Another Heated Hobby Debate + Collectors Clash Over Hobby History

This is what everyone's talking about. Everything's on the table. This is what champions come to take. This is what everyone came to see. No do overs, no second chances. No more Mr. Nice Guy. This is winner take all. The NBA Finals continue on ABC and the ESPN app. No one goes to Hank's for his spreadsheets. They go for a darn good pizza. Lately though, the shop's been quiet. So Hank decides to bring back the $1 slice. He asks copilot in Microsoft Excel to look at his sales and costs and help him see if he can afford it. Copilot shows Hank where the money's going and which little extras make the dollar slice work. Now Hanks has a line out the door. Hank makes the pizza. Copilot handles the spreadsheets. Learn more@m365copilot.com Work. You survived the Miami weekend, nailed the speech and maxed out your credit card in the name of friendship. Now you've got one hangover, four pastel dresses and zero reasons to wear them again. Sell them on Depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest and you at least get some of your dignity back. Someone on Depop wants what you've got. Start selling now, Depop where taste recognizes taste. Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now Jeremy Lee in the building and every guest that you ever needed Sports cards after hours keep the hobby heated updates hobby talk like you never seen it Sports Cards live and I could ever beat it Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now. Welcome to another episode episode of Sports Cards Live with your host Jeremy Lee. What is up everybody? Welcome to episode number 315 of Sports Cards Live. It is Saturday night June 6th, 2025. My name is Jeremy Lee. I see Joe in the background guys tomorrow night there will not be fanatics weekly show taking this Sunday night off but we'll be back the Sunday night after. Guys few announcements sponsor and partnership shout outs I want to let you know Leighton Sheldon is always buying vintage collections. Reach out to him at leighton just collect.com he'll be joining us a little bit later this evening and auction Wire AI proud sponsor here of the show go to auction wire AI use promo code SCL for 60 a a 60 day free trial. That is 30 more days than you get if you are just on your own. Guys Mint Inc. Delivering the ultimate hobby experience with whatnot streams auctions Grading breaks 2 full retail stores in the greater Toronto area buying collections seven days a week. There's a link in the description below using promo code SCL5 for 5% off your first purchase. Shop online anytime with Worldwide Shipping Mint Inc. Where collecting comes to life and guys the front Row Card show is in Portland, Oregon June 13th and 14th with 480 tables and then they're off to Phoenix June 27th and 28th with 600 tables. Visit frontrowcard show.com for more show dates and locations. And Guys Grading is Expensive ties up your time, money and assets when it's even open. Get it right with Mr. Minty offering a full line of 100 substance free pre grading supplies. Great preparation, evaluation and concierge drop off and pick off services, pickup services at PSA and Beckett. All designed to help collectors save time and money in the expensive grading process. You can meet Mr. Person Mr. Minty in person at Fanatics Fest at the West Coast Card show and the national in the New Dealer section upstairs. For more information go to mrminty.com and you can save 25 off products using promo code SCL25. Happy collecting and keep it Minty and Guys Kronosio Kronosio has their Cards to Cash Hobby Store program. You can if you are a hobby store, you can give your customers an easy way to turn their card collections into cash while creating a new revenue stream for your store. Why should you join? You'll earn a 10% commission on every bundle sold. There's no inventory required. Kronosio ships directly to your customers. You can and you can help collectors with and Kronosa helps collectors scan, identify, organize and sell all their cards online using AI. There's two bundles. One is $250. That's the regular. The Pro bundle is $1500. Both bundles include everything collectors need to quickly inventory and sell their cards online. You promote cards to cash in your store. Your customer purchases a bundle Kronosio ships directly to the customer. You earn a commission. No inventory, no fulfillment, no risk. If you're interested in becoming a reseller partner for Kronosio, contact Jonathan@kronosio.com Kronosio here with the get my hands straight with a K Kronosio there with The K everybody CIA collector investor auctions June auction is now live running June 4th to the 14th. Visit collector investor auctions.com to register and bid in their upcoming auctions. 90s auctions ends tomorrow night. 90s auctions. You can check out the episode I did with Joshua Adams, who will also be joining us later tonight, but we did a 90s auctions video just this past week. If you want to sell cards on ebay and you want to skip the hassle and not do it yourself, message me on Instagram and I can help you get your cards listed on Slab Sharks. You can email me@jeremy slab sharks.com and guys, this episode is also brought to you by Upper Deck, the Sport Card Expo, Inferno Red Technologies, COMC and Card Ladder with a affiliate link in the video description below. And always a huge thank you to all of our loyal viewers and listeners. If you're not yet subscribed, take a moment and do so. And tonight your car, your, your comms and questions will be in play. So let's get to it and let's bring out Joe Perot. Joe Perot, what's up, buddy? Welcome. How are you? Live from Santa Cruz, it's Saturday night. I'm doing well. Jay Lee, Good to be on and always a pleasure. Hello to our illustrious chat and I just want to say last week was one of the, you know, I've been on a fair amount of times and last week was one of the most fun shows I think we've ever done. I don't exactly know why. Part of it was you, part of it was your, you know, on fuego moment with, you know, it's, you know, not you, you don't, you don't own the hobby. The hobby owns you. You know, there's, there's a way things. But anyway, I'm, I'm happy to be here and yeah, let's have a good show. Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. We got a great chat already. Welcome everybody who is here and we're going to say hello. Let me just turn on Instagram. There we go. Instagram is now on and yeah, so, okay, here's what, here's what's going to happen tonight. Right now. As you can tell, we've got myself and Joe Perot here on the screen. We are going to be bringing on shortly. Leighton Sheldon's going to join us at the half hour mark and then at the one hour mark we're going to bring on Chris lock. He's a 20 year old industry veteran. It's going to be a lot of fun. We're going to learn some things from the younger generation. We're going to swap out Joe for David Chase at the halfway mark. And then Chris McGill and Joshua Adams will join us to close out the third hour and overtime. But Joe, if you want to come back, you're welcome to, I know you want, after 90 minutes you might go, go do, go do the Joe Walk, whatever it is you're gonna do. You're welcome to join us back here later on. I might. We've also we've heard back from the Jackie Robinson patch card guy. He sent another email to me both four or five days ago after listening to the first time we talked about him and his situation. And so we're going to save that for the third hour. We're going to bring that up at that point in time. But a couple of things I suppose I'll just jump into right now just to maybe call them some housekeeping items, whatever you want to call them. But I do want to as I mentioned, the shout outs 90s auctions here is ending tomorrow night, guys. There's like 84 lots. It's a pretty easy auction to run through. Yeah, 84 lots. And we did, I, I did the show with Josh and there's some amazing items. I've been on several, some Jaggers, some Jordans, some Gretzky, some Griffeys. It's a great auction. It ends tomorrow. So check that out. Rare Shacks right here, three grand. And also Collector Investor Auctions, another wonderful auction house that is a sponsor and partner here of the show. Their June auction just opened and I mean it's just a mix of so many awesome cards from so many different genres and eras and, and sports and non sports like it's pretty incredible the selection over Collector Investor Auction. So go check that one out as well. And then oh, I want to remind everybody about the, the Hangover which we we recorded episode three, put that out there this past week. If you haven't seen seen that it is sports cards live content, guys. But it's not available on the channel here. It's on the Sports Card Clubhouse. If you are not yet subscribed to the Sports Card Clubhouse, please go do that. Not only will you find the Hangover, which is you know, the sports cards live content, but you will also find content from many other creators. Great stuff over there. So go check that out as well. And from the Hangover last week we talked about, you know what it we talked about the pros and cons, people's preferences when it comes to card companies cutting up historical artifacts, jerseys, bats, these sorts of things to put them into cards. And there was one comment that came from a, a hobbyist, a community member who I've been aware of and met in person at the National a few times. Ryan McClanahan left it, left a great comment there. And I want to bring that up. We'll do that shortly and sort of dig into that as one of the topics here for tonight. Joe, we'll get into that. And, and then another pretty cool thing is that the national has dropped their interactive floor map for the show, for the, for this summer show. I mean, it's two months away, almost two months away now. I, I mean, I think it's, I don't know if it's going to change or not, but it's up there. It's live for people to see. So I've got that shared. I'll show you guys what that looks like. But before we get into any of that, Joe, let's go to the chat. Let's say hello, Join me with that. Chris C. Right out of the gate talks about the Jackie and says, I love that Jackie patch card, but if you give me a hundred thousand dollars, I'm buying both the 49 Bowman and the Leaf, plus his 52 tops. Just saying. Yeah. I mean, hey. And you know what's funny about this comment? Not about this comment, but it's, it's funny that that the collector who bought that card, in justifying it, you know, to himself and even talking to me about it, was talking about what he would do with the $1.3 million that was spent on, that's been spent on other cards and how much Wemby cards are selling for. It's like instead of spending a million bucks on a Wemby, I'll spend 100 grand on this, Jackie. And you know, it's like we can all, we can all make these comments for sure. What's up, Stooks? He says, I'm like Steve Miller on that card. Go on, take the money and run. No. And then he sings it out at a voice. Dukes. Very nice. Hello, Bill Betts. Laura, Good evening to you. Oh, Mitch Marner with a hat trick. You know, he got traded from the Toronto Maple Leafs to the Vegas Golden Knights. And the Toronto Maple Leafs fans like to think that he doesn't have much to do with Vegas's success in the Stanley cup finals or playoffs this