Rating The Monster Hits Pulled and Big Chase Cards Announced Recently; More Quality Prospects To Chase in 2024 Bowman Draft?; Blind Rank These $25K Sports Cards

You're listening to Cards to the Moon, a podcast about trading cards from both a collector and investor perspective. We hope you'll stick around for the ride as we take a deep dive into the state of the hobby, share some hot takes, hopefully some useful advice and fun stories along the way. Hey guys, welcome back to Cards to the Moon. This is episode 258 and my name is Clark from 5cardguys.com and 5cardguys on Instagram and on YouTube. Co-hosting with me, as usual, is Hyung of Integrity Sports Cards. This week, John's away, but he should be back with us next week. All right, off the top, in last week's episode, John and I talked about the John Elway baseball card. Yes, not his football card, but his baseball card that was put into this year's Bowman draft release. That's because he was drafted by the Yankees. I'm sure not a lot of people knew about that, but obviously John Elway, he decided to become a quarterback instead for the Denver Broncos winning two Super Bowls there. Just played episode 256, I believe it was, and you can hear what we thought, John and I, about this Elway chase card, whether it's too gimmicky or if we thought it was fun and cool. Today, I want to talk about the prospect and rookie hits out of this set. We saved this discussion for you, Hyung, since you know a lot more about baseball prospects than either John or myself. Off the top of your head, Hyung, who are the guys on the checklist you'd be happy to hit from 2024 Bowman draft? Obviously Bowman draft is a big launch for the Bowman brand. There's three main launches, Bowman, Bowman Chrome, and then Bowman draft. Everybody gets excited this time because it's all the drafted prospects that are up and coming. This is something to note. A lot of people don't understand, I guess, the business side of NCAA sports, but over the last couple of years, they've changed the rule in terms of this thing called the transfer portal. This is where Paul Skeens transferred to LSU and he's able to now, at a high school, maybe he wasn't the guy, but then as he developed, he's able to transfer. That changes a lot of things because usually without the transfer portal, you'd have to sit out a year and then basically lose eligibility. This new transfer portal now totally changes it because what happens is college guys can play a year, let's just say at LSU, and then they could transfer to Houston the next year without sitting out a year. Why that matters is you have an influx of stud baseball players in college that aren't even playing because there's only a roster of, there's only so many schools, there's only so many players that play. A lot of these college guys transfer schools and end up becoming dudes that can actually play for other schools. Why that matters is the recruiting process for high school kids now. If you're a college coach and you could get a 21-year-old from Vanderbilt that didn't play last year but he's had two years of experience as opposed to that 18-year-old guy whose knees are knocking because he's so nervous, who are you going to pick? You're going to most likely pick the college transfer and that's what's been happening. I think in general, one, high school draft pick changes because now the odds of you starting as a high school freshman is very, very low. So now you're picking out the best guys in high school that are going to pro ball. So those are your high schoolers that are first-rounders and then you have a boatload of college guys now that are just studs because they have to perform. And high school guys, you really don't know because you're going based off of athleticism, raw tools. We'll see how they perform against higher competition. So with that said, that dynamic has changed, meaning I feel like even Bowman draft is getting stronger and stronger because now you're getting a lot more dudes that are producing at the college level because the rules are changing and even the NIL with being able to make money now. So the whole landscape is changing and I think one, Bowman draft is going to get stronger and stronger. So you'll have lesser high school kids, more polished college guys which you start seeing now. So with that said, there's not a lot of high school guys that you're chasing anymore, at least in Bowman draft. But then a lot of guys are a lot older now. Whereas Bowman 2025 international signings, they're signing at 16, 17 years old and then that really young prospect chase obviously comes out of that Bowman and Bowman Chrome release. So with that said, a lot more older guys, always older guys but guys that may make the big leagues really quick. When you say older guys, early 20s. Early 20s, yeah. That would be considered older guys because we're so used to prospecting and then it's this high school guys that don't even have at bats that are selling higher than major league stars. Hobby logic. Hobby logic. Like I said, prospecting, it goes on a different scale because the selling period and buying period are way more volatile because there's action within that. So you can't use the hobby logic of generic, Mookie Betz is worth this much. Why is this guy worth this much? There's different volatility within that timeframe that allows it to be volatile. With that said, there's a couple big chases I think that everybody are after. I think Jack Caglione is kind of like the big chase because of the news with Shohei Ohtani, two-way players, can they exist? This guy comes up, massive, massive Ohtani type figure. Even from a specimen, I call him specimen, not even body prospecting because they're not of this world. You have these guys that are hitting 30 plus home runs in college and they throw 100 miles an hour. Right. Right? Robots. Yeah. So that becomes a massive, massive chase in itself. I would say the top two prospects coming out of that product are Jack Caglione and Travis Bazzana which is interesting because he's a guy that just absolutely rakes. He's an Australian. First time ever an Australian gets picked first overall for the Cleveland Guardians. So I think there's a massive chase on that side too because there was so much hype. But again, these guys are all college guys. These guys aren't high school guys that have raw tools only and it's like a coin flip. These guys are guys that could potentially make the big league level in the next year or