Can You Be Against Alterations...But Love The FrankenWagner? + The Panel Gets Honest + LeBron Debate

Hey, guys, I'm Martino Puccio. And I'm Matt Santangelo. And together we're the co hosts of that Milan Podcast, an AC Milan based podcast in English covering everything from the youth system all the way up to the first transfers, pre game, post match, and so much more. Listen to that Milan Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Michael Jordan Sports Cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now Jeremy Lee, the building and every guest that you ever needed Sports cards after hours keep the hobby heated Updates, homie Talk like you never seen it Sports Cards live and I could ever beat it Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now. Welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host, Jeremy Lee. All right, are we done or what, fellas? Are we done? You got anything else you want to talk about? The chat's still going. We got 205 people. What do you think? Yeah, we're good tonight with questions, if you want. Yeah. Oh, David has questions. Let's hear it. All right, David, you want to keep going? Well, yeah, we can keep going for a few minutes, sure. No, it's not over yet, Charles. Not yet. We're going. All right, here, here. Let me give you guys kind of like a. A modern question that's been on my mind. This was during one of my walks. I was thinking about this with LeBron possibly switch with him. Definitely switching teams again, but possibly going to a team that he hasn't played for. There's a possibility of that. I was going through the hobby goats of the big sports in the United States, baseball, basketball, and football, and thinking of the amount of teams that those greatest of the greatest hobby goats have played for. And like for baseball, Ruth played for two teams. Mantle played for one. Jackie played for one, Mays played for two. Basketball, Jordan played for two, Kobe played for one. Curry played for one, Bill Russell played for one, Jabar played. They've only been one or two for each of these goats. LeBron's already played for three. Right. Is this. And let's talk about football, too. Brady been in two, Montana two, Manning two. Right. Mahomes one. So all of these, like big hobby goats that have a huge following have been on one team or two teams. And do you think that if LeBron plays, he's already played for three, and if he plays for four teams, is that going to be a problem or a possible deterrent of people trying to buy his cards in the hobby? Do you think it has any correlation? I think once you go past one team, it doesn't really matter. I mean, unless you're a guy like Kevin Durant who's played for like 11 or something like that. You know, I think, I think there become comes a point where it's like, are you just, are you just ring chasing or what are you, what are you really doing? But I don't know, man. That's a good, it's a good question. It, you know, Gretzky played for four teams. I mean, he played, he played, you know, less than half a season for the St. Louis Blues, but he effectively played a lot for three teams. Hasn't hurt him. Sidney Crosby's still on one team. Alex Ovechkin on one team in hockey, they're, they're both doing fine. You, you included Mahomes in that discussion. Everyone else you said, I think is retired or dead. And Mahomes could easily play for another team before he's, before he's done. Brady, you know, played for two teams. No one really is. At the end of the day, no one's going to care about the. Well, I guess he did win a Super bowl there, so they might care, but no one cares about Montana playing for the Chiefs. I don't think, I don't even think people care about Griffey playing for the Reds that much. And the White. Griffey played for the White Sox too. Let's just. No. Did he really? Sure did. He got him for three months in a trade deadline in like 2015. Also, Ruth played for three teams. So what was the third team? Boston Red Sox, the New York Yankees and the Boston Braves. And he managed the Brooklyn Dodgers for a year in 38. Then he left. Go ahead, Joe. For me, David, the question sort of, sort of morphs into the question of like, what's behind the multiple teams? And, and for LeBron, it brings up the narrative of like, is he, is he ring chasing? And that's, that's a paradoxical thing in modern sports right now, I think is because on the one hand that comes with a little bit of a negative stigma that you're like going instead of like staying where you are and building it up. The modern CBA makes it really challenging to have sustained success in ways like, you know, the Bulls winning six consecutive titles or, or three and three. So it's, it's