The Hobby Rushes to Judgment + The Most Dangerous Hobby Idea? Trust Yourself | The Hangover Ep. 5

The hangover. What's up buddy? How you doing? Doing good, doing good. Here we are, the Hangover. I don't think this is episode 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. I'm not sure. Here we go. Here we are, the Hangover. It's June 15th. This is going to drop on Wednesday the 17th on the sports Card Clubhouse. This is exclusive Sports Cards Live content on the Sports Card Clubhouse platform. David Chase, Jeremy Lee, we are here. We had a pretty crazy, some might say epic, some might say controversial, some might say fun, some might say sad episode of Sports cards live just two nights ago here on the 13th on Sports Cards Live. We did four hours. We started half an hour late because of the basketball game. We still did a four hour show. David. It was kind of crazy, kind of epic. I have lots of comments on that. Obviously we were talking about the, the issue with the half a million dollar Brady card, the transaction that was never fully consummated through a broker. The, the buyer is out the money. It was pretty epic because we were talking about the, on the episode, a lot of talk was about this, the broker and his name is Bruce and didn't like hearing us talking about him. And he actually came on the show. He, he came, came in the chat. We weren't sure if it was the real him or some imposter. It was him sent him the link. He came on the show and you know, came on to sort of state his case and defend his position. But wow, it was crazy. The, the, the audience is, you know, been very engaged with it but you know, came out of that one sort of vibrating a little bit, you know, what, what were some of your takeaways? And I don't want to, I don't want to listen, Watch the show, watch the show to hear about the details. Right? Watch the show. What do you, what are your thoughts, David? I mean, I, I, I've told you the last couple of weeks I've heard from a lot of different people about Sports Cards Live. It was nothing compared to what I heard over the last 24 hours. We're taping this on Monday. Including like, you know, I have some friends that I didn't even know watch Sports Cards Live who are not copy hobby people who have reached out to me about this episode. My dad, who doesn't always make conversations with me about some of the stuff he was talking about it and literally all of our hobby friends, I mean we're in chains of like pages of dialogue on their theories on this craziness that ended up happening. It's just so cool that there's a live show that's a live hobby show like sportscards Live, where something like this can happen with, where it's just organic and I mean, it's an episode that I'll never forget. It was a little Jerry Springer esque, but it was. And we have to remember that even though it can be a little dramatic in different ways, but it is really affecting two people's lives pretty aggressively. And we have to just keep that in mind where it's not just entertainment. It really is a tough situation for a couple of individuals. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that because a lot of the comments on the video are very, you know, people are, are jumping, I'll say jumping to conclusions. They are, they are. You know, it's all. They all. A lot of people are kind of treating it as if the episode where we had both of the people on it was Steve and Bruce are. They're using the episode as the full scope of evidence upon which to come to a verdict. And a lot of people are coming to verdicts and I, I'm not, I'm not coming to a verdict yet. And even if I am, I'm not willing to really publicly state my, my, my opinion because it's all it is is opinion. No one has all the facts on this situation on either side. I think, I think it's like they say, there's three, there's three sides to every story. Right. I think we're in a position here where it's that third side of the story that we don't, we, we don't have from anybody. I think naturally we feel more for the person who, who is out the money. But it's a very emotionally charged situation. You see that on the episode of Sports Cards Live. And this happened in about the second and third or the third and fourth hour of the episode, if anyone wants to go back and watch it. But lots of, you know, lots of comments, lots of verdicts and I would just caution people, you know, know it's, you know, the way justice works in America, coming from a Canadian is, is that, you know, you need, you need a full, a full set of evidence, you need a discovery process and you need, you need a literal trial. That was not a trial on Sports Cards Live. That was a little bit of, that was, that was really just the opinions of the, of the two parties to the, to the case, the defendant and the plaintiff. That's really all we had there. And it wasn't, it wasn't conducted by A lawyer. Although we did have one of, you know, Josh, who is a lawyer, did ask some questions, but it wasn't complete. There was no time to prepare. No one saw that coming on the show on Saturday. So I just caution, people like David said, these are two human beings who are having emotional impacts on their life. And it's, you know, we can come to our conclusions, but to put them out there publicly, I think is very. I don't know if it's risky, but I think it's. I, I don't know. It's the way the, it's the Internet. That's just. The Internet does that. So. And for, for people who, who haven't seen it yet, you know, just to kind of give a very broad sense of it, it's just somebody who lost a significant amount of money and then somebody who's defending themselves against accusations. Right. Like, that's pretty much what the episode is about. Just to, to, to clue some people in if you didn't watch the episode yet. But, yeah, sports cards. Yeah, because it's an episode. I mean, have you, have you ever had a episode like that before, Jeremy, do you think? I mean, David, I've, you know, we've got, we've got nine, almost 900 live streams on the channel now, 316 episodes of the flagship sports cards live. I, I can't go through and remember them all, but it was, it was certainly one for the ages. You know, like you said, we'll never, we'll never forget it. Let's, let's, let's quickly pivot here to a, A meme that was inspired by the episode that came out on Instagram by the infamous. Everybody's favorite commenter on YouTube, Mr. Bob Boozle. So Bob Boozle put this up on his Instagram. It's, it's just sort of an image of a couple of people. If you're listening to this and not watching, it's like the set of a live sports card show. There's some cards on the table. These guys have money in their hands. One guy is literally slapping the other, and it's like the host is in the background saying, hold on a second, guys. And he titles this as Insane fight breaks out over a $50,000 card. And then he writes a caption on the, on the, on the post as well. It reads, bob Boozle Productions presents the future of hobby content. We will bring together buyers and sellers in deals gone wrong to settle their differences live in video. For the delight of beloved