All The Best Decks Since Team Up

Hello everyone and welcome to the Reasonably Effective podcast. I'm Tone Types as always, joined by Uncommon Fossil. Hello. Glad to be here. And this is Take two because we had a technical issue the first time. So hopefully it's all sorted out. Yeah, hopefully it's all good. Discord stopped working, so that was unfortunate. But anyways, yeah, today we are ranking the very best decks of the modern era of the Pokemon dg. So first of all, what is the modern era? It's something we kind of just defined as more or less since we kind of started playing, which was the late sun and Moon, early Sword and Shield era. Specifically. The oldest decks eligible would be the decks that are, I guess, T Bubb and On. So we have Pikachu and Zakrom here and we have 16 decks. We wouldn't make it set the number of 16 because it's a nice number though. It is a nice number, but we ended up with 16 decks I think we're pretty happy with here that are the best decks, I suppose. Tell us in the comment section if there are any decks you think that we missed sort of really, really big here that, that we just didn't talk about. These are supposedly the strongest decks and also I guess most played. There are some decks that I guess might be good that aren't super highly played. There aren't too many. I was like kind of thinking about it as we were making this list and I didn't really think there were any that were huge. But anyways, we have the. These 16 decks here. The oldest I said is going to be like that team up the very late sun and Moon, early Sword and Shield era there. And we're also taking a look at their whole time in standard. Each deck here, again, just standard that matters for. Yes, Richard Draco. That's very good and expanded. So we're not taking that into account there. And then we also are going as new as literally the last set, I suppose with. With Chaos Rising. Theoretically FPS Rising could have made it. It didn't. But the most recent deck is. Well, it's Drag Bolt, which we'll dive into first. But then. Yeah, I think that's about it here. Yeah. I mean this is also aligns with the Play Dot Limitless era. Right. As well. It's kind of like a sudden. I mean, Sword and Shield on Ex, including those decks from the earlier area that overlapped with the early Sword and Shield era. That's another way to kind of think of it. Yeah. Early to mid. There are a few Mid sun and Moon, Aerodax that were playable at the very beginning of Sword and Shield, which we don't have here. Also, I guess I will mention rotation used to be like earlier than it is now, which is something that I guess is worth mentioning. It's not, I wouldn't say a huge deal. I mean it changes the game certainly. But in terms of what the like these decks, I don't think it actually matters too much. Obviously some leave earlier but yeah, also I guess we didn't talk about this before and I imagine this isn't really going to play into things too much. By are obviously decks that are released at the beginning of the year versus the end of the year. Decks released at the beginning of the year are eligible or like, you know, in standard for. For substantially longer there. And is that going to impact things? And how would they impact things? Right. Because to me there's two criteria. One is, is how good was the deck at particularly at its best and then also how good was the deck? Like how long was it a good deck? Maybe not necessarily the best deck. Obviously if it was the best deck for a long time then that's even better. But how long was it just one of a very good deck as part of it. And obviously then like, you know, decks that like had more time for the rotated get. Get a boost for that. Whereas decks that rotated sooner do get hurt by that. I think it comes into play some but. But it's not the biggest factor. Okay. That's kind of what I was thinking as well there. That. That makes sense. And I guess we will go over the tiers as well. We got goat tier, we got elite tier here. We got great ball tier which is the middle tier. And lie which you said we should do the tiers based on live. Yeah. And I think it's kind of funny. One, people don't really. I feel like they don't know them that well. And two, like what's a quick ball? Like. Yeah, anyways, but then we have. Or that's B tier as well. Great ball. And then we have good enough. You know, it's good enough. Which I think good enough. The term gets slandered and is good enough is good enough. You know, it's in the name and then mid tier at the bottom there. And. And as I said, we'll start with Dragapult Ex here. Dragapult Ex. Obviously currently the best deck in the game. Been the best deck in the game since rotation and a bit before that as well. It's been pretty good since it's come out I guess I'll also read what Dragonpole Ex does if you're somehow not familiar with it. What it does is Phantom Dive for Fire psychic here you do 260 damage counters on your points benchmark in any way you like there. And you have the powerful Drecloak as well. You're a stage two true prizer. And you know, we'll be reading some more of the older cards, I imagine. I'm not going to be going over all the cards in all the decks obviously, but we'll be talking about some of the important things and more so the, the vibes of the deck here. But Dragapult Ex is a slower deck, but not in a bad way. It's able to, you know, kind of take control over the game and it's not like horribly slow. If you give it time, things will go badly for you. If you don't give it time, things still might go badly for you. It kind of depends. But obviously very good post rotation in the current format. Obviously it still has time because it is in standard. So we have, you know, a good chunk more months of this deck in standard, which I'm sure a lot of people aren't super stoked about. But yeah, definitely a very good deck. Yeah. What it's unusual for a stage two deck that doesn't necessarily play rare candies. Right? Like the, the quote typical list that you that Limitless gives us doesn't show any rare candies. I. I don't know, you might slap one in perhaps, but for the most part you're not because the Drake looks so good. So it makes it unusual for a Stage two deck that you get enough value out of the stage one that you like does benefit now like from Badoo which has been around a long time with it and even like unfair stamps just disruption because you need a little bit to get going. What what it's got for it. I mean it's very good now. It's been a very good deck since it's been out. Not going to hit a ton of statistics but looking at like how often these decks were like amongst the most played decks in in played out Limitless, you know, based on for per set that came out it it this there's three decks that were been played a. That played a lot which to me is is a benefit. This is the second most played deck in that there's been 13 expansions when it's been in in the really highly played area. So that's a big plus for it. And it also has been a Dominant deck. Right. Like right now it is the best deck and form. It's been the best deck and format for multiple expansions. Probably will continue to be in the future. Although we're not really giving it. I don't think I'm gonna. We're gonna give it credit for what it's going to do in the future. So this is a deck that I think might go up, but it is one of the best decks. It's gonna be at the higher end of the tier list. Yeah, I think, you know, one of the only things against it is the fact that it's. It wasn't like super good right when it came out. It still has time left, so the overall time is just good. And in terms of what it does, it's not like we're going to talk about some decks that at their peaks are just absurd. Yes, Dragonpool Ex in terms of how it compares to the other decks is very good. But being completely honest, I don't really want to knock Dragonpool for this too much, but a lot of the other decks are kind of not very good. Good. I think a lot of people kind of agree on that, especially some of the newer decks. Like, as I said, there are potentially newer decks that could have like they're eligible. Right. But Dragon Ball EX is the newest deck on here because pretty much all the newer decks are not very good. I think Marnie's was like the closest. Maybe something like Mega Lucario. Mega Lucario just is. Does not belong in the all time great conversation at all. Mar really doesn't either and that's why it's not here. But. But yeah, overall there are ultimately just not as many super good decks right now. So the competition is a little weaker, I suppose, but not really going to knock it too much for that. And as we look at some older Scarlet and Violet, Aerodax, Dragapol EX was competing and doing well with those against those. So I think it's Elite tier. I don't think it's quite in the Goat tier, but I feel like Elite makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I'm with you on that. The one weakness to Dragapult, I mean stage two does hinder it a bit, but also it doesn't one shot things. Right. That's probably the biggest thing. It relies on things to get extra damage moved around or placed around to one shot. So. So that makes it, you know, makes it tough to be a goat if you're not reliably one shotting other. Other Pokemon. And also relying reliably One shotting after you set up a lot like it's kind of slow and not. Or like I mean the most raw power deck. It is consistent though. There are some decks that are not so consistent that we'll talk about that are have like crazy high ceilings. Dragon Ball EX is like Draclo help so much with the consistency and your recordings for attacking aren't actually that crazy. And you slow your point down and you work with that and things go very well there. But that's actually the only. As you mentioned, we had some technical difficulties at the start so we had to re record and Dragon Pull EX is the deck we talked about. I think it fits very well into Elite here. But moving on to the next deck we have Raging Bull which we decided to talk about some and this is definitely an interesting deck here. Raging Bolt Ex if you're not familiar I guess this card is also in standard but Bellowing Thunder for two Energy. A lightning of fighting. You discard any amount of basic Energy from your Pokemon 70 for each card is card in this way. So you need to get lots of energies on your board. But you are a basic here actually with very high HP as well for a two prize basic. And you're able to you know, potentially one shot anything. This deck has seen