Why Collectors Follow Consensus + GOAT Cards vs Contrarian Thinking + Hidden Hobby Opportunities

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Michael Jordan Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now Jeremy Lee in the building and every guest that you ever needed Sports cards after hours keep the hobby heated Updates homie talk like you never seen it Sports cards live and I could ever beat it Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host, Jeremy Lee. Okay, let's go to Joe Perot. So, yeah, I would, I would respond in a general sense to this question as yes, with the cat. A big caveat that, you know, just goat cards, not all goat cards are created equal. You know, there's, there's a lot of different ways to deploy your, your goat fundage. And so within that, I think there's ways that you can get into stagnant waters and find yourself sort of locked into something that maybe doesn't excite you all that much. But you did it because you felt like this was the blue chip opportunity. And then between fees and, or a market that might go this direction or that direction, you have to, you know, get out of it. And it's like, well, did I really actually, you know, was it a blue chip opportunity or was it just something where I kind of got, you know, a little simple in my own approach and, and ended up not, you know, taking a swing, a bigger swing at, at the, at the fence. So I would say that yes, and myself included, I've, I've defaulted in the direction of goats for reasons of feeling secure. But at the same time, it's, it's, it's very important what type of goat cards you're actually targeting. I completely agree with that last bit that I came back for. I think that's, I think that's the nuance and the subtlety to all of this is that just because you. There are goat cards that are not gonna hold their value because they're overprinted, over graded, and over is a weird term, but they're just heavily graded, heavily printed, that kind of thing. So I don't know. I'm sure I missed a lot of that, Joe, but I certainly resonated with the last part of it. I'm gonna go to a comment from Jeff Hart. Patriot Sports Cards. A great collector says you can overpay for goats based on where certain areas of the market are. So I don't think all is safe. However, I think the risk or downside can be less. That's a great perspective to take, is that, you know, the risk can be less. Less volat. There's less volatility, I think is another way to look at it. When it comes to the goats, they're going to more or less. Their, their chart is going to more or less mirror the general economy versus what happened last night in the game or an injury or all these things that we do tend to talk about. Do we want to go to David Chase? I mean, I have a very simple, fast answer to this. I mean, I kind of aversion grief with. With Josh where, yeah, the goats are the most safe ways you can collect. But also with Joe said the cards matter, right? So, you know, you're a Hoops Jordan card is probably not the safest investment in the world, but possibly a lot of his other cards are more. So. Yeah, if you want a safe investment, go for the best of all time. And I don't really collect prospects, so for me, I kind of look at that as the lesser tier all stars and hall of Famers are probably not as safe as the goats, you know. Yeah, that makes sense. Michael Raider here says every collection should include goats if you can afford them. There is great satisfaction in having goats in your collection. That's a, that's a, a personal comment, though. I think there is great satisfaction in having goats in your collection. Does that hold true for everybody? I have to think there are some people who collect players that they've met in person or saw play live in their hometown, maybe their college team. And they're not goats. They're far from goats. Maybe only you and their mother collects their cards and that could be highly satisfying as well. So I, I appreciate the comment from Michael Raider, but I don't know if I totally agree that it's a. In the general way that it's worded, although I'm sure Michael Raider is smart enough to. To recognize that that is not going to resonate with everybody. But I subscribe to what he's saying here. I. I take. I get great satisfaction from having goats in my collection. And I think I could go as far as saying that almost every collection could have goats in it if those people were open to it. And I think most people. I think many people are open to it. But yeah, just some comments on that. Jesse here says, does goat mean players or just the iconic cards? We're talking players in this case, Jesse just. We're talking players for sure. Bob Boozle says, I collect Tonus Wagner's right now I have zero. The collection firm says I've had more exciting. I've had a more exciting time the last decade collecting Jameis Winston and Cody Bellinger than I can ever imagine. It's wonderful. Wonderful. And Bob Boozle says, I feel bad for LeBron collectors who are left out of this goat discussion. Ooh, low blow. Low blow. Bob Boozle. Tim says Kobe has way more collectibility than LeBron. And I just gotta say I agree with that based on my observations I made at recent shows where I've had In my showcases LeBron's Jordans, Kobe's, Griffeys, Brady's. And Kobe is far and away asked about more than any other player in the hobby. I think. I think from what I've seen, my perception is that Kobe is the number one player in the whole hobby. Not for value, not at goat status. None of that player that people want hobby love. I think nobody gets more hobby love than Kobe Bryant right now. That's my personal experience this year, 2026. So. Yeah. All right. All right, guys. Well, thanks for joining me here tonight on Sports Cards Live. So far. So far. That's it. Chris, what else is on you? I mean, this whole goat versus safe investing goat came up through a discussion we were having in a group chat. And Josh Adams says topic for sports cards live. So that's what brought it up. So thanks to Josh. Yeah, Josh, you are the one who sparked this whole discussion. That was you, buddy. That was you. I refresh my recollection on this one. It's too late, buddy. All right, all right, Right. Too. Too