Signs Of A Bullish Sports Card Market Heading Into 2026; Latest Hobby Scam Using AI; Another Fun Round Of Quiz Show!

You're listening to Cards to the Moon, a podcast about trading cards from both a collector and investor perspective. We hope you'll stick around for the ride as we take a deep dive into the state of the hobby, share some hot takes, hopefully some useful advice and fun stories along the way. Hey guys, welcome back to Cards to the Moon. This is episode 341 and my name is Clark from 5cardguys.com and you can also find me at 5cardguys, all one word, on Instagram or on YouTube or on Facebook. Co-hosting with me, as usual, is Hyung who you can find at ChoHyung on Instagram and YouTube and John's away this week, but hopefully he'll be back with us soon. All right, it's our first episode together in 2026 and I'm looking forward to another solid year in the hobby. Right away, there's no shortage of things to talk about in the hobby, so we can get right into it. Off the top, I don't know if this came across your social media feed, Hyung, but apparently AI is now being used to scam collectors in the hobby. I think it was just a matter of time. How you ask? Some people are using AI to recreate images of damaged cards where the buyer can then submit a false claim and ask for a refund. So is there anything you think we can do about this other than just waiting for platforms like eBay to adjust and get wise to these schemes or what do you think? So they were using AI to fake images and send it to eBay saying that the card was damaged? I don't know if it's to eBay, but it sounds like yes to wherever they're selling the cards. This sounds like they were doing this on DoorDash, weren't they? Where they were returning food saying that the food was undercooked and they're like a burger and they would take a pic, use AI and it would be like red and they want a refund and DoorDash would give them a refund or it was Uber Eats or whatever, but it sounds similar. That is similar. With that being said, what was the question? Well, in that case, do you know what DoorDash did? How did platforms combat this? Yeah, I mean you're going to have to combat it in a way where you have to know what's AI and what's not. We all know. We've scrolled through some videos and we don't know what is real and what is not now. So there is that part. I don't know if you could really police it because I think over time there has to be a way to be able to at least distinguish whether this was generated, if this is a real image or not. To me, that's the dangers of AI and it's not necessarily the industry to kind of point fingers at. It's like, who are these people? Is it the whole hobby doing this or is it those select few? It's the same thing with theft. Is it an ongoing issue because it's something to do with the hobby or is it just people that try to take advantage of other people? You see what I'm saying? It's like you really can't, I don't think necessarily police it, but I would want to say that these companies, like I said, these guys are industry leaders, whether it's eBay, Fanatic. Hey, you guys asked for it. It's your job to solve the problems that are in the hobby and we don't know what those problems are and day to day they arise and that's what we're seeing. We're seeing collectively the issues that need to be addressed in terms of how technology grows with it. Now, is that to say that all technology is bad because of that? You can't say that statement, obviously, because we're very bullish on the tech in general, but of course there are going to be issues and these are the ones that we hope that the bigger companies can really utilize internally what they could do to solve this issue. Sure. No, I agree with you. I'm honestly just bringing it up as more of a public service announcement so that the scam is going out there, but I think to your point, these bigger platforms, these bigger companies will have to do their part in using technology themselves to identify what are AI images and what aren't or if it comes to it, if it becomes a bigger problem, because I also agree with you that I don't think it's as big a problem than people think. It's happened once or twice, but for the most part, people are honest right now, at least in the hobby, and I think as long as it's kept small, then it shouldn't be a bigger issue, but if it does, then maybe they have to ask for more proof, actually send in the broken slab and then we can give you, if there's other ways to get about it, but anyway, I thought it was somewhat of an amusing story just because of the craziness of AI these days and even in some of my IG reels, I'm using AI clips just to illustrate a point and it's crazy what AI can do now. It's only going to get smarter and faster as we go and we're not talking about years. It's here and it's evolving rapidly and that's the realities and hopefully people like PSA can maybe implement AI so we don't get these PSA 7s randomly, but my point is even the turnaround times, it's like how much, if you guys can't, if bulk service is still taking months and months and months, these are the things that I'm looking forward to technology or at least the big players in the game utilizing technology in that way, especially because the smaller companies I don't think really have the full capacity of AI yet. You still need a lot of money to do custom, I guess, AI apps as a company if you're going that direction and I really think that a company like PSA, they need to implement AI sooner than later and get real grades because I think that's part of the issue I have. With grading, not to make this a grading thing again, but it kills the subjectivity of the grading and pricing because it's a marketplace and because our whole marketplace is determined on grades. So for me, it's like it cannot be that subjective where I'm relying on Billy to grade my card and I've seen a reel where they said they spend an average of less than, it was something ridiculous. 