some slight different iterations as is the case with a lot of these stacks. I mean Drag Bull has seen more different iterations than Raging Bull. But Raging Ball is also the only other current standard deck here I believe. And it's able to, you know, do some big stuff. But it definitely struggles with consistency as well, I'd say. Yeah, I mean it's. It's. It's real by definition. It's a big basic deck. High HP like you said. Basic Pokemon. All basic Pokemon, you know benefits here like this list that plays Latias which is something you're going to want in it to get free Retreat. Now you play with Teal Mask Ogre Punk. You need to get the energies in play. We had the professor what Sada's vitality before to help it power it up when it was probably it was a better deck with that in format. But it's still you know, still a solid deck now which I give it credit for. It's not at its peak but it's still. It's. It's a good. It's still shows its quality that even with losing a key piece, it's still a good deck in. In terms of where it's going to fall though I feel like it was never. I don't know it was ever the best deck of format. It might have been briefly, but it wasn't certainly the best deck and format for long. It was generally the number two decker in contention for the number two deck. That's kind of where it fell, I think, a lot of the time, which is going to put it lower on the tier list than Dragapults. Yeah. Also, and you mentioned this earlier, before Taylor Swagger Pontiacs came out, that Ranger Bolt EX was pretty terrible. Not really played at all. Forgotten by me in taking a look at this deck here, which is definitely. I mean, I was saying Dragonfall wasn't super good before Stellar Crown. I think it flourished a little more with Spark Sparkling Crystal you got. Then Crispin you have. We literally got like Bidoo and Dusklops and things like that. So there are a bunch of cards that really help this out. But. And honestly, like, literally in the next set, there's more stuff that helps at Dragonfall as well, so. Dragonfall just like keeps getting better and better. Raging Bolt, though, has like. When it started, it was like, legitimately not good, so probably one of the worst decks. Um, if you're looking at it of like all. All the iterations of all the decks on here, it was. It was pretty terrible. I would say. It probably goes in. It's one of the bottom two tiers. Right. I feel like. Yeah, I think it has to be because. Because I think it. It came out before Dragapult. I'm pretty certain. Right. Yeah. And. And. And time. Dragapult's been played one of the most played decks 13 times. Raging Bolts been played when those played decks six times. And I think that shows, you know, it just wasn't a good deck early on. So. Yeah, I think it's either mid or good enough. I. I'd say let's put it in good enough for now, the second to the bottom, and just kind of see how things shake out as we develop the tier list. Yeah, I'm trying. I'm looking around and I'm trying to think which decks are worse. And I don't know, it's. There might be something to worse. It's definitely an interesting conversation, but Rageable has been a good deck for most of his time and stand. So I'm finally good enough here. What do you want to move to next though? Or do you not know? Do you want to keep talking Dragon decks going back in time? Sure. Sounds good. We'll talk about Regidraco then. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. So we got Regidraco here. Regidrago V Star is a V Star deck. This was predominantly played actually similarly to Razor Bolt. I kind of compare these decks to each other quite a bit because they both use tlsrgo Pontiacs and we're good with tlms Argo Pontiacs. Obviously regidraco V Star is not standard legal. So the fact that Regidraco was only good with Twilight Masquerade head on certainly shows that it's, you know, not going to be the most highly played deck of these here. But it was very good copying stuff like Dragonpool Ex actually Rich Draco. We start out Shine Dragapult for a little while. Yeah. Then it rotated, but, you know, it was good there. And then we also see that it has like lots of different options. It's a versatile deck. I'd say Dragon Ball EX is somewhat versatile. Region Blood says even less versatile. They're both not very versatile. And this deck rigid. Draco here is versatile. It's relatively powerful as well. In terms of. I mean, Kyurem I'm looking. I like legitimately forgot about Kyurem, even though I played against it the other day in a slugging deck, which went badly for me because they actually set up. But Slow King certainly is not Regidrago. It's like Slow King has like the same upside as Regidrago, except it sets up a lot worse. Regidrago can definitely struggle to set up some though. It's a three Energy attack and a. Essentially stage one here, copying your Dragon Pokemon in the discard pile, which is a fun thing to do there with your attack. It is also a V Star with a once per game V Star power. I'm not really going to dive into that today. I guess it. We probably will actually with some other V Stars, but you know, you can do some good stuff. Well, the V Star power makes it better though, right? That. That does make. Because. Because it was a. You know, if you're not familiar with it, you discard the top seven cards of your deck, put two of the two cars in the discard pile in your head. I was going to say two of those cards. Yeah. But it's better than that. It's any two for the discard pile into your hand. So that's actually really nice recovery. And of course you need to get those attackers in the discard pile. So a nice V Star power. You could have played it say early on with Arceus V Star to get it powered up. Yeah. Because you had to power it up. That. That that's, that's the real weakness it had is two grass and a fire for this attack. So, you know, they printed Gardenia's Vigor, but that just wasn't good. It wasn't what. It wasn't really till Teal Mask Ogre Pond that it became a thing. And then you're relying on Energy Switch, so you need a lot of pieces to get it going. So it's a little bit unreliable is my thought. But very good. Once it was going. Yeah, yeah, you had so many options and just a very good deck. But again, not for very long. Yeah. As much as I like this deck, as much as infamous now for being like super dominant and expanded, which, I don't know, I feel like when people think about Richard Draco, they probably think about expanded. Like people don't think about expanded very much, but it's super crazy good. And so I'd say it probably has to go in mid tier. Right. Let's be honest. It's definitely one of the, well, least. Some of the least longevity of any deck here. Right? Yeah. Except for the, like, in terms of number of times there are good decks. I have this as four times that. It was in the. One of the top, top decks in play. Limitless. The only ones that are less are the early decks and they didn't, weren't, Aren't fully represented there. So here's, here's my question, though. Between it and Raging Bolt, I think, yes, it was a good deck, decidedly less than Raging Bolt, but at its peak, Reggie Drago was better than Raging Bolt. I think, I think it's, Yeah, I don't think it's drastically better than Raging as peak. And I think longevity. Raging Bolt's a lot better. Okay. I definitely think Reggie Draco is, you know, I, like Richie J. Have some. I, it's probably, I mean, it's hard to say. It's. It's not a bad deck. None of these are bad decks. But I feel like it's probably the wor. It might very well maybe the worst deck on this list. Okay. And I, I got what I will say then. I, I, that's fine. I would put it at mid tier, which is the lowest for this. It does get by far the biggest boost if you go from standard format to expand a format. I don't think there's any doubt about that. Yes. I, yeah, I'm looking at like, some of the older decks and I know how good they are and expanded. I don't know much about expand. I know some, I know Richard is Good compared to most people. I know a bunch of expanded to be honest, because, you know, most people don't know anything about it because most people don't play it. But yeah, Regid Draco broke and expanded. I don't know if it's the go of expanded, but it might be. But anyways, we'll move back to another deck. That's I think a really interesting conversation here. That is ADP Archus and Dalian Palia gx, which is. Isn't that what I'm supposed to do? Aren't you supposed to boo it? You're supposed to cheer. Supposed to cheer? Yeah. Let's go. ADP Megal PAL gx. I think this card's a bit misunderstood for a few different ways for a few different reasons. I'm not going to dive into all of it today. We'll see how much of that I dive into now. But you have this GX attack. GX attacks are once per game, but you have altered creation GX also this is a three prize basic. So they're like basic Megas kind of, but they also were. They're like the same HP as Megas, I'd say maybe a little less, but compared to the cards at the time, they were a lot stronger. Specifically the cards that came before for them. And anyways, alter creation for essentially for a Metal and a water, you do 30 extra damage for the rest of the game on your attacks to your point stagnant. And then when you knock out your opponent's active by damage, then you take an extra prize card which is very good. Then ultimate right here for three energy water metal colors. You do 150 again, you'll be doing presumably 180 after use your GX attack there. And then you search your deck for three weeks enjoys and accelerate them to your Pokemon in any way you like. This textile, a bunch of different versions. There's Zashian edp which is the main one. So Zach and Redex are kind of grouped into with it. But like not really. I mean I feel like straight Zacian wasn't good, but maybe that's just me. Yeah, I mean straight Zacian was what you wanted to play after ADP rotated. And my personal favorite over this was Luke Metal, which. Which it wasn't as good as adp. Again, I just like Luke Metal more and that's not gonna be in the list. So unfortunately, because it's just not at that level. But yeah, you were trying to play Zacian is. Is, you know, post after those cards rotated and it's just that was not as good one. One thing is, is ADP Zashi and ADP actually appears four times in play out Limitless the same as Regidrago V Star. And of course our ADP was around before play that Limitless was showing stats. And this is only in the Zashian build. And ADP could do things besides