Top 10 Most-Graded Cards Of 2024 (One Player Dominated!) And Who To Expect On 2025 List; Are We Past The Bottom Of The Sports Card Market With Potential Rebound Of High-End Card Sale Prices?

You're listening to Cards to the Moon, a podcast about trading cards from both a collector and investor perspective. We hope you'll stick around for the ride as we take a deep dive into the state of the hobby, share some hot takes, hopefully some useful advice and fun stories along the way. Hey guys, welcome back to Cards to the Moon. This is Clark from 5cardguys.com and 5cardguys on Instagram and on YouTube. Hosting with me as usual is John, who you can find on Instagram at tradeyouatrecess, all one word. Hyung's actually feeling a little under the weather today so he'll be missing out, but we're hoping he'll be able to join us next week. Alright, off the top, Golden, they just launched its January Elite Auction, which I think lasts for another couple of weeks. The card with the highest bid as of January 16, when we're recording this episode, is the LeBron James 2003-04 Upper Deck Ultimate Collection Autograph Rookie card, which is numbered to 250. It's also graded, this card in particular, is graded a BGS Black Label. The current bid is at $90,000. My first question is really, what do you think it'll sell for? We're notorious for being off on high-end card sales, so I'm not as interested in what exactly it'll sell for, but I want to give you some comps first, and then I got a follow-up question for you. The comps, in November 2020, it sold for $344,400, and then February 2022, which is kind of the hobby hype, the hobby peak, it sold again for $660,000, so almost double the November amount, November 2020 amount. And then most recently, in March 2023, which is kind of when everything really died down, it sold for $180,000, okay? So it went from $660,000 to $180,000. So my question is, do you think ultimately that this card, this LeBron card, will sell for more or less than the last comp, which is $180,000? And would you say your answer speaks to how you feel about where we are in the hobby right now? So you think over-under, it's essentially an over-under question, but yeah. What's the pop count on the Black Label? And these comps are all Black Label, I'm assuming? Yes. The comps are all for the Black Label. Yeah, I'll look it up, but yeah, it can't be that much. I mean, I think in general, the hobby, overall pricing-wise, is down from March of 2023. So I have to assume the number will be below $180,000, the last comp. And unless somebody has been really wanting this card for a long time, and you're about to reveal the pop count, and it's ridiculously low, actually, sorry, not one person, two people, and they go into a bidding war, perhaps it could go higher. But really, I think if it's an indication of the market, it probably shouldn't be lower. I'm going to guess with buyer's premium, you're looking at $130,000 to $150,000. Okay. That would be my guess. If you give me a number, I'll put it at $150,000. So you think it'll be lower, okay. So you think- It's at $90,000 right now, right? It's at $90,000, yeah. Yeah. Because if I'm strictly looking at it from an investment perspective, and I'm not looking at it like, this is the card I have to get, not so much a collector's eyes, but from an investment perspective, if you're a pretty and prudent investor, you know where the market's at. If the comp was at $180,000 on March 2023, that kind of sets, to me, it would kind of set the ceiling on how much I should be spending on this card, right? If I'm going to go above that, it's an indication that I'm willing to overspend because of whatever reason, emotional reason I have, but strictly investment, if this auction is going to two bidders that are strictly investors, I can't see it going close to the $180,000 mark. I can see, I mean, certainly going to tip over $100,000, but I'll probably guess $150,000 at the most. Okay. So I mean, $150,000 to $180,000 is not, relatively speaking, a huge amount, right? Jump. No, it's not. Compared to the $660,000 to $180,000 that we saw previously. So I mean, do you think that says the market is kind of stabilizing at this point? I think that, yeah. I would think we're in a state of, yeah, I mean, we have seen fairly stable numbers over the last little bit, right? If I'm not wrong. Yeah, I agree. If you're looking at, I don't know, Wenby Silver, Lucas Silver, some sort of staple cards, I think they've been somewhat stable, if not gone down slightly, Wenby a little bit more so because of the hype. Yeah, for sure. I think that's probably the word to use. Okay. Yeah, I think for sure it's stabilizing in terms of the hobby market overall, generally speaking. I actually think it's going to go over $180,000. I feel like I've seen some higher end cards that have dipped and we've started to see the lows over the past year, right? Like a lot of gold prisms of big name players. I can't think of one off the top of my head, but in the past I've seen... Jason Tatum, I think I've seen his. And the recent prices are a little higher, not significantly higher than the previous sale, but there's kind of this rebound that I'm seeing for some of these lower numbered higher end cards. So I think I wouldn't be surprised to say that, that this card will sell over for $180,000, maybe $200,000. That's kind of my guess. The only thing going against LeBron is that he has more high end rookie cards too, right? So maybe this isn't the card that you want and maybe the black label doesn't do it for you. So you're not going to necessarily want to pay a premium on this black label rookie card of LeBron, but it has eye appeal if you saw the card and I think it's one of the more cleaner looking cards of LeBron's rookie. That's vertical and that's a plus. And yeah, just kind of in general, I actually want to target it like a BGS 9.5 when it was down to like, I believe like eight, nine, 10,000, but it's too rich still for me. You know, I was hoping that came down to six or five, but it never did. But yeah, no, like BGS 9.5 goes for 10K and the black label goes for maybe a little bit higher. Maybe I was looking at BGS 9. But yeah, but I mean, regardless, the black