Seven-Figure Cards From Thin Air + Could Baseball Trigger a Downturn? + The $5 Million Showdown

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Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, Mosaic or nerve conditions including als, Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert Eaton syndrome and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor, visit botoxchronicmigraine.com or call 1-844botox to learn more. Sports Cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now Lee in the building and every guest that you ever needed. Sports cards after hours Keep the hobby heated Updates, homie. Talk like you never seen it. Sports Cards Live and I could ever beat it. Sports cards is a lifestyle. Sports cards and we live now. Welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host, Jeremy Lee. Chris, you want to step in? I love that topic and I'd love to circle back to it, but David prompted an earlier one in my mind and I think it has to be addressed. I, I think this is a great venue to address it. The impact of Otani should not be overlooked. I can tell you from talking to Josh and the team who and Christina and the people who handle the brunt of card ladders, incoming customer service tickets, that Otani is like an overwhelming success subject. Whether it's like, you know, help me find out what this Otani is worth or you know, where's this Ohtani sale, I can't find it and so on and so forth. Ohtani is like such. Ohtani is the cause of many headaches in the card lighter customer service world. Happy head, we're happy to have those headaches. Ohtani in terms of the volume spend on him on a monthly basis right now is on par or exceeding Michael Jordan, who is the monthly top volume guy and Kobe is usually pretty close and Lebron pretty close behind and Ohtani is, is on par or exceeding Michael Jordan. So you have to think about the mechanism, right? Like what is, what does that do when there's a bunch of people buying Ohtani cards and paying incredible prices for them? What does it mean for Fanatics that they can put an Ohtani logoman autograph one of one in any product they want and they are manufacturing seven figure cards out of thin air, brand new releases. You don't even need to be the car, just, just the redemption is enough to command a seven figure price. And so here's, here's when I say mechanism, think about it on those two levels, on the level of what does it do to the open market and then what does it do to the confidence that it gives a manufacturer to reinvest in the space to continue to make products and so forth. On the open market level, it's this. All those Otani cards were owned by somebody and owned by many people know, just the hypothetical chain of custody. You know, when that Otani card went from 100 bucks in 2019 to a thousand bucks in 2021 to 10,000 bucks in 2025 to 25,000 bucks today. You know, that's a capital infusion that, that came into this space. And if the people who are owning those Otani Cards who then turned $100 card into a thousand bucks. Or let's say the guy who bought it at a thousand didn't sell until it reached 25,000. If he takes his $24,000 profit and his principal and he turns it around and he buys many, many more cards with it, you can see how just the impact of Ohtani multiplies the capital ecosystem. And it's especially relevant because a lot of Ohtani buyers are not the normal typical demographic of buyer of especially the ultra modern baseball you have. I see high end basketball guys coming in and doing Ohtani stuff. I see new people who aren't, you know, rich in hobby history coming in and dabbling in, in Ohtani. So the Ohtani phenomenon is just massive. And of course it makes people look at the much larger arc of baseball card history and they think about Ohtani, they think about can he be a goat? And then when you think about Kenny be a goat then you think, well who are the other goats? And you start thinking, I mean naturally Babe Ruth comes to mind. Babe Ruth stands to benefit tremendously from the Ohtani comparisons as long as those go on. But so do all the all time greats. You know another guy who has been a secondary beneficiary of the Ohtani run up Barry Bonds. Because people are like this guy is how many MVPs and Ohtani's like halfway to him. Okay. So you can start to see the, the, the, the trickle down effect and then the manufacturer, you look at Fanatics and you say man, they're like oh my gosh, we've got this rock star in baseball which like isn't always thought of as the most sexy ultra modern sport. We've got this rock star here who literally lets us just make these monster seven figure cards. And anytime we want, let's keep this going, let's. We need to keep on building this space. We have a Goldin ticket here. So there's some thoughts inspired by David name dropping. Sh. Yu-Gi-Oh I love the way you just put it. They can create seven figure cards out of thin air and Yu-Gi-Oh And continue to suck money out of the hobby. Not out of the hobby but out of