late for that hobby. Champ says, I don't think it's fair to compare LeBron to Kobe in the hobby. Kobe wasn't all that collectible last year's of his career. We have to compare the times. No, no, we don't. Hobby champs. We're talking about right now. I'm talking about right now. We cannot change the past. We can only impact the future and we can only observe what's going on right now. I think it's totally fair to compare LeBron to Kobe in the hobby today. I hear what you're saying in that you can't. Things change. Things change, but that's just how. How it goes. Jeff says once you dive deep into a player, there's goats of the goats, I. E. You learn what cards matter. Ooh, that's a Chris Hoge specialty right there. Learning and, and, and doing your research into what cards truly do matter. Chris, what do you think? Any other thought, Anything else going through that philosophical and inquisitive brain of yours right now? Yeah, yeah, I have thoughts on this topic. So I think the financial non financial discussion is so interesting and I think I can actually answer the financial question by explicitly not thinking about it in financial terms. What is it? Don't. Isn't this the question that's burning everybody? Why is it safe? Why is it safe in the first place that we can collect the quote unquote goats and we should expect there to be less risk involved? Why is that the case? And I think it's the case for evolutionary and cultural reasons. I think it's safe. So for example, I was talking to somebody today, I was talking to a brand new collector today who was, you know, asking me sort of, you know, who, you know, I want to collect Michael Jordan. And I'm thinking about Curry because I think Curry is going to be beloved 10 or 20 years from now. And I see you collect Joic, but I'm worried he's going to be like Tim Duncan and he's just going to fade from the limelights and he's not going to be like a big culturally relevant figure and stuff and totally valid concerns. But, you know, so. But he was as much coming from a place of prudence and a place of fear. A place of fear that what if I pick the wrong guy that the group isn't going to go along with and it comes back to the group. That's why I said evolution. That's why I said culture, evolutionary biology, evolutionary anthropology in particular, because why is there safety in consensus? Why do we even have consensus? Would we even have consensus if we didn't have the ability to look over to our left, what's he doing? Look over to our right, what's he doing? Oh, okay. So that can sort of set the guide for me. That can set the mold for me. So let. So for example, why even is there a consensus goat? I. I know a guy who is a little bit older than me. He knows I'm a huge Michael Jordan acolyte and this guy's a big Larry Bird guy. And he says, yeah, you know, you like Jordan. But everybody knows that the refs gave Jordan all the calls. Everybody knows that Jordan played during a watered down era, during an expansion era. And everybody knows that when Larry Bird played Michael Jordan in the playoffs, he swept him and it was never even particularly close. So, yeah, Bird played in an earlier period than Jordan did, but Bird kicked Jordan's butt up and down the street, and it was never even particularly close between them. And you can even ask Jordan. He'll tell you that Bird kicked his butt too. So, so why did. So does Jordan have to be that guy's go to. Does that guy have to go along with the rest of us and say Jordan's the goat? No, of course not. That guy can have his own opinion. And I think that if, if you wiped all of our memories and, and then started from scratch, we can't. I can't know what Josh with David with Joe and Jeremy thinks. I don't get to see you guys like, like we're on Jeopardy. And they're like, okay, you don't know anything about the history of basketball. I'm gonna let you look through the record books for a day, and then you have to come back and tell me who you think the goat is. And you don't get to see what any of your peers or contemporaries. You don't get to see what anybody else thinks. You just get to look at the record books and you have to come up with your vote. I bet the five of us would come up with five different votes. But over time, maybe David would make a very compelling case for Kareem Abdul Jabbar. And all of a sudden we'd all sort of start swaying in his direction before you know there's going to be a consensus. And that's for evolutionary reasons that going along with the group being altruistic as opposed to being a lone wolf, being somebody who will sacrifice to go along to get along. There was always evolutionary advantages to that. You. You would, your genetics would pass along if you were able to find shelter and belong to the group. And so that's why I think there's a real mechanism there for why consensus even exists. But, but to the point here. I think if we all had a chance to come up with our own goat, somebody like, let's say David took careem. And he would say, Look, Kareem has six regular season MVPs, Michael has five, and nobody has more than six. Okay, Kareem has more regular season MVPs. Or maybe Bob Boozle, because we know he loves LeBron. But Bob would say, Look, LeBron has 42,000 career points. He has more points than anybody. He has 10,000 more career points than Michael Jordan does. Or maybe Joe will take Wilt Chamberlain. He'll say, yeah, Michael Jordan was great. He had 10 scoring titles, you know, will average 50 points in a season. How can you say Michael Jordan is better than a guy who averaged 50 points in a season? Or you can come to me and I can say, I can put on my nerdy glasses and say Nikola Jokic has the highest advanced stats of any player ever. He, we will have these, all these debates will all come to a guy who we think is the goat. It's only through the social pressure, it's only through the culture, it's only through the community that we ultimately form a consensus around who it is. And then we have influencers, we have Stephen A. Smith, we have espn, we have the talking, we have Bill Simmons, who, you know, then they coalesce and they form and they and they. And the opinion crystallizes and becomes concrete. Then before you know it, we're