The Crowded Hobby Summer! w/ Leighton Sheldon

Welcome to the Golden Age of Cardboard podcast where we remember a time when stacks of cards were held together with rubber bands and Mickey Mantles were put in bike spokes. We hope you will enjoy and reminisce as you come along with us as we tell stories about the baseball cards from the Golden Age of Baseball. We will examine the state of the vintage baseball card market and talk to some of the greatest collectors in the hobby. You won't be hearing us talk about any chrome or shiny cards. Here now, to take you on this retrospective journey, here's your host, direct from the shallow end of the gene pool, my son, Mike Moynihan. Hello, everybody. Mike here. Welcome to another awesome episode of the Golden Age of Cardboard podcast. I know I have been hit and miss, but we're in the middle of the Hobby Summer and we're going to talk about that actually quite a bit on this episode. The other thing we're going to introduce in this episode is something that's going to be coming on a monthly basis. I'm really excited to be partnering with Auction Wire and being able to bring you guys kind of this monthly segment, monthly show that I'm going to be doing on Golden Age of Cardboard with a person that I've, over the last, I don't know, probably a year or two, have gained a tremendous amount of respect for and really like. And we get along and we. We think we love cards and we love vintage and we love just talking the hobby. And that's my man, Leighton Sheldon from over at Auction Wire and just collect. Leighton, welcome to our first of monthly. Kind of going through the things of the hobby and. And just talking and having little hobby chats. How you doing? Excellent. Appreciate you having me on. Looking forward to just hanging out and relaxing. Yeah, it's. It's hobby summertime. Right. And we were talking off air and you said something that was so true. It used to be the entire Hobby Summer was a singular event, I. E. The national. Right. That was kind of it. How has that changed for you and do you think for the hobby over the last, say, 10 years? So I'm going to narrow it down to five. Only. Only five? Yeah. Well, because I feel like a lot's happened with shows in particular. Mike. Sure. So it's not necessarily technology. It's more of. The hobby has become the juggernaut. The demand is insatiable for conventions. Fanatics realized it. The folks at Dallas realized it. Robert Burbank realized it. There's countless others, front row. I think they're called card show is another one that runs several across different states. And so you and I were chatting and remarking that. I mean, it used to be, at least for several years, for me in a row, the entire summer was kind of built around this National Sports Collectors Convention. The week or two after might be the East coast national, and we would try to plan to either attend and, or just, you know, exhibit there. But then after that it would be, you know, a little bit of time off and a little bit of R and R. Maybe the next big show would be Philly in September. And as you and I were just reviewing a couple of the shows, simply just in July alone or the next month, if you will. It's really staggering. And so I'm wondering, not just for you, Mike, but for those who might be watching like that are in your audience, how is everyone else dealing with this overload? Right. Are you like, if you go to the national, do you now feel like you're missing Fanatics Fest? Or if you're someone who goes to the Dallas show every few months, are you able to still go to that but then also make the National? Yeah, I think there was a. Historically. Right. It felt like the hobby hit a lull during the summer, save the one week that the national is right. You know, other than that, throughout the summer, it was typically a kind of a slowdown period in the hobby. Certainly on YouTube in the early days, much less content was created in the summer because people are doing vacations and, you know, life is happening. Well now it feels like just like our news cycle is compressed. The hobby cycle has compressed such that there's always something happening, news wise or company wise or release wise or whatever. And it, it. I wouldn't call it overload, Leighton, as much as I would just say full. Right. The. The calendar is full and, and you can find like, for example, next weekend there is going to be Fanatics Fest and it's in New York City again. Right. And then you've got the Dallas show is happening. So that's down here in the south and only a couple. You know, we're three weeks away. How many days away are we from the National? You know, how many days? Yeah, well, I'm 20 days away from leaving. Okay. So it starts, let's say that Wednesday. So it starts in about 22 days. Right. So it, it's become where you don't have to go to the. It used to be you wanted to go to the national because it was kind of the only thing, only game in town. Right. And if you're going to do anything for the month prior, month after, give or take, six weeks before, six weeks after the National. It was the national that, that was kind of the, the giant hobby event that all things revolved around. It's the center of the, it's the sun. Right. Of the hobby for a long, long time. Everything revolved around that. It's not that way anymore, right? Not that way. And I. Good for the hobby, actually. I mean, I've chosen not to go to the national this year, which is my first time in a decade to not go. And it's because I don't want to. And I honestly don't feel like I need to. I, I like the National. I'm not against international. I'm just, I'm like, well, I'd rather go to Philly in September, which I booked my tickets literally today, my airline and hotel and everything. So I'm for sure going to Philly in September. And I want to do Nashville. I want to, you