The WNBA Card Podcast: Connecticut Sun Team Collecting, Family Memories, and the End of an Era with Steve (showley2003)

Foreign. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the WNBA Card Podcast hosted by my good friend Caitlin at Cold Lunch Cards here on the Stacking Slabs Network. We are in the thick of the W season. The collecting is at an all time high and it is so awesome that this show is here to share the stories of the people behind the scenes building out incredible collections and Caitlin has charted this path. She is talking to someone from every team in the WNBA who collects and I have really enjoyed this series. And today she's got Steve S. Howley 2003, who is a passionate Connecticut sun fan. I've been listening to Steve on shows for a very long time and it is awesome that he has joined Caitlin in this episode. Ton of passion, ton of knowledge, ton of insight, ton of energy. Make sure you're following us at the WNBA Card pod on the Instagram machine. If you want to show your support for the broader Stacking Slabs Network, hit the follow button. Tell a damn friend. Run on over the Patreon Group. We're talking Connecticut sun with Steve. Let's get into it. Welcome back loyal listeners, the Stacking Slabs Podcast to season five, episode four of the WNBA Card Podcast. My name is Caitlyn. I go by Cold Lunch Cards because I carry my cards in a lunchbox. And sometimes you can find me on Instagram, you can find me on X, you can find me on all these different places, but you can find me here today with Steve at Holly 2003. And today we are super, super excited to bring more collector driven and community focused content to your headphones, your radio, to wherever you're listening to us today. I really appreciate you guys tuning in. This is our third iteration, all about team collecting across the WNBA league. And today we're talking all about a very special franchise, something near and dear to Steve's heart, the Connecticut Sun. So that's the focus of today's episode. Before we get into it, I want to give Steve the opportunity to introduce himself to those of you that might not know him. If you don't know him, it's time to get familiar. Steve, why don't you introduce yourself? Awesome. Kaitlyn, I really appreciate you having me here tonight. So yeah, I'm Steve. I go by sholley2003 on Instagram. People like to call it as Sholey, but I'm on Instagram. I've been there forever. That's my primary source of connecting with the hobby. Yeah, Connecticut son. I'm a basketball collector. I grew up a die hard Celtics fan. My grandmother introduced me to the the team back in the 80s and I've been following professional basketball since then, collect with my kids and that's really, we can get into that a little bit. So I'm a father of two kids and that's going to be a big part of the story that I share tonight. But it's really how, how and why I connect to the sun is, is the ability, the accessibility that you can have for families. And yeah, as you said, it's the sunset season. So this will be an interesting discussion I can quickly introduce. I'm from the Boston area. I am in my mid-40s so like most people my age, collected as a kid, junk wax era, got out, got back into the hobby around 2012 when I had a very early midlife crisis and I went on Amazon and bought a box at 92 Stadium Club, hit a Michael Jordan Beam team, which I wish I kept but pulling that card, just, just opening a pack of cards and I as a kid could never afford a hobby box, right? So I opened a hobby box for the first time ever. It has been, I don't know if you call it a downhill slide or an uphill gain since then. But outside of this I, I work in public education. I'm mental health professionals. I've been doing that for 20 years now and like I said, live with my, my kids just outside Boston. My wife and really the WNBA has become my, my primary source of enjoying basketball. I really, really enjoy the product of the WNBA more than the NBA. And I think that'll be a little bit of, kind of why I share the different perspectives of collecting today. But yeah, excited for this conversation. This will be fun. This is going to be awesome. I'm so excited. I feel like I've been following you, Steve, for a long time now and your collection is one that I just, I find super special. I think the Connecticut sun are a special franchise. I think they have an interesting story, interesting origins, all of that. And I'm excited to unpack your story. So why don't we kind of tip off today's episode to explore your personal fandom identity, how you got here, where you're going and, and the opening question that I want to pose to you is kind of take me back to the beginning of it all. When did you first become a Connecticut sun fan? When was that kind of starting? So I've always followed women's basketball, right. In my first job out of college, I worked with a die hard Yukon Huskies fan that would have been in the early 2000s and back then Caitlin, I Don't know if you're anywhere near my age, but I mean when I was in high school and college the must watch thing was ESPN SportsCenter. And so I remember little Lisa Leslie Dunk, you know, highlight from 02 and. But I was never regularly following the WNBA until the pandemic. And I think the WNBA did an amazing job of marketing themselves when other sports are going down. And so you actually had some professional sports other than like beanbags to watch, you know, D while everything was shut down. So that really got me into it and then I'm someone that needs a connection to like to really grab me in. And one of my favorite Celtics of all time to watch as a kid was D. Brown. And his daughter unfortunately just got cut by the storm. But Lexi Brown was initially drafted by the sun back in 2018 and in 2021 she was on the Chicago sky. And that was sort of my entry point to really watching the WNBA on like a, like a fan basis and like investing in a team. So Lexi brought me to the Chicago sky for a season and as I got more invested in the wnba I was like, I got to get to a game. So right place, right time. I took my then 5 year old daughter down to Uncasville, Connecticut. Didn't know who I was going to see. And we happen to see in 2022 the sun versus the Aces, which would have been a, a preview of the Finals. Right. So talk, literally talk about the Right. And, and that was my entry point into the Connecticut sun, why I became a fan of them. Accessibility, right? It's, it's the, the sport is more accessible than the Dublin, than the NBA. Rather I could take my 5 year old daughter to the arena down there and trust that she'd be safe going to the restroom because I'm, you know, I'm obviously male, not going to go to the women's room with her. And she was too old to go to the men's room. So it was just something that I could start to build habits and memories of my family. So I bring my kids down. My mom loves the sloths, so she would come down and treat us to dinner because the sun do play out of a casino. So it just really became part of like a family routine. And I work, I'm off in the summer. I mean I work part time in the summer, but I have the summer off. So we could just hop in the car, buy tickets and head on down there. And so from that point on it was just the sun became part of our just, just Our DNA as a family. It's pretty devastating that they're leaving, but we'll get into that in a little bit. I know I don't want to open that wound to open it up, but I guess you kind of answered my secondary question. But I do find it interesting that at one point you were following the sky kind of from a player perspective, and then you transitioned into the sun. And you talk about accessibility. When you say accessibility, are you talking geographical location? Is that what kind of drew you in? Because, I mean, there's other teams over on the east coast that you could go see. Why? Why the sun? Yeah, geographic for sure. So it's only a 90 minute drive of sort of back roads and highway to get to Connecticut from Boston. There's really no traffic. It is something that, like I said, there's plenty of restaurants going to a casino, even though they play in the middle of nowhere. But accessibility also, as in it's easy to navigate the arena. Like if you go to the TD Garden and you're there at halftime, you're fighting through crowds, you're standing in line. So as a father, you know, my wife would be at work taking my two young kids that at the time would have been, let's say I took them when they were 6 and 3. Being able to get to your seats easily, get to food, to be up close to the players, to have social media that like, I feel comfortable with them following, like watching with me highlights and stuff like that. I just find it to be a more accessible and family friendly brand than say the NBA or the NFL. And also financially too. I can take my family for under 100 bucks. Right. And it's free parking and it's just eat. Right. And I can get food court food for my kids that I want to. It's. It's not a three to four hundred dollar venture every time. So, yeah, I mean, I think you could make the argument that you could come out in the green from going to a sun game. If you stop by the casino there, you could come out making money instead of spending it. But I diverge. I diverge. I guess I'm curious to hear kind of when your fandom elevated. Right, right. Because I think that, you know, obviously going to one game and seeing the aces, that's something that can pull you in. But when did it kind of become something so core to your sports identity? I suppose. And, and how would you say it's kind of strengthened over time? I'd say it was really the, the following off season. So after 2022, we went to our game, and I'm sure someone you're friends with as well is Carter MC basketball cards. I. I was messaging him a lot being know more about these, These. These WNBA