Season 5 Episode 36 - Gordy Bonker Joins The Ballcard Show

Hello, and welcome to the Ball Card Show, the sports podcast for The Sports Collector. I'm Jason Otero. This is season five, episode 36, and my other half, Gary, well, he decided to take a thing called a vacation. I guess he wanted to get a little bit of rest, not work all week, not set up at a show, and guess what? He's still setting up out of town. I'll get to that in just a moment. Today is a very exciting episode. The reason for that is we have a guest that I am thrilled to introduce to you if you've not met him before, if you haven't heard about him lately, but today's episode is an episode completely dedicated to the vintage space, the vintage market, vintage collectors, and vintage dealers. Today, we will be interviewing Gordy Bonker. Now, in case you didn't know who he is, but the name sounds familiar, here's a few reasons why. He has a podcast with the Sports Cards Nonsense Media Network, The Gordy Bonker Show, Bonker's Cards Live is a show he does live on TikTok. That's how I stumbled onto him where for hours on a live stream, you'll see incredible, beautiful vintage, some of it attainable, affordable, some of it's just stuff you're not going to see for a long time on the higher end and high grades. That's Bonker's Cards Live. He has a newsletter, a collector's call that they do on a regular basis. So much going on all in the vintage space, guy younger than me, and I want to know how did he do it? By the way, this is the same Gordy Bonker that was able to broker a deal for a 52 manel and a PSA 8 a few weeks back for over $1 million. Now, those of you that are dealers, those of you that set up, sell, flip collections, those of you more involved on the business side of this, let's not even pretend for a second we would not be completely ecstatic, thrilled, bucket list moment to be a part of a transaction like that where somebody is really believing in the long-term viability of an asset like that and also for the seller to be able to cash out on a card like that. Just a really cool story. We're going to jump into that here in just a moment, but we're thrilled to have Gordy Bonker with us in the interview here in just a couple moments. Before we jump into that, just a couple of announcements I wanted to make you aware of. Quick reminder, we really appreciate it if you subscribe, follow us. You haven't done that, but you've been watching for a little bit. Just click the button. It means a lot. It helps us. It helps our business as well, which is meaningful to us too. Thank you for doing that. If you feel like there's some value in what we're doing, we really appreciate that. Thursday nights, 6 p.m. Eastern, every single week, we are live on WhatNot running auctions on singles for several hours. Please come hang out with us there. You do not have to buy anything if you enjoy the pod. We try to make WhatNot feel like a continuation of that experience. You'll see some interesting cards that you don't see every day. We try to find stuff that's still reasonably affordable, but cards that are a little bit more collectible than just your average retail stuff that you see all the time. Be sure to check us out on a Thursday night at 6 p.m. Eastern on WhatNot. Then I wanted to give you a little bit of a schedule of some of the upcoming shows that we have. As this episode drops, it is the 24th, the 25th, that Saturday. I will be set up in Newark, Ohio at the Moose Lodge, another Don Jones show. Don does a great job promoting those. I'll be out at that show for the day, trying to do a little bit of buying, but I'll have some showcases out as well. That same day, on the other end of the country, if you go way south, the Space Coast show, Gary will be set up. He is going to be heading out on vacation off of the mainland the next day, but he wanted to get a card show in, and we know some of you that are fans of the podcast, part of our community, are in Florida, have asked about this, so make sure you head to the Space Coast show. Gary will be there as well. Then the following week on the 1st, the Xenia show is moved up in the month of November, I believe, because of the holidays. November 1st, we will be in Xenia for the day, and then the following week, on Sunday the 9th, we will be at the Grove City Card Fest, put on by B-Sports. Brad Beavitt does a great job promoting that show, and Card Collector, too, so that's just the next few weeks. If you want to catch us at a show, say, hey, we'd love to see you there. If you have some stuff you want to sell to us, or things you want to buy from us, that is where you will find us, so be sure to take advantage of all of those things. One thing I'm really excited about, and the more I thought about it, I just realized, I should have started this sooner. I should have introduced you to my Uncle Terry sooner, because now that you've seen how Uncle Terry is, just the way he is, and everybody's got an uncle, but he's your hobby uncle. He's my hobby uncle. He found out we're talking vintage. He heard about the Mickey Mantle story, and he's very excited to share with you. Ladies and gentlemen, once again, Uncle Terry from Uncle Terry's Vaults. Thank you to my nephews, Gary and Jason. This is Uncle Terry's Vault, and today, we are taking time out to congratulate a fellow old collector on his recent sale of his 1952 Mickey Mantle card for over one million bucks, bud. He's done it, and today, bud, let this be the day. Declared by all card collectors as the day we all say old cards are better than the new cards, bud. Look at these. Oh, I got a few Mantles here, but I got a other couple of beauties here, but they do not compare to the damn junk of today. Look at these things. Look at these things here, bud. What are these things? Huh? You know what these are? These are damn kitty toys. These are damn goofball Happy Meal kitty toys. These though, bud, these are works of art, and let this be the day on Uncle Terry's Vault on the Ball Card Show, we all say old cards are better than this new card junk. Ha, ha, ha. Old cards are better than new cards. Everybody repeated after me. Now, honestly, if we took that to heart a little bit more, I have a hunch some of us wouldn't be so cooked on that rookie quarterback market over the last five years. So Uncle Terry's up to something. Hopefully he leaves me one of those in his will at some point. At some point down the road, that would be awful helpful. Before we go any further, just once again, we're honored to present you our guest for this interview today. We really appreciate him taking the time out of his busy schedule that is becoming even more busy. You're going to hear several ways to connect with Gordy. This isn't just about us interviewing somebody so you go buy cards from them. He's building out a whole community, and when you hear his story about diving into the vintage market, how that began to work as a business, and how these relationships have been impacting that business, I think you're really going to want to take some notes. Those of you that just listen on a regular basis, enjoy. Those of you that are dealers like Gary and I, that are always looking for some nuggets of info to drop in that'll make you more efficient with your business, today is one of those days to take notes. If you're driving, take mental notes, and go back and watch again later because Gordy brings so many things that we should really consider when looking into this vintage market. Without me rambling on any further, ladies and gentlemen, let's welcome in Gordy Bonker. All right guys, here we are. I'm super excited about this. I'm fanning a little bit. That's just the truth here, Gordy. You are becoming a popular face in this community, and it's my distinct pleasure to welcome to the Ball Card Show, Gordy Bonker. