Smash Stash Or Pass....Rating The Hobby

Hello, hello, hello. This is season five and episode seven of the Ball Card Show, the sports podcast. Or the sports collector. I'm Jason Otero. I'm Gary LeMaster. And we're in kind of a, we've got a little bit of a, I don't know how to describe it. We're just kind of in a weird mood here. It's been a, it's been just one of those mornings where- Let me back, let me, let me cut you off and back it up a little bit. Okay. I'm going to let you finish. I'm going to let you finish. I appreciate it. But Beyonce had the greatest music video of all time. That's like three words into a sentence there. Really nice work. All right. So first off, if I sound like I'm really sick, it's because I've had the worst head cold I've had. Like full blown man flu for the whole week now. Every time you've talked to me on the phone, I've been like, are you alive? Are you good? I'm feeling better, but I don't sound that much better. Rocking two cough drops right now. If one goes flying, it just is what it is. But you were talking about- Where were we at? So the studio is about to get a major upgrade. Gary is moving into a new place. He's got a big area where we're going to finish out studio. And this knucklehead's like, you know what we need is a legit studio. And I was like, this is a good idea, right? Let's upgrade this. And he's like, you know what I was thinking is like the chairs that like, you know, most people do, like podcast, you got two shots. It's like a comfortable setting. It's conversational. Except the only problem is if there's chairs- You reminded me that we're both Jabba the Hutt. And they like lean back even a little bit. Yeah. It's like Jabba the Hutt and Jabba the Hutt talking ball cards. Nobody needs to see that. So we're going to make sure that we, you know, I said, we're more of like what I said, we're more like the truck and shack. News anchors. We need tables. We need a desk. You can't just sit us in an easy chair. It's not going to look good. Oh, well, maybe. I mean, you guys let us know. You want to see us just let it all hang out or you want to keep us behind a desk? Nobody wants to see that. The women that love us more than we deserve don't want to see that. That's fair. A hundred percent. Oh, well. New studio stuff coming. There's a lot, a lot of new stuff coming. Yes. I'm going to kick it off right away with a huge thing coming up. If you've been anywhere around our socials, you've seen it. But our very first what not show, April the 24th, 7 p.m. Eastern time. Eastern US coasters. Better get it right. Leave work early. 4 p.m. is when it starts. West coasters. Any other time zones? No, I just want to make sure they knew what time zone we were in. I appreciate that. It was important. It's important information. Very important information. Our viewers and listeners are not just in the Eastern time zone. Yep. We are doing giveaways all night. Now I'll let Gary go into a little further detail, but depending on how we launch this thing, followers, bookmarks and all that, we could get into some really nice giveaways that aren't typically given away on a first show. Right. So tell them what we're thinking. You guys help us and we will help you. It's that simple. Right now the giveaway list is going to be some slabs, some singles and some sealed wax. We want to make that stuff upgraded. We want to take it from retail sealed wax to hobby sealed wax. In order for us to do that, we need your help. So the goal is this. By April the 23rd, the day before our first show, if we have a thousand followers and a thousand bookmarks for the show- Bookmarks too. On Whatnot- Wow. Yeah. If we have that, we're going to give away two hobby boxes as buyers giveaways in the first stream. We don't know exactly what those are going to be yet, but if we hit those goals, they're not going to be trash. They're going to be nice. Licensed hobby. Yeah. Licensed hobby products. So you help us, we'll help you. You're going to continue to see this push, this marketing push on Instagram, on Facebook, on TikTok. If it annoys you, sorry. We're still going to keep doing it. I don't think it's annoying people watching the podcast. No. It's more of our family and friends that have seen many business ventures over the years from both of us that are like, oh, here we go again. But we really want to get this Whatnot stream kicked off right and build this part of this business the right way. So with your help, which we really appreciate, the first week of kind of pushing this, we've already seen a good bit of traction there. So just keep it up, share this video, share the posts you see on our socials and help us get there because it just helps you guys too. And if we don't hit that number and you are a follower and you have bookmarked the show and you join us, we are going to be doing giveaways through the show. Whole stream. It's going to be a part of how we do all the shows. We want to be enjoyable. We want there to be value there. We've already got thousands of cards ready to roll. It's going to be a massive stockpile of really fun stuff. Sudden death auctions. So if you don't know what that means, let's back this up. A lot of the people that watch our stuff that do sports cards, let's just say they're older. Which is fine. We don't have a younger collector base. You know how to use YouTube and you're scared of TikTok. You don't even know what Whatnot is. You keep waiting for us to explain what Whatnot is. Whatnot is what it's called. But essentially, you're going to go to an app, live auctions. We do a sudden death format, which means there's a limited amount of time. What would we be at? 10, 15 seconds? It's either going to be 10 or 20 seconds, depending on what the card is. If we decide to run some bigger stuff at the end of the night, it might go 30 seconds. But you'll have that timeframe and you're bidding against everybody else hanging out in the room. We will both be at the shows. We love to talk with you about the podcast, anything else that you want to rant rave about. But it's a way to hang out with us, add to your collection, get in some auctions, buy some cool stuff, probably find some good deals. And yeah, we'll be rolling out on the 24th. And that's follow that at the Ball Card Show on Whatnot. And we'll make sure that there's a link in the description for this video, just right down there. Yep. Check it out. This is all part of that path towards opening a brick and mortar. Still the goal. Still we're working towards. We want to build out this piece of the community too. And as we get more and more into it and break down the math of running an LCS, you'll understand why. Why this is an essential piece of that going forward. But let's jump into some hobby news. Enough self-promotion. That was six minutes of that. You know? Yeah. Solid work though. That's all right. But you're here to watch us. You want to see me. You want to see Gary. I don't know that either one of those is true. I think we probably just listening. You better get into this information. Even in YouTube, I think they just listen. They don't want to see us. Let's talk about another great release by Panini, Encore. My God. It's bad. I would rather buy Score. I would legitimately rather buy Score. What is this product supposed to be? So let's start out. There are licensed products that are designed to be lower entry point, affordable. What do you think they were going for? No, that's not what I'm talking about. That's what I think they were going for. What comparable product? That's what I'm trying to say. We already know how you feel about it. There isn't a comparable product. It's a brand new thing that is supposed to be a throwback to like the old Pacific and Pinnacle products. Because Panini bought all those old nameplates years ago. And you've seen it in like Chronicles and things like that. Like the Dynagon and some of that stuff. Yeah. This is like Chronicles, but worse. And now I will say