Rare Cards That Are Cheap?

In our massive country, there are card collectors throughout the land participating in the hobby. There's Mike of Junk Wax Hero and Greg of Midlife Cards. And while distance may separate them, here is where they come together to talk cards. Hey, buddy. How are you doing today? Great. And I should apologize to the viewers and listeners about my audio because I'm having some microphone issues that I'll work through soon. But I had a gigantic bowl from Chipotle at lunchtime today, and I might not eat for a week. Really? Well, let me tell you about eating, my friend. I just got off of an Alaskan cruise yesterday. I mean, 26 hours ago, maybe 27, 28 hours ago, as we're recording this, I was on a cruise ship. And if you've never been on a cruise, basically all you do is sit around and eat, like, and the food is everywhere. And I had lobster and ribeyes and fillets, and it was just. I basically ate for a week straight. Where was the lobster from? I'm guessing somewhere in New England, wherever the heck that is. Yes, I believe it was Maine lobster. Now get this. This was a 14 ounce lobster tail, not a 14 ounce lobster. The tail was 14 ounces. It was the size of like, it was like the size of a. Of a New York strip steak. It was incredible. Had lobster a couple of times. Had just. It was, it was insane. But I got it. I got to say a couple things, and I'll talk about this, I'm sure on my channel, too. First of all, we went into Seattle. And when we were in Seattle, I didn't know what to expect. I'd never been to Seattle. Okay. Have you ever been to Seattle? I've never been to the Pacific Northwest. Okay. Seattle's a cool town. You, for a second there, you froze for just a moment. But we'll, we'll get through this. I. We're both, so. This is a stream yard issue. We're both hardwired in. I. I don't know what to say. I. Seattle's cool. Like, it's a cool town. I was very impressed with Seattle. You know, Alaska. Alaska was interesting. The scenery is beautiful. Some photos, they're amazing. Oh, my gosh. I'm putting together a little montage because a lot of people, if I talk like this for a little while at the start of my episode, people in the comments will say, the actual video starts at 6 minutes and 15 seconds. And I'm like, actually, it started at 0 seconds. You can fast forward. So I'm going to put my little montage at the end of episode this week. But it's beautiful there. Beautiful. But the people in Alaska, they, they don't, they don't require. For at least the people that I ran across, they don't require the same level of like, technology and stuff. It's like living off of the land and it's. It's like going back in time. And I'm not saying this in a negative way. I'm saying this in certainly a bit of jealousy that I am so dependent on some of my technologies and comforts that a lot of people in these. These towns that we visited in Alaska is not that way. And they live in a beautiful area. Saw whales, we saw a bear. We saw mountain goats on the side of a mountain jumping around. We saw seals hanging out on icebergs. It was. It was. Was wild. So eating. If you ever real. If you're ever hungry again, Mike, go on a cruise. I'll keep that in mind next time. I'm hungry. Okay. And again, this is just a quick reminder to the great people at Chipotle if they're looking to expand into the sports card advertising market. We are. We are eager to become partners with them. Love Chipotle. I would love to meet sponsored us. While we're not sponsored by Chipotle, we are sponsored by a good friend of ours and everybody in the community, and that is none other than Chris Sewell. Tell them about Chris Sewell, Mike. Chris Sewell is collector, investor, dealer, in that order. He is our good friend, the most trustworthy, in my opinion, dealer out there. He will give you, if you're interested in selling all or part of your collection, he will give you a very transparent view into his offer, why he is offering that much. And it's fair and he. It's. It's very transparent. Go check out Sewellsportscards.com is that right? Is that the right websites.com. email him at chris@nosewellsportscards gmail.com man, we take two weeks off. Greg, I'm losing it. That's all right. We didn't actually take two weeks off because we recorded one in advance. We had it in the can, as they say in the business. But yes, Chris is the best. Again, all of his contact information, Sewell sports cards. You can find him on all social media platforms. Of course, you're probably subscribed to his channel. Everybody out there, he's got contact information. But Chris is the best collector investor, dealer in that order. And if you can't remember cidcards.com you can always head over to the sports card clubhouse, and under the partners link, you can click on Learn More next to Chris's picture, and you can find out all sorts of information about him, his channel, and more importantly, his sports card business, where