label has a pretty high premium on this card. I couldn't find the pop count for the black label, but it is numbered to 250. So I can't imagine that there are more than two or three, if two, you know what I mean? So maybe there is this one. All right. Well, yeah, for me, I guess just to wrap up what I was thinking, I think we are kind of on the rebound in terms of the market, you know, definitely stabilizing at the very least, which I agree with you on, but yeah, we'll see. We'll see how it does. It'll be interesting to see what the final sale is in a couple of weeks. All right, let's move on to hobby headlines. So we didn't cover this yet, but PSA, they released the top most graded cards of 2024, which is this past year. And this may or may not surprise you, but six out of the 10 spots belongs to one guy and his name is Victor Wembenyama, all right? There are three other athletes that make up the top 10 and you'll hear who they are when I go through the list, but something to think about as I go through this list, three of the four players listed in this top 10, they're currently active in their sport. And I want to talk about each one on how we think their card market will do in 2025. Like do you think collectors will continue to want to grade their cards or do you think it was a uniquely 2024 thing? All right, so let me go through the list first and I'll go from 10 to 1, all right? The 10th most graded all the way to the most graded. And number 10 is the 2023 Panini NBA Hoops Victor Wembenyama card, okay? The 2023 Panini NBA Hoops Victor Wembenyama card, about 10,000, I guess they rounded these numbers. Yep. Number nine is the one player that's not active. I'm going to save that for the end. I'm going to do a kind of a mini quiz show on you after if you can guess who it is. Number eight, 2023 Panini Donruss of Victor Wembenyama, 13,000 cards graded. Number seven, 2023 Panini NBA Hoops. Another NBA Hoops Victor Wembenyama, this number 277 versus the 298. I don't know what these images are, but I guess there are two Wembenyama cards in the set. That 277 card was graded about 14,000 times. Number six, here's your first non-Victor Wembenyama player, 2023 Upper Deck Conor Bedard Young Guns card, number 451, graded 15,000 times. Number five, we're back to Victor Wembenyama, his 2023 Panini Select Blue, number 87, graded 16,000 times. Number four, the only football player on this list, 2023 Panini Donruss of CJ Stroud, number 339, graded 17,000 times. Number three, here we go, top three, 2023 Panini Prism Monopoly of Victor Wembenyama, number 81, 17,000 times. Tied, relatively tied with 17,000 cards graded, number two is 2023 Panini Prism of CJ Stroud. So there you go, Stroud's on the list twice. And number one, can you guess number one? It's a Victor Wembenyama card. Prism. Yeah. Which basketball card? Yes. Panini Prism 2023, 40,000 times. Oh my goodness. More than double the number two and three spot. Holy cow. Obviously that's, I'm assuming that's the base, but yeah, Prism number 136. All right. So you got Victor Wembenyama, the other two athletes, of course, are CJ Stroud, who's on the list twice and Conor Bedard. So let's talk Wemby first, 2025, you know, it's kind of this weird transition year, right? Because I think it's another year of unlicensed Topps product and you still have your licensed Panini Prism until the license kicks in for Topps in 2026, which is next season. So you got another year of this kind of like, do you like the auto better or do you like the licensed cards better? But the difference, main difference between 2025 and 2024 years, of course, this year won't be his rookie year. So you'll see less of his rookie cards. So do you think Wemby cards will still be as highly sought after and graded a ton this year? I don't think so. I think you'll see a lot less fear numbers like you did in the past, because obviously most of the cards on that list are base rookie cards and base rookie cards, you know, there's a investment game there, right? The product first releases, you get as many as you can, send them all in for grading for 19 bucks a pop or whatever the price is, and you get them back and most of them are probably tens and you sell them off for 75 bucks or whatever it was. The premium was probably pretty high, a lot higher. But when you look, get into second year, third year, obviously the base game kind of disappears in terms of submissions. So I think you're going to still see lots of Wemby, but in terms of the sheer numbers, you probably won't. And you'll start to see a lot of autographs, you know, serial number, anything serial numbered, I'm assuming will probably get graded. I mean, if one of us got a serial number of Wemby, anything first, second, third, fourth year, we probably will get a graded. So I still think Wemby will be either the top or very close to the top this year as well. Yeah. I don't disagree, man. I mean, like, I think I mentioned, I think I mentioned in the last episode that I'm all in on Wemby, like just looking at his stats, you know, of course, you know, with my luck, you know, the injury fear that we all had two, three seasons ago, like his rookie season. Maybe that'll come, but hopefully not. But, you know, he seems to know his body well. He seems to have added muscle this past season as well. Still a really young guy. And just what he's doing is phenomenal. So I'm all in on Wemby. And if that's my mentality, if I'm a convert going to, you know, like all in on Wemby cards, I think there's more of me out there as well in the hobby. So I agree with you on those two points, mainly one, Wemby is probably going to still be number one in terms of the number of cards that he gets graded, even if it's a second year non-rookie card, but two, I don't think it will be in the same volume amount as we just read out in this 2024 list because it is his non-rookie year, but yeah, no, I have a, my pick one, just a teaser. My pick one is based on Wemby and I'm really interested to hear what you, what you have to say on it. But a lot of, a lot of my thought is these days are preoccupied by Wemby cards. I'm watching a lot of his cards lately. All right, let's go on to CJ Stroud. He's been on the list twice. And