cards. And like, what. What's this, you know, state of the league, you know, this woman Asia that you talk about. Carter just destroyed my son in the Finals. I didn't even know they were good enough to get to the Finals. I'm just learning about the franchise and him and I went back and forth. That was when they traded John Quell Jones, requested a trade out of Connecticut over to New York. And him. And I remember specifically talking with him about this might mean they. They blow it up. Maybe dejuana Bonner goes, maybe Alyssa Thomas isn't long. Maybe she signs elsewhere. And he. He really encouraged me to look into Breonna Jones. And so she became sort of my favorite player to start the next season. And then she blows her Achilles and then Alyssa Thomas steps in. And I would argue in 2023, and I know Garrett said this in his episode about the Phoenix 2020. She was the MVP of the league in 2023, in my opinion. I mean, she stepped into a role and took over that team, and that's the type of player that can just energize a fan. So as a lifelong basketball fan, seeing a star, I think, really emerge herself as a top five player in the league and bring her team deep into the playoffs. And the sun had that run, had a 2022 through, you know, 2024 run that, as a newer fan, was just a very dynamic, you know, run to watch. And also, I'm a big. I am a big fan of Panini. I like a lot of what Panini does. So the fact that Panini was strengthening their brand as a collector, I now have this team that I'm going to all these games to. I'm learning the players. I'm loving the players, and they're releasing cards that align with the style of collecting that I like. So it just. When I say right place, right time, as a fan, it was just the right place and right time for me to come in and. And really become a fan of the WNBA and have a team to latch onto. Yeah, that's super cool. It sounds like kind of your. Your fandom. And I'm. And I'm kind of guessing here, but it sounds like your fandom of Connecticut sun ran in parallel with your Connecticut sun card collecting. And did. Did. At any point did you kind of like, go, wow, now I'm A Sun collector. I'm not just a fan of this player or a fan of this league. Was there a kind of a turning point where you said, wow, I'm a sun. A Connecticut sun collector? Yeah. It would have been around that same time, Right. Those coming out of 2022, I was looking for a play and I. My collecting tends to be player focused. So even as like a Celtics collector, I'll collect a lot of Al Horford cards or Paul Pierce cards. I won't collect the whole roster. Right. But I don't find that way with the wnba. So I started with Brianna Jones, and Dwana Bonner was just a fun player to watch. Right. So I loved watching those players. So I was picking up, wow, I could get a Brianna Jones prism gold for 25 bucks because Jason Tatum prism gold's gonna be 250. Right. So I was that newer WNBA player that was applying like, NBA logistics to my collecting. It's like, well, this is so cheap. I'll just buy it all. Yeah. But I didn't. But that was like, how I looked at it. What ended up happening was this was the first team in my entire life that was growing while my family was growing. So my daughter's favorite player was Dijonay Carrington, right. Which then her little brother, who wants to look up to her. I want to know all about DJ Carrington. Then Brianna goes down Alyssa Thompson. So I ended up learning just collecting more of the roster as a result. So it really was that 2023. And then Dijonay really kind of came out in 2024, sort of took over and cemented her position in the league. So that being said, there are players that I won't collect. So I have to have a connection with the player I have. Sorry, Notre Dame fans out there. Brett. I have no use for Marina Mabry. I don't enjoy watching her play. She's just not the style bat. So I don't. Other than a few team sets, I never went after Marina Mabry card even when she was the best player on the team. So I have to have a connection. But my kids introduce more connections. So if that helps make, you know, answer your question. Yeah, I think that's totally valid about Mabry too. I think everybody has their own cup of tea, and not every flavor is for everybody. And she's a. She's a acquired taste. That's like the nicest way I can put it. But yeah, I think that's totally valid and it makes sense. And I kind of identify with that same kind of concept of like needing something to attach to in order to collect a card. And so it feels good to hear that kind of said so eloquently. I want to hear from you. I suppose, you know, as we go through this season, we're talking to collectors from all different teams. And one of the things that I'm trying to tease out is kind of what makes each franchise distinct other than the players, other than, you know, the things that we see on the court. What kind of, what would you say makes the Connecticut sun franchise distinct from the rest of the teams? The big one is the Yukon connection, right? And so when you go to a game, there's a very unique atmosphere to a Connecticut sun game where there are die hards. So Caitlin, when I say they play in the middle of nowhere, they play in the middle of nowhere. I mean, you can't get there easily. The nearest airport's Hartford, which I still think is like 45 minutes to an hour away. You're driving through woods and all of a sudden this is Emerald City of a casino. So there are, there's this die hard group of just local people that are probably within a one hour radius that have been going to Connecticut sun games just because Connecticut loves women's basketball. And they've been going and they've been season tickets for since 2003 when the team came in and they know each other and they, it's just, it's their, it's their atmosphere, it's their family, it's their friends. Then you add in the people that are fans of maybe not the wnba, but Yukon. So then you go and you'll have, you know, you'll see the collegiate jerseys of. And so Seattle comes in and there's Yukon players on Seattle. And all of a sudden you'll see those play. So you'll have this younger group of Yukon Husky fans mixed with this die hard, then driving through the woods an hour every, every summer to go see, go see the sun. So it's a very unique blend of collegiate sports driving fandom, but also just this, like it's the only show in town. People just love women's basketball in Connecticut. So it's, it's just an atmosphere you wouldn't see elsewhere because you know, you go out to la, there's a million different things to be a fan of in la, even though they have great women's basketball programs. Right. So the, the whole Connecticut system is just a little different in that way. That's, that's super interesting. And it's kind of, you know, reminding me of what I heard on last episode with the Fever episode where Mitch was talking about how the state culture of basketball in Indiana is just different or whatever they say as like their slogan, but that's basketball. It feels like Connecticut might have women's basketball on hold there. So I would make the argument. And the other thing that I find interesting about what you said is kind of this concept of like a pipeline or a farm system comparable to like a minor league team where it's like in the MLB of minor league teams and then you follow the players up. And I know that obviously if you go to UConn, you're not guaranteed a spot on the Connecticut Sun. But that kind of like built in fandom that comes in, I don't see that anywhere else. I don't see that in any other franchise, at least not today. And so I find that super interesting. I was wondering if maybe you could touch on the tribal aspect of the Connecticut sun, if you could shed any light on that. Because if you do have knowledge of that, that's something that I find isn't talked about too much and has had wild implications when we talk about franchise relocation and sunset season. So maybe if you could speak to the tribal element. Yeah. So just a quick background. So in New England, we have several tribes that have lots of land that are not owned by the state, they're owned by the tribe. And many of those tribes have built casinos. So they have independent ownership over the plots of land. They built casinos. And when the NBA was getting away from the sister league program and dissolving teams like, I don't know, Houston Comics, let's say, they didn't want a team anymore, the tribe stepped in and became the first independent owners in league history. And they bought the Orlando Miracle and they brought them up to Connecticut. And I honestly think they've been great stewards for the league. Have they out, has, have we outgrown Uncasville, Connecticut with the wnba? Absolutely. But did they do right by the WNBA for over two decades? Absolutely. It's kind of, it's very powerful being in the arena because they do a great job recognizing the tribal history and doing in a very respectful way. But they have, I think, I don't want to stutter with my words too much, but they really have used the WNBA as a way to just enhance the wealth of their casino, really. So it's given them another thing to bring people in. It's a multi use arena, so they have concerts and comedy shows there. But yeah, they've been, they're very respectful owners. I, I get the sense that they, they don't get involved with basketball operations much. So I think the front office and the president are allowed to do what they, they want to do, which I think is why they've been able to build some pretty sustainable success over the two decades. So they really just bought the team as an investment. They brought them up and they said, what do you all need to be successful up here? And they for two decades owned a team that just was pretty much a well oiled machine. I mean they had some lean years, but they