all just sort of agreeing that, yeah, Michael Jordan's the goat. I'm going to read some stats and then I'm going to be done with this. Okay? I'm going to compare John Havlicek's career resume to Michael Jordan. This is a great meme. Every time this meme goes around, I think about this. John Havlicek made 11 all NBA teams. Michael Jordan made 11 all NBA teams. John Havlicek was a 13 time all star. Michael Jordan was a 14 time all star. John Havlicek has eight championships. We know some guys who love the championship. Michael Jordan has six, Havlicek was eight. And oh, in the NBA Finals, Michael Jordan was six, zero. Havlicek has 26,000 career points. Jordan has 32. Havlicek has 8,000 rebounds to Jordan, six. Havlicek has 6,000 assists to Jordan's five. And Havlicek had 31 triple doubles to Jordan's 28. Somebody could make the argument that John Havlicek is an all time great. I think to bring this back home, this is the idea of consensus. This is the idea of how social pressure and evolutionary reasons and culture forces us all for, for logical reasons into a group belief. But I don't know that that would be the case if we all were in our own vacuum. We had to do that thought experiment where we each had to pick the goat and we didn't know what any of the other of us were going to pick. Yeah, I mean, so consensus. We're talking a lot about consensus to, to, to arrive and determine what. Who the goat or the goats are, which is based on a whole bunch of different filters and, and viewpoints and, and criteria based on who the voter really is. Which tells me that if, if, if, if the consensus determines the goat, then consensus is more powerful than stats and accolades and all the things that you just went through, Chris, which is why in the hobby, there's two different discussions. Who's the go to the sport for the stats and the accolades? And then there's who's the goat of the hobby, which is based on more than just stats and accolades. And that's when you bring in. You bring in the intangible concept of hobby love, which is based on everything else. Us. It includes stats and accolades, but includes charisma and it includes highlight reels. It includes the influencers like the Stephen A. Smiths and the other people you mentioned, Chris, and what they've said about it, the influence that they've had. So I think there's so much more to determining who the goat or goats are than just consensus or just stats and accolades. I think it's a mix of all these things. Is it consensus or is it track record? Which one contributes more to determining where the consensus is even going to go or who the goat is? So I think there's, there's, there's a lot there and, and I, you know, it come. It brings me back to Hobby Champs's. Com. I think it was Hobby Champs who made the con. God. I got a few, a few comments here. So I'm a little bit unorganized, guys, right now. As I was, I was really honing on what HOJ was saying and trying to formulate my own thoughts. But Kobe, it comes back to Kobe for a moment. And Ivor here says Kobe's premature death really elevated its collectibility and status in the hobby. And, oh, it's. It's Ivor here as well. If LeBron, he says if LeBron has a premature death like Kobe did, LeBron's card value would surpass Kobe. Kobe's hobby relevance and value increased after his passing. But that's what happened. That doesn't make him any less eligible for hobby goat status than. Than Jordan, LeBron, Kareem or Havlicek. It doesn't matter. All we have are the facts of the sit. The situational facts as they exist right now. Kobe died by a helicopter actor accident. Tragedy shouldn't have happened. And if that's what gave him that iconic goat stat, almost like even what, whatever's higher than iconic, I don't know, godly sort of thing, it's. That even enabled people to oversee some of his flaws, which someone called out in the chat somewhere. That's all that really matters right now. As far as the hobby goes, it doesn't matter that LeBron didn't get killed in a tragic helicopter accident. He didn't. Instead, he's doing things that are pissing people off left, right and center. Or. Or so it seems is what I'm seeing. That. That, that is. Maybe he'd be. Maybe his hobby legacy would be better off. You know, I say this obviously just to make a point. If he did have a. I don't want to say it, but you know what I'm getting at? Like, that's just the way the world works. It's. It's like what if. What if John Lennon didn't get killed when he did? We don't know if he would have gone on to do something really stupid or to continue to be the legend that we all hold him to be. You just don't know what would have happened if somebody died or didn't die early. I don't know. Lots there to the panelists. Put up your hand if you'd like to jump in with anything or I will go to some comments in the chat. Desert Shield Sniper says collecting needs to be fun. If it's just about safety of the roi, stick with stocks. Okay. Josh has given that a thumbs up. I gotta say though, all due respect to Desert Sealed Sniper, a great supporter of mine, so I just want to say that I don't give two hoots about stocks. I. I care about the safety of the value of my cards, but I don't like. And it is fun. It is. So I guess it doesn't apply to me because it's not just about the safety. If it is, stick with stocks. But I would just say that cards are fun. Stocks are not. Unless they are to you. I shouldn't say that. I guess stocks can be fun to somebody to some people. David, please, you're on mute. You're on mute, David, please. So sorry about that. I have a question for you, Jeremy. Would you spend a significant amount of money on a card and that is not a goat? Ooh, ooh, ooh ooh. Good question, David Chase. The significant amounts of money I've spent on cards have gone into really like any time I've spent well into five figures and by that I mean like put a two in front of it. It's either been Michael Jordan or Joe Jackson. That's it. Is Joe Jackson a goat? Probably not. Is the card a goat? It's a card goat. I don't know if he's a goat. So sort of, yeah, I'm a hybrid answer. But I can tell you when I consider. Yeah, probably not, David. Probably not. I probably would not put a significant amount. Now signif