he has quickly become one of the outstanding sports card dealers in the hobby. So we've got a few things to talk about, but the first thing I wanted to talk to about with you is when I came home, I had a stack of packages, and I've not shown these to anybody yet. So you're going to be the first person that is going to see some of my pickups when I was gone. And there's a concept that I'm very intrigued by recently, and I want to talk to you about that concept. So first I want to show you a couple of cards, and then I want to integrate that concept into the showing of some of these cards. So, first card I have Here is a 1999 Stadium Club Chrome refractor of Barry Bonds. Okay. And already love it because it's Stadium Club chrome and it's a refractor. It is a beautiful card. You know, I try to get Bonds hitting, but people forget he was a really good fielder as well, won several Gold Gloves. So, really excited to pick up this Bonds card. Bonds cards have been going up at an alarming rate. And so I try to find some cool images of his, specifically late 90s stuff if I can that kind of fall through the cracks. And this card was cheap. This was like an 80 card or 90. Wow. Yeah. Is that a PSA 8? PSA 8, which I think is the sweet spot kind of in. In modern ish cards. So I got that one. Well, nobody wants. Nobody wants the 8. No, well, I shouldn't say that. Collectors want the 8. That's a collector's grade for this. A 9 is more than raw, a 10 is obviously way more than raw, but an 8 is kind of like it's maybe a little less than raw. So with that. Yeah. And people are saying, but when you look at 1990s refractors, that's generally the way it is. Yes. So if I go to 1999 Bowman Chrome Pack odds, and I'm going to share my screen, if you're listening, but I'm going to explain what I'm talking about here as I'm showing it. So if I go to 1999 Bowman Chrome Pack odds. Okay. And because I know there are a lot of people out there that listen to us that are vintage collectors, too, and they say, oh, man, the Modern stuff. That's, that's, you know, not, that's not it. You want the vintage stuff because the vintage stuff is true rarity. It's not manufactured scarcity. And, and we could, we could go down that debate right now and talk about it if you want. We don't need to, but we can definitely talk about it. But one of the things that happened was when the Junk Wax era occurred, everybody then said, oh, all of the cards from this era are junk. And so what happened was as they competed with each other, the different brands, they came out with a lot of innovation, including refractors, including different parallels, including numbered cards. But that was happening as people were still kind of thinking, oh, sports cards are never going to be worth anything. Look at all these 88 tops and 89 tops boxes full of cards everywhere. So there was this moment in time, in my opinion, where cards actually had a lot of advances and a lot of scare true scarcity, but people didn't know that they would have value. Sort of like people didn't know that cards would have value from the 50s and 60s, so they didn't hold on to them. A lot of these cards are just gone because it's like, oh, sports cards, they're not worth anything anymore. Toss them out. So if we go into, what do you think about that first? What's your response to me saying that? Yeah, absolutely. And I, I might argue that the span of like 1995-2004 ish, that 10 year span might have the most creative, most broad opportunities for collectors and best looking cards ever. And things have been downhill since 2005. I agree. And, and what is it that spurred that on the competition? Because there were so many different companies, the, the junk wax became so bland and a bunch of companies popped up. They needed survival so they fought by innovating and they came up with really cool cards. And so I'm looking at the 1999 Bowman chrome, okay. And I'm looking at the pack odds. So if you're listening, I'm showing a chart of pack odds. And so the international cards is 1 in 4 packs in series 1, 1 in 12 packs in series 2, the refractors 1 and 12 and 1 in 12 and so on. So this card right here, this is a Diamond Aces refractor. There were 18 cards in this insert set. They came in one in 84 packs. Okay, so we're talking about about one in four boxes because up above I'm showing that a hobby box contained 24 packs. These Diamond Ace refractors came one in 84 packs, about one in four boxes. And how many are on the checklist for diamond aces? Right. There are 18. Okay, so they're. Yeah, go one every 74 boxes. If my very quick math just hit after 5:00pm on a Monday, bonds. Right. Would only be one in every. What did I say? I've already forgotten. Well, the good thing about cell phones is they have calculators now. So I type in 84. Yeah. Times 18. I can't carry around a calculator in my pocket. 1512 packs. 