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much, Jason. I'm looking forward to being on the show. Thanks for having me. We're thrilled to have you. I know that we had a little bit of communication back and forth because when I saw the Got Mantle t-shirt that you had available, Gary and I love to wear fun shirts like that at shows. I was like, well, this has to happen. I've yet to have somebody bring me mantle when I wear that though, and it's been walking up on other days. So I don't know if I'm just in the wrong show, if they're hiding it from me. It's a great shirt to wear at a card show. I'm going to the Chantilly Show on Friday. Oh, nice. Yeah. I think I should rock it on Friday. You got to. Yeah. It's a good conversation starter. I appreciate that. I appreciate the shout out on that. Yeah. Well, it's well earned. I found you scrolling through TikTok and I saw a live vintage show, which you see some card shows live, but not a ton, but the quality of the vintage you had and your understanding of that market was most impressive to me because you are not the average age of the person I see selling a lot of vintage and actually having a depth of knowledge with the market and doing it on TikTok. I found that to be very unique. The volume of cards moving, the dedicated collectors that were in the space, it was clear people are finding PCs on a regular basis in there. So I wanted to talk to you about this. Obviously we're going to talk here in just a moment that you were a part of brokering and helping to sell a mantle worth over a million dollars. And I think that's incredible, but I want to baby step our way into this conversation as we talk about vintage. It seems to be something in the spaces that we're in with a lot of card dealers that people are either a vintage dealer or they stay away from it. And there's not much of an in-between in a lot of spaces. And there's a growing intrigue in the space of this alternative asset class, long-term holds, high-grade vintage. We're hearing it more and more and more this year. But before we jump into the business end of this, I just got to know what brought you into the card space. And then more specifically at your age, what led you down a pathway where it's like, I'm a vintage guy. This is what I do. Yeah. You know, you touch on a lot of things. I am very hard to put in a box. You know, I've got a funny name. I'm younger. I'm into vintage baseball. I'm on TikTok. But wait, like TikTok is not where you would think a vintage baseball collector gravitates towards. But in fact, there's a ton of them that are there. So there's a whole big jumbled mess. And I appreciate you giving some context to it because it's interesting. It's very unique. I've always blazed my own path, and I think that's what's helped kind of build my brand in the hobby because I'm different in a lot of ways. So yeah, I started in the hobby, you know, like anybody. I was a collector as a kid. I loved baseball cards. And you know, I remember very distinctly, I was probably around fourth or fifth grade, a co-worker of my mom's, he was a store manager at Target. My mom was like a district store manager. And he dropped off to her one day at work, like boxes of mostly 80s and 90s Yankees baseball cards. And it was thousands of cards. And I remember in that moment when my mom came home and gave me all these cards, it was the most crazy thing. And I got really into, you know, vintage baseball cards, you know, this is like 2006, 2007. And you know, just like any other kid, though, I had that phase of my life. And as I got older, I went to college, I graduated from Penn State 2018, and went into the corporate world. And I really wasn't into cards from probably the age of like 13 to 25 ish. And it was in 2021, it was after like the real big COVID boom, honestly, about 21, 22, I had reconnected with an old friend of mine from childhood that was into sports cards. And I reached out to him, because I was just really fascinated in the marketplace that had been built around sports cards, I had read a story about people spending, you know, a ton of money on sports cards. And I was writing, I've always been a writer, I've always been a content creator. And my prior career, I was a financial services recruitment consultant in the private equity hedge funded banking space. So I was writing and producing a lot of video content on the stock market, the job market, the economy. And that was kind of a way for me to build credibility with my candidates and my clients that you know, I knew who was who in the market, and I could help people, you know, land special jobs. But I had came across in my financial writing sports cards as an alternative asset class. And I texted my buddy who I was friends with as a kid, like, Hey, can you bring me to a card show? Like, I'm really curious about this. And he brought me to, there's a show in Secaucus, New Jersey, probably like 100-200 tables. And I couldn't believe how much money people were spending on sports cards like in front of me. I was like, holy dick, this guy just spent a couple grand on a piece of cardboard. And I actually have it here with me, he brought me to a vintage dealer's table, and there was a 54 Tops Willie Mays card, guy wanted 300 bucks for it, it was raw. And he was like, you should buy that, you know, and I was like, that's way too much money for me to spend on a baseball card, like I'm not doing that. And he goes, if Gordy, if you don't buy it, I'll buy it. And there was something about like his conviction on it. And I was just getting really excited about the idea of participating in baseball card collecting again, I just bought it and walked the rest of the show floor went home, I wrote a piece on my original newsletter, the bonkerbeat.com, just about sports cards and kind of what this could be eventually become. And I just got interested more and more in it. And flash forward a few months, I started bonkers cards, which was a tick tock channel documenting myself learning about the vintage sports cards. That's really the origination of it. And, you know, I could talk more about what made my brand stick more in the popularity of the brand and eventually leaving my job and all that stuff. But that's how I got into it. I've always been an old soul. I love baseball history. You know, when I was in middle school, I was quoting, you know, Babe Ruth stats to kids. I didn't care as much about the stuff that was happening at the current time. And I've just always loved history in baseball. And yeah, it's a good mix. Yeah. And 54 is your PC set right now. Are you upgrading and all high grade, right? Yes. It's not a bad set. It's not a bad set. If you're going to pick one, you know, some people do prefer that 87 tops, you know, but you know, a close second for many, so the maze is not a bad way to start. And there is some captivation with a raw vintage card like that. Like, you know what? I don't see a lot of raw 54 maze out in the wild. So that's kind of cool for your first show that, you know, you stumble onto that one. I got it. You know, it's a crazy story. Crazy story about this maze is that I got it graded and it came back in SGC three. We'll talk about, I'm sure my buying and selling and how I ended up leaving my job to do this. But in that stretch of time, that first year, I got the card graded, it was a three, and I sold it. And I sold it to, I don't remember who I had sold it to. And then a year or two later, I bought a collection and this card was in it. And as I looked closer at it, I recognized the card because it was that very first card that came back to me. And at that point, you know, regardless of how nice the rest of my set is, I've got a lot of sevens and eights, my maze will always be with me. That's awesome. Oh my God, so. I love that. Weird, weird moment in time. And I'll never forget getting that card back. That's a full circle moment on something like that. You really don't see that one pop back up the exact same guard, that's kind of bizarre. So let's dive a little more into the business end on it. As I share with you and you've seen like our perspective is mostly from the dealer side of the table. That's what Gary and I are doing. We love the hobby. We do have our own PC base, but at the end of the day, we're paying bills with cards. Right? And so you're collecting, you're dedicating a ton of time to really dive in and learn the space. You have a financial background. So I'm sure that there are data points you're tracking that the average collector maybe wouldn't pay attention to or not realize a story that that's telling, right? What were, when you said, hey, you know, this is becoming something that I believe is viable as a business. And I might even leave my job for this. Like what were a couple of the most crucial and important steps that you took? Maybe it was something you did or something you decided to not do, but can you think of something that you did in the early phases of that business that were like, probably in hindsight, some of the most crucial decisions you made? Yeah, easily the first and most crucial decision that helped me in doing this was recording it. You know, when I first started going on TikTok live, I can't remember the time period exactly, but I wasn't going on TikTok live to sell. I was actually going on live to just talk with my audience and show them the cards I was picking up. And then there was a time where somebody tried to buy a card that I had in my PC through TikTok live. He said, I'll give you 300 bucks for that card. And I was like, whoa, wait a second. Like that just happened. I just made $100 on this card. Like I bought it today, whatever it was. And what I did for a while, the first few months, I was going on TikTok live, buying and selling cards. And you know, at some point I realized I need to document how much money I'm making buying and selling these cards. And it was never a thought in my head to make it a business. But as I started to document it, I realized like I'm making substantial enough money that I'm like, whoa, okay, there's something here. Keep making the videos or