that it's cheap, but it's still triple what it should be. It's $120 or $130 hobby box, but to give you an idea on release day, a Marvin Harrison Jr. gold to 10 sold for like $58. That's bad. What's a hobby box going for? $120, $130. That's what I'm saying. It's bad. If it's around $50 or $60, then you're like, hey, fun rip. Go knock yourself out. Well, yeah. If this was... Here's a comparable product. Is it Big League? Yes. That's what I was just getting ready to say. It's literally a comparable product that tops Big League. And Big League's a $50 hobby box. They make this a $50 hobby box? Cool. Won't hear a complaint from anybody. Maybe even $60 to $70 because, again, Blasters are now $30. Megas are costing you $50, $60, $70 on a lot of stuff. So a retail thing that's just a little bit over a mega, I think, would make sense. Yeah. That's fair. I just think that at the end of the day, it is a product that doesn't need to exist, and it most certainly does not need to exist at the price point that it is at. So what we're going to see on breaks is this getting thrown into a lot of mixers. Or they're going to rip a case of it at $200 a box, which is brutal. Brutal. Yeah. Brutal. Well, we're still complaining going on to the next topic. Speaking of $200 a box, now, decent amount of excitement around this product. I've always enjoyed this product. The reason that I like it, it's twofold. We're talking about Tops Heritage. This is the high number series that was released last week, right? Yes. Heavy vintage card stock. I love the feel, the aesthetic. Now, I'm somebody that doesn't like to read digital books. I want a real book. I want to turn the pages. I want to smell the mold in there. You know what I mean? You know how a book smells like you didn't sniff it a lot of times? You have a lot of moldy books? No, I don't read them. But I like to have them. I want the actual paper. It's the same way with the cards. I like that heavy card stock. I love the heritage as a throwback, so this here is a throwback to 75. But I also love those real one autographs, the red ink, the number to 75. There's some massive names in there. There's some huge hall of famers that always sign in the product, but we have a juicier rookie class. And so anybody that kind of came through there that was a big deal, they got a rookie card in there. Fanatics knows this. For a decade, this has been a product, $8,200. You're getting a hobby box, maybe $110. Yeah. And now these are dropping and most people are paying about $200 for a hobby box of these. Yeah, it's about doubled. Now, each box guarantees a relic or an autograph, and that relic can be a $3 to $5 patch. That relic, 90% of the time, is going to be a $3 to $5 patch. And that box, 90% of the time, is going to be a relic with a $3 to $5 patch in it. On average, I think there's two, maybe three autos per case, and it's a 12-box case. So you've got about a 25% chance to hit an auto, and yeah, that's why the price point this year doesn't make sense. But more importantly, I think, and this is something that- There's a bigger conversation. Yeah, that you brought up when we were talking about the episode. One of the things that Fanatics has done is they have, for the most part, cut out the middleman. They are the manufacturer and the distributor, which in a vacuum is fine, but things like this become an issue. So they really chopped back the wholesale allocations of this product this year. A couple of LCSs that I know the owners of, we're talking 25-30% of what they've been able to get in the past. And it's a product that Fanatic knows will sell really quickly, and then when they go to reorder a week later, they're reordering it at basically what retail has been. It's just a money grab by Fanatics, I think. I think they're making it harder for the LCS, they're making it more profitable for themselves. If they're selling a box to the LCS for, let's say it averages out to $150 a box, you get your initial allocation of that, maybe you do two cases. This isn't a product people buy super heavy, typically. I mean, you have breakers that like to add these in with mixers and do huge case breaks, and then they basically raise their price point. But tons of your customers will come in and buy one. Yes. You have customers buy one because it's affordable, it's a hobby, it's licensed, you have relevant rookies in it, and there's a chance of some bigger ones. The other thing we didn't highlight with Heritage is there are a ton of variations and subsets, and some of those can fetch a lot of money, especially early on. If you like to rip and then list anything you're not keeping right away- They're great eBay cards to sell. There's variations, there's white border, there's tons of stuff in there, which for set builders or subset builders, it's a great product. But what happens is they're selling this to the LCS at 150, they buy their two cases, they market up to 200 or whatever makes sense for them to make money by the time they've purchased everything and cost of doing business. Then when they need more of these, if they need more of these later, FinEx says, yeah, no problem, it's $200 a box now. They didn't, if somebody wanted five or 10 cases on the front end, they're having a hard time getting that amount, they'll say, no, we'll throw you a couple cases now. When you come back a month or two later and ask for more, yeah, now the price is this, and there's no margin left on it. Because what are the odds- We're not even talking a month or two later, sometimes it's a week later. Yeah, what are the odds that this product's going to drive, demand is going to drive that much higher? It's not. It's not. And so this is like an example of what is happening to the LCS. Fanatics is doing awesome things for the end user. I can't disagree with that statement that I just made. Fanatics is doing incredible things for a better experience, a more immersive experience for collectors, the access to players, just all the different things that they're doing. However, when it comes to the relationship with the LCS, it sure feels like they're just squeezing their margins tighter and tighter and tighter. Now there's a level of this that is good to have some checks and balances, but my concern is really good, healthy, viable local card shops are going to move more to singles and emphasize wax less. This could eventually backfire, especially on products like this. Do these lower end products end up getting drilled and they're just not being purchased as much because the LCS is like, oh, I've seen this movie. You already got me overpaying on the front end and not giving me as much as I need, and now you're going to try to get it on the other side of this. I don't know. Well, I think that that conversation leads into the next thing that we wanted to talk about. One of the reasons I think that what you're saying is true, but I also don't think Fanatics cares, is one of the interesting things that happened within our industry over the last year is that a large national chain that has never really been involved in the trading card world, outside of game stuff like Pokemon and Magic and stuff, jumped on board. full, full bore into the sports card world while still maintaining their TCG market. That's GameStop. Now, if you're our age, you remember GameStop, and before that it was EB Games. It was a place you went and bought video games, and then you went and traded your old ones in for pennies on the dollar to overpay for new games. If you're younger, you may remember GameStop as the meme stock from a few years ago, where a bunch of guys decided to kill a big Wall Street short sale. They released their quarterly profits and their numbers. Their trading card business tripled over the last quarter. It now is their main money maker in their stores. Fanatics already sees that. GameStop has a partnership with PSA directly. They're a direct submission center for PSA now. If you want to sub cards and you