1 in 1512 packs is going to have this Derek Jeter card and I'm going to show it on the screen. And this is a Diamond Aces. Derek Jeter. Let me go solo here. I should have done this before. Okay, so this card Right here is one in every 1500 and 12 packs, which is like you said, approximately. Let's divide here by 24 to get the exact number. 1 in 63 packs or 1 in 63 boxes is going to have that card. Okay, so that's my second card I want to show. But. But now I want to introduce this topic and I'm not going to act like this is my topic. My buddy Brian, the High Pop professor, he talks a lot about the topic of pdp, which is pack dollars to pull. How many dollars do you have to spend to mathematically pull a particular card? Okay. And I think that this is one of the most overlooked thing in the hobby right now. See what Numbered cards are popular and the reason they're numbered is it does the work for you. It tells you the level of scarcity. If it's out of 50, there's only 50 of these. So it's rare. Right, but what was happening in the late 90s and mid-90s is they were doing inserts that were extremely rare, but they didn't number them. But they're really rare. But people don't know they're rare because you have to actually look up the rarity. And so Brian is always the High Pop professor. Check out his channel if you're not subscribed. And I'm going to put him up on the screen if you're not subscribed to the High Pop professor, you are absolutely missing out. He is. He's a math teacher, so he knows math. And a really interesting guy, collects a lot of late 90s, specifically cards, some early 2000s. Okay, are you down with HPP? I'm down with HPP. You know me, baby. You know me. I'm down with HPP now. Okay, so now I want to pull back and I'm going to show you some of the math here as I show you the next card. So this One is a 2000 card. Again, I came home to a pile of packages. I think I had seven or eight cards that came while I was gone for nine days. So this is a Derek Jeter 2000 tops chrome all tops refractor. That one's in a 10. I didn't even realize that I bought it in a tent. Did I really buy that in a 10? Apparently I bought that in a 10, which is not usually what I buy, but they don't show up a lot. So I bought the one that was there. So I want to show you. I want to walk through this with you. Okay, so I'm going to go pull up on the screen. I'm going to go up and I'm going to go back in. I'm sure there's an easier way to do this. Somebody will yell at me on the screen. So I'm going to go to 2000 tops chrome pack odds. And this is an All Tops refractor. All Tops refractor right down here. So on the screen, this card came one in every 160 packs. So people go, those cards aren't rare. That's manufactured Scarcity. Okay, great. One in 160 packs. Now, it was 24 packs in a box. So hold on, let me get my calculator, because I'm not Brian who could do that in his head. I go 160 packs divided by 24 six and a half boxes. So every six and two thirds boxes. And then you're going to pull one of these cards, but there's 10 of them. Right. So it's every 67 boxes. Yeah, that the Jeter shows up one in every 67 boxes. Now, the packs were three bucks a pack. So the PDP that Brian talks about, so there's 160 packs I'd have to open to get one of them, but there are 10 of them. So to get the Jeter, it would be one in every 1600 packs. So to open 1000, how much? 4, 800 bucks. 4, 800 dollars worth of packs. I would have to open on average to pull that card. And I bought this card in a 10 for 140 bucks. What? Right. It's Derek Jeter. I thought you were going to tell me it cost you 1200 bucks. And it's beautiful for 140 bucks. Now, the question on everybody's mind here, Greg, every single person is wondering how much credit does Mike John Wax Hero get for your sudden love affair with modern cards? They definitely get some. Because you. You know, I wanted. I. I wanted. I was like the kid up on the top of the high dive at the pool. You ever go to the high to see the high dive at the pool and the kids up there and he's looking down and he's like, I don't know. I was too scared to even go up. Okay, well, I'm. I was standing on the edge and you were down below sipping on a lemonade, and you said, you'll never do it, you weenie. And I was like, I gotta do it just to prove this guy wrong. And then I did it, and I go, that was fun. And I raced back up the ladder and I did it again. So you get. You get some of the credit for sure. Let me blow your mind, though. Let me blow your mind on another one. Okay, so this next card I've got, It is a PSA 91997 Select Artist Proof blue. Okay. Artist proof blue. So I could show you the charity. I'll show you the chart on one more, and then I'll just quote you the numbers after that. I guess I shouldn't still be on the screen by myself. So I'm gonna pull it back up and I'm going to show you 1997 select Pack Odds. Now, when I open this one up, check this out. The artist proof blue is one in every 355 packs. And there's one in every 355 packs. Wow. You would pull one of these cards. Now, there are 50. There are 50 in this insert set. So 300. Hold on, let me get the calculator. 