made it to four finals appearances in two in less than two decades. So, you know, they were doing something right. And I've never heard a complaint about ownership other than the facilities just aren't what, you know, professional women deserve. You know, in this day and age is really the most recent challenge for sure. Thanks for like kind of bringing that color to light. I find it so interesting. Like I. When the, when the news broke that the sun were kind of relocating or whatever they're calling it, just ending, I suppose it's, it was really a shame to hear just because of that tribal aspect like that alone. If you take away the fandom, obviously there's lots of die hards, et cetera, et cetera. Just that leaving the sport and leaving professional sports in general, I think is such a loss for the wnba. And so I just was curious to see what your thoughts were, I guess on, on that. But we'll get into more of like the sunset season. I want close out like this segment about personal fandom and identity by asking you a question I've asked each of our guests, which is if you had to take on the hard challenge of describing the Connecticut sun kind of franchise and fans in three words or less, could you do it? And if you did, could you share it? Yeah. So I'm going to cheat a little bit. I'm going to use my b, my bad boss and accent and I'm going to use the word coulda. And my, my three words is what could have been. And what could have been is I told you I was going to cheat. But in Boston, could have really is just one word. It's coulda. And for two, two purposes. One, I don't love the direction that the WNBA is going in with going back to more under the umbrella of the NBA. I, I think there's a spot for independent ownership and having embraced that and maybe tried to foster that growth in the league, I think could be very sustainable for the growth. So what could have been if we push more towards continue with independent ownership and then what could have been a dynasty for Finals appearances. And they just, whether it be Whalen's injury back in the early 2000s or running into Asia Wilson, they could just never get over the hump. But they really, you know, unfortunately, they're more of the Buffalo Bills than the, you know, the Aces right now. But yeah, that's my cheat of a three word. And when I heard that on, I haven't listened to the most recent episode, but I listened to Garrett's episode, I was like, well, I gotta get ready for that one. That's a tough one. I like the direction you took it. And instead of three kind of like adjectives or describing words to pick out kind of a phrase, I really like that. And I think it totally encapsulates kind of, I don't know, you can say the entirety of the sun existence now. You can say that. So, yeah, that's a. It's a really good categorization. Before we kind of zoom into your personal collection strategy, I want to zoom out for a second. I kind of want to give you the opportunity to talk about maybe what women's sports means to you more broadly. Take out the Connecticut sun and just replace it with women's sports. A lot of what this season is about is about cultivating community around, quote unquote, a niche space of the WNBA and of women's sports, I guess. Do you have any thoughts or would you like to share any thoughts about what women's sports means to you personally? Yeah, I have a lot, so I'll try and be succinct with this it1. So I've used the term accessibility. I think women's sports, both at the amateur professional level, they just do a better job of marketing themselves. They're more available. You get to know their personalities better. I think what just use WNBA as an example, what they do with their own fashion, their brand, their music and how they market themselves because they've had to, right? They don't. They're not coming in as a rookie making 6 million. They have to. They've learned how to make other sources of income. And I think it was actually Lexi Brown and her podcast pointed that out is that's why it's such a marketable. They're marketable individuals because they've had to learn how to do that. So I think accessibility of getting to know the athletes is such a beautiful part of sports, and it's not just about the competition. I also think if you Open your eyes to women's sports. You're going to, if you're a sports fan, you're going to find more sport that you enjoy watching. So if you're a soccer fan, Godspeed. If you want to try and follow the Men's, the U.S. men's program, or you could follow the women's program, which is a much more dominant brand of soccer and they actually win and they qualify for tournaments. So like, let's go women. I, I've said it before, I think the WNBA and in the women's brand of basketball is a much better. I, much as I watch every Celtics game, I'm pretty frustrated with, I find the NBA relatively boring compared to the wnba. And then the most important thing is my kids are going to grow up, both my son and daughter are going to grow up knowing dad always has a basketball game on. They don't know there's a difference between the women and the men. They think they're on equal footing, that it's a fit level platform. I've started, my daughter's become more interested in why doesn't Dijonay Carrington make as much as Jason Tatum. So we've been having those, the talk with the discrepancies and the respect. But as far as like the value that we put into women athletes and therefore women, my kids don't know the difference. Men and women are on the same platform. That is essential to me as a parent to make sure that they see everybody in our society as equals. And so I use sport as a, as a purpose for that. And we've gone to more WNBA games than we have Celtics games. And they're just as exciting and it's just as wonderful for them. So that's really my current drive behind, you know, promoting women's sports as a person. That's beautiful. I, I, I hope people take that to heart because that's just like, it means a lot to me to hear that, you know, like little me hearing that would be completely different person, I think, than, than what I was. So that, that's pretty cool. And I think hopefully more people are embracing that kind of mentality as we move forward. Speaking of moving forward, let's move to our next segment, which is all about your PC. You know, what we're here to talk about today is Cards. We kind of started with the Connecticut sun, but I guess I want to talk about your approach to collecting those players and collecting the team. Do you kind of have a philosophy that you subscribe to and is it different than, say, in Other categories that you collect. Yeah, it's much different. And when we think about it, Caitlin, when we think about coming as a lifelong collector coming into the W space the last, you know, five, six years, what is different about this space is the release schedule and the products that are out there are much different. Yes, Prism is Prism, but you might only have one. Sometimes only one. Now reps like four or five products to choose from. So whereas in other categories, maybe select isn't a go to brand. Hey, in the W, Select's pretty cool and some good stuff to offer. And now we finally have on card autos. I previously would have never been a sticker auto person, but that's all you had in the wnba. So how do you navigate what auto sets you want? So it's a much different. And I feel like every year, because Panini's been adjusting their approach, every year my approach has had to adjust as a result. Right. So you come in if it's just Prism. All right, everybody go get your Prism Gold. Maybe the Mojo and whatever. Personally, what I tend to do is I'll find one or two sets that I really like and within those, like a parallel. So I like, I like the mojos out of 25. Sometimes I like the white sparkles. And I'll do a team set, right. So I did the black Velocity team set for the 2020. I can't even remember the release schedules at this point. 2024, prism. I did the black Velocity sun team set. And then for the players I love, I'll grab a couple of premium cards. So I've got a couple of Alyssa Thomas, you know, Prism Golds. I've got, you know, her Optic Gold. So I'll get the premium cards for the players that I think are, you know, quote unquote, my team's goats or the players that I love watching the most. But I, I generally just try to get like a team set to recognize my fandom for that season. I love these players. I love watching them. Let me put a few binder pages together of relatively low cost team sets. Yeah, it's just like pure unadultered collecting, especially in the wnba. I think like in the WNBA card collecting space, the financial burden of doing team sets is just so much more attainable than other segments. And that doesn't make it worthless. Like to put together, it's still meaningful. And I think it's, it's a really powerful way that if people haven't collected from a team perspective before, it can be really like, it can feel like a Connective tissue between you and your team. Like, it's. It's really powerful. So to hear you kind of talk about it is interesting. And I suppose. Do you have any kind of, like, hard, fast, steadfast rules of, like, this will not enter my collection. I heard you mention, you know, she who shall not be named before. Um, but, like, is it generally just, like, players that you don't quite connect with? That's kind of the only rule that you have? Or are there any other guardrails you set up to kind of operate in your headspace of collecting? No. No. And with. And with the. Because I've been. I mean, big picture, I've been rotating more of my collection to W stuff. And so that means I've been selling off some NBA stuff. And NBA stuff sells for more than W stuff. So I've had some more funds available over the last few years. And like you said, for the most part, the WNBA stuff is not