don't have a membership and you don't feel comfortable doing it, and you're okay with giving it to the kid behind the counter at GameStop to sub for you, they'll do it. They've launched a whole thing where they're buying PSA slabs. They've got a store online. The pricing is a little crazy, but it must not be as crazy as I think it is because they're the crap out of this stuff. I think there is a better than coin flip chance that GameStop ends up being somehow branded a Fanatics location for cards within the next year. That's going to have a pretty major impact on LCSs as well. Now, to your point, it may drive LCSs more to singles because GameStop just isn't going to be ... They're a SKU based system. There's no way they're going to be able to have singles, value boxes, and that type of stuff in their stores. However, it's not a small blip on the radar within the hobby. It's a pretty big deal. No. The question is, would they be able, or how long would it take for them to have the recognition of, this is the place where you buy nice hobby stuff? It's one thing to see they move a lot of TCG booster boxes at $150 to $200, whatever. Can they move National Treasures? Can they move ... I think that's going to be, I'm not asking, I'm just saying that's going to kind of be what they would have to figure out. I don't think they move National Treasures, but I think they move Topps Chrome. I think they move $300 and less products. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Products. I don't think they move $5,000 products. But heavy direct allocations would imply not just ... Maybe they just target that, but I don't see that. I don't see that putting a massive dent in the LCS yet. Here's where I think they're more dangerous, because I don't know anywhere else where this exists. You essentially have a pawn shop for Hobby Wax with GameStop. PWCC tried that a few years ago. It didn't go too well. This is very different. I know. This is very different. You take in your old Xbox and now you get $50 off of booster box, which I think ... This market that they're talking about, so the numbers on it, it was $271 million in Q4, which was up from $170 million in collectibles the previous. Now, this is collectibles, which can include other things, probably Funkos, some of that stuff. I think that's a very slim amount. I don't know the percentage breakup between TCG and sports cards. I think compared to most LCSs, it's going to be a lot heavier on the TCG format with this. But over time, that's going to change. And when you can take in five games that you just played, if you bought the disc, which is probably just people our age, or a console, and now you have a way to trade something in and get it at a different price point, well, that's a whole different conversation. And I think it's going to be a lot more appealing to younger collectors to know, I have stuff that I can go trade in that I'm done with, and get a better price on it. And they're going to get them both ways on this, because they're going to get that console for 30% and all that. But interesting to see the growth. When they announced this was happening, I was like, this is going to last a couple months. No way this works. And the whole database system, it's weird. You have to buy it off the website, right? If they have slabs, and they can even display slabs at the store, but you don't pull it off the counter and purchase it at the store. You have to buy it from the website. Which seems really weird to me. I don't know how they have, but it's smart because they're going to be able to market that nationwide, wherever it is. But yeah, GameStop is doing that. Not a small blip. No, not at all. All right, you want to play a game? Let's play a game. This should be fun. It's going to be fun, or it's going to be a disaster? Well, it's definitely going to get some engagement, I think. So there's a game we played growing up. I'm introducing this game for a reason, because you can't resist it yourself. How you would introduce this? F Mariana Live. Yeah, you did it. Yeah. Not everybody said the same words as you, but it was the same sentiment. Yeah, it was the same sentiment. I broke myself down. I used the proper terminology. I knew you wouldn't be able to not say that, though. No, because I want to make sure people know what game we're playing. Because I was going to use innuendo, and it would have gotten there, but there's that need to be just a little bit edgy, no matter what. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Absolutely. You feel better about it? I do. Yeah, that's good. I do. Amazing Spider-Man. Yeah. Do the things a spider can, or whatever that is. I don't know. I played sports. We won't say the song. Wow. Anyway, we're going to play the game. You used to have this when you were a kid, like middle school, high school. It was real popular. Marry one. You can be intimate with one, and you can unalive one, but you have to choose for all three of the names. So we're going to talk through products. We're going to talk through brands. We're going to talk through hobby influencers, and we're going to call this Smash, Stash, or Trash. Smash is a good thing. Like Taco Bell, when they released the fries, I smashed those, right? Yeah. Like when you're watching this right now, and you smash the like and subscribe, and you go smash the button for follow the whatnot, bookmark the show. Yeah, absolutely. A lot of things we smash. I mean, we can keep this list going for a while, or we can get into the game. Well, there's also another category. That's true. I want it to make sense, because what's going to happen is you're going to start saying, oh, what I meant to say was ... That's where we're going with this. Smash, love it. Immediately want it. Stash, I don't need it right now, but I probably wouldn't get rid of it. I can live with it. And Trash is, I have no use for it. That was the marry. I don't know that I want to marry this right now, but I can probably live with it. Well, that's why we're not using exact terms, and you made it more confusing by introducing it the way you did. Fair enough. Go ahead. But here we are. I'm going to let you start out first, because I don't want to waste any more time. All right. Because we're wasting valuable time. What's our first three? All right. Smash, Stash, or Trash. All right, so I grabbed a few products here. Mercury, which was the high-end Wimby product. Prism Monopoly, and then Sage. Smash, Stash, Trash. This seems more difficult than it is. We're going to smash Prism Monopoly, we're going to stash Sage, and we're going to trash Mercury. I actually had the exact same answers for you. Yeah. Let's walk through it. You go first with Smash. I'm going to smash Prism Monopoly because it's Prism. That's basically the only reason. Out of these three, it's the most likely to maintain some level of long-term value, and it usually looks good. My reason for doing Smash instead of Stash was that when the product drops, there's like a one-month window where cards in there can be kind of hot. You still have Color Blast in there. You still have some big Prism hits that you can pull out of that. It's a product that tends to, once enough people have opened it, really tank out. There's also cool parallels in that one. If I was buying this, I'd open it. Sage being a Stash, for me, was that's a product where you're probably not going to open anything that blows you away, but somebody in that class in five to seven years might pop off, and they might have an autograph in there. Patrick Mahomes Auto's rookie's in there. Jayden Daniel's rookie auto's are in there. A hobby box is going to cost you about $150, and it has 13 auto's. Now, 12 of them might be guys who never even got drafted, but still, for what it is, it's not horrible. It's a PC thing. It's one of the cheapest PC autographs you'll be able to buy. We agree on that. We would Stash Sage. We would Smash Prism Monopoly if we had to rip it or