whatever. And then after I had started recording it, I think it was only after like, it was after about like six months, it was enough money that I was making where I was like, I could maybe do this like full time. And then I showed it to my wife probably like eight, nine months in. And I was like, I might be on track to make more money doing this than what I'm doing in New York, like full time. And because we live in Northern New Jersey, I was commuting into the city two days a week. I was initially fully remote and I was kind of not loving going into the city. So I was thinking about it and I was like, I might be able to do this full time. And then I kind of made a decision to myself like, if you make more money at this than your full-time job and you're only doing this on nights and on weekends, then maybe you should do it. So that was one of the first things that I think was a big breakthrough for me was documenting, recording it, setting a goal to myself. Like if I made more money at this than my full-time job, that's when I would consider leaving. I think that's really good advice for anybody who's considering doing this is like, do not quit your job, do not quit your job and then start to do this. Like this is something that you do for a period of time, you get a customer base, you get a feeling for how the business operates. And then when you have significant capital that you save and you have a track record, then you can consider leaving your job. But it is not something you quit your job and then figure it out. Because you'll be stressed, you'll be uptight about buying cards and having capital in inventory. So those are all things I would definitely recommend to somebody who might be listening to me and be like, I can do this. I think you can definitely do it, but you need to do it in a smart and methodical way. Right, because everybody that hears you say, I'm gonna do this, maybe besides the spouse initially, right? It's all like round of, oh yeah, this is great. How cool is this? But three, six, 10 months in when inventory is a challenge or there's a softening of the market or some dynamic changes on what people were expecting or who knows, maybe there's a company that specializes in a vintage space that now wants to offer a percentage that you're competing with that makes it a challenge. Like so much can change in that space. And the beautiful thing about this hobby becoming a business, it seems like it's one over time you can prove, is this working or is it not? But if you're never tracking it, we're all just hoping and everybody wants everybody to succeed, but not everybody's going to, right? Yeah, for sure. So those are a few things that I think were early on that were important decisions I made. Being doubling down on social media and short form video content was another big thing that I very consciously decided to do. Invest as much time as I could in creating content and building audience and then worrying about product or whatever later. And yeah, building relationships has always been something that comes very naturally to me. I'm a huge networker, it's just what I do. I love people. And sports cards is really, in my world, all about networking. And I think that's been really valuable as well in learning that skill early. Right, yeah, yeah. So when you're learning vintage, like where did you find it most effective to like, was there one resource? Were you watching video content? Were you just searching eBay sales? Like if you had like to say, hey, I probably learned more about the vintage market from this one area, or did you just say, hey, you just have to go dive in and figure it out? Yeah, that's a great question, man. It's fun kind of reliving that time. Because if you look at the timeframe, it's not been that long ago that you go, we're like, I'm seriously into this, right? Yeah. And there are people who have been selling cards for 30 years that just never decided to weight in that heavily. Because they're overwhelmed or concerned that they won't make the right decision or whatever. I guess I have that personality trait of when I see something, I go all in on it. So I think that helped. Resources that helped me learn quickly were having a good mentor. I've got two or three really close mentors that I'm not afraid to... I asked a lot of stupid questions, but I asked a lot of questions. And I had a good relationship with a mentor that just wanted to see me succeed. So mentorship was key. You know where I learned a ton, honestly, was the vintage Facebook groups, like collect on Facebook. It's a lot different now. I actually very rarely use it now. But when I was into it in 21, 22, there wasn't as many people in it. It wasn't as saturated into what the Facebook group community has kind of become now. I'm not a huge of a fan of it anymore, to be honest. But those early days of me learning, like I would read every Facebook post someone wrote in there. And then I would read every comment on every Facebook post. Like I'm a big reader. I was watching a lot of video content. I was going to card shows. I was talking to my mentor. I just, I listened to a lot of podcasts. I remember Jeremy Lee's Sports Cards Live podcast I would listen to on Saturdays. Because at that time also, there was really a shortage of content in the hobby at large. Like I don't know how long you've been doing your show. I'm in a very similar track with you. Now we've been recording it, but we were so hesitant to drop video. And I don't know why, but we're in our fifth season now, but this is the first season with video and interviews and putting ourself out there. But the trajectory of us both leaning into the full-time card stuff's very similar on timeline. I totally agree with on Facebook. Like I remember, and it was a great place to cut your teeth. You could try to sell things. And it wasn't, you know, some of these, some spaces are pretty toxic now on there where it's just, it's not even about the card anymore. Yeah. It's not the same space it once was, but yeah, very similar timeline on that. Which honestly makes it hard for if someone's newer today, like what's a good resource. And that's honestly like, I've been writing on my sub-sac, my newsletter, Bonkers Cards newsletter. And I try to write everything that I can about the vintage card market, lessons that I've learned building my company, you know, observations that I'm noticing either in the market or at card shows, talking with people, so. And you're even, excuse me, you're even offering a space for that conversation. You do a regular, is it a monthly, a weekly call? What do you, monthly call? A monthly Zoom call. It's called the Bonkers Cards Club. It's actually, I don't know when this comes out. Our next meeting's tomorrow, October 15th. It's on Zoom, eight o'clock PM at night. And it's just a platform for guys to log on, learn from one another about collecting. A lot of people ask me questions like, how do you do this? Or what do you think about grading? Whatever questions come to mind. And it's a platform for me to answer those questions. And I have guests that come on and, you know, sometimes those guests are from auction houses or companies and something that, you know, if I see value in this person joining the show and talking to the group, like I'll bring them in. So- Is there any buying and selling happening in the show or is it just conversation content? Yeah, mostly conversation content. I don't sell on the Bonkers Cards Club calls. I think something, somebody brought up on a good idea that I want to incorporate in the next one is, like guys dropping their wishlist card. Like if somebody's looking for a specific card, like let the group know so that they can look out for you and maybe, you know, send it to you if they find it. But yeah, that's, in terms of resources now, in terms of learning, I think if I were new to the hobby now, I would have a card specific account on TikTok, on Instagram and follow really insightful creators, people that are making high production, you know, high, good quality, informative content and just watch video. Like short form video when used appropriately is an amazing learning tool. And then, you know, additionally listening to some of the big name podcasts, you know, that's how I would learn now for sure. Yeah, and you guys with your network, you've got a nice little lineup there of people, especially on the dealer side. I know you're talking with the vintage stuff. We've known Mike for a little bit and then even like Clever Cube. And I remember stumbling onto a spreadsheet he had created a couple, a year or two ago. And when I pulled it up, somebody had finally organized all these things I didn't know how to even think about. My numbers, I finally had a way to organize my numbers and all that too. So I totally agree with you that there's more content available now that's truly adding value. I think people need to be wise in deciding where they're gonna receive that