Zacchaeus. Although it was. Although it did get a huge leap up right when Zacian came out. Yeah, yeah. There was ADP Birds or something. There was Keldeo and there I think was, oh, the Bird Trio, which is. I guess there's two different Bird Trio ADP decks, I think. But anyway, so there were a bunch of different builds of this stack. I suppose the main one was Zacian. This tech, I'm just gonna say it's kind of overrated. I like this deck. I personally. Okay, I like to play this deck. It was one of the first decks I played. This was during the PCGO era. And so the like when it switched over, it was with like Silver Tempest, which was like when Richard Draco. Well, Richard V Star came out. But with. With. With the that era, it was like hard to get good decks. This is one of the good decks end up getting and playing a lot of I. I think is good. It is good in single prizers. I have heard people say it's like the reason single prizes are bad. Of course, the counterpoint is single price are still bad and they were bad before and ADP is not out. So that's a counterpoint there. And then also sometimes it gets tossed around as like, I mean, I asked people, this was like a while ago, what's the best stack ever? And the top answer was adp. And it's not like. It's certainly not clearly the best deck ever or anything like that, but it was very good. It was one of the top decks when it was in standard. It was very powerful, allowing you to take knockouts. Generally you're taking two prize or I don't know, I guess three prize knockouts on two prizers twice and then winning. Unlike Squishy Bench Pokemon. Very powerful, very consistent. I think as well, pretty consistent. Depends exactly how aggressive you want to be with it. But overall, just really good and somewhat versatile. Not the most versatile, but with some basic toolbox elements, allowing you to hit different weaknesses, which we'll see in a few different decks. Also doesn't really have a weakness. It technically has a weakness, but realistically has less of a weakness weakness than Dragapult Ex because it's the Fairy weakness. Fairy doesn't even exist. So, yeah, you are fine. Right. Because by the. Because I don't know, because they weren't printing Fairy Pokemon the whole time ADP was around. Right. I guess early on there must have been Fairy Pokemon. Yeah, well, there were Fairy Pokemon in the set ADP was in. Oh, there were. Okay. There weren't any Fairy Pokemon printed after that set, I believe, unless there's like a mini set. But I'm pretty sure Cosmic Eclipse was the last set completely there. So, yeah, there were not really any good Fairy Pokemon, though. So pretty much you didn't have any weakness. And since. And also you hit the very first one for weakness with Zacian, so that was also unfortunate for them. Yeah. So look it very good. It gives you versatility. Its attack did 150 for three, but it accelerated three energy, so you would still use it. Right. Plus, if you're doing the extra 30 damage because you want to get Alter Creation off 180, you could be taking some. Taking multiple prizes there anyway, so. So pretty good. I mean, look, in terms of the. The tier list, it's got to be below Dragapult, but it probably is better than Raging Volt, right? It was more dominant than that, I think, too. Yes. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I definitely think it's closer to. I'm also looking on Regular Limitless, and this is like. This is over. The thing that shall not be named on YouTube. It's probably fine to name it, but. Yeah, there aren't that many tournament results here. It's just kind of funny. I feel like. Yes. Are you saying Great Vault here? I think so. I think you. What you were going to say you think it's closer to Dragapult, right? Than Richie. Yeah, but we were saying Drag Pull is probably going to be the top of Elite. I could see ADP and Elite here, but I'm finding Great Ball Tier as well. Thank God. It is fine. Okay, so let's. Yeah, let's put it in. Great Ball. And I'm just looking for the image here as I'm blanking on other. There we go. Okay. Yep. But then we'll talk about. I guess it's the perfect time to talk about the other Arceus stack. Arceus V Star and Arceus V Star, which is generally referred to as Arceus. I've heard people refer to ADP as Arceus. I think certainly we're not going to refer to it here as that because that's really confusing. But Arceus Vistar is actually kind of similar to ADP. This card has the attack Trinity Nova, which for three energy does 180 and explores three energy. It actually doesn't. It does 200 for three. But you generally use it paired with double Turbo energy. You sometimes do because sometimes you accelerate to it with another one and then you accelerate to your Pokemon V's there in any way you want. And then Starburst Starbirth is your ability once per game. Again, it's a V Star power. Here you search for any two cards. So you played a lot of Argus, right? Yeah. And. And so this is like one of the best abilities ever, right. In the history of the game. Search your deck for any two cards put in your hand. Super awesome. You only do it once per game, but it's so powerful that you know, look, you would play if you didn't play Arceus in a deck. You still play the Tool Forests, Forest Seal Stone, just to search one card for V Star power. And you still felt pretty good about it. So. Super awesome. You know, it'll be interesting as we think about these decks, which ones are in part so good because of their ability. Look, arceus's attack was good. 200 was okay. It wasn't quite enough. You weren't one shotting any basic V Pokemon for the most part. So you need a little help there. But you're powering up another attack or two. So it would three energies would set up some other V Star or a Vmax Pokemon. And you gave you great reliability too. So now we're talking Arceus Dex. Right. Not Arceus V Star is. Is the Pokemon. Right. Because obviously Arceus could also get splashed index just for the. Just for the V Star ability at times. Right. Because it was that good too. But we're thinking Arceus centric decks, which early days was Arceus Inteleon, which was definitely a good deck. A nice skill intensive deck. I like that. And then we had later builds that relied upon other, you know, setting up other attackers, which certainly Regidrago V Star would be one, but Giratina V Star and you know, other. Other ones as well. Yeah, there were definitely different builds there. It's kind of weird. This is, I think the deck with potentially the widest array of. I mean, yes, Arcus is the main Pokemon, but like the rest array of essentially like Dax. Because the different Argus builds, some of them felt completely different from one another. Yeah. And then the attacker was different as well, which was interesting. I didn't play Arcus anywhere near as much as you. It was definitely a good deck. I don't know, I feel like it was never really like a super dominant deck. It's definitely. I'm looking at the. The tier list here. I mean, I'd say it's probably worse than adp. I mean, I like it more than adp. I will say that you don't like adp. Well, that might be true. Arceus. Here's the advantage it has. It actually was when it first came out, it also was that weird stretch where you had Muv Max came out, best deck and format. Then Arceus came out, best deck in format. Then Palkia best deck in format. Right. So it. When it first came out, it was the best deck for an expansion, which ADP was not that good when it first came out. So it's got. So it has more long. It was all right when it came out. Yeah, but it. But it. But it really took off when it got Zacian V though, right? Yeah, Nash, it was. By the way, despite the fact that they are different eras, so it feels different. Zacchin was the next set after adp. That. That is true. So. All right, I'll. I'll put it so. It's great. I think it's great ball though. The same tier. Yeah, I think. I think they are pretty close. I'm not. Yeah, yeah, I. I mean, I like Arceus because it's more versatile, but. But I. I get it. ADP probably a better deck at its peak. You know, you have different ways to split it. I. I'm kind of inclined to say Arceus potentially was a more skilled based deck. Although, look, it's not like ADP was. Was like a simple deck either. So I'm not trying to. And I don't really play dark. Yes, I did and I could actually. So it couldn't be that skill based. Right, Exactly. Unlike adp, the highs. Adp, I think people like to say, like, oh, there's no skill. There's actually. I don't know. One thing I do like about actually both of them. I will say it's. I guess my defense of adp. There are like so many different builds of both of these decks, which you can really express yourself with your deck building stuff and do some really fun stuff. Our kids, we start hat. I'd say a bit more of that though ADP could actually accelerate to like single prizers as well. So obviously ADP is the. The reason why single prizes are so good. Yeah, something like that. No, I think that if they're both in great ball, I. I'm good with them there. I got to Say, at the moment, I feel a little sad about our where we are because I wish we had decks like Arceus and even adp. Right. With a little more versatility than just just being smacked by Dragapult all day long. But yeah, I mean, Dragon Ball has versatility as well with this engine. And you have. You have different like builds of it as well and stuff like that. No, you definitely do. But now I don't know where to go. I guess let's go along that I always said let's go along. Palkia. Palkia got cut. Yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah. So we got. We got Mu Vmax. Let's go backwards a little bit. Muv Max is very good. This stack is. So you have Muv Max and Mew. VMax is a car. Let me actually pull it up here. Well, I'll pull it up another tab. Oh, I need to search for Vmax as well. And Limitless. If you just search Mew, it shows every card from 151. So anyways, up Max does an attack that it copies one of your Bench Fusion Strike Pokemon's attacks. This isn't actually very useful for saying what it does, but it's two colors here. You pay this using Double Turbo Energy pretty much there. And then you pair with Genesective Genes Activity is really the heart of the deck. This has an attack that is 210 minus 20. There is going to be 190, which is pretty good. Not like broken or anything, but for two Energy it's good. It's also a Vmax there, which is a three pricer. UV Max, not Genesect V. And then Genesect V also has this ability Fusion Strike