we're recording this before the Houston Texans played the KC Chiefs in the NFL playoffs. So, you know, with that context, do you think? Um, the outcome of their playoff success or how deep they're able to go will have a factor in the popularity of CJ Stroud cards. Or do you think CJ Stroud is a guy that people will still target in, in, uh, 2025 regardless how, uh, I haven't followed his stats. I get that. Yeah. I'm assuming, I mean, they made the playoffs. I'm assuming he had a pretty decent season, but nothing. Yeah. They had, uh, I mean, I didn't really hear much of CJ Stroud in social media in terms of sports cards this past year. So I'd assume he had a pretty normal year, pretty decent, but nothing super spectacular. At the same time, I think the hype on CJ Stroud last year was so high that he had to meet really super, maybe even unrealistic expectations, but he did, you know, I mean, he got his team into the playoffs, right. And he beat the chargers last week pretty handily. I think with football, like the football card market, I don't know. They just have like this insatiable thirst to chase, you know, maybe it's, it's just a culture of gambling, but there's always huge chase. It's sort of unbalanced amount of chase and, and whoever becomes that target that year, usually the first quarterback off the board is, is kind of becomes a chase. But they, I feel like the football market chases that quarterback similar to Wemby or similar to Bart Bedard in the sense that they, it's not, it doesn't even have to be a generational player, but it's chased as if it's like a generational player, right. So I think for, for that reason, CJ Stroud, I don't, I haven't heard anybody say he's like a generational talent. So I think he'll kind of start to, you know, in a, in one or two more seasons, that hype will, the hype window will die down similar to, to Joe Burrow, similar to Justin Herbert. It'll start to die down unless he starts to show that trajectory of like a Patrick Mahomes or a Josh Allen where they can kind of upkeep the hype. But yeah, I would, I would think by next year on this list, I could see CJ Stroud just not being on it, period. In terms of like, and that's not to speak to his talent. It's not a knock. Like I, I don't know if he has, because the football market will move on, right? Like I think whoever is next year's quarterback is going to take the spot from, from in terms of grading, the top graded quarterback or the top graded NFL card will probably, if it's in the top 10 list, it'll probably be the latest hype pro game, right? Rather than CJ Stroud. Yeah, no, I see your point for sure. I think the one thing that CJ Stroud has going for him is he's still really young. He's 23. I just checked his age and you know, like the guys that we're talking about, like Herbert and even Daniel Jones, he's maybe the number one example of like the hype going into the NFL and you know, just not living to expect, playing to expectations and you know not being on a team anymore. Like it's, you know, and he's 27 so he had a few years to figure it out, but CJ Stroud is still 23, did really well in his first year, got his team into the playoffs in second year and yeah, if he goes deep into the playoffs, I think that changes a little bit. You know, actually I think that changes a lot in terms of his market. I think people will start to really chase CJ Stroud even more, especially if he could beat the Chiefs next game. But yeah, I do agree with you as well that in the NFL, and we're not really football card collectors or even experts, but at the same time, we know that everyone targets the QB and the QB is such a, is the position really that matters the most in football and in football cards and you know, you look at next year's draft, we're talking about Cam Ward and Shadur Sanders, those guys, they're going to take something to the spotlight next year, you know, and people are going to start chasing those cards to your point. So yeah, I think, I don't know, I wouldn't be surprised if we do see at least one CJ Stroud card still in the top 10. I don't think so. You're talking me out of it too. I'm like, yeah, probably not. I feel like most honestly, every year in and year out, I feel like most of the top 10 graded will be rookie cards. Most of that list will be the base game, you know, grading the base cards right when they come out and just trying to flip for profit. Yeah. Fair enough. Fair enough. All right. Okay. Let's talk about something you're more familiar with and as our hockey card expert guy in this podcast, Conor Bedard. We talked about him a bit last episode, but the question is, do you think the Bedard hype is officially over? I think it's certainly simmering down. I'm sure there are a lot of people that think and still think Bedard is a generational talent. So there's still going to be pretty hefty demand for him regardless. And I'm sure when we go to the April Expo, we'll probably see that. The thing I was shocked about on the list most was when you said Conor Bedard is whatever number he was, six or seven with 15,000 graded young guns. I don't know if I've ever seen that number, like 15,000. And from what I understand, young guns is not like prism base, right? Like if you buy a hobby box, probably likely to get a one B base card, you know, pretty unexciting. But Conor Bedard, like a young guns of a specific player is not easy to hit. So the fact that there's 15,000, number one, that's crazy. Number two, that's a lot of boxes ripped of Upper Deck. Man, Upper Deck probably made a ton of money this year just on Conor Bedard, geez. Well, I mean, yeah, the numbers definitely surprised me, but at the same time, it doesn't. You know, when we're talking about Bedard, when he first came out, the hype was unreal. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, like some of us, some of us even went on getting, trying to get his future watch auto. Like, you know, that was $400 down the drain, but we're in on the Bedard hype as well. Yeah. I think the Bedard hype certainly simmered, but again, Bedard was put into the same light as Crosby, McDavid. He was kind of like the next up in terms of generational talents. So he's going to still have some decent lasting power in terms of his hype. I would assume, like next year is going to be Celebrini in terms of Younguns, but I would assume the Celebrini, I mean, Celebrini is having an incredible season. He's nasty. I think he'd be just as good. I was going to ask you about him. Yeah. Very, very similar talents, but I feel like the hype won't, because Bedard hype was beyond hockey market. Like, I think a lot of people just wanting to chase something that's outside of the hockey market saw the name Bedard, similar to Wemby, similar to Kate McClard, and you're just kind of going all in on it. So Celebrini won't be as, you know, that name isn't as marketed in terms of hype outside of hockey. So I think the Bedard hype will probably still live on next year. In terms of grading, no, absolutely not because the Younguns is where the number's at. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one question about Bedard I want to ask you is, so I'm checking his stats halfway through the season now, pretty much, and he's at 40 points, so he's still having a pretty good season. If you extrapolate that, he's going to be an 80 point season, which is really good, right? Do you think, I mean, the Blackhawks are an awful team, but as they improve, do you think Bedard will be more of a factor in terms of, you know, within the hobby? Do you know what I mean? Like when you play for a better team, maybe he'll get some of the highlights and some of the spotlight again. I think somebody like Bedard is an undeniable talent, right? I think, I don't see, I don't think you can foresee flop. I don't think you can foresee like him just all of a sudden, kind of like Trevor Zegers, right? Everyone thought he was going to be a stud star, maybe not generational, but he's just, I don't know what happened to the kid, you know, but he's fallen off the map. But Bedard, I don't think people are pretty confident that's not Bedard's trajectory. His trajectory is superstar. The question is, is he a McDavid superstar or is he like McKinnon superstar, right? So that's probably what you're going to have to kind of watch out for in terms of investment and money. I feel like he'll be more on that sort of McKinnon, Dreisaitl, Mawson Matthews territory, which is phenomenal. That's pretty good. He's a stud. I'll take that. Like, no, there's no question. I think he's fully worthy of investment money. Maybe not the early time, like that super, super hype. Get off the hype a little bit, but sometime next year, sometimes the year after, if you really believe Bedard is somebody long-term, like you would invest in McKinnon or you would invest in somebody else, look at just, you know, look at McKinnon's prices and pattern. I think that can really open your eyes to when you should be investing in Bedard. It's certainly not this year. And it's great that prices are going down, but I still don't think you should pump a lot of money, unless you're going to try to flip, but I still think it has ways to come down. Yeah, no, I agree. And I think part of the hype too was that upper deck, I believe it was this past year or the year that Bedard had his cards in, it was the one of one gold outburst chase. Right. Do you know what I mean? The one of one card where we didn't have that before in previous upper deck, series one or series two. I don't even think it got pulled. And I don't think, no, I don't think anyone's found it yet. I was about to say that. So it's still out there, I guess, or it hasn't been revealed if someone has it. But yeah, and you already talked about this, because I actually wanted to talk to you about Celebrini, but you don't have to now, because you kind of mentioned that you're high on him. You know how I found out about Celebrini? Because I'm not, I don't follow hockey that closely these days, but I found out about Celebrini from Draymond Green, because he was doing an interview, and he's like wearing the San Jose Sharks uniform, which looks weird for on Draymond. And he says something like he knew Celebrini since he was 10 years old. And like, he's like, oh, yeah, back then, he said, he asked me if I was going to go number one. And then even back then, Celebrini was like, yeah, of course, or something like that. Like he was that confident as a kid. And then he's like, now seeing Celebrini play, you know, he's a, I guess he has a number one fan in Draymond Green. So then I checked his stat after that interview, I'm like, oh, wow, he's pretty damn good. And, and yeah, his Young Guns is coming out, I think, what, the next upper deck? Next season. So I'm sure that'll be the chase. All right. So there you go. The three players on the top 10. And do you have anyone that you expect might be on this list? At the end of 2025? Any thoughts on that? I'm surprised Caitlin Clark wasn't on it. But perhaps that's a that's a function of how much prism was released. Right? Who? I don't know. Like, who's coming next year? So I mean, if you well, we're talking about the next NFL quarterback, so maybe Cam Ward or Shudor Sanders, one of them might be on the list. I think, you know, yeah, that seems to be the pattern for sure. There's gonna be one or two. I would agree one of the very good chance one of those quarterbacks will be on that list. And then for sure, for sure basketball, yeah, I would assume I will reserve two, three spots for Wemby. And then whoever is, you know, the next class up is it because basketball is a basketball is a year behind, right? Cooper flag? No. Oh, that's right. So we might not see a Cooper flag card. This year. I'm not sure. I'm not sure how that works. Anyone in hockey? Or you think Bedard was kind of this anomaly? I think Bedard was a bit of an anomaly. Anomaly. Yeah. But I mean, who knows? Right? Because like, if Upper Deck prints triple the amount, and the Celebrity Young Guns is gets easier and easier to get. I don't know. At least you can get 15 Young Guns in a hobby box or something like I could see just by sheer volume Celebrity being in there. But if I was a betting man, I'll say no, not top 10. Yeah, no, I agree as well. And you know, I was thinking as I was looking over this list last week when Hyeong was on the on the show when we did quiz show with you