a little paradoxical because on the one hand we are ex, we, we have an expectation of like, how many championships, how many rings do you get? But on the other hand, we kind of castigate the people that are like, you know, mercenary in that way. Of. Of chasing rings. So I think it's an interesting question. I think in LeBron's case, it might ever so slightly add to the negative stigma of him sort of looking to kind of fabricate a winning team as opposed to the. The. And. But I don't necessarily agree with that. I think. I think in the modern world, the way. The way the collective bargaining agreement set up, I think it's perfectly fine, if not almost kind of a natural thing to do, especially when you play. What, is he going into his 23rd year? Something like that. So I don't know. My. My 50 cents. I, I think. I think. I think I agree, Joe. I think at this point, it doesn't matter where he goes, who he plays with, or what even happens in this last year. Let's say his career is cemented. His cards are apparently way up right now, which is kind of weird, except that I guess just everything is right now. So. Yeah. David, what do you think? Dave? Yeah, so. So the. One of the. When I was thinking about this, I was thinking that possibly the, The. The fans of a team can sometimes get upset at a player that leaves during their prime, right? I'm a Raiders fan, okay? We had Randy Moss and I. After Randy Moss left. I hated Randy Moss, okay? And then he played better for New England. I think it's very different if somebody leaves during the twilight of their career, like Joe Montana did, right, for Kansas City, and Babe Ruth left before he was the star of All Stars, leaving Boston also. But leaving during your prime and kind of screwing over Cleveland at one point, then maybe screwing over Miami, like, you know, those fans. I, I mean, I think Cleveland, because it's his home, has a special appreciation, but I don't. I know he brought championships to Miami, but he also left to go play for, like, the dark side Lakers. And I just think, like, if you're like a crazy fan of some of these teams, I don't know how it's going to be looked back on. A Laker fan thinking about LeBron James in 20 years from now. I don't know if they're going to love LeBron. I know they're not going to love him as much as Kobe or a lot of some of their other players. He's not on that Mount Rushmore, even though he's probably. He might even be a better player than Kobe. He's not going to be as loved as much as him. So part of me thinks that switching teams like that can lose a little bit of the fanaticism of those of Those people that love certain teams. That was kind of what I was thinking. I remind Ray Bork from the world of hockey. Raymond Bork, all time hall of Fame top tier defenseman, played 20 years for the Boston Bruins. Bruins never won a Stanley Cup. Left to go chase a cup. Went to Colorado, won the cup in Colorado. Joe Sakic, the captain of the team, got the Stanley cup from commissioner Gary Bettman. Didn't even, almost didn't even kiss the damn thing. Skated straight to Ray Bork out of respect for the veteran. Gave it to him. And you, you know that every Boston Bruins fan was tearing for joy that Raymond Bork won the Stanley cup even though it wasn't in Boston because they wanted him to go have that success that he couldn't get in Boston. Like that's a nice kind of feel good story. I don't know that that happened because like you guys are saying, you leave in your prime, you go elsewhere. Yeah, it sucks. It sucks. It suck. It also sucks when the, when the management decides to trade. Never mind at the players decision. When the team trades them way. Now you're. Now you, you get mad at the team overall for doing that. Maybe some people even follow the player. Never. They abandoned the team at that point. We're a finicky bunch. Go ahead, Dave. Yeah, and I should have, I should have said that I was wrong. I'm now reading the chat. It depends on how they leave. Right? Like Luca wasn't his fault. Right. Montana was pushed out by. By Young or Peyton Manning. They ended up getting the first pick and getting Andrew Luck. Like that's a. That was a no brain decision. Unfortunately for them too. But somebody that's leaving for either the money or to chase championships in their prime. I can. I understand why there's a lot of people that dislike LeBron for that reason. Even if you are a fan of a team that he played for. I think it would probably be the best for his legacy if he goes back to Cleveland or Miami like a team that he's played for already than to go to a team that he hasn't played for. Even though I know that there's a lot of people rooting for him to come over to