two. Right? You have a pretty strong, I would say in general, release in Bowman Draft. But then again, with prospecting, you know the risks. I believe it's a sell now product. So there's this hype of chase and then it's like everybody wants it so they're buying and then it's like now it's dependent on how well they do at that upper tier minor league level. Right. But yeah, I mean there's a few names I'll pass on. Nick Kurtz, massive first baseman on the Oakland Athletics or Las Vegas we would say now. But these guys are hitting 30 plus home runs in college. You never had that before. Right? So these guys are like 6'4", 6'5". Just absolutely units that have 40 home run, 30, 40 home run potential in the big leagues. So Brayden Montgomery is an interesting guy. I really like Brayden Montgomery. He's a 5-tool type player. Another college guy out of Texas A&M. He's one of my favorites in terms of like, because I'm always looking for the next Acuna. The next 5-tool Jackson shirt. So you have a lot of guys like Nick Kurtz that, you know, just power guys. Donkey, Pete Alonzo type guys. But then my whole thing is who's the 5-tool player. So Brayden Montgomery is a very interesting pick. He was 12th overall for the Red Sox. You have a guy Connor Griffin for the Pirates. Now he's a high school guy. So if you're into high school, more kind of like younger guys that you're like, OK, who's the next Mike Trout type of guy? Where you want to sit on him a bit longer, follow his minor league career. I think Connor Griffin for the Pirates, he's a shortstop, outfielder. I think he could play shortstop. He's going to hit. You have Bryce Rayner of the Tigers, 11th pick overall, another high school guys. Other than that, it's all college guys. It's all college guys that kind of like are performance-based, right? So and then lastly, there's two big names that were left off Bowman draft to note. So one is Charlie Condon. He was the fourth pick overall for the Rockies. This guy was a walk-on at Georgia. He ends up hitting like 35, 40 home runs or whatever it is and just becomes an absolute superstar and becomes a fourth pick. This guy signed with Colorado. So this guy might hit like 50, 60 home runs if he pants out in Colorado at Coors Field just because of the atmosphere. So it's like guys like that were left out of Bowman draft because I believe the class was strong enough where they created the chase. And then with international signings in 2025 Bowman, you'll have guys like Charlie Condon and J.J. Weatherholt for the Cardinals who are very, very good players. We're talking these guys are going to be very interesting to watch in terms of they could make a major league impact within the next year, two years, right? So you have a lot of those players I find within this class. Nice. Yeah. I appreciate all that background. I didn't know anything about just the makeup of this set because of how what you're talking about in terms of the transfer portal. So that's very useful to know. And if you look at the box, obviously Caglione and Bazzana are the cover guys. So those are the obvious chases. The other question I want to ask kind of a follow up is, everyone's talking about this in the hobby. More specifically, it's about the current price point, right? I just looked it up on David Adams. The jumbo box is going for 550 US, which is about 800 Canadian. It's kind of crazy if you think about it because, man, we're creeping up to the $1,000 per box. It's crazy. It's nuts. So what do you think about the price point based on, especially on what you just mentioned that there are more college guys. So there's still a lot of volatility. Don't get me wrong in terms of prospecting, but maybe not as much as it was before when there were much, there are a lot more high school guys and you're just kind of guessing and hoping to hit the jackpot. I could see that, but here's the thing. At the end of the day, if we strip out everything and just go back to the bare bones of economics, the price is dictated on supply demand. So meaning if somebody's chasing Jack Caglione and hits a red and that thing sells for $7,000 or $10,000, that's going to directly reflect everything in terms of the chase, right? Because people are calculating the ROI saying, well, if I do hit it, it's worth it, right? And then there's, like I said, if now none of those top prospects sell and it has happened in the past where there's no chase, then no one's going to rip. So it goes hand in hand and us to us who are looking at it from outside in, we're just monitoring the prices without really taking into account what actually goes into it. Then you have to justify who's spending thousands of dollars on Jack Caglione. Well, if he's the next Shohei Otani, what are Shohei Otani's prices? And that behavior itself ends up creating that massive, massive supply demand, right? Which is exactly what fanatics knows. They know how to create that chase because they're creating that supply demand at the end of the day and box prices will dictate that supply, whether or not it's fanatics. Because think, if fanatics releases at half price, $400, what do you think is going to happen in terms of the secondary market? It's going to correct itself to wherever the demand is. So people are going to sell out at, you know, buy at fanatics at $400 and then resell it at whatever the demanded price is. So it's like, you can't really blame fanatics, you can't blame anything, it's our human behavior. Blame ourselves that we're having this illusion that, you know, a Jack Caglione card goes for that much. For me, it's like Caglione had not an outstanding minor league career so far and he hasn't even really pitched. Yes, he throws $100, but we're very far from it. But it's the speculation game that we play that ends up… It's always about the potential, right? It's always about the potential and that's all they need in the prospecting game. 100% agree. And then the fundamentals become the minor league seasons. So you have a league that they should dominate, so price action should actually increase as their careers go. And then this is where the steep fall happens because you're trying to do that at the highest level now and they kind of fit in more so than dominate, right? And then with that said, this is why the bigger stars go for what? they go for because they're doing it at the highest level yep and uh you know to your point and we'll wrap it up after this in terms of our off the top segment but i was