what significance I will to me, signif when I start thinking about the financial implications of, of a hobby of a card expenditure, that kind of kicks into me. It, it changes. It really kicks in. Seriously. Probably at about like as low as 250 to 500 bucks. But as like I can sometimes play with a grand but like 2 to 5,000 bucks. I'm definitely, I'm definitely considering the financial implications and I'm sure I've spent that kind of money on non goats before so I know I have. So I think I would. But if we're talking super like I need to, I need to put a line, David, between significant and super significant. Super significant. No, I'm not spending five figures, I don't think on a card and definitely not six. Unless that I, I feel very safe and, and low volatility on that player's value. How about if it's a player that you just really like, Jeremy, I mean even if he's not a goat, why wouldn't you know if it's a joy of collecting? I don't think I. Well, I've done it once. Timo Solani. I bought his shield cards for more money than I wanted to because the joy of collecting because I wanted those cards and I didn't think I'd ever. I mean I shouldn't say I didn't think I'd ever. I hoped I could recover that outlay. But yeah, I bought those cards without any assurance or, or great confidence that I would get my money or a return out of them. So I've done that. Yes, but it's, you know, the other thing I would say is that there's, I don't just get enjoyment from spending a lot of money on Cards. I get enjoyment out of cheap cards. So why do I need to spend a lot of money on a card? But if it's special, I, I, I guess I will. And I have. So, I mean, some of that would also depend on what your goat threshold is. You know, where, where is that delineation for me? Like, there's a few rando, you know, like Kavon Looney. I mean, I didn't, I didn't go crazy, but I, I picked up a few Kavan Loonies just because he's sort of the soul of like a couple championships for the warriors and you know, but, but nothing, nothing too big, David. Nothing too big. But like, are we, is, is Larry Dobie a goat? I mean, I would say he is, but not everybody would, but in my book he is. So I would, you know, I, and I wish, you know, that you're not going to stop hearing about, you know, how you got that Dobie at the, at the Ontario card show in 2024. Was it, I don't know, it was about a year ago. Yeah, good point. Okay, so Michael Raider says, why are goats safe? Like ability, value and demand. I don't know when this happened, but I hit that point where I just don't want to think about my clothes anymore. Like, give me something easy, something comfortable. But still looks like I tried even just a little bit. And that's been Quince for me, guys. They've got all the spring staples. Dialed 100 European linen shirts, shorts starting at 34 bucks. And they're actually good. Lightweight, breathable, not stiff, not boxy, just, just clean. And the Pima cotton tees, I put one on and immediately thought, okay, yeah, this is different. Super soft. Fits right? Doesn't feel like it's going to fall apart after two washes. I grabbed one of their linen shirts recently. It's become one of those pieces I keep reaching for, even without thinking about it just works. Casual, a little bit dressed up, whatever I need. Same thing with the pants. Comfortable, but still looks sharp enough that no one's questioning it. And the wild part is the price. Everything's 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they go straight to ethical factories. They skip the middleman. So you're getting premium stuff without paying premium prices. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.com sportscards for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. It's now available in Canada too. That's q I n c.com sportscards for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quint.com sports cards. I think it's all. Yeah. And all that. I think that those things are dependent somewhat on track record. You know, Jeff says market demand create safety. To be a goat implies general consensus of popularity and excellence. That makes. Makes sense to me. Ivor here says if LeBron. Oh, we did that one already. Skeppy says, that's the analysis I'm talking about. Chris, the new collector is battling to collect before they've even started. Some people are not quite. They know they want to get in, they don't know how, and they're at least they're asking questions. I think that's okay. Jim. Define, says Chris. That's a chicken and egg discussion. Does the individual decisions create the consensus or does the consensus deter the individual decision? I know that Chris is waiting for, like, this is right up your alley. Chris, go ahead. Oh, it's a great comment. And it's right. It's exactly. That's exactly the question to ask. And I don't know, but we can try and figure it out. Now think about this. All right, this is, this is a little experiment that I did on my Instagram about a month ago. And it kind of replicates the thought experiment that I was putting forth. We're like, what if we didn't know anything about the history of basketball and then you let us study about it for a day and then we each had to come back and say who the goat was. Well, I kind of did an experiment like this, but instead of with players, with cards. So as we all know, I've been collecting Michael Jordan one of ones. And some of these are not well known at all. They're from the 90s. 90s is not known for one of ones. So many people have never seen or heard of these cards. And so after I had posted four different Michael Jordan one of ones from the 90s to my Instagram page, I then ran a little poll and I asked people very simply, which of these is your favorite? And I showed them four cards. And the cards were just, you know, there's no point in me even telling you what they are because very few will even would even know what they are in the first place. So I just, I put the picture of it, I put the name of it, and I gave it like a one sentence tagline that sort of like gave you a little insight into what the historical significance of this card was. But you could look at it, you could see what the brand was, you could see the images, you could see the