System. Once during a turn, which you can do for each genesis you have, you draw until you have as many cards in hand as Fusion Strike Pokemon in play. You want to fill your bench with Fusion Strike Pokemon. Theoretically, you can thin your hand down to zero, which was pretty doable at the time. And then you can use for this ability draw six cards every time and draw 24 cards every turn, which is just an absurd amount of cards to the point where sometimes people would deck out with this deck. Because like if you were players who just wanted to draw lots of cards, which admittedly it's really fun to draw lots of cards, but the deck had so much draw that it would like shut off its own ability to shut off its opponent's abilities because it like just had way more than it needed. And you weren't looking to draw 24 cards every turn, even though you legitimately probably could. But anyways, the deck is kind of known for being very good as well, I will say UV Max, the card is overrated because Genesis is the heart of the deck. But the deck was good. It was super good when it came out. And it was one of these decks that end up with like a bunch of counters being printed. And the counters were just like, fine. I mean, like, Drapion V is kind of like Liz Clefairy Ex, except Drapion V trades positively and IT one shots it for free, unlike Liz Clefairy, which trades evenly and one shots Dragapult for two. So, yeah, Muvi Max is very good. Well, yeah, and there were two distinct builds with it, right? Yeah. Because you said it works with Double Turbo, which it did, but Double Turbo wasn't around when it first came out, when it was actually clearly the best deck and format. Right. You. There are 10 types, I think. Oh, yes, yes. It was. It was not it. Yeah. Right. You had the special energy and you had something that supported the accelerator energies. Right. If I believe. Yeah. Wait, sorry, what? Oh, yeah, yeah. The support. That's. Sorry, that special energy. Yeah, yeah. So. So, yes, Double Turbo. But at its best day, it was pre Double Turbo energy. Then when Double Turbo came out, it picked back up again. And yeah, the deck is really Mu Genesect. Right. Genesect V is actually the more important card you got to play for a seal stone because you had a V but no V star power. So that was good. And because this whole. The way Genesect V drew, you'd play items that were kind of like. You wouldn't play any other deck, say, like Chromomatic, which I believe came out in the same set as Mu vmax. You'd flip a coin and it was good. When you hit heads, you got. Got a card, but if tails, you got nothing. So generally you wouldn't play it in decks. But you're like, hey, it's a. It's an item. I can just get rid of it. If even I hit tails, I just draw an extra card with Genesect V. So kind of a weird dynamic there. And yeah, a very good deck was a good deck for a long time. Yeah. I mean, I think it's better than Arceus probably. I mean, it was, you know, I. I'm not sure. What do you think? What are your thoughts on it? I mean, I think it might be. I hate. I hate to say this, I think it might be in the top tier. You think Goat tier? I don't. I don't want to Put in Go tier. People regard it as one of the best decks ever. I think it. I mean it was consistently very good. I guess. I don't know. I'm trying to think how good it was like near the end, I mean. Well, so. So it was out during the whole played out Limitless era. So what I'll say just stat wise, it appeared eight times with the like being played 5% or more times. A deck like Dragapult was played 13 times. So it's tied for eight times as the same as Arceus V Star. So it fell off there too. It wasn't always a top deck. Oh, I do want to say one thing regarding that. I want to double check if this is true first. So limit play Limitless actually slightly changed the way it worked by adding in the mini expansions. So for the newer decks they will have more possible times to, you know, get that. Also, Mew Max did come out a bit like late in the year which I don't know. I feel like I shouldn't dock it for. Maybe I should dock it for. I don't know. Yeah, but yeah, it was the last set, right? The last full set at least for rotation and Arceus was the first at the end of the year, not before rotation. They changed. So actually, sorry, yeah, I don't remember when the rotation was so. So anyway, so in terms of play it say. Let's assume for a second it was played dominantly about the same as Arcy C Star. It might have been more more than that but, but, but Arches was almost around for a year more. So therefore I give that edge to Mugenisect. Right. It was better. It was more dominant when it was around. So you. You want it to be. Is it better than Dragapult? That's where I'm not. So search certain. Yeah, I think when all said and done, Draghold will definitely be better. And to be honest that's not that much longer. I mean it's kind of a while longer when we're playing in it. But in terms of sets, it's not that many more sets. I mean Dragapult wasn't like. Also hasn't been the. You know, it hasn't been good the whole time you spend good most of its time and I think its dominance may be a bit more but also some weaknesses it could get. I'm trying to think like it could get hit by path of the peak legitimately and then just kind of stop working. It could get hit by some of the counters which could be really legitimately rough. For it. A draft on V, I was saying was more of a counter. And legitimately it like did really hurt the deck. It could deal with one, but it wasn't super happy to see it. And your opponent could play more than one or theoretically recover. There is some like counter play there. Not going to dive into all that stuff. But I. Okay. I mean, I want to put Dragonfold above it. I'm not sure what's right. Okay, look, I think, yeah, let's put Mew at Goat tier. I'm fine with that. Mu vmax, that is. And we'll keep Dragapult at elite tier for now. And it may stay there probably by the time dragapult rotates, it's going to be a Goat tier. Right. My guess is it's going to be. It's not going to go away as the dominant deck. It may stay the dominant deck until it rotates. If it does that, then it's definitely goat here and maybe even top of Goat tier. Yeah. Well, you said, you said Muv Max in below Dragon Ball. No, I'm willing to put it in Goat tier. Oh, Mu V Max and go. Okay. Yeah, you're, you're. Because that's what you would like to do, right? And I can see the argument for it. It rain was a little short, so I don't think it's going to be top of goat tier, but I can see it going there. Yeah, I'm trying to think of Eddie. I don't think there's any deck I clearly put above it. Looking at this, I don't know, there might be a deck that goes. I think there's one deck that like stomps all over it. Okay. But. But we'll see. You want to talk about that deck now? I think I know what it is. Okay. Well, I think it might be a little better to me is Gardevoir, if that's what you're thinking. Gardevoir. Gardevoir Ex, which was just. Which has again, it's got an insane ability. Mew vmax didn't have an ability, but Genesis V ability was great. Right. Which, which kind of. Which is a key piece. Right, Good. Gardevoir. You're probably familiar that it could attack and I would attack with it sometimes because it had its place. Because especially later the end, the, the last days with the deck, which was, was, which was like a year or more. It relied on single price Pokemon early on. It relied on. On beefier rule box Pokemon, which is interesting too. But it's ability, Psychic Embrace is just one of the all time great abilities accelerate as much psychic. Get energy from the discrepancies you want to your psychic Pokemon put two damage counters on it. You can't knock out the Pokemon which certainly was important as well. But what it did the early days it was being paired like. Like where was what the. The Zashian V that was psychic type and things like that that would do damage based upon energies attached. But you didn't you. You. So you wanted to pile up with energies. You didn't like the damage counters on it because it made these Pokemon more vulnerable. So you kind of were fighting against that was you know that was the cost to pay the dance kinds. But then as. As after those Pokemon rotated and was like this crisis to me of oh what's going to happen to Gardevoir? It's losing all its pieces. It actually probably got to become a better deck because then it was all these single prize Pokemon that did damage based upon damage counters on it. So yes. So you do big damage with a single price Pokemon. Yes. Its HP was virtually non existent but your opponent assuming they still had to attack and couldn't knock it out some other way. You don't mind giving up one prize to have taken a multi prize Pokemon. So it was you know it was just dominant really the whole time it was out and I you know, just really good. Yeah. Also regarding that you mentioned with the rotation of there's Zashian V there was also me2v union wacky card there but was legitimately like I guess good with the deck. I don't know. And then there was also like a single prize gardevoir there. And so you know those rotated and then. But there was still the curlier and then the curlier rotated which is Discord 1 draw 2 a better draw a card then then drew cloak by. By a little bit. I'd say there certainly within the deck really good because you want discard and people are like wow, this card's rotating. That's gonna like die. And then it like got arguably better. So yeah, Drag no Garden Ex is very good. It's a deck that you know based on your data was the top. Right. Yeah it's been. It wasn't a top one of the top 5% decks 15 times and Dragon Bolt was 13 so it's got the most Drake look will will surpass it. I don't know with the mini sets how it actually compares but it's one of you know it's been a top deck. I I think since it. Since it was Printed, it never was. Not that. Right. So, I mean, to me, it's dominance. It's just longevity. And also its versatility. The way it reinvented itself was. Was really impressive. It didn't have the versatility of, say, an Arceus deck or something like that. That had a lot of different forums at one time, but with rotation and new cards, it would. It drastically changed as it needed to. Yeah, yeah, it had some, like, minor variations, but it was mostly, you know, pretty. Pretty similar, but again, at one time, but then later on it changed, which was interesting to see. And like, legitimately, Guard War Ex, as you're saying, has