collectors pockets and into, into the ecosystem. But that's what keeps, that's what just keeps this whole thing spinning. I, I wonder week after week, month after month how all the, all the auction houses, the ebays, the Fanatics collects and all the auction houses, how they continuously find cards, especially the vintage auction houses. Like it feels like every month you could put together a Tito 6 set. If you just went through all the auction catalogs out there, there, it's. The stuff's just always available. Are people dying that often that their estates are going to auction? Or is it. Is it some grand master manipulation plan where it's just like the car just keep on moving around auction house to auction house? What's. Where. Where is the supply constantly coming from every single day? I'm not asking, not looking for an answer. I'm just. That's something that sort of mystifies me when I start to think about that just as a random topic again. I'm just throwing one out there. Anyone got anything on, Anything on it? Go ahead, Joe. Just. I mean, I think, I think it is a byproduct of some people getting older. And, and, you know, think about this. Like, if you're 70 and you were collecting, say in the 70s, you could have a massive collection. And that's a lot of products. So that's, that's kind of what I think of is like people are maybe gradually, you know, moving off of some stuff that they've acquired over decades and decades. If you know, to speak to the T206 example. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh But could be, could be what? Let's go back to the. The impending strike and the impact that that can have on other cards, because there was a comment I want to go to in the chat, a couple comments in the chat here. First, Charles says nothing is normal in the hobby anymore. one-of-one that the truth. KK said the lockout will crush the modern and the old cards. It'll increase supply and reduce demand. Not hard to figure this out. I don't. I. I mean, maybe I, I'm missing it, but I don't know how it's going to crush older cards. I would think that if you're, if you're a collector, if you're a baseball collector and you've been collecting, you collect from, you know, all the eras that are important to you. Go back to the 50s, let's say, or even the 80s. If you're down on the modern guys, are you going to be down on the sport altogether? And I'm sure different people are gonna have different answers to that, but I would think, I would think that it's now, it goes back to almost to Dylan's comment the other day. Like, Yu-Gi-Oh cards are. If cards are too expensive, go work on one of your other lanes you have as a collector. Well, if your modern baseball cards are no longer compelling to you because you're mad at the player, you're mad at baseball or whatever. You're mad at the owners, the players, whoever. Maybe you're gonna go back and collect cards in that other lane that you're collecting. Maybe you're gonna go focus on your 60s run of Maze or your 50s run of Whomever or whatever in it might be. You might pick up a, you might pick up a project that you put down for a while during the baseball season, knowing that you only had a few months left. So I don't know if it's for sure gonna crush old cards or if it'll increase the supply of old cards. I think it could have the opposite effect there. So maybe I'm just not smart enough. As smart as KK is here because he says it's not hard to figure out. David, you had your, your hand up there. What, what is, what are your thoughts? My thought was actually more for a second just. I want to touch on what Chris was saying about Ohtani for just one quick second. Man. When you were talking about how they can just pull out million dollar cards in today's world and really produce those whenever they want, I feel like it's just that that scares me a little bit, right? For it not to be a rookie card like it used to be or one that's from seven years ago or like it's the new player's first card. I just google looked at chat GPT of the players that have the most cards of them distinct, different cards. Otani has the second most, has the most distinct cards in the entire hobby forever. And he's only in his ninth season. Okay, he is going in number one's Griffey. He's going to beat him. I'm sure at this pace, within two years, okay, he will have the most distinct cards of any other player. We talk about supply and demand and I know how amazing Ohtani is, but God, that's a lot of cards that they are making. And they know that this is not scarcity. This is them knowing we can keep producing this. They can put out 101 of 1 cards. They can get a new patch from his back every game if they want to. Like this doesn't scare any of us that they're able to produce these kind of cards year after year and know that they're million dollar cards. I don't know, it scares me a little bit. Well, one question is, does it continue to bring the money in? I mean, maybe there is an endless supply of optim and excitement and passion