them. But I was just thinking of that just because. And I left off hockey on purpose because I knew that Gretzky and also Gordie Howe played for five teams. I saw also. So that was. Those were kind of really. Though he played for in the NHL, didn't he only play for one NHL team though? Oh did he? Yeah. He played in the wha. I can't think of him playing. I mean someone let us know in the chat if he played for any other, other NHL teams, but he played for the. You might be seeing the Detroit vipers. In his sixth decade in professional hockey when he was 65 years old, he came back and played for, you know, some weird event. But yeah, but, but, but I love the Ray Bork example. It's, it's a good taste in your mouth sort of thing. But here Yelia Williams says LeBron won a title with each team. There will be collectors from each fan base that want his playing days cards with with that team. I'm sure there will be some that are also pissed off, but that does sort of make sense. Cage is still mad at Andrew for leaving the Lucas Tigers and Bronze podcast in his prime. I don't think people gotten over that one yet, Charles says. I stuck with Montana and rooted for him, resented San Francisco and Montana left. People approach these things differently. Here's a fun one from Charles. How about a hypothetical? You're buying a Kevin a Grail Kevin Durant card. Which team is he on? Like, I'm just not buying. Yeah, I, I guess I'm going to skirt the question. Say I'm, I would never like Kevin Durant is not. Maybe it's because too many teams but he's like the most unattractive superstar. Like not physically the man. I mean his collecting him is the most unattractive prospect for me of, of any like superstar in the NBA. I, I mean there's a couple others like Paul Pierce is up there for me too. But, but yeah, I, I don't know. Anyone have any thoughts on the Durant question? Like what team would you want his card on? I think comes down to the team. You're a fan. Actually no. If I because I got some family who are sons fans. Maybe it's a sons card. But a couple comments came from the last discussion, although. Joe, go ahead. Oh, I mean I, I mean he, he helped Golden State warriors win two championships, which puts me in a strange position because, you know, I'm more, way more of a Curry fan than a Durant fan. But I certainly appreciate what KD did for Golden State so I'd be taking the Golden State. That makes sense. But I'm a fan of that team. I don't know if you're just a, a super card collector of Katie, maybe you'd want him in his Sonics uniform, which of course, you know, a defunct team. That almost makes sense for, for For Katie. Well, isn't that his rookie year? Yeah, that's probably the way I would go because. Plus the same thing with, like, Ray Allen. I look at Ray Allen cards, I'm like, oh, I want Sonic's cards for Ray Allen. Okay. From the last discussion earlier on, a couple comments came in. Ken Fickle. This is already a while ago, it's over an hour ago, but I just found the comment again. I think it's an interesting question about the Wagner. Is that called artwork or alterations? Interesting. Artwork is another kind of designation that, I don't know, whatever, fly. But it's interesting. I think it, you know, because. Oh, it reminds me of like, I have a. The currency project is. Is a group of artists who take base cards or whatever cards and they paint around the player and make these whole different scenes. I have one of their LeBron cards, actually. I think it's beautiful. That, to me, is artwork, but it's also. They also altered the card. They put paint on the original card, so it's artwork and it's on alteration. Just. I don't know. An interesting comment there from Ken Fickle. Joe, I just want to. I mean, one of the things that I heard tonight that I did not know coming into the episode was that they apparently Olbermann paid 75, 000 to have somebody do that, which is. I mean, I know a lot of artists and not many of them make $75,000 in a year, much less in one moment of action. And it really actually makes me curious about the person who did this. Like, what level of artisan skill did they have? How long did it take them? And I guess I'm hearing also that, like, we don't have access to that person at this point, but it would be really interesting to track that person down and do an interview with them. Like, what went in to the craftsmanship of you creating this Frankenstein Wagner card? Because, I mean, 75. Doesn't $75,000 sound like a ton of money to. To do this? At the same time, I wouldn't want to do it. I don't have the handiwork skills to, like, take a Wagner and, you know, paste it on a Tommy Leach card? So I don't know. Do you guys