guys. Baseball was the number one sport that was the most graded, right? But we don't have any baseball player in the top 10. And I think that might be a function of there's just more players in MLB teams. So more players to grade in general, and maybe not one player, you know, might dominate in terms of having their one card graded. I don't know. But it was kind of interesting to see that. And Bowman draft, and Bowman as well, right? Right. Yeah, yeah. I mean, if maybe if Warmbie didn't exist, then there might have been a baseball player that got stuck in like crept into the top 10. Yeah, I think though, I think the Wemby numbers were just so absurd that it didn't leave room for anyone else. Actually, you're really supposed to be looking at numbers 10 through 20 to get a real. You know, I'll do that for you guys next next week. And we'll go through this as a shorter segment. That's true. All right. Oh, before we go on to our next segment, I thought I reserved number nine. There's one non-active player on the list. Which card do you think that is iconic? Maybe it's on year after year. I was not expecting it. But actually, it's a baseball player. Speaking of baseball player, there's one baseball player, but he's not on any active roster. It's his rookie card. Wow. Not on an active roster, rookie card? He's not playing now. The player is not playing now because he's long retired, but it is his rookie card. And it's an iconic rookie card. How could there be that many graded still and he's well that that's a clue right what era would have that many cards still to be rated I mean it's gotta be junk wax mm-hmm but it's not the Griffey it's the Griffey is it Jr. 1989 Ken Griffey about 10,000 were graded in 2024 holy cow number nine on that's wild I mean that also shows you you know how we're surprised at 15,000 cards graded of the Bedard young guns but 10,000 still that's insane a card from the junk wax era this is this is the era we collected in when there are billions of cards out there hence why none of us are rich from our cards today do you think you know going back to the very beginning you're talking about you know what's the state of the hobby because I think I wouldn't assume the 10,000 like 95% of that is not people ripping 89 offer deck it's people kind of coming back to the hobby and being like hey I have the Griffey from back in a day you know I it's probably not a great condition but just at a sentimental value I'll get it graded you know or I'll you know my friend Clark is into cards and I have this Griffey you know I'd be interested and I've heard about this grading card thing please get it graded for me I feel like majority of that is people kind of discovering their old sets and and kind of maybe dabbling back into the hobby which is a great sign actually for sure I didn't think about that but yeah and that goes to show you the strength of baseball card collecting you know like we always think like the basketballs in the spotlight more often especially in terms of the sport itself and football obviously right now and and baseball seems to always be neglected or or highly criticized for the pace of the game but a lot of us our age at least are we're primarily baseball card collectors growing up right that's just what we collected so yeah no I agree with you in terms of that being a good and bullish sign of people getting back into the hobby that's interesting thought all right yeah good one I'll I'm really curious now after I after we finished recording this podcast I'm gonna see what number 11 to 20 were and see how many of them are baseball players or non 1b players so we'll see okay let's go to our next segment we are calling buy sell hold all right so we haven't done this segment in a while but it's essentially I'm gonna give you four or five cards and I'm gonna give you the current values and you tell me if you had it or if you didn't would you be buying now at the price that I stated selling or holding all right so I'm gonna start with hockey since it's just you and I for this pod and I just read an article I think I was on Sports Illustrated and the title was something like the young guns card that everyone's chasing now and it's not who you think okay Montreal Canadiens defenseman do you know who I'm talking about I've never heard of this guy but I bet you have yeah it's a oh my goodness what's his face the American kid that did the saucer pass Lane Lane Lane Hudson Hudson young guns PSA 10 selling for about 560 now and it's up from 300 just a month ago so I guess he's making a splash so yeah let's start off with Lane Hudson young guns what are you doing with this card um I don't what I haven't even fought like what what are his stats and you know it's and he's uh isn't he leading in terms of rookie rookie rookie defense 30 over 35 points pretty decent yeah he's a defenseman yeah you know what I I'm if I had it I'm definitely 100% selling and the young defenseman making a splash splash early on defense is so difficult for a young player you don't really become a great defense defenseman until you're 20 26 27 and above so for a young guy to bake it make a big splash yeah yeah perhaps he becomes the next kill my car which is great but he's gonna go through his ups and downs and and actually he still faces as much as his highlight real is highlight real package is amazing the real hockey world in terms of you know outside of sports cars like he does face a lot of criticism because of his lack of defense and his you know lapse in judgment and a lot of errors and that's what happens with a young defenseman at such a critical position so I think the hype on him will certainly die down just hype concept alone it'll die down no knock on the player and also he's at the let's remember he's a defenseman right so you follow Bedard's pricing pattern you look at McKinnon and that can kind of help the the long-term outlook of where you should be spending money and it in terms of defenseman I think the perfect example is look at somebody like kill my car kill my car is is I think pretty exceptional in terms of defenseman's pricing but another one to really look at is Quinn Hughes so he came out of the gates firing great and his prices were