for Ohtani. Like I'm saying that tongue in Cheek to some degree. But you know so far that seems to be the formula. I think there is, there seems to be no shortage of money coming in. So Yu-Gi-Oh David, I, I, your concern is of course valid but as the thing is that they're going to make them as long as people are buying them. And these, these Fanatics, premier auctions are ridiculously stacked with good cards breaking records month after month. I think we had a hundred and something hundred thousand dollar cards on in one night last Thursday there it was absolutely out of control. So I don't know, I mean that's this the hobby. It's like that comment from earlier. Nothing is from Charles. Nothing is normal in the hobby anymore, has it? Have the fundamentals of the hobby, the industry changed so much in the last five years that, that you know your traditional sort of analysis of supply and demand a market, market cycles. Even with the, the comment that KK made, not hard to figure it out. Have they changed that dramatically that they're just not relevant anymore. The, the typical ways that things are looked that, that they're analyze the lenses that are used to look at the market. Maybe those lenses are you know, Absolute now and you can't do that anymore. I don't know. I feel like I had thoughts like this during the pandemic rise and I want to say I learned my lesson then but it is different this time. It's different than it was in Covid and it's different than it was in the early 90s during the junk wax era, but doesn't mean it's going to last, just means it's different. I'm not saying it's, it's good different or bad different. I don't know what the different, what the difference is. Not only well maybe some people do know but Charles. Chris, you want to say something? Yu-Gi-Oh A quick thought on like the idea that the strike could be a catalyst for a market Downtown I think the idea that that could increase supply while demand decreases at the same time is very insightful. And the demand side of it is the one that I want to focus on very quickly which is this. The thing that is structural to sports card demand is that every sport and every product suite of cars that attaches to a sport are cyclical. And you have this six, seven, eight month long season, then you get this off season and there's products continuously coming out. And importantly each product is typically associated with a season. So there's this like natural limiting constraints on how many products can come out associated with a specific season. It Structures and organizes things. It allows for chronological comparisons. Oh, this product's 10 years old, this product's 8 years old, this one's for the 2012 season, this one's for the 2020 season, this one's for the 1953 season, etc. It gives a lot of structure, and that structure coincides with the natural generation of news. Constantly, every season, there are new pieces of information, exciting headlines, storylines, narratives, guys doing things to put themselves into the media spotlight. And then that has these spillover effects. Like when we're talking about Victor Wembanyama and what he might do with the spurs, it can't help but call to mind Tim Duncan and what he did with the Spurs. They play. Tim Duncan arguably is a 4A power forward. Wembanyama is a center. But what he. What Duncan accomplished, the five championships and the MVPs, and the great reputation as a great defensive player who then polished off his offensive game, too, like Tim Duncan, benefits from that. If we didn't have an NBA season, if we didn't have a context and a platform for a guy like Wembanyama to emerge and to create these storylines, then we'd be thinking about Tim Duncan a lot less, too. Even though he's not even playing, but he's the beneficiary, he's the secondary guy. You're one of the great examples is every time the 49ers go to the Zebra bowl, there's a spike in Joe Montana and Jerry Rice cards, because people are thinking about those great 49ers legacy runs. And then all of a sudden, here's Jerry Rice, you know, coming out on the field before the Zebra bowl. Or here's Joe Montana. All of a sudden, he's doing commercials. And these are the cat. The word catalyst was such a great word from the chat. These are catalysts. These are things that cause people to think about, oh, Jerry Rice, you know what? Let me look up some of his cards. It really is that simple. It's profoundly simple. So the idea, if there is a strike in baseball, it doesn't just affect the modern and it doesn't just affect current products. All those spillover effects, all the thinking that we do about the legacy and the history of the sport and how. How much momentum, the playing of the sport on a daily basis for a full season generates interest in the great history that that sport possesses, all that goes away during a strike there. Yu-Gi-Oh you're tying in. There was a con. There was a comment here. Oh, it was KK who kicked a lot of this off saying. I'm just saying if you, if