content from. Is it a value add or is it always an ask, right? Or is it always a reaction, right? So finding those channels I think is super important. Okay, so let's target this. And one of the things that we're known for is being off the cuff and really direct. So I'm gonna ask this of you, like you gotta like loosen the collar a tiny bit for me now. There are a lot of comments about buying, selling, trading, flipping that we hear on a regular basis that make us roll our eyes. Like when it comes to the vintage space, what are the things that you hear that just aren't based in reality? What are the things that people say about the vintage market that you're like, hey, my experience, and I have a little bit of it now to stand on is like, it's just as bull. It's not true. What do you think of some of those? Yeah, for sure. There's a couple. One of them right now that's super pressing we'll talk more on is the SGC versus PSA value gap. There are some people that feel that SGC should not warrant near the same valuation as PSA in certain cards. And I just don't agree with that. I think the card itself, especially if it's a high eye appeal, good looking card, I don't see the gap in the market as reasonable. I think it's a great buying opportunity, even still with the concerns of where SGC is currently headed in the ultra short term. I don't think they're going away as a brand or a grading company. I think collectors just still needs to figure out how to make that engine run. Another one that I think is really bull that this is probably a hot take, especially if your audience is mostly dealers because I've learned to just stop engaging with guys on this is that if you have a vintage card that's really well-centered that it should be worth like double what the comps are on a card in that grade. It has gotten so far out of place, out of reality in terms of like what people will price their card for. If it's like a nicely centered five, they'll have it priced like a seven. And sir, the card is a five. Well, let me tell you this, like if the card, if it didn't have this, it would be a seven. Well, listen, it's not a seven. It's a five. It's a good looking five. I'm happy to, if we're engaging in a negotiation, I'm happy to pay the higher end of a valuation of five because it's center. Sure, yeah. It is so egregious and unfortunately certain dealers get those prices to certain buyers that that's why that is still happening, obviously, because like it's worked for a few people, but I will never sell a card outside of a price bound range of a card in its grade. Like if I'm selling, you know, what let's say this is a 52 tops Wilhelm PSA8. If there is sales between six and 10,000 on this card, I will never sell it for 12,000. There has to be a sale. I would sell it at 10,000 if it's a high sale and it's a nice looking card. But just because it's nicely centered doesn't mean that it should go above the public comps. And, you know, that's something that bothers me a lot. I think the NBA sticker is like a part of that conversation too. Sometimes if people have. the NBA gold diamond or silver diamond. Yeah. They think that it should be worth more. It's just not true. So, uh, that's you're bringing up a great point. And I actually brought a couple of slabs cause I wanted to talk through a situation that dealers find themselves into. So I think you're absolutely right. I'm seeing the same thing because one thing I committed to doing this year is I noticed when, so I, I have one smaller showcase, but I'm trying to keep it full of vintage because I've learned as I set up, there are certain shows where that ultra modern is just not moving. But if you're the only guy in the room and you have 10, 20, 30, nice little slabs of vintage or even raw, sometimes that table gets pounced in. It is a great way for me to diversify. But I'm somebody at times too, where I think the thing that I run into as a dealer, that's newer to vintage, isn't so much like pricing it way over the number. It's when I see a three outperformed the last four, or when I see a range of a three of 90, 200, one 50, what a lot of the modern and ultra modern dealers are used to is a price band range with. Not even half of that variance. Right? So what is 80%? What is 70%? Are we really going to average the last three? Are we going to count the last? So I brought two slabs with me, same year, different company, different names, but let's pretend they were the same name. Okay. Yeah. So the first one I have is this. It's a PSA three 56 Hank white back. Okay. Good car. And then underneath that, I have this ed Matthew 56 in an SGC three. Okay. But. Obviously the presentation is very different on these two cards. Obviously we've got some clear there, so you can't see super well bright white. Do you see the centering? There is not, I might've gotten this one from you. I think there was a Duke Snyder too. I might've picked this up from you a few weeks back, but it presents super well. Right. Then you hold up the Hank three and you have like a lot of yellowing around there, but you could argue it's a little, it's more centered. It's, you know, the corners look a little more like Uno cards than they do sharp and crispy. So, yeah, it's a three though. So if this, if let's say these were both Hanks, right. How much of a variant should we expect? Like which one actually has the priority in value? Is it the centered one that doesn't visibly to me present as well? Or is it going to be the Hank that's bright, white, crispy corners, but less centered, this is where I think a lot of dealers are getting hung up and they don't, they're afraid, so they're low balling because they don't trust that they can reach the top of that value if they're honest, or they're looking for that centered one to try to get double comp or whatever. I would tell you that dealer is probably overthinking it. If that is the same card twice, I would sell it. And they were both PSA threes. Judging on the comps of this card, VCP has it at 292. Last few are 312, 325, 300 and 270. Both of those cards, if they were both Hanks and both have the same characteristics, I would sell them both for 300 bucks and I'd probably take an offer if I got it at 275. So you just allow the collector to make that decision and you don't steer clear. I mean, unless it is, I mean, obviously low grade, you're not going to have the same thing as you will with a seven or eight, right? But that visual, like if they're both low grade, you're not considering much of a difference in value. The amount of time that this hypothetical dealer has spent on this, is it worth their value? Like your time is worth more than like trying to debate, like, well, since this is offset and the color is not as good as the other, like most people are not thinking about that. And maybe there are some like super hardcore collectors that are, but there's a lot of people that just want a nice 56 Hank Aaron, and they want it to be around a two or three and they want, you know, that that's it. And they want to pay market value for the card. So like, don't try to reinvent the wheel here. Like, and also like, don't try to convince yourself of a narrative that isn't true as to why you should, if you're a dealer and that card gets presented to you, like you shouldn't pay 300 bucks and then think you're going to sell it for three 75, because there was one sale a year ago at three 75, or you think it's really nicely centered. Like, no, that's a $300 card. So if you want to make money on that card, you need to buy it for 250 bucks and you need to sell between two 50 and three, but to ask a collector to pay more for the card, because you weren't able to purchase it at a better price. Is, is really your fault, not the collector. So, um, that's how I would think about pricing that card. So it sounds like, cause this is something that I deal with too. When I'm trying to figure this out, when I'm trying to buy it, right. And part of it's going to be learning how to source vintage, better, better places to find it, where to find more than one or two at a time, right? I have a hunch. That's really, really the main obstacle here, but when it walks up to the table, it's better for you to just say, just assume that you're in that range. And people that are really frustrated with this probably just aren't buying it, right. And if you can't buy it, right. It just doesn't meet the criteria for inventory. The best sellers are usually the best buyers. That's really what it comes down to. You know, there's an expression that originated on wall street back when bond trading was really big talking about bonds, a well bought bond is half sold. It's the same thing when it comes to baseball cards, a well-bought card is half sold. I know if I bought this card correctly, it's going to sell itself because of the price I'm putting it out. That 56 Matthews looks like you've got a price, right? That will sell for 50 to 60 bucks for sure. Whatever you bought