have any thoughts on that? Like, is that. Am I correct in hearing 75k to. Yeah, I'm trying to find the. I'm. I'm trying to find the article that I read that in. I think it's in. I think it's on the Love of the Game website in the Description of the. I think that's where I read 75 grand was the price paid to. To. To build, to rebuild the card. And it was. And I also remember that the. It was. It was basically something like the guy who had it done, whether it was Olbermann or someone else. Again, the story is impossible to follow, but apparently they, like, searched out the best in restoration to do it, like a professional paper restorer sort of thing. So they give them, like. You find that person, they, like, look at the job and they say, this is what it's going to cost you for me to try and to do this to the best of my ability, and then, you know, shell out the cash, which, I guess, I mean, do we. Do we know what the die cut in and of itself cost? Do we have a comp. Yeah. Yeah, that sold. Yeah, that sold. Josh, weren't you saying earlier that sold on Memory lane in the 90s for 98, I think you said. What. What did it sell for it? Solid rea. In, I think 98. I don't remember the number, but I've been trying to look for it. I can't find it in the archives. I've got a paper copy of that catalog somewhere at my house, so I'm trying to get a copy. I'll get it for you. So maybe you can. Maybe you can bring that back on the Hangover and show us that. That actual listing. Yeah, I got you here. Collector Charles is saying Olbermann said the guy who did the restoration dipped and closed his website and went off the grid after backlash for doing the card. Might be. I don't remember reading that, but maybe. Jim, defined. Isn't what they did to the Wagner card far more science than art? I think I lean that way maybe. I mean, what's the. At what point is it art or science, though? I could be. Could be a bit of both. I mean, science, like, it could be artistic science. Jim, maybe. Maybe. Another comment was from Card Fuchsia, which I think we touched on. I think, David, you were even touched on. It says this card will only encourage this behavior. It'll trickle. Trickle down to lesser cards. And this is the. This is. This is the big issue here, guys. This is because, let's face it, this Wagner only really impacts one person, the buyer. And they're gonna go in eyes wide open, so we don't need to feel bad for them. Whoever buys this card knows exactly what they're doing, and good for them. They get to add a card that I would love to own. So, yeah, I Think. I think the bigger issue really comes down to what does this mean moving forward. There's. Guys, I've been saying it for a few weeks. We've been talking about it. I feel like people who are against card alteration, restoration, what's the word? I'm forgetting right now, cleaning maintenance people, not between cleaning and alteration. There's another one. I'm just not thinking of it right now. But these, yeah, I, I think that this is, this is the poster child card for all, for that whole. Oh, I've been saying that the cohort that is, that is in favor of this type, these behaviors is a growing, growing cohort in our hobby, and they may even outnumber the purists. Like, some of us who don't want to see this happen so much. They might be outnumbering us, and that might become the norm. You know, again, it's allowed in, it's allowed in, in vintage books, artwork. Comic books, like any other form of ephemera, is okay to be, to be worked on. It's only sports cars. We're the only ones that have a, that, that have a card up our behind that says we don't like this. But every other, every other collectible is okay with it. I mean, I think comic books, like, they, they pay more for, for authentic, unrestored copies, but people are okay buying restored copies. Joe. Well, I wonder if in the comic book corollary, if it's so. I mean, I'm assuming that restoration is either easier to detect in comic books or that there's just a sort of culture wherein you, you volunteer the fact or you somehow acknowledge the fact that it's restored. And I think that's, that's maybe a terrain that our hobby has a challenge with, partially because the graders can't detect perfectly or any, with any degree of, of fidelity whether or not something has been, you know, cleaned or in some way altered. So I think that, that's my curiosity is if anybody in the comic book world can speak to that. Are there ever people doing cleaning and restoration that are trying to get like, a numerical grade? What would, would qualify in the card world as a numerical grade? Or is there, or is it just way harder to do that? Like, you can tell because you have