bonkers hype alone and then the following season he had a you know to his standard pretty subpar and kill my car kind of took the spotlight and his pricing probably really start to bottom out and Quinn Hughes is back to being in Norris contention and being you know one of the top defensemen in the league in terms of offensive production so I think you see his price kind of rebound right so you have to kind of look at somebody like Quinn Hughes to see where like Lane Hudson would be yeah I think it's gonna come down for sure so set for sure so there's a bit long-winded but yeah so you know I'm I'm not gonna say much because I'm gonna take your word for it and that's a nice 2x in a matter of months to invest in a Ford that's what I would be doing if I had Lane Hudson right if I had a Lane Hudson young guns card all right the next two are still our players that have seen nice bumps for various reasons okay and then the last two I'll reserve for cars have dropped in value I'm curious to see if you rather if you would buy them at that price point but the next two Lamar Jackson is silver prism PSA 10 his cards sold for $4,000 just yesterday January 15 at the start of the season it was going for 2,000 so increased double pop count 28 for his 2018 silver prism yeah I am definitely selling for sure like at this point Lamar I mean Lamar Jackson's done great he went through the height he went through the hype season he went through facing criticism and as his pricing kind of like bottomed out and he's now I think he is proving to everybody he's a legitimate stud like a legitimate long-term stud this is no fluke he's here to stay but at this point he's got a win he has to win he's got a goat roll through the bills or roll through I'm seeing I haven't why I didn't get to watch the playoffs but you know I'm assuming bills and chiefs are obviously still in it but he's got a roll through some big heavy hitters and he has to win the ring for his pricing to sustain so we always talked about it Super Bowl it's it's the the playoff pricing and the lead into the playoffs is where you see all the bumps so I would just stay away enjoy the playoffs have fun watching football but in terms of investing I would stay away and if you really believe in Lamar Jackson which I think is valid it's gonna be something sometime sometime you know something in the offseason that you should yeah in terms of making a move now you know if he wins the Super Bowl that's the little percent chance that you're kind of taking a risk on but I think it yeah I was still bet on the Chiefs so yeah I'm even even three repeating a so like yeah I think I'd put the Chiefs on repeat when we did our early predictions but it was it was more a function of like enjoying my homes and his dynasty and all that talk but anyways yeah well you're still right as of this recording but um Lamar Jackson I I would do the same as you take the 2k profit but at the same time I wouldn't be I wouldn't be mad about anyone's you know just keeping it and holding it long term do you know I mean like I think I think he's a viable long tomorrow because mainly also because of the low pop count 28 is super low in terms of silver prism PSA 10s like you know these days we're used to PSA 10 silver prisms especially in basketball side of things being in the thousands so 28 and if you think Lamar Jackson is legit a silver prism is a nice rookie card to have you know one of the better ones to have so I think I think it's if you're gonna keep it I would just keep it for the long term like you'll probably see a dip if he doesn't win the Super Bowl but I think he has a chance to rebound as as he continues to play in what I expect to be a pretty damn good career so yeah but for me personally I would I would flip in and take that 2k profit in the short term all right I feel like you're gonna say the same thing as me we're all about taking profits especially when they're playing well but this this might have an added wrinkle this is why I included him Shea Gilgis Alexander Canadian boy we love our Canadian basketball players I know you do especially his silver prism PSA 10 625 at the beginning of the season currently going for 800 right now he could win the MVP this year he's having a phenomenal season love rooting for him does that all any of that play a factor in you either buying selling what's uh what's Lucas at I'm sure he's getting pretty close to that over a thousand just over a thousand yeah oh you know what a low being biased I think there's you know you could argue 800 bucks is like MVP is almost almost baked in I could see that argument right but does does this card have thousand dollar potential you know creeping into the Lucas area especially if he wins MVP and we're okay see is as a team yeah I could see that how about pop count does that play a factor so the Lucas pop cons obviously over to 2000 and the pop count for SGA's silver prism is 680 I remember there being some quality issues with Shea's card which is cool to see yeah you know what I think I don't know if it's a buy but I'm okay with a hold on this one if you have it because you know what's six low of 650 a high of 800 we're not talking a big difference between the high and the low I think she is now he's starting to create the bottom for his card based on who he is as a player and as he goes up so I think if someone were to say you know a year from now 800 is kind of the bottom number on the on the silver yeah you know what I agree I think it's Shea deserves more credit than where his pricing has been so if this is the sign of Shea's price being the floor yeah it's like it's a good hold and if somebody told me by I wouldn't disagree either so I'm gonna say hold yeah and this is boring because I'm going with hold too but I think it's our Canadian bias is coming through right now so take that as a you know with a grain of salt yeah all right last two these are prices that have come down so I'm curious to see what you would do with these cards 2023 prism we're staying with prism silver of Giannis Antetokounmpo PSA 10 with a pop count of 85 in December of 2024 sorry did you say 2023 prism you might have said sorry it's 2013 prism yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah 2013 my bad silver prison PSA 10 it sold just last month for 6,700 okay Wow a couple of years ago two years ago to this day sold for 14,530 so it's down 50% from two years ago right Wow my only memory of like I haven't followed the honest in terms of his pricing at all my only memory is watching a Jeff Wilson video of him I think trading for or buying and I think he bought it at 15 or 16 or 17,000 so that's the number I had in mind so to see it at 6,000 yeah I don't know I don't know even though it's at a low point I think I'm still going to say hold because I don't he's already won you know unless he's which he could but yeah unless he wins multiple and he keeps going I think his market is pretty stable so if you have it long-term hold I'm pretty okay with it I don't think it's a you know if you have $6,500 right now it's like you got to go by Giannis I don't think so even if they win I feel like Dame is gonna kind of take the spotlight like I see Dame card having potential in terms in terms of a next if bucks win again rather than like a you know all Giannis has to ring sort of deal so I think Giannis is pretty stable I think it's it's a great investment but it's not something you have to take advantage of right now so it's a hold for me yeah maybe a 5k maybe that's the number for me that would buy right but at the same time if it ever hits 5k I'll be like maybe 4k like it's one of those guys he's one of those guys where it's like wow why is there no hobby love for Giannis like relatively speaking to what he's accomplished do you know I mean so I he's one of those guys I put in that bucket where the hobby just you know doesn't have this reverence for Giannis as he probably should have more of. So that's why I'm kind of iffy. I would still love to have Iana's card, I think he's an amazing player. But yeah, I guess at that price point, it's... That's a big, that's like a grail chasing for us, right? In terms of where we are. So I think, you know, at 6k, you know, there's a lot of cards you can talk about, right? Like I would want a Kobe patch auto or something similar. Or, you know, Barry Bond's Tiffany PSA 10. Like, there are tons of... I would rather if you're grail hunting at that money, if that's a big number for you, certainly put into something a lot more safer. Yeah, I agree. Totally. All right, last one. Silver Prism. Wow, I didn't even realize I did four Silver Prisms in a row, but it'll be the Silver Prism edition. We're going back to football to end it. Jordan Love got out of the playoffs just this past week. His rookie card Silver Prism PSA 10 sold for $1,200 at the beginning of the season. And it's currently going for... It sold last sold for $750, but then I think it'll dip to probably $600, which it did a couple weeks ago. So at half price, would you take it? Would you take Jordan Love's Silver Prism PSA 10? I haven't watched Jordan Love at all. To be honest, I didn't watch almost any football this year other than highlights. I'm assuming he made the playoffs. If he made the playoffs, then he had a pretty good season. I know early on preseason edition of our show, I said I could see Jordan Love being, you know, not the legit quarterback. He's kind of like more on the hyped side, right? Like he doesn't have that kind of like pedigree upside that you're kind of looking for. And I don't know if I ate my words on that. If people now believe that he's a legitimate number one here to stay. Yeah, he was injured as well. So that had a part to play part of the season. Yeah. I don't know. I'm gonna stick to my words, man. I still don't know. There's just so many other big names in football that he's just the type of name kind of like a Jalen Hurts. I just got to sort of get, you know, even Justin Herbert now, I think even him is going to kind of get lost in the shuffle of so many quarterbacks. I put Jordan Love in that category, like unless he starts winning, you know, legitimate Super Bowls, he's going to be in a big lull at this point. So I and he doesn't, or maybe he does, you know, I don't know, but I don't see him as like a pedigree quarterback. So yeah, put him put him out of cell. I'm going to put him at cell. Giving up on Jordan. Take advantage of that playoff, a little bit of a hype. And yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was never a big Jordan Love guy. But I think I agree with the Herbert comparison, like he's got to start winning in games that matter. And I put a IG reel recently of Justin Herbert. And that's one guy I'm eating my words. I think I said Herbert could be a guy this year, everything breaks one. He had an okay regular season, but him losing in the playoffs, like you should hear the, or you should look at the comments that I'm getting from that reels. Like, he's done, he's getting torched. Yeah. And I think, you know, Jordan Love, maybe he has a bit of a longer leash because he's younger, I believe. But he's, I think he's going to experience the same thing if he doesn't win in big games, like Justin Herbert can't do. Right. So, so yeah, I think there's just other guys, more exciting guys to target at that, even at that 500, $600 price point. So I'm with you. I'm selling. All right. There's your segment of buy, sell, hold this week. And yeah, we'll do another one in the future. All right. Let's end off our show with our regular weekly segment called pick one. And I'll start off because I kind of teased it off because I kind of teased it at the beginning of the show, but it's about Wembe. And I'm seriously considering this and I'm going back and forth. Okay. It's between a Wembe tops, Chrome refractor on card autograph card, but obviously being tops Chrome, it's unlicensed and it's a prom pose. I love the prom pose. Cause it's kind of, you know, you can't really tell that there's no logo. It looks like it's, you know, specifically designed to hide that fact, but, and it's an on-card auto. So as a refractor, so it's a little bit short printed. I think all the base ones have sticker autos. So the refractor one has on-card autos versus a comparable valued Wembe licensed prism, rookie card, and maybe maybe numbered. So it's, it won't be one of the true colors. Obviously those cost a lot