design. And you could see a little quick once one sentence summary. And wouldn't you know, when I put it to a poll, and remember on Instagram, you don't get to see the poll results before you vote, which is very important. You do not get to know how it. How the vote came down until after you voted. And then you get to see how the vote came down. And wouldn't you know, it was almost a perfectly even distribution. It was roughly. Each card got about 25% of the vote. How does it work out that way? What happens is when nobody has the guidance of popular opinion or a proof of a sales history, this one sells for way more than the other. When you just. When everybody had to make up their own mind without being able to rely on consensus or groupthink, the result was a fairly even split. And I bet that would be the result in a lot of situations if we had to completely think for ourselves. Now, with that said, I'm not advocating at all that we as collectors should go against the grain. We should blind ourselves. What other people think. We should completely have this independent judgment. I'm not saying that I don't do that. I don't, and I wouldn't recommend it to anybody either. What I'm saying is that this is part of understanding how demand iconicity, consensus, understanding how those things take shape, understanding how they influence us. And then maybe a very astute collector might, after thinking about these things for a long time, identify areas, cards, players, sets, that this has a ripe potential to be special. But for whatever reason, it's not on the radar right now. For whatever reason, it's not on the hobby's main stage right now. But in. In order to spot those hidden gems, you first have to completely understand how the status quo works and why it works that way. Yeah, yeah. Well said, man. Good, deep stuff. You know, one of the things that you recently talked about on one. One of the Hoag casts, which really, like, hit home for me. I think you were talking about your power deck, one of one card, Chris, and we're talking about iconicity now. And, you know, what makes we talk about what cards are iconic all the time. And oftentimes it's cards of goats become the most iconic cards. And, and it's, you know, early old cards are often very iconic or rare cards, but there's a. There's a. There's an area of the hobby that is ripe for being ahead of the curve, I think. And Chris distilled this down on a recent hoage cast. I think you were talking about the, the, the power deck, Chris, where he says that if you look at what makes a card iconic, you know it's going to be things like an iconic player. Maybe it's a one of one, maybe it's got from, it's from a recognizable brand. Maybe it's got a nice aesthetic. What all the features that make a card iconic might exist in a card that is not iconic. And Chris was saying that, and you can correct me after Chris, but I just, I was just so taken aback by this. It really made me pause. When you bought that card, you bought that power or TR or acquire that Power Deck card. If it was an iconic card, you would have had to pay 30, 40, 50 times what you did. But because no one has claimed it as iconic a hobby, there's no consensus around it being iconic. You got a card that features all the iconic aspects of a card without paying the iconic premium, I think is what you called it, the iconic premium. And to me that's very, I think I was saying this to Joe or David the other day. Very similar to me collecting low grade, high eye appeal cards. I'm buying these amazing cards. They have all the features of a PSA 10, but I'm not paying the PSA 10 premium. I'm paying 5, 10% of what that costs. I'm getting all the same features. It looks just as nice, might not technically be as nice. Looks just as nice to me. Good enough. So that episode, Chris, can you just expand a bit more maybe on what that was? And I'd also like to direct people even to that timestamp of that episode because it was so. Well, because, you know, you're an hour. We do need the timestamp. Yeah, it was short. That was a short rep. I think it was only a 90 minute episode for you, but that was such a eye opener for me. Jeremy, I don't need to add anything. You summarized it perfectly. And it's yet another example on one of the themes of tonight's show, which is borrowing and, and being influenced by the good ideas of other people. I have no doubt that consuming the contents of you, of Greg, of David, of Joe, of Josh, of everybody, that the concepts of finding value, the con, the concepts of avoiding having to pay premiums like the great premium or the iconic premium and some people love to pay those premiums and that's completely fine. I don't want to take away from that. I don't want to say that their stuff is wrongly valued. I'm not trying to say that But I am saying that the structures of thought, it has to have been some spillover from me listening to, talking through these ideas and authentically engaging with them. I'm certain it was influential. But then I took the structure of thought and applied it to my own little lane. And I'm sure that there are people listening to everything that we're saying tonight and they're developing it and it's mutating and it's taking forms that's going to shape the way they collect in ways that we couldn't even predict. I love that. Don't collect what we're collecting unless you really want to. And, and this doesn't just go for me, Chris, the guys on the stage here, what, what I'm trying to get at is if you hear something from anybody you're listening to and that approach makes sense to you or you like that approach, find a way to apply it to your interest, to your lane. Don't apply to what we like unless we like the same thing. Then go ahead, have at or. But if you like, Chris just said he's taken in all this input, all this information from various content creators and somehow processed it, and then that's what he's done. He used it to find something that he thought he was maybe, maybe it's not because he's ahead of the curve, but he happened to be maybe ahead of the curve and could find this value that he didn't have to pay for. It's free value. You're getting all the iconic properties without paying the iconic premium. That's a