looking at the price of 2021 bowman draft jumbo right and you know that was purple sky when it first came out and uh the cover guys if you remember are henry davis and marcello mayor oh yeah that's right so i mean you know they're not bust but the shine has definitely worn off on those guys right you know um and and every year they got to prove themselves even more before they essentially be forgotten or they're just kind of dropped absolutely i and i think that as as someone who is involved that's a good way to kind of look at previous trends and that's the best way to kind of get a idea with that said you got to keep in mind 2021 draft didn't have the transfer portal at the time so so these are things that we don't know maybe there is no change maybe it's the same trend in the next couple years i think in my opinion as the years go on bowman draft is going to get stronger and stronger because now the draft game is changing because of the transfer portal yeah and i don't think i mentioned the price but the 2024 bowman draft obviously we mentioned that it's uh about 550 600 us you get the 2021 bowman draft for about 400 that went down a lot because that was that was up up uh near the price when it was hot and i'll leave it at this the reason why i don't mind bowman draft too is at the end of the day you look at all three products of bowman prospects bowman's the worst to rip because your hobby boxes are getting one auto yeah right so it's like and then i don't know i'm not maybe jumbo is three autos but it's so expensive and then you have your bowman chrome uh release which has two autos in hobby and then htas are three and then bowman draft are three and five so jumbos are five autos so at least you get the extra two autos in that jumbo box where and it's always been that way where bowman draft will have the most autos in terms of what you're paying for in terms of getting an auto whereas if you're ripping a hobby box in a couple months of 2025 bowman chasing you're getting one auto and now you're trying to hit like crazy odds right yeah no that's a good point all right i'm glad uh we reserved that discussion uh for you hyung you wouldn't have gone this in depth if we did it last week um without you all right now let's go on to our next segment we call hobby headlines all right so if you're on social media it seems there's a bunch of awesome hits posted as well as new chase cards announced over the past couple weeks so i want to highlight several of these cards and and let's just discuss each one and i want us to rate it okay let's say on a scale of one to ten how cool we think you know these cards are okay so i want to start off with the mlb debut patch cards from 2024 tops chrome update uh the paul skeens debut batch card hasn't been pulled yet as of this recording but the two jacksons have so the the first one jackson cheerios mlb debut patch one of one and then jackson holidays debut patch one of one card both pulled two monster hits um i want you to tell me which one would you rather have first and then uh oh yeah which one would you be more excited about hitting well i i believe they're both redemption so we didn't haven't seen the beauty of the card yet or maybe there is a digital version or a picture of it but um one i think i think they've done a phenomenal job with building the hype around these cards because obviously if you get major league baseball players involved it creates a whole different ball game of supply demand because there's only one in the world with that said i'm a big believer in jackson cheerio especially like his prices especially what he's done already as a 20 year old in the big leagues you know and i i believe that you know he's under priced compared to jackson holiday because obviously jackson holiday came with an enormous hype and he has yet to i guess uh fulfill that so there is that hope in jackson holiday where if he goes off i mean he's gonna have a way higher ceiling than jackson cheerio but that's the thing do you believe that he will be able to be successful off major league baseball pitching and the baltimore orioles have a ridiculous lineup they just signed tyler o'neill which is another right-handed stick you know you have you have some serious firepower in that baltimore lineup so a young kid like jackson hall they might do really well with a lot of protection and and he would learn really quick i think within that baltimore lineup so there's a lot going with jackson hall even though he had a buck 80 in the big leagues last year cheerio 2020 in his first year right so and that was with a slow start so for me at one point he was batting nine hole so you know you get cheerio to where he needs to be and his prices basically aren't as strong i'm i'm going with jackson cheerio just because i like his upside i like his game i like milwaukee brewers in general in terms of how they're building um but like i said i two two massive massive cards both jacksons are are pulled and i think i think they will fetch a premium in both cases for sure 100% agree um if you were to rate them 1 to 10 what would you rate both these mlb debut patch cards and not just uh based on the you know within the mlb debut patch set but just in overall in terms of the the hobby these cards i gotta give it a 10 man like i know it's it's it's ridiculous but like i would give this super fractor foam and chrome autos a 10 too like these are the ultimate there are no better cards than these cards out there i don't care what anybody says your tops chrome rookie super fractors will not replace any of these cards the most demanded cards will be one the bohman chrome for super fractor of each player and then a close second right now would be the mlb debut patch right so for me it's it's a 10 it it's what drives the hobby at the highest level and the highest price point you know what you uh you convinced me i want to go give it a 10 as well for that for that reason that it's it's a it's a pure baseball card collector can appreciate this and it's not one of those gimmicky chases that we hear so often these days right which i don't mind you know like the john elway card we talked about that before but um i did a what do you call it photoshop picture of otani's mlb debut patch one of one whether if that existed yeah i think that'll be way bigger than the super factor all right so as as these cards you know if holiday becomes the player he does cheerio becomes the player he does this debut patch is going