that they're on and they're holding. Like, what's that dynamic like? Because each of those moments, I feel like is a trip down memory lane, which can open up the doors for like, oh, on this day I was doing X or during this game, I remember Y. Like, I'm sure that's part of like the natural conversation that you're having with these. Oh, I was on a regular basis. Yeah. Like, there's been a couple guys that we've worked with who, you know, former NFL players where we'll have, you know, who have their own cards that they want to do some signings of so that they can grade and encapsulate them for their family, friends, etc, and you would be shocked how you'd look at like a. They're signing like a 2002 Topps Chrome base card and, and it's them warming up before a game and it's like, oh, I remember that that was in New England because that was the only game I ever wore those sleeves in my career. And here it is 25 years later and they remember that detail. There's a lot of really cool stuff like that. And I thought, one of the coolest things, I know you guys talked about it in your podcast, you and you and Pac last week about the rookie premiere for the NFLPA, which, you know, the NFLPA has been doing for 25 plus years, but they've evolved it now with you look at the fanatics involvement and like having like card collector 2 there doing content on camera with like Fernando Mendoza and those guys having these conversations about cards. You never saw this before. And I'm a big rookie premier like guy. We know this. I'm a of like the autographs. I've been fascinated by this whole thing for 20 plus years. But what I saw a couple weeks ago when they were doing it, I'm like, this is the next step. Like this is how you really get these guys engaged. And you know, you saw video coming out of that weekend of those guys sitting around a conference table, you know, opening packs together and whatnot. I mean that's how you get these guys. Like that's how you kind of whet the appetite of and get and see who's interested in you know, maybe exploring this a little deeper that I, I'm pretty sure that didn't happen until a year ago. Yeah. And I wanted to get into that just like the trickle down effect of fanatics and how that has maybe translated into what you're seeing in your role. Like undeniably ever since they took over the licenses, the one thing that no one can deny is that athletes are more integrated in sports card culture than ever before. You've got legends like Barry Sanders on debut Topps, Chrome breaks, Shout Out, Tombstone collectibles. They did that. You're seeing obviously Tom Brady doing videos, basically saying like, you know, if you rip a, if you rip a Brady auto out of Chrome in a, you pull it in a car vault store, like I'm gonna FaceTime you. And it's just like crazy. Like it's like this is stuff like people would dream of. And fanatics is really coordinating all this. I'm curious, like based on them taking over NBA and NFL license, athletes being front and center, like how has that trickled down into like what you've seen in your role? Yeah, I mean I, I can't praise fanatics enough for what they've done on that front and, and tapping back into something we said earlier, what they've done so well is that they're bringing the athletes to the forefront with their, with a lot of their executions who are genuinely into this. I feel like as a collector you can tell when someone is just like they're doing something because they're like a spade, a paid spokesperson for it versus when they genuinely care about it. And the way that they've really leaned in with athletes who are like genuinely fascinated and want to take part in the hobby has been really Cool. And I think, you know, they've tried a lot of different things, as they should. I was at the first Fanatics fest two years ago. I didn't go last year. But I mean even just the integration of being on the show floor and seeing Rob Gronkowski walking around near you with a giant gaggle of people like looking at tables and displays, I mean, that was just cool, you know. So I, I think what Fanatics is doing and, and, and the way that they are just really, it's, it's kind of, you know, cliche to say, but just bringing people closer to the game and to the athletes with a lot of these things that they're doing, it can't help but have a good effect elsewhere because I started collecting cards in the 90s and I collected throughout high school, you know, in the late 90s and like it was not like the cool thing to do in the late 90s. It was, it was basically me and my best friend growing up and like, I don't, I didn't know anybody else who collected outside. And the, the, the regulars we saw at our monthly show in suburban Chicago. And now it's just become so mainstream and that's just the evolutionary next step of it. Now the athletes themselves taking part, you know, what you saw in the last five years was like the evolution of it becoming mainstream and now you're seeing the next step of that and I think it's only going to continue to grow and I really don't see how that has a negative effect or doesn't trickle down and just get more people curious, period. What have your observations been on like the consumer side? I know you're mostly, you know, building and managing the relationships with the athletes, but like, have you seen any sort of impact? One signal for me that I've noticed is like the Topps Chrome NBA Basketball and Topps Chrome Football, like those like launches of the product and the athletes that were involved, like they, it just felt different and it felt big in a way where not just like hobby Instagram or the communities that I'm involved with took note. But it really felt like, you know, I get a text from my dad or my mom being like, hey, did you see this on the news? Like Tom Brady was talking about top football. So it just feels like those sorts of signals and things that I see like obviously have some trickle down effect on like us as collectors. Like what. Do you have any observations on things you've noticed regarding like athletes being involved and how that's impacted collectors or people who Might be curious about collecting again. I think you said it best. It felt both of those product drops felt like events and I can't remember