viewers, we will not intervene until blood is Drawn guests must sign waiver before appearing on show. So kind of a. In. In the Bob Boozle spirit which he's been doing, he's been making memes based on content for a while now on Instagram. And interestingly enough, as I was saying, I think to Joe on the phone last night, half of the post Bob Boozle puts out there several. I don't know what they're. What he's referring to. I don't watch all content. So you know, if you know it's one of these. If you know, you know. But Bob Boozle is a fun follow on Instagram and, and he doesn't give away who he's inspired by, but that comes out in the comments. But this one was pretty obvious just based on when it came out and we had him in the chat, so we know. But, but yeah, check out that episode, guys, if you'd like. I think we leave it at that for now, David, because know, I'm still processing it in my own head and, and listen, at the same time, I don't want to be a part of it. I don't want to, I don't want to insert myself into the middle of that controversy. There are, there are lawyers involved. I'm not inserting, inserting myself in there anymore than we just did. You feel the same way for you? I feel, I feel the exact same way. And I just hope that they both get a, a resolution. I hope the truth comes out and, and we, and either either, you know, one per. There's exoneration or, or there are consequences when based on the truth, which we don't know for certain. Okay. I bought some cards last night on Fanatics Collect. And one of the things that we're kind of using this episode for this show for us to share our pickups and so let me, let me do that, David, and just sort of share some of the, the cards that I picked up last night. I'm just gonna go grab those. And I did give you a bit of a sneak peek. You. You know what these cards are. And if you watched my Fanatics Collect weekly auction ending watch party show last night, you also would have seen that I bought. Well, I, I bid because I, I was literally streaming and, and. Well, you watched it. I was streaming myself. Bidding on cards like a dummy. Who does that? Who shows the audience what they're bidding on cards. It just gives people an opportunity to shill. Bit up to your max, right? So, yeah, I like how you said you gave me the sneak peek. Yeah, you gave the world A sneak peek as you were. I did. Which cards that you're going on and you were a madman last night. Like usually you're, you're bidding on like one card and Jeremy, you had a list of 10 cards that you were going for and going back and forth which was just showing like the inner workings of us as a collector what we do sometimes when we have these auctions. It was, it was so fun to watch. It was fun. So I'll share what I ended up buying right here you can see the prices and everything. I guess in the spirit of transparency you'll just see the prices because I don't have the, I didn't have the images anywhere and I wasn't prepared for that. So I bought this card, the 98 finest Centurion with coding Barry bonds 500 copies made. It's serial numbered a PSA 9 pop 145 graded higher. The all these prices are with the buyer's premium. So this cost me $168. And I am of the belief that Barry Bonds hobby wise is going to get more love as time goes by despite the PED use. I think that he is simply the greatest hitter of all time and, and I think that people are going to, are going to come around to that. I've owned Barry Bonds cards in the past. Didn't own any. This is the. I bought one a few days ago. I bought this and I bought another one which will show up later because we're, we have these sort of by cheapest, most expensive. But I love Centurions and this is out of 500. There's also a Centurion refractor which I believe is out of 75. I know it is in, in hockey and basketball. I, I guessing it is in baseball too but that would be probably 160. Probably add a couple zeros onto that or at least you know, maybe, maybe be five, $7,000. So but I think it would certainly be more than 10 added on and do you think that Bond needs to get into the hall of Fame to get his fully hobby relevance? I think that would help. I don't think he needs it but I think it would help. I think it would help. Yeah. What about you and yeah, I don't think he needs it either. I mean like you know, Pete Rose is still not in the hall of Fame and he's. His cards have increased in value so significantly recently. Right. Joe Jackson isn't in the hall of Fame and his cards are not cheap. And also with these cards do you care about the coding Would you have purchased this if it didn't have that? I would have. I would have purchased it with or without the coding. I prefer them without. I think the cards are prettier. The shine comes through without the coating. But this is a card that I'm buying to. To. To. To satisfy two of my hobby spectrum activity mindsets. Right. This is in my operator category. This is a card that I will be able to sell if it re. If this card put it. If this card becomes worth five or ten times what I paid for it, it's going to probably move into my. Either my limbo box, which is I might be willing to give away, or into my trader box, coming to shows with me sort of thing. So it, but it, but it also fits into my collecting box, you know, my precisionist box. I was very precise in acquiring this card. But to your question, I would be just as happy owning it. Peel off. I think they're prettier that way. But peel on. I think from a resale perspective might appeal to more people. So kind of win, win there. Yeah. All right, next. Next card. Nice. Next card. 1982 OPG Ricky Henderson in a PSA8 holder sold for 200. I bought it for $252. What I don't have at my fingertips are populations I obviously for the bonds F fanatics told us it's pop 14. 5 higher. That's great news. I think, I think if I recall like 200 total submissions, something like that. The 82 OPG. I mean 250 seems like a lot of money to me for a 1982 base card of Ricky Henderson. You know, it's, it's. It's a third year card. It's not even a rookie, but it's OPG and it's a re. It looks like a really nice eight to me, David. So I. And as I mentioned on fanatics, the fanatics show last night I already have a Nolan Ryan OPG card such that I'm considering building a flight or maybe a small collection of Opichi baseball cards from whenever they started until, you know, the through the 80s. And the other card I have already in my. So this is card number two is a very young collection for me. It just so happens to be from the same year. I'll just show it on my phone here. But I have the Nolan Ryan. Oh, I have the Nolan ryan in an OPG as well right there. It's also a PSA 8. And this card was actually gifted to me a couple years ago by my friend Sylvan Sylvan Cormier who goes by Lash Wine on the on YouTube and is a very active on the sports card are on the hockey cards gong show network and is a fellow consignment director for slab Sharks out east just like I am. So anyway, I now have the Nolan Ryan and the Ricky Henderson. That's pretty cool. So do you still have your Henderson rookie or do you not have that anymore? I do, I