know, I want to go back to Cali and go to a Burbank show. I know they don't call it the Burbank, the West coast card show, whatever they call it. I just want to do different things. And to me, having Chicago, having Chicago be the host of the national three years in a row is actually not great. Great for the national. One man's opinion. Take that for what it's worth. People go, been there, done that. Now when it's in Detroit, I'm excited to go to Detroit. It's something different. Right. I want to do that. So I know nobody dislikes going to Chicago. It's actually a great venue for the show. What do you think is going to be different this year? What do you, what are you anticipating that's different? If anything? I mean, I guess the first place I would start is I didn't think. And I'm laughing because I can't prove it yet. Right. We're still a few weeks away. I think this year is going to be busier than last year's. I do too. And I didn't think that was possible after leaving last year's because it was a record setting convention for us as well as many of my other, you know, you know, friends and associates and companies that I've known for a long time. But I feel like it's going to be another level this year and not by like a few percentage points. So if I could, I guess, pause there, it makes me realize that both as a dealer and as a collector, even just as a casual Participant, like, I got a, I got a buddy coming in for a couple days. He's not really a collector. He's a sports fan. He asked me where to stay. He asked me, you know, what to do, should I get the vip, all that. He's not really a collector, Mike. He's someone who's looking forward to checking out the convention, like, the hobbies. Grab this individual. And so to me, this all points to better prep, because if it's busier and there's more people that are interested, right? Something as simple as the dinner reservations and your sneakers all the way up to like, hey, you know what? Maybe in years past when you bring a handful of extra graded cards for your collection, you're like, ah, I'll just figure it out. When I'm there, the dealer's just gonna make me an offer. You know, if you're better prepared, you could probably get a few more purchases in or a few more trades in. So that's kind of how I'm thinking about things. How about you, you know, for the next, let's say I know you're not going to go to the national, but, you know, even going to Philly, have you, you know, now that you've booked your ticket, like, have you thought about goals yet for that show? My goal at every show is to have a good time, which is kind of hard not to do at a card show. But to me, to your, to your point about your buddy who's just coming in and doesn't really collect, but just the national is an experience as much as it is a card show. And so I think to see the vastness of how our hobby really is. And like, I took my brother a couple years ago in Cleveland. He met me there. He's not a collector. He has some cards, but he's not really a collector. But he walks in and my, My nephew was with him and they're just like eyes, you know, wide open, mouth agape at the, like, holy crap. I had no idea that this is what it is. And it. And it's like, like, yeah, this is. It's crazy, right? And that the casual collector or the person that walks into the national, even for seasoned guys like us, I'm still blown away every time I walk in the first day and I'm just going, holy crap, this is really big. And I think it makes the preparation, as you're saying, even more important the bigger the show because there's so much, you know, square footage to cover, right? So many tables to see, and you really don't I don't want to miss anything. Like, to me, going to the national for a day seems absurd now. If that's the only day you can go and you really want to go, go. But you're not going to be able to see everything in a day. It's physically impossible to look. And so I have different strategies when I go to shows. I kind of like to make a lap, so to speak, check everything out. I try not to buy anything on my first go around because the minute you buy a card, you walk four tables down and it's half the price for the same grade. You know, you're just like, gosh, I should. You know, that impatience, that just desire to. To, you know, break the ice and buy a card is so tempting. I've just learned to be more disciplined over the years after making mistake after mistake of buying quickly in a show. And so it's walking around, getting a kind of lay of the land and a feeling. And one of the reasons this is going to sound so trite, but it's true. The national has changed how they handle media passes and other things, even dealer passes, to a large degree, which I'm sure you're dealing with, such that I don't. I don't have the same access that I used to have to the national to be able to go early and get, you know, kind of get early access and some things, Some. Some perks that I was afforded, and I was grateful for it, and it made my show experience different. And now it's like those things have kind of been taken away, and it's. So it's less enticing for me because I. I'll just be, you know, I can go to any show then and just be a part of the herd. And there's nothing wrong with that. I'm part of the herd on a lot of shows. But the national was somewhere I could go and get in early and. And do my, you know, homework, so to speak, and scoping out things and scouting out tables and all that. Usually by the time the show opened on Wednesday, Leighton. Because I'd go in, you know, Tuesday late and watch your setup, and then certainly all morning Wednesday was just magical time for me to be able to be in there without everyone else. I would spend most of my money before the show even opened on Wednesday, before used to be. So my goal of the show is to have fun