immediately, yeah, whatever. Trash Mercury. Trash Mercury, and the reason we've talked about this many times over, it's just way overpriced. Way overpriced. It really affected the scarcity of rookie auto's for one of the greater players that we've seen come up to the NBA in a while, and we're seeing people take massive losses on the product right now. Yeah. Even before his injury. It wasn't a good product. Yeah. So, it's trash. Mercury's trash. Pure trash. If you opened a lot of it, man, I'd hate to be you, Jeff. I would hate to experience that. That would be, phew, but it could be worse. I hate you for this next one. Yeah? I hate you for this. I hate the choices you've given me. That's why we did it. I'll go first. I'll let you read them off, and then you can ... Topps Chrome Baseball, Bowman Draft, and Topps Dynasty Baseball. I hate you for this. This is actually easy for me. Okay. Okay. I think we're probably not going to have the same answers here. It's easy for me because of what has changed in the last year, and it's actually given Fanatics props. So, Smash, for me, is going to be Topps Chrome Baseball. Yeah, we don't have the same list. It is ... The MLB debut patch is only an update. Will you please shut up? Will you please shut up? If that's your reasoning, it doesn't ... This isn't a debate. Okay. Go ahead. You're good. This is not a debate. This is Smash, Stash, or Trash. But are we smashing Topps Chrome Update or Topps Chrome? You can answer this however you'd like. Okay. Go ahead. This is not a debate. Do you want to start a debate channel? This is what I work with. That might be fun. Yeah, nobody's going to be on the show with you. That's not fun. Let me try this again. Topps Chrome. I don't care if you think update counts or not. When I answer it, it counts. Okay. Fair enough. Topps Chrome Baseball is a smash for me. The reason for that is the MLB debut patches. They can be a massive hit. Is the product a little bit higher than it should be? I don't know. That's so different now that we have these golden tickets basically lying in these packs. The earlier one before update, maybe not as much, but it's a product that I would probably open more quickly and have no ... It's not one that I would leave sitting away. Okay. Stash for me is an easy answer. It's Bowman Draft. Just to be clear, not Bowman Chrome. I just want to make sure we're on the same page. It's important. Not Bowman Retail. Yes, it's important. Bowman Draft. The reason for that is there are so many guys that can pop off. You're unable to sell them too early and lose. If one of them hits big, then the possibility of a big true low number first auto is going to really drive up the value of that box. This is a product that consistently people sit on those, and if it's the right year, they'll sell for a multiplier of several X's later on. Then the one that I would trash is Dynasty. The only reason for this is I have full confidence that Fanatics is going to keep releasing five to 10. Over the next 10 years, there'll be five to 10 products like Dynasty that drop that have filthy patches and are low numbered. It at one point was viewed as unique. Right now, they're probably the prettiest baseball product in my mind, but I don't see Fanatics not trying to replicate this 10 different ways between now and the next 10 years. That's why I would trash Dynasty. We agreed on one. Stash? Yeah. I would smash Dynasty. It's one of my favorite products of all time. The cards are amazing. You're going to have stuff that holds value really well. The only downside is it's a one card box. You're going to pay $1,000 for it, and you're just kind of hoping. I don't buy the boxes. I buy the singles, but it's one of my favorite products. Stash, Bowman Draft, all the same reasons. You would smash that, but you don't buy it? The boxes? I don't buy boxes of much of anything. Okay. I just mentioned that. I don't buy boxes of much of anything. If I was going to stash in a case of that, if you have a case of 2018 Dynasty, you're sitting pretty right now. Stash, Bowman Draft, for all the same reasons that you said, and then Trash, Topps Chrome. If it was Update? If this had said Update, it would have been a much more difficult conversation for me because of what you said. But I did say Update before you answered. Let's say it's Update. If it's Update ... Then you agree with me. It's close. Yeah. See, that's why he wanted to have a reason to disagree, because he doesn't like agreeing with me. That's not true. We agreed on the first one, but this just said Topps Chrome Baseball, and Update's a different product. But we agree on Stashing Draft. We agree on Stashing Draft. What do you think about what I said about Dynasty and Fanatics, what they seem to be releasing? I think that before Fanatics bought Topps, that there were still other products that they tried to put out that were like that. Topps Sterling is like that. So I don't know that anything's ever going to ... Dynasty collectors are their own world, and nothing's going to replace Dynasty in their minds. Those collectors will pay $500 for a ninth-year buster posy to 10 if the patch is nice. That's my reasoning there. I think that they're going to ... Wherever there's a tension, they're going to try new products a lot. They just seem to be interested in doing that. For sure. And we're starting to see filthy patches hit products where we haven't seen them as much before. I just hope they keep being game use. That's the other nice thing about Dynasty is it's always game used. By the way, I love Dynasty. Gorgeous product. Yeah. Just not as much as you like Topps Chrome? Update? No, I just have to choose. That's what it is. All right, let's keep it going. All right, so these are high-end products. National Treasures, Immaculate, and Transcendent. Oh, we skipped one. That's okay. Did we? We did. It's all right, though. We'll go right back to that. We'll go back to it. National Treasures, Immaculate, Transcendent. Your pick. Okay, we're going to go with Smash, National Treasures, Stash, Immaculate, and Trash, Transcendent. for Trashing Transcendent. It is an unbelievably expensive product. And even though the product went half price from what it has been this year, the thing that gave it all its value is now gone, which was the ticket, the guaranteed ticket to the event. Transcendent is a really … Now that ticket is randomized now. It is randomized now. They wanted to increase the print run immensely and lower their cost. So that's what they did. But the problem with Transcendent is you'll have really beautiful cards that really don't hold value. Like they really don't hold value compared to everything else. You pull a super fractor out of Transcendent and it's going to be worth 30% of the super you pull out of Flagship. And the reason for that is the product, it's not like a massively produced product, but it is all of this stuff is so short printed that none of it is. All of this stuff is so … Yeah. It's one in a hundred packs instead of one in a hundred thousand. Oh, it's a five. Well, half of these are a five. Yeah. That's kind of what I'm going to go with that. Yeah. So it just doesn't hold a lot of value. It's beautiful, but for $10,000 a box, that's a trash for me. National Treasure speaks for itself. It's the RPA to own in football and basketball. A true vertical RPA out of National Treasure is going to outsell any other card of the player on the market, period. And if you're not sure what a true is, it's the of 99 vertical RPA that is just the card number on the back, not a CJW, crossover, nothing like that. Just card number seven. And it's going to outsell anything else on the market. And then Immaculate's just a pretty product, and it's kind of sneaky as far as value goes. Is Immaculate or Impeccable the one where they'll do like rare metals, stones? That's Impeccable. Impeccable. And it's metals there. Yeah. They'll put a silver bar and gold bar. Now, which one's the ruby