The Sports Card Market Is Booming… But Can It Last?

We've got a special Jeff Wilson show today. I'm here with Jason Koontz, the founder of OTA Sports. He's been on our channel before, but man, is his business going well. He has grown a live streaming empire over the last couple of years that is now doing millions and millions of dollars a month worth of live selling of sports card products. We're going to talk all about that, but we're also going to talk about, about the sports card market. The heat of the market is this sustainable. He's been experienced for almost 40 years in the market, so he's got a lot of thoughts about where the market is going and where investment opportunities lie. So sit back and grab your popcorn. This is going to be a fun conversation. The Jeff Wilson show is brought to you by Arena Club, the official home of Slab packs. Now available every day, Slab packs offer an exciting way to collect graded cards with confidence. Plus, every pack comes with an instant offer to buy your slab. Don't miss out. Explore the latest Slab packs and more by downloading the Arena Club app. Just search Arena Club in the App Store and use promo code sci for 20% off your first purchase. Jason, this is wild. The last time I was here visiting you was a little bit over three years ago. And this building, which just to set the context for the people out there watching, this is a humongous building, two stories of just crazy, ongoing, ongoing warehouse. Three years ago, most of the building was empty. Now the building is full to the brim of live selling, studios and product everywhere. How did this happen? Well, so we bought a building this, roughly 25,000 square feet of something we thought we'd grow into over the next 10 years. And as you know, with cards that you expand quickly, we started bursting out of the seams here about two years in. So we have actually recently acquired another warehouse about 10 minutes from here to handle all the overload. So, yeah, it's way quicker than we ever could imagine. Obviously the hobby's, you know, doing really well. So yeah, we're, we're bursting at the seams here in a 25,000 square foot facility. Seriously bursting at the seams and obviously the heat of the hobby. So I guess the heat of the hobby has probably surprised you a little bit over the last few years. It surprised me. I've been, both of us have been very bullish about the hobby and optimistic and very invested in the long term growth of the hobby. But I'm not sure either of us would have predicted, you know, 2025 and 2026 to be as hot as they have been. And as you just said, you know, you thought you had 10 years in this building before you utilized all of it. Two years in, you're out of space. Yeah, I. We'd be all be lying if we thought we'd be in this spot right now. It's crazy. Obviously Fanatics has brought in like an insane amount of people and a lot of athletes and a lot of money's come in. I mean, this has grown at, I mean at least 100x of what I thought. I mean, this is crazy. Yeah, we're in some wild times and. And the future looks bright too. I think this is a lot different than the boom we had in, you know, right after Covid of 2021, a lot of people got in. I think they made some uneducated on just, you know, decisions. And it seems like this time around there's a lot more knowledge involved. People are buying the right stuff this time. So this one's definitely different, which I think is what's helped the boom continue is people aren't getting stuck buying, you know, base Prism cards that, you know, they still are, but they're buying the better stuff now. I think a lot more education this time around. You're seeing less speculation on the next Zion Williamson or John Moran and you're seeing more investment into rare 90s inserts and Kobe rookies and you know, flawless and exquisite and stuff of that ilk. 100% I agree. Yeah, it's, it's, it's. They're. They're buying the best of the best, they're expanding other stuff. You know, you see people carrying it like, personally, like I do like photo match jerseys and stuff like that. I was in video games you saw before. But they're. People are buying better stuff. They're buying quality versus like you said, you know, they were let's buy 5,000 Zion base cards before and that just. That wasn't it. And you were doing a little bit of that too. I mean, I was as well, right? We were both buying quantity. You've been around the game for a long time, so you, you were buying all kinds of high quality stuff as well, but you were playing a little bit of the let's buy 300 rookie cards of a particular guy. But that stuff, people laugh at that stuff now. They see the old videos of the photos, but that actually is what was working very effectively in 2019. 