like, one of the best abilities ever. It's kind of crazy. When I saw this card, I was like, this card's crazy. I actually have not played that much Guard War youx, to be completely honest, it's like, I played some. I've played all of these decks, but it's probably one of the decks I played the least of on this list. I'm not sharing that, but it's not my kind of deck. I. I feel kind of bad saying it's the best stack of this era, but legitimately, it might be the best deck of this era. Again, you mentioned Dragon Pole might, like, surpass it, but. Yeah, I feel like Gardwar is. I. I feel okay putting it, you want at the top of the tier. That's right. I mean, first it's got to be Goat Tier, right? You don't doubt that, I assume? No, no. Okay. And I think it was. It was always a top deck. Mu vmax was not always a top deck. The. The top deck, I mean. Right. I mean, Gardo wasn't always the top. No, but Gardevoir is always, always a really strong deck. I think MEW had its falling off at times, so I'd say, yeah, that's probably true. And Garden was out, like, longer as well then compared to mew, which I guess, like, I mean, it means it's been played more. So. Yeah. Garden, I don't feel bad putting above mew. I'm always wondering if you shouldn't be in Go tier, but I feel like it feels fair in Go TO as well. Okay. I mean, yeah, I mean, I could move it out of Goat Tier depending what happens. I don't know if there's anything else that's going to join Goat Tier, so. Yeah, we'll see, but then I guess we'll talk about. Or do you have a deck you want to go to? I was wondering if you want to hit the VMAX decks now just finish those off or you want to do something else or. Yeah, I'm fine with that. So let's talk the. Well, which. I know which one you want. Let's go to attendance. I guess you want to talk about Turners. Okay. I actually like the other one better, but. And I think the other one is a better deck. But this is my deck. I played this deck a bunch or turn as Vmax with an ability. It's not as good an ability as like Arceus or. Or Gardevoir, but it let you have eight. As long as all your Pokemon were Darkness Pokemon, you could have up the Edge 8 Pokemon to your bench. And then it did dread end did 30 damage for each of your darkest Pokemon to play. So with a full bench eight, nine, you'd be doing 270, which would one shot a lot of things at the. At that time period, but not everything certainly. Well, it would. It wouldn't want V maxes, but it would one shot all the V's and it could one shot some of the tag teams as well. Correct. Yeah, one shot in honestly, pretty much all the tag teams. Some it was like 10 short on, but you had like Larry's exaggerated as well, which you could do to just do 10, which I. I mean I enjoy that card. So. Yeah, it was. It was very strong. It was like just a raw power deck. Yeah, just like was one shot in tag teams like peeker arm and stuff. And in some sense I. It played a lot like a big basic deck, even though it was an evolution deck. Just because it. The. The. The. The like the downside, it just. It took two energy and there wasn't. Early on there wasn't energy acceleration. So that was a real weakness with the deck. Although the V had an attack if you went second that you could excel in energy with it. So you would take a rely on that. But it had really good pieces. It had Crobat V, another darkest Pokemon drew out to the F6 cards at hand on play. It had like you said, glare and Zigzagoon. That put a damage counter. What One damage counter when opponent's Pokemon that was important. So it had good pieces. I trying to remember. I forget what the other good Darkness Pokemon were early days. Then later on it was mostly Crobat. There was like Hoopa and like Glenn Weezing. Yeah. Which like fine. Yeah. Some other attackers, I mean glared. Wheezing came along later. Right. I believe. And that kind of. It was. I guess it was the coughing was a little later. Yeah. Okay. The Coughing with the Ascension, that made the wheezing a lot better. So for ability shut down and then later on you got. We got the Dark Dark patch, which then gave you some ability to power up later in the game. So. But the early Eternus builds didn't have the wheezing the later ones did. It kind of got a kick up when that coughing got re. When the new coughing came out with Ascension. So Eternus was. I would say the. When it was printed, it was the best deck. I think it immediately fell off the next set. The next set had a counter to it. Two sets. The next set was Vivid Voltage. Oh, which is. Yeah, that. Which is one of the worst sets ever. Right. So yeah, I mean it's had. Yeah, some good cards. It did have a counter. And Colossal vmax, which just unfortunately that wasn't good. No, but yeah, it wasn't. Yeah, look, Vivid Voltage wasn't. Oh, actually, sorry, I have some. I have something to say regarding this. So Colossal vmax, we didn't actually talk about this at all on our criteria. So. Colossal vmax is actually good in Japan. Japan used to have different formats. Like Rotation was later in Japan, sets came out earlier. So like Colossal vmax was actually good. I don't know if I don't think this actually impacted a trend, just really. But Castle VX was legitimately very good in Japan or pretty good. I don't know exactly how good. I assume we're just like ignoring all that because we don't really know anything about that and it's not a huge deal, but figured I'd mention that. Okay. Right. Because Rotation is. It's. Well, rotation is basically the same. Their sets come out at a different time and there's a few cars are different, but things used to be much more different in the past. So. Yeah. Yeah, we're not going to worry about the Japanese standard format to the extent it was different than the International standard format. So yeah, Turnus was good. It was good. Short for a short period of time. It came back. But then ultimately there were better options and being a three prize Pokemon once its weaknesses became exposed became a real problem, I would say. So, you know, it's not going to be as high up on. On the tier list as I would like it. Honestly. I. I think it might be like under the good enough tier. I don't know what you think about it. Yeah, no, that's what I. Where I was thinking probably worse than Raging Bull. Yeah, I'd say it's like a little worse than Raging Bolt. Probably. It's close though. Yeah. I think Raging Bolt was a better deck for longer. I mean also because of the world dynamics in the world. Eternus didn't get a lot of IRL play. So that. That, you know, which probably hurts it in this ranking some just because it didn't get the. You know, it didn't get a chance to shine in the big tournaments that much. But I. I do think Eternatus, it was weaker. It was a stage two. It was, you know, three prizes. So, you know, I think Raging Bolt would probably be the. The better deck. Honest. Honestly. So in another one's near the top of this list. But I think yeah, right now it's the bottom of the good enough. The second to the lowest tier. Yeah. Then we got the other Vmax deck which is Raptor Vmax. This is a deck that I played some. This deck was pretty interesting with a bunch of different builds over time. Yeah, there's rapid strike. There's some rap strike synergies including the rap strike energy which is two energies for. For this. It's just going to be two for the second attack and it pays the surprise well. Gale thrust is 150 if you move from the bench to the active. Kind of like my Lopunny Ex which is currently like finite I guess. I don't know. It's kind of falling off but it's. It's. Or has it fallen off? I feel like my Golopa has fallen off. I actually want to check on that real quick to see where that deck is. It's not falling off that much, but it's stack 10 or 9 now. But it's similar there. And then your psyched attack here does 120 to 2. Your points Pokemon for 3 and you discard the energy as well. Again, this is a 3 prizer. It is also weak to psychic at this time. There's this weird weakness triangle and you actually kind of allude to it with Eternus. This hits Eternus for weakness. Friendly if doesn't one shot it. But it is still really rough for Eternatus and overall Mapstikers through Vmax had some different builds and partners. It was, you know, the main focus of its deck. Or like the decks that was played in for a while but could certainly be a nice piece in other things as well. I'm trying to think. I mean there was. There's like the builds with Jirachi and then Natalion and you can like play octillery there which was just a part of it. And Then I know it was playing Sylveon some. I suppose I can like look. Oh, and there's the Inteleon vmax deck as well, which apparently is most of the stuff here because. Yeah, because of stuff. So Arceus Flying Pikachu, Urshifu. Okay. Yeah. There's some weird stuff as well. And yeah, I don't met a sham V in the deck as well. I don't know if you mentioned that. Yeah, which classic band card. Broken card. Yeah, exactly. So that therefore, you know the deck's a goat when cards get banned from it as well as scoop open that. Right. So that's. Well, that's part of why the Italian play Flapple in it. So it was. It was a good deck in that it was a bit of a versatile deck, I would say in that it had the two attacks. The one the gale thrust that did 150 for one energy. A solid amount of damage for one energy. And then. But then also GMAX Rapid Flow where you hit two Pokemon for to 120. So did good numbers, not huge numbers, but. So it was a. It was a tricky deck to play. I probably. I think I played it more than you and I usually with the intelligent engine because you kind of. That just gave you such consistency to. To get going. But a lot of the time with the deck I felt like I was losing. And then. But times I would realize at the end, oh wait, I have game this turn. Like all I take four or five prizes, you know, the last turn I go, wait, I. I got the pieces that I need and boom, I just like, you know. So it was a weird deck like that. It's a very stressful deck from my playing with it, but a fun deck in its ways too. Where is it. Where's it going to go in the list? It does get tricky to me. I don't know. Was it ever the best deck is one question. It was. I think it was like when it came out. Okay, says you're looking at other decks like a Tardiness V Max Picture Zekrom, which I hit for weakness. And also I will say it's probably the deck that weakness matters the most because there are some decks that were good that hit it for weakness. There were some decks that it hit for