that card for. As soon as you locked in that transaction, that card is sold in my head. That's done. The hard part in vintage is buying to your point. Sourcing the inventory is extremely difficult. Um, it isn't being produced every year, like modern product is. So like the volume of cards is fixed in terms of the amount of supply. It's how can you. Access more of that inventory. And typically that's done by widening your audience, by networking, by meeting more people, by making more confident, whatever it is. So, uh, it is, uh, noticeable for sure though, when you come across somebody, um, who has stuff overpriced, it's because they bought it for too much money. Okay. That's you're, you're dropping gold. I don't know that you realize how helpful this is to a lot of people that have not taken a full dive into the space. Um, I think a big challenge for a lot of people with buying is everybody seeing more and more of the expectation, especially at card shows, the expectation has become 85 to 90, 95%. So, and that's a dynamic that's shifted drastically in the last couple of years with the resurgence of repacks, these other buying opportunities. So I think you drilled down on that. It's about buying it, right? Yeah. I, you know, it's interesting if the audience is a lot of dealers and they're dealing with a lot of modern product, like that is a unique challenge that you face that I really don't, thankfully, there isn't a huge presence yet anyway, in vintage repack products. Um, and you know, I've had that come, I don't go to as many shows as I did at the beginning of this year is last like three months. I don't think I've been to a show really since the national, but I did face that a few times if I was making an offer and I try to come in on an offer somewhere around 80, 85%. Uh, I would get that thrown at me every once in a while. Like, well, I got a repacker who will offer me that. And I'm like, okay, well, firstly, can you please call him and sell him that card right now then? Because I don't see him here, but anyway, I feel like that happens a lot more in the modern world. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's happening a little more. And part of it is the consumable content, right? All of the videos, the videos are always 95% and they're always the coolest grill cards, right? Not the bread and butter that most guys are dealing and selling on a regular basis. Let's take, let's take a little bit of a shift. Speaking of modern, we're noticing on our end of the table, a resurgence of set building of subsets with ultra modern stuff. I think it's a great thing because, um, when we talk about the sustainability of the hobby and chase products, the gambling aspect, which we don't have to get into all that. One thing that I do believe is if there's a component of collecting within new sets that are dropping, that is good for the market. That is good for the hobby. My question for you is, have you yet noticed any of that trickling into the vintage space? People got into ultra modern, they build out some subsets and then they start seeing the vintage market and say, I think I want to give this a go. I want to, I want to build a vintage set. Yeah. I mean, I've definitely seen it. Some of the guys in the bonkers cards club were originally brought into card collecting from modern product. And for one reason or another, um, they've gravitated towards vintage because, uh, they like the, the chase, the collecting chase that vintage offers. They like the price stability. Um, you know, the modern market is extremely volatile. It's also very confusing. Um, you know, as somebody who is a sports card content creator full time, I still couldn't tell you the majority of the modern product that's out there and like how cards are differentiated. But, uh, I can very easily outline and explain to you how to collect a 54 tops or 53 tops or whatever set. No G or there's only one card of one player. So, um, building sets is a lot more easy to understand. And, uh, it's really fun, man. I think vintage builders have always been a backbone of the hobby. I took the leap last year. Now I'll be honest. We have been so slammed the last three months. I have not done anything with it. But the first set, everybody said, I want somebody to tell me an easy set. That's got fun names just to get started. And so I'm like 65% through the 1969 set. Um, and I'm trying to do any of the stars in a six or better everything else raw, but it's gotta be a true ex or better. So I was wondering if I could throw you a few scenarios, like if we have a quadrant, okay, easy to collect, hard to collect inexpensive and inexpensive are the quadrants. So I'm going to, I just went off the cuff. The first thing that comes to mind. So I'm going to give those different categories. And you tell me what set you would recommend. Okay. So the first one is easy set to build relatively cheap to build it. Uh, I would say 1956 tops. Okay. There's a lot of, a lot of 56 tops cards out there. It's a really visually appealing set. A lot of hall of famers. The key here though, is there's no iconic rookie in the set. The biggest rookie card is Louie Aparicio. Um, you know, the mantle card is his, you know, call it fifth year, fourth year card, so you can get a low grade 56 mantle for like five, 600 bucks. Um, that set has a lot of good hall of fame names. It's got a Jackie Robinson, Hank Clemente, so 56 for sure. All right. I like it. All right. Cheap, but difficult to build. Um, I will go with, and you know, this is a theme of fifties baseball, um, the. Food sets and more specifically, the 54 red heart set, it's a pretty small set. Um, there's only 30 ish cards in it. Um, it's difficult to find the cards like presented nicely in lower grade. If you're doing it on a budget, you could do it very cheap. Uh, the only expensive card in there is going to be the mantle, uh, usual will probably be, you know, four or 500 bucks, but, um, it's hard to find it. It's one of those, uh, you know, more difficult chases. So 54 red heart for me. Okay. I like that one. Um, pricey, but accessible. Yeah, this one for sure. 1952 tops. Uh, the first ever set the tops made, um, by no means, you know, this isn't a cheap set build, uh, the 50 tops mantle courses, the hobby, Holy grail, got Jackie Robinson's 52 tops card, which is a big card. Eddie Matthews rookies, a very big one. Uh, the Hoyt Wilhelm I showed before, uh, this is a really tough short print rookie to find. But, um, you know, the good thing about 52 tops is that it's always going to hold its value and continue to go up over time. It's the most demanded set. It's the most iconic set. So for me, 52 tops. Okay. I love it. Last one. Yeah, I'm going to go back, uh, to 1954, not on the top side, but, uh, I'm going to go Wilson Franks, 54 Wilson Franks set, uh, Wilson Franks was, uh, a hot dog company. Uh, this was a food company set. There's only, I believe, 2022 cards total in the set. They're extremely rare. They're very hard to find, but they are super cool artistically. Um, I'm going to go back to 1954, not on the top side, but, uh, I'm going to go artistically. Um, maybe the most visually appealing card ever made in the fifties is the 54 Wilson Franks, Ted Williams card. Okay. Um, you know, it's just a really neat set. It's very challenging to find cards. I think I've only owned three or four of them in my life in the center. Really? Okay. The Campanella once the Hodges once, um, I had Hank Sowers, uh, Wilson Franks card and, um, maybe one or two others, but they're very hard to find and they're super cool. So 54 Wilson Franks has been on my back burner of sets that I maybe would like to build. Um, but it's a tough one. It's a long-term commitment for sure. I don't think I heard anything north of 1956. Did I? Uh, no, not on those by design, right? You know, as you move past 1959, uh, you know, top starts recognizing, you know, we can make more of this stuff. We can make variations. We can make all-star cards. We can start doing different things. Like the early 50 sets were very simple and they didn't have a lot of cards in the checklist, you know, by 1959, I think you've got 572. I want to say cards in that set. I might be off, but roughly something around there. And those are difficult. I mean, you're set 69. Like that's a large checklist. It's a lot of cards for me personally. Like I get lost in, in checklist sizes, like 54 tops, 250 cards. That's about as big of a set. I like to collect, but it's different for everybody, you know? Yeah. If you had to pick one set that you look back and I'm going to say we'll run clear to 76 and we're pushing it, right? This may be sacrilegious, right? But if you had to pick one design where you're like, I don't know what, and let's just go with, let's go with tops. Right. What were they thinking? What set is it for you? And then I'll give. mind, but which set is, if you were like, this is disgusting. Oh, you, um, I had an answer ready to go. It's not tops though. Okay. Well then let's, let's hear the unedited version first. Uh, 55 Bowman. Uh, really odd to me. I, I think it, they had the right thing going. I think it's an interesting set design in that, you know, it's got that TV is like the, um, design and, you know, the television was just starting to come out at the time, so it is kind of a time capsule, um, which is neat, but I think the cards just odd looking. If I were to say top set though, I'd have to think what's yours. I hate, I hate the 72 set. I absolutely hate it. I know unpopular opinion. It's just so seventies and I'll be honest. It probably started when I was running high volume, low in eBay and there's a waxy surface on every one of those 72s and they all stick together when you're trying to just move through a stack. But I don't know what it is about that design. I have never appreciated it. That my, my second is going to be one that's even less popular to say. I've never liked the 62 set. I never liked it. Yeah, I agree. 