2020, 2021, as silly as it was. So I call it the Monday morning quarterback effect. Like on Monday after the football games, like everybody's the genius after seeing the games played out of like, you know, who should have beat who. And that's the same thing. Like if, if we could predict the future, we'd be billionaires and trillionaires. Like, we don't know. We are just going off our gut and we make a lot of decisions and hopefully, you know, we hit on a few of them big, which usually we, you know, you make, you do well on a few and then you miss on a bunch. And that's, you know, kind of where we're at that spot. So the million dollar question, or actually more accurately now the billion dollar question is is the heat of the hobby currently sustainable or do we have a cooling off period coming in our near future? It's a great question and I think it's both. I'm super excited that the world just keeps shrinking. And what I mean by that is I know a lot more people now that are just, they're going to China, all these other overseas. So the basketball market's obviously huge. A lot of that's because of China. We're seeing like world Cups going on right now. There's a lot of money coming in from, you know, the Middle east and where the soccer is hot. So I think with the cards and everything expanding worldwide, obviously our buyer pool just increases, you know, massively. So that's super exciting. I do think we'll see an adjustment at some point here is we, we have to, I mean, if we don't see a correction, it's just not healthy. But I'm really still bullish on the really good products. Like, I look at my inventory and it's like, would I rebuy this today at that price? And that's kind of how I'm always evaluating stuff. And if I have an item and I'm like, and I'm into something for 50,000, I look at it, would I pay 50,000 for this today? And if the answer is no, I'm probably going to move it. If the answer is yes, I'm keeping it. So I'm always, you know, revaluing my inventory not daily, but weekly, just seeing what I want to hang on to and what's time to move. That's a good way of looking at things. And right now, obviously we're going to talk more about your live streaming business that you build up. Obviously a lot of your purchasing is, is, is business purchasing for your live streaming business. But you've also always been a card investor and collector, you know, throughout your Whole, you know, decades now in the card industry as well. So I'm curious, has your, when you do kind of personal card buying or personal card investing, has your strategy at all changed in you know, the last couple of years based on kind of where the market is today? Yes, in the fact of I was always scared to pay the highest mark. Like no one ever wants to pay the highest comp ever. But when you look at that, people who've done that have done really well. Whether it's a three month wait, a six month wait or a year wait, if it's the, if it's the really high quality item, it's generally almost always going to do better. And in the past I've kind of wussed out on some items where I'm like shoot, I don't want to set the record and overpay for this. Which years later and you know, it was an, a massive home run. So now I'm starting to step up and really like if I love an item, I don't care if I'm making the new world record for highest comp because I, if I believe in something in five years it's going to be, you know, perfect example. I just bought a 99 Griffey game jersey auto PSA 10 to 24 inherited for 160,000. It's the highest, you know, I was going to go, whatever, like that's a car that I wanted, I think is so undervalued. Didn't mind being the highest comp ever paid because in my mind in a couple years or five years, like that's a half million, a million dollar card. Has your strategy changed at all? You talked a minute ago about the international expansion of cards. We've got cards, you know, we've got cards booming in Asia, we've got cards booming, really starting to build now in Europe. You maybe have a little bit of attention from the Middle east with you know, the amount they're investing into soccer now over there and of course F1 being global. Have you dived into any of those kind of different card markets thinking like maybe that's where we're going to get a lot of growth in the decades ahead? A little bit. But I've kind of been stubborn in where I'm at. Like I'm a just, I'm a Jordan, Kobe Bonds, Griffey, you know, I'm kind of in my lane. I've obviously started to accumulate a little bit of Otani, although his stuff's just gone crazy. I don't know how much room there's left on that. But. And then I'll speculate in some quarterbacks here and there for fun. Like I just look at his. I'd rather do that than, you know, like right now I bought a bunch of Malik Willis, probably going to lose my ass on it. But like, it's fun. Like, you know, when the season rolls around, if he has a good start, you know, just someone to root for, you know, it's like, it's kind of the Desmond Ritter effect. It's a Desmond Ritter. Yeah. People, people make fun of me all the time about the fact I bought those, you