nearly as spendy. What I won't do is I won't grab random parallels. So I have to. It has to be a parallel that I like. I'm not going to like the premium box set stuff. I don't really like. You know, I don't like all the shimmers or the. The ice stuff, you know. But that being said, if it's jersey numbered, all right, maybe if it's jersey numbered, I'll grab it. So I'm pretty open. I love binders. So, like, building binder pages of players and teams is just really fun for me. So if I have a spot open on a binder page, I'll probably find something on comp C that I can fill it with. I'm not as. That makes sense. I think it's so interesting. And I find that whenever I talk to people, maybe you agree, maybe you disagree. Whenever I talk to people that are kind of like what I would classify as hardcore binder collectors, meaning like, a majority of their collection would be suitable in a binder, or like, they like doing it in a binder is that they focus on building a big picture. Like, everything contributes to another piece. And what I mean by that is it's like, okay, let's say you have the orange team color set, right? That's a piece. And then you have the Mojo team set or whatever it may be. It's almost like each card you fill in contributes to one area of that picture. And then when you put it all together, it creates, like, a nice, pretty collection. And I find with binder collectors, that's kind of a trend with them compared to, say, other collectors where they're like, well, I'm just going to pick up the most valuable, the most valuable cards. It's not going to have any cohesion across parallel insert, year, et cetera. It's kind of like a smattering with binder collectors. It feels much more, I don't know, like deliberate and like organized, where you have all these Venn diagrams that are kind of overlapping each other. So that's interesting. That makes sense, I guess. I want to leave this segment and kind of give you an opportunity to talk about advice because, you know, I think you've now been collecting for a long time and now you've been collecting the sun up until their. Their exit into the W of the wnba. Do you have any advice for somebody that's kind of going through or, you know, at some point there will be more franchises that dissolve or leave your city? Do you have any advice for kind of navigating this last season or like the. The ultimate end? Like, what advice would you give to somebody that maybe might be going through the same situation as you are in the future? I guess it depends on how it happens. So I am a little jaded that the sun are disappearing, right? So if the sun had been like moved to say, Hartford, Connecticut or even Green Bay, Wisconsin, and they were going to become, say, the Green Bay Cheeseheads, but they were going to basically continue the lineage, right? Like the team is relocating, the part of them going to Houston and sort of dissolving the sun and Miracle history and becoming the Comets again, that is leaves a very sour taste in my mouth. Not to mention, I think the Tribe was very much disrespect and all this. We won't get into it. So I personally, I don't think my fandom in collecting is going to carry over. And so what that's done this year is I love Anisa Morrow. I'm going to pick up a nice moral car at some point. But I'm not diving into the team collecting as much this year because I'm like these players. First of all, there's massive turnover in the roster recently, right? So all of the players that I grew to love got out of town before things got ugly here. They all requested trades went off. Nobody's, nobody's left except for poor Olivia Delson Adona, who is just trying to fight for minutes and, and do it fashionably. So this year is different for me. I think what had there, there were still some vats. I mean, you, you fall in love with the players though, as a WNBA collector. Right. And so that's, that's where I've gone with it. My collection is now focused more on Brianna Jones. And now I'm like, and I live. I love the WNBA so much that I watch a ton of out of market games. So I'm like really loving what the dream of doing this year. So I followed the players that I love, starting with when they got out of town last year, and I've been collecting them, picking them up on their new team. So I have some Mercury cards, I have some. So, you know, I have a couple of John Quell, you know, I learned to forgive her and I have a couple of her Liberty cards, even though I'm agree with you on a lot of the Liberty stuff. But their plays are pretty likable still. So I've really gone more to the player collecting. Now this and now the sun are, you know, sun setting and dissolving has been the approach that I've taken. But still enjoying it. Yeah, yeah, you have to. I mean, they're still your team while they exist. Right. And so like you're gonna have to deal with it, but I just, I can't imagine like genuinely, it sounds like dramatic, but like, I can't imagine my teams leaving me like that. Like, I would be pissed. So, like, the way that you're handling it seems like the proper, more like a mature way to handle it instead of like burning a jersey or cutting your cards in half, per se. So I think that's good advice to follow if people find themselves in this place. Speaking of being overly emotional, the next segment is all about like the emotional side of collecting. And I kind of want to get your thoughts as somebody who's, you know, I published a, I guess podcast episode, a solo one, all about nostalgia. And I talked about how nostalgia doesn't necessarily have to be something that's, you know, something that you personally experience. You don't have to be like right in the moment to claim nostalgia for something that happened or, you know, you don't have to have nostalgia for things that are. There's no time timetable on nostalgia. You can be nostalgic for something 100 years ago or you can be some nostalgic for something that happened yesterday. So I suppose I kind of want to get your take on how much nostalgia plays into your personal collection, if at all. Normally it does. Right. But so this is all, and I think kind of hitting on the players that I'm now collecting or the players that I grew an affinity for. While they were in Connecticut and really learned to respect and have those memories of going to those games. And that's the part that's going to be devastating for me is not going to those games with my kids. And yes, I'll still trek down to New York and see. I'll have to go to Liberty games, I guess. But like, getting, getting to New York City from Boston's not nearly as easy as Connecticut, so I won't be as engaged with the league in person. The nostalgia piece that I've really loved is I've loved learning about the history of the wnba and I do have a lot of respect for what the Tribe did with the WNBA and fellow wnba. So I've gone back before I got jaded with all this stuff. I went back and started to learn more about the history of the Miracle and the history of the transition and the history of players like Nikesha Sales, who was a star at UConn and then went on, was playing for the Miracle and came up and became the Sun's first All Star and, and buying some of those cards and learning that history of the team and the transition and what the Tribe did for ownership. And it was a pretty big focus of some of my just sort of sun enjoyment over the last few years and kind of trying to just relive that through cards and YouTube clips and reading articles. And that's sort of the nostalgia piece. And I didn't live through it. I wasn't going to those Games as a 24 year old. But I felt like I could bring myself back to that and really understand why the franchise is where it is today because of that history and in that love of the game. That's cool. I think, like when we talk about cards being like, tangible, I don't know, like tangible objects that you can hold, I think it really makes nostalgia something real. And I think, you know, what I'm trying to get at here is like that theme of like, you don't have to personally experience it to have nostalgia for it. And cards are a really good vehicle for making it just feel real. Feels like you can experience it in your own way. So that's a neat angle to kind of approach nostalgia. I want to ask you, are there any, like, particular cards that you've accumulated that maybe bring you back to a certain moment or a certain memory that you have? Lots of people maybe collect cards that, I don't know, just. They feel like time machines sometimes. At least to me. Maybe I'm being dramatic, but like, I feel like sometimes I Can look at a card and, and I can like feel the five senses of when I was at a game. Do you have any cards like that? So the big, the sappy one for me is the Dijonay Carrington cards is my daughter. You know, right now she's nine. So we started collecting together when she was, I don't know, four or five. And she got to a point where a shiny Dijon card was like the greatest thing in the world to her. So like, I went to a show and another friend of your podcast, Kevin Cormier, had, I don't even know what, some orange ice or something in there for three bucks and I bought it. It was like the greatest day for her to be in a show with dad and buying that. So those cards hit a very specific moment for me. The other ones are any of the cards that I can identify the moment when they happen. So even if I wasn't at the game, there's a get hyped insert from Prism and one of them is, is at from the finals in 2022 against the Aces. And it's showing her just, I mean, in all of Alyssa Thomas rage, just like screaming. And so those cards where I can go back to, especially when I was first becoming a fan and really following the team are some of my most enjoyable ones. Other than that, to be honest with you, I'm kind of an impulsive buyer. So like, I'll be watching