THWC 422: Is Fanatics the Bad Guy?

What is up? Everybody happy with Cage episode 422? Let's call it a Weekend Edition. I'm recording this while I still have a voice left late on July 18th. Although during this episode, my time zone is going to switch over to July 19th. Got home a couple hours ago from day three of Fanatics Festival. Can't get enough of the hobby or hobby content. So while I was going through my cards and going through today's buys and sells and sleeving up some of the stuff from the boxes that Ian opened, I hopped on Jeremy Lee and his Saturday, you know, Jeremy Lee sports cards live. And normally he's got four windows up. And I was in the comments and I, I noticed only three windows up, you know, and he, you know, he was doing a good job of reading my comments because I was at Fanatics Fest for three straight days and we'll be there for a fourth day tomorrow. So you say, all right, you know, tell us this. I said, hey, why don't you send me a link? So I hopped on before I tell you what I said, because you could always go there and check it anyway. Episode 422 brought to you by Arena Club Buy Card Ladder, who I mentioned in that episode. Save yourself a couple bucks, use code Cage and buy the Philly show. So anyway, we had a long conversation where he talked about, you know, the good, the bad. There's not much bad. And you know, I won't repeat the whole thing because you can go check out, you know, the replay of Jeremy show. Yeah, like 100 and something people in the live views does a very good job of, you know, of, of keeping folks entertained. But the reason why I'm hopping on here so late is, you know, I talked about how I spoke to a lot of people from Fanatics and the machine that they are, how many people they have there and how many people, you know, it takes to run something like this. Forget about the money, forget about, you know, the getting the celebrities, getting the, you know, space, getting it lined up, just coordinating everything. It is a massive, massive undertaking. I mean, you're talking about so many people, so many staffers. You know, I got a glimpse behind one of the stages today and, you know, there's, you know, a dozen people who don't come out from behind the wall with, you know, monitors and cameras and, you know, just, you know, working on the technical side of it, let alone, you know, the millions of other people that are scheduling the guests, you know, and, you know, just making sure that everything's being done the right way. Anyway, I spoke to a bunch of people today. They fall into a bunch of different categories. People want to know about Fanatics Fest. Every single dealer I spoke to said it was a fantastic show from a dealer perspective. And you know, if you didn't listen to the episodes before or even if you did, I'll, I'll semi sum this up. This is the third year Fanatics Fest and I was there for one, two and now three. They expanded to four days. First year it was not a card show. You could not call it a card show. You could call it a, you know, a fan fest. You could call it a, you know, an event almost a wrestling con, A lot of wrestling. And you know that stage with the walkouts and the music going, just people walking out. It's such a big presence there anyway. And then just so many autographs, so many people dressed up for wrestling, you name it. And you had cards in the back corner. Well, year three cards are everywhere. I would say cards are the focal point of the show now. And the, the, you know, the activations are, they're, they're, they weave in, right, they're interspersed into the cards. There's two main big rooms, two segments, one to the left, one to the right. Big collectors spaces, big card. You're talking about like a full on show. You know what I mean? As big as the national. No, but huge. I mean besides the national. Biggest. One of the biggest, you know, that I've been to. I mean, you know, you go to the White, White Plains east coast now, it's it, you know, it kills those, you know, in size and it wasn't the biggest complaint that you had from, from number one was, you know, you had to walk through everything and look, look for cards. You know, fanatics do a better job of, you know, when people come in they should find the, the cards are everywhere. The cards are, you know, the cards. You can't get to go see an athlete. You can't get to go to the walk of Fame and give someone a high five without walking through the cards. And the athletes want to go and do cards, they want to open cards. And you know, if you watch any content, you see Ted Lasso walking around or Seth Meyers walking around or calling any towns walking around, speed, you know, doing his thing. Justin Bieber showed up today and sang. He did like an impromptu concert, which is amazing. One of my friends had his daughter there and that was like, you know, became the highlight. You know, she got to meet Cody Rhodes and you know, talk about, you Know, lightning in a bottle on it, you know, everything. Converged at Messi there yesterday doing a press conference, got the World cup, people watching the World cup, you