know, big Desmond Ritter cards. I enjoy doing it. I got my teeth kicked in and I, I knew that when I bought those cards. I said on camera about 80 times, I'm like, there's a, a high likelihood I'm going to get my teeth kicked in on these purchases. And I'm totally fine with it if that happens because it, it's, it was taking a chance. What's more funny about him though is even going farther back with the Will Greer being in the same draft as Kyler Murray. I don't even remember what the comment was, but like, I went heavy. It was during COVID I probably spent about a million dollars on Kyler Murray. My loss on KYLER Murray is 90% right now. So if you, if you would have chose to pick Will Greer, you couldn't have spent a million dollars. You could, you could, you could have spent like 30,000 and bought every single top end Will Greer card of all time. Which, by the way, I bought several of those. So. Yes, right. So the. So but to my point though is have even said that like Will Grim might be a better investment than Carl Murray. And the point is, I think what you're trying to say is the potential upside versus the loss. So like even if you spent 30,000 on Will Greer and they went to zero, I spent a million on Kyler Murray and they're probably worth 50 or 100 grand now. Yeah, a little bit of a revitalization now with Minnesota, but yes, you're, you're absolutely right. Compared to what they were during their Covid peaks. Yeah, it's fun. I'm in the position right now, of course, Michael Penck, I like backing my Atlanta Falcons quarterback. That may not work out either. Apparently. Now I need to start to buy two of cards and I'm sure that won't work out either. Then I'll have to go buy the next guy. So whatever it is. But it's a little bit Fun to do that. But yes, most of it. Kobe, Jordan, you're that, you're that kind of ilk. And that's been, I mean, that's been an incredible strategy the last couple of years. It's, you know, a lot of those types of cards are actually the ones that have gone up the most. Yeah. Jackie Robinson, obviously, everyone knows that I'm big on Jackie. It's, to me it's like an 80, 20 rule. It's like 80% what I think is just like the s and P500 and then 20% we're going to take shots. Yeah. And it's like if it all goes to zero, I don't care. I mean, I do care but like I've, I've mentally prepared myself to take that risk and I've had obviously some big hits with those too as well. So I'm okay with it. And it's fun. I'd rather, I'd rather do that than, you know, go bet on a football game. I'd so much rather be heavily invested because the reality is Malik Willis, it could go down 80% but like, he could also be amazing and he could. And I got someone to cheer for. I have someone to cheer for. There you go. You're going to go down to Miami, watch a game and, you know, cheer for your boy 100%. Yeah, there you go. Well, well, let's talk about the business side of what you're doing because this has just exploded. As I said at the beginning of the video, the last time I came out here a few years ago, this was all empty. And you were at that moment in time. I don't even, I'm not even sure you were in live streaming yet. Live selling. Or maybe you had just started in live selling, but that has clearly changed. You just told me as we toured around the building that you've got something like 30 or 40 live streaming setups that you can go. Yeah, we have 42 live streamers right now and our staff, we have 112 employees now, you know, with shippers and, and everything. So yeah, it's, it's turned into a massive operation. Yeah, I mean, I just kind of bought in. I saw what was going on in China with the live streaming. I probably missed the boat a little bit. Could invested in whatnot and you know, at the very beginning, missed the boat because I just didn't see it quite then. I, I was still stuck on, you know, eBay, seven day auctions until I thought about it in, in more depth and I realized Everybody's sniping everything anyways and all the bidding doesn't happen to the last few minutes. So once I kind of wrap my head around that, I was like, okay, like live shopping, it's just more fun too. It's, it's, it's that like social media just, you know, just instant gratification and I see something I want, boom, I can have it in 30 seconds. So, yeah, that business is scaled quickly and you've leaned in heavily. So OTA Sports, that, that's the brand that you, you know, have gone to market under. Now you got a bunch of different channels, but they're all kind of built around that. Yep. How when you, when you first started, how did you kind of work your way through to kind of figure out what like your niche was going to be like? What was going to work really well for you? Yeah, you lose money. I mean, you throw money at one situation and see what works. You lose money and then you kind of just, you know, find your, find your way. And we did singles, obviously. We got into repacks. We