you know you need the money in the future, lock in at least in profit, read any of the financial books. And then like you said here, I think you're picking on this last bit or that's what you're referring to. The MLB is a catalyst for a Downtown right? Yu-Gi-Oh But is the hobby strong enough, the rest of the hobby strong enough to rally to make sure that it doesn't impact all the other segments? I think, I think it is. I think it can be. But only, only time, only time will tell. So we'll, we'll see how it goes. Anyone have any other comments on what Chris said or anything? Chris, you got, you got. Yu-Gi-Oh go ahead, Joe. It's an interesting point. HOJ and I the one thing it makes me consider is how do these non sports will hold up as we get into some of the more robust times of, you know, the NFL and the NBA. Because you know, like occasionally there's a, like there is right now a new release of a Spider man movie. Right. So that's probably kind of like upticking something. But you know, there's, there's, I think what I'm hearing you say is there's kind of this natural cyclical stimulation to our thinking about, you know, if it's not, if it's not Tim Duncan, maybe it's Wilt Chamberlain. You know, we're like Wim Binyama, Wilt Chamberlain. You know, Yu-Gi-Oh Like who, who would you prefer? And that's, that invites us to consider. So I'm curious in the context, especially since we have a couple people that are, you know, aficionados of non sports. I wonder if that sensibility, it leaves non sports cards potentially vulnerable. Propel fitness water with Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar and vitamins. Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you propel with Gatorade? Electrolytes chronic migraine is 15 or more headache days a month each lasting four hours or more. Botox Onobotulinum toxin A prevents headaches in adults with chronic chronic migraine before they start. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It prevents on average eight to nine headache days a month versus six to seven for placebo. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, Yu-Gi-Oh problems or Mosaic weakness can be signs of a life threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, Mosaic or nerve conditions including als, Lou Gehrig's disease, Myasthenia gravis or Lambert Eaton syndrome and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor, visit botoxchronicmigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. This Labor Day at Lowe's, get up to 45% off select major AppLian plus deals on select materials and tools to keep the job moving right now. Get a free DeWalt 20 volt max battery two pack when you buy a select DeWalt 20 volt max tool at Lowe's, we have what you need to keep your job moving. Battle through 913 while supplies last. Selection varies by location. See Lowes.com for more details. Every game day you show up for your team. Now it's your time. Ask your prescriber about WeGovy semaglutide injection 2.4mg a GLP1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOVY or visit WeGovy.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about WeGovy. Why wait? WeGovie David, I'll tell you what I think is the scariest thing to me when I'm thinking about vintage non sports cards and I think about this a lot, okay, because I love my vintage non sports cards but they've also increased in price such a significant amount in a short period of time. But here's the issue that I'm having with vintage non sports and this is going through my mind at all times is that we have had grading issues during the last few months with PSA and because we haven't been able to submit our lower cost cards, really, these vintage non sports went nuclear since the national for literally the last 30 days and I just think that there's a lot of cards that are out there that are not graded, that are raw, that are in the vintage non sports space and because they were $20 cards or $50 cards or $75 cards, they people didn't spend the effort to grade them and now that they're $2,000 cards I think there's a lot of supply of these raw cards that are waiting to be sent in for grading. And what's going to happen is when they finally open up these cheaper tiers, I think they're going to get a huge supply of these vintage non sports cards that are raw and I think that there's going to be a lag of like six months and then I think we're going to see a population rise on a lot of these cards. Not all of them. There's a lot of these cards that there's only 30 of them that exist but there's some of these that we have no idea. And the pop is at 400 and it could get to 3000 in a very short period of time because every single person now is going into their closet and finding these cards because they are on everyone's radar right now. That's the part that scares me with vintage non sports. Legitimate fear it was I remember the early days of grading and the, the BGS 9.5s were going for so much because there were a few of them and now those cards, you cannot get