another product drop in my three decades of collecting that felt that way. I really, I really can't. They just did it so differently and I thought it was really great because I had a couple of examples of the same thing you said. You know, I'm trying to remember. There was one of Tom Brady's shops that opened. I think it was, my aunt called me like, did you see that Tom Brady opened a card shop here? I mean this stuff is just, it's, it's spreading around different than it used to be. And you know, look, I think, I think there's going to be growing pains for the hobby as it continues to surge the way it has. But I mean I just see these as good steps in the right in the neck know, just steps forward for everything. Because I do, I do think that especially younger collectors. My, I have an 8 year old nephew who started to get super into cards and I mean he reminds me of myself where like, you know, he can tell you, you know, we were, we, we were with him a few weeks ago and you know, every morning all he does is sit on, you know, YouTube and pull up MLB TVs highlights from the night before and like telling me about who's been hitting really well and all that. And, but he sees these things too and, and I think kids and younger collectors seeing these things, that's how it's trickling down and connecting younger people to collecting earlier than, or more I guess at a higher volume than before. I, I'm, I have to believe that's the case. I want to make sure that I try to, without prying, see if I can get any sort of stories or moments from you from maybe the other side or behind the curtain. And I understand like there's some confidentiality with you and these relationships. So I don't want to put you in an uncomfortable spot and have you share something you shouldn't. But is there anything you can share about just like memorable moments of you in this roles and interaction you've had with athletes that like stand out to you that you can talk about? Yeah, I mean, you know, there's been some stuff that's happened even somewhat in the public eye that we've been involved with that just like really were moments that made you feel like this just feels different. And one that always comes to mind was, you know, there's a video on our, on PSA's, YouTube from it's probably three, four years old now, but when Mike Trout first started collecting and grading with us, you know, Mike has a pedigree collection, the Trout family collection, on his cards of himself that he's been collecting for himself, his sons, his family going forward. And when he came to pick up his first submission of those, we had a surprise for him and we had commissioned to get a custom box made for his personal collection that had like Trout family collection branding on it. It was this beautiful wood design. It had like the, it was designed on the top had a glass or a see through glass top where you could display cards. But over it, it had the ribbon from the 2011 tops Topps update design, which was his rookie card and it said Trout family collection across it. And so when he got here, we had him in our content studio and we had it under, you know, a little black cloth and we had him do like an unveil on camera and you could genuinely tell he was like, oh my God, this is awesome. And like his reaction to it was like, you couldn't fake that. And I was sitting there at the moment thinking like, this is a guy who's the best baseball player of our generation. He's seen everything. Like, I can't imagine a lot of things like, impress him anymore at this point, but like, he was genuinely like taken back by just like what that meant to him and what that collection meant to him. And I always draw back to that as, because like you said, there's been other moments like that where, you know, we work with, you know, some NBA players who rip a lot of product and like, we've been with them when like, they hit really big cards and have like the same genuine reaction that you or I would have if you hit a one of one or something crazy. And it, that's kind of my drawback to like the hobby can really make people feel different and evoke emotions that, you know, you can't, that you only get from a few other places. So that's been really cool. And it's kind of like something when I think about our role in helping you, helping athletes who collect, it's kind of like what you're chasing is helping them like create these moments for themselves that like really bring genuine joy and just a genuine connection to this hobby that they're now involved with. That's awesome. Love the Trout story. On the other side of it, obviously, when you have high profile individuals that are talking about cards promoting it, like, is there anything you see that's maybe at risk or any, like, is this sustainable? Like, that's. And this is a question. I think we just in general in the hobby feel right now where it's like, man, this has been going on at this level for a long time and continues to elevate and there's more volume, more high sales, more everything. And I think it's this perfect storm of all of these factors that are coming together at one point. And athletes, I think, play a big role in it because they have large megaphones, huge social platforms, and people follow what they're doing. Like, do you see, just based on your role in this moment of time, any risk that we have with athletes being involved at the hobby? And like, how do you think about making sure that if there are risks, like, anything you can in your role, like you're trying to help mitigate that? I wouldn't say risks so much. I think our focus is more on in the areas of this program where we are connecting athletes with collectors and with customers through product and through, you know, activations. I think really promoting the strength of what our brand can bring to it as kind of that bridge. And I go back to the autograph series. I think that's a, that's a, a perfect example of, you know, you know, this, like in person autographs and autographs on rookie cards, like 10 years ago, that was such a taboo thing, right? And now it's become this big thing that people are really chasing and, and integrating into the way they collect. So the way we're building out like the autograph series with bringing, you