have. I, I bought. Yeah, I have that. Love it. And I have a special connection to the Henderson rookie. David. When I was 18 years old and I graduated high school, me and a buddy in September of that year, September of 1990, we're 18 years old, we flew off to Australia on the students working abroad program and we were there for eight months. We both, we were busboys at the Hard Rock Cafe in Sydney, Australia on Crown and William street and then we traveled the country. On our way home, we stopped in Los Angeles and I had an uncle there and, and we went to a card shop and I bought my first Ricky Henderson rookie card at that. I forget what shop it was, where it was. For all I know it was Burbank sports cards. I don't know. But I bought a car, I bought my Henderson rookie there and that card is long gone. I mean I opened a card shop a year later when I got back, you know, got back home, I probably sold it. But the Henderson rookie means a lot to me. I love it. So yeah, so now I have this. I love that. And, and was this card on your radar? Like was this one. Like, was this a card that was kind of on your mental list of purchasing someday? Nope. In preparing to do the fanatics show, I go through the auction and I look for cards that I'm interested in. This one hit and I went shopping. And I went shopping. If it wasn't an opici, would it still been on your list? No. Would you have still? No. So part of the joy of this was the opici and keeping it as a flight with the Ryan. Take nothing away from tops car tops baseball cards of this era too. I would still maybe own some. But no, this made this, it made the fanatic show because it was opg this bonds made it because it was a centurion numbered out of 500, low pop, you know, that kind of stuff. So all these cards I only bought because I would discover them when I was preparing for my Sunday night show on sports cards live. I then bought this card here. This is a 2012 Immaculate Collection number Patch of Yao Ming. It's numbered out of 11. It's in a PSA 9 holder. I prefer it was raw. I would have paid the same price if it was raw. I might crack it out. We'll see. I probably won't, but I might bought it for $432. Now, the reason why I bought this card is because I love it. I don't have a Yao Ming, but I Panini made a counterpart to this in Hockey 2013. In their National 2013 National Treasures product. And that is a set that I went crazy on buying the counterparts. But for hockey, to the point where I have 150 of the hockey cards. And I'm not going to show you all of them because they're small on my phone. But I'm just going to spotlight myself, David, for a second. You can see how this fits into my collection. Here are the hockey cards that I have of it. And they're all numbered to the player's jersey number. And as you can see, I have 123. I said 150. I have 123 of these cards. And so the bat. By buying the Yao Ming. I am now entering the basketball area of that collection. And I would like to find a few others. I'm not going to need the whole checklist. But if anybody knows of any cards from this 2012 Immaculate Collection number patch set. I'm in the market for some. So what was that hockey set that you showed? Is that the full set or is. Are those picked over? So no, that is. That is more than the whole set. So it is a. I believe it's a 97 card set. Because it was a. It's a parallel to the base set. 100 car base set. Panini didn't have memorabilia for three of the players. So they skip numbered it. 97 cards. I have all. I have 96 of them. I'm missing one because there's three one of ones. Right. It's number to the player's jersey number. I'm missing one of the one on ones. A goaltender by the name of Jonas Hiller. I've been looking for this card for 13 years. 12 years. Don't know if I'll ever find it. It's the last card I need for the set. I have the other two one of ones. And then I also have doubles. Where because I remember these are numbered to the player's jersey number. I have. I think I have 66 of the 93 cards jersey numbered. So it's crazy. Yeah. I've been. What? Yeah. Yeah. So in the case where the jersey numbered patch isn't as nice as other copies. I have two copies so that I have a really nice copy of the patch as well. I can show you one example and then we'll move on of that. But for. When did you start collecting these? As soon as it came out upon release, 2014. It's a 1314 product. So in 2014. And I've been going crazy. So for example, here is the Yvonne Cornway. He played from the 60s and the 70s. Here's the Yvonne Cornway numbered 12 of 12 boring patch. Well, here's my other copy. So I have a beautiful patch as well. Wow. Yeah. So when that, when the one, when the, the number one eventually pops up, I mean, that's on auction, like that's one of your first things that you're putting on auction wire and ebay and things like that, right? Like. Yeah, yeah. Oh man. Oh yeah. You get that, that, that's an amazing collection. You know what's funny, David, is that it's like that set along with something. It's kind of like a lifelong pursuit in a way. I'm always looking for those other jersey number, the last 30 jersey numbered pieces I don't have. Yeah, I, I, I'm okay not having it. You know, I want it. It's in my, I have two, I have two save searches on ebay to make sure I find it. One is just the player's name. One is like National Treasures patch sort of thing. So I'll find it. If it's spelled wrong, I miss out on it. So may have to wait 20 years for the next buyer to sell it, but it's okay. But let's keep going here. We got a lot to get through still. Wait, wait, one last question. I know we have to keep move on, but why would you crack that out? What's the reason to possibly crack that out? Because this, these 123 cards I have, none of them are slabbed. So have you cracked any of those out? Yeah, I must have along the way cracked one or two out. A better example of a collection I have is my, my, my cup base patch. Parallels that are out of, numbered out of 10 or 8 in some years where I have almost 500 of those in my collection and I cracked those out. I bought several and cracked them out. Over the years, probably two dozen I've cracked out. Yeah. Nice. Okay. Yeah, keep going. Let's do it. Two more cards. I bought another Barry Bonds. This, I'm extremely bullish on this card. This is a 2001 upper deck barry Bonds game. It's a, it's an upper deck game jersey. It's a game jersey, not a patch. It's a game jersey card with an on card auto and it's a pop 2 and it's a PSA 6. It's a pop 2 with 8 graded higher. Bought it for a thousand twenty dollars. Now this is a card that I think, you know, listen, he's no Michael Jordan of course, but I think that these early jersey autos, this is 2001 upper deck. I mean super early in the memorabilia pack pulled auto game. I think this card has a ton of potential. I think it's, it's being slept on and I think that this for me is, it's a card that like. It's one of those cards, David, where I bought it thinking it's, it's gonna, it, it could be valued higher in the future. So if I buy it now for 10, 20, I think this card will easily be 10 to 20 grand