20 seconds, yeah. Yes, I'm like, what? I can't even, I'm trying to do a rock hard review on my own and I'm taking two minutes to make sure my card is, there's nothing wrong with it, right? To me, that's ridiculous. That's the issue. That's a huge issue. It's like you guys are selling before you guys could actually pull through. So for me, that's, I don't know how we got here, Clark, but yeah, like AI. I was going to say, we're one regular episode in and we're already griping about grading. That's the nature of the hobby these days. And I'm sending 20 cards in or 10 cards in today with Roy. We're a slave to the grading system, but I have a theory. We're not going to harp on it. Maybe we'll save it for a different episode. But I said this before on our pod, I think PSA already has a capability. They just don't need to implement it now because they're way ahead of everyone else. And when it becomes a financial issue, when people start mistrusting PSA, then they could bring it out and say like, oh, actually we got this new, you know what I mean? I could see that. Maybe I'm cynical, but I think that's how a lot of big companies work. So do you think that the bottleneck is something that PSA actually wants? Because it brings value to their express service. It brings value to their regular service. I thought about that too, yeah. And their upcharges. I would say that's a massive part of their business. So do they want to fix the issue of turnaround times? Or is it one of those things where it's like, we don't want to be like, AI could grade 10,000 cards in whatever. Do we want to be that quick? Or do we want to slowly introduce it to a point where when we need to, we'll turn on those gears? Or you know what? We're going to offer a new collector, special exclusive collector subscription. You sign up for a thousand bucks a year. Guess what? You get your cards faster and then they use the AI system on that. That's as bad as the upcharge. You think someone like Kevin O'Leary would care? I don't think so. No, that's the thing. The marketplace only cares about what it's valued for. So at the end of the day, if people are willing to pay, and another point, I know we're really going on a tangent. Let's go for it. But even price of boxes, it's like, I see comments all the time and people are just ripping fanatics. It's like, I don't think that's who we need to be griping at. There's a lot more at play. And in general, I just think the hobby is just growing so fast and so much at an exponential rate. And we haven't really, you know, kind of slowed down really. Even the downturn in 2021-2022, when the whole economy was in a downturn, it still is. It still continues to outperform the dollar by a lot, we'll say. And to me, it's like, that's an evolving marketplace. We've been in the middle of a massive. So if you say, you know, this marketplace was $50 million in 2018, and now it's exceeding a billion dollars, let's just say 10 years later, there has to be a process in between. That's what we're seeing right here. And yeah, I don't know how we got here again, Clark, but I think we should move on. You know what, that's a good segue because what we're going to talk about is the hobby in general and where the market is, and how everything like you were just saying seems to be booming right now. So yeah, with that, let's move on to hobby headlines. All right. So I know when we did our year-end wrap up, we were all pretty much agreed that 2025 was a banner year for the hobby. And now looking forward to 2026, I think we're hoping that momentum will continue this year. But you never know, you just mentioned it, with the economy still in decline, for the most part, affordability being an issue for a lot of people, you just don't know which way things will go in the hobby. But I came across this one article on collect.com, and Will Stern, the writer of this one article I'm going to mention, he put out some numbers out there that really gives a bullish outlook on the hobby. So I want to go over some of them and get your thoughts on what you think, all right? First, we know the COVID years in the hobby were crazy with record-breaking highs, but 2025 in some ways mirrored those years. This time, we don't have the reason that people spent their COVID money on cards, right? So for example, in the article, there's a number of cards, he cites, that sold for at least a million dollars, for at least seven figures, all right? So starting from 2019, there was only one card that sold for over a million. Then you go to 2020, nine cards. Then in 2021, this is like right in COVID now, 43, 2022, 41, okay? So those are the peak, 43 and 41 cards that sold for a million bucks or more. Then in 2023, you get 11, 2024, you get seven. So now we're on that major correction side of things. And then that brings us to 2025. Do you know how many there were? From 11, seven, and in 2025, it rebounds to what? 25. Pretty close, 29. Wow. Yeah. Very bullish. So we're back on this rebound, right? Yeah. A question I have, what do you think is contributing to this rebound in the high-end cards? Obviously it's high-end if it's selling for seven figures. What do you think some of those reasons are? One, expansion of marketplace. Two, supply and demand with the growth of the marketplace. Now people are bidding on overpaying, I would say, than true value. But tomorrow's prices might be a little more expensive. That's the only thing, right? So yeah, I think it's a combination, really. Yeah. I mean, when you say expansion of the marketplace too, it's expansion of people who are buying cards, right? The number of people who are buying cards, and that includes people like Kevin O'Leary, you know, the rich people, right? That's the tricky part now because you're now attracting celebrities and people in different income brackets. You're attracting owners of large corporations that are now understanding, hey, if we're building this marketplace, really, I'm going to lock in the top assets for cheap. And that's when now, even before, I'm saying, guys, there's institutional money in, you know, there's people that are just taking away, you know, cards that are grails because, you know, history repeats itself. It's like in the 90s or 2000s, if you had a