to be massive for any hardcore baseball card collector that likes to have their rookie cards right and i think i think it's going to age really well i think uh the the debut patch hasn't really reached its potential because i think over a time period where superstars form and then new record sales emerge i think this is where we'll see uh i guess the potential of the mlb debut patches right now it's a young market so you don't really see these superstars other than i guess paul caskeens would be the biggest chase so far that we've seen yeah right so as they age right it's like fine wine man it's gonna it's gonna be more uh sought after like you said if if there was an otani version how big of a chase would that be and but at the same time is like would you if it's manufactured at a future date does that give the same allure as that bowman chrome super factor that was done i don't think so 2018 yeah so for me otani still that bowman chrome super factor is like an untouchable card because of the history already yeah i mean when i made that real it was an alternate reality scenario that existed in 2018 yeah when you've debuted absolutely yeah yeah absolutely um but no i agree with you and i won't get deeper into this but like even the mlb debut patch of you know guys like david schneider toronto local guys or you know the guys that aren't as big and obviously overshadowed by these bigger chases for sure you know they're for you know two thousand bucks i know that's a lot of money but compared to what jackson tree on jackson holiday will fetch if you just pay two thousand bucks you love this player and he becomes a really good player that's going to be the card the best card that you can have of that player so there's plays in that spectrum as well because and i have a lot of those cards i believe i believe if fanatics was smart what they would do is they would start getting more players involved so that there's utility involved in that as well because then you because think if you have like david schneider for instance it's not going to sell hot on this market but there is a niche collective that would go after that because they're a blue jay fan they they've watched schneider and they they love nobody knows who david schneider is we as hometown you know toronto people we're like he's a dude right because he at times he was a hero when we needed him to be right so but if you have if you now create demand supply demand with those players involved where you could do stuff like go on field bp with david schneider or whatever that's included in these debut patches this is where i think the future of the hobby becomes a lot more i guess lucrative in terms of it's not just about exchanging money and this is where we start talking about those experiences that you know i think fanatics is going to eventually go to because if you think about their marketing tactics as well as their strengths in apparel um you know being able to put an mlb debut patch on somebody's jersey that like that that's so creative in terms of you know now you have an on-game patch auto that previous tops wasn't doing right so it's this this is the evolution of creativity that fanatics has the resources to do that takes it to the next level totally yeah you know like even as you're talking you could say anyone that has an mlb debut patch you can come out to the all-star game amazing yeah like exactly amazing like that that in itself would be would be crazy yeah yeah for sure i like that um there you go free idea for you tops fanatics all right i'm going to shift away from the mlb debut patch and this card was announced it hasn't been pulled but it will be in the 2024 tops definitive set talking about the shouhei otani dual autograph card and not dual auto in the terms of two different players dual auto in the sense that one is otani's english auto and the other is otani's kanji auto one of one how are you rating this card what do you think honestly tops keeps on doing it they they find a way to keep that demand you think oh another otani card another like chase after the hype but it's super cool it's like i want that card not gonna lie i wouldn't complain like that's another chase right that becomes a chase for that set where definitive i would probably pass in the past yeah right right so it's like i think it's super cool i i would give it you know a nine because for me it's like that's upper tier stuff this is stuff that's never been done so for me it's like i guarantee you every like right now the kanji market auto for otani is insane you like i don't know what it is with the baseball now but you're talking five to ten grand i i look at prices lately but for baseball like because they're super rare right so tops is milking the whole process of being able to capitalize whether it's tops now whether it's moments to now creating cooler products and chases right so at the end of the day they did it again it's like i'm impressed with the result because we didn't have this before yeah no it definitely seems like they have their ear to the ground you know like everyone's talking about how cool the kanji autos are in general you know as more japanese players come into the league for sure and and they're playing off of that so that's kind of cool to see i'm going to give it an eight just because and i kind of half joked in our sports car chat group saying that his english auto is the new one so i'm going to dock it a mark if it was makes sense if it was this rookie auto english uh um yeah auto style then uh it would get a nine but uh no it's a really cool card and i love it that they kept it a one of one you know just make it rare and then that's even makes it even a bigger chase all right another one of one there was a hundred thousand dollar bounty from david adams and i'm not sure if it's still applicable because they issued the bounty when the first came out but it was recently pulled it's a lou garrig retro factor super factor we talked about the retro factor super factor in general what we thought of it i'm wondering if you change your mind on those kind of cards um at all i do like that they're ssps like super super rare in general it's not like a regular bowman chrome first kind of like hit right just in general i think it's limited regardless to color autos there's like i don't i don't know if there are bases but i don't think so but like it's very limited so for me it's uh no autos for lou garrig obviously oh yeah no auto sorry just