and, you know, try to stay disciplined. I am going to the Dallas show in a couple weeks, and, you know, I'm not going to the national, but I'm going to the Dallas show. I'm going to the Philly show. Like I've got shows on my hobby calendar that's going to keep me. I'm gonna have some FOMO probably in the moment while I'm seeing videos of everybody putting stuff out and I'm like, ah, a little bit of that will probably creep in. But I right now I'm sitting here three weeks away and I'm not regretting the decision not to go at this point. I may regret it later, but who knows? I know you look forward to it every year, right? It's a huge event for you. What are you all doing in terms of you're gonna have your Just Collect booth again? Is Auction Wire gonna have a presence at the show too? Yeah. So Auction Wire will be sharing booth space with our company, Just collect at booth 301 and 303. So if you just go into the main entrance of the convention, literally straight down, left hand side, you'll be able to find us. But there will also be plenty of other really good, you know, dealers, collectors, auction houses, various companies along the way I'm sure you'll be able to see. But yeah, we'll be set up there. Looking forward to it. Is there any Auction Wire show promos that you all are doing or anything for people that subscribe to Auction Wire? Sure. So in regards to people who subscribe to Auction Wire, there's going to be a night kind of, you know, between just collecting Auction Wire, we're going to take out a bunch of clients, you know, locally to one of the, you know, the places that are right there, you know, easy walking access across the street. I don't know if we'll be fortunate enough to get into Gibson's or Capitol Grill, but like one of those places will be hanging. And then in terms of offers for new folks who've kind of been on the fence, Mike, who might maybe watch, let's say tonight's episode or whenever you run this and they want to learn more about Auction Wire. So number one, we'll be giving demos all week long, so you can come by either meet myself or Mark, our co founder. And then number two, if you are inclined to sign up, you know, we will be offering a free trial period of I believe 60 days that you could take us upon and learn more about that at the convention. But specifically if you sign up at the national, at our booth, we're actually going to be giving away a free vintage repack to anyone who decides to register for Auction Wire, who's not already a client. We won per household. There's 100 total. So once we run out, we run out. But I know in that group, because I specifically built this, there's a 62 tops, Mickey mantle, all star. There's t206s and there's goudies. And so every card either has some sort of vintage importance, meaning, like it's an important card, like a Gaudi or T206, or it's Star hall of Famer, vintage style. And so we're excited to kind of offer that promotion only at our booth at the National. That's very cool. Will you have some shirts? Because I love your shirts, by the way. We do. We'll have some shirts for those that, you know, swing on by and either want to sign up or wear our swag, you know, at the convention. We greatly appreciate it. But I want to point this out because I know for me, this is what I've been doing. The National. Just say for a minute you're gonna go, Mike, maybe I'm twist your arm. I gotta. I gotta. I think I have a way to twist your arm towards the end of this episode, but I'm gonna hold out a little bit here. So imagine you go into the national and you have your plan. So whether it be it's Joe Jackson's your plan or Mickey Mantle's your plan, or Phil Necro, really anything and everything in between. Right. But the national is really big. And no matter what you do, you will not be able to see everything. It is just. It's impossible, especially with is how big the convention's grown. So one of our campaigns that we're going to be running during the national as far as Auction Wire is concerned, but really just came born out of what's happened for me and I think, others, is that in preparation for the National, I'm discovering other. Let's say either the same exact card or comparables. So that instead of going to the national and not thinking that there's any Cracker Jack, Joe Jackson's around. I'll know, literally, upon stepping foot on that Tuesday when the national opens up to dealers, I'll know that. Morning. Hey, what's in my auction wire feed? What's live out there? Not just through auctions, but. But through marketplaces like Rea and Memory Lane, through dealers like our friend Ash at Legacy, our company just collect, as well as Garrett Wells and his company and others that we're adding. So this is no longer. It's. We're called Auction Wire. You can find us at auctionwire AI but we are much more than just auctions. So I invite you to not just come on buy at the national, but really think about what your task is or what you're trying to accomplish at the National. And if it's gonna be something that you think might be challenging or you're not gonna be able to cover all the ground, I highly suggest getting a demo before the National. You'll still be in a free trial period. You can reach out to me personally, latent@justcollect.com or I can contact my partner, Mark, and he'll set you up with a demo and we could talk to you about how you can utilize and leverage Auction Wire to even before stepping foot into the National. So that way, once again, going back to Joe Jackson, who you can clearly see is something that I'm targeting there or a Jackie Robinson card. Like, I know a lot of people right now, they'll buy a 48 leaf, Jackie, and a myriad of grades. They just want to know what it looks like. I'd recommend going on to Auction Wire before stepping foot into that convention the Tuesday or Wednesday