eventually. When, I don't know. It's one of those cards though, that as soon as it becomes like right now it's an investment for me. Right now it's, it's my, it's me being an operator in the hobby, not a tycoon. So I didn't buy it to quick flip it, which to me is more tycoon behavior. It's a long term hold until the world catches up to where I think it can get to on this card and then it's okay. Well, do I remain an operator and sell it? I think I'm going to be hard pressed to sell it psychologically, mentally. I think it's going to be the car that once it gets there, it's going to become more entrenched as a long term collection piece for me. A personal collection piece. As a precisionist, I'm always going to care about its value for a card like this. But I, this is the era I was watching baseball like the, the, the 85 to 95. That's my era of baseball. So I could see my, I could see this becoming a long term hold for me as a collection piece more than just like an investment or, or an inventory piece. Yeah, man, Barry Bonds ruled the, the game like no other. Like during this time. I mean it was just. He was on such a different level and he still is. I mean he's on a different level of, in the entire baseball universe with you thinking like that. If another one of these came up for auction, would you possibly buy even a Second one, because that's your mindset. Oh, that's where I, that's where I kind of, I don't know. It's, I don't do that very often, but it's like for. How could I not. Right. For a thousand bucks, I think I probably would. I have a feeling that I, I have a feeling that bonds car. They are on the uprise already. We. That's kind of common knowledge right now. The Bonds cards are on the uptick. I listened to an excellent episode with of Iowa Dave. It was the final episode of the Shallow End, the final episode where he had a guy called Rice Bonds Montana to Young on his podcast who's a guy in the hobby that I've known back to the message board days in the 2000s. And he's a huge bonds collector and he talked about it and I was, I remember walking the walking, doing my, my walk and thinking like, oh, he's making so much sense. And I heard other people talking about him as well already. I'm like, I want to get in on some, I don't want to, I don't want to miss out on some potential value appreciation. This is the operator in me talking and which is not my dominant archetype. My dominant is precisionist. But I, I, I do have art. I do have operator in me. And I was like, I want to get in on that. So here I am getting in on it. But I think you've purchased three bonds cards in the last two weeks. I think, right, I have. There's another one I bought on, on ebay. But I'm, when I'm preparing for these fanatic shows, I'm looking for cards to talk about on the show for, from a content perspective. And I end up doing it for cards I, I'm interested in. So, so I went shopping that I think I was, I think I was bidding or, or considering about a dozen cards. I ended up winning five of them. I got outbid on, on a Michael Jordan baseball jersey card, but. And then the final card I bought is this one here. 1999 upper deck, ionics warp zone. Shaquille O'. Neal. This is a PSA 10. It's a pop 2 in PSA 10 with I think a total pop of like 16, 19, 20, something like that. What happens if I. What does that do? Does that take us. Oh, that does take us to psa. So let's just see if this is going to give us the. Yeah, here we go. So it's a pop 2. It's card number WZ9. If we click on that, it takes us right there. So total pop of 18, 2 PSA tens. It's a Shaq who's a player that I collect. It's a 90s insert, 1999. Paid $1,260 for it. I, I so this, this serves a few purposes. Number one, it's a beautiful looking card. Number two, it's got great pop stats going along with it. It's 27 years old, meaning that the low pop I think holds for a while here. This isn't a card that you're going to see an influx of, of submissions so but it's a card that once I get it in hand and I will take it in hand, that I'll then assess it again from an aesthetic perspective and, and decide, okay, is this a card that's going with my high end shack collection or what is this a card that I could potentially move to help fund other cards I want? I'm not sure. But in the meantime it'll sit in my collection. I do collect Shaq and I collect Shaq Lakers card which this is so kind of a perfect card for me. I mean I, it just shows how I cannot figure out pricing on cards to see that this is a pop 18. Now I know that there's probably a bunch of them that are not graded, but I mean a pop 18 in a PSA 10 for it to be this price. And I, I mean I watch your fanatic shows sometimes with these 90s inserts and man, the, the difference in pricing of some of these cards. I, I really, for me, it's hard for me to fathom how many of all of these cards did you look up pricing and comps before you put bids on? None. How do you know? I don't. What was your mindset when you're paying this kind of money on that? I Dude, I, I trust myself more than I trust the market. Let me put it to you that way. I trust my own instinct in the hobby to, to not like, not to say that I think that I'm paying fair. I just, I just don't inside in many cases I don't want to be bound by what other people have assessed cards to be worth. I don't want to talk myself out of something because the market has, has, has opined on values via auctions for comps that end up in card ladder that, that I, I don't want to be bound by that. Now not that that's not a gem. That that is not, that is not an umbrella Statement that applies to everything that I do. I do often look up comps but on, on non commodity cards being low pop or low print run cards, I don't want to really know. I might have looked it up for the Bonds, Jersey Patch, Jersey Auto, I don't remember. But, but I so don't remember that when I was bidding. I don't care what the previous comps are. I really don't. But if I'm out there buying, you know, a Jackie Robinson 48 leaf card which is more commoditized than this pop 2 PSA 10 or even this, this, this is a low pop. Ricky Henderson PSA 8. This card here, only 500 made. It's a, it's a pop 14, 5 higher. I trust myself more than I trust the, the group think out there. And that doesn't just go for card values, that goes for a lot of things. So that's why David, that's why. And do you think that it would possibly hinder your spending on a card like this if you did notice that one of those cards sold for $500 last month? Like if, yeah, like if I, if I were to go look at comps and I found that this Warp Zone Shack last sold for $600. Yeah. My immediate response today would be like well there's only two of them. It's a pop two in PSA 10. So my immediately I would be like well when did that other copy sell or this one previously? And if it was just last week, I'll be like well it was. I'm still going to trust my, my price. The other thing is I love that there's an under bidder here. There's an under bidder who supports 1260. Right. They're willing to pay 1200 or whatever. So I wouldn't be bothered by it. The problem is is that if I saw the comp was five or six hundred bucks, I might not have bought this. In which case if I think that this card could be worth $6,000 a year from now, well, what's the difference If I pay 600? 