to bleach the pages or something. And it's much more obvious because that, that could play into why other sectors or segments of collectibles are okay with it. Whereas us in the card world, it's just way more challenging because it's a smaller object and there's maybe More capacity to hide the fact that you're cleaning it. Well, yeah, I mean, how much of a comic book isn't even visible? It's. It's hidden inside the comic. The graded comic book slab. You can't even see the pages. So it's like. Does it even matter what's in there half the time if you're never gonna. No one's ever gonna open up these slabs. Doesn't even matter what's inside this. What's inside the. Between the. The COVID The front and back cover. I don't know, man. Yeah, any. Any thoughts on. On any of that, Guys. Josh, David know you guys are good. Jake here asked how much would Jeremy pay for the Wagner. Well, Jake, I would have to ask you how much money does Jeremy have? You can tell me how much money I have. I will then not. Not literally, but how much money are you giving me? And then I'll tell you how much I would pay for the Wagner. Give me an amount of money that I have, and I'll tell you what I would pay. Because right now, Jeremy, how about it? You're at the National. What. What's in your current state? What would you buy that card for? I could probably wrangle 50k for that card. I think I'd pay 50 grand for it. Yeah. Yeah, 50. I think I'd be getting a sweetheart of a deal. Yeah, me too. So we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see how people are soaking. I was soaking the word that I was thinking of that I couldn't get. No, wasn't soaking, but I did. I did kind of come up with a list of words that with. With the help of chat GPT, a list of words to describe how cards are worked on. And I'll just read some of them for fun and see if anything sticks out to any of you guys or anyone on the panel as to what might make sense for the Honus Wagner. We've got modified, treated, handled, processed, conserved, stabilized, cleaned, repaired. Repaired is a good one. Restored, preserved, enhanced, serviced, refinished, reconstructed, reassembled, altered, restored, trimmed. These are now. So those first group were called neutral or descriptive. And then here's some hobby grading terminology words. Altered, restored, trimmed, recolored, retouched, pressed, flattened, bleached, washed, soaked, humidified, filled, reinforced, backed, rebacked in, painted, Never heard that one before. Touched up. And then the museum terminology. Conserved, stabilized, consolidated, infilled, mended, de, acidified, surface, cleaned, humidified, and flattened, loss, compensated, reintegrated, backed with archival, Materials. And then there's another list. They give me more critical, negative, doctored, manipulated, tampered, engineered, fabricated, counterfeited, forged, artificially enhanced, disguise, camouflage, and misrepresented, and if you're looking for the broad umbrella term, worked on, modified, altered, conserved, restored, intervened upon received treatment. So none of those are reminding me what I, What I was trying to think of. So I guess I probably had it in one. In one of those already. Okay, Kate says I have a word you left off the list. Ruined. Yeah, ruined. That's a good one. That's a. That. That applies. I would say that word applies maybe not to the die. I mean, the Wagner card was ruined when it was cut up with a pair of scissors. That ruined the card. I think what, what, what the restorer did is make it look good again. Again, not everybody likes that. That's fine. That's just fine. Right. So we. How about Jim's comment? Jim defines 1040. The line of acceptance is the question. How do you say you like the Wagner and also condemn Kurt's card, care products and treatments? There has to be a definitive line or none. I disagree, Jim. I don't think there has to be a definitive line or not. I think that there, it's like, like, like, like Josh said earlier. It's, it's apples and hand grenades. There are different. There are, there's, There are just simply exceptions. I don't want my cards going for a swimming. But I'm, But I don't. I would, But I'm. But listen, I would buy a Wagner that went for a swim. So I don't. I just, I just completely disagree that there has to be a definitive line or none. I'm, I actually. Jim, I actually have the complete right to opine however I want on any situation. Even if I'm in conflict. I have the right to be in conflict because I might have a reason in my head that I can't even articulate that puts me into that conflict, but I reserve that right. And so, so I completely disagree with this comment that, that there ha. Now, for the