weakness. There's actually a card Jirachi GX that was out when it came out that turned off its weakness. And then all the best support Pokemon in the game, it also hit for weakness, which was really interesting there and mattered because it didn't do tons of damage without Weakness there. So. But I'd say it's probably looking at these stacks. It's probably also in good enough tier. Is that you don't think it's. It's. It's great ball tier. I mean it's definitely not better than ADP and it's right. No it's. You're right. It's not at the level of Archeus. I don't think Arceus was. Was really had. Had certainly more consistency. Urshifu was one that was a bit in and out at times depending what the counters were. And also one of the things with Urshifu because. Because there's the mew with the bench barrier and that rotated and then it was like oh, is Urshifu going to take over the world? Because it could hit the bench without stopping it. And it didn't all sudden get better. So that was an interesting thing showing the limitations. And then Manaphy came out like right after anyways. Which is bench barrier. Right. But. But during that period when it was free to hit the bench, it also didn't jump to the top deck and format which I thought it might. So. Yeah. Good enough tier. Where do you want it in good enough tier. I'd put it above Raging Bull and an Eternus there, I think. Okay. Yeah. I mean it might rage you bolt might be better. But that's a opinion. It's definitely better than. And that's fine. Putting at the top of a good enough tier. Yeah. Then we got another deck here which is pretty. I guess, actually. Let's talk. Let's talk Charizard, I think. Is Charizard the third deck on your list? Yeah, yeah. 11 times. So you have Gardevoir 15, Dragapult 13, Charizard 11. Then it drops off to eight. So which is. Which is a noticeable gap. Right. It. It's was played a lot. It was. I don't think it was ever that as good as it's his play rate. But that's. You know. What do you think about it? I mean it's really good. It's a deck that is. I mean it's a stage two, which is like a downside, I suppose. So there's some very good decks on here. There's stage twos obviously. And then it takes like it does good damage on its own and it's essentially free to attack with. And then its HP is high. I mean just. I describe it as a raw status attacker and the best raw stats attack on the like consistently. When I use that term, I'd say Charizard is the best draw status attacker in the game because its damage is good. It's essentially free and it's like HP is high. Its weakness isn't too bad. There are times it was like a little annoying, but to be honest it wasn't really that bad. And then it also. I'm also yeah, this like sample deck or like the average decklist and it's like really wacky how all the evolution lines are like kind of strewn all about. But yeah, yeah, I mean it just worked well and it left room for other stuff as well. I mean it was just a simply good deck. I think it was. You know you could do some interesting stuff with like the dust store line there to take really like essentially big one shots on anything and there wasn't too much your opponent could do about it. And then also there was Psyduck, but that was later there. And then admittedly Dustino was later on into Charizard's lifespan as well. But Charizard was also, you know, just. I. I don't know. I wish I had more analysis but it's just quite simply good. Yeah, no, Charizard's really good Pokemon. It actually more than power than self powering because it actually needed two energy. It's only three so you could, you could make some use it in a box style deck if you wanted to power up something else. Usually you didn't want to. You got to play Pidgeot Ex because it's a rare candy deck. So Pidgeot EX was so great. If you want to do that, chuck that in and then you're really good to go. And then when Dusknoir came out it was good before Dusknoir but then Dusknoir came out. You got the place damage counters and boost boost your damage level. So really good there as well. I remember the reason I don't like Charizard EX now or I didn't like it at the time, which is it was one of those decks with four arverns with only one tool, the four seal stone. But yeah, no, realistically deck is very good also like a card we have in standard Mars ex which is like fine. It's. It's been a fine deck. Charizard DX is essentially an objectively better Myers. They're not literally the same but they're pretty similar. Yeah. And Charizard is like just a lot better. Yeah. Yeah. I think I forgot about how this deck was looking at the Rotom V and it kind of just takes some turns where you just set up and just Say done, use your ability and then just wait. But you can still win and if falling behind a prize is okay. So yeah, it. Look, I don't think it's. It's at goat tier though. So the question is, is it elite tier? I'm guessing it probably is. Right. Yeah. I put it below dragapult even at this point. But yeah, I think close to dragonfold at this point. Yeah, I mean Dragon Pult's been a more dominant deck more times I think than Charizard was even at this point. Yeah. Yeah, I think. I think it's close though. I think. Yeah, I think you're right. I would agree. So where do you want to go next? You want to talk about the one single prize deck we got? No, I don't want to do that. Let's talk about also the single price deck's not a single price deck. Well, let's be honest. But now let's talk about actually the last Ex Era deck here I think. Okay. In Goldengo, goldengo is a deck I like. I like, you know, string cheese and all that stuff. So Goldengo Ex, a card that is fun, I guess. And it's a card that you just discard any amount of base ganju from your hand. You do 50 for each card discarded in this way. You can also draw a card or two every turn of this ability. There it is. Only one medal on stage one. And yeah, I mean quite simply it just does lots of damage. It like one shot stuff. Yeah, it's pretty good. It wasn't. Was it good when it came out? It might have been, I don't know, like this sec was like good, fine to good most of his time. Yeah, it was a deck people liked and wanted to play and probably played a bunch, but it wasn't getting great results. It was more like the. The commons man deck rather than the skilled players deck early on. And because. Because it had this promise of. I like stage one. What energy attackers. Because I feel like you could. They set up pretty consistently at the end. The ability is pretty good. Obviously you draw what, what three, four cards a turn with it. But it didn't quite have the pieces. It came together later and got better over time so that I. I would say. So that's where it gets a little tricky with it. Yeah, I mean not a. It's a recent card so I don't feel like there's a. We need to say a ton about it. It's been very good. I think it's going to end up lower on the tier list. Than a lot of people want, I suspect. So we might annoy people with Roy put it. Because I don't think it was a great deck. I think it was a very good deck and I played it a bunch. You played it a reasonable amount too. It would work for sure. But it was never the best deck. Well, no, it probably was. It had great one shot ability. That was its big threat. So it's obviously it's not in contention for great tier. It's between what it might be great ball level. I'm not certain about that. Or. Sorry, not 9 tension for goat here. No, it's not goat tier. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You said not great here which. Oh, sorry. Sounds like. Yeah, sorry it's not goat tier but. But I don't. Maybe it's elite tier. I'm not sure if I can quite make that. Oh, wow. You're. You're a lot higher than this on this than I was thinking. Okay. I. I don't think it's great. I don't think. I think great ball Deer is too high. I was gonna say it's between the bottom two tiers. Okay. I mean, I don't know. It's like. I guess it's. It's. It's all right. Yeah, it's definitely better. It's a lot better than Richard Draco. I don't know, I feel like, you know, it's been. There have been times it's legitimately been not a super. Like. Like a. Just like a pretty legitimately mediocre deck in the metagame. And then there have been times when it's been quite good. It's been between those two. But I, I don't know. I'd say it's probably in. In good enough. Maybe the top of good enough. Maybe. Maybe it should be in great ball. I don't know now, but. All right. I mean, no, I mean Arceus was a better deck. Longer I think, but yeah, put it top of good enough. I. I'm okay with that. It might be a little low, but I, I think I, I could. We can. I can see the arguments for it. Yeah, I can see it in great ball if you want as well. The more they like think about it. But I don't know. I don't know. I mean, we need some more cards in great ball. Do you think we're going to get more there or do you think we should stick it there? I think we. We should. I'm not sure where these are actually going to end up, to be honest, but I'm fine Sticking in Great ball. That's fine. Okay, so bottom of Great Ball, right below Arceus. Yeah. Now we could talk about everyone's favorite single price deck, I guess, which I kind of very much like said no to. I don't know why I said no. So seriously, I just wanted to talk about Koldengo. But yeah, we got. We got Lost Zone, which I guess I'll read. I'm not. I don't feel like reading these cards. But Lost Zone has a bunch of different. Actually it has some different decks as well. We didn't like fully determine what we're gonna count in it, but. Right. Pretty much anything with Comfy is kind of what I'm seeing as a Lost Zone. But let me see. You got lost on box, I guess is the. The main deck here. Yeah. Which this deck focuses on, obviously Lost Zone, which if you're not familiar, the Lost Zone is a mechanic where things just go. And like. It's like the disco pile, but they can't be recovered. And the idea is you get cards into Lost Zone using. There's a Comfy, there's causes experiment. And that's mostly it. There's a tool as well. And I guess there's also a stadium. But that's kind of bad for this deck, honestly. And then you have Mirage Gate, which accelerates a bunch of. Or accelerates two energies on an item. It's like Crispin, but like better. But you need seven or more cards in Lost Zone. Also, Kramer attacks are free if you have four more cards in Lost Zone, which you only attack for free with it. And then you have a Sableye, which does a big spread attack if you have 10 or more