know, huge, huge contingent of people watching France and England today in the third place game. And tomorrow they'll be watching, you know, the final. Everything from, you know, Call of Duty, you know, to driving the F1, you know, racing car, to people on stage buying cards, talking about cards. It really has come a long way. One of the things that I said to Jeremy, you know, when I, when I was on his show today was that I spoke to a lot of people from fanatics and, you know, believe me, don't believe me, I don't get a dollar from fanatics. That's with a lot of people there today. And you really believe it when they say that they really just want what's best for the hobby. I mean, you don't hear them talking about 10x now, right? They really want the hobby to be bigger and better. They want the hobby to succeed. And what's funny is, you know, there's still content. I, I can't believe there is. There's still content about who's gonna win Fanatics Fest or the National. First of all, win what? Second of all, they're both gonna win because if I had the ability to, you know, meet Michael Rubin and talk to him and get him on here, I can tell you what he would say. He wants the national to succeed. He wants the national to set attendance records. He wants more people in this space because more people in the space are more people spending money on his products. There will eventually be more people to come to Fanatics Fest. There'll be more people in the fanatics ecosystem, you know, earning fan cash, spending fan cash. And I'm gonna get to that in a second because it is a, a huge takeaway from the event and vice versa. If I had, you know, the team that runs the national here, and I've had them on the show, but if I had them here, they would say the exact same thing. They would say they're not worried about Fanatics. Fest. As a matter of fact, they would say they're cheering for it. Because if Fanatics Fest succeeds and my friend who brings his daughter there leaves with some cards, or my cousin, who I took leaves with some cards, converts into a collector. And his son leaves and tells his friends, my friend's daughter leaves and tells all the kids at school. My son leaves and tells his friends, who, by the way, some were there today. You know what you're doing. You're creating more collectors. You're sustaining the, the collector base and growing the collector base. And that's great for the national because maybe they won't be there this year, but they'll be there next year or in five years. So Jeremy asked me because I said, listen, yeah, you have to give Fanatics credit. You have to give them their flowers. They throw a hell of a show. They're spending a lot of money. I don't know how they make money on it, but I guess they'll find a way eventually. Or maybe they don't care about making money on this specific event because they, they know that putting something like this on will grow, the space, will be good for the hobby. I said, they really do want the hobby to be better. They want what's best for the hobby. And Jeremy asked, you know, one of his thought provoking questions and it made me come on here and do an episode at midnight on July 18th in a weekend where my feet are about to fall off because I've walked 20,000 steps a day for the last three days and I'm not exactly a small guy, so that, you know, that's no fun. But I have the answer. His question for me was, you think Fanatics wants to make the hobby better? He says, for who? Better for who? What does that mean, making it better? Is it better for the flippers? Is it better for the repackers? Is it better for the hobby purists? Who is it better for? My answer is yes to all of them. It's better for all of them. I'll leave you hobby purists. And I know I have a lot of you who listen till the end. You guys know that it's better for people who are coming in and doing this as investors or flippers, because they know what they're doing. They create a exclusive product for this event that has New York Fan Fest cards in it, soccer cards, baseball cards. They have, you know, the Cactus Jack product where if you get it, and I got two out of three of them my first year not getting Cactus Jack, boo. But I got two out of three of them. If you get it, you can just sell it for more money at, at the show or you open it and sell the cards that are in there. It's, it creates liquidity. They're creating a product that has instant demand right there on the floor. So that's number one. Number two, the show itself. I mean, there are a million dealers there. They are growing this space here, not just at Fanatics Fest, but they Are growing the space. They're creating cards, they're creating chases. So if you're a breaker, if you're a repacker, if you're someone who operates based on, you know, that the modern card, I mean, my son got to hold the Cooper flag. Debut patch auto today, that is a massive chase. It's going to be in product and that product is going to fly, right? They are creating logo men, they're creating cards people want. They're creating inserts people want. Kaiju, you know, say what you want about