62. Let's do that. 55 Bowman. I don't mean to pick on you. Uh, some TV and historical call back to that set. I do think 62 tops is ugly, man. I don't, and you just like what the image, you have no clue what shade the image is going to be either. Like, is it greened out? Is it, you know, okay, cool. Yeah. Now I got you being negative with me. See Gordy, this is what we do. We create this type of content. I'm just kidding. Um, okay. So let's move. I want to, I want to, we're moving to the crescendo, which is you sell a card that goes for over a million dollars and you're, you're telling us this journey of like, I jumped into this. I was in another space. I've been doing this a while, but not that long. Talk about relationships. You didn't like acknowledge. There's some humility here on your part, but pretty incredible story in the card space of taking this leap and you're having a moment where you're actually moving a transaction of a card over like a grail card, explain how an experience like that happens. How do relationships develop like that? Where you have that kind of trust, um, built up. And then I just want to sit back and enjoy the story, uh, just directly from you. Yeah, I, I definitely, you know, in my piece I wrote about it, I, uh, reflected on, you know, I haven't been in the industry for that long relative to a lot of other people in this. Um, and, uh, you know, as I continue to grow and feel like the brand of bonkers cards in my reputation, I think people started to come back and see me consistently wherever I was, if I was at shows on my Tik TOK live on my newsletter. And I think that established some level of just credibility and trust, you know, they knew where I was going to be. And I continuedly, you know, I continue to show up and all the places I said I was going to be for the last three years. And, you know, I made big progress. I left my job in January of 24 officially, um, had a great year last year. And, uh, at the beginning of this year, I, I really stepped up, I bought and sold a 52 tops master set for 300,000 bucks, which was a huge deal for me at the time. Um, and I kind of recognized that I could do these higher level transactions. It was shortly after that I started brokering, uh, deals that were anywhere, you know, from 50, a hundred, 300,000. And, uh, as you continue to promote yourself out there, that is somebody that has a network of buyers and sellers and collectors that are in that space. More people start to think of you for this type of stuff. So, um, you know, flash forward to this mantle deal and really how that came to be like, um, I started the bonkers cards club in the beginning of this year, and I made it with an emphasis that I wanted to educate people on the market for these cards. I love talking about sports cards as an alternative asset. I think realistically that's going to be one of the driving factors as to why this industry is going to continue to explode over the next decade, because people want to buy, um, diversified, appreciating assets in their portfolio. There's a lot of capital in the city. There's a lot of cash moving around that still needs to find a home. Uh, alternative investing across other categories has exploded in the last few years. If you look at crypto, look at the run gold has been on, um, a lot of the high end sports card investors are alternatives investors. And I made the club and I started the Gordy Bonker show. And I want that podcast to really have a fabric to it. That's explaining to people why this is an investment and why this is an asset. And, um, you know, one of the people that resonated with that content early on, um, kept following me, kept watching the show. And it was funny. He joined the club. He bought, I, we were talking about this the other day. I think he bought a $200 Dan Marino rookie card off of my TikTok live show one night. Uh, just wanted to see how the experience went for the record. Yeah. We'll DM my direction on the Marino next time. A little date. What does that mean? Little, just a little message. Hey, Marino's in the show tonight. I'll be in there. Oh, you like, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a fence fan and this year saying it out loud. You really mean it. So yeah, sorry. The rookie was the police, uh, rookie autographed. Auto. Yep. So he buys that and we, you know, I had a transaction. I sent him the card. He kept following my stuff. And then a few months ago he reached out to me and was like, Hey Gordy. Um, you know, I live local to you. Like we should golf. He knows I'm a big golfer. I talked about it all the time. And, uh, we started just, uh, getting together, playing golf, talking about investing. He had a finance background and, um, you know, just, he just wanted to pick my brain. So how do you do this stuff? Like, cause I had been starting to broker some other sales. Like I had sold a Clemente eight rookie. I'd sold two Clemente eight rookies, um, which are six figure sales. I had done mantle. I had brokered the sale of Mickey mantles personally owned 52 mantle at the national, which was a pretty crazy story. Um, it was a really big car that was worth the 300,000. So he was fascinated about this, but he also saw the alternative investing angle. And, uh, you know, I kept that in the back of my head. He had told me he wanted to commit a certain amount of capital to invest into alts and he saw cards in that portion of his portfolio. And when I saw this 52 mantle eight get listed in a Facebook group, uh, from a seller that I had done business with prior, I was like, okay, I have access to this card right now. I have access to a buyer that wants to invest into this type of category. Let me call him. And so, you know, I gave him the specs of the mantle briefly. Uh, and I said, I think it's priced correctly, which it was. Uh, and then he asked me like, let's get on a zoom call tomorrow and talk more about it. So that night in the morning after I put together like a little slide deck, similarly to what you experienced in the financial world, like if you want to talk to a financial professional, you talk to them with the deck, I put together a few slides showing the price appreciation of 52 mantles over the last seven years. I showed him every public transaction that had happened. And, you know, I gave him my thoughts in terms of the demand for this stuff increasing, and it was kind of like at that point to him, it didn't take much convincing, it was like a no brainer, you know? So at that point I had the card essentially sold. I just needed to go reach out to the seller of the card and negotiate a price that, you know, compensated me for finding him seller. Um, so yeah, I closed the deal, um, very quickly. I closed it within 24 hours of the card coming up for sale publicly. Um, and you know, it taught me a lot. Um, it taught me how important trust is, you know? Um, and I think it also taught me like what you are doing. Sometimes you don't see the progress that you're making. And I've been doing it. I have been doing this for three, four years, like every single day from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed, like I pound at this. And, uh, I got put in this position because of how hard I worked and how much credibility I had built in the market. Um, you know, there are guys that have been doing this longer than me, but. There's very few that I think will put in the time and effort and the consistency and the discipline that I've put in to do it. And, uh, that's not coming from a place of, um, ego. It's just the fact, you know, like really hard to, uh, to do what I did. So I know there's something in there, um, as to why I was the one who got to do it. So I, um, yeah, it was an amazing experience. I think one of the things that people have, uh, resonated with, with me is that I'm very transparent in my journey, building this business. I started my sub stack almost as like a public diary to share what I was doing. And, uh, people