chance to even buy a Mickey Mantle PSA 7, 6, people would think you're absolutely insane, right? But it's the same thing. It's like, if you knew where the market's going to be in five years, let's just say, what are you going to do right now if you had the money in a growing marketplace? You're going to lock up the supply-demand cards, the one-of-ones, the out-of-25s, the reds out of five, you know, the really, really rare cards. I mean, we said it before. for it's like, is it worth that much? Probably not. But, you know, as the marketplace grows, and as the lives of these athletes grow, that's obviously important part sports wise, I don't know, I still don't know how Pokemon works. But that's how sports works, guys. Okay. So the athlete must like, continue to progress in his career. So those are the two things where, you know, and if you look at sports gambling as a whole, I think we've bled it in so much now, because you see fan duel everywhere. So people are betting out betting on outcome of the game. The hobby is like you're you're betting on people's careers really in in the high level picture, right? So I'm not saying it's, it should be considered gambling. But, you know, you say what a risk, risk taking, everything's risk taking, let's just say business is taken. Yeah. But yeah, you get my point. I like that take the sports betting side of things definitely, I think, contributes to where we are. And institutional money coming into the hobby marketplace. That's a huge point that kind of relates to more people seeing as all alternative asset, right, that they can invest in. Kevin O'Leary is a prime example. And I don't know if you heard my interview with my friend last week, the non collector, and he's big into crypto, but he was mentioning the point that, you know, rich people aren't looking to make money. Well, they are always but, you know, the bigger concern is how to, how do they keep their money or grow their money, right? And so they are, they're always looking for alternative assets to invest in. And you mentioned Kevin O'Leary, I just watched. What's that movie? Marty Supreme, Marty Supreme. Yeah, I'm freaking mind blown. I'm mind blown. Like, yeah, kudos to Kevin O'Leary. I hope he's hearing this. But like, I was shocked that, you know, he was he was actually really good. But not only that, I'm talking about the whole business side of things. It's, it's like you have a guy that has millions and millions and millions of eyes on him from a daily perspective. And this guy just bought a $13 million Kobe Jordan auto like insane. But this is what I'm talking about. That's just one person. You multiply that with the celebrity effect, the social media, you know, and to me, it's like, if you had money, let's just say money, you're not even, you know, worried about money. It's like, go buy whatever card you want. No budget. Yep. It only takes like a handful of people to really affect the market. If you have hundreds of people 1000s of people doing that, that high end markets going to move. But that's the illusion though. Because the peasants, which is us. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you got Dick's sporting goods buying $1.1 million Paul Skeen's MOB debut patch cards, you got that Taiwanese company buying that Shoei Otani 5050 ball for four or $5 million. So yeah, there are few and far between, but they do move the market. At the same time, I think this is what you're alluding to, if they ever decide to move out of the market, then things start to move the other way quickly as well. Right. So you got to keep that in mind. And on that point, you know, the author of this article also gives different card prices. So a million is obviously a few people can play in that in that game, but cards that sold for over 100,000. So still a lot of money still limited to few collectors. But in 2019, 79 cards sold for 100,000. I'll go all the way down to 2021 2022, which is COVID peak 978 and 1037, respectively. All right. And the next two years, the same pattern, it decreases by almost half, but 500 in both 23 and 24. And in 2025, this past year, back up to 911 cards over 100,000. And if you do the math, that's about 2.5 card sales of $100,000 cards on average each day. Right. Wow. So and then let's bring it down one more level. Now we're getting closer to where we're kind of, you know, aspiring to be over $10,000 cards. In 2019, almost 2000 cards were sold for over 10,000 bucks. Then you get to the peak of COVID 2022 21,649 cards sold for over $10,000. Then it drops by half almost to 12,000, just under just under 13,000, both in 2023 and 2024. And then 2025. It actually exceeds the COVID high of 2022. It's up to 24,994 cards that sold for over 10,000 bucks. Wow. And you know what, that's the I would say, you know, the trend follows all price points. And that's, it's not just high end. But could it be that the high end is moving that market in the same trend where, you know, people might not be able to play, like you said, in the million dollar game, people might not even be able to play in the $100,000 game, but they see the same patterns as that. And they're saying, you know what, I learned my lesson. I'm gonna invest in this, this is outperformed all my other assets. I'm in on whatever card and to me, when you have the whole, I guess marketplace thinking that way, this is when you start and we've seen it we've seen way overvalued inflated prices of many, many cards. And to be honest, I think it's still inflated. Is it but that's the thing we said that with Otani. And that's the question. It's like, well, it wasn't really inflated. It was actually a discount in the bigger picture. So right now everything feels inflated. Because I think are we're just on just the bullish run because the marketplace is just growing true value. I don't think it's there unless you're holding like really, really rare cards. And at that point, it's still, hey, when are you going to sell? Or is it a lifelong legacy asset where, you know, this is something that you truly believe in, even if you buy in high, you know, I don't mind buying in high if I'm