hobby, there needs to be a definitive line. For standards, there needs to be a definitive line. But for what Jay Lee wants to own, I can say whatever I want to say whenever I want to say it. And if I'm conflicting one scenario with another based on the way anyone else's lens sees these things, that's on you. That's not on me. However, with all that said, I do encourage you to put me to the test, like, because maybe I will retract my comment. Maybe I haven't. Again, I've said this before guys. When you're live streaming you don't have time to think about everything you're gonna say. You just don't. I'm not that quick witted to be able to perfectly articulate every thought I have and take a position on everything and on demand with a comment from the chat or from a guest or at all. So I that said as well you know, anyone you, you can go clip something I said and you know, you're, you're just looking for a gotcha moment but which is, which is BS itself so. And I appreciate the comment he says it wasn't a criticism of you. Just. Yeah, that's why I broke it down because of hobby versus versus myself. So for me I disagree. Jim, I appreciate the clarification but the hobby does need a line. I, that I definitely agree with. David. David? Yeah, thank you John and, and thanks Joe. But you know it's, it's. This is like the thing with alterations and everything, right? And how some people are saying restorations instead of alterations where you are trying to make a card look better, right? You that just like this die cut Wagner, they thought that this is making it look better, soaking is making it look better, trimming is in their mind making it look better. But a lot of these things are covered up and hard to be able to tell and trying to get past graders and things like that. And some are being totally open, right. And some are being open when they sell the card and in a raw form. But who knows what's going to happen when it slabs and if the next people are going to know this a Wagner. The thing is because there's so few of them, everyone's going to know what happened with this specific Wagner. But if this was a 1951 Bowman Maze, you might not be able to find it that easily. Right. So that's, that's the, the interesting kind of side of things where I can kind of see the difference from the reason why it can be a little bit with soaking in this is just because you're trying to take a card and making it look better from its, from its state that it's in right now, you know, intent and what are you, yeah what are you trying, are you trying to deceive the public or not? You know the comment that Jim made, which a good comment, you know, if you are talking about Kurt's card, if you're talking about whatever, anyone, any work that's done on a card to clean it, that is adding foreign substances like, you know, you're, if you're, if you're immersing a card into water, distilled or not, that water is penetrating the surface of the card, it's getting into the fabric, into, into the fibers of, of the cardboard. If you are simply blowing dust off a card or taking a microfiber cloth and wiping, cleaning off a fingerprint or something, you're not penetrating the card in that way. So it just depends what level of work you're doing on the card. And if you, and, and so if you're doing that work to deceive the public, you're trying to get one over. You're trying to, yeah, you're, you're committing what I'm now calling PSA fraud. If you're trying to get a card into a PSA holder, the PSA does not want in that holder and you're not. And you don't. You cover the, you cover the serial number on your card because you don't want them to decertify it because you, you were successful at committing your PSA fraud. Well, that's, that's different than re, re housing a, a die cut Honus Wagner, where everyone knows what it is. So I think that's another answer to, to, to that comment that Jim had. He said, but, but you have influence. So if you're talking about me having influence, I gotta just say like this, people watching this kind of know me well, I think if not the new people, but like, yeah, you gotta know guys know from here on and understand that, that, I mean, I, I can be wrong, guys. I can be wrong. Believe it or not, I can be wrong. And believe it or not, I can say one thing on one Saturday and the next Saturday I might decide that I don't feel that way anymore. Just be warned, just be warned that I might change my mind on things. So don't be influenced by me, guys, don't be influenced on me because. By me. Don't be influenced by me because I could steer you wrong easily by not having the ability to think something through. Toy. Sorry, Joe, go ahead. No, I was just gonna