cards in the Lost Zone. So you just have some different attacks there and different stuff you can do. Some really versatile stuff you can do there. There's also Giratina V Star, which is grouped in here. Or maybe with Arceus. Kind of depends on the build there. But that was another, I guess, payoff as well. But a powerful attack right there. Yeah. It had, I would say, like Radiant Charizard I would put in the deck. It's another single prize attacker. But yeah, you could power Radiant Greninja or Radiant Greninja. Yeah, it depended obviously Radio Ninja help you set up. Radiant Charizard was. It was a very powerful attacker though. So I do want to say Radio Greninja was also a very good attacker in the deck. That's true. Because you could power up a one turn as well. So you could. Because you had the Lost on Engine which got your pieces. And also you had Mirage Gate which let you. And once you had seven cards in the Lost Zone, then you could accelerate two and look for your deck. Search your deck for two basic energies of two different types. They couldn't be the same type. Right. And then attach them to your Pokemon any way you like. So you could power up your Radiant Greninja in one turn or like this list here like you plays like a Palkia and Iron Hands, Roaring Moon. You could go with that. Well, this, this one list I called up, I think it. So yeah, I think this might be towards list. So. Yeah, you know he likes doing stuff so. Yeah, yeah. But. But it allowed it a lot. That's why it's not like it. You consider it isn't always a single prize deck in that it's more of like a single prize engine. Sometimes it was a single prize deck if it's Sableye Cramer and Radiant Charizard. But here like Palkia, Iron Hands, Roaring Moon, it becomes kind of almost like the Inteleon engine was. But power, you know, using it for. For rule box, you know, multi price Pokemon. So it was very versatile. We had Pokestop as well. So a lot of good tools to make the deck work. Yeah, just a, just a good deck quite simply with a lot of options. I'm not really sure where this deck goes probably. Oh, this probably goes in Great ball tier, doesn't it? I think so. I mean this one's tough because we don't know what the deck is. Right. It makes sense that we called it Lost Zone Box but it had a lot of variety and it had a lot of different things over its lifespan. So it was. Yeah. I mean at times people could argue for Lost on Deck being the best. A lot of times there wasn't a Lost Zone deck at the best. So where's it going to go in the Lost tier? I lost in the Great ball tier. I mean I think it's definitely above Goldengo myself. Yeah, I think Goldengo should be moved back down now that I'm like looking at it. I think like Lawson clearly is much closer to those Dax than Goldingo is clearly closer to the. The decks below it. Okay. But I'd say it probably goes. I mean I think ADP is really good. I think Archeus V Star is not that good. So I'd put it between those two. But I mean I know you're kind of on the other side of that. I'm the Archeus fanboy here. So I, I mean, yeah, I Mean, they're kind of comparable in just very different ways. Right. So if you want to put it in the middle, that's fine. It's a win for the single prize decks. It's better than Arceus. Yeah. Everyone's favorite single price tag. Iron Hands Ex and Gears Unity Star. Yeah. Yeah. Then we got. I guess we'll do the. Let's do. Do an older deck now. Like an old. You know, we got three older decks here, so we'll save Luga till the end, I guess. Let's do Pikarom, the oldest deck here. Pikachu and Zekrom, of course. Everyone's favorite Pokemon, Pikachu. Oh, I went to look at decks and so this deck saw play mostly before somebody kind of before we played and I saw some different like builds, but when it came out was very good paired with. I mean you had Electro Power. You had a Tapugo Prism Star to power it up. What Petro Zekrom does is it's actually a similar attack to adp. It's the same attack, essentially. Well, I don't know if the same, but very similar. Full blitz. You do 150 for three lightning. Also it's a 250 or so 240 hp3 prizer. So like this card was broken when it came out. It's the most clear example of power creep on any of these cards here. It would be probably not very good today. I mean expand it's not very good. But then you do 200 for three as your once per game GX attack. Or you can do 200, 170 snipe, 200 active 170 snipe, which is admittedly very good. I would be today, except it is 6 energy. So that. That's a lot. But this is, you know, a good card. You got Electro Power, which is like the new. The. The relatively new premium power Pro. You also have the Antep Prism Star to power it up as well as Thunder Mountain Prism Star. Later you had Vikavolt V at the end of its lifespan you had Bolt on V. You had some more disruptive stuff. I personally was never a huge fan of the stacks or specifically later on. I thought it like lost every matchup. But I also thought that was the case for MV Max. And so anyways, Pikachu in Decron Tag Team GX though, very good, somewhat versatile, pretty powerful. When it came out it was like absurdly good. Just kind of outpowering every other deck around it quite simply. But you know, as time went on, I'd say I struggled a bit more. I. I don't know where this. This might be. Great ball. Here's my thought. Yeah, I mean, it was good. I. I didn't play this deck much. First off, this was the Pokemon TCG online days, and it wasn't. Cars were harder to come by, so especially early on, didn't have the resources to get this deck. So I didn't really play it, unfortunately. So it. It was. It was also good before we really started playing a lot of it. So unlike somewhat like ADP was good later on. Somewhat. This was. I mean, they all came out the same year, but it. So what you said. Great ball. Yeah, I think Great ball. I'd say it's probably worse than adp. I mean, ADP is just such, like a card with such a great legacy. Yeah, well, I know it was great, like, such a big legacy. And Pizza and Zachrom, I guess, also has a bit to like. Like it's an older card compared to all these other cards. And it was, you know, the first of this, like, really big era. And so it was able, you know, it was again, legitimately, like, outpowering the decks around it when it came out. I'm seeing kind of what we see with, like, Dragonfly. Yikes. Now. But it was like just when it came out then other cards came along with a similar power level. Yeah. And. Or honestly probably a little bit of a higher power level picture of Jack was, I guess a transition period there. So I'm fine. I don't know. I feel like maybe the bottom of. Great ball, to be honest. Okay. Because it doesn't. Didn't have probably the staying power of arc. Yes. And Lost zone. Right. Yeah, I believe it was. There's a time when, like, there are a few times it was like, just super good. But realistically, as an overall deck in the betting game, it was. It was just kind of fine for. For a lot of its time. Early on, though, it was. It was quite good. Okay. And again, you know, as we spread these things out, these, These. We're spreading them out, but all these decks are all very good decks. They wouldn't be under discussion at all. Yeah. Then we got a. Another really fun deck from this era. We have Welder box. Welder box is actually not super clear. Also, we all just say the next two decks. Here we have Mutual Museum, you copies, Pokemon in the discard pile, I believe. Me too. Mew was primarily played with Welder. I'm not super confident on that one if that's the, like, what the most played build of it is. But I know one of the big ones was Welder there, which again pretty, pretty, pretty powerful there. And you, you know, you can't be GX's new disco pile or on your bench, I guess also exs, but those weren't in standard. You could pair it with what? You could do it with some like psychic stuff. It was either fire psychic mostly. There's some other builds. There's like a lightning build. There was a, a grass build and stuff like that. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, I mean Mewtwo a Mew was. Was versatile. Obviously you're attacking with Mewtwo a mew but a very nice box style deck. The energy was like Reggie Drago beast. No, you had to have the energy, not like Reggie Drago. You had to have the energy to match what you're attacking. So that's why you had to have a tight focus for it energy type to make it work there. So you played a little more Mewtwo and Mew than I did. I'm the one that played more Welderbox than you. I would say, you know, Welder box was one that would set up potentially to start on turn one with his energy acceleration do doing big damage because it was. You got to accelerate two fire engines from your hands when your Pokemon draw three cards. Very good. And potentially, you know, if you're playing with the tag team, which I'm blanking on right now, you're doing what, 200 on your first turn, I think. And then. Yeah, potentially. And then 230 your next turn and you, if you pulled that off, you would often just you've crushed your opponent there right at the start of the game. Although then if you missed on your Welder, well, you just lost the game too. So Welder was a very swingy deck. I think Peek around was. I mean, me too. And me was more stable deck, probably more consistent deck. Yeah, I guess it's definitely interesting being like kind of matchup dependent. Well, I don't know if matchup depends what the right word. We could like have a lot of tech cards and lots of different options. It was a really like the definition of a versatile in terms of when you're playing it. It's probably my favorite deck ever. I want to play it somewhere in expanded, but there are some cards in full expanded that would be cool to add that we don't have in live expanded, but it's still like kind of fun and live expanded though. Not super strong, unfortunately. But overall, I don't know. I'm trying to think like they're both good. I feel like Mewtwo me kind of felt, I guess fell off, but it was also like split between a bunch of different builds. Yeah. And Welder was, I don't know, I guess and Welderbox had like different attacking options. I feel like Welderbox is probably, I would say it's worse because like, and you were saying it and you were the one who played it and I didn't play, I played it less than you. And you know, in playing Guess as well, it would just like miss. And its highs were good. We're going to talk about Lugia in a minute. And Lugia's highs were higher and it's, I guess its lows