sell sealed wax, we open sealed wax. We sell by the box all types of stuff. I mean jerseys, anything sports related. We sell non sport Pokemon, you know, autograph memorabilia. It's, yeah, everything sports related or non sports related. We're, we're doing. As I've hopped into your channels on whatnot, I always, when I'm watching your channel, I describe it as like tons of energy, fast moving, a lot of like frenetic excitement maybe you know, kind of coming through my phone as I'm watching your channels. Right. Is that the, is that how you coach your people? Is that the spirit you want people to take? Or do you let everyone kind of take their own style? And it just so happens that that's been a style that a lot of your people have adopted. That's kind of how we train everybody. But like, the reality is we're an entertainment company. I mean when you're opening boxes or repacks, like everyone should know that it's, it should be done for entertainment. Like the, the odds of you sitting, opening tons and tons of boxes and, and make it a bunch of money. Of course you can hit that million dollar Paul Skeens card, you can hit a crazy card and repack. But the reality is, is we're an entertainment business. It's so much fun. People love it. We want to create a good fun environment. You know, late at night, people are in two in the morning, they're bored and you know, you want to have somebody who's excited about it and not sit there, you know, moping and boring about it. So, yeah, I think half of it's the experience. And then you do need a quality product, obviously, but yeah, it's just more fun when you get, you know, energy in the room. And with so many different streams now, how do you, how do you manage that? How do you, like, divide up what you're doing across these different streams to kind of give each stream its own uniqueness to draw people in? Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty removed from that now. I got managers and everything because we've grown so big and, and we, we just try to offer a little bit of everything. We have single shows, we have repack shows, we have wax shows, we have shows in the warehouse. We'll actually sell probably a thousand boxes over two hours, like doing 10 seconds sudden death for people to rip at home. So we just do as much as we can, you know, it's. And try to keep, you know, as many unique shows going as possible to keep, you know, people interested. I think if you kind of just stick with one thing over and over again, like it's going to die down. So, yeah, just mixing it up and catching the new trends as product comes out. How do you see the live streaming platforms? Like, how. Where do you see that going? Obviously, you guys obviously do a lot of whatnot. That's kind of your bread and butter. But you've got a. There's a lot of, you know, streaming platforms now. So, like in China, live streaming has been massive for 10 years. I think we're still like. I mean, if. I think if you went on the street right now and asked 100 people about live streaming, like five people might, might know about it if, if that. So I still think it's really early. I think it's exciting. Not just for car, just in general. I think in the next 10 years, people are gonna be buying TVs and coffee, everything. I think we're headed in such a live streaming world just because it's like that. I want it now. And it's just easy. Like once you understand, it's intimidating. So that was kind of what Rumi in the beginning is, is I was intimidated by it when I first saw it. But once you understand it and get in and you make your first per unit, get everything going, it's, it's, it's fun. I mean, yeah, I, I'm really bullish on live streaming. So you think more platforms in the future? It sounds, I mean, there's probably going to be a lot of continued investment in the market. Obviously you've got whatnot is the big guys right now, but ebay lives trying to quickly catch up. You got fanatics in there, you've got Tik Tok in there, you've got Walmart that's gotten into it. And I, there's, yeah, two and I, I can't really say they are, but there's two other massive players about to enter the hobby too in the next six months. So. And, and I expect in the next five years more and more people in the competition. And you know, the guys that do it right will end up being massive and then people will fade away and you know, I think we'll have two or three, you know, major, major players down the road. So. So I'm curious for people out there who are like, man, like this is exciting. You know, I want to build a base, you know, build a business in the hobby like Jason did. And look at all this stuff and all this craziness. Obviously, how did they start? You had 20 plus years of hobby kind of history. You cut your teeth, you know, going back to like when you were in high school. And by the way, Jason, we've done past interviews with Jason on the channel where he tells more kind of