355 packs times 50 cards in it. You would have to open 17,750 packs. That's card. That's just one break with Backyard Breaks. There you go. Well, they would call it beforehand, and the packs were three bucks each. Okay. When this is not $3 in today's dollars, these are $3 in $1997. So times $3, you would have to open $53,000. $53,250 worth of packs in order to pull the. This Derek Jeter card. Okay. You know how much I paid for it? A hundred. $185. Now, here's the other thing, Mike. A lot of these cards, the guys in that 50 parallel set aren't Derek Jeter. You know, they're like Yvonne Rodriguez. Oh. I mean, they're way less than Yvonne Rodriguez. They're, you know, Juan Gonzalez, you know, there's, that's Juan Gonzalez, slander, two time mvp. So my point though is this is one of the better ones you could pull. And you would have to open 17, 750 packs to get this one. You would have to open 355 packs to find any of them. And it's a hundred. And this isn't a nine. This isn't a nine. Now if you look at the pop count, maybe we could do that if you're interested. Do you want to look at the pop count? Sure. You're not that interested. Do you want to look at the pop count? I'm sure the pop count is like a dozen of them. And but if it was a, if it said PMG on it and this is a beautiful card, let me tell you. It's shiny, it's got Derek Jeter on it, it's got blue. I mean that's really the only flaw is that it's got Derek Jeter on it. Right. Exactly. Now, I just want to let you know I'm waiting for you to talk about the Red Sox series this last weekend. I'm waiting and I am armed. I am armed with retaliatory counter strike. So just be prepared. Well, I think, I think ahead, but go ahead. Here's the thing, Greg. I've given this a zero thought because it didn't even occur to me for some reason I think of you as a Giants fan, so I always forget that you're a Yankees fan probably because I like you so much and I don't want to admit that I like somebody who's a Yankees fan. So I, no joke, I canceled Nessen, which is the channel thread Sox air on because I just haven't watched enough games and I'm really disgusted with the way that the team has been managed. Love the team, but I'm like not watching a lot of games this year and I'm frustrated with the management of the team. And so I, I canceled Nessen on Thursday afternoon and they subsequently swept the Yankees four straight games after I canceled Nessen. So I think the obvious conclusion here is that I am also to thank for the Red Sox surge this weekend. Yeah. You know, and I'm really excited for the Red Sox because, you know, now they're only like 12 games back and after picking up four so one, one of only two American League teams with a plus, a positive run differential. We are almost to the Fourth of July and you guys are only 12 games behind us. I, I'm really happy for you guys. I'M really happy for you. Okay. I got two more cards I got to show. Okay. Yeah. This next one is a 1997 Pinnacle certified. And this is a. That's my beautiful. Yeah, that's a great looking card. Beautiful card. Okay. It's got like a mirror look. Now there is a mirror version of this card. Yeah, this is that. The, the mirror card is insanely expensive. Yeah. This one is, is got a mirror in it, but it's not the mirror version of the Team Gold card. This card comes 1 in every 119 packs. This card has 20 cards in the subset. So you would have to open 2,380 packs in order to get this card. And these, this was a premium product, so the packs back then were $5 each. So you'd have to open almost $12,000 worth of packs to pull this Jeter card. And this one's in a nine. And I bought it for $145. Yeah, but you're not talking about inflation in any way, Greg. So if you think about what $5 a pack was back then, that's I don't know, 15, $20. I don't know how, how much does inflation. $15. Now we'd have to Google $5 in 1997. Yeah. And this one is $53,000 in, in 1997 times. So that even more proves my point. Now, now again, I am. $10 is what it would be worth now per. Okay, $5. Yeah. So it's doubled in price. So instead of $53,000, then it's over $100,000. You'd have to spend opening packs to pull the artist proof blue card. Now, now again, I want to make it very clear that I am not a person who is claiming to have discovered any of this. But what I do think is, I think that something is overlooked. People look at pop reports, people look at serial numbers, people look at values, they look at grades, but they don't look at the true scarcity and what it actually would have taken to pull some of these cards. And I even went so far as to. I texted Chris Hoage and I said, you guys need to add pack odds to your database. Because pack odds are sort of this untapped thing like, like you might see this card right here and you go, oh, well, you know