them cheaper now than he could in 1999, 2000. Interesting, interesting the way it changes and but you're right David, it's on more and more people's radar now. And but will those car. Can people afford to get them graded? Like there was that one guy who Goldin afford his grading, his eighteen thousand dollar grading charge so he had to get somebody to buy the card so that they could pay him so he could pay the for the grading. Who knows? Yu-Gi-Oh I'm gonna go with some more comments here but guys, raise your hand if you have anything here. Charles here said football and basketball is going to take a big jump during the impending lockout. Could be. Bob Boozle says maybe all those modern baseball card collectors will start collecting V friends once the strike happens. See, maybe a couple go that way. Situational says how about the timing of the lockout versus the opening of value tiers for grading? Tell you what, if the lockout ends and value tiers open, that might be the catalyst for the next big pop in the hobby. JG says baseball collectors will turn to one piece. Christian here says so Shohei is a buy next year. I mean if he, if his values go down, that might be a buy. But Double O's car guy says no way Ohtani goes down if there's a strike and if he does, everyone will be buying. He's a baseball guy so he's speaking on behalf of him and other baseball collectors. Malcolm, this is a moloko says Sports stopped in Covid and card sales went bananas. That hasn't come up yet in our discussion tonight, except for really right now by Moloko. And I think that's an astute comment to make you think about what, because it's almost the most recent like case study we have in sports stopping now. People were bored. That's. They had nothing else to do. So they found this. But nowadays people are so used to being card collecting card collectors, if baseball stops, maybe they'll get bored again and find something else in the hobby to collect. I don't know. I'm just putting it out there, Chris. I see the lean in. I does that. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh There's a. It's. I love the points by Malco and he's right, but it's a little more precise than that. So we had sports stop that coincide with everybody staying at home. That coincided with that Last Dance documentary. That coincided with a wild summer of 2020. Sports then started coming back pretty quickly. So the NBA had its bubble in I guess, August of 2020 and then its next season started like a few months later and the NFL was back and the MLB was back and we actually had a. Had a dip. The fall of 2020 leading into the winter of 2020 was the market was on a Downtown You can look at price indexes and see the prices were going down. Prices turned around and skyrocketed when the calendar turned to 2021. So if we. It's a good observation and it's right that especially those first few months of COVID where there were no sports, but it coincided with everybody staying at home trying to discover old hobbies and it coincided with that Last Dance documentary. Those things all created in environments where card prices could go up for a little while. But they started. It was scary. I remember this especially as somebody who had just started a new business in the year 2020 in this space. And I remember looking at prices tick down, tick down, tick down, tick down in those fall and winter months of 2020 and then seeing things absolutely turn around when 2021 came around. Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, I remember those early Covid signs that the world was about to shut down and thinking that, you know, cards could all this could be the end, this could be the end of it. And of course, the opposite did happen. And I think, Chris, that delay between, you know, the shutdown and the hobby taking off was people processing what's going on and, and adjusting to their new lifestyles. And then, and then the hobby went absolutely bonkers. Once they once we kind of realized too that hey, this isn't just going to be a 60, 90, 120 day shutdown of the world of travel, of going out to eat, of going to movies, of going to anything, getting together with neighbors even. And, and, and as those months ticked by in 2020, all of a sudden we realize that, wait a second, this is kind of the best thing that could have happened to the hobby. And, and it sure did. So, and I appreciate you clarifying that because it wasn't immediate, that's for sure. Joe, you good? I'm good. Okay. Okay, back to the couple of cars. So thank you KK for, for that one and Moloko as well. Great comments, guys. Boozle says, will Jeremy Lee shut down sports Cards live if there is an MLB strike? I mean, we, I do have the same agent as half of the New York Yankees, so we'll see. I'll. I'll take their advice for sure. Christian here says even if there's a lockout, as soon as it ends, the next product release will do crazy numbers. I agree with this comment. I think that once it ends, it's gonna be just a, a free for all in the hobby