1200, yeah, I don't want, I try, I come back honestly when I'm not BSing. I trust my own ability to anticipate future than I do the general consensus. I really do because I've got 40 years of doing it and being proven right 80 of the time. So I'm not perfect obviously I, I, I have lost money on cards, I've sold too early, I have sold too late, all these different things. So anyway, those are the cards I bought. David, we still have some things we want to get through. So now what I am going to do is I'm going to now set up to share a couple of cards that you have that you wanted to. To talk about. So just allow me to get that ready and. And we'll jump into that. So what do you want to talk about first? Now, guys, just so you are aware, this next segment of the show, we're going to talk about two cards, but each card is going to bring us to a topic that I think is interesting. Not just about the card, but a topic. So, David, do you want to start with the. With the non sport card or the sport card? Let's do non sport. Just because it kind of goes into last episode a little bit. Sure. Okay, I'm gonna put it on the screen and then I will let you present the topic. I'm just for everybody watching. What is on the screen is a 1966 Marvel superhero Spider man card. This one is called Next Time I'll Fly the Kite. It is card number 34 in the 66 card Marvel superhero set and Spider man card span card 34 to 44. So it is the first of the 11 Spider man cards. David, what are we talking about here? So I thought that this was just an interesting subject because I did just buy this card. It's kind of a zig to Jeremy Zag of collecting these Marvel superhero cards. This card was not. I did not even know about it 12 months ago. I probably didn't even know about it six months ago. And it's interesting because I knew about the Superman number one card. I knew about the Batman number one card. And. And I felt like Spider man is next. I feel like he's the number three superhero and it's pretty much cemented that he's number three. And it's not as iconic of a card. And it's an interesting pop count compared to those other two where Superman, there's 285 of the one that Jeremy has. He bought at the national last year. The Batman card has a lot. There's a couple different version. There's a European version, there's a Canadian version, but there's around 3,000 of those and there's 690 of these. And I was. When I was. I've had this card on my list, but I was not going to pull the trigger on one, especially in a PSA 5, which is a higher grade than what I was expecting. But kind of the deal came in and it kind of Slapped me in the face. And I ended up getting, in my opinion, a deal where I feel like I could sell it for more than what I paid for it, even right now. So I like it. But then I also was thinking I want to have a flight of those three cards. The Spider man number one, the Batman number one, and the Spider man number one. And I've. And it's actually been sent to me where I think I'm going to have it in hand today. And it's going to be tough to get it out of my grasp after I have it. I'm falling more and more in love with it as I see it. But it's interesting because you've also had great conversations, Jeremy, about not needing to be shackled to the number one card. And I feel that way with a lot of the other cards in the set for some reason. I don't feel that way about this card. I feel like for Spider man, because of him being such an icon, I do like having the number one in the set for a reason that I don't really understand. What's your thought on the number one? Spider man versus later on in the set? So, great, great topic here because I've been struggling myself with this 66 Marvel superhero set. Spider man is not the only superhero. There are six superheroes featured in the set. Each superhero has 11 cards. So I struggle to think, like, do I, do I want the first card in this. In the 11 card span? And I think. I think the odd. I think the hobby is going to say, yes, the first card in the set is going to be the most important. Hey, look at the Superman set. Card number one, I believe is. Is far superior to cards two through 150, or however big that set is. Batman card number one is only Batman. The set is called Batman. Batman is featured as the. As the subject on card number one. Card number two is Robin. And then there's other, like, figures, and then there's scenes throughout the. Throughout the whole set. Superman. Really. It's. You have Superman and then you have all the scene cards after that. Even. Even number one is a bit of a scene card. But the Superman set, it's all about Superman. The Batman set is all about Batman. So to me, the number one card is very important. This is different and not that much different. This is six subsets within one set. On that logic, the number one card should be the most important. Here's where I divulge. Here's where I. I take a. A zag. Consistent with my unshackledness and not needing the rookie card for every player in my collection or every superhero. Let's say I decided that yes, I would like this card and I think it would go great with my Superman and my Batman cards, which I have. And then maybe I'll get that too. But as far as the overall Donra set goes, I've, I, I've identified, I think four of the superheroes that I want to have represented. And for that flight from this 66 card set from 1966. Oh, I just know. I wonder if that's a tie in on purpose. I realized that I don't, I particular. I don't particularly like the aesthetic of this card, David. It's, it's, it's, it's all. It's got that boring plain white background. I just don't think it's a, a beautiful card. Iconic, soon. Important, yes. Beautiful, no. So what did I do? I went and I bought this card instead from the same set. This is card number 38 from the super. From the Spider man that I'll show it on the screen briefly. I think I've shown it before, but this is the one I bought. I love the yellow background. I love that Spider man is dodging a punch. I think it's a cool card. It's really about the aesthetic. It's that yellow background that I love. And I bought another card. I bought the Iron man from that set, but this isn't the first card. This is card number 19. He goes from 12 to 22. It's got this peachy colored background, so orange, whatever it is. And I also want to get a Thor. Thor is tough. He's got 11 cards. There's only one that I really like and it's got a blue tone background. So as I build my flight, which I'm very interested in building flights, I'm gonna have the yellow background, the peach background. Thor will be a light baby blue background because there are white background options. I don't want that. And then I, I have my list somewhere. I forget who the other one, the other superhero that I want to get from that, from the set is. But there's one other one I'm going to get and it'll be a, a fourth color. So I'm kind of really taking the flight angle versus the having the first