just uh numbered parallels yes yeah so like for me yeah lou garrig sign and that's a whole different ball game right it was like that mickey man old yeah we pulled a mickey man auto it's like what on a new era hat shout out dc that was good times i know he's listening because he's a he's a loyal listener check out the youtube video we filmed it and we're just you know we're in the moment okay but we caught ourselves yeah yeah anyway i would be happy if i pulled that card for sure yeah but then like i said going back to artificial bounties i'm happy as a collector if i pull that because it's not worth a hundred thousand dollars no it isn't right so there's that side of things but from a hobby perspective i'm not i'm not like i would say like a six maybe like i i think it's it's more gimmicky i'd rather have original Lou Gehrig vintage card you know where that's what you're chasing right like and that's the beauty of vintage is it has its own space we don't have to recreate that because now the Bowman Chromes will eventually be somewhat vintage as the years go by right so it's like recreating that for the sake of creating buzz right now with artificial bounties doesn't necessarily like I guess peak my interest other than if I were to pull it I'd be thrilled because I would have a bounty to cash out instead of selling that card for 5,000 bucks or whatever yeah no I mean not much more to say to that it's it's your definition of what manufacture scarcity is all about and and yeah if you get it you're selling it right away anyways it's not even for me not for the PC if I had pulled it so I'm giving it a 5 and I haven't changed my mind on Retrofractive Superfine I don't mind that they put it in that's the set for a chase but it's not for me right okay next card Juan Soto we haven't talked about Juan Soto yet this is our first episode we're recording since he signed that 15 year 765 million dollar contract but that's not the only thing he signed he also signed a Tops Now card and there's a parallel card number to 10 number to 5 and number 1 of 1 but the number 1 of 5 will be inscribed my first Mets auto so I want to talk about that card your thoughts on a deciding and be this card the signing is crazy I think like obviously you know Blue Jays obviously we're used as another leverage yeah yeah I didn't I knew that that's why I didn't even participate in the chat I was like guys man we're not gonna get Soto it one it doesn't make sense from the Blue Jays stamp I would not invest that much I could build a whole good team with that budget so it's like one Soto didn't make sense in Toronto to it's crazy because it's the largest sports contract in history like not baseball we're talking sports contract and there was something that took all the big contracts in the NHL it was like five contracts and they did they barely equal Juan Soto's contract which is insane just to give you perspective yes so with that being said massive massive contract New York Mets they're gonna be very good I mean they're building they're building with with money obviously but the card itself I think it's phenomenal like like I said these are real cards that I think will hold value given that Soto becomes you know the Hall of Fame trajectory that he has because you look back at the tops now brand and what the potential is right you look back at the Otani tops now that you know fanatics release those are all valuable because they hold significant value in terms of what it stands for and what it represents as opposed to any manufactured you know bounties that that create a false illusion of true value I would say but I would think there would be a massive massive demand for these cards because it's that moment where Soto signed the biggest sports contract in the whole world so you look back let's just say you know you had whoever in like at the time of Mickey Mantle that he signed his contract and you have that moment you know with you so for me it's like that's what we're talking about that's what collectibles are all about where it's real value of real moments and that tops now brand kind of brings that possibility yeah no you know I really didn't even think about it from that sense in terms of like the angle of the biggest sports contract signed you know whether that can ever be broken I'm sure over time it will be because things just become inflated yeah just inflation itself so yeah so people will throw money and you know there'll be records broken so in that sense I guess for now for the moment and I guess it's appropriate for a tops now card to have something like this it's cool but you know like and then I was looking more on the side of you know his first Mets Auto card you know just last year in tops heritage he signed my first Yankees Auto card I don't think this is just my hunch I don't think the Mets will be Juan Soto's last team either I think there is an opt-out clause at some point you know when he becomes 30 something you know closer to mid 30s you know there's a there's a possibility that he might go to another team depending on how his career is going at that point you know five ten years down the line so I think even that will lose its novelty for sure so it's it's cool for the moment but yeah you know if I'm looking at it for a long term I'm you know it's just a basic six seven for me I I don't see value necessarily like I I did see value in his New York Yankees uniform because if he was a long-term Yankee and right you know he established to be an all-time great of a Yankee then that first Auto card difference yeah like very very bad like I really like that red ink but now that he's with the Mets that red ink New York Yankees kind of is like okay does anybody want even Juan Soto San Diego cards do we remember that San Diego had Juan Soto there you know I mean so it's stuff like that which it worked out super well for the Padres anyways I think that was a phenomenal trade at the end of the day because the Padres are gonna be really good now because of that trade and they showed it last year they're gonna build off that but going back to Soto and the Mets yeah I would I would rank it probably a 7 or 8 I just like the whole tops now brand and what they're doing with it because it becomes a chase because at the end of the day it's not Ohtani it's Juan Soto now it's a massive contract that was in the news if I hit that auto I'd be pumped you know I'd be I'd be like you know what this is this is a really cool card that I