extract one of the thoughts that you had in reference to Jim's, you know, and, and I think he was using you in a more like general sense of like us in the hobby. We need to have a line, which I agree with and I disagree with. I mean I agree with it 99 of the time. But I think the point that you were making, Jay Lee, is that The Wagner, the T2 the T206 Wagner is truly a singular card in the hobby. I mean, it is just that massive where if there was ever any card that you're going to make an exception for, and it sounds like CGC has made an exception in its own grading standards. It sounds like psa at one point, very early on in, in their company's formation, made an exception in their standards. But like, that's the card that you would make a degree of allowance for, that. We just, we want to have this card exist. We, we want to acknowledge this card. We need to have it in some state or another, whatever the nomenclature is. And it may not be consistent. Exactly. Joe. I mean, we've talked about this before and I've, I've said like, you know, I don't want trimmed cards in my collection. I don't want altered cards in my collection. Likely have some that got through psa, but I don't want them in my collection. However, that said, 52, 52 tops. Mantle, I would accept an altered copy. Honus T206 Wagner, I would accept an altered copy. And the third one is probably David Chase. What is it? The leaf Satchel page. Bingo. Bingo. That's the other one that I would probably, because these are cards that I want that are extremely expensive and those are cards that I would make exceptions for in my PC. Those three cards, there's probably one or two. Oh, I might also do a Bronco and I might also do a Mic in these. You know, I might be willing to take trimmed copies of those into my collection. But, but any other card, nothing else comes to mind where I'd be willing to do that. If, if there are other bigger cards in the hobby, I just like the Plank or the Lashway. I, I don't covet them, so it doesn't matter. But those three, give me a trim copy. I mean, yeah, I do want to take them. So, yeah, I'll make those exceptions. Don't be influenced though, guys. Don't be influenced by me. Don't say you want those now trimmed. I mean, I, and I hear you on that, Jaylee, but I also, I understand someone saying that you do have influence and, and it doesn't mean you have to be perfectly aligned with every thought and that you can't change your mind. But I mean, there is a point to, like, for, for any of us that are out here yip yapping on a Saturday night, I mean, you know, we need to be a little bit mindful that we're, we're, we're voices out there. Not that I'm totally my. Yeah, I'm totally mindful of that. I just recognize that I am not perfect and that my mind changes. And I'm a human being. And regardless of having a platform here on sports cards, live, you know, just. You just gotta understand, hey, if, you know, I don't know, man. Like, the other thing is pick and choose. What? This doesn't just go for me, obviously. Anybody who is an influencer or has influence, pick and choose what you're letting them influence you on. You know, pick and choose. Like, be. Be critical. Say, oh, he's willing to take a. A trimmed mantle into his collection. No way would I ever do that. Good. Pick and choose what your influence on. Is everybody else out there collecting as many hockey cards as I am? I doubt it. I doubt it. I know Cage certainly isn't. So. I mean, you know, like. Yeah, I don't mind having in. I don't. We don't have to get into this whole thing. I hate the influence talk. I prefer the inspire talk. I'm happy to be an inspirer. Inspiring people to. To collect certain ways, certain things. But anyway, enough of that. Enough of that talk. Are we done, guys? Are we done? I don't know. Oh, okay. Oh, Cage, Jay Lee. If you make a mistake, just restore it, refurbish it, alter it, trim it if you need to. It's all okay. That seems to be the way some things work in this hobby, right? I like that word. Refurbished. That's a good one. It is a good one. And it's a good one for that card. Refurbished. Absolutely, absolutely. Oh, diamond relics. As I heard, Jay Lee alters every copy of his own Cracker Jack card before he moves on from them. I do. I do. By the way, if you haven't seen yet, the new 48 Leaf will be available at the National. Five hundred were made. Six will be asked for. I'm certain it'll. The higher the over under is. Six copies on. On that. Yeah, hit that like button, guys. Thank you, Tony. Hit that like button if you'd like. Everybody, any final thoughts for this episode? You guys, before we wrap up? It's already almost 2am on the east Coast. Cage is still