card of all four superheroes. But I think, David, I think that Spider man is gonna be the one instance where I do grab the same card you have eventually or not. Because I have the versatility of taking this card and Putting my Marvel flight and put it. Or putting in my general superhero flight, even though it's not the first card, it's fr. It's one of those first 11. So I've given myself the permission to say I have 11 options to choose from to get one card from the set. And I, I am gonna sort of say to myself, well, I know in the back of my mind they're not all equal for the purpose of this. I'm gonna trick myself into thinking they are sort of thing, you know. Yeah. And I love, I love just hearing every, like your opinion and all these other content creators opinions and. And it really helps shape me to what I'm trying to do. Not that I'm just obviously I'm not buying exactly what Jeremy's buying. Right. But. But I did not know of his Superman card until he bought it at the National. That was the first time I've ever seen it and that it put it on my radar. We didn't. You said you didn't know until I bought it. Until you bought it last year at the National, I did not know of that Superman 1 card even existed. I didn't know it existed. Right, right. And these Marvel cards I've known about, but I didn't really know that that Spider man card was the number one. Even though I've seen it before. I didn't really know was his rookie card. And just by like sometimes consuming content and seeing how people approach the hobby and seeing versions of what Jeremy was into, like, I, you know, it totally rubs off on me and it starts making me go down different paths and then I kind of create it my own way. Right where I love that he's going for that version and I'm like, I don't know. I'm kind of still stuck in that rookie card. I'm not as unshackled as he is yet, but I feel like I could get there eventually. And I do have cards that obviously that are not all rookie cards, but I was thinking about rookie cards and how you, you. You've allowed yourself to not be bound by only rookie cards, even though I know you love rookie cards too. And one thing that I've always kind of wanted to question you about on that, on rookie cards is a part of the rookie cards, which this one is not this one. Take this away. Let's talk about like your Jim Brown rookie and things like that that you, you have had in the past. One of the cool things about rookie cards, I feel like, are that when that card came out a Lot of those players were not stars. Right. Mickey Mantle did not do well in 1951. Sandy Koufax was not a superstar in 1955. And when those cards were produced, they were not on the top of the pile being held where the kid was excited about it for years later, I don't think that it was as coveted at that time. And that's just a part of the rookie card aspect that I feel like we don't really talk about very much where I do kind of feel like it was a hidden treasure that was found later and maybe not kept as well as later on years. Do you feel like that that resonates at all? I've never thought that. I've never thought about it that way. But I love that thinking. And it's funny because it's now nowadays in modern, ultra modern product, the exact opposite is true. Everybody's a superstar until they're not in the hobby. Right. So. Right. But in the olden days, you know, there were players that didn't have cards the first few years they played. And even though cards were being made because they weren't, they weren't even on the radar of the card companies or the card company ran out of room on their sheets to make them until. Until they became more worthy of getting on the set. So not. But that isn't the case for all a lot. Like you mentioned, a lot of those players made the sheet but they weren't yet household names. And so the fact that they had cards before they were famous is really cool. And like, while I am unshackled from rookie cards, everything my whole approach and everything I say on all the shows that I do, we do when I'm guesting on other shows, all this stuff my, my love and. And the lane I'm in that is not rookie cards has take nothing away from rookie cards. I am just because I am pro, non rookie cards does not take away from rookie cards. I am not against rookie cards. I have several in my collection and I plan to keep them. I am not only non rookie card collecting. So yeah, I think it's. I think it's. I think it's. It's fun. It's fun to talk about. And Jim Brown, you raised Jim Brown. So I had his rookie card. I love that rookie card. I have a painting of it right up there. See that? See that? Yeah, I see that. Yep. Yeah. So I love that card. In a way, having that painting allows me to not feel like I need to replace the card. I had the card I owned his Rookie card for several years. I sold it when I in one of my major consolidations and I feel like, do I need to get it back? I feel like I've had. That's one that I, I might get back one day maybe for flight purposes because it kind of mixes well with the 69 tops baseball set as well. You know, like it looks like the Gibson and you know there's some great cards there. So I might get it back. But I'm on the hunt for his second year card right now. Nothing against the rookie. I've had it. Well, I get it back. Maybe I find myself. I'll put it to you this way. On auction wire. I don't have a search for the Jim Brown rookie, but I have a search for the Jim Brown second year. So I don't know, it's a weird thing. I owned the card for say 10 years. I don't own it now. I had my. Maybe I feel like I had my time with it. So I'll go get a different card of his and enjoy that now for the next 10 years. But think about Wayne Gretzky for a second. I've got four Gretzky rookies in my personal collection. They all kind of serve different purposes, but I have four different ones. Am I gonna ever get rid of them and just hold his second or third year card? Probably not. Like that's a card where. I don't think. I used to say everyone needs to have a Gretzky rookie. I don't feel that way anymore. I don't think you need to have it. I recently heard someone say everybody needs to have this card in their collection. Might have been a 48 leaf jockey. I don't think so. I don't think. I don't think you can say that everybody needs to own any single card. There are so many different ways we approach the hobby. Hobby Spectrum proves that. If you're not yet on the Hobby Spectrum, go to the hobby spectrum.com take the assessment, opt into the directory. David Chase had a preview earlier today of the upcoming features that are going to be deployed and it changes the whole Hobby Spectrum environment and what it does. So get in, get in on that if you're not yet there. But yeah. What do you think of what I said? Yeah, I think it's interesting. I. I wish I was more unshackled just like you. For me, I sometimes like to collect some players in sets that, that are interesting to me where they're not rookie cards. Like a weird card, like a dandy Bob Feller for some reason that resonates with me just because I think the dandy set's very cool and I wanted to have a couple of cards and I so I chose the Feller and Adobe to go along with the mantle. Right. I love that approach. You find a set. So I always go player first for me, player over everything. But if there's a set that I want a couple representations I want to build a flight or a pair you're going to go with play you're still going to then go to player you're not going to go to. Just the way the player looks on the card. I'm sure some people do that's fine type collectors maybe don't care about the player. Maybe they do. But whatever, whatever you do is fine. The other thing about non rookie cards is that like take Jim Brown for example. I could go buy a. And just to use grading, I can go buy a PSA 7 Jim Brown rookie for $6,000. I can also go buy a PSA 7 Jim Brown second year card for probably, I don't know what they're worth. Thousand bucks. Yeah, maybe six, seven, whatever. 