would want myself and if the price was right I would probably do well you know selling it so there's a lot of upside to the card I think the collective agree with this point otherwise you know you know there wouldn't be as much hype but right now like I said the way the way marketing works is how many people are aware of Juan Soto's contract right it's the whole world the whole sports world knows about Juan Soto's contract whether it's basketball baseball everybody's every NBA player is like holy crap I should have played baseball right you know I mean so at the end of the day that's marketing yeah it's definitely I'm beginning to see a lot of these memes and and posts on Instagram saying parents get your kids into baseball and they show like the largest contracts you know from Ohtani to Soto and you know all these hundred million dollar contracts being sold out right now and I will say this because I'm involved in baseball development guys kids it's not about the money there's less than a 1% chance you even play college or professional baseball or whatever the number is so yeah take it for what it is reality yes good note of reality there okay I got a bonus card for you before we go to our next section it kind of it's kind of related to you know making Topps definitive set more wanted I guess with Shohei Ohtani dual auto chase in 2024 diamond icons which is you know like not for everyone but you can get the Mariano Rivera one-of-one game used Logoman card they're making Logoman cards a thing what do you think about that you know Logoman's typically not as big as it is in the NBA you know not as recognizable not as wanted but I guess they're trying to make it a thing for baseball cards what do you think yeah I I'm not gonna say I don't like it yet because I think it it could have potential but I feel like this this generation is totally different they don't see even Barry Bonds as something right it was just insane like our age group everybody who is I would say 35 plus they know that Barry Bonds was was the man like it doesn't matter where you sit on the fence you cannot deny he is one of the greatest of all times in terms of hitting so like at the end of the day this generation might not value that as much right so I I don't know if there will be a demand for it until something relevant comes into play like Mariano Rivera like like I said I would he's a Hall of Famer he's one of the greatest closers of all time and I guarantee you'll get no love right yeah so it's it's one of those things where marketing comes into play are they relevant whereas someone like Soto he's in the news every day he's doing bigger things Oh Tony's in the news every day so this generation only sees that true so something of yeah kind of reminds me I don't know why I was watching this maybe the YouTube algorithm was feeding it to me I was watching a Joe Rogan podcast and this was from a few years ago but I think it was Jamie Foxx that was on it and he's like you know this generation they know Michael Jordan has that crying mean face like hey do your crying face for us it's like the greatest basketball player ever you know yeah it's crazy that's crazy that's hilarious but that's exactly that's exactly where we are at yeah yeah no that's unfortunately true all right yeah so anyway monster cards I love seeing all these polls it's kind of you know it keeps the excitement within the hobby and you know I'm sure they'll be oh I can't wait for the day that the Paul Skeens and will be Davey Batch gets pulled that's gonna be big news even across even beyond sports cards I believe all right all right let's go on to our next segment we call it blind rankings all right we've been having so much fun doing these blind rankings so I thought I was get going here well the last time I believe you and John did it we did it with $10,000 cards right all these cars sold for $10,000 recently I'm upping it to $25,000 okay so all these cards recently sold for $25,000 in the in this month in December alone okay so first one I'm gonna give you is 2023-24 Tops Mercury we talked about Tops Mercury a lot with Victor Wembanyama it's his rookie of the year dual autograph card with himself and CJ Stroud red refractor number two five huh raw I believe it's raw Wow 25 or encased encased yeah 25 yeah that's nuts give it a thousand I'm gonna put it at number four because I don't I don't know about cross sports autos dual autos like I don't know if that's my thing necessarily and I could see that going south too if one doesn't pan out not saying that one won't because they're on the trajectory obviously but it's a dangerous game for that like I rather I rather single auto than a dual auto I'm gonna put it four because it is still a massive card that people will still drool over so I'm gonna put out a number four and you have to love basketball and football at the same time so it's like sure I don't know if I'm that guy yeah no and I mean to your point it limits the the number of people that will want this card the demographic yeah so there you go okay I like that second 2020 Tops Chrome Formula One Sapphire Edition red number two five of Max Verstappen PSA 8 what year 2020 20 so his rookie year massive card massive massive card another red I personally rather have a true color than the sapphire mm-hmm I'm gonna put it five man like oh okay yeah f1 ended up not doing as planned I think it's a different collectible space that didn't pan out the way I thought it would so I like for me if I'm spending 25k I'm probably gonna go towards baseball hoping that you're gonna throw some baseball out here and maybe basketball I like the strategy okay all right card number three so you got four or five you got now you got the top three spots open the 1984 85 star Michael Jordan rookie card PSA 5 PSA 5 25 grand a yeah I would have to put this at a number three oh okay yeah yeah I'm gonna put this at a number three because I think one the star card is great there but if we've been on a serious uptrend with that card because of the hype there's higher grades available which also kind of doesn't float my boat at 25k I rather have a higher grade and more potential of that higher grade than something that is a mid grade that doesn't have as much legs as a higher grade version of that so for me I'm gonna put it at number three I do like that card better than the other previous two though okay so you like your list so far all right I like my list so far hoping that I don't shoot myself