before. See what's available and the very least it'll offer you guidance as to what you're now seeing in person. And maybe that guidance that you've now picked up from Auction Wire is going to cause you to make a purchase in person. That's fantastic. But on the flip side, what if the data you see on Auction Wire from all these multiple platforms, by the way, we're now at about 40 plus platforms, which is incredible considering it's all under one roof. So that's the way that I would try to leverage Auction Wire going into the national, especially if you're a collector or an investor with certain cards or rookies or even in some cases, photographs. We've now added in tickets. Shout out to my buddy Ryan and Howard and their new auction ticket company. So there's a lot going on as far as data. And I know for me as a co founder of Auction Wire, the reason why we did this and we continue to do this is because as a collector and also someone as a dealer who does this full time, it's literally priceless to me what I'm able to do and how many will use it and what I'm able to get out of it. Yeah. And I would piggyback on that. There may be people, if you're wanting to do some of that homework, like Leighton saying here, you can go now and sign up for Auction Wire. Use My code golden age. And you'll get that 60 day free trial and try it out and be able to do that pre. If you want to wait till the show and go see them at the booth, great. But there's a lot of you guys out there that are going to be watching this, listening to this. You're not going to the national, and you're like, this sounds really cool. I could use that when I go to the Philly show or the Nashville show or Burbank or wherever. You know, use my code golden age. You'll get that same bonus. Basically get a bonus month using our code, and that'll let you try it out and see if it makes sense for you. There's so many cool tools there. It's. It's. It's pretty much my go to search engine, by the way. Leighton, I don't even. I don't even use anything else. Why would you. There's no point. So it's. It's. It's a really great tool. I love how you're talking about how people can. I. I hadn't even thought about that from a research standpoint, heading into a show, thinking, okay, I just think I want a 41 play ball. DiMaggio, you know, I'm not really. I probably should do a better job of knowing what are they selling for? What are, you know, what's out there right now. If I, you know, I see one at a table, but I have this other one that I can see great pictures of or whatever from an auction. Maybe I do that. You know, I just think that's very smart. Good. Good stuff. Yeah. Well, you know, listen, we're still a few weeks away, and I know you're suggesting you're not coming, but we'll just say, you know, Mike, if you decide to come out and, you know, you can lend a few minutes of your time and your charm to our booth, right? And bless us with your presence, maybe we can find an extra badge for you. Maybe we'll make that work, get you behind the scenes. I'm just letting you know. Okay. All right. And if not, we'll most certainly be in Philly. And I can tell you firsthand, I haven't been to the Nashville show, the last one, but I went a few times ago. And not only is the show great, the people are better, but then the location. Like, I've now been to Nashville a few times. Super fun city to check out. If you like music and you like good vibes and you like eating barbecue and Southern women, it's a fantastic place to check out. It is fun to do exactly what you're saying. So my. Let's talk Philly, right? Just for a second. I'm going to Philly. My wife's coming. She's bringing a friend of hers and her daughter. Like, they want to go check out. They've never been to Philadelphia, so they want to go to Liberty Bell and into, like, most of these shows are in places. If you're somewhere else in the country, it's pretty cool to just go see a different part of the country and check stuff out. And we're going to a Phillies game. We're going in on Thursday. The show starts on Friday. We're going to go to a game on Thursday night. Julie's never been to that ballpark. Like, there's just. It's more than just the show if you're going. Nashville's, like you said, a great town. You go to la, you know, for the west coast card show, or Phoenix for the front row show. Pick your place, right? Even Dallas, there's tons of stuff to do here. To me, it's not that big a deal because I live here, right. Or close to it. And so. But my friends that come all want to do all the, you know, they want to go see where Kennedy was shot or, you know, all this stuff. So that seemed morbid, but that's true. That's where it happened. I don't know what to tell you. I like how you brought that up as kind of this ancillary benefit to traveling different places for shows. It's one of the reasons I want to go to Detroit. I've been there before, but I was there very briefly just to go. I went there just to go to a game. So just to knock that stadium off my list. And I didn't stay a lot of time there. And I'd like to do some more stuff in Detroit with the national being part of that trip. You know, that's the cool thing about these shows. There's so many big ones all over the country. You can go to unique places maybe that you and your family have never traveled to. And that just adds a different dimension of, okay, I'll do that this year, you know, Strongsville, though, now has become an absolute must for me, by the way, I. I didn't think it would, but I went a couple times and I'm like, yeah, I'm probably done with Strongsville. And now I just. Yep. It goes on the calendar, you know, because it feels like the national felt number of years ago. Before they got so big and so corporate. And I'm not even knocking that. That's the nature of things. It's just Strongsville still feels