about his life story and how he got started. But going all the way back to high school, you were learning how to make a living in the hobby. Yeah, this is year 36 for me in the hobby. I mean 92. Yeah, whatever the math. Yeah. So yeah, I got in just past Griffey and right before Shaq. This is actually a great point to talk about. I'm kind of frustrated with like a lot of social media guys right now that they act like, you know, the hobby is booming. No doubt about that. But I see people talking all the time like how easy it is to make money in this hobby and it's just not true. Like it's, I mean yes, it's easier than some things, but like to spread that out there, that it's like, I think it makes people feel bad who are, you know, you see people doing these like, you know, they're at shows and they got 50,000 in cash, they're doing these big transactions and I think it discourages some people. They're like, what am I doing wrong? When the reality is like you asked me what, what, what I would do is like if I was just starting off the margins on a fifty thousand dollar card, you know, might be ten, fifteen, whatever, I would be grinding like the Dollar boxes. And I think you could go to a show with a few hundred bucks, and if you really grinded the dollar box, you could turn 300 bucks into 3,000 bucks. Like, there's so much value in that because people are so focused on the high end stuff. There's a lot of opportunity in the low level. And then just like I did, you start cheap and you learn and you build your way up and, and, and just don't get discouraged with these guys that are, you know, saying, you know, it's so easy. Because it's not easy. It's. It's still difficult. And the reality is, is the people that have hit. There's been a lot of misses. I mean, Ohtani, you see these guys showing Ohtani cards and Jordans and Kobe's and LeBron's, but for every one of those, there's a lot of guys that have, that have, have missed. And Jason Dominguez people, the 500 or $600,000 Jason Mingus sale a couple of years ago. I mean, so many people like that every year. Yeah, so I, you know, I've always showed off my misses, and I think it's really important for people to see that because I think I know what I'm doing. And like, for me, I've had some great hits, but, like, to have my misses, I think it helps show people that, you know, if Jason had misses, like, I'm gonna have misses. And it's like, that's the reality of it. And it's not all, like, you know, amazing. And everyone's, you know, got rollies and Lambos and, you know, just cash getting thrown around at shows. Like, that's not necessarily the reality. It's. It's a small reality. So the, the one thing that worries me about where the sports card market is right now is I do think there are a lot of people that have a little bit of that free money mentality and they're being pulled into the market for that reason. And I feel like that's exactly what we saw happening during COVID as well. I think it's especially true right now in Pokemon with how nuclear Pokemon's gone. I think there's a lot of people that are attracted in just for the flip. And what we saw during COVID was when you get to the point in the market where it's flippers selling to flippers selling to flippers selling to flippers, and there's not the end collector who's willing to pay that final elevated price for the card to actually end up with that's where you got to be a little cautious. I think within sports cards, I still generally feel okay, because I still. I know there's still a ton of end collectors that are buying a lot of those really awesome cards that are going off for, you know, big money that you see right now. I'm not as sure about Pokemon. I think you've got a lot of flippers in there that are causing this rapid price escalation. And I hope there's enough, you know, end collectors buying all those cards at the top. It definitely creates a false sense of, like, I'm really good at this. When all you have to do is buy something, hold it for four months, and then you sell it for more because it's gone up. Like, you feel like a genius. And until it doesn't, until you hold something for six months and it's cut in half. That reality may has not happened for people yet in the last couple of years. Like, if you just. If you got in and 20, 23 after the last kind of dip and you've just bought and you bought, you held and you did well, like, it's just, you know, it's pretty easy. And it look like a genius right now. You look like a genius. And also when you. I kind of divide up, like, there's three types of people, which unfortunately, the one that there's the least amount, like maybe like 5% is like the true collector, the guy who all they care about is the card. Like, they want the prices to be cheap so they can build their collection. And then I think what we've accumulated more over the years is what I call the collector slash investor, who's basically buying to flip, but