a game and loving what's going on and be like, let me see if something's on ebay right now or let me go through story sales. So I do miss a little of that with the wnba. But that one specific Alyssa Thomas one hits home for me. And like I said, the DJ cards, that's cool. That's really cool to hear those stories. I guess my last question on kind of the emotional side is around, you know, winning versus losing seasons. You've kind of talked about the roller coaster ride that the Connecticut sun have been on over the past, I don't know, five years, say, where you were at, like peak expectations, I suppose, and making it to the finals and like having kind of, you know, really, really strong basketball product on the floor. Fast forward to today and I'm not trying to shit on the sun, but like, all of your players left, like you said, like all players that are like franchise level players have gone through the sun and went on to become like fan favorites elsewhere. How do you kind of navigate, I suppose, the, the winning seasons, the highs versus collecting, when you're saying like these Rebuilding years where maybe the players just, they're not winning as much. So you don't feel as, I don't know, empowered to collect them. What is that feeling like? Yeah, I mean, you hit on the highs, right? And when a team's winning, there's more media coverage. So you're seeing the team more and that's getting ingrained. And then because we're being conditioned to love these players even more, we buy more cards and then a team's winning. It's like you're so jacked up. And like I said, I will impulsively buy a card 100% watching a play game. I'm going to go onto ebay at some point, right. The down years. Let's just. In a, in a hypothetical world, let's say the sun are staying in New England, right. So I'm still going to be. They're still going to be my team. They have a very interesting core. Right. Layla Lacan, Anisa Morrow, the Naya Rivers Edwards, to a lesser degree. For some reason, Panini doesn't want to make Leila Lacon card, so she wouldn't count. But I would be finding the players that I really enjoy and like I said, connect with. I, I said it before, I love watching Morrow play. She's got to work on her offensive game, but her energy, her feel for rebounding, she just hustles and she just more often than not makes her a play. I would be slowly picking up one or two of her cards, knowing that she could get traded at any moment. Then I'd probably sell those cards. But I would be looking at who I think the next core would be and do I want to own some of those cards and I probably still will. I'm going to want to remember this season. I'm going to. I'm going to a bunch of games just so I can enjoy the moment. Some of them going by myself, some going family. So I'm going to want to recognize that. So I'll pick up cards to recognize this last sort of sunset season. But by the. I hate that term. The sunset season is so. It's such a positive thing. Let's not make really depressing. It's so romantic. But that's. That's what I would be doing. And I'm not a big prospectus, so I don't usually. I like a proven vet, but I would be going after the players or looking at cards for future purchase that I think are going to be some of the foundational players of the next wave of a team. Got it so just look ahead to more positive years during you're still enjoying the game, right? You still enjoy it. So the cards connect to even if they're losing. If you feel like your team's building something, you know, right now this the sun aren't right. And I would say but like if you look at a team like the Seattle Storm who have at least some young players that look like they could be those franchise type players, you can start in the new you can start to see a foundation and those are the type of players I'd be following and there for the cards that I'd be interested in. Makes sense. All right, I'm going to pivot us to my favorite segment that we've had so far this season, which is all about the personal grill. I've asked each guest beforehand to send me a picture of a card that kind of best represents their fandom and their collecting experience, I suppose. So I'm going to pull up what Steve sent me and while I'm getting it pulled up, why don't you kind of just share with the audience what card you picked once it comes up and why. The card that Caitlyn's going to pull up here is a 2022 from 2022 Revolution. It's John Quill Jones. It's the Kaleido Auto. So one out of one. And Revolution is my favorite Panini product that they've done in the WNBA era. I absolutely love it. Why I chose this card is for a couple of reasons. A the only one of ones in all of Revolution that year were the Autos and there's only 25 cards in the the set. So that means there's only 25 one of ones in the entire product release. The other part is that I took on a task that I never thought I would do and I am chasing the Master team set so for the entire Sun Run from revolution. So there's 117 cards between every base card has 10 parallels, every insert has 4 parallels plus the auto has a total of 5. She's the only auto. So there's 117 cards. I have 114 of them. When I started this chase I never thought like the one. What's the chance you'll find the 101 auto? Especially when this it's just such a rare card. It's kind of a chase set. I was getting ready to take my son to T ball which like 4 year old T ball is so painful. So I needed like something to pick me up. Happened to click on ebay because he had forgot his glove upstairs and this card popped up for 100 bucks. Been I've never smashed a bin so so fast in my life. Um, low rated seller. It was. The wording was weird. I'm not even really sure they knew exactly what it was they were selling. And it took like three days to ship. I remember checking my email non stop. So once I got that card, that's the only one of one. So the other short prints like out of tens and the Galactics. I knew I had a chance to really complete this like master set. And it's probably been one of the funnest things I've been doing. I'm still searching for cards. There's three that I can't find. But I've absolutely loved and been so energized by the couple years that this has taken. And to define that 101 and just to like random like impulsively check ebay. And there it is. Didn't have to bid, didn't have to fight far. There was no like messaging people on the side. It was just right there. I bought it, got it, great deal. So I love this card. I love the set. This is a beautiful card. I've seen maybe one of these. These parallels in person and they really just like grab your attention a way that other parallels do not. Maybe could you speak to like the aesthetics of it and kind of why it speaks to you outside of it kind of creating being the culmination of like a set build. Maybe the. The independent card itself. What do you like about the design of it? Yeah. So if people are familiar with Revolution and if you're familiar with the NBA side of it, it's a very similar set. But their short print parallels their Galactics and these Kaleidos. They have both the design so foil to them but also what I'm going to call a technology to the background that when the card is in hand it really looks like it's moving. So there's like a motion to it. There's a depth of color to it. It's almost like the player pops out of the front of it. Despite being a sticker auto, they did create a spot for the sticker to go so it fits seamlessly. It's not just slapped on the front of a card and it's just the picture of Jean quality. She's about to take a free throw. She looks so serious, so locked in. It's probably from her MVP season. The photo there, it's a. It's the blue alternative jersey with the. The I'm gonna mispronounce it. I don't want to do disrespect to it, but it's the Mohegan Tribe word for sun is what they use for their alternative jersey. And I just really like that aspect of it, too. The blue looks great with the background. It's just everything about this set, and like you said, these specific parallels, they just really pop. So this is. This is, I think, a statically very pleasing card. I agree. And to just, like, nerd out with you for a second for folks that, like, aren't seeing it, I just want to describe, like, the way that Jonquil's holding the basketball as well. It's, like, perfectly framing the WNBA logo on the ball, perfectly reading Wilson. It's just like. It's just, like, framed very nicely, which I think is kind of a. Another feather in the cap that this. This card has. So I really love this pick, and I love how it kind of contributes to the bigger story of your collection and kind of building towards something on top of being, you know, a sick card, like a standalone card. So thanks for sharing that. I really like that one. When I saw that, you know, I have my grief with John Quill, but other than that, I respect her very much, and this was an awesome card, so that's sweet. All right, moving on from the Grail card, which is, like, so hard to move on from, because I feel like I could just like, evaluate and nerd out on cards for so long. I kind of want to pivot us to community. We talked about that, about how this is kind of a pillar of what I'm trying to do with this podcast. Talk about the community of WNBA cards. Talk about the community of WNBA fandom in general. But I guess, what kind of does it feel like to be a Connecticut sun collector? Like, what's that community feel like from your experience? I wouldn't say this. I. I have not found a huge community of collectors, to be honest. But to be honest, and this is a longer story, but the New England area isn't a great basketball card community in general. That's not to say it doesn't exist. And there's obviously great history, but the basketball card community isn't as deep as it would be for, like, baseball or hockey cards up here. So