the registered gold red, it's one in 11 packs. Well, the artist proof one is 355, but nobody's ever heard of that card. Like 355 packs to pull one and there's 50 of them. Great. Last card before you move on. Well, you can take us off the, take that off the screen for a minute. The dirty little secret here that's not getting mentioned that a lot of people don't want us to mention, but I'm going to mention it anyway is that is value. Right. The value of these cards has the potential to go way up in the future. And I'm not saying you should go out and invest in these because I don't know, I don't know anything about card values except what's in my card ladder account and. But it seems to me that if you're finding these so cheap and it's a hot player, not, he's obviously not hot right now, but one of the all time greats. Yes, I admit it. Then there is potential down the road. We've seen this many, many times where cards catch on fire in the hobby. When people start discovering them, sometimes they get pumped. Some people might even say we're pumping right now, which is not the intent at all. There is potential for these cards, the late 90s refractors, to really catch on. And they've started to a little bit. Like I look at Pedro cards every single night and some of them have gone from $60 ten years ago to 600 now. Yeah. And it's, it's great. Some of them haven't too, which is weird. Some of them catch on and some of them don't. What you're describing is that some of these are an anomaly where the price is not proportionate with the, the rarity, with the, the supply of the cards. And in some cases maybe someone goes, well that's because I don't like the looks of that card. You know, the demand isn't there. Well, I do like the looks of this Jeter card. And so for me I think it's a lack of awareness because there were so many different products. It's not like it is now. Like there were so many different products, there were so many different manufacturers, there were so many different inserts in each. It takes research. And I'll be honest with you, one of the things I've been having the most fun with is going through set by set and going, all right, let's look at 97 select. Let's look at 96 select. Where is the rarity? Wait a second. This is one out of every tools of the trade. Mirror blue. Let me go into ebay or let me go into AuctionWire AI and use Auction Wire to type in 1997 select Tools of the trade mirror blue and see what's for sale. And see type in a player name. Is there a bonds in there? Is there a McGuire, a Sosa, whoever you collect and then go, wait a second, it's this amount. When I'm doing that it's so much fun. Now let me show you a little bit of a glimpse of what I think could happen. So this one is linchpins. Now those are die cut. Okay. This is a die cut set where the little like they look like little nails are actually die cut out of the card. Laser cut out. Okay. So this is the Jeter and this is a PSA8. Now these are 1 in 360 packs. What? Wait, what year is that? This is a 1999 Metal Universe Linchpins, Derek Jeter one and out of one in every 360 packs. Now here's the difference, okay? They had linchpins in other sports too. So because they had linchpins in other sports too, people are more aware of them. They type in linchpins into auction wire, they talk type in linchpins into ebay and they say oh look, There's a Mark McGuire card. Look there's a Derek Jeter card. Maybe I'll buy that. So they're more aware of them. So these other ones that I've been talking about like the 97 pinnacle, you know, team gold card there isn't that. So people are less aware of them. So this card, because linchpins were are more well known. This card was $600. Okay. Which if this card was of Michael Jordan would it would be like a six thousand dollar card probably more than a six thousand dollars card. Yeah. So there's a Barry Sanders, you know, there's a Randy Moss. So I think that as information and what a lot of these apps like card ladder. And by the way, if you're listening, we do have a promo code for card ladder. It is SCC which will get you. What does it get you? I always forget what does it get you? A free month or I think you can also 20 off the full year. So yeah, it's a free month which I think is the longest you're going to find anywhere is a full free month through card Ladder. And then we also have. You've mentioned auction wire a couple times. We also have and this is complicated. The code is also SCC, so not complicated at all. Also SEC for two free months of AuctionWire AI, which is an amazing tool. We recommend that and car ladder. So if you want to nerd out like I've been doing, you know, you can go in and literally you can go in and you can find some of these sets, find some of the long pack odds, go to AuctionWire AI for two months for free. You could search for, you know, the different parallels or insert sets that are, you know, rare. Then you can go into card