and the … Flawless. Flawless. Yep. You can tell how much of that I open? I would also say Smash, National Treasures. I would trash Immaculate. I'm not as big of a fan of that. It's just pretty cards. It's pretty. National Treasures, I love the depth of the Hall of Fame autos in there. Yep. Like … Immaculate has all that too. Yeah. National Treasures does it better in my opinion, but they're really pretty cards. And then yeah, only for price point on Transcendent. However, Transcendent is a sneaky good product to buy Hall of Fame autos for like your show inventory and all that because they present like they have more value. People know that it is a more rare product. So, on the secondary market, I love buying it, but when it comes to opening it, I'd probably have to trash that one. Yeah. Probably have to trash it. You're in a box. Just doesn't make sense. All right. Now, we're getting into it. This one's … We're splitting hairs a little bit more on this one going back when we skipped. Prism Football, Obsidian Football, Mosaic Football. We are not talking like rare SKUs of the product. We're just saying they're main products. Nope. Product in general. Is it my turn? Yeah. Is it your turn? Obsidian. No. Yes, I would. Okay. I don't love that product. Okay. And I don't love how, for the most part, it holds up. Visually appealing, yes. Easy to move, not as much, although there are some super rare, goofy parallels with that one. I don't like Mosaic. From the day that it released, I told you this. The conversation when it first released was, this is going to … I mean, this was in the heyday. It came out the same year as Design on Jocks, 2019. Everything was going nuts, and hey, the rumor was this is going to be a very short printed product. Remember that's what they were telling you? They were telling all … Very short printed. I'm going to say this. The design does not impress me that much with Mosaic. It's an uglier prism. The comps don't really hold up compared to what hobby costs compared to prism. So, man, this is a tough one for me. But it's a stash for you? Well, I have to stash one of these. I mean, I'm smashing prism football. Anytime I can buy that, I'm going to. I love opening that product. Maybe my favorite product you can get in retail. It's a super overprinted product, but it always holds up. And then stash, maybe Obsidian. Something weird might come out of that from a rookie class. How many cards are in that? Three, five? Eight. Eight? Is there eight in there? Okay. It's hobby only. And then Mosaic, I would trash, I think. We're on the same page. I just think there's nothing special about it, and it carries less value, and it's the same price point. My reason for trashing Mosaic is going to sound super petty, but when you go to a show, you can tell the quality of the show within the first 10 tables you walk to. And if all you see is a bunch of top-loaded Mosaic parallels of random people, you know it's not going to be a great show. It's just a super oversaturated product, and like you said, it's not great. We agree. We're on the same page. What's next? Up next, we got one more of the actual product releases. This is the lower end of things. So we got Heritage, Heritage Baseball, Big League Baseball, and Top Series 1. Yep. Just to be clear on which series we're talking about. I just want to make sure that we're on the same page. I agree. I just want to give you, I just want to make sure. I'm with you, and this is why my original comment was what it was. Everything is broken down very specifically, and then you went off script there. Well, what's interesting is when you let people finish a sentence, sometimes you gain more clarity around what their intentions are. So in that case, when I'm saying I'm talking about Top's update, it's because if you would have just not talked and listened, you would have found out. It never happens. I know it never happens. All right. Heritage, Big League, Series 1, your turn, my turn. My turn. Your turn. Go. My turn. This is going to be weird. We're going to go smash Big League, stash Heritage, stash Series 1. You like that? You can't go to hobby heaven anymore, I'm afraid. I love Big League. It is cheap and it is fun, and you can pull some cards that have value. For a $50 hobby box, you have a very reasonable chance of pulling a $100 card out of it. A very reasonable chance. They've got all the good rookie autos. They've got low-numbered stuff. All right, now talk to me on Heritage, then. Heritage is a stash. Compared to Series 1? Yes. Okay. I enjoy Heritage more. You already talked about why you like Heritage. I like it for the same reasons. The rookie cards, especially the variations, do really well. All the autos are on-card, and the red autos have a huge, huge following. If this is now a $200 product, do you feel the same way going forward? Yeah, because Series 1 is a $180 product now, which is insane. Yeah. And in Trash Series 1, only because it has such a short window of viability, it is the most produced product across the hobby in every sport, which is fine. There's nothing wrong with it. That set is what it is, but I certainly, out of these three, is the one I would push to the side. Mine's a little different from yours. Smash Heritage, Stash Series 1, and Trash Big League. I appreciate what Big League exists for. I appreciate that it is. It's designed to be a kid-friendly product at a price point that's affordable. It's actually a sneaky, decent product if you're selling baseball quickly. Within a few months, though, that's definitely one that falls off as the higher-end stuff or the nicer things are released. Heritage is super fun to open, and I sell a lot of the subsets and parallels because I have the eBay store. So for me, that's a no-brainer smash. I can open it right away. That and Top Scrum Platinum Anniversary, you can open right away and get almost all of your money back if you list quickly, if you don't have stuff that you like in there. I would Stash Series 1 because it's a conventional stash product. Put a box away. If one of the rookies pops off three to five years later, the fact that it's hobby, you still have a chance that there's a big hit in there. That's one that I would put away. I feel like there's a little more upside potentially, but it's also a product that could go down to 20 bucks because there's nobody in there. And then just with Big League, they almost axed it. It wouldn't have broken my heart. It sold so well, they were like, we got to keep it. It wouldn't have been that much love lost for me if Big League didn't exist anymore. You get rid of Series 1 or remove Heritage. For me, that's a little more surprising. You can go rip six boxes of Big League for $300. And you're probably not going to lose very much money. And you're going to get like 20 mascot cards. Yeah, which is cool. They're cool cards. They're fun cards. Spider-man. They are fun. Spider-man. And do we want to go into brands or do we want to skip to ... Let's just keep rolling. Let's keep rolling. Okay, let's keep rolling. We'll go quicker. All right, brands. We got the best one. We're saving the best for you right here. Leaf, Wildcard, or Onyx? Just go quickly. Simple. Smash, Leaf, Stash, Onyx, Trash, Wildcard. I completely agree with you. All affordable price points of entry. Leaf has some products that have better names that sign, and they have products like Leaf Trinity, which has really cool patches and stuff. Some of the best looking cards on the market. Wildcard. They do have people from the junk wax era that really do collect because they have different parallels. I got it. You're really something today. I'll tell you what. I don't know if it's the cold medicine or that you brought me a Welch's grape juice energy drink. You said, well, you bring me an energy drink. I said, what kind? You said grape. I said, got you. No, I said Monster Zero Sugar, grape if they have it. If they don't have that, a Celsius. If they don't have