going to keep it. Right, right. You know, I mean, and you just keep it for life, because you know, at one point, it would be a discount, right? So yeah, I mean, it's, it's very interesting, to say the least, to, I guess, witness it and also talk about it every week, because, you know, it always surprises us, you know, new highs, new low highs, you know, so I think that's what this the numbers are showing us even especially at the lower end that yes, there's a lot of speculators and investor types in the market flooding back in again, which is what's contributing to a lot of these higher end sales. But at the same time, the volume of sales at the over 10,000 market, I'm sure if you decrease it to 5000, you'll see a similar trend that speaks more to just more collectors in general coming into the hobby, experimenting. And I'm sure a lot of those people that are still in it have, like you said, learned their lesson in 2021 and 2022. So you have more savvy buyers in the hobby. And those are collectors that are more likely to stay in the hobby. So I think the base also has come up in terms of how many people are in the hobby. So I think it's growing. And that's a bullish sign for me, just like looking at these numbers. And just going back to the $10,000 card figure of 25,000, almost in 2025, that was sold. That's about almost 70 sales each day in 2025, that someone bought a $10,000 card or more. And the author does make another strong point that if someone argues that it's only a few select people buying these high end cards, if you look at the card ladder data, in December, there was 5.96 million transactions that took place. Wow. And that's just, is that just recorded transactions on eBay, not included private marketplace, in-person transactions? We don't know what's going on there, right? So that's on the bottom end. Exactly. Right. That's a conservative number through December. Yeah, exactly. And that's the most ever in a single month since the car ladder began tracking. So the trend is going up. And even if you look at graded cards, I know we went on a tangent off the top about grading, but a record of more than 26 million cards were graded in 2025. Wow. Crazy. Everything's going up. And I was also thinking about what else has happened in 2025. Fanatics Fest record numbers, 125,000 grew from 70,000 when we went the first year to 125,000 the second year. And they just announced the first lineup of 2026. And it's going to be bigger than ever. They added a day. So they're trying to get that momentum going for Fanatics Fest. Obviously, the number of card shows up everywhere. I've gone to more card shows this year than I did in the previous two years when it was down. And we kind of alluded to this earlier on. The hobby is more in mainstream culture now, right? Celebs talking about it. People that you never expect showing off their cards and collectibles. So all these things are just bullish signs where the hobby is at right now. I scroll sometimes when I'm bored on Facebook. And the number one comment I always hear, or at least I always see, is the hobby's ruined. What? After after everything you just listed? Yeah, the hobby is ruined for I'm sure, well, how that person wishes the hobby was, you know, or but has been quickly, let's let's dissect this because, like, I'm unsure why, like, especially it's more maybe catered towards tops, print runs, or it's like, people, oh, this is a good one, people rip. And they're so disappointed after paying $300 for a hobby box. And they're saying, this is the ROI. And the hobby is ruined. Because hobby boxes used to be 100 bucks. And I can't enjoy my hobby anymore. Yeah. So I mean, when the when the boxes were 100 bucks, guess what? The ROI was horrible, then too. Because you can't sell cards for what you're selling now. If the hobby boxes aren't worth 300, 400 bucks, 100%. It's everything's correlated, right? So and that's that was my point is, you know, that the simple answer is no, man, it's it's it's relative to the marketplace. Because if hobby if they didn't sell for 300 bucks, and they weren't sold out, then they know that, you know, their price may be high, but they're selling out. And then on top of it, secondary marketplace, the people who are buying these things, so right. And then why are they buying this? Maybe like perfect example, Cooper flag, tops, Chrome, people are ripping tops, Chrome. Oh, it's not worth it. What do you mean you hit a Cooper flag? What do those go for? That's why people are ripping. So it's supply demand again. So to me, and this, this is what always gets me to I guarantee you anybody who hits, let's just say they hit that super fractor of Cooper Fred flag, and they sold it for whatever 150k or whatever. I am pretty sure that they aren't going to be complaining at how bad the hobby is. Right? No, for sure. Just my right. And but that's, that's the thing. That's what we're paying for now, the chase, right? And there's nuances to it, too. I don't want people to get upset and saying like, Oh, you guys don't know what you're talking about. But honestly, the chase, the thrill of the chase, guess what, that's a form of entertainment that we're paying into. Right? So as long as you expect that, like I go into every box I rip, knowing that it's going to be horrible ROI, knowing from experience, I'm not going to make my money back. But it's it's fun to do with friends. And the chase is the thrill of it, right? And on occasion you hit an occasion you hit and that's awesome. Great, great feeling. Yeah. And you know, like, we always say to you know, if you hit, guess what, you should probably sell right away. Things are gonna go down to and we always we always want to there's this is what I mean by nuance. Do we recommend you buying a Cooper flag? The day of release on eBay? Probably not probably you should wait because usually the tendency is that these prices go down over time, right? So you got to know the market, you got to know how to play in the game. But right. And I'm telling you, people don't. This is underrated to have rip in. I'm telling you, I'm pulling cards still from 2022 