know, legendary athletes, like, you know, we had Reggie Jackson recently, we have Allen Iverson coming up later this month. We had Magic Johnson at the beginning of the year. Giving customers and collectors a way to get access to something like that, I think is really cool. And I think it's really unique in that, you know, like you said, as the, as the hobby scales up, as, you know, more and more people, more and more money get into this, you know, we see examples of it all the time. There's. That always invites bad actors, right? And just like, just different things like that. And I think where we can really lean into, I always try to stay connected to the core of what our business is, authentication, authentic authenticity. And you know, so as we're building the autograph series program, giving people access to like authentic, you know, autographs from legendary athletes. And then when it comes to athletes we work with, this is something I've really sticked to since we started working with athletes years ago. Was I really, if we're going to work on a brand front of, you know, athletes that we're going to partner with on say like creating content and doing things like that. I really want to do it with guys who are authentic with the hobby and are authentic participants in the hobby. Not just guys who are wanting to be a paid spokesman or a paid spokesperson, you know, people who are genuinely into it and, and will come across authentic to our customers and other collectors. Because if not like, how are we really, you know, what, what is that really servicing the community with if we're not? So that's. I kind of try to stay tethered within our brand to that whole idea of authentic and authenticity with everything we do. Just to make sure that as we're scaling this up, we're scaling it the right way and with the right intentions. I love it. Great thoughts. Maybe Ryan, as we round the corner on this conversation, I'd love to get like your vision of like looking down the road, looking you know, several years based on the early signals and what you see, like what athlete involvement looks like. Yeah. In the hobby, you know, five years from now, like what do you see this becoming. Are we just getting started? Like what's your perspective? Boy, it's. It's really hard to tell because I mean some of the things we see athletes doing now I couldn't have seen coming four or five years ago. I think that's kind of the exciting part about it is who knows how this is going to evolve. I think what you are going to see more of is like I just keep going back to the genuine connection between athletes and collectors and like something you were talking about earlier, you always see these examples of, you know, collectors who pull like a rare card of an athlete and then they find a way to connect with the athlete, make a deal in person for some kind of trade. I think you're going to see a lot more of that as we go forward and I think you're just going to see just like you've seen athletes get more creative with the way they're collecting as time goes and, and with their access and the ability to connect with the hobby so easily. I think you're going to see collectors get a lot more creative with the way that they collect and the way they try to get access to athletes through the hobby. I think, you know, I'm really bullish on the idea of like I, I've really grown into this space now of like how fascinating in person autographs and you like making collectibles really unique can be I think you're going to start seeing more and more collectors leaning into that. And I think with that said, more athlete participation in the hobby is a good thing, especially athletes who genuinely want to come into this and connect with the community. Such a fun conversation. It's such an interesting topic to think about and I think it feels like we're just getting really started and it's awesome to be able to gather some perspective from you, Ryan, someone who is working at a major business in this industry servicing athlete collectors on a daily basis. Ryan, this won't be the last time we talk, but as always, man, appreciate the time. Likewise, Brett. I love this. Every time. I'm gonna go back and finish the football card pod now. Hey, just make sure you tell your damn friends, okay? Tell everyone. I always take part in card call outs. Yes, I. I see those. Those bangers. And yeah, if maybe. Hey, for anyone who's not, plug the ig because you know, you're working for our a major hobby business, but you're also a collector and you share your card. So plug your IG so people can find you. Mostly modern collector is me on Instagram. That's my card. Instagram. I'm a little embarrassed though, because I've really slacked on posting in there the last six to eight months. So I've been really cognizant of that lately. So I'm gonna. I'm actually doing some fun things. I kind of want to like redo a whole showcase of like my personal collection. So I'm gonna start working on that in the next couple months. But yeah, mostly modern collectors where you can find me and connect with me on there. Yes. And you might see some sweet. We talked rookie premiere some red ink autos. That. That's full. That's on there for sure. Got. I got two that I actually haven't shown on Instagram yet. Let's go. Yeah, these are. Because I just got these both back from reholder service. But Speaking of Wish, 2001, my. One of my favorite years. What a combo. What a draft class. What a duo. Two hall of Famers with the first and 32nd pick. That's crazy. Tell people who are listening what cards you show you how 2001 tops. Rookie Premier Autos of Drew Brees heading into the hall of Fame in two months. And lt, best running back of the generation. Wow. I have not seen a more significant rookie autograph collection than Ryan, so make sure you check it out. Ryan, appreciate you catching up, man. Talk to you soon. All right, take care. Always enjoy my time with Ryan. Really cool role. I think he shed some awesome insights on the direction of athletes, celebrities in this space and their passion for the hobby that we love. Make sure you're following hobby Jobs link is in the show notes. We'll be back with another passionate profession. Shout out ebay next week. Take care. Talk to you soon.