ultraviolet, Ultraviolet, you know, whatever insert you want to chase. They're making products people want to open. They're creating cards that people want to buy and sell. And the amount of, you know, flipping, buying, repacking stuff that's going on in this room, it I believe is one of the strongest parts of the hobby. And it's growing, you know, I don't see any sign of it slowing down. People are creating, you know, electronic packs, you know, e packs, they're creating digital packs, whatever you want to call them. And there is no slowing that down. And I think fanatics is doing a very good job of, you know, continuing to keep the products good, high end products, low end products, you know, mid range product, something for everybody. So if they're growing the space and they're bringing more people in, isn't that good for, you know, the people who are doing this for a living, the dealers, right? There's more people coming, more people spending money, more people buying more product, more people interested in it. So I put, you know, the professional, you know, industry folks, anyone who bought a table there or buys a table anywhere else, right? It's good that fanatics is bringing more people to this, more eyeballs to this, more celebrities to this. Because that only helps you if your money, if you're, you know, this is your profession, if your money is based on this, you are doing well. Every single dealer I spoke to today, love this show. They're all, you know, selling out of their cards. They all have a lot less cards and a lot more money than they started with. They said Thursday was like a, a Saturday weekend show somewhere else. So you know, that that's a, that, that's a, that's a big compliment, right, to, you know, to investors, you know, to people who might not be someone who sets up at a show, but it's someone who, you know, buys and sells cards. How can this not be a good thing, what they're doing? You have Dana White buying cards, you have Carl Anthony Towns buying cards. And building a collection and showing it off. Tom Brady buying cards and showing them off. You're you. You see Ted Lasso coming up to hobby people and talking to them. You know what I mean? You know, you see content being Ted Lasso with the king of cards, you know, you know, whatever you, whatever your feelings are on that, people are gonna see that and want to come in. You know, people are gonna want to come in. You're gonna grow the space with that. And you have a, you know, a fanatics fest. This fan fest like this. There are people who have nothing to do with cards who come in and see this. And it's not uncool. It is cool. You know, they come, they buy a photo pass, you know, opportunity with Cody Rhodes and they look for his card, they go buy Cody Rhode cards. You know, I mean, that is, that's pretty cool. And you know, that's if fanatics makes this space bigger and better for those guys. I mean, this, that's. There's more money, that's an increase in price for you. The toughest one is always the hobby purist. And what's funny is I think it's such a small segment of the space because no one wants to admit when they make profit here because you're no longer a hobby purist when you sell your car, right? The hobby purists, those guys, they, they seem to be the loudest bunch out there, even though they are, I believe, such a small minority. But guess what, guys? Fanatics, Increasing the amount of people in this hobby, it's good for you too. And here's why. Do you have a kid, have grandkids? Do you plan on having a kid? They plan on having kids. You having grandkids? Be honest. Why did you get into this space? Did you get into it because you wanted to do it by yourself? Did you get into it because you just really loved putting the old cards in a binder and filling them up? Okay? Even if that's the case, and you are that guy and you like doing it alone and you like building your set, well, one day that set will not be yours because you will not be here. And you will have collated that set and you will have put that set together, and you would have been the hobby purist who went and found the best cards, the best. 1965, tops. The centered ones you didn't grade with because you didn't need to grade it. You're a purist. You need to put them in a slab, you want them in a binder, you want to Be able to touch the cards. You want to be able to feel the cards. You want to be able to put them in there. And you want to complete the set. You want to put that binder to the side. You want to build your 66. Heck, maybe you go back to 64. You know, when you pick the right Mickey Mantle for your set, you didn't pick one that's got, you know, pen marks on it. You got the right one because you're a hobby purist. Well, do you want to leave that set to your kid? Do you want to maybe give that set to someone who also enjoys the hobby? Well, guess what? Fanatics is going to make your kid want to be in this space. Because, believe it or not, you know, not to say anything about Tom Brady. I mean, I'd love to spend a couple minutes with him and chat with him. But if you ask my son, do you