500,000 bucks. Well, by. By unshackling yourself from needing rookie cards of all the players you love and want to collect, you save so much money, you potentially keep money in your pocket. And I think that's an attractive lane or approach in 2026 when cards are so expensive. So it's an alternative way to. And you stand out. You are not conforming to what everybody else is collecting, which to me is a little bit fun. You know, it's just fun. I like that too. Yeah. Find your own path. Find a path. Find a path. Yeah. So are we good with that topic? Can we move on to our final? Yeah. All right. All right. So that whole conversation was spawned out of Spawn, another super out of David's 1960. We need to find his rookie card too. Yeah, we do. His Spider man card. The other card that we're gonna go to is this one here. A 2004 Panini Sports Lionel Messi Mega Crack PSA9. This is not the most iconic messy rookie, but it's a. From the same year. Anyway, David, you wanted you, you have this card. Tell us what's, what's the topic that this card drives for us here today? I apologize to all the purists as I'm about to have this part of the conversation on the hobby spectrum. But this card is an interesting card. I, I about one and a half to three years ago I thought to Myself, I wrote a list, which I write a lot of lists of cards, of baseball cards and sports cards, about which cards I feel like are underappreciated in the hobby. And out of those cards I, I don't do this all the time. I've done this to probably about six or seven cards in my life, and this was one of them. Messi has four different 2004 panini mega cracks. That one that's the most popular is number 71. Ah, man, I tried to get that card. I was the second highest bidder probably at least three or four times in different auctions. And I still kick myself for missing out on that. But this is probably his second most iconic rookie card and I bought his other ones too. Numbers 2, 3 and 4. Basically, of these cards I cared about the grade, which I usually don't care about. But for me, I don't really have an emotional tie to soccer and to Messi, but I just thought, man, he's the goat of all goats. And I can't believe that there's a pop of like 2000 because there's two versions, Spanish and Italian and it's about 2000 altogether. And this card I just thought of was way undervalued. So I bought it. I bought at the same time just to kind of see where my head was at. A 1996 Chrome Kobe rookie, 2003 Chrome LeBron rookie. I was thinking those are kind of two goats that are mass produced rookie cards that, because I don't know the patch game and the one on one game, a couple of garbage pail kids, a high graded atom bomb and a nasty nick for those of you that know what that is. And, and then the Messi's. So those are the only ones I've ever done where I like I cared about the Slab. I wanted a high grade. All those other cards that I just mentioned pretty much doubled in price since I purchased them about a year and a half to three years ago. But this one has increased by six times the price from what I paid for it. I bought it in December of 2024. I bought it for. Man, I know I put it that to you in an email. I'll tell you. I bought it for 1500 bucks. It is now around nine grand. Wow. For that card. And I'm, and I'm thinking of it as that's. That's a 33 Gouty Ruth. Right? A low grade 33 Gowdy Ruth kind of card for that. And again, I have no emotional tie to that card. And and do I use that for some of my leverage? And it's a very kind of tough card to think about because we're right now at World cup time, national time, where probably this card is increased. Now this card last national went up to close to the same number that it's going for now. And then it dropped to like half that price right after the National. Now I think that some people were preparing for the World cup right now. This is most likely his last World Cup. It's probably a significant time to sell it, but I could also see that this card going absolutely crazy in 10 years from now. What, what's your thought on moving on a card like that? My honest thought, David, is that you might be a little bit late to selling it already here, like for, to, to max out. You're going to make money no matter what on the card. When you sell, you're going to have a positive return on your investment. But you, I think that you might have because like you said, the World cup is here basically. Right. And I think that I've even heard some chatter that a lot of these cards are, they're on the market now. People are now capitalize, they've been stockpiling and now they're starting to capitalize. And I think, I even think I heard that because there's more supply out there, the prices might be dipping a little bit from where they were even like a month ago. I don't know for sure. But this is, I remember seeing this somewhere. So if that's the case. But listen, you're going to do well on it no matter what. Will it be worth as much ten years from now? I mean, this is such a hard question to ask. I know. Answer. I think that I, I think that where the hobby's at right now, I think that, you know, fanatics, certainly a lot of people critical about a lot of aspects of what fanatics has done and, and all the sports and all this stuff. But I think they've done a really good job of growing and marketing the hobby, the industry of the hobby, the sales of cards. They've, they've, they're well on their way to 10Xing the hobby. I would say they're not there. I don't know where they are, what X they're at. Are they at? Are they at two, three, four, five or two and a half, three? Wherever they're at, I think they're on their way to 10Xing the hobby. I think they will. So with that said, like cartridge, they just keep going up what goes up must come down. Yeah, but when are, when is that going to happen? When will it be allowed to happen because of all the marketing going on. Lewis Hamilton's opening up a chain of stores internationally. We know what Tom Brady's doing. We know about Mr. Wonderful on the red carpet. There's a lot of mainstream. So I don't want to, I'm not going to give financial advice on when, when to sell a card. But if you did miss the boat on it, like the, the, the peak of the peaks, if you