2021. Yeah, even 2020. I ripped a ton during those years. And you know what, if I'm only looking at it at today, you never know. You know, I've pulled cards that weren't even sleeve. They're literally in like box common boxes where, you know, if somebody didn't go through it, that's when you know, you know, people find it at Salvation Army or something. It's something stupid like that, where you find like a card, it's like, what is that doing there? I'm telling you, it's a real thing. And, you know, it's not all bad. It's not saying your ROI at that moment is zero. Right? Exactly. No, what happens if, you know, two years down the road, Cal Raleigh, all of a sudden become somebody and his prices are bonkers. Like, hey, you got to know that you have that card. And you got to be smart enough to submit that and then cash out when you can. And you know what that $300 hobby box you bought? Well, guess what? You're you've made your money back after two years, not knowing that you're making your money back. And I think that's so underrated. Nobody talks about it. Because we all talk about the the misses of we all know, right? Right then and there, the odds of you pulling out a 25 card, reassess why you're ripping, because it's not normal to expect that all the time. Yeah, exactly. I mean, if it was normal, the hobby would tank. Let's just say that, right? It wouldn't make sense. The hobby is ruined. Then the hobby would be ruined. There's the perfect full circle to this rant. A lot of rants today, but I love it. 2026, I think it's gonna be a great year for just talking about the hobby too. So yeah, let's go on to our next segment. It is quiz show. All right, we haven't done this in a while, but I always think it's fun when I come up with some simple quiz questions that the answer sometimes can surprise you. But here we go, first one. This one's easy, I think. But PSA just released their top five most counterfeit cards. Four of them are Pokemon cards, so we'll leave them alone. I'll ask Roy about them when he's back on the show. But one of them is a sports card. Which card is that? Fakes? Yeah, most counterfeit cards, yes. Most fake cards. This past week, it was the Luka Black on photo, because that thing's going viral, and so many people are arguing, it's not real, it's fake. It's gotta be fake though, right? Yeah, it gotta be fake, but I would say, I would have to say, man, counterfeit. I wouldn't say, is it modern, or is it more vintage? I'll give you a big clue, it's in the 80s. Okay, so that's what I thought. I was gonna say Gretzky. That's, his rookie's 70s, but. 78, 79, so that's not one. Because it's funny, because that OPG, like my friend gave me three cards, and I showed you them, and I'm like, these are fake, and one of them are Gretzky. So that's why I said Gretzky. Okay, MJ. It's MJ, 1986 Fleur MJ. Still the number one most counterfeited card. Yeah, is the Star card getting counterfeited a lot? I could see that card getting counterfeited, because. Nowadays, sure, yeah. I don't see it on the list, but I wouldn't be surprised if I did. This thing looks like a cereal box card. Right, yeah. So anyway, you got a 1986 Fleur MJ, number one most counterfeit card, still. All right, guess what? We're getting new trading cards of Harry Potter, right? Which company got the license for it, just to celebrate, in time, for the 25th anniversary of Sorcerer's Stone, which kind of makes me feel old, because it's been 25 years since that came out. Which company got the license for it, the Harry Potter cards that are coming out? Oh, interesting. So are you saying it's not Fanatics, or are you saying it's Fanatics? What do you think? This is the quiz show. Who else is in play? So your guess is Fanatics, Tops? Leaf? Leaf? Yeah, no, it has to be Fanatics. I mean, Harry Potter's a pretty big brand. I wouldn't think it was Panini. It has to be Fanatics. That would be incorrect. I got you on this one. I would have guessed Fanatics as well, but it isn't Panini. They're a sinking ship, apparently, so. Oh, interesting. It's the other one. It's the one that's known for their hockey cards. OPG? No. Upper Deck? Upper Deck, yeah. OPG, they need to bring back OPG. OPG, they need to come back. They somehow just threw all their money into the Harry Potter license. Upper Deck. Upper Deck, really? Upper Deck. I know, I was surprised, actually. Is there a Upper Deck Chrome coming out? I don't know if they could call it Chrome, but yeah, they should have some kind of, I think John's been on this too, right? Like some kind of shiny card. True story, true story. Anybody who was collecting in the 80s and 90s, they know if you transition from 1988 to 1989, you know that that hologram on Upper Deck was the biggest thing, the biggest flex. It was the high-level card, okay, in 89, right? And they're the most expensive compared to Donruss, Topps, OPG, all that. What happened? They dropped the ball, they dropped the ball. Upper Deck used to have the best high-level branding, and I think, hey, maybe Harry Potter is kind of that uplift. Maybe upgraded stock to Chrome. I think this is their chance. I hope they get it right. I don't know what it's gonna look like, but I think they could really, if they do it well, things could change for Upper Deck. Are you buying? Are you a Harry Potter fan? Not really, but I also bought Le Boo Boo cards, so if it looks nice, and if I think it's got a potential to be an investment, I'll buy a box. Follow up with the Le Boo Boo, because we're asking, were they good investments or no? No, it's been tanking, but it seems like Le Boo Boo in general is a fad, which I think a lot of people could have said. But that's a good point. So we look at the cultural things, which you look at Disney, Star Wars, Marvel, there's a fan base, Pokemon. Yeah, Harry Potter, definitely a bigger fan base, yes. Yeah, and then trend. Is Harry Potter a trend? Probably not, right? Compared to Le Boo Boo, very trendy, very, very trendy. So that's a good learning lesson for our listeners, for us. It's true, it's true. You know what I mean? If you're into pop culture, or even, I