only to use that money to fund their collection. I think we have a really high. And then you have the person who doesn't care at all, and they're just in it for the money. Like, I fall in the category of collector slash investor. And like, I'm just. Everything I make, I'm funneling back into more collectibles shit. Like, I mean, so. Because that's my entertainment. So I think the person who just is in it for the money, like, okay, whatever. That's. That's going to be every business. But I think it's cool to see all these people come in and, you know, they want to just keep making money to fund. To fund their, you know, their passion. So. But I do think we've gone away from just the pure collector of just, you know, they don't care about anything other than accumulating their sets and in their collection. I mean, cards are so valuable now that I think, especially if you're getting to the high end, you have to, you have to pay some attention to, you know, the values and what the. What's this card worth maybe in five or ten years from now? I think it's. I don't know, people romanticize, like the pure collector who. I'm just in it for the cards and not the money and everything like that. And like, I love that. And look, there's certain cards that I buy, like my whole Tim Tebow collection that, you know, I'm not, I'm definitely not in that for the money. I'm in that for the cards. But I think that there is absolutely nothing wrong and I would encourage it that if you're going to be buying expensive cards, you should absolutely also be. Be thinking about it in terms of the money side of as well. Like, there's nothing wrong with that. And the thing that I think is amazing about cards is that you can marry the two together. You can truly invest in what you love in cards. A hundred percent. I think it's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, I. I agree. I agree 100%. I mean, that's, that's the way to go. And in terms of flipping to fund your collection, I'm a perfect example of that because I went very heavy a couple of years ago on Wemby. Yep. Tons of Wemby cards. And I sold during the playoff run that he just had. I sold about $100,000, maybe a little bit over $100,000 of WEMBY cards that I had in my collection. I currently have two. There's currently a couple items up for auction right now on Golden. I won't say what they are because I don't want people to outbid me. But there's a couple of big items up for sale on golden that I got leading bids in at this moment. That would be big Items. That, that $100,000 plus that I sold a Wemby is going to immediately funnel in tomorrow to. To one of those two items if I win either of them. They're both six figure items. And so that's. That's what I did. I was like, in fact, the reason why I actually bid on those items was I'm like, well, I just sold over $100,000 worth of WEMBY cards and killed it on those cards. I was up like 5, you know, 5x. And I'm like, so why not take my profit and go buy one of these big Cards that's up on auction right now that I otherwise wouldn't have probably bought right at this moment. Yeah. And mentally it's easier. Like when you're bidding on six or even seven figure cards. Knowing that, like, all I got to do is send this auction house a bunch of cards as in lieu of payment that they can auction for me versus writing a check. It makes it easier to, you know, hit that next bid. Yeah. On an item you really want. Yeah, absolutely. It's. It's a lot of fun. You've got the Jackie Robinson still, right? Yeah, well, it's the. One of the Grail cards, the PSA 9 of the 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson. Not interested in late night, is it? Yeah, yeah. It's been crazy. I was gonna say. You know what's interesting? The not true with every vintage card, but some vintage has not. I feel like it hasn't gotten as much attention in the market over the last couple of years. The 52 mantle has continued to go up for sure. But I feel like outside of maybe the 52 mantle and maybe the 48 Robinson and a couple of the most most iconic vintage cards, I feel like vintage has actually been kind of the quieter, like more sleepy, not going up as much part of the market where you've seen all these, you know, all 90s inserts and, you know, all that stuff's just right. And I kind of almost wonder. There's a little bit of opportunity in vintage because if you go back to a few years prior, it was. It was vintage that was ripping up in the market while ultra modern and modern were really struggling. I've purposely laid low about talking about it just because I've been accumulating like crazy. There's just so much opportunity. There's so many things that just don't make sense in this hobby. And generally it all eventually play out like there's no reason like, you know, some Tyreek Maxi gold card should be the same price as a Mickey Mantle. And whatever the thing is, like, it just. You look at two price. I saw