want to go kick a soccer ball with speed and talk about Ronaldo over in this corner, or do you want to have a catch with Tom Brady? He's gonna go kick a soccer ball. I show speed. I think that's his name. Who. I don't even know what he does, but that's what he would pick. He told me this, and Tom Brady has more Super Bowls than anybody. I would love to play catch with him. I don't know the speed guy from anything, but that's the future. Fanatics understands that, right? And I want to be able to give my cards to my son. I don't know whether he'd be interested in the space, but when I tell him speed is going to be there and neon and whoever else they had, you know, huge streamers. Let's go, let's go. And, you know, say what you want. Gary Vee put Mr. Beast in his set and having autographs. It's smart. This is going to grow the space. Your kid or whoever the next steward of your set is going to be. It's better that fanatics is growing this because they're going to want to be interested in it. Because if you didn't have fanatics doing this, less and less people would be interested in the space instead of more people being entered in space. I know what you're thinking, Mr. Hobby Purists or Mrs. Hobby Purist. I don't care how many people are involved in this space. I just want to be in my basement alone, collating my set. I got my 1983 top set here, and I'm counting to 792 and all 792 cards better be there. That Ryan Sandberg better be centered. Tony Gwynn. Nothing wrong with that. But at some point in time, you're going to want the hobby to grow. You don't want people doing it, because if they don't, yes, that's going in the garbage. And all the time you spent putting it together, making sure it was the best 1983 top set in the world, it won't matter. So you may not love what Fanatics is doing, but open your eyes and realize what they're doing is good for the space. A bigger space, more people doing it, more people interested in it, more people talking about it is good for you. Even if you never plan to sell your 1983 top set or your 1965 top set, even if you just want to keep it in your binder and never show anybody, at some point in time, you're not going to want that thing to be thrown in the garbage. And what Fanatics is doing is making sure that doesn't happen. So who wins? Who are they making it better for? Jeremy Lee. Ask the question, everyone. Whether the hobby purists want to admit it or not. I'm sure they're gonna hate this. I'm sure I'll get some comments on it, people sending me dms, but it is the truth. A successful Fanatics is good for the hobby overall. And from what I've seen at Fanatics Fest, there's no reason to think that they are gonna be anything but successful. I mean, I'm starting to look at where's the 2030 World Cup? You know, are they gonna maybe do a Fanatics Fest in Spain? You know, you know, centered around soccer, you know, can they? Oh, they just got to keep it here in New York. I mean, think about what they were able to do. There was a wrestling event at Madison Square Garden. You know, you had the Knicks just winning a championship. You have, you know, obviously World cup right here where they were able to, you know, have Messi show up. I mean, talk about just everything kind of breaking the right way. It really is a cool thing. And, you know, as great as the nationalism. You guys know my content. You know, I going to national for a long time, as great as the national is, and I'll be there and I'm thrilled to be going to both of them. It's the kind of stuff you don't see at the national because it's a different thing. And there's room for both. And I think both would be smart to, you know, hope that the other one succeeds. As well. I'm sure what I'm saying here is a very easy gloss over. It's not, you know, it's not as easy as I make it sound, but it should be. It really should be. Because, you know, we all love the space. If you're listening to this, this is a space you love also. And if you love it, you should want to see it get bigger. And you'd want to have, you know, your friends do it and be involved and you show your friends how to do it. You know why you love spending your time doing this, why it's your hobby and why it's the best hobby in the world. That's what I say. So two more minutes. Day three Recap. Amazing. Justin Bieber showed up and gave a little concert and like, you know, killed it in the fanatics games. He may win the damn thing. I mean, the kid kicks soccer. He was great at that. He kicked field goals and didn't miss a single one. He was shooting hoops. You know, he actually packed a hell of a punch in, you know, the UFC punching thing. And I don't even know if he's supposed to be in the games. I mean, he just kind of showed up. I saw, you know, yesterday on TV that he was in New York, and I'm like, yeah, that'd be cool if he showed up. And he showed up and, like, sang for people. I mean, only New York and only a fanatics fest, I guess, right? Ian was a couple feet away from Wimby today, a couple feet away from Tom Brady, a couple feet away from Logan Paul saw Michael Rubin. And by the way, I'm