with massive. And think about it, all the breakers who might not be able to sell as many cards and spots as they were. And there's a similar comment in the chat earlier. All of a sudden they're back in business. They're or back to, to current levels of business. And they will be, they will be like promoting this stuff and, and shouting it out as much as they've ever done it. So I think, I think. What do you guys think about this? Like, I agree with what Christian is saying here that as soon as it ends the next product release and those after will do, will. Will go crazy. I think that will happen. People will be very hungry, craving new products. Like, anyone have any thoughts on that? That makes sense. That makes sense. Yu-Gi-Oh that makes sense. That makes sense. Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, you know, one, one little extra factor with the whole Shohei conversation is, you know, he just got injured somewhat recently or he's been injured for a while and he's finally sitting out some games. Something like that could derail a lot. But short of that, I think you're right. I think sometimes absence makes the heart grow fonder and you know, you could, you could find yourself in a position where we, we're starved a little bit from baseball and Pete Crowe Armstrong, I guess is, you know, like, oh my God, give me some Pete Crow Armstrong, please. Anyone else have any thoughts thanks, Joe. No. Okay, let's. We have a. I want to thank Cavs fan for the contribution the Zebra chat as they're called. And he asks what card do you think is going to sell for more the Kobe logo man on alt or the flag debut patch auto on Fanatics. And will the winner be the best basketball card sale of 2026? Josh Adams, let's start with you on this one. What do you think's gonna sell for more Kobe logo man on alt or flag debut patch on Fanatics? Let me tell you something. I am the wrong person to ask about this because I have no idea about either of these cards. So with your gut. Go with your gut. With your gut, Josh. That's what I'm gonna do. Kobe. I mean Cooper. I mean, what's the day. Is that the thing with the little patch on the card from his jersey? Yu-Gi-Oh The other card's dumb. So you're saying Kobe. Kobe logo man. So was this. Oh Yu-Gi-Oh it's a Kobe logo man card. Yu-Gi-Oh Is it a 101 prob? I'm not sure of the exact car, but probably. Chris, do you know what the Kobe card is? Yu-Gi-Oh So you know that well known now infamous LeBron Jordan 12.92 million dollar card, the dual logoman autograph of the two. This is a card from the same set the same year, the same product. Except instead of Jordan and Kobe as the dual logo man autograph counterparts, it is LeBron and Kobe as the dual logoman autograph counterparts. Yu-Gi-Oh LeBron Kobe. To borrow a term from our friend. It's a bozo card, but it's gonna go for. And it's already at 4.2 million with BP over at Alt. Josh, you're saying the log the Kobe Lebron logo man is a bozo card? I think so. I mean, I never got it. For me it is. I never got into logo man cards, I think or any other those patches just. But this is a. Chris, this is a dual exquisite logo man. That's right. Well, there's no doubt that's going to go for more than the flag in my mind. And it's. And I know we know who's going to buy it. It's almost got to be the wonderful index. It's got to be right. That's what makes it a bozo card. Because look who's gonna buy it. But they're gonna have to outbid people. They're gonna have to outbid the. The next size bidder. You gotta think, right? Yu-Gi-Oh What say. Go ahead, Josh. Oh, you think it's, you think there's going to be funny business going on? Of course the next highest bidder is, you know, the call's coming from inside the house. Like, come on. Well, could be. I think, I think it's a no brainer. Like how could you spend more money on a Cooper flag than you could on a Kobe LeBron dual auto logo, man? Like, to me that's, that's the one. But. And will the winner be the best basketball card sale? 26. Only to me if it's the co. If it's the Kobe LeBron. David. Well, well, here I just looked up on Chat GPT. What is your guess on how much that flag card is going to go for? According to Chat GPT? Yu-Gi-Oh What did it say? Do you have a guess? 1.1.1 what? 3? Yu-Gi-Oh I'm asking you what, what's your guess? 2 mil, you said? Yu-Gi-Oh I'll just say 2 mil. How about you, Chris? Well, I'm wondering if it was able to see there was like permanent content put to Instagram from one group who were increasing their bounty over and over again. And they put their bounty at 4.2 million I think before they tapped out. And then alt ran like a pre auction of it that I think ended up getting it around that number, maybe around like 3.8 million. But also it was just a pre auction. Like it was the, it was, it was weird. But so I don't know. I think GPT can see those things. I think it should maybe say 4 million. Do you, do you have a guess, Josh? I'll just go with What Chris said, 4 million. And Joe, do you have a guess on the flag? I'm gonna go under. I'm gonna say 2.75. So according to chat GPT, which is always right, 4.2 to 4.7. You were right in the ballpark, Chris. So I'm assuming it says there's a possibility of 5 million plus, but it's not that they say 4 to 5 million is 40%. 