wonderful place to be. I think that is ahead of the curve, and I think that's going to pay financial dividends whether he cares or not in the future for being that thoughtful about the process and what he likes. So the takeaway for the listeners and viewers is process these various pieces of information that you're hearing from us and others and apply it to what you like. Try to. If you, if you care, you don't. Maybe you don't care, maybe you know what you're collecting, that's fine. But if you are looking for other ways to collect, like I always am, new things, budget, you know, with the budget in mind, that's a great thing, great way to, to approach this hobby, I think. So. I, I love that you brought that back to that, Chris. And I, and I, I loved that episode. And that portion of it specifically was an epiphany in a way, and it was validating for me as well, because I've not just in Finding like a one of one value or an under a low grade high I appeal card. But even other. There are other. It's like you all, we always want to go back in time. Oh, with hindsight. Right. But there's something right now that is, that is going to pop and there's many things right now that no one is really focusing on that are going to pop in the future. And maybe you're onto it if you care about being onto something that could pop in the future. Yeah, to that point. There was some viral thing on social media last week. I don't remember who said it. I don't remember it exactly, but the paraphrase will suffice. The idea was this, the idea was that there is a great competitive advantage among people in entrepreneurial spaces who can withstand being like basically booed and criticized by their peers in the crowd for the longest time. And that's a dangerous strain of thought because what if you're just wildly wrong and people are actually correctly criticizing you and you just sort of like a bull rushing, you just don't listen at all and you should have been listening. But for the person who does have the vision, for the person who has put their finger on something, whether they had intuition or just got lucky, but there, there, there is a big reward on the other side for the people who can have a bold point of view. And even if people hate it, even if people disagree with it, even if people don't like it, and even if that withstands for years and years and years to be the person who can withstand that and to still come out on the other side if the idea proves to be fruitful, that, that, that, that almost that success in, in markets and business and things like that, that success selects for that particular personality type. Yeah, it can be very challenging to be the contrarian against a, a massive amount of people. That can be very, and it's, it can be intimidating and, and it's very difficult to do that for, for people. So if, but if you are a visionary and you feel, you, you feel very passionate about something, hopefully for you that you're right and you gain some, you know, benefits, whether they're mental, financial, whatever, hopefully that happens for, for you because it can pay off in the long run, both mentally and financially, I suppose, or, or one or the other. A couple comments here. Skeppy here said that Timusolani is no goat and Jay Lee would likely put significant money for the right card, which I read after I gave that exact example. So Skeppy knows me better than I know myself. Hobby champs here said no one's going to care about the late career LeBron James 10 years after his career is over. They're going to remember his prime and see how all of his insane all time stats. I think there's truth to that. I, I do think there's truth to that. And Jim here says that that's old fashioned critical thinking. We need to bring more of that back. Absolutely. Okay, what does Jim here says? Great leaders want people around them that have the courage to disagree and speak their mind. Yeah. Right on. Right. And you know what? We see that here on this show from Crit. You know, Chris loves being challenged. A lot of times I like it. I don't like it as much as Chris does, but I, I like it too. I'm willing to take it and, and talk about it and even change my mind on things. Chris loves that challenge though. Just. We just know. Hey, Chris C. With a five dollar contribution says, awesome discussion. When will there be a Yoda hoage action figure with rabbit hole thesaurus? Massive marketing potential, Christy. I will buy a dozen of those. Absolutely. Because the potential isn't just there for marketing. The future value potential is huge. Yeah. Yes. Chris, listen to the crowd on this one. Bad idea. Put that one back to the drawing board. Shelve that. Trash that one. Trash that. Trash that idea. Hey, but he made a nice contribution, bought a cup of coffee for the team here and we're grateful for that. Thank you, Chris C. Okay, Joe, David, Josh, any comments? We're, we're in that wrap up stage here. Anything else any of you want to talk about? Are we ready to wrap this up? I don't want to prematurely end the show and if there's more things on your mind. So, David, how are you feeling? You got anything you want to raise? I mean, I always have things that I could raise, but I mean, if everybody's getting tired, I don't need to raise anything. We need something for the hangover. By the way, I'll ask. I feel like this is a very basic kind of a fast question for people and it brings Josh into the conversation, which I also like. Josh, when you, you texted me from the Toronto Expo and you sent me a photo of the 1990 Leaf Frank Thomas card and you wrote the number 118 below it. Tell me about that. What was that? I have 100. I have 118 copies of that card. And so you have 118 raw copies of that card? I mean, mostly, yeah. If I buy a greater one, I'll crack it out and then keep it raw. So I have 118 raw raw copies. And when you buy a card like that, and I'm going to bring this to the panel in a second. But when you buy a card like that, what's the joy you get? Is it from buying it? Is it from looking at them all together? What? Give us a little bit of. Of where your passion lies. My favorite card of all time. I remember rifling through packs looking for that one in the John Olrood and. And the Sammy