more, but you know, there's, there's a million parallel prisms. One of the numbered ones that's comparable in pricing to like a tops Chrome refractor on-card auto of Wembe. Which one are you going for? Truthfully? I feel it's a pretty easy for me. I'm actually, I'm going with on-card auto, man. All right. Okay. There's, I think it's a mixture of everything. I think the new space, the current state of the hobby is back on, remember hobby logic, but it's back on chasing autographs. Like that's, that's especially fanatics. Like fanatics has really marketed like all of these athletes and showing pictures of, you know, video footage of people signing their autographs. Like autographs is really kind of blossoming right now, especially on-card because you know, people, I would assume most people hate sticker and base, even numbered base. I think a lot of that is starting to take a backseat. And a lot of the prism base is still on the heels of all of the hype. Like it's still kind of there. And then third layer is prism. Like I don't know where prism is going to land in terms of the landscape of branding within like being the, the prism was the king. It was like looked at as, you know, you're going to go for 2012, 2013, like prism is like the, you know, brand to chase and going forward. I don't know if that's the case. And I don't know if tops Chrome becomes the brand again, where that leaves prism and where that leaves even prism legacy cars, like back in, back in the day, is it still going to be viewed as like, this is the, the card or our people start going to, they're going to start chasing on-card autos of alternate brands. Right. So I think to me from a vision, you know, even if it was a personal for a collection standpoint, the on-card first year tops, I think it makes all the sense in the world. And then when we're looking at the hobby landscape in terms of investment, I don't know. I I'm, if I'm putting money into it, I'm going tops Chrome auto on-card auto. All right. Nice. I was hoping you say that because I was leaning heavily towards tops Chrome. Refractor on-card auto. And, um, I did a couple of poll on, on mantle, this new platform that I'm testing out and as well as on YouTube. And there's a bunch of people that rather have the prism. So I'm like, I don't know. Should I go for the prism now? Like, is that what people want? Yeah. The market is speaking that way. Right. But I mean, it's obviously a very small sample size, but, um, my heart is for tops Chrome on-card auto, um, without the license. And, uh, yeah, I mean, we'll, we'll talk about this next year, but when the tops Chrome licensed auto comes out, that's going to be, I'm sure a big chase, especially for one B one B a fan. So, um, all right. That helps me a lot, actually. I'm going to keep my tops Chrome refractor on-card auto on my watch list. And hopefully, hopefully I get a good deal on if you get it and that goes down, just don't blame me. Don't worry. All right. One V one. So I think we've, we touched on this, but we all saw the news of the guy who erased the Otani auto and then got Otani to sign at congee. So my one V one is if you ever had that opportunity, would you do the same delete the existing auto and get him to sign congee? Or would you rather him sign the second congee on the card somewhere? So have two autos, one, the normal auto, and then the congee auto on the same card could be on the backside. Could both could be on the front. Would you rather him sign it twice with, with the congee or delete it and put the congee like the guy did? Well, there is that dual auto card that is out there now, right. One congee, one English. Oh, is there, I didn't know that. There's a, yeah. Or is it an actual car? No actual card. Yeah. It's a chase in like a top's definitive. I can't remember the set this year, but maybe, yeah, maybe you weren't on that episode, but there's one that exists already. But if I had a chance to get one like that, or it's easy. I mean, okay. Well first, if I wipe it, is it guaranteed that he's going to sign in congee? He could say, you know, no, I don't want to sign it. And then now I have a card with no, let's say he's 100% going to sign it in congee. Okay. He says, Clark, just come by, give me the card you want to sign. Right. Okay. Okay. I would have both. I like both. I think when, well, you missed that episode, I guess. So when we talked about it, I didn't even listen to it either. So my bad. But when we talked about it, we're like, oh, that's sick. Like, I think the general reaction is that this is a cool card. Right. So I don't, you know, if I could have that to myself, why not? So yeah, I'll go for the dual. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking the same thing. I, when I heard the news of the guy deleting, I thought, why wouldn't you just get the congee auto somewhere else? I get it though. Cause visually it may not look as nice because the rest of the card is pretty dark. So you're going to have the congee kind of in a dark spot. Um, but I would even think, oh yeah, sign the back, you know, across the backside congee. And if you get that PC graded, I think that would be such an incredible, it would have been so much better as like a one of one kind of card, like a unique one of one than deleting it. And you know, visually I think what he did looks probably the best, but yeah, I'm, I'm definitely, if you could take that back and do it all over again. Yeah. I would say the dual auto would have been much cooler. All right. There you go. There's the congee English auto dual auto sweep for that creative pick one from John. All right. That's the end of the episode. Thanks again to all our listeners and subscribers. We appreciate you guys. And we'll have a brand new episode for you on Friday. Talk to you then. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening to cards to the moon. We'd really appreciate you subscribing to our podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts. And you can also connect with each of us on Instagram at five card guys, or you can follow him at integrity sports cards or John at trade you at recess. You can also check us out at five card guys.com. Thanks again and hope to connect soon.