feel like along for the ride for it. And the buyer of the 52 mantle included, you know, he, he didn't shy away from that part of the reason he wanted to buy it was that he was really supportive of me and he wanted me to succeed. And, uh, you know, it's been a really cool experience and, you know, I talked to him right before I got on with you today, we talked for a while, so it's, um, and that's a testament to really, right. Yeah. That it's not just the transaction, but beyond the transaction, these relationships are, are, are meaningful, meaningful enough that you're chatting afterwards, right? It's not just to the point of sale and a handshake. Um, and as you're sharing, go ahead. That's like, honestly, the thing I noticed most that people do not do in this industry that I picked up on very quickly, it was like, Oh, I'm just going to do this and get ahead of 90% of these guys is that it's so transactional in the hobby, especially in the card show circuit that you've mentioned that you're at a lot. It's like, dude, they do not care about you or why you want this card. They just want to make their 10 bucks on this card and get out of my face. So the next guy can give me a profit. And like, that is why that growth, like the relationship is really where you get the value in business. So, um, yeah, it's the biggest lesson I can impart on anybody for sure. I think there's an important note here is I'm like third party to this. You made yourself approachable and trustworthy because you made yourself vulnerable from the beginning with your content. Yeah. You're like, I'm actually going to show people what I'm learning as I learn it. I'm actually gonna like, and there is so in the, there was a, there was a void of good content. Now we have a lot of content in the space and there's good content coming in with that. But not all content is recreated equal. And if you come across in a way that's different from what people experience at a show or in a transaction, you might get one deal, but you don't get more. Even if you were just a completely selfish human being and only cared about the transaction, it's still a terrible decision to be like that financially. It's not even good for your business to focus on those, that type of humility you bring in. And then also that finance background. I mean, I'm assuming this was like a big moment in your life to sell that card with. I mean, if you would have been dreaming this up four years ago, I don't know if this was on your bucket list, but I would assume like, but you were made for that moment, right? Like your finance background. If I had to build that deck out, we, I wouldn't have been able to pitch. I could have had the card and all this, but the relationship would have prevented that from happening. I don't have that. Right. So I just love that. It's just naturally lined up with your background, your experience, the moment you were in the humility, as you shared your story, genuinely building trust over time and not just a one moment sizzle reel. Right. I think it's a great story, man. I really do. Yeah. You know, it's so funny because I've, uh, I I've reflected a lot on like this past year has been crazy and, uh, that the morning that I did that deal for the million plus mantle, I, even after it closed, like I knew it was done. Like I knew what I had made on the card. It was a lot, it was more money than I had expected to ever make on a card. And, uh, I remember when I closed the 52 master set deal in March of this year, that was like really the most emotional I'd ever been with, uh, anything related to cards or anything like I was so overwhelmed. It's a lot of what we do with sports cards is very much just assessing risk all the time, especially when you're buying like brokering is a little bit different, there's risk involved, but it's different risk calculation. But in March of this year, when that set deal happened, I was so overwhelmed with just like emotion because it was so much growth in such a short period of time, and it was a lot of money. And, uh, when I closed the deal on the mantle deal, like I was really excited, there was a certain level though, of like, I wasn't shocked that it had happened like when the master set deal happened, that was my first really big one. I was shocked. I was like, wow, this is nuts. And this, it was just like that, that whole morning, the presentation to him, him giving me the go ahead to make the offer, me negotiating the card, closing the deal, tightening that up. I hung up the phone. It was like ready, like good for the next one. Like, you know what I mean? Like it was, I'm really excited, but I had so much confidence in myself that like, it was a totally different feeling. And, uh, it's not to say that I'm not, um, you know, uh, I'm extremely grateful for it. I'm trying to find the word. It's not a place of, uh, cockiness or anything like that. I'm just like, this is really what I meant to do. Like, I really feel like I found a niche here that leverages a lot of my skills and my background. And I was just really excited about it, man. I think that's so important for people to hear. I know that there are people in the card space that are doing this, that have followed a similar path of, Hey, I proved to myself over six months or a year that this is viable. I took the leap I'm all in. And there's people listening to this podcast. I can guarantee it because we've talked to them on a regular basis. They're exhausted. They're tired. Like, and there's even some emotion in your face right now, for those of you that are not able to see this, but it is a grind and you believe so much that your work will pay off. And when it starts to happen and it starts to scale, there's this deep feeling of a bit of relief, but also this validation that like, yeah, I do sell cards for a living. Yeah, there are times where it's hard. We have bad months of sourcing in your inventory. You're looking at it like, man, it's a lot more still than I want it to be this month. But when that hard work pays off and you realize I can do this again, I get to do this. What a rewarding experience to be in a card space and to do it as a business. Well said. Nothing I would have dreamed up. Dude, I think that is the word that I felt on the first deal, the master set deal. It was relief. It was the ultimate level of validation. I remember being like, man, 2024 went really well, the first year that I had done it full time with all of my hours and energy. But I remember talking to somebody and being like, I don't know how I'm gonna beat 2024. That was the best year of my life. I went all in on my business. I did super well. I don't know how I'm gonna beat that. And then this master set deal happened and it was like, wow, this is the biggest relief. I just, I made it. That's the best feeling. That's incredible. So as we turn the corner here, as we're wrapping up, we always try to give some level of homework for people listening to this that may be dealers. I would guess that most of the people in our channels, they dabble in vintage. I know that there's an interest for them to be more engaged with that market. If dealers or collectors were wanting to spend a little more time in that vintage space, right? And you could give them homework. It could be one thing. It could be three things over the next few weeks. What do you think would be the most valuable steps they could take to have a little bit of homework to dive further into the vintage space? Yeah, that's interesting. I guess it's two different, it's definitely two different things. Like for a dealer, if they wanna start actively buying and selling, I think they need to change their approach on where they're looking for it and like what their buying process is. You know, like vintage cards are not being, I mean, actually they definitely are. There are people selling vintage cards on whatnot. I guess the access to vintage cards, it's a different dynamic than modern product. Like modern product is being made every year. It's getting put on the shelves in retail locations, being ripped open by breakers. And then it's entering this ecosystem that people are trading. So like that is not the framework for how vintage moves throughout the system. And so like, if you want to be a vintage dealer, you need to be where vintage cards are. And I guess that would be at card shows that have like more vintage roots in them. So like spending some time with some of the more well-known vintage dealers at the Philly show, or I think Dallas has great vintage selection, typically, Gen Philly. Like you'd probably have to travel for it. It's not something that's gonna like show up to your front door. You can look on eBay lots, you can look at Greg Morris, you can look at these consignment places and start to just watch what this stuff is selling for. Like just getting a basic sense for like, okay, like a 58 top set and VG condition goes for three to 5,000. Like what's the yield on