in the foot here okay I think you're doing well to card number four 2020 National Treasures blue first off the line lamella ball rookie patch auto number two three BGS 9 okay the card is right I don't know if I'm a huge lamella fan but I know that it still has value so I got to put it number two just because I'm hoping that the next one is a massive massive card here with with bigger potential okay well here it is the 2018 Bowman Chrome, Rookie Autograph, Blue Refractor, BGS 9.5 of Shohei Ohtani. Perfect. You crushed it. You crushed this fly rankings. I think the list is good. I think I'm happy with that list. Dang, I was hoping that you just like put something in near the top and then I would get you with the Shohei Ohtani at the end, but you played me. I did that last time too, and it shot me in the foot because we had to force. You learned. Yeah, so no, that was good. That was overall, that was fun. Yeah, no, that's well done. Well done. I couldn't get you that time. All right, let's finish off our episode with a regular weekly segment we call Pick One. All right, you usually start things off for us. So you have a couple in mind. Yeah, I'm gonna go kind of go back to, I guess COVID hype. Now that prices have settled down on what was hot three, four years ago to what prices are now. And it's two guys that were the hottest things in the hobby, which is Fernando Tatis Jr. And Ronald Acuna Jr. Now that prices have settled, I would say they would be pretty close to the floor based on historical prices and their career trajectory. Obviously, people are gonna bring out Tatis is not worth anything because, let's put that aside because that conversation might not occur 10 years from now because Barry Bonds, who knows what's gonna happen there. And you see the trend with Barry Bonds, his prices are going up, at least his Tiffany is, right? So at the end of the day, I think people will see past that as long as they perform to their standards. So on one side, you have the PED suspension with Tatis. And then on the other side, Acuna just undergone his second ACL surgery after his MVP year in 2023. He had a unfortunate event in 2024. He's had now two ACL surgeries in the last three years, wedged in with the MVP season, which is insane. Like it's like ACL tear, MVP, ACL tear. Like that's insane. And for me, I always believed in Acuna's talent just because this is what a five tool talent actually pans out to be. This is why in baseball, we call it a five tool talent because if he hits his potential, you have a 40-70 season, which is ridiculous, right? So I'm gonna pair up Acuna's Bowman Chrome. In 2017, he had his Bowman Chrome auto, which I love because his auto can only be found in Bowman Chrome with a decent auto. Otherwise, it's a scribble after that. So in 2017, his purple auto number to 250, a BGS 9-5, which was a min gem, just to note, sold for on December 10th, 1526 on bids, right? So that's the card I'm picking. Would you rather spend $1,500 here, December 12th, sit in December 12th, or we go to the 2016 Bowman Chrome first of Tatis Jr., a blue refractor number two. So there's true blue, number two, 150, a PSA 9 auto 10, sold for 1480. So we're at 1,500 for both. Yeah. Off-season and something to note, Alex Anthopolis noted that Acuna will not be ready for opening day in 2025. Did he say when he will be? I would imagine it would be shortly thereafter. Yeah, he's on the same timeline because Spencer's strategy is the same way. Atlanta took some pretty bad falls. Yeah, so they're expected to return sometime, I would say in the early part of the MLB 2025 season. Okay. 1,500 bucks. What's the better investment? You know, I think this is more what's your timeline in terms of, you know, if you want to flip it more short-term or more long-term. And even then it's kind of hard because long-term, you know, I'm already leaning towards Acuna, but then there's always the injury concern, right? So, and then, you know, we talked about the whole steroids thing, you know, that Tatis was tangled up in. And I don't know how that's gonna play out. That's the thing that's bothering me, you know? I think it has impacted his prices. For sure. You know, and I think that's, I don't know how long that will last and whether or not that will ever not impact the card prices for that reason. So what am I more worried about? That or Acuna's injury? Right. So that's kind of my, how I'm trying to decide things. So that said, I am going to go with Acuna. Yeah. Interesting. Because I think Tatis, it's really anyone's guess how the, what the perspective will be in the future. Right. Acuna, if he has a healthy year, we've seen what he could do already. That's a big if, like if he has a complete year. But if he is healthy, even if he has one more healthy year, you know, God forbid he can, you know, he only has one more season left. But I'm hoping that, you know, with the technology available, with his, you know, physiotherapists and that he'll just be more attuned to his body. He'll be the next, you know, he'll be like Bryce Harper. He'd get, you know, okay, maybe I shouldn't go all out on this play. Kind of be more wise about what he does on the field. I think there's more potential for Acuna's cards to go up, especially if he stays healthy. So I'm going with Acuna in this case. Interesting. So something to note about Acuna, think about this. He signed an eight year, a hundred million dollar deal before. Wow, what a steal. What a steal. So do you believe in early long-term contracts? There you go. Like that is the absolute, and with the Juan Soto deal, it just kind of opens eyes to like, man, what did Acuna miss out on? Or if he stays healthy, how does his, because he would be available, I think, after 2028 season. What does that look like? You know what I mean? Short-term, massive contract based on Soto's contract. So there's that potential, but I just remembered that Acuna had the eight year, $100 million deal. And based on, even with his two injuries, that is totally worth the $100 million that he's performed. He has a world series ring that he didn't even participate in and he has an MVP season. So it's crazy what Acuna has done. I'm hoping that he's going to be healthy. I'm a huge Acuna fan, but I also blew out my knee and it totally changed my career in baseball. So I know what it's like to come back. Obviously he's a lot more athletic than I was. But with that said, the Tatis, what interests me is, one, true blue, it has the guts