gonna throw this one out there for you if you want to know about fanatics and whether or not they're doing the right thing. I said, hey, if we're close enough, you want to take a picture with Wemby? And he points over at Michael Rubin and says, you know what? I'd rather take a picture with him. It's pretty cool. Pretty cool. I mean, maybe he's an oddball. Maybe that's, you know, not what every kid would say. But then he took a picture with him. So that was pretty cool. That was pretty awesome. And I don't want to say it's all business. It is business. Tops. 75 years. Fanatics did a very good job in their booth. And if you listen to this and have a chance to go over there, you should. One more day, Sunday, I'll be there. Cards of the decades. And, you know, my friend and I went, we spent some Time looking at each decade we're like what chord would you add in here? And they did a really good job of putting, you know, making sure that the 83 tops of Gwyn was on the wall for the 80s, you know and, and you know the tops treated Griffey was there, you know and the 84 Mattingly and the cards you would want to see. And they, you know they had every decade 1980s was cool. Got a, you know a jumbo size 1980 tops. Henderson 70s was cool. I mean they, they also do a very good job of you know it is today mixed in with the history because obviously you know Topps has a very rich 75 year history. Let me throw one more thing out there for you. And I talked about this on Jeremy show. Imagine a world where for Christmas or Hanukkah or birthdays or graduation, you are buying tickets to sporting events, you are buying jerseys, you are buying T shirts for your favorite team. You're gonna go to a Nick game and you buy a Brunson jersey. You log into your fanatics account, you buy all those things, you spend the money that you were going to spend anyway and you collect some fan cash. I mean I did it myself this year. I, I have collected a bunch of fan cash because Ian likes wearing jerseys. He likes wearing jerseys at school he likes wearing jerseys. Today had a Patrick Ewing jersey on. Then a Bo Jackson jersey got put on top of it. And you know, lots of fun. But I have fan cash, you know, and I buy items on the fanatics auction. So in this world I, I buy tickets, I buy jerseys. I went to a St. John's game and bought some St. John's I mean I have collected fan cash for my auction buys. If you happen to gamble, you know, you earn fan cash for your gambling on fanatics, you know, casino or fanatics sportsbook. Today before I left, Ian and I decided we should buy a box of cards to open on the train ride home. And there on the table is a little sign that says scan here to pay with fan cash. So wait a second, what are you talking about? The guy came over, he goes, yeah, you want to buy that box of fan cash? Just give me two seconds. I got a little scanner, sort of like when FedEx makes the delivery for you. They got the little scanner, you know, and they, you know, they scan the package and you sign it. He comes over with a scanner, I scan a QR code, my fan cash balance shows up. He scans a little code on my phone and my fan cash balance decreases by the Amount of the box. Done. Think about that for a second. Because it's not happening at the National. I was able to buy a box of cards today using the bonus bucks that I got for buying jerseys at Christmas and for the auction wins that I had during the year so far. Buying through Fanatics Collect. It's a different space, different company, and that was an eye opener for me because they are creating an ecosystem that our hobby has not seen. And for the last 20 minutes, I've explained to you why them growing and them being, you know, bigger and better is bigger and better for the hobby. And I'm sure there are a few out there who disagree. But let's talk. Send me a dm. I had a great time today. Can't wait to go back tomorrow even though it's now, you know, 1220 and I need some sleep. I need to rest my feet. But I hope you enjoyed this one. Wanted to give a late night episode. Mostly it's almost like an individual episode. I know Jeremy Lee's gonna take a walk soon. He likes to listen to my my podcast while he's walking. I didn't want to leave him hanging. And you have to listen to some inferior content. So that's it, guys. Episode 422. Is Fanatics the bad guy? The answer is an emphatic no. They're one of the good guys. As much as you want to potentially say they're not, they are. And I'm rooting for their success because their success means the whole hobby is successful, easy. And that's 422 brought to you by Arena Club, brought to you by the Philly show, and brought to you by Card Ladder, who everybody is using at the show. If card letter died, the show would die. It really is amazing. Use code cage. Save yourself a couple bucks. Notice not brought to you by Fanatics. But it is Fanatics Fest weekend. What else are we going to talk about? And I have been very impressed, very impressed with the show. It has gotten so much better. And yeah, if you have a chance to make it out, you should talk to you guys tomorrow. Take care, everybody.