you've already got sort of a smaller collective to pull from, and then you've got the wnba, which have been then even more of a niche product within that. And I would. I feel like. And maybe I'm wrong, and maybe I. That the sun are not a very light franchise throughout the rest of the wnba and honestly I, if I was not a Sun fan, I could see why people like Alyssa Thomas and Duana Bonner would really get under your skin and frustrate you or maybe not be someone you'd want to, you know, collect or chase. So I don't. There's a great Connecticut sun community. That being said, there's a shop down in Connecticut that I've had. I met the owner well before I even knew he owned a shop because we were talking about Alyssa Thomas cards and going to sun games and sun cards. Kevin Cormier, who I know you've had on before in for lives in my area, he's a good friend of mine. We, you know, chat about the sun and Cards all the time. But I would say the benefit I get out of community is the larger WNBA community in general where I just if you're a WNBA collector and you're going to share that publicly, you're going to find other like minded people that generally are very good people that want to nerd out about Cards, want to talk about the league will in the best way possible be like I hate your team because they took down my sky in the playoffs, but what a great card that is. Let's talk about it. So I love the larger community. I think it's more accepting and inclusive than some other communities in the hobby. But I wouldn't say the Connecticut sun aspect of it. I haven't found to be all that like tight knit or even all that vast. Well, hopefully for all of our Connecticut sun listeners, you guys can all make yourself known and grieve together and kind of commiserate in your final all season. It's a little late but hopefully this can bring some of that to light. I kind of want to shift to players era and team history. I think you like very succinctly address my community questions and talk more about just like individuals and kind of just individual aspects of collecting. You've mentioned a few names, but I guess if you had to pick a couple players that define your sun collection, which players would those be and like what's the reason behind them? You talked about some of them but maybe clarify it for me if you don't mind. Yeah, so if I were to pick players that define my collection as son, the first player that comes to mind is Dewana Bonner because she was sort of the first star that and her play style is very dynamic. She's one of the best scorers in league history and she was as someone she came to the team about when I was coming to the NBA into the WNBA fandom. Harry had this champion and by the time they won, you know, she won her second champion. She was a primary scorer for the Mercury. So you had this sort of pedigree coming to town and I just really loved watching her play. Her style stand stood out among the other players. So she was the first one that I sort of started collecting as an individual player outside of team stuff. And then I've mentioned, you know, Brianna Jones sort of became the, the first player that I learned about the card side of it and let me see if I want to start not investing but sort of making a PC of this player because I think she's going to be the next iteration of stars that stays with the team. That was wrong. Well she stayed for a while but. And then Dijonay because that's one my daughter and I collect. And then Alyssa Thomas because I don't think you can watch Alyssa Thomas play basketball day in and day out and not learn to respect her and just are at her, you know, everything she has to offer the both as a competitor, as a leader on the bench. I just, I just love everything about her. So so much respect for her that she's probably the one that I've put the most time and effort into. She's the the one that I've decided like I went after her Rittenhouse rookie and you know those don't. Those aren't cheap for for me like that's a higher end card to me. I've got several, you know, Golds. I've gone after some of her her autos recently from from impeccable. So should be sort of the one that gets the most focus over the years if that makes sense. Gotcha. I'm going to ask you probably an even harder question now which is I've been asking folks kind of if they could create their Mount Rushmore of their franchise and this is kind of like a bigger question for you because there's no future of like this changing. Right. Like the once we carve this stone of Mount Rushmore of the sun. That's what it is. Like this is the last season. So if you had to create your Mount Rushmore, which four players are you putting up there and why so and I'll say you might challenge this because I think I'm going to leave off a player that you would put on there but I'm going to start nikesha sales just because she was the first all Star in Team history and she sort of is the bridge between the Miracle and the sun in my opinion and like I said, has the Connecticut background with UConn even though she was only here for a few years. I'm going to go Tina Charles because of what she's accomplished in the league, but also during her three to four seasons in Connecticut she was an mvp, a rookie of the year and then she came back for, well, let's just say at her sunset season she finished up her career here. One of just the true all time greats in league history. Then I'm going to go with the other MVP that we've had in town, John Cole Jones. I just, there isn't an accolade that she hasn't accomplished in the game of basketball from winning individual accolades, team winning and then my final Mount Rushman would be Lissa Thomas. I just think she's the most complete player that the sun have had and you know she was you know I believe 2016 she was drafted, stayed until leaving for the MERCURY so through 2024. And I just think she's the most consistent star in the longest tenured like true star that the team had. I'm not gonna argue I, I think I know which one you're referring to, maybe somebody from my state but I think that that's a, a very respectable and like, I don't know, core to the sun identity. I think a lot of what people talk about when they think about Mount Rushmore is winning and those people are all winners like to their, to their core. So I'm not even going to push back. I, I agree. One of the things that we've kind of, I've claimed that we've coined, I don't know if somebody else did before but like I've claimed that we've coined this term of disrespect index which is an idea that you know, somebody's on the court play does not translate to their market prices in the card collecting world. And I've been asking people if you could pick one player from your franchise that maybe scores the highest on that index, who would it be and why? And if it's at how do you feel that she's probably on multiple teams lists of disrespect. It's tempting to go at. It's tempting to go Jonquill just I think people love John Quell, but I don't think her price, I mean I saw I, I didn't bid on an A Prism Gold recently because I assumed it was going to go too high and it sold for 30 bucks. It was a true goal. So. And like I said, there isn't an accolade that John Quell has. I mean, look up her Wikipedia. Just look at all of her awards. And I mean, she's hit them all. I'm going to go with someone that maybe will not go down as someone that people think sun first when they think of her. I'm going to go Dewana Bonner. I think she is. I don't think she's as light. Just. I don't think people, like, gravitate towards her. I also don't think they recognize how consistently impactful she's been in the WNBA for many, many years, whether it be playing as a, you know, young player and growing through those great Mercury teams. And truly look at, look at the stats from that second championship. She was a key piece. She's one of the greatest scorers in league history. She rebounds, she defends. I mean, you know, and I kind of like that she didn't do well in the Fever. I'm just going to say it. All right. Like, let's see the fans, you know, But I think, I think Joanna Bonner would be. Even though, like, she, you know, had her five years and she's going to go down as, you know, a Mercury great, she would be the one that. I think it's the most. The highest. And the disrespect factor for me, okay, I can respect it. I mean, ATD Dewana Bonner, like, might just group them together on the Disrespect Index. It makes, it makes too much sense, I think, I think, I think the Connecticut Sun. My thought is, and maybe you disagree, I think out of all the franchises, the Connecticut sun would have the highest team average of Disrespect Index scores. I'd have to think about it. But they're up there for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. I'd like to pick your brain. You know, you've been following them for a while now. You've done your research, I suppose. Do you have any, like, particular moments, whether it be championship runs, maybe just a game that you went to with your family or something like that, Something that kind of, like stands out to you first. It's on the forefront of your mind in terms of, I don't know, moment of sun fandom. Yeah. For me personally, and this is. Goes back to the. What could have been cheesy thing that came up with earlier was the first game they played in the Boston Garden. So that was, I should know, 2024. It was against the LA Sparks. They did a whole Boston LA thing and just seeing the way the city showed up for that being a path Garden for, you know, WNBA team. The Sparks still weren't good back then, but the sun were so it was a very good game. Dijonay Carrington Baldo the tickets are cheap enough that my daughter and I got to sit like center court 10 rows back at the Garden, which you just can't do for a Celtics everyone's game. So that