to do well. And I'm curious to see, I think Tatis is going to go off this year with the Padres team. If he stays healthy, obviously, is the main concern. I think he's going to go back to his regular 280, 290, 35 to 40 home runs, 100 plus RBIs this season, 100 plus runs scored. It's going to be kind of like a big season for him. And I think, and with that said, I don't know if this is accurate, a gold Tatis just sold for 6,800 on bids. So to me, it was a surprising sale because his prices were so low, but obviously true gold is a massive card, but 6,800 is a strong sale. I don't know whether that's true or not. It was on bids, multiple bids. Some say it's shilled, who knows? But that's a good sign regardless. True blue, if he goes off, I think there's a good potential to now potentially sell. Whereas the Acuna, a purple refractor, not as desired. That kind of makes it less desirable. Plus a min gem. I don't know, back in the days when we were collecting, min gems were a big thing in terms of, oh, that's a PSA 9. Like we would be like, oh, I would crack a PSA 9, try a BGS 9.5. I could get a min gem. And sometimes it would be a true gem, a PSA 9. So for me, it's like apples to apples if you're talking about a BGS min gem to a PSA 9, because the potential to crossover would be there. Who knows these days though? You could get a PSA 7, you could get a BGS 9, who knows? But that's how I always perceived it. So I'm gonna go Tatis on this. I like the true blue. I think Tatis is gonna have massive season. I don't know how Acuna is gonna react to his second ACL surgery, as well as he's not gonna be available in spring training. That's when the hype usually kind of gets going. So if Tatis could start hot, his prices may jump. It might be a good time to sell then. Yeah, no, I could see that reasoning for sure. But a lot of factors either way. A lot of factors. That's what makes it a good one. All right. Okay, let's end off with mine. You know, we did the blind rankings, the $25,000 version. So I wanna bring it back down, more accessible to the regular collector like us, right? So this is the $900 range, okay? Basketball, we'll change it up. We'll change sports up a bit. The Stephen Curry 2009, 2010 Bowman rookie card, the blue parallel, number to 1948. The PSA 7 sold for about 900 bucks, 911 to be exact. I'm gonna pair that with, and the pop count for, I guess it doesn't matter for PSA 7, but it is a numbered card to 1948. I'm gonna pair that with the Luka Doncic Silver Prism PSA 10 that's come all the way down to 930, okay? I bought it for just over 2000, just to remind people. And I sold it for 1200. So, okay, I'm like, all right, I'm glad I sold it when I did, because it's down to 930 bucks, pop count over 2000. We always said that the floor with that card would be a thousand bucks. That's what we said. Remember, if a Luka Silver popped 2000, as long as Luka does whatever he does, I think that thousand dollars is that floor. Going down to 900 is pretty cheap, but it kills me that the pop count is that high, because the print run is obviously that much, right? So, the right answer is definitely Steph Curry. What concerns me, concerns about the Steph Curry card is that, one, it is a PSA 7, it is paper. I've had that card. It's not, I would say, his most desirable card, even though it's numbered, right? But it is liquid, which is a plus, but it is a PSA 7. So, those are the factors that I'm kinda, whereas the Luka Doncic is a PSA 10, super liquid if prices are right, you could kinda let that go, whereas that PSA 7, I don't know how volatile that would be. With that said, I'm still going with the Steph Curry, because that Luka Silver Prism is too high. Like, a PSA 10 should not be in the 2000 range. It kinda takes out the allure of the Silver Prism, which I hope that that would be the true refractor back in the Topps Chrome days where everybody wanted, but that Silver Prism now is just like, ah, it's too many, right? Whereas if it's a 2012, 2013 Silver Prism, great. Now you're super low pop count, super desirable. I don't think it's the same card in the 2018 set, so I gotta go with the Bowman Steph Curry Blue. Yep, it's gonna be a Steph Curry Bowman Sweep. You know, I was looking at the PSA 8 of that card, and what I like to do is see what the gap is, because if it's a significant gap, there'll be people that don't wanna pay that much just for a bump up to a PSA 8. So a PSA 7 is $9.11, PSA 8 goes about $1,500. Wow, what a jumper. Yeah, I think that's significant. So I think there will be people that want a Steph Curry card, and this is a numbered card, it's accessible. So I think in that sense that there'll always be a buyer for some rookie Steph Curry card for under 1,000 bucks. Do you think the PSA 7, or do you know if the PSA 7 is the median grade, where it's the most in terms of population? It is the most, 138. PSA 8 is 111, it's the second. Oh, so it's the same, so you're relatively same. I think, yeah, you could see that PSA 7 as a little underpriced or overpriced on the PSA 8, depending on the market. So I think there's room to definitely grow. So that's definitely a good point. Yeah, no, and so that's why, and like with these kinds of cards, PSA 9 and PSA 10, it just grows exponentially, right? PSA 9 is 3,600, PSA 10 is 15,000 for a pop of 17. And I'm biased, I used to own the Luka Dungeons card, so it gives me bad memories. You're not rebuying that, right? It's one of those things where we did talk about that 1,000 being a threshold, but once you cross it, you're like, maybe 500 will be a good number, you know? Yeah, can it go down to 500? I'll buy it at 500. And then when it does, we're like, maybe four 300 will be a good, I'll buy it for 300, that's nothing. I think I would be a buyer at 500. Okay, well, you know what, keep your word to that. When it hits, if it ever hits 500, I'm like, did you buy it yet? So we'll see. All right, thanks for tuning in to another episode of Cards to the Moon. We appreciate you guys. And yeah, we'll have a brand new episode you guys next week. Talk to you then. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening to Cards to the Moon. We'd really appreciate you subscribing to our podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts, and you can also connect with each of us on Instagram at 5cardguys, or you can follow Hyung at Integrity Sports Cards, or John at TradeUatRecess. You can also check us out at 5cardguys.com. Thanks again, and hope to connect soon.