that if I were to get those cards graded, break up the time? Like, I think the thing with vintage from a dealer perspective, it's not super flashy. Like you aren't gonna make crazy margin on vintage cards. You're just not. But if you have it consistently and reliably and price correctly, like it's a very liquid asset and it will continue to bring more customers. And maybe something you can do homework wise, if it's something you wanna get into is like try to network with vintage collectors. Like if you have a customer that buys mostly modern cards from you right now, but you know, like does have a spot in his collection for vintage, like ask him, where are you getting your vintage from? Or what are your favorite cards that sets are from this? Like start to engage in the community of it. And yeah, I would say for the collector side, if you wanna start collecting vintage and don't know where to go, you know, definitely follow me, right? Follow this cards. But also like the podcast, my podcast, I talk about vintage on the Gordie Bonker Show. Try to identify like any YouTube searches around vintage cards. There's a ton of different vintage creators that are out there. Make that specific vintage card account on Instagram and TikTok, and you know, curate your feed to be the information that you want to see. And I think that's a good place to start, but it's not easy, man. It's a very meaty base. And I think that's a long winded answer of what I would do. Oh, no, I think that's super helpful. I'm going to do what you recommended, which is to create an account just where I can make sure that the algorithm's feeding me content around that specifically. I think that's a great idea. I want, you know, I'm going to give homework assignments as well. I want everyone here to go follow you and to engage in the show. You got a podcast, you got a live show on TikTok where you're selling awesome stuff. I hop on there all the time. I love when it comes to seeing, like even on the whatnot, you're going to see more cool vintage move through your show than I've seen on whatnot. And it happens at a quick pace. You're going to see high grade stuff. I've learned a ton just watching your TikTok stream about price points because some of what the vintage market is, is, hey, I don't see a ton of sales on this recently. I've got two data points. So seeing people that are actively engaged in the chat, buying a card or making an offer, that teaches me a lot too. So would you mind kind of giving us, how can people engage with your content? There's a few different ways. I'd love for people to head over there. Thank you. Yeah, the social channels are at Bonkers Cards. So that is across Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook. The live selling show happens on TikTok live. It's at Bonkers Cards on TikTok. It's Sunday nights at 8 p.m. Eastern. And that's where I'm selling cards live. If you want to see my inventory before it comes up for sale on the show, you can subscribe to the newsletter. That's bonkerscards.substack.com. Enter your email there. You'll get a bunch of emails from me just about my experiences building my hobby business, collections I'm picking up, reflections that I've had on the market, stuff like that. So definitely check out the newsletter. And then my podcast is produced by Sports Cards Nonsense Media and the guys with collectibles on SI. So that's the Gordy Bonker Show. And that's wherever you get podcasts. But yeah, man, I sincerely, Jason, want to say how grateful I am for you to be on here and get to ask me about my journey in doing this. It's a really cool moment for me. The last year, it's been a lot to digest at times. And for your audience to know, you had just very organically, we had never spoken before, but you went on my site, you bought a shirt for me, you joined my live show, you talked about me on your podcast in a really positive light. And I remember scrolling my TikTok feed and seeing that clip. And you and I hadn't met before, but you were talking about me as if I'm some name in the hobby. And that was like a really crazy moment for me. So I want to thank you for your generosity. And for anybody out there that listens to the show, because I know there's a lot of you that are doing this, like from my perspective as a dealer, I just want to say that anybody can do this if you work really hard at it and you love it. And I'm very lucky to do something that I love. And if you love doing this, you are going to win because that's what it takes to do it, man. So I really, really can't thank you enough, man. It's a really cool opportunity. Well, we appreciate you. I hope you realize now, whether it was realized before or not, like it or not, you are now a name in this hobby. And I think that that's not about to change anytime soon. With great power comes great responsibility. And for Gary and I, the thing that we love that unfortunately doesn't happen too often is really successful people also being awesome people. And that's the impression that we get with you. And so that's what we're excited about. We can't wait. And we'll be bugging you as our resident vintage nerd, all right? With perhaps the most vintage first name in all of sports cards. Because I know this, and just half these dudes buying from you had a buddy in high school named Gordy. Yeah. There's no doubt in my mind. I love it. I haven't met a lot of other Gordys in my life. You know, I'm the second. My dad's name's Gordy Bonker too. I love my name. I think it's helped me in a lot of ways. People remember me for my name. But yeah, man, I love the energy you bring and you know, keep sharing positivity, man. It's a really fun hobby and I'm gonna keep doing that. I'm gonna keep chugging on. Would love to come back, talk vintage whenever you wanna ask me questions. Hopefully we get some good response and maybe we get some guys that dip their toes in it and have some wins. If they do, feel free to share it with me. My email's bonkerscards at gmail.com. I try to answer as many emails as I can and yeah, man, I'd love to hear more about it. So thank you. Thank you so much for your time today. You got it, man. Later. All right, later. Okay, so I hope you see, we were not under, we were not over promising there. Great interview, great content, great concepts to consider in your business. I know for me, one of the big ones that I'm immediately taking away was the example I gave of, hey, here's two cards, same set. If they were the same grade and same player, blah, blah, blah, and he's saying, you're just overthinking this. It's the same principles. Yes, there's more of a range. So maybe you could reach a little further, but you still need to buy it right, buy it right at that average, buy it right at that spot. Trust your numbers, stick to your metrics. The business model doesn't really change. Great reminder for me on vintages, it's a world where you can feel a little bit lost. And then also, anytime somebody doesn't like something that I don't like, you guys know that. I mean, that's one of our favorite things in the whole show. So hearing him say that about the 62 set made me feel validated as well. You got some homework. So your homework this week, dive into a little more content. I love the way he talked about, just curate the type of content you're wanting to learn more about, build a separate account just for vintage, and then just make sure that you're feeding the right algorithm in there. That's one of the things to do. The next one is to start building some relationships with vintage dealers, collectors, flippers, all that kind of stuff. Build those relationships. There's a wealth of knowledge. Maybe there's a mentor out there in that space as well. And then go where the vintage cards are. So if you are not heading to a show that has much vintage, it's gonna be hard for you to learn much if you only have one person set up and all you see is their stickers, and that's the only picture that you have of what the vintage market can be or the vintage space for collecting. So go to the shows where the vintage cards are, build some relationships, take notes, and don't be afraid to ask questions and dive into the content, become a student of this work. Big takeaways for this show. Once again, super appreciative. We could have Gordie on with us. Be sure to take advantage of that. You'll see us live on that TikTok stream on Sunday nights as well. So I believe it's at 8 Eastern. Make sure you hop on there. We'll be in there. We'll say hey to you too, because I love watching and learning. I watch what these cards are moving for, how quickly they sell, are these constantly getting lower offers? And I'm beginning to learn a little bit about liquidity. Even though there's a larger following, there's still something to gain out of that. So be sure to check them out, follow them in all the ways you can. Thank you for being a part of the Ball Card Show, the sports podcast for The Sports Collector. Bye now.