little small townie, you know, in the way that it is. And it's still lots of cool, crazy stuff. So, anyway, back to the summer, right? So going to ball games, going to, you know, you're traveling with your families. It's. To me, it. The. The hobby schedule feels so much more full now. And that's, again, I'm. I'll say that's a really good thing. It shows the health of the hobby, right? Oh, most definitely. Now, I have a question for you, Mike. Yeah, you were alluding to this earlier. I was trying to think about what mine would be as well. But you're talking about how getting into the national early, whether it be as a dealer, even just as a vip, there's real value in that for you as far as not just the treasure hunting, but also maybe you can actually buy something while you're treasure hunting that you think is super cool as well as maybe it's a good investment. Who knows what comes to mind, whether it be the national, the Dallas show, or another convention that you were able to be on the floor of it early and it yielded something just incredible. Whether it be, once again, something you flipped. That's okay here. Profit's not a dirty word, or you just found something amazing that's been in your PC since, you know, 11 years ago. I'd love to hear if you have something that comes to mind, because I'm now thinking of at least one thing that comes to mind for me. So I'll tell you my story. You can tell yours. Cleveland, a few years ago, the last time it was in Cleveland, whatever year that was. 22, maybe. Does that sound right? 23, whatever year that was, went to Cleveland, was walking the show early. I saw a T206 Christy Mathewson portrait, and I was absolutely not in the market for that card, truly. And not that I don't love it. I absolutely love it. And I looked at the price. I'm like, that seems pretty reasonable. And I've actually got. I gotta grab it. I can't tell the story without showing. Yeah, especially if you have it. That's crazy. Even though this is a podcast, those of you listening can't hear it. I'm really glad I wore pants tonight line of the show right there. Everybody's glad I wore pants tonight. All right, so here's the card. Luckily, I know where all my cards are, so it is I'm gonna make this bigger just to so T206. It's in a PSA2, and it is gorgeous, right? And it's a sovereign back. Oh, nice. So a little bit rarer back. Not crazy rare, but. But different than a Piedmont or sweet cap, right? And so I. I find this card. I see this card, and I'm gonna be wrong on the price, but I'll guess it was 1200 bucks, something like that. And I thought that's. And I looked up prices and felt very reasonable. And given the back, I'm like, what is wrong with this card? Like, I cannot see a flaw. Why is this A2? Everybody I show it to, why is this two? Why is it A2? Which is the best compliment you can get on someone looking at your cards is, why did it get this grade? Because it looks way better than that. And I put it under a loop after I bought it. I'd already bought it because I didn't really care what was wrong with it. And I found one of the top corners has basically paper shaved off of it. Like, it's on. It would be considered paper loss, but you can't. The naked eye cannot see it. And so I was so proud of buying that, because it wasn't that. I mean, who doesn't want to own a Christy Mathewson portrait 206, but it's. It wasn't on my radar, and I was able to buy this. And I love finding cards like that that I like to go into. Shows Leighton without a true want list. Are there cards I'm. I'd like to find? Sure. But I like going in with an open mind so that I'm not so locked in that I might walk over this card. And the key to that was this card was so nice and priced so well. I bought it, like, Wednesday morning at, you know, 10:00am and I had seen it Tuesday evening, and I thought about it all night. That's when, you know, like, I gotta go back and get that Christy Mathewson. I have to go get it because. Because I was thinking about it, and I woke up the next day, like, I gotta go get that card. And I knew where it was. I'd written down where it was and was able to pick that up for what I thought, again, the value, yes, it's probably worth significantly more than what I paid for it at the time. But I didn't buy it for that. I bought it because I loved it. I just thought it was so cool. And I bought it at 10am on Wednesday. I would have that card would have been snatched up by someone else if I had not had that early access that I was grateful to have and felt privileged to have. It wasn't, you know, like I'm sitting there feeling entitled or anything. I just had the ability to be in there and I was able to pick up a card like that. So that's my story. What. What's yours? I mean, oh, my goodness, my head's spinning because there's a number of stories, but also, you know, just the way you told it, it was calling to you and I can appreciate that. I hope I'll see you at the National. If not, I'll certainly see you in Philly. You know, a couple things come to mind. I'll be brief. A number of years ago, when I say a number of years ago, I don't know, it could be as many as 8, 10, or 12, but I was able to buy a 52 mantle, tops, that was already graded, but it was definitely undergraded. The way you're describing the Matheson and showing it off, it was not commonplace back then, but it was a little bit easier, especially with early access to convention. Last year, I had. I had happened to already been looking for one anyway. It turns out they got really hot since. But I bought a 66 Don Russ Marvel. You know, the. The superhero set. Yeah, all ungraded, but pretty nice. I bought that last year raw on like the first day of the convention from a buddy of mine. Richie, if you're listening, thank you. That was nice. I'm pretty sure. And it's just random, but it's. Because I can't. I