year. But he's got a lot to do with it. Absolutely. Confluence. Good evening to you. Yeah. After Vegas having two goals disallowed all early in the second period, they go on to score three more. There were three nothing, last I saw. Good evening, Jayhawker. Larry Gitlin. Good evening to you. Double O's card guy, Jesse Go Canes, Michael Raider, Good evening to you on Card Live. It's Saturday night. What's up? Yankees fan. Good to see you. Sports card reverie is back. Welcome, Orlando. What's up, my friend? Hodges. Thank you very much, Charles. Welcome, welcome, Mookie. I've been waiting all day for this. Attaboy, Mookie. We are here. David Cooey. Good evening from Muskegon, Michigan. Vintage says no card show for me today. Big comic swap here. Swap here in okc. Great show in Tulsa. Good, dear. What's up, Skeppy? I'm wearing Kronosio shirt tonight. I had my one on one enablement session with with Kronosio this week. I'll tell you guys about that another time. Rob Star. What's going on? Stack five, good evening to you. Outlaws is here. E105. Hey, that's Danny Meringuelo. Mickey Minto in the house. That's an Instagram account. Mickey Mintle. Check it out. Welcome, Danny. Pre War dreams. Good evening. Double V is here. Mike, what's happening? Tony is here. What's going on? D? The curmudgeon. Everybody's here, guys. Oh, lots. There's foul ball. He's here, he's here, he's here. Full identity and all. What's up? Foul ball. Jacob Doll. Mookie, Joe back in the leadoff spot. He always gets on base. That's right, he does. Surf City, here we come. Illustrious. I'll take it. Chad Shipper. What's going on, buddy? Good to see you. Hello, Mark. Confluence says. I guess David Chase's check didn't clear for the leadoff spot. Nope, we got David Chase. He's sitting. He's sitting on the bench right now. He'll be with us later. What's up? Josh from 90s Auctions. MG, Mr. Manos. Yeah, MG, he says, what's up? You know, had a good day. Took my kids to the thing called Heritage park here in Calgary today. It's a great place with rides and all that. It was. We had a great day. Joe, how about you? MG's asking what's up. Yeah, there was a big south swell it hit. So I was out there about 7:30, just surfing a little bit. And then I went on a little hike in the Santa Cruz Mountains and then popped by the New Leaf and got some. Got some grub. Nice. If you're watching on Instagram. Come over to YouTube, guys. That's where the action's at. What's up, Shaheen? Welcome, welcome. Found Treasures is here. E105 says the Hangover this week was awesome. Glad you liked it. We're having Fun with that show. It's crazy how there's just always something to talk about. So appreciate that very much. Peeps, good evening to you. There's Jeff Hart, Patriot Sports Cards. Good to see you, buddy. Mickey Mintle has entered the chat. Hate to disappoint, but I'm going. Car or house, says Mark. Instead of a card. Maybe Nick chen. Hey, there's Mr. Mike Petty from Petty Central. What's up, Mr. Pet Sc. What is up, Peeps? Wax packs. Marner's killing it. Yes. Yes. Okay. Oh, man, you guys are on fire. What? You guys just don't want this the show to start. You're just gonna pepper us with comments. We're not gonna get to a start here. What day is it? Saturday. Recovering from a detached retina surgeon. Well, bw, good luck to you with that, Mike. Good. Good evening to you. Found treasure, Steamer Lane. Bw. I was living in SC when New Leaf first opened. Oh, there you go. Very cool. All right, all right, Got to the bottom of the comments. All right, Joe, first of all, NBA Finals are happening. You know, at the end of the last. The conference finals when Wemby and the San Antonio spurs advanced to the finals, it seemed like the hobby was blowing up. Wemby. IG in Twitter blowing up about Weny. Now, you know, they're. They had leads in both games. Blew the lead in game one, blew an earlier lead, I believe in game two. Lose by only one point, which made. Which. Which makes you think one more free throw made, one more field goal made, one more three pointer made. It's a different result. Even though that could have changed the course of the, of the game, the strategy in the last couple of minutes when it's all about fouls and timeouts and all that. So you don't know one basket or free throw would have made a difference. However, one point doesn't matter if it's one point or 20 points. Spurs are down two nothing. Knicks are up to nothing. New York fans are going crazy. What is your. What's your pulse on the situation over there in the NBA Finals right now? Well, I'm, I'm very excited for all New York Knicks fans everywhere. You know, the mecca of basketball, New York City. Understandably, they're enjoying this fully. I. I'm not completely surprised. I think, you know, it was a slug fest to get by okc. And then it comes down to matchups. You know, the NBA is about matchups, and the Knicks match up well against, against the Spurs. They're. They're grown men. They're mature basketball players. And I would say that, you know, it's. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when. That's where I'm at with this series. So we're two nothing now. Do you think that the spurs have a chance? Do you think they can get the next two games? Do you think, like. I mean, I think they could push it to six maybe, you know, get. Steal one in New York, win game five, and then, you know, they go back to New York. But I don't. I don't think. I don't see New York losing more than one game on their home court at this point. Yeah, to steal two on the road is crazy in the. In the championship finals. Like, that would be tough, but, yeah, it's super exciting, you know, and. And to be fair to Wimby, I mean, he's