guess, culture in general, I think there is opportunity. So even Upper Deck, it'd be great if it's Chrome, but I think there might be opportunity with Harry Potter, because Harry Potter's not just the fad. I agree, that's a great point, and we'll see what it looks like when they come out. I'm excited to actually see it. All right, question number three. We talked about Kevin O'Leary before. I don't know if you saw, it popped up on my screen, actually, when he and Shine 150 went live. They were having dinner, I think, somewhere in Florida. I might be mistaken, but they were having dinner, and guess what he had at the table? The $13 million basketball card that he was showing off. It was just casually sitting at the dinner table that they were eating at, and on that stream, he mentioned he spent, give or take, this amount of money on cards in the last several months. What figure did he say? He spent? Yeah. He says, oh, give or take, blank. In what time period? Over the last several months. Several months. Kevin O'Leary, well, not including that 13 million? No, including it. Including it. Yeah. Someone, I'm telling you, man, here's one thing, what I've noticed about Kevin O'Leary. He is a big watch collector, obviously. Loves his watch. This guy wears two watches at once, which is insane. Guys, only Kevin O'Leary could do something like that, but these guys really believe in this side of things, in terms of why watches are such an asset as opposed to just a purchase. And these guys are such business people. If you talk about strict, strict business, that's Kevin O'Leary. But then on the artistic side, he's really big on stuff like that, so I'm thinking he's opening up his wallet here. So I would say, if he's spent 13 million, he's at 25 to 30 million that he's spent in the last six months. That's a lot of money, but he said, the answer is he spent, give or take, $100 million in the last several months. Wow, that is crazy. It might be hyperbole, but I wouldn't bet against it either. Why wouldn't he? If you think about it, if he thinks, let's just say, he'll 10X. And he's holding for the long term, he's already said that. Well, that's why he would purchase it, because he believes that that 100 million could be a billion dollars in sports cards one day. And I don't think he's wrong, because there is no limit, right? Because we don't know where the marketplace is, and like I said, if you're into APs, Rolexes, that's the same game. But I guarantee you, it's a lot easier to sell the card than the watch. Yes, I would agree with that. You know what I mean? So it's a good asset. It's crazy, hey? How Kevin O'Leary got into it, he shared the story where, it was because of Michael Rubin, who was a guest host on Shark Tank. And then he told Kevin O'Leary, he's like, hey, do you know what's going on with collectibles with cards? And then Kevin O'Leary thought Michael Rubin was crazy, until he started doing his research, and then he became all in. So that's where we're at now. Crazy, and it goes back to the point I was making. I'm telling you, Marty Supreme was a really good movie. Kevin O'Leary was really good in that. He was a main character that really did a good job. And he's out here advertising, spending $100 million. What do you think that tells people, that remotely question, saying, hey, do you think this market is viable? They see someone like Kevin O'Leary drop $100 million. I could see someone dropping, let's just say, 50, 100K of investment money. Let's just say they were hesitant. But I could see them pulling the trigger just because of Kevin O'Leary. And those are the things that, we don't realize how much that moves our market, because if you have someone like him, that's around, that's getting hundreds of millions of views worldwide, per month, and this guy is spending $100 million on a sports car, that's insane. It's gonna move the needle. Absolutely, yeah. Another reason why we're bullish. This is the bullish episode of The Hobby, and I hope you guys are here for the ride, because we will be. All right, last question for the quiz show. Gemrate.com recently released the top 50 graded athletes of all time. Three in the top 10 that are active. So, who are those three? So we got, Ohtani has to be up there, right? Active, Victor Wiminyama. You got it, Victor Wiminyama is? Number two? Where is he? No, number two is Ohtani, number one's MJ. Oh, okay, okay. Victor Wiminyama is number six on the list right now. But that's a second active. And that's a second active, yes. Second active athlete in the top 10. Wow. Sorry, third active, I'm missing these. Third active, there's one person that's higher. It has to be, oh man, is it LeBron James? It's LeBron James, you got it. Number four on the top 10. So in the top 10, if I'm gonna give it to you, is MJ, number one. Ohtani, number two now. Number three is Ken Griffey Jr. Number four is LeBron. Number five is Kobe. Six is Victor Wiminyama, like we just said. And rounding out the top 10, seven, Mickey Mantle, Derek Jeter, Tom Brady. Number 10, it's kind of surprising, Nolan Ryan. Oh, interesting, Nolan Ryan. 585,000 of his carts have been graded to date. We might see Cooper Flagg in the top 10 this year. The way things are going. Yeah, and that's a good point, because it also depends on how many are printed, how many people are in the hobby, how many people are willing to send it in for grading. So you know what I mean? It's different times. That's how Victor Wiminyama's on it, to be frank. All right, that's another edition of Quiz Show. Hope you guys enjoyed it. We'll finish off with our regular weekly segment. We're continuing on into 2026. It's called Pick One. So as always, Hyung, do you have one to start off with this new year? I do, yep. Let's go, I'm going value. I'm going for value. And I'm talking about the best shortstop today. Who is that in today's game? The number, who I think is number, yes, yes, sir. Bobby Witt Jr. Telling you, man, so underrated. So underrated. I'm all in on Bobby Witt Jr. I just love the player he is. And I think based on the marketplace prices, now there's some stuff that are