won't sell it. I just think it's. It's a. It's like, why would I get a different Bob Gibson rookie? But I'm pretty sure I bought this Bob Gibson rookie. I can't say it was the National, Mike, but I think I bought it Raw at a convention early and it got a 5 from PSA, but it's literally dead nut center with sharp corners and I can't figure out what's wrong with it. And so I'm just gonna hold on to it. I love the card. Well, that. And that's a recently graded one. You just got that back? Yeah, yeah, I think I bought that. I don't remember when exactly, but, you know, now you gotta figure out how to submit cards, right? Because not every service is available, you know, and all that good stuff. And I remember I bought a really important wire photo a number of years ago, well before PSA was slabbing anything just because I've been collecting photos for a long time. But there's no doubt that there's value in being on the floor early. As a collector, you know, as a dealer and investor and, you know, it's not anything that I take for granted just happens to be that it comes with, you know, the, the booths and our package. So, you know, for me, I take advantage of in the sense of I will literally go Monday to check in, even though it doesn't open till Tuesday. It used to be you couldn't even get your badges Monday. Now I'll go Monday. I fly in Monday, you know, try to get a deal or two done, you know, like in the hotel and such and then get the badges. And then Tuesday morning, like my crew's online with the truck to get in, you know, like right when they open the door. And then, you know, I'm pretty much there after eating a pretty decent breakfast and lining up there about 8 o' clock and starting to walk the floor and seeing what Christy Mathewson might come my way. Mike, you know, I don't know. I'm glad you weren't around in that moment. And I thought I can remember big cards I bought at nationals, who I was with the circumstances around it. My maze rookie came at a National when I wasn't looking for a maze rookie. My Aaron rookie came early at a national and I was there early with another buddy. And we must have looked at 50 different Aaron rookies, you know, and to find the one that I wanted at the price point grade value, you know, kind of that trying to maximize the grade, minimize the cost. All the things that collectors run through their minds and it's. Those are just memories that never go away. Dallas shows or any, any show. I think that's what's great about shows, is it? It's a timestamp of an experience. It's, you know, part experience, part time stamp, part hanging out with your friends, part buying cards and. And so it's just. It's an experience in the hobby unlike any other is these big, big shows, you know. See, now I'm talking myself into going to the national. Thanks a lot. I mean, listen, I can help make it happen, that's for sure. I was. I had another topic and now I've gotten totally sidetracked with thinking about it. Well, yeah, because you have the brain fog setting in of like. Wait a minute. Before today's episode, I wasn't going to the National. Honey, I have something to discuss with you. I had this really fun idea I have a really great idea. I'm just gonna go see. And I'd be like, oh, I'll just go up for a couple of days. That won't be enough. You know, I'll be moving so, so bad. I've had people tell me like, mike, I can't imagine a National without you there. And I'm like, it'll be fine, I promise. The hobby will survive without me there. And I've been pretty firm on this. But you got me thinking and I don't know, I am going, gosh, who knows? Anyway, I mean, listen, if you can take the time off, this is why my buddy's coming. Because he, he actually asked me before he bought, he booked his ticket and such. And listen, he's fortunate that he's financially well off. So it wasn't that. It was super duper expensive at a hotel. He was like, wait, am I going to like it? And I said to him, like, listen, this is not like going to a ball game. So if you want to go to a ball game, don't go to the national, go to a ball game. He's like, what do you mean? And I said, I know you like, I know when you go to the ball game, you're like me, you like to get a bag of peanuts, right? You think it's cool to have a hot dog. You may not even eat a hot dog anywhere else but in the stadium. You think having a hot dog is good. I said, it's the same kind of thing, but at a convention. Like, in other words, if getting up early is gross to you to walk more on the convention floor, maybe you shouldn't go. He's like, well, tell me what's on the floor. And I said, this is what's crazy. You're going to see potentially a better array of material at the national than you will, not even at the individual respective hall of Fames. Maybe even combined. It's possible, especially with what cards are going for these days in terms of value. Yeah. So I just said, I'm like, you can take any path you want. If you wake up and you decide Spider Man's your guy. I'm telling you, man, you could probably spend five figures on a Spider man card. That's not my thing. I know it a little bit that market, right? But like, you could buy a five figure Spider man card right now and you can Also buy a 5 figure pay lay card or mantle card or a $5 mantle card might be a reprint, right? I don't know how many Mantle cards you're getting for $5. But he then started to get it. I mean, listen, it's literally a museum, but it's like, choose your own adventure. So if you're in a soccer mood after lunch, look at soccer stuff. That's the one critique I could offer for the national or piece of feedback. If there was a way for like, my buddy who's coming, he asked me, he goes, where's the sections? And I said, what do you mean? He goes, like, where's the soccer section? I said, well, I heard it might be upstairs, because