might have been lower, but like was absurd when it set up. Welder wasn't as absurd as Lugia. I feel like YouTube goes higher than it and it probably also goes in great ball tier. And I'd probably put maybe they both gone. I don't know. Where do you want to put them? Yeah, I mean now I, I, I want to take a point away from you two of you, because I looked at the decklist here and I see Ganga or Mimikyu, which just gives me nightmares looking at that. It's really good. Horror House GX Attack. I, it was a whole, you know, it would just stop you from developing the game much, much worse than Badoo. You can only do once per game. But it was a huge swing. So I, I, I kind of hate psychic decks from that time period for that reason. But good, good times for you, right? Yeah. So I mean, what are we talking, like good enough tier, you think like, like for both of them? Well, you think welder box is good enough to here? You think Mewtwo and Mew is what great ball tier? Yeah, maybe. I'm not sure how. I mean, you played more welder box, so I don't know how you'd come in. Like, I feel like I know a lot of the decks are good enough. You played more than I have. I mean with Welderbox, like later on you had with Kramer and V. Right. You could take out the Dedenne snipe those from the bench. So it could do a lot of things. You could play baby Blacephalon too. So it wasn't, you know, it was a good deck certainly. But I, I, you know, it wasn't as good as like arcus, I don't think. Not as consistent. Right. That, that's to me. So that's why I think I put it it good enough tier. I Might put it top a good enough tier. Welder box. Okay. Yeah, I'm fine with that. Also, what was the deck? There was a specific name for the deck that was Blacephalon Kramer and Russia. Right. Or was it like just Welder box? That's a good question. If, you know, I can't think of it. There might have been. Or maybe that's just what Welderbox was at the. At that particular time. So if, you know, let us know in the comments. Yeah, I know there's a lot of like goofy names to decks at that time, but. Yeah, then. Then I feel like we could just put. I'd probably put Mewtwo Mew above Peak Haram below Arceus Restart there. Okay. I think that's. That's. Yeah, yeah. Now. Yeah. Mewtwo Mew was more versatile than Pika Rum, certainly. And it seemed like it. It kind of came back different. Different forms. Yeah. Then we have the last deck, which is Lugia V Star, which essentially what it does is its ability puts two Archaeops into play. One string in the game, Archaeops accelerates special energy. Two special energy each. And then with the special energy she's. You can like power up. Well, when it came out, it could power up like literally any Pokemon in the game in one turn. So that was kind of crazy. Like there was a volatile, amazing, rare, which took five energies of three different types and you could just like power it up. And then there was then Aurora Energy, which is the one to pair with it, as well as literally every type energy rotated. So that was something. And also that deck, I believe that was the pcgo, the last PCGO deck. Right. Like that was the format pco. PCGO got stuck in it. Well, yeah, they stopped building ptgo and then people switched to Live and then they gave everyone a free Lugia deck and that. And basically everyone was new there so that no one had the resources. So you could only play Lugia basically on either format. Another platform. Yeah, so that was something. And anyways, Lugia wasn't very consistent. It was, but it was like really powerful when it set up. And then later on it became, I guess a safer deck. I didn't really play much Luya in general, to be honest, because I never got to set up. But it's a powerful deck. But it's like swingy. It's pro. I said probably the most swingy deck on here. If you set up, you are really good. And then also it has like that potentially the highest high of any deck. Again, you could like Power up any Pokemon in the entire game. But I don't think it's like super good in the grand scheme of things. Like, overall, it kind of fell off kind of quickly. Well, it was the last set for the year. Right. Which they didn't intentionally because it was crazy good. Neither of us were big fans of it because it was really swinging. If you set up, you were amazing, and if not, well, sorry. Because like that played the stadium that you flipped Mesa Goa, right? You flipped a coin. So it relied on things like that. Oh, if you hit heads on Mesa Goza, you're really good. If not, you know, you just. You lose the game. Which, which wasn't a good feeling. But it had the f. When it first came out, it was the best deck. It wasn't the least consistent deca format. But you know, if you went to a tournament, a Lugia deck was going to win. If you brought Lugia, you might be done with the immediately because you didn't get lucky. But someone's going to get lucky and they were going to roll the tournament. They lost the cards. The deck kind of fell off. But then, but then the single strike deck really became the way to play it. Right. So. And then I think there might even been a build later than that. Right. So I think it did see some different incarnations of the deck, which I. Which I like decks that, that have some flexibility. So it's a good deck. Right. I think it's near the top of the tier list, though, unfortunately. Near the top? I. I don't know. I mean, I wouldn't put it like. I wouldn't put an elite here. I'd put it probably. I mean, I put it below Lost Zone. You think so? Like below Austrian. I mean, part of it. Look, we don't like the deck. I get it. But its highs were as high as any deck here. Right. There was no deck that at its best was better than this, was there? I guess. I don't know. But I mean, I think UVX's high might have been a little better. Maybe. Also it just really was not very consistent. And then also. Which is harder. And then also its high was really short. Like it was one set. Yes, that's the thing. It was that, you know, bright shining star that burned itself out very quickly. So. Which I was glad for, and I think you're glad for. It's not like it's like Shadow Rider, Calyrex, which isn't on the list. Yeah, well, this is better than that though, right? When it's set up, it Was just insane. But that's fair. Great ball. Okay, I'm below lost zone. So above Arceus. Certain. You know, Arceus was the more consistent deck for sure for, for a long period of time. Lugie was the better deck at the peak, but you know, much more, less consistent and, and, and not as good as often. And you know, that's where it gets tricky to measure these things. Yeah, no, I'd put it. I mean I could see it on this side, I guess. I, I don't know. So where do you want to put it? You're not. It's up to you. Do you want it above or below Arceus? I think those are the choices for it. I put it above Arc. Yes, I guess, I think, I think it's pretty close, but okay, I put it above. All right, I'm good with that. So now we got the definitive tier list you want to give us. Read it off where we get going? Sure, I'll read it off. Especially with the audio listeners here going from bomb to top. We got Reggie Draco in mid tier. It was good. Yeah, but it wasn't good for that long. And then we got the good enough tier. Moving from again bottom to top. We got Turnus, Vmax Regional ex, Rap Strike, Ursula Vmax, Goldingo EX and Welder Box. All these decks are pretty good, but they were, you know, a little short lived and weren't like absurdly dominant or anything like that. And then honestly, maybe Wilder box would be a little higher, but it's fine. And then we have Pika Ram in the next tier, the Great Ball tier. Then we got Mijumyu Arceus V Star, Lugia V Star. Then we have Lost Zone Box. We got ADP in that tier. Then the Elite tier moving into the top four we have or the Elite four because it's this Pokemon. We got Charizard EX and Dragapult ex, Dragalpole ex potentially could end up as the top deck at some point, but not right now. Then UV Max and G ex Indiegoat Tier, they are two really, really good decks Overall though, all these decks are very good. And if you haven't tried any of these stacks you could like even on what like I think PTG Sim has these stacks which you can find decklist for or on any simulator honestly. Or you can play them in like Live Expand or something or actually guess the Live Trainer trial. You can play some of these older decks. But yeah, overall I think these are, it's like interesting to take a look here and honestly this one I'D say a little better than I was expecting, other than the, like, technical difficulties, but other than that, these decks are really, I feel like, really solid with our list. Like, I feel like this represents the decks pretty well. And they, they were rankable as well. Yeah, I'm. I'm not sure we didn't get MU V Max too high, but that. That's my big question. But yeah, I. I also, I thought it was. Was good discussion. And it's a good variety of decks, which I'm pleased to see. I mean, no, not basically almost no single price decks. I. Half a single price deck. That's the sad part. But a lot of different types of decks here, which is, which is nice. That's part of the fun of Pokemon tcg. Yeah. Also I will say we had three decks that were on the fence in Ice Rider, Palkia and Chimpow. They all got cut. And they're also all water, which is kind of funny. But yeah, sorry for the fans of those decks, I suppose, which is you, right? Yeah, the decks I played. And sorry if you're a fan of grass decks, but you, you know the state of grass. Yeah. You got. You got a Richie Draco and you got a. You got Ridgy Bolt with Ogre Pine. Right? Yeah. And grass is okay right now, right? It's all right. Tamastagger Funny. Actually a good card, right? Yes, it is. But we hope you all enjoyed the episode here today. We went a little long, but there's a bunch of decks to talk about. We wanted to show them off to the rest of our abilities in the, you know, represent them in this. This episode here. But we hope you all enjoyed. Tell us if there are any decks we missed or anything you think we got like that we forgot to talk about within the decks as well. We hope you all enjoyed. Make sure you like and subscribe on YouTube on our channels Uncommon Fossil and 10 types. And also you can listen to us on podcasting platforms. If you do have comments, make sure to leave those on the regular video, but you can listen to us on podcasting platforms. We hope you all enjoyed. And as always, we're excited to see you in the next episode. Take care.