ladder and comp to see what they normally sell for, see what the pop report is on them. And I've been having a lot of fun doing it and what I've been doing is I've been buying the anomalies for 130 bucks, 140 bucks, 150 bucks and it's been really, really fun. And I genuinely think at some point as the data tools continue to be easier to use and easier to use. I mean now when you go to ebay they have like that PSA Insights tool and it will show you the population, it'll show you some comps and stuff powered by Card Ladder. I think with some of that happening, I think things like pack odds are going to start to catch on and I think that people are going to go, wait a second. The PMG card, which is one in, I don't know, we'll just say 1500 packs. Right now that card is selling for $20,000, but this other card is one in 400 packs and it's selling for a hundred dollars. Like I think that disparity is going to start to close as it's easier to find this information and the tools that we're mentioning are part of what are making it so easy. Can we tell, can we tell Chris Hoge to wait to add this until we've gotten all the ones that we want. I'm looking at all of the linchpins and unfortunately there were none with the Red Sox. There should have been a Pedro Martinez. There are only 10 of them. The Jeter, the Maddox. No, sorry, the Jeter, the Kerry Wood and the Mike Piazza are the best looking of the 10. I think the Jeter one was really good. Beautiful. Yeah, I really like the look of the jeer one and that's one of the reasons I was willing to pay up for it. The, the, the orange and yellow background is pretty cool. I think the McGuire is a pretty cool looking one. So anyways, that's what I've been doing and I haven't really, I mean, hey, I was on a cruise ship and, and you know, eating, you know, lobster and shrimp cocktail and just buying, you know, doing a little bit of data research and stuff. It's been fun I mean, and so yes, you definitely were part of the movement toward me enjoying these things. And I know people out there are, because I see it at card shows, I go to card shows and people say, you're just a modern collector now. Like, no, I'm not. I'm just a modern collector also for. Yeah, you're a card collector for anybody who's wondering why I'm joking about taking credits. Because we did a podcast six months or so ago where you said, should I collect modern cards? And I said 100 you should. I love, I love that era. And I know it started in 93 with the top finest refractors, but didn't really get big until even later than 95 is probably more like 97 ish where it started getting big. Topps Chrome refractors came out in 96, I think was the first year of them. And then you started having Pacific and you had so many different sets between 96 and 2000 that are so much fun and it is a be, be prepared for a massive rabbit hole. And it was also an era where we weren't necessarily kids, but we were teenagers, you know, late teens, early 20s. And you know, we had a little bit of free time on our hands. We were probably going to more games. We were probably watching a little bit more than we were over the next few years when we started having kids and started getting married and all that kind of stuff. So it's sort of a very nostalgic time. It's also a time period where a lot was happening. Like you had the Pedro's and the David Ortiz and the Greg Maddox and the Roger Clemens and the, you know, this, the, the Ken Griffey Juniors and the Barry Bonds and I mean, it was like a very special time. It was sort of like a, a second golden era of, of, of players and you know, The Sammy Sosa McGuire sort of thing that happened and reignited things. And so it's a cool time. I like to make my green. Well, you know this. I have a Mike Greenwell autograph that I got in person along the first baseline at the Oakland Coliseum. Like, I, I like Mike Greenwell and you know, rest in peace, Mike Greenwell. Yeah, I have one last thing I want to throw out too. And, and, and I, I don't think it's going to open a huge can of worms, but I do want to throw it out there. Sports cards, sports card radio. They've been kind of quiet for a while. And I was in the airport, long story, for eight hours yesterday. And as I was sitting in the airport. I, you know, I was scrolling through YouTube and I watched a lot of stuff. Yesterday it's, I got a notification that sports card radio went live. So I started watching it and I was like, what? They haven't gone live in so long. Like, there must be something that is, you know, an interesting, especially interesting that they want to talk about. And there's Ryan and there's Colin and, and Ryan is the one that doesn't have a wife and kids. And he basically, he's always tooling around with technology and stuff. Yeah, he's been posting a lot of stuff about, you know, he's using Claude code to find comps and then buy cards and then sell them. Yeah, he's basically going and using