that, sugar-free Red Bull. I didn't see the monster part. You replied with a puke emoji and showed up with Welch's grape. He's like, it's great. It tastes like Welch's grape juice. It's amazing. I said, I'm almost 40. All right. I would agree with everything you said. Wildcard is a product. Cheap PC. If it's got a player you like in it, go on eBay. You could get some really low number stuff. They don't carry a lot of value, but there's people that think there's stuff in there that looks cool. I have purchased Wildcard, Dan Marino stuff. I don't expect to get what I got out of it. I just like it. I cannot express to you- You did. You just did. I can't deal with one more person who spent a grand on Wildcard on TikTok breaks, bringing me that trash to sell to me. Well, that's a whole nother conversation, but I would agree. Then Onyx does have prospect on-card autos, even though they don't show the serial number, are numbered. They're limited. A great example of this was a couple of years ago, Eli De La Cruz was in this product, and those autos actually held their value through the first year of his licensed autos. They also made some insanely cool short run, non-packed pull. They did an Ichiro card where he's like a samurai, but it's a baseball bat. Aren't they cheap? You can get the- It was like a $300 card, but it was limited to like 70. No, I mean get opening Onyx. Oh, it's like a $120 box, yeah. They have $20 boxes that have guaranteed autos. They have smaller skew stuff that actually isn't that bad. Topps, Panini, Upper Deck. Trash Panini, trash Panini, trash Panini. Topps, Smash, Upper Deck, Stash. I have a hunch that in all of this chaos ... I mean, Upper Deck is, I mean, in the US primarily hockey, but I think we're going to see them make a little more of a push on ... How would I describe this? It's not like they have more licensing. They make some really cool non-sports cards. Yes. So, Upper Deck would be in there, and I just respect them still. Yeah, we're on the same page there. After them printing Griffey's Rookie card 20 times, 20 years in a row. Influencers, let's have fun with this. Oh, this will be fun. This is my favorite part. First thing I want to hear is which influencer you want to smash. Jeff Wilson, Card Collector 2, or Sports Card Radio? Sports Card Radio, baby. Smash them? Smash Sports Card Radio, Stash Card Collector 2. Drag to the dumpster and beat a few times before you throw into the trash, Jeff Wilson. Why do you have such strong feelings about Sports Card Radio? Because they are like the amped up version of me. I will go hard in the paint, they will go ... In what way? Deep in the paint. How do you go hard in the paint? I'll say what I think about things without thinking about it. They will say what they think about things, but they will amplify it to make sure that it is as click-baity as possible. I enjoy their content. They are funny dudes. I don't agree with them on a lot of things, but they are enjoyable to listen to if you just want to experience two hours of rage bait. It's fun. I'm going to have to agree with you on Jeff Wilson. The reason is really simple. Don't present yourself from a place of expertise when you do not have the experience, pedigree, the success, the track record, the respect, the imprint on the hobby that you say you do. Correct. I think it's ... I could go further with that, but every time something else happens in the hobby, it's this ... Now again, we create content all the time. I understand the need to present an idea that's relevant, but we're going to have a freaking opinion about something. We're not going to land in the most vanilla middle spot on everything. I sure can't believe this happened, but I hope everything works out. Those guys are jerks, but everybody deserves a second chance. Stop. You can't please everybody. Just say what you think and let people either agree or disagree with you. I don't understand this need to be ... When you're crying to be relevant in every situation nonstop all the time, it shows that you maybe aren't quite as relevant as you think you are. I have two words. Will Greer. Yeah. Well, that's ... I was glad that you're going to say Davis Mills. No, that was my fault. I have two words for you this year. Daniel Jones. Remember, you heard it here first. He's starting for the Colts. I'm telling you right now. Stash Car Collector 2. Here's what I'd like to say. You and I both have been talking about this. I think we're a little bit old. The age gap of Car Collector 2, whenever he first was making it onto the scene, was like, this is a kid. He looks really young. for his age, in fairness. I think he's pretty close to your age. Yeah, he looks much younger and he has like a younger audience, but these cards and content podcasts that he's been doing are really good. Really great interviews. He tends to be somebody that kind of uplifts the hobby. In general, he seems to be growing the collector base. I think that he does a good job of that. Are there things where there's cringy moments for me at times? Yeah, maybe. But even like Shipshuana, he has a track record, Jeff. He has a track record of being effective in the things that he's building. He's been in the hobby for 25 years. Yeah, fair. Yeah, and he knows what he's talking about. There's the big difference there. Do I agree with everything Ryan does and says? No. Do I respect the fact that he knows what he's talking about and he's been a long-time active participant within this hobby and industry? Yes. Sports card radio is just, for some people they say it's too negative. I think they're very real. They stand on their opinions. Now, have they been canceled? Maybe. I don't know what's happened to them. I think they've moved all of their shows to a pay-per-click, pay-per-view content or like a monthly, like a Patreon type of setup. But I will say this. They dig deep to get to the bottom of what's going on. They're not afraid to get sued by somebody. Nope. They're not afraid to say what they think. Their theme song is nothing but a two-minute dig at Jeff Wilson. It's kind of awesome. It is awesome. But one of the things I would say too is they helped me a lot as a collector with one thought that they reinforced over and over and over and over again. And it was chasing after the rookie and overpaying for the rookie when you already have established Hall of Fame veterans available. And they helped me to see that the inventory I needed to add in were guys that are no doubters that have already proven this track record rather than investing way too heavily in these maybes. Like I think the one they talked about was Luca, like what more can he possibly do that's actually gonna raise that market? Right. Like do we see a bump if LA gets a championship? Sure, but he's already so expensive. Compare him to the greats that are already out there. Compare him to Michael Jordan's market. Compare him to LeBron's market and all that stuff. So I respect what they said. I also cringed at an awful lot of things that they said. They know that. They know what they're doing. They're getting views. They're getting clicks. They're smart. They're good marketers. All right, how far deep we wanna go with this? Because I feel like we're going a long time. You would thought we weren't gonna spend four or five minutes on each one of these. I know, I know, I'm a little bit surprised. Let's do just a couple more. Okay. Which one next? The next one, I like the next one. Mojo, King of the Cards, and The Cardfather. It's your turn. I'm really enjoying King of the Cards content. So that'd be the smash right now. I think he's actually one of the few people that does these transaction videos, buying and selling videos, where I don't feel like it's staged and set up. He actually offers at a margin that I have seen at shows. And people are usually in more of a pain point through the negotiation, which makes me think, oh, this is a real transaction. I think he actually does