expensive, some stuff that are cheap. This, I would say, it's still in the overpriced territory in general for Bobby Witt, but I think there are great buys. This one, I wanted to see, compare on a high-end Bobby Witt Jr. And I'm going to start with a 2020 Bowman, first chrome, purple refractor. And I know you don't like purple refractors, so number 250, PSA 10, okay? This was sold December 1st for $3,700, okay? Was that autograph? Autograph, yeah, it's first Bowman, PSA 10. So you know what? Really good card. Price point, I would say, it's almost even with the refractor. And this was a month ago, because refractors tend to sell a little higher than purple, I'd say, which is weird, even though that it's doubled the print run, or at least similar. So I'm pairing that up. So I know you're a big first Bowman chrome. guy to a raw version of a 2022 tops dynasty game use rookie patch auto at a 10 raw. Yeah, sold for four grand. This was in November. So offseason regardless, I want to see. So it's 4000. So 3700 for first Bowman PSA 10, purple auto versus a raw 2022 tops dynasty game use rookie patch auto out of 10. And just just to point it out, we always said dynasty was underrated. And this card was probably half that price a year ago. Well, I remember us talking about it when you when you wanted the Julio. The dynasties were floating around the 2000s out of 10. So we seen a little bump in the price of dynasty in general, I think. I think a lot of you know, yeah, people are catching on. But what do you do you think to see for me? Is everyone with the dynasty? 100% going with the dynasty? Really? I think I think people are catching on true. But I don't think enough people have caught on still. And we're just talking about all these higher end collectors coming into the market. I just think it's a matter of time till they realize to that. What? Why are people like these are undervalued still tops dynasty, you get a nice patch on card auto, right? It's in case so it's in you know, whatever shape is in is can't be that bad. And, and I'm always looking at tops dynasty still, even though the price and I feel like 2026, it's got to be on my list. My hobby resolution list, I need to get one, at least one nice tops dynasty, rookie patch auto, that's kind of my goal. And at 4k for Bobby, what you know, I'm with you, I think he's still an undervalued player. And I think he could take another step this year. And so I'm all over that. And you know, you if you gave me any other color refractor than purple, maybe that way. It was just a regular factor, maybe. No, but tops dynasty, I think. Yeah, for all those reasons. That's no brainer for me. Do you think the first Bowman chrome is losing its power? I think a little bit because of the MLB debut patch, you know, I mean, right? Like, I know Bobby would doesn't have one obviously, because it's 2022. But oh, man, can you imagine if MLB debut patch came a year earlier? And the body went out one 100% that would be the card. But then that'll be the card. Yeah. The first chrome super fractor, I think for Bobby would be his ultimate, ultimate card, or a one of one dynasty rookie patch auto and that before it wouldn't even be a question. But the fact that we're even comparing it now is crazy because about two years ago, three years ago, this was not the case. And in I'll make mine easy to I I like the liquidity of that. You know what price you're getting? But I think that price point is overvalued compared to the dynasty card, if that makes sense. Like $4,000 in the dynasty card compared to $4,000 in a purple Bowman, Bowman chrome PSA 10. I think that's the purple is valued, right? I think that's where the price should be. Whereas I still think the dynasty is cheap. Me too. You know, I mean, too, man. Yeah, so this is the perfect example of, you know, you could think of an athlete is like, overinflated or priced right or under inflated, but it's all dependent on their cards. It's all different. You know, I'd say Bobby's market in general is really low for what type of player he is and the potential he has and the impact he's leaving, and his presence on social media, all that included, I think his dynasty is super, like underrated. And, but his first chrome, I still think has potential. I don't think it's, it's necessary. But I just don't think you're, there's that room for growth as you know, the the dynasty. So it's a good point to make, I think dynasty and you think dynasty john thinks dynasty is all underrated. And I think that's a great kind of like, set to look at in any player when you're looking at, you know, the rookie if you're looking for a rookie auto. Yep. I like it. I mean, there are a few exceptions where that's not the case. Obviously, Otani and one Soto even their topside is the RP is insane. But yeah, there are so a lot of good place to be had, you know, in tops dynasty, I agree with you. Good one. All right, I'll end up with you said value. This is my pick ones really value. Okay. And I'm gonna, it's kind of current in the news as well, which is why I chose it. And it's got a personal connection to me because earlier listeners of the pod when we did season one, back six years ago, hard to believe. We'll know that was really big on a basketball player named Trey. And I'm glad I sold him three, four years ago, when I lost about 30%. Now, if I sold it now, I would have lost 80% of the values. But if you didn't hear he got traded to the Washington Wizards the other day. So maybe they'll do something to his car value. Maybe they'll do something to his career. We don't know. But that's why I'm bringing it up. His red prism PSA 10, his rookie card, nice color match. You know how I like color 199. Just over 200 bucks. You're pretty close PSA. Oh, I was saying I was saying out of 199 out of 299 is 199. Holy crap. Let's round it up to 200 bucks. Okay. And I was looking at a 400. I'm like, should I just buy a 400? You know, it's like, I was willing to box. I almost bought it for 1000 few years ago. You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway, it's just over 200 bucks. Now PSA 10 is red prism. Or would