AI to find cards that are selling for way under comp. He's then having Gixon do auto bidding for him for those cards up to a point where there's a good enough margin. And so he's, he's having Claude say, these are the players I'm interested in, find ones that are a good deal, give me bid prices that would make them a good deal. And then once he buys them, he's immediately relisting them with Claude and making money. He's like, I'm not doing anything. I just trained Claude to do what I wanted to do and it made me start to think how many people are doing this and is this maybe part of what's happening with prices? Are prices maybe changing because the low hanging fruit is easier to find and then relist at the more appropriate price? I mean, let's just take a hypothetical for a second and then I'll let you give me your full response. What if you taught AI to find cards that had buy it now prices below the PSA instant offer amounts and we're in the PSA vault. So if you started putting the parameters in place and you said it has to be in the PSA vault, the buy it now price has to be less than the instant offer price on PSA from PSA's Partner Program. How do you know what that instant price is? You can look up a card like if you look up a card like I was with standing next to a friend at a card show and he looked up a card on ebay to comp it and he goes, he looked in, the card was like $45. And he goes, look, the instant offer price is 70. I'm just going to buy it and I'll sell it to psa. And I'm like, it seems like you wouldn't be selling it to psa, you'd be selling it to a PSA partner. Right. Sorry, I don't understand. If you don't have the card already in your vault or. Or having been graded, where are you looking up PSA offer price? I've never seen this before. I. I could look and see. I've seen PSA offer prices, to be clear. But you have to have the card from. Maybe it's old because it's been a year since I saw this, but you had to have the card to see what a PSA offer price was. I'll try one. Because, I mean, I saw this happen and I don't know. CNPSA estimate. Yeah. That's not accurate enough. That's not a thing. It's a thing, but it's not. No, what I saw was there was an instant offer. They're using Ryan, I believe, based on the newsletters he sent out, which I enjoy, is using Card Ladder. No, he's. He's using it public because you can't. You can't have Claude code or CLAUDE log into your Card Ladder account. So he's. He's asking it to go out and find any public safety sales within the last X number of months and using those as his comps. Yes, that's right. And. And he's even shared that there were some times where there was like an erroneous mislisted card and so it said, you should buy this card and it went into Gixon and it bid on the card and it was like, no, well, that one was actually autographed or something. Right. And so it screwed the comp up. Yeah. And so he's like. But what he was explaining was, well, these per. These allow you to continue to improve the training of the AI to eliminate some of those erroneous sorts of things. Yeah, Just kind of blew my mind because I don't look at this hobby that way, you know, I just don't. It doesn't even cross my mind, as this would just make sense. But. But people are doing that. And then I started thinking, well, how could this be affecting the. The values and the true values of collectors versus people who are literally buying to the it. I don't know how much of this sort of thing is happening. Well, you're buying below comps, theoretically, if, you know, if it's working the way it's supposed to. You're buying below comps and then you're selling for slightly above comps. The examples that Ryan has shown in. In on Twitter, and in his newsletter, he's getting $8 in profit on a car. He's getting $6 in profit on a card. And somebody might look at that and say, well, that's ridiculous. That's not worth it. Well, what is it not worth? It's taking you zero time. You built an engine, and that engine goes out and does all the work for you. And so if he's making $6 profit per card and the AI does all the work and buys 50. Buys and sells 50 cards a day, that's 300 bucks. You didn't do any work for. Well, he did do work. He taught AI, and that's the work that he did. And then, yeah, yeah, he's. He's taught it, he's built it. Is bad for the hobby, this sort of thing? Is it? Is that okay? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it just an opportunity? I think it's an opportunity. I, I would love to hear somebody's thoughts if they think that this is bad for the hobby. But it's very little different from somebody just going out and buying cards slightly under comps and selling them for five or ten dollars more and making a small profit. People do this all day, every day without AI. And now he's just automated it. And you need to have a budget like you could. How much is his budget per day? We don't know that. That's where it got super sideways is they started talking about they have a PayPal loan that is funding it. So they have a PayPal loan. I don't, I don't want to misspeak and say it wrong, but it sounded like they got a PayPal loan to buy all this inventory to then start listing it at the appropriate price. So they actually weren't out any money. And they were explaining that a lot of businesses will, will get loans to buy inventory at wholesale, to sell at retail when there's a margin. So certainly we're not providing any investment advice. I'm. I'm just merely sharing what these guys were saying that they were doing. And it was just. It was the thing. My, My takeaway was not necessarily, this is good, this is bad, this is indifferent. It was. It's interesting. Is interesting. And then I started thinking after the fact, well, how does that affect everybody? Or does it affect everybody? Yeah. Is it just a different way of now sourcing things? Yeah, he's got like 20 players that he looks for. It's not looking for all players he listed off, you know, I don't know, 12 to 20 players. The hot ones that are easy sells. Michael Jordan, Steph Curry, Shohei Ohtani that you're not, you're not looking up Trey Turner or Freddie Freeman in this thing. It's cards that you know you can sell, but you also have to have an appetite for a little bit of patience because if you buy a card for 250 and list it for 325, a lot of people are going to say, hey, that, that comps at 250. And then it may not sell for a little while, but a lot of them are going to because these guys are so hot that they're, they're going up and going up and going up. Yeah. And yeah. Anyway, so I don't, I, I wasn't thinking that any of this conversation would last as long as it had, but I've been having fun researching and researching pack odds and researching new sets and cards and inserts and then buying ones. And, and let me be clear, I'm not buying cards that are long pack odds just because they're long pack odds. I'm using the pack odds as an inspiration to then look at cards that I then find that I go, I like that card. And that's crazy. That's 120 bucks. And it was one in 180 packs or and there was 20 of them and you start working it that way. But if you look at all of the cards that I just showed, like, I think they're cool looking cards that I like having of specific players that I think are, I think it, I, I, it has been fun for me. I'll just, I'll say that at the very least, and I'm, I've added to my Jeter collection. So. The Lynch Pins is one of the nicest looking cards ever. Yeah, I agree. And, and again, the fact that they're in different sports as well is pretty cool. Yeah. So. All right, buddy, any parting thoughts for anybody? Me, the world. I'm glad you had a great time in Alaska. Glad you're back. Glad my podcast buddy is back. We're doing a lot of really cool things here on the clubhouse and I hope people are checking out the Hangover Jeremy Lee show. We also have all these extra innings episodes that happen. They aren't the same episodes that you see on those other people's channels. They are additional short bites of episodes. The hit list. We got Mike Petty and, and Tony. There's. It's so much fun. It's. Most of what I listen to is on this network now. And, and we should shout out the newest edition, which is going to be, I think about once a month is my understanding, Sammy Thunder and Orlando of a collector's dream. Those two guys go to tons of card shows, and so what they're doing is they're kind of sharing updates, reports of what's happening in the card show scene. And they've also developed a network of dealers that they are kind of checking in with. So there's sort of some regional updates as well. I have a Southern California dealer that I connected them with and Midwest dealer, and south and Northeast to kind of say what's selling around there. And, and they're. They're going to start doing their own podcast, but they're going to do an extra additional segment here as well. So, you know, that's a big part of what we wanted to do here with this new channel is be a hub where there's a lot of opinions. It's not just one person like there is on an individual channel, but get a lot of input from a lot of different people. And. And it's been fun. So. Yeah, and I. Did I miss an extra innings? Isn't there a third one? Well, me and Darren have one. Yes. Thank you. We finally. Yeah, we finally started doing our. We do our. Off topic now. We're doing it. Yeah. But aside from this one, obviously this is the best podcast in the world. But the one, my second favorite podcast is you and David Chase. You guys have great rapport. It's fun. It's a ton of fun. And I just, I love listening to that one. It's. It's a must. Listen as soon as it comes out or as soon as I have a free moment every week. Well, that's every other week. David's a good guy, so he's all right. For sure. All right, buddy, talk to you soon. All right, See.