3 to 4 million 20%. 2 to 3 million 10%. So I think you already said that the Kobe card is like right around 4 million already, right? Yu-Gi-Oh 4.2 now. Yu-Gi-Oh So I would be surprised if that card didn't go for much more. I think you're right. Yu-Gi-Oh It's such an interesting tension too because on the one hand I and many others certainly look at that and say like, how is this even a conversation that we're comparing these two cards? Yu-Gi-Oh right. Yu-Gi-Oh But on the Other hand, it's like, but, but if we didn't have that flag, if we're whoever, if swap out flag for whoever the heralded prospect is of the time, then do we have as many people caring about that Kobe and LeBron card also? And does how do they interact with each other? So it's just, it's an interesting interplay that exists between like the new shiny card and the old established, you know, trophy and how they impact each other. Juxtaposition. Well, here's a few comments on this topic. First Christian says I think to Josh, what cards does that guy even like? Then. You had Christian some cards you wish you had. Well call them the, the dual logo man of bozo card. I mean it is, you know, if the Jordan Kobe did 12.9 or whatever, 13.9, whatever that was the, the Kobe LeBron. I mean now we're later on too, right? Like the hobby's gone crazy since they bought that card. I, I could see that duel doing $10 million here. So is the flag gonna reach out? I don't think so. That's why I, I think the duo will. Will outsell the flag. And I said 2 million and I'm happy to be wrong. And it's 4 or 5. I, I'll succeed to chat GPT David. And what would be considered a more valuable card if it was so with LeBron and Kobe right now or would it be LeBron and Jordan, which would be a more coveted card for the same set? I gotta think anything with Jordan on it is gonna outsell anything with LeBron on it. I think, I think. Yu-Gi-Oh Joe is nodding. Chris is subtly nodding. I think that's inside. He's processing. Yu-Gi-Oh Because there's. But also. But what if like there's only one of the one type and there's like five of the other type, you know. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh Okay. Gotta consider the whole menu, right Chris? Right. Exactly. It's a, it's a great question though. Playing days. I don't know. Yu-Gi-Oh Well, Mark here says. Mark says look at the mentality the current card buyers. The debut patch is goo goo Gaga for these dummies. Cage says it's gonna be close. Flag gonna do 5 million. Yu-Gi-Oh I think you have the dual will do double that, but we'll see. And Flint hall says Josh is 1 billion percent correct. It's all rigged. And card ladder should have confirmation from all bidders before they list as a real sale. Chris, do you want to address that at all? Yu-Gi-Oh I love the comments. And that's the spirit that we should all have is that well, not necessarily to think everything's rigged necessarily although many things might be but to want the full confirmation all bidders, that is going to be tough and but that's the right question to ask the best information that will ever be made publicly available or that we'll ever be able to see at Card Ladder is just does the platform that's selling it ultimately certify that it got paid? That's going to be the best we're going to be able to do. I wish we could do. I wish everybody could do better. And even then, even with the certification of paid that mean that's meaningful. But that doesn't guarantee it was an arm's length transaction. And to Flynn Hall's underlying point, we don't know who the other bidders were either and that information would be very helpful. So I think that's a great comment. You don't know who they are. You have no way of knowing who they are to contact them. That's a privacy the issue. So you never could. So it's, it's almost just a non starter. So while you might have liked the comment, I think some of it was just stupid. You can't do anything like, like it was just really thought not practical. Yu-Gi-Oh it's not practical. Practical might be a better way than a better word than than stupid but and I say stupid stuff all the time too, so. Me too, Jeremy. Yu-Gi-Oh I get it. I Goldin even remember what the three sports leagues were A few minutes goes Mid Atlantic says flag debut patch. You can buy a high a minor league baseball team for $5 million. Yu-Gi-Oh but I'm not collecting baseball teams Mid Atlantic. We're, we're collecting cards. It's. It's like saying well you could go by the whole jersey instead of just the pats. I don't want the jersey. I want the patch card. But your your point is well taken as well. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the sports cards live community. 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