Sosa in a white socks uniform. So when you pull it up, you thought you were getting Frank, you're getting Sammy Sosa. A big disappointment. I just love that card. My favorite card of all time. It's a great jersey. And yeah, I just like having. Having as many as I can get. They're cheap, like five, ten bucks a piece. So just pick one up at every show. I'll probably get 1, 2 or 10. I think I bought 20 at once. So that's where. So you would be happy if you had a thousand of them? I would be happy with that, yes. Cool. So this is one of these kind of things. I'm going to bring it kind of a little bit back to what we were all talking about. I love the sometimes the eccentric way that we collect, which ends up kind of in. For me now when I think of a 1990 Lee Frank Thomas card, I'm going to think of Josh. Right. And I love that. I mean, no, that it makes me love the way you collect. And I feel like a lot of times when you're going through this journey, everybody kind of goes on an individual lane that's unlike all their other peers. And I love that. And I'm going to give you some example of some YouTubers, if you guys could maybe think of one for yourself. Like Greg, he collects Matt Manning cards, who he was a teacher and this was one of his students and he has refractors and all of these cards. And he's probably the only person that in the world that goes for those kind of cards. Mike Petty goes for Home Run Derby cards and he has the most massive collection of them. I've never even seen a Home Run Derby card until I saw Mike Petty's and he has a million of them. Tony has Larry Dobie signed cards. Those are kind of off the beaten path. Not the Jackie ones. Darren has a Joe DiMaggio run where I haven't seen 90% of those cards ever. And. And you know, so. So again, these are just Kind of the, the, the cards that are individual, that separate you from a lot of your peers. Do you guys have something that you think represents you like that? Interesting question. I think I, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're kind of quoting some very, like, obscure type of players and, and, and themes there. Whereas, you know, I, I think about my friends on the screen here, and I know a bit about what they collect, and I think about myself as well, David. And I don't have a player that I collect except for the players I collect because I grew up with them or whatever. So, no, I don't think I do, I don't think I do have that in that eccentric sort of way. I'm not that I don't collect that way, really. I don't have any interest in having 118 copies of a car, but I am proud to say, I think, Josh, I think that 118th copy came from me at the show. Did it? Yes, it did. My, my buddy, my buddy Jesse here. Double O cards. Guy says I owe none of them. Looking for one. I set up with him the next week at a show. He almost could have had mine, but you took it. You took it ahead of him. You snaked it from him there, not knowing, of course. So I don't have a great answer to that. David, let's go to Joe. Do you. I mean, not so much recently. I, I think I used to, like, go pretty deep into, you know, the 70s, Oakland A's, you know, Joe, Rudy, Campy, Campaneris. But then, you know, you check those off. More recently, I mentioned, you know, Kavon Looney, there might be a few other, you know, warriors that are, like, fringe, you know, Leonardo Barbosa, something like that. But I like the idea and it's certainly something that could still happen. Chris, how about you? Yeah, I'm not quite that interesting. I wish I was. And it inspires me. And I'm just sitting here like, oh, my God, what could I do to do something cool like this? And I do have these because of what an old bump on the log I am. I've accumulated, like, Carvin's Allen and Ginter card. I have Jeremy's. I've. I think I have several cards with Jeremy. I've cards of John Newman. I've cards of, you know, Jesse, sports boy from Sports Cars Nonsense made a card. I, I've cards of Victor Roman. I, I probably have actually quite an extensive PC of content creators. Slapstrong. Tim, I don't have his. His is Too official. His actually in a real product. Like, I'm talking about like the. The ones that are straight off the grindstone. I don't even know if that makes sense. The ones that were made by the creator for. For the hobby. I can't. Tim would need to give me one for me to get Tim, so maybe he will now. I'm just pulling out of my binder here, one of my. One of my PC binders. Yeah. Cards that are of like creators and that kind of thing. Nice. All of these are not mainstream and they're all just, you know, there, there's. There's Carvin's card right there from Alan. There's Ken Golden's card auto like inscribed to me. The wax stat. My buddy alter. Well, the penny sleever, the Jordan card. This is Dave Denzel's card up there. Oh, I saw you had Ken. The. Ken Golden. I think that's the first one. And he signed those. Oh, he signed. He signed this. I don't know if he says to Jeremy, my favorite. My favorite podcast host. Yeah, he put inscriptions too. He inscribed it for me. A couple of Brian Gray cards right there. Autographed, you know, bull pen LA card. Just a whole bunch of different ones. More over here. My buddy Amit made a Lemieux rookie with his face on it. There's the original the Fat Packs podcast with Eric. So that's. I've had this one for over 10 years. Some buddies, some cards I get at the YouTube get together at. At the National. Here's another page. Look, there's Tony TJ is online right there. There's Victor Roman Senior's card right there. There's Danny Black and John Newman right there. Amazing. Hey, you just meant there's Jesse Gibson. There it is. There it is. I got amazing. There's. Yeah, there's Wade Bogs fan John Reichard at the bottom. I got more. There's. There's Sammy Thunder in the middle right there. There's iconic Al right there. You know, there's the, the. The brothers, the German brothers, uh, wear the glove. Oh, Kiki. Yeah, there's Kiki. Hey, Chris, you might recognize those. Some of those. Those are the card ladder cards you guys gave out at the. You guys gave those out of the National a couple years ago. There's Mike Petty's Kaboom. There's the four Collectors card right there. You know, there's Blake