I know there might be a soccer section. But the point being is that I know that although they do their best to have like the breaking area in one area, and some vintage dealers, like the old. The OGs, right. The contingency are in at least one area. Ish. Like Kevin Savage and Levi and people like that. Great folks. But it's. It's not. It's not so easy. You can't just pick up and say, you know, I want to go down the Otani aisle. It's not. It doesn't work like that. Right. I don't know that I've always thought that was. I had the same criticism of just the way it's structured. You, you know, you could do some segmenting, like Strongsville has the vintage side, you know, now that there are two shows in one or whatever. But it's. It's still even a mishmash, right? It's hard to do that perfectly. I. I used to be critical of that, and then I thought about the logistics of it, and it's just so hard because so many tables have such a wide array of things. Well, where's the autograph section? Well, everybody has probably some autographs on their table or. You know what I mean? Or it's just so tough, so many. No dealers, really, truly exclusive. Except maybe the guy selling Japan car, you know, Japanese cards, or the guy that's exclusively. Yeah, there's. There's probably a handful. But just to bring this up as far as an operational issue for those that maybe, you know, don't know how booths are selected by vendors such as myself and others, some of the folks I name, like Levi and Kevin and such. So it's through a point system. So in other words, the longer you've been a dealer, the higher priority you have. But there literally is a draft. Call it a fantasy. It's not a football draft, it's not a fantasy baseball draft, it's a fantasy hobby table draft, but it's not fantasy. It's real because you're selecting your boots. I remember last year, like, oh, my God. My booth from that, like, last year was no longer available. Like, pretty soon, this is how bad it got. Last year, dealers who had multiple booths like us were starting to pick one booth in the front and one booth somewhere else because they couldn't get two together in a place they would find acceptable. So I'm just pointing this out because it's not as easy as you, I and others would think to just put all the vintage in one area, all of the modern in one area, all the autographs in one area. I think they do a decent enough job of the autograph pavilion, meaning that's all in one area. The Case Break Pavilion is at least in one vicinity. So I think that's in one area. The vintage card section is not in one area, but there's a lot concentrated in that earlier portion of the convention. So they do the best I think they can. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, these are small things, right? Oh, no. You have to walk around the whole floor, like, God forbid, Right? I mean, it's. Listen, between the eating and the drinking all week, Mike, at Gibson's across the street, and I think I'm staying in a hotel that has Capital Grill. I mean, like, I'm gonna need the 20,000 plus steps a day. Believe me, I will. Yeah. It's, again, good problems to have. You know, the people at the National. To me, it's changed since the new ownership took over. They've gotten. It's just so big. Is it? Does it get to a point where it's too big? Leighton, is that possible? I mean, others have said similar. I think it is possible. For example, I'm just throwing it out there, right? If it doubled in size from where it is now, even if they found a big enough building, it's actually a great question for the audience. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts, but I think you're on the precipice of that now. And the reason why I say that is you're talking to someone. I mean, I'm a huge card nerd. So besides the fact I do this for a living, I love this. So I used to the final. I would say three days. I would literally have a regimen. I would allow myself, call it, you know, several hours over each day to try to hit the whole show for a combination of my own enjoyment. And maybe I'll get lucky and buy something, you know, you can make some shekels on. Right. And I'm telling You, man, unless you have some sort of motorized vehicle, like you're part of the security team there and they'll give you a scooter. I don't know how to do that whole convention anymore. Not in the, not in the allotted time you're given. What about expanding the amount of time? Oh, I think that'll be great. I think the issue is, and it'd be great to have the national on your show, but I bet you they have a situation with the unions. So they're not just, you know, hiring or, excuse me, getting a contract for the space, but they're probably securing personnel and workers. And so I'm just going with my gut here. I think with that particular place, the Rosemont, there's, there's definitely a union or unions. Right. And I don't, I don't know that you can get the people. I'm just making it up to work a 12 or 14 hour day or shift, you know, that's open. I'm not even talking about the per day, but multiple more days, like started on Monday. Oh, I mean, once again, you have my vote. I vote yes. But I don't know if it has to do with what it costs. Lack of availability. Right. Because theoretically, right now you're saying if you want to start it on Monday, you actually can't do the move in on Monday because you'd have to move in earlier. And so theoretically now, Mike, they're going to lose a whole weekend before of revenue from a convention. So once again, I'm not in operations management for them, but I would imagine it's quite difficult. Right? Yeah. Because right now it's essentially they're, they have the convention center the whole week pretty much, you know, move in starts Tuesday morning or whatever. Right. So even though the show's not open till Wednesday, late