was probably like my peak fandom moment. As far as other moments that stand out, it was that that 2023 season when the watching what happened with Brianna Jones going down with the Achilles, that was probably, I think that was Dewana Bonner's best season offensively in the sun. She was just so dominant and then the rise of at through that season and watching her take over and be the leader of a team, that's what every fans want those moments. And so that entire season was, was really powerful for me. But the number one one is that that game, the Garden. Do you think this is not one of the questions that I prepped for you, but I'm curious, kind of like your ideal situation of what would have happened if they didn't relocate or restart as the Houston Comets. Would you have preferred for them to stay where they are as the Connecticut sun franchise or move to Boston and like kind of like rebrand but keep the history? I think they've outgrown and this is gonna, this is a very sensitive subject among sun fans, but I think they've outgrown Connecticut. They can't, they couldn't stay where they were. The Tribe is in debt. Casinos aren't what they used to be money wise, so the Tribe had to sell. Ideally they would have been allowed to sell the team at open market and get the highest bids for it instead of just being pushed to Houston because that's what the WNB wanted and they sold for under market value. Thanks Pride, for doing so good for us. Now we're going to take $50 million out of your pocket. So that's number one is I would have gone to open bids. I would have loved for them to be able to stay in Hartford. I'm not very familiar with Hartford Connecticut, but I've been there enough to know that I think they've even the WNB has even outgrown Hartford. So a relocation to Boston would have been I think the best case scenario as far as continuing to grow the brand, rebrand, keep the history. So Miracle sun and then whatever Boston would have been it be in a full NBA arena. They the person bidding from Boston would have been an independent owner. It wasn't going to be the Boston's Celtics ownership group. So he was already committing to building team facilities that would have been owned by the team and run by the team and they probably would have played out of the Garden the summer. I think that seems like it would have been a great move for the WNBA to come to a major market that has a history of both collegiate sports in the area. It would have been the centerpiece of New England for women's basketball along with the Huskies. Makes a lot of sense to me. I don't know but so but I would have been fine if it just went to open market. Whoever was the highest bidder brought. I just don't like the being sold under market value to rebrand as the columns just to bring the comments back and give them to the Houston Rockets ownership group. That just doesn't sound right to me. You can sign me up on your I'll co sign on what you just said. I agree completely. And it does make me think that like now there's kind of a gap in the New England area. Right. Like there's obviously the Liberty over there, but now we've created another gap that eventually with the growth that we're experiencing in the league is likely going to be needed to be filled at some point. Do you think that there's a possibility of a franchise I suppose being created in the greater Boston or New England area in the future? Yeah, I mean there's. There's a. There's a fan base here for. For sure. And there's. I mean it's a economically pretty sustainable area. Pro sports teams do well here. So I don't see any reason why there wouldn't be other than I. I do wonder if the WNBA is growing a little bit faster than they're ready for. Maybe needs to slow down on the expansion stuff and let these teams sort of settle in and and see because there's limited revenue if you're going to keep it to under 50 game seasons and they're fighting for arena space. So I think all things set aside Boston be a great sport. It's a great spot. I think it'll happen eventually. I don't anticipate it happening in the next five years. So I think it's. It's a ways out. Do you think you'll be if they I'm throwing so many hypotheticals at you but like if there was a team that came to Boston, would they automatically gain your fandom? Probably. But again, what's happening is I'm so invested in the wn, invested in the WNBA now as a league. So I don't know if they would because what teams are following, what plays, who have I aligned with during the gap? My now 9 year old daughter might be in high school or college at the time. So am I going to be as interested in going to so many games and bringing us a fan? Because that family connection with the WNBA is so essential for me that I, I might have my alliance with other teams or just be like I'm going to be a neutral site fan and just watching neutral site games for the next couple years, Right? Yeah, exactly. Point you had, you're, you know, a W fan. So we'll see. I mean they, they had some momentum in New England and they're, they're giving away both heritage and recent momentum and we'll see if that's they can recover from that. I think they will, but I don't know for me personally. Yeah, yeah, that's fair. I'll tell you one person that isn't recovering from this and that's Kathy. And I'm all for that. So we'll see how that goes For I have one last question kind of on this segment which is another kind of like Mount Rushmore s question. So I asked you about kind of who's the Mount Rushmore of players for the Kennedy consign. But I ask you to complete the same exercise. It doesn't have to be four, it can be less than four. But the same exercise for cards. I always find it interesting when people name players in their Mount Rushmore of great quote unquote and then the market doesn't translate one for one. If you had to give me a couple cards that represent kind of the best of the best of the sun, what would they be? Yeah, so this one was a little tougher for me because I don't know, you know, the sun, the greatness of the sun were happening primarily through the Rittenhouse era and then into the early Panini era. I did go with, I cheated a little bit. I went with the miracle card. So I went with sales platinum medallion rookie just because I think that 98 layer alter a set is just such a beautiful set. And those medallions I'm, I lost out on one. It sold. I mean I don't even know how many current WNBA fans would pick up on her name instantly. And her platinum medallion sold I think over 200 and a pretty low grade on ebay the other day. So I, that's set just in like I said, sales is such a, a bridge between the, the Orlando and Connecticut heritage. I Then you have to have a Rittenhouse card. I went with John Quell Jones's rookie over Alyssa Thomas's. I think it's an aesthetically much more pleasing card. It's got the white border. Alyssa Thomas has sort of the her years. The one with. It's got like sort of the big blue border on the side and the, the off center picture. Yeah. Not as aesthetically pleasing. So I wanted John Paul Jones more so because I felt like I needed to have a Rittenhouse card. But there's debate there about which one, which rookie out of the Rittenhouse era. And then I went with 2020 is such a key year. I'm going to go with the Alyssa Thomas 2020 prism gold. I think that set is just so iconic. She has a great image on it. It's a great picture. It's much better than so like Dwana Bonner is not nearly the icon that Alyssa Thomas is and hers is like a press, like a photo, photo day picture or something in game photos. So I only came up with those three. It was this, like I said, it was tough because there isn't, I don't know how many people could think of like the sun card. Right. It's, there's no like Diana Taurasi rookie card. That is the, the, that version of the sun card. So be interested to hear what kind of feedback or if you have any thoughts on that one. But I, I, I struggled with that, that task, to be honest with you. Yeah, I always try to think like when I ask a question to somebody, I always ask myself to see if I would just. I'm just curious on people's opinions. Mine is very biased because when I close my eyes and I think about Connecticut sign cards, I think about the Whelen rookie card, like the Rittenhouse Waylon card. There's something about it that's, that's what I see. That logo is what I see. But I would say like the at 2020 would be. I'd like really think that that one would certainly make the cut of top three in terms of just like iconic imagery, iconic set like the engine, like the player, everything about it. But I like the ones that you picked. I think it's interesting that you felt compelled to spread out over the eras compared to some people really like crowd in and they're like maybe only the past five years are the most iconic sets because they're worth a lot more money. I like that you spread it out. So I like it. I like the choice. Okay, we're going to wrap up today's episode and talk about. Our final segment that we have planned is around kind of like hobby and market perspective. I think we all know that the sun are leaving. But I want to ask you maybe right now, today, as you sit here and talk, as we talk, do you feel like being a Sun collector, you feel at the top of the food chain? Do you feel at the bottom of the food chain? Do you feel somewhere in the middle? I guess, like. And has it always felt that way? Has it moved? Yeah, it's this one I found very interesting because right now I'd say this. I would say there's a little more momentum from other fans because I think they like some of the rookies and young players. Like, I get a lot of chatter about people loving Anissa Mara right now, and I feel like people are chasing her cards then. I've seen several posts or in group chats. Not a Sun fan, but I'm a Morrow fan. So I went