make money flipping cards, although his content is probably outgrowing that as a revenue. I don't know, man. His price point is steeper than what I'm buying. So maybe he is making more on that. But at this point, he seems like a humble guy. He seems like somebody that's actually grinding it out and flipping cards. And his content seems real, unlike a lot of stuff I've seen that's very fabricated and people are just giving stuff away at 50%. I'm not impressed. If you have a big audience and you got a 15-year-old kid to sell you $2,000 worth of cards for 1,000 bucks and a handshake, I'm not impressed by that. Yeah. And I think that that happens a lot. I don't get that impression with King of the Cards. And then Cardfather's gonna be the stash. Burbank hasn't figured out how it's supposed to work. Their online stuff that they're doing, moving to eBay, live with a lot of the stuff, I don't know how all that stuff is gonna play out, but their model is really simple. Buy stuff at a margin, advertise that you're always buying, and then sell it for more. And have good stuff. That's where they make it. Do they make money off of Wax, all this other stuff? Yes, but he's not even a big breaking guy. He's kind of anti-breaking. I respect that like crazy. And then for me, the trash would be Mojo. This guy just tends to not know what he's gonna say when he hits record, and then wants to be seen as relevant. When he did a video of him standing in the entrance of the National as if he was like an actual greeter that was supposed to be there, and like going for high fives and not getting them. That's beautiful. When people were like, who is this? It was him and Jeff there. I'm just gonna say that's all we really need to know, so that would be my choice. Yeah, we're very close. I'm smash the Cardfather, stash King of Cards, and trash Mojo. For the same reasons, just I value things a little differently. Cardfather's an older dude like me, maybe a little older than me, been around for a long time and knows the game. And again, I feel like whenever he is making content, it is content that is forward thinking and for preservation of the long-term health of the hobby, which is really important to me. King of Cards, Kyle's stuff is great. Like you said, very authentic dude. One of the things that you said really is true because a lot of these negotiations, you see these guys paying 90, 95% on these cards, and the only reason they're doing that is just so they have the content. They're not making any money on the cards. Kyle's usually paying 70 to 75% is what he's targeting. He'll maybe go up to 80, 82% if it really is a card he has a buyer for or something really cool, which is exactly the way I buy. So I can relate to how that functions. And then Mojo's just, it's bad, it's not good. I appreciate that he loves the hobby. I appreciate that he loves the hobby, but one, the content isn't that great. Two, in general, the approach he takes to things is not that great, in my opinion. And the video, anytime somebody starts whining and complaining about how other people in the hobby are treating them, I'm out. Like you're either a grown up or you're not a grown up. His interview questions remind me of the Christmas story when you're like waiting on Santa Claus, and the kid turns around, he's like, do you like Santa Claus? Yeah, yeah. I like Santa Claus, and Ralphie's like, all right. Do you like sport cards? Have you liked sports cards for a long time? Do you continue on, plan on continuing to collect them? Yeah, it's not. You heard it here, folks. All right, I'm gonna skip over some stuff until we get down to this guy right here. This is one that's been popping up in my feed, and I usually don't do this. I know it can be clickbaity, but I'm just gonna put it out there. Eric Michael Jankiewicz has this grift class called Major League Profits. And now, I will say this. He creates really clean content. Like the production value's pretty decent on it. He has a pretty big following on Instagram. He does these classes that are free. I'm guessing at some point they aren't. There's an upsell. And it's teaching you how to make money on cards. Now, the moment he lost me was the very first video I saw where he said, all you need to do is find cards and grade them and get a 10 and then make money. The problem is, gym rates, the variability of grading, the price point that the raw card needs to be, the timing, which I'm sure he uncovers in his class in great detail. Once you get to the paid level. But after watching some of his interactions at shows and like complaining because he couldn't get something at 50% that was already graded a 10. Like we just watched one today. Like the dude is a grifter. So that's a trash, trash, trash. Yeah, it's a triple trash. And again, really, really important point here. In this industry, more than really any other, this is not super complex. Is there a lot of information you need to be able to retain? Yes. But is it complex information? No. There is, I promise you, there is not a single thing that this dude is trying to sell you that you can't find for free. Whether that is on YouTube, whether that's listening to podcasts, whether that's listening to us, whether that's, shoot, you'll get a lot of this information from Jeff Wilson for free. Like you don't need to pay for it. If you have questions about how to make money in the hobby, reach out, reach out to us, reach out to a card collector too. Those of us who do this. Talk to the owner of the LCS, or you. Those of us who make content, those of us who do this for a living, it is in our best interest to help grow the hobby. It is in our best interest to help grow you as a consumer and somebody who wants to maybe flip cards to fund their passion of being in the hobby so they fund their own collection. Not necessarily doing it for a living, but you want to do enough that you don't have to take money from your bill-paying account to buy stuff for your collection. Reach out. We're all going to be happy to help. Some of us are going to take a little longer to get back than others. We'll probably get back to you pretty quick. I'm guessing if you shoot a DM to Ryan at Card Collector too, I'm sure he'll get back to you, but it might take him a month. You might be one of 500 messages that day. Yeah, he's a little busier than we are with content, although we're getting there. No, we got a ways to go. We got a ways to go there, but we're way busier than we have been. So yeah, don't fall for a grift. And if you're thinking about being a grifter, just don't. Well, here's what I'd say. There is worse advice than what I've heard him give. I've heard people recommend opening wax as a model for making money. You buy it, you open it, you send off anything nice, it gets a 10 and bada boom, bada bing. Five years ago, that was true. If you're somebody that buys into that, here's what I would encourage you to do. I want you to find 10 cards in your collection that you think are 10s. You already have them. You're not going to spend more money. And I want you to go ahead and drop your 250 bucks or whatever it costs to grade those 10 cards at PSA. When you get those cards back and you look at your gem rate, how many of those are nines and how many of those are 10s, and compare it to the $250 you just spent, we'll see if it's something worth pursuing. But right now, Prism Football has about a 25% gem rate on 2024. It's less than that. 22 on Jaden Daniels. It's like 17 everywhere else. It's bad. So that's how many 10s they're giving out at PSA on that. So do with it what you will, but whenever I see someone gatekeeping secret information that's not secret, and when I see somebody like complaining at shows and even putting on video like mad at a... There's a card that comped last at $3,100 in a PSA 10. This guy pointed out, hey, can you come down? The last PSA nine did eight or 900 bucks. He said, no, 10s are worth 2,000 all day. So he's even $1,000 under