afternoon, the prep and the, all the things are happening way before the doors open to the public. Right. So that does seem to, I, I admit it would present different problems, good problems to have. I don't know. I just think to me there's so many people that want to go. It's, it's, it's relatively compressed in terms of the number of days. There's so much area to cover, so many tables to look at, so much stuff to do. It's just hard to do even in five days if you're there the whole time. You know, really tough. But I had some other cool things to talk about, but I'm, I'm losing them in this moment. Let's talk about real Quick, Leighton, we're. We're going to do this once a month. You and I are going to come on this show and talk about the hobby goings on, whatever it is, the topic du jour. What are you looking forward most as we, as we kind of launch this and get this going? What can people look forward to? I think a nice, laid back take on what's going on more specifically in the vintage card space, but also because I feel like you and I are very comfortable riffing ideas with each other. Yeah, I think it's going to be fun talking about, like, for example, making up a segment for our next episode. Hey, what's my hobby wish? Like, I think it would be fun, you know, maybe we'll have to have some ground rules for that. Yeah. But I think you and I love the hobby so much, there won't be a shortage of things to talk about. It's really going to be about finding focus and making sure that we don't just take away hours and hours, not just from our own lives, but from other people's lives as well, so that they'll come back for the next episode. But I would say that because I'm definitely on the forefront of a lot that's going on in the hobby, both in vintage cards. But then I would say just in terms of Auction Wire and technology and just the general goings ons of grading and things of that nature, I think it'll be all encompassing, but certainly with a specialization in discussing vintage and what's happening in the market there. I love the idea of the continuity of the conversation, meaning you and I, as we go, two, three, six, eight months in, our rapport will grow. Our just depth of conversation will continue to grow. And I, and I think you guys out there watching and listening will be the benefactors of that because you'll get to hear us. Neither one of us really hold back a whole lot and we're going to be honest and, and just tell how we feel. And we have two different perspectives. They align in a lot of ways and, and they're different in some other ways. And that's good for you guys, the listener and the watcher. And, you know, I'm excited about what you guys are going to be doing at the national with Auction Wire and just collect and, you know, I'm such a fan of the product, obviously, Auction Wire. By the way, guys, the link will be down below, both here and in the podcast. You can go click on it and go straight to Auction Wire and sign up for that free trial of 60 days and, and check it out. But that'll be, you know, something we mention every time, obviously, because it's such a cool product. But us talking about the hobby, I think I've been doing this, let's see, 45 years now. Where, where are you at? What's our combined hobby knowledge? Hobby experience. Oh, sure. So. Oh, my God. I mean, 35 plus years. So, so 80 years worth of hobby experience. I was going to say hobby knowledge, but you're always like, my, my hobby knowledge probably fits into a thimble, but compared to what could be known. So you're going to get a lot of experience. You're going to get us just having a lot of good times talking and, and we'll, you know, by the, our next show, we'll get to talk about how the national was and we'll be able to talk about if I actually showed up or not. We'll see. Well, you know, I don't bet, but I'm gonna set some odds. And I feel like before we started, you know, you were like, you were like a seven to one. You know, you were like a nine to one. You were kind of like a long shot. And I'm not saying that they're, they're vastly improved, but I'm gonna put the new odds at like 5 to 1. They're so long. But they moved on the board. I can feel it. Well, you guys can put down if you're going to take the bet. And I'll let you guys, by the time, see, I'll have gone to Dallas for sure. Right? You'll have been to the national. Maybe I'm at the, like, we'll have some cool things to talk about and maybe ideally, what that I love going to a show because it gives me a. I can take a pulse of the hobby. I can take a state of the union, so to speak, of where. Where do I think the hobby is? And I think it's a great litmus test for that. And so I'm looking forward to that in Dallas. Like, is Dallas gonna be packed even though the national's two weeks away? I think there's so much hobby money. We talked, we didn't even get to how many shows. And the crowdedness of that. And what does that do to the hobby dollar and does it matter anymore? And, and maybe we'll say at future show, you guys will just have to come back and hear us talk about all this cool stuff. So, Leighton, thanks for being here on this kickoff episode for our little series that we're going to do for for the foreseeable future and appreciate you and grateful for your friendship and the enticement that you provided dangling that carrot. Thanks a lot. Well, keep me posted. You have my cell, so text me. I appreciate you having me on. Grateful to be here to talk about the hobby with you. It's fun and I hopefully am going to see you as well as some of the other folks who might be watching this at the National. Awesome. Well, thanks guys for watching listening this week. We'll be back soon with another episode of the Golden Age of Cardboard podcast. Y' all have a great evening a day, wherever you are in the time and keep collecting.