Grice, the. The. The of. Of the Blake Show. Dave Slipka. There's. I got Stoops from our chat right there. There's Nice. I don't know what. I don't forget. I forget what that. Honest. And then. Oh, this one might be a bit more controversial, but these were the. What were they called? The wolf pack. Anybody remember that guy right in the middle? Nice. Nice. There's the wolf pack cards. And then these were given out at a Beckett industry summit one year. Yeah. There's Paulie's pies there some more like. I have a. Several pages of these. This type of. It's kind of fun. That stuff's fun. That's amazing. Yeah. And I have a few more I'm gonna put in there. That might be one of the most extensive hobby content collections that exist. I love it. To me, this is great. It's got a home in my collection. Yeah. And they're. You know, it's. It's in a. I have three. Sorry, I have five binders that are like. You know, this one that came out of this binder here with a bunch of other, you know, just cards. Like, I don't even know what I. Just a bunch of cards I've collected. So it's fun stuff. I collect. I collect hobby people cards. Yeah. You get a place. You give me one to get. You get a place in my binder. That's amazing. Can I give a shout out? David said try and think of a YouTube creator. One immediately did come to mind for me. Unfortunately, David didn't name him, so I can name him. It's Shane Shoebox Legends. He does these videos on the tops archives, like one of ones and buybacks. And every time he talks about one in a video, I immediately start looking them up. I haven't bought one yet. I haven't taken the plunge. But I just. His passion for them is very contagious. When I think of his collection, that's one of the things that I think about. I think he's really identified a very special and cool type of card with us. Absolutely. And you know what? It's not the first time Shane has been called out in this episode. I think. I think Brett might have mentioned him earlier as well. He gets mentioned a lot. Greg says, I can't believe Jeremy doesn't have a Captain Midlife card. I can't believe it either, Greg. I'll be watching the mailbox for that. Absolutely. Skeppy here said today's collector has no idea how big that 1990 leaf Frank Thomas was. People stepped right over 89 upper deck Griffeys to get a big hurt. Oh, man. Skeppy's right. I lived through It I remember exactly. I remember going to card shows that in 1990 and like, couldn't wait to buy that cartoon for like 80 bucks. I think I sold mine to you, Josh, for 10 last week. Yeah, you drove a hard bargain, but. Yes, yes, yes, I drove up, I drove a hard bargain. I, I, I don't do any card show deals for under 10 bucks. It's ten dollar minimum. Whatever it is, I get it, I get it. Whatever it is, right. Skeppy says. Wait, are you saying you have a binder full of cards you enjoy that aren't really worth anything? That's crazy. I got five of those binders, Skeppy. Five binders, five full of cards that aren't worth anything. Or if they are, I don't know it. But I love them. Love them. That's the beauty of the hobby. We can enjoy it in so many different ways. All right, are we done? Are we good to wrap this one up, fellas? David, thanks for that. Oh, Josh, you got something? Yeah, I'm going to the two hours. Whatever you want. I'm good. We're at three. We're coming up on three and a half hours, so we will wrap this up. Joe Perot has left the camera on, but left the screen. I'd love for Joe to come back for the ending of the episode so. But we're gonna wrap it up. I want to thank the guys from Sports Card Clubhouse, Greg Midlife, Mike, Junk Wax Hero, Adam from Splendid for, for recruiting me onto the team and I'm excited to start that journey. Not much is going to change around here on Sports Cards Live. I want to thank David Chase for helping to facilitate that. Just being the voice of reason. David Chase is the most powerful broker in the hobby. David Chase is, is the man pulling the strings behind the scene. But it was a lot, a lot of fun to just the last couple days, not even two days. So thank you to them guys. This, these episodes are available on podcast. Keep that in mind and watch out for the Hangover, which will be debuting on the Sports Card Clubhouse platforms, both the YouTube channel and the podcast. Probably this Wednesday will be the episode one. It'll be me and David Chase and all you guys on the screen right now are invited to be a part of these episodes. By the way, it's Sports Cards Live, the Hangover, if you're available because it's going to be during business hours. So I will send you guys the link. You're welcome to drop. It's not a live stream. You'll be welcome to drop in and join the discussion if you'd like but no pressure to do so. But it is open because it is a Sports Cards live themed piece of content that will live on the sports card clubhouse platforms. Thank you Greg. Appreciate it so much. Yankees fan has a Mr. Mint card from back in the day. He was the first one I saw who did it. Thank you Bill Betts. Appreciate that. Thank you Laura for sticking with us again on a Saturday night. Much appreciated. I want to Also thank Brett McGrath for joining us earlier tonight. If you're not listening to stacking slabs, are you even in the hobby listen to stacking slabs the f some of the finest content out there. Thank you to Joe, Chris, David, Josh, guys with that here on. Thank you Jim. Define says you can only watch the Hangover once and you have to delete the evidence. Attaboy. Exactly. Here on May 16, 2026. This episode of Sports Cars Live is now over, over, over. And with that, good night everybody. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the sports Cards live community. Don't forget to like subscribe and most of all, keep collecting more great content to come. Sports Cars is a lifestyle. I don't know when this happened, but I hit that point where I just don't want to think about my clothes anymore. Like give me something easy, something comfortable. But still looks like I tried even just a little bit. And that's been quince for me, guys. They've got all the Spring Staples dialed 100 European linen shirts, shorts starting at 34 bucks. 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