awake. We know that we're doing something good. If that's the case. What do you guys. Yeah, I know, I know. Okay. I just said it's 2am over there. You're still up. Appreciate you being here, buddy. Anyone have any final thoughts? Guys? Josh. Go ahead, buddy. Two weeks from the National. Cannot wait to see the three of you here, there and Christopher. It'll be a great time. I'm just super excited for the show. Hopefully we'll hang out after the afterwards if I'm not too tired on my feet all day. You know I'm old. Can't wait as well. And keep in mind guys, next week Sports Cards Live is also on Hobby Palooza for the annual Hobby Palooza Content Festival occurring on the Four Collectors YouTube channel. We'll also just for anybody you know, loyalty to our audience here, we will also be streaming here to you to to Sports Cards Live so you won't miss it. But we'll have comments coming in from sports cards live YouTube channel as well as the Four Collectors YouTube channel. It is a charitable endeavor in favor of signatures for soldiers. So you're welcome to donate. You'll learn more about that next Saturday on the show. But we will be back next Saturday for that. I'm here tomorrow night for the Fanatics Collect weekly auction ending watch party. I will be doing a giveaway during that episode. However, to qualify to win that giveaway you will have to be watching on the Fanatics Collect app in the Collect original section on on Fanatics Live. So come come check that out tomorrow and the episode I recorded with Victor from True rcs. Victor Roman Senior will be dropping on his channel on Wednesday and I thank everybody who did watch the Steve Taft interview that dropped Monday here on Sports Cards Live and the people that watched the Joe Hollywood episode the Monday before. Thank you for watching that and go check out Hobby Spectrum. It is no longer to cage to if cage if you're still there. We now show you your the curve how you dip your feet into all the archetypes, not just your core archetypes. So we are growing and developing that and some more features to come very soon. It's all I can think of right now. You can catch these episodes on Spotify and Apple and David Chase has something to say. I was going to answer from the question. I don't think any of us are going to Fanatics Fest. Jeremy, you're still not going, right? I'm not going. I will be at West Coast Card show for Zach who asked. So come up and say hi to me and Joe and I will be on Monday night with Greg on his live show which will be fun to do too. And we will be back with the Hangover dropping on the Sports Card Clubhouse channel on Wednesday. Joe please. Well just great show tonight and thanks to the chat, the illustrious chat. I did want to acknowledge our colleague and friend Christopher McGill. Hoj. Happy birthday, buddy. We miss you. Hope you're having a good weekend and celebrating your life. It was Chris's birthday yesterday, everybody, and he is celebrating. That's why he's not here. Thank you, Joe. And I appreciate you saying that on behalf of the panel here, because I forgot to, I think might have said at the top of the show, maybe not. But in any event, happy birthday, Chris Hoage. Chris McGill. It's a big one for him, everybody, but I'll let him share which. Which birthday it was. But it's a nice round one, and he's getting up there. He might even start losing his hair. I. It was funny in. In a chat. We're in. What was. What was that? That comment, Josh? Someone said. Oh, you might have said me. Yeah, yeah, you said. You said. At this point, you start, watch out. What? What? Yeah, watch out, Hoja. When you turn 40, you start losing your hair. And I said, okay, when does it start to grow back? Asking for a friend, kind of wondering, because I've been waiting a few years since I turned 40 for that to happen. Josh. Restoration. There you go. Talking about restoration. Restorate. I want to restore my head. All right. All right, guys, this is fun. Thanks to the chat. Thank you to Darren Revelle and Leighton Sheldon for joining us earlier on in the night. Rascal Stacks. Don't know that I've seen that name before, but thank you for jumping in. Good to have you here. Thank you, Diamond Relics. Thank you, everybody who has. Yeah, Chris, go watch this back. Go watch the rest of this later. Appreciate that, everybody. Thank you, everyone, for being here and here on and for July 11, 2026. This episode of Sports Cards Live is now over. Oh, by and with that, good night, everybody. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the Sports Cards Live community. Don't forget to, like, subscribe. And most of all, keep collecting more great content to come. Sports cars is a lifestyle.