missed it like last month, what, 10 years from now? I don't know, man. Like, like. Well, I always feel all the money going to Wemby is coming out. I think a lot of that money is coming away from other players. The Wemby money is coming away from SGA and it's coming away from luca. It's coming away from all these guys that are highly collectible. Otherwise, what's gonna happen like Holland, Lamina Mall and whoever else is to come still in the next 10 years, are they going to take away or will Messi be up there with Gretzky and Tiger woods and Shohei Brady? Is he the go to goats as you said? I don't know what I would do is. I would ask myself. I wouldn't bank on the future, David. I would say, can I, like you were saying already, could I go buy a card I would, I will actually love, because this is not, this is not a, I don't think this is a PC holding it. This is not. David, as a, as a nostalgic collector, a bit of a precisionist, I think you're a hybrid on the, on the hobby spectrum because you are funding your collection with other cards. So like me, you're, you're doing some operating. You bought this as an operator. I did. Good for you. Good move. You're now going to have several thousand free dollars to go play with on the hobby. So on other cards you're going to love more, I would just weigh your options and decide what you want to do. It's interesting though, because it goes against my entire philosophy of the hobby where I'm trying to collect like great eye appeal low grade cards, right? This small lane that I have, I bought it because of the grade, right? I bought it because it was a high grade and a nine and same with the garbage pail kids. But go deeper. Why you bought it because. Why did you buy it because of the grade. I thought that the appreciation would be faster and it would have more margin on it. If I ended up going that route. But again, that's why I don't really love these cards, is because I don't love the plastic. And even my garbage pail kids that are in a PSA9, they're both a little off center, which always is like, silly to me because I'm like so into centering and it's the highest graded cards that I have in my collection. Right, so you bought it, you bought it because you thought it would be able to fund other cards down. I really think that's why you bought it. You didn't buy, you didn't buy it as a, as an investment. So you could buy it for a thousand, sell for five thousand and take four grand and go on vacation or put your kid through university. But, you know, I think you bought it for a thousand thinking, you know what, it's undervalued now, it'll go up more, which you were proven correct. You'll sell it for 5,000 or nine or whatever it is, take that profit and redeploy those funds into other cards you're gonna, that you're gonna love. So you are a collector. You are a hobbyist who collects as, as your dominant archetype being a. You know, you're, you're probably, you're. You came out as a hybrid on the hobby spectrum assessment, but that is more to the left. You're more to the left than you are to the right. You're more of a precisionist collector, because you're a precisionist collector, I would say. But you do utilize the operating as a way to help fund yourself. So you came out as a hybrid. I would wonder if you were to retake the assessment, which you're able to do every 30 days, if you would lean more precisionist now or at least lower within the band of hybrid. But I love that you do. I do this too. I mean, listen, there's no shame in playing the market a little bit because, listen, you're collecting, you're gaining experience, knowledge, you have skills in the hobby. Why not use those skills to further your own collection? It's what I do. So I've been doing for years. No shame in that. But I feel shame. I don't know why I think that I haven't had this conversation with most of my hobby friends because it's kind of embarrassing to me, as weird as it sounds. Are you. I think you might be feeling shame because of a lot of the sentiment out there. The anti operator, anti tycoon, anti selling cards. You know, we see the, the anti flipper sentiment out there, the anti dealer sentiment. You know, all that we see in, in chat on sports cards live and other places. I think content creators like you and me and our good friends gr. Our good friend Greg who does a lot of this talk, Tony, who talk like this as well. I think a lot of times we don't want to admit publicly that we fund our own collection with other cards or that we will, we will jump in and, and buy a card for. We think we can make a profit on. Down the road. I think we, we, we are. Like you said, it can be embarrassing. You don't want to admit it to the, to the audience. Ah. Do you? I'm, I'm, I'm not, I'm not. Yeah. Not going to say like, you know, f them or screw them or. No, no. That, you know, you can have your thoughts and opinions on me all you want. I don't really care. I care some, but I'm going to not care a lot because I'm going to do me. And if this is helping me buy more cards that I love, then that's great. I'm not taking money out of the savings account, you know, out of not boring against my house. I'm not putting it on a credit card. Nothing against that if that's how you roll. But for me, from a risk perspective and managing my finances, I'd much rather make money on some cards to buy that. I don't love to buy cards I do love. And if I can, like I did earlier on the show you saw with those bonds cards, if I can satisfy both at the same time. Oh, that's per. That's hobby heaven right there. Love it. Yep. All right. Bring on haters now. Yeah. Yeah. Let's hear, let's hear your comments below on all this. You can let me know if you don't agree with me. But by the way, when I did buy these cards, I was thinking I was going to hold on to them for like 10 years, but when one goes up six times the amount in a year and a half, makes me rethink things. Especially with this timing of what's going on in the market right now. Well, especially if you can buy cards you love for more because, yeah, I mean, I buy cards, I own them for a long time, they go up. I've owned cards that have gone up significantly in value. I don't necessarily even know they have. I don't keep my cards in a, in a system that values them for me. I use card ladder to death. But I don't use it to track the value of my collection. I don't want to know the value of my collection that way. And it's funny that you said that because only because I was preparing for this episode was the first time that I looked up pricing of anything besides this messy. But those other ones that I saw, that about doubled. I had no idea until I looked it up. Preparing for this. So interesting. Good chat, David. Thank you for being a part of the Sports Cards Live crew and join me here on the Hangover. Episode number five, I think. But you can count yourself. Everybody make sure you subscribe to the Sports card clubhouse. Make sure you are subscribed to Sports Cards Live, where you can get more content from myself and David Chase. And with that, good night. We'll see you guys. I love that song now. It's crazy. Hey.