the last PSA 10 comp, right? And to which this guy's response was, well, I mean, it was a few months ago, but okay. Like give an attitude. Then walking off because he's embarrassed, because he's embarrassed, because he thinks he demands this respect in the hobby that he didn't get the deal he wanted. So this is not somebody that I would spend time with. And this probably brings up a whole nother topic we can address at another point. But TikTok and Instagram, be careful. Just because somebody has views does not mean they have good advice. Right. Matter of fact, there's a lot of really bad advice. And when there's not much regulation to anything like this, like it's super easy. It's the Wild West with this kind of stuff. It can become real MLME real quick. Yeah, there's only one piece of advice you really need in this hobby and really in anything when it comes to making money. It's very simple. Buy low, sell high. Don't be a jerk in how you negotiate. Those are really basically the two pieces of information that you need. Be fair, be honest. Try to buy as low as you can and sell as high as you can and call it a day. You don't need to worry about anything else. Is there money to be made in grading? Sure, if you know what you're doing. But that shouldn't be where you start. And it's shaky ground right now. Like that's something that just has to be acknowledged. SGC is on a little bit of a backlog right now. PSA is the only one that's really giving you the multiplier on a 10. And they are clearly trying to tighten up what makes a 10. Now's not the time to do this. But if you want to try this theory out, I'll tell you for free. Find a really clean card. Look at what PSA grades. Surface, centering, edges. What am I forgetting? Corners. Corners. Make sure that that is where it needs to be. Send it off and see what happens. But I sure wouldn't go spend a lot of money on these cards with the belief that I'm sure this is a 10. Because nobody knows. No, it's subjective. And somebody better be telling you that. So don't fall for this. Now we'll do, we do a free class. It's called shoot us a message. Yeah, and watch the podcast and go back and listen to the old audio podcast from the last four years that have tons of this information in it. One last little story and we'll finish up here. Because I sound, I mean, for those of you who've been listening to me just all day, you know, congratulations. It's been an experience for both of us. You had a conversation recently with a really big breaker on Whatnot with one of the bigger groups on there. And they were saying that they're beginning to see more and more of a migration from Whatnot to Fanatics for breaking in general. For breaking. For me, I'm not mad about this, but it sure is different in a changed landscape. When Fanatics Live first dropped, it was like, everybody's gonna break here. And then it was like, well, wait a minute. Nobody's breaking here. Seems like the majority of breakers are still over there. You could hop on Fanatics Live at one point and you may only have one or two products that you're interested that were being broken at a time when you would expect there to be 10 or 20 going on at once. So can you unpack that a little bit? What are you seeing happen in Whatnot with breakers? We talked about this about five or six weeks ago. It was new information, new policy on Whatnot that for breakers, people that are breaking, the ability to replay the break for buyers was going away. You would get your video receipt still of when you purchased your spot so you could see what team you got. But if you didn't wait around for the break to fill and watch the whole break, you couldn't go back and verify what you hit and what you didn't hit. And customers started getting really frustrated with that. The breakers are getting inundated with questions and cancellation requests and whatever else. Well, how do I know that I didn't hit anything? And it's making it very difficult for breakers, especially guys who are running either really big breaks, like five, six, seven cases that are going to take a little while to fill and people don't want to wait around. three hours from the time they bought a spot until the break fills. Or three days, depending on. Or they are really small rooms that take a long time to fill. At the end of the day, time to fill is the issue. So it's really caused a real big customer service issue for breakers. And the conversation that I had with this person is that their conversations with some of the other larger breakers on the platform, and we're not talking about small time people here, I'm talking about some of the biggest breakers on the platform, are looking at migrating over to fanatics. Now for people like us, that's great, because there's less competition for eyeballs for single shows. Single shows are still popping off like crazy on Whatnot. I think some of this started happening, it was way before there were scandals. It happened whenever Whatnot decided, okay, we've been running this thing for a while, we've kind of had some expectations or parameters for somebody to be able to sell with us, let's open the doors to everybody. And this happened, what, a year and a half ago? Because you used to have to have a, what was it, a business, or they wanted to verify that you had a community essentially already before you started this. And you opened one of those up back then, but it was more rigorous. It was a two week process. It wasn't hard, but it was a process you had to go through, and not everybody could sell. Now everybody can, and you have massive customer service issues. I mean, I'll just throw it out there, like two of the first four times I've spent money buying inventory on Whatnot, like seriously buying, not just randomly flipping through there, I had orders canceled, or they changed their mind, or they didn't like what they got out of it. And Whatnot doesn't have a whole lot in place to handle that properly right now, so that's going to be part of it too. So when you're tracking these guys, Whatnot advertises that you will get the estimated value of a card you hit in a break if it is not sent to you. So imagine how that becomes a cumbersome process on what level of refund somebody got. They spent $100 on this break spot, but they hit a card that's worth two grand, and they had advertised they're going to take care of the customer. Well, what's happening now? Well, now the back end, it's still visible, but to customers it's not, and that's the issue. It'll be interesting to see what happens. Changes in that landscape. As the hobby moves more and more into the digital space, we're going to continue to see this kind of disruption. It's the Amazon effect. We're going to continue to see changes, continue to see disruptions as that happens. Now, that being said, the hobby is still pumping at local shows. We're seeing great traffic. So speaking of local shows, tomorrow, Chillicothe, Ohio, the Southern Ohio Sports Card Spectacular. If you're listening to this on Friday the 28th, come see us tomorrow. If you are listening to this after Friday the 28th, come see us next week at Xenia. We'll be in Xenia next week, and then what do we have? You've got a couple of shows after that. I'm gone for a couple of weekends. The following week I'll be in Mansfield in Lancaster, and then in May we're going to be in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh first weekend of May, and then maybe Ship Shawana the last weekend of May. We are going to be out and about. We'd love to see you there. Please, please, please, if you haven't yet, download the WhatNot app. If you don't have it, find The Ball Card Show in there. It's at The Ball Card Show. You'll see our logo. You just did it again. I'm incapable of finishing that sentence. Oh, sorry. This has been the grumpiest episode of the podcast we've done yet. This has been The Ball Card Show, the esports podcast. For The Esports Collector. Bye now. Bye. Bye. Bye.