you buy and I'm trying to make a point here. Caitlin Clark. Great panini draft pick. So she's in their Iowa College. Jersey. Red ice non numbered. PSA 10 also go for about 200 bucks. You know my answer already. I do. You already know my answer. Well, I'm making a point. I don't know if everyone will agree with your answer. I know. I know. I can't even justify the other side. Really? People can. Okay, so people can. People that don't know you. Well, who are you choosing? I'm choosing Trey Young. I think that's a steal. Like I love that car. It's a red prism. But on top of that, it's just, for me, it's like, like I said, it's more how many people are in basketball versus women basketball. Right for me. And I get it. It's like, if, if you're, if you're, and that's the problem. It's, it's the same thing with Pokemon. It's like, I like if you're gonna say, would you rather have a Pokemon card or a baseball card? Most likely for 200 bucks, or doesn't matter the amount if I'm spending that amount, it's most likely going to be. That's my justification. And I know it's not the same for everybody, because people are looking for value over what type of card. And in this case, I think Trey Young is still underrated. And at that price, especially he's underrated. Like, there's no doubt $200 for a red prism. It's not like red ice. It's not a wave or weird. I don't know. Prism didn't have any or Yeah, yeah, like, it's like not like first off the line. It's red prism, straight up red prism PSA 10. And that's a really good looking card that year 2018. I'm telling you. colored parallels 2018 I think look phenomenal. And I think with the color jersey, or it was color match to write with with Atlanta black. Yeah, such a good looking card. So I'm gonna go Trey Young, for sure. 100%. I knew you were gonna go for Trey. I'm also going for Trey Young, but I'm just making the point. I feel like the hate has gone way too far for Trey Young, at this point, for his red prism PSA tend to be around 200 bucks. That's a good point. If I'm gonna play devil's advocate, though, you know, I just in the quiz show segment, I mentioned the top 50 most graded cards. Trey Young's not in the top 50. But guess who is? Caitlin Clark at number 34. Wow. So I mean, this is why I mean, I could see people choosing Caitlin Clark, right? They think she's just more significant, cultural impact player. I have a question. Is it because when they buy the card, is their process and this is all people who hold Caitlin Clark. It's because you think in the future, that this card is going to be worth a lot. Is that the main drive? Like, what is it? Or it's like, I love the player, Caitlin Clark, period. And I'm just a huge fan. Like, I'm trying to comprehend what drives the market, because I still have yet to watch. What's that? That's a good question. I mean, it could be both for the people that do buy it. They're big fans of Caitlin Clark. And they do think that the card has potential to go up. I mean, I could see the point being made that Caitlin Clark is arguably generational, be the generational best talent in the WNBA. And that's therefore, that's the significance you'll have in the history of WNBA. So for 200 bucks, I'll take that gamble. But you know, when you see things in comparison, a Trey Young, an actual NBA all star, right? He's been on the all star team. And I know he gets a lot of hate. But he's still a he had the most assists per game last season. You know, I mean, he's still producing. I guess my whole point was, I extrapolate data based on history, because that's how you get data. For us, we don't have data, there's no history, there's no marketplace that existed before. Under so what, to me, when I look at a Hank Aaron, when I look at Mickey Mantle, when I look at all these cards, there's fundamentals, because there's data that shows that history kind of has the proof in the pudding. And to me, that's the speculation that I guess I have a tough time, kind of understanding, and not saying that it's right or wrong. It's everybody collect, like, like I said, I wouldn't collect Pokemon for that reason. I still don't understand the market drivers. Right. So to me, it's not something that I personally it's not saying that it's right or wrong. It's just I that's why I stick to baseball. It's like I watch baseball. I'm a collector of baseball because I like, you know, ripping baseball like, you know what I mean? It's just baseball. So I'm just trying to understand. And I'm still trying to maybe it's a talk with Roy, I'm still trying to understand the Pokemon thing. And I'm trying to digest it all. So I'm learning. I love it. And like I said, last year, in last season five, we need an episode where it's you and Roy talking about Pokemon cards. Yes, I have a lot of questions that needs to happen. Well, we'll make that happen for season six. I'm all about a lot more creative episodes for season six, which actually I got some good feedback from the one that with my non collector friend, because he asked a lot of good questions, too. And he, he, for someone that's not in the game anymore, like he used to collect Pokemon, he said, but he has a serious gripe against PSA. He left that interview just being mad at PSA. So I thought that was pretty funny. But yes, the Pokemon episode with Roy, and young will be will be coming. Okay, we'll make it happen. All right, another great episode. We appreciate you guys as always. And if you have any ideas for what kind of episodes we should be doing for this season, season six, please DM us at cards to the moon or at five card guys. I'll check the DMS there as well. Alright, have a new episode for you guys next week. Talk to you then. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening to cards to the moon. We'd really appreciate you subscribing to our podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts. And you can also connect with each of us on Instagram at five card guys. Or you can follow young at integrity sports cards, or john at trade you at recess. You can also check us out at five card guys.com. Thanks again, and hope to connect soon.