something the other day of a Brady Contenders auto sold for the same price as some Camward gold. And it's just like, it's stupid. It doesn't make any sense. So I think same thing with vintage. Like, I mean, obviously I've. Jordans have actually started to get some love. They have Jordan, like the Jordan 84 Star 86 Flir. That stuff has. Has really rocketed up recently. Yeah. So that's. That's getting love and it should get a Lot more love. But yeah, there's vintage cars right now that I'm just keep accumulating and targeting that I think are so undervalued. Especially when you compare it to like what the value of the money is of just the way people are just tossing around 10, 20, 30 grand. Like I look at some of the things that you could buy at some point it needs to correct because it just doesn't make sense. And I just look at it like the same way you would stock. Like if a company's doing really, really well and you can buy the stock cheap, like you might need to wait for the consumer to catch up and realize. And using our hobby, that happens quick. It's like someone will talk about it and they'll start looking at pops or conditions of, of how long, you know, how many tens or nines of a product and then it'll just click and then overnight people will say oh wow, that's like really undervalued. Then you'll see stuff just, you know, skyrocket. So I think there's some opportunity still in vintage. That's kind of where I'm always, you know, parking money. Yeah, I think there's, I like that theory. What about other forms of collectibles? So I know obviously cards have been a big part of your life, but you mention game worn. You know we've talked about that before. I know you've kind of gotten into some game worn jersey stuff. You've got sealed video games. I remember we showed that when we, when we did a tour of your collection on a previous video. Are you, are any of those other sectors, are you as bullish on any of those or more bullish than you are on cards right now? I mean I'm really bullish on photo match game jerseys. It's, I mean the prices are starting to get absurd. So like, you know, it's not a hidden secret anymore when you see some of these prices. But a few years ago like it didn't make sense. I mean to buy a card with the cut up jersey that wasn't even from a real game and you could buy the whole jersey for the same price. Like it's another thing. It's just stupid. Like it doesn't make any sense. So I bought in a lot of cool photo match jerseys stuff. The prices are starting to get up there but there's still some opportunity. Like I just bought a couple Aaron Judge rookie jerseys that I just, you know, the price, they were like 40,000, 45,000. Like to me for a rookie Aaron Judge game Warren Jer that hit home runs in, like, that's silly cheap, in my opinion. Just bought a Kate Cunningham jersey. Photo match to five games. Like, you know, just stuff like that, I think is. It's just cool, too, because it's, you know, it's piece of history. You know, he wore the jersey and it's different than a card, you know, it's a piece of memorabilia the person, you know, wore in a game. Like, it's. So I, I, I, I see a lot of opportunity in that, but the prices are definitely catching up. Yeah. Cool. Awesome. Well, it'd be fun to keep an eye on the market. Let's wrap up with. Where does this all go? What. What's next for oto? What can people out there expect to see? Yeah, I mean, it seems what we're doing is right. We have a massive following. We just keep kind of scaling what we're doing. We're live, you know, on several channels, 24, 7, maybe other platforms eventually, and just keep scaling it up, trying to offer better and better products. And it really just comes down to me, like, buying, you know, bulk deals and collections. The. The better we can buy in bulk and get better pricing, the better we can kind of pass along to the consumer. That's obviously always the goal. So, yeah, it's fun. I mean, this is, you know, my kids are getting into this now, too, obviously. Like, I'm. I'm more focused on collecting, and let's let the guys handle the business. And I pop into the office, you know, once or twice a week to see what's going on. And my son's 9 years old, and, like, him and I are going to do a whatnot stream together. That's great. So, like, that's, like, kind of what I live for now. Like, he's so excited, so that's a thrill. Yeah, that's kind of stuff, and that's kind of what I care about now. That's awesome. Yeah. Good, man. Well, it's good to catch up with you, Jason. Good to see you. Congrats on all the success of your business. Thanks, Jeff. All right, guys, I hope you enjoyed the episode. Don't forget that these full videos of the Jeff Wilson show are, of course, available on YouTube under the Jeff Wilson show, but they're also on Spotify and Apple podcasts. So make sure you are subscribed to the Jeff Wilson show everywhere, and we'll see you soon with our next one. Take care.