and bought this card. And last year, Rivers was having sort of that push. Rivers was sort of the darling of the team, and she's. She's been a little inconsistent this year, so I don't think she's getting the prospector approach. I've always kind of felt like I'm at the bottom of the food chain. You know, people. There's a time where Alyssa Thomas has, you know, been quote, unquote hyped or people who are chasing her cards want her cards. I don't think there's been a lot of other players or, you know, reasons to collect the sun, even though they've been on the court as dominant as they have been. They were even when they were dominant. No. 1, it wasn't like they were the favorite to win a championship. They were one of the top two to four teams that were true contenders. Right. So I've never felt like I'm on the top of the food chain, which is fine because again, I can buy Alyssa Thomas prism gold for 50 bucks. Right. And can't do that for Kelsey Mitchell or Sophie Cunningham. So I'm not. Not worried about it. But I. I do, ironically feel a little bit more. Okay, people are chasing some of these younger players now, and maybe they see what could be. Houston's a much bigger market, so maybe there is a prospector approach to it and they're just picking them up. But yeah, bottom of the food chain for sure. But comfortably there's but happy to be there. Okay, that's good. I. I do find that kind of angle of this prospecting approach. I think that my theory is that is what is. What is happening is that people are saying, you know, there might not be as big of a market or as big of a fan base from pure numbers where the at the Connecticut sun right now, but these players are all going to get shifted. They're all going to get moved around like they're going to go to Houston. But then things are going to change as as happens with young franchises. And I think that people are kind of making a bet of there's going to be more eyes on these players. They're going to have maybe a different system or just a different environment. And I think that that might be pushing kind of some of the dynamics that we're seeing recently with the sun compared to say before they announced the change to the Comets. I don't know. Just food for thought for folks, I guess. My last question before we close out is we've all experienced this elevation of women's sports card collecting. I think it's ignorant to say that prices haven't gone up, that attention hasn't soared, both in the card collecting space but also in the league in general, I suppose. How has that increase in prices notably or anything else increase in attention, coverage, et cetera. How's that kind of impacted sun collecting? Do you think it's had the same sort of. I suppose I keep saying impact, but the same sort of impact as say our last collector was a Fever fan. Do you think it has the same impact on Connecticut sun fans or is it. Or is it a little bit less? It's much less. But I will say like I said with recency bias, seeing what some of the rookies are selling for now, but also the sun haven't had in the last several years key rookies to chase from sets. Right. So they traded away their draft picks. So when they were like finals contenders, they didn't have key rookies. And it took a player like Dijon Carrington in her second, third year to come out for people to go back. But actually her rookie card is from her second season, right. So they didn't have those key rookies. So Morrow and Rivers are the first key rookies. And since I've been collecting sun cards so I don't know if it's that people are the mark is just higher and so seeing and an EASA Morrow card sell for 200 when I can't remember the last time I saw a Sun card at all sell for 200 outside of an Alyssa Thomas rookie is jarring to me. But I don't know if that's just the prospecting nature of high focus rookies right now across the league. That part has been jarring to me. I will say, and I won't go too deep into this. My favorite player in the league is Veronica Burden. She's from Boston. Her family's very entrenched. They play for the Patriots. What they're so I love Veronica Burden. I bought her Gold Rookie for like 20 bucks several years ago, her galactic rookie for 14 bucks. Watching what has happened in Golden State, those fans are wild and I I joke with my my W They're paying Asia Wilson money for Veronica Burton is what I like to say. So I definitely get a taste of what's happening in other markets and seeing the push for people that I think some people are buying Veronica Burden 2024 cars thinking they're rookie cards because it's their first year on the Valkyrie or 2025 cards rather. But so I'm seeing a little bit of what's happening in other markets just by following the cards on my watch list. But I'm not seeing that at the Sun. Like you can still buy Alyssa Thomas and Dwana Bonner, but they're not people don't want their sun cards anymore. So I bet their Mercury, their nice Mercury stuff is selling for more and we just have the rookies right now. Yeah, it's just an interesting situation that we found ourselves in or you found yourself in as a Sun fan. So thanks for sharing kind of that that market perspective. As we round out today's episode. I've been asking each guest at the end to kind of make a pitch as to why they should be a fan of the franchise that we've been talking about all day. But you know, before we got on the mic I was like, I have this question in here, but you're kind of pitching for a couple more games or you're going to be pitching for the comments here. So I'm curious how you're going to respond to this. But the prompt is if there's somebody listening that's into the wnba. They're fans of a wnba, the league. They're wearing a WNBA branded hat but not necessarily a team merch to a game. What's your pitch for the Connecticut sun, if any? My first pitch, if people listen to this in audio and not video, you guys all have to go back and watch Caitlin's face while she was asking that question because the smirk was pretty impressive. I think I don't really have much of a pitch because and this is going to sound sad, I'm going to games to see the other players myself, right. I'm going to games to enjoy the environment. I'm going to games because I'm going to miss it. I'm going to games because I want to see Bree Jones one more time easily. The sun, I would say definitely they're going. They have had. I forget the stat. They've basically had a different starting lineup every game. So if you want to see a team that is trying to find its identity and figure out which players are going to be long term WNBA players and which ones might be the fringe ones that get expansion drafted, that part of it's very interesting. It is a team that, yes, we have Brittney Griner. So enjoy her because man, she's dynamic and watching her, she makes life easier for guards is the way Kevin said. It's like she's. Her wingspan is so large that it's just a dynamic watch. But I really would go in and looking if you wanted to watch some sun games, A, your other team's probably going to win, but B, looking at a team that truly has no foundation, no identity, trying to figure out what that identity is going to be when they go to. When they go to Houston because they have players are under contract that are inexpensive, that have a ton of upside and they're just trying to parse out who's staying, who's going. I also think they're probably tanking because I think it's juju to Houston mode. They've had some moves at the end of games where I think that is not basketball right there. So if you also want to go a little conspiracy theory and see what tanking looks like, I get a kick out of it. All of a sudden they change the way they play for the last three minutes and just kick the ball across the court. But yeah, so tanking. Interesting. And then also sort of young player development and trying to find a. I assume they want to go to Houston. Across the wnba we talk about a team's identity, right? Golden State has an identity. I think they're trying to figure out what their identity is going to be in. That part of it is interesting. All right, great. So if you're wearing a tin hat out there and you're having an identity crisis, the Connecticut sun are for you. I think that's going to be the most unique pitch of this season. So I really like that. Well, thank you for joining us, Steve, on the WNBA Card Podcast, if people don't know how to find you just one more time, where can they find you on the Internet, all these sun fans, if they're looking for a community? Yeah, so you can find me. My Instagram handle is Sholey so Sholey 2003 and that's what I use across all platforms. So I, I keep it consistent. I'm on. Com C with that. If I go on the Bloat forums, anything like that, it's always the same handle and then completely unstructured. So not like what Caitlin does. Me and a couple of buddies do a small podcast called Hoops Hobby Hangout so you can find us there. It's literally supposed to be like we're like just hanging out at a shop. So we come up with a, a topic each week. We do not have questions in advance. People can hop on live and we just sort of chat. I, I try to bring some of the WNBA perspective to it, but we just talk about collecting basketball cards for an hour a week and we do it live on, on YouTube. So definitely feel free to check that out as well. Absolutely. If you guys are there, check it out. And don't forget to check out at WMBA Card Pod on Instagram. Steve, thank you so much for joining once again and audience. We'll see you on the next episode. Love that conversation. I could listen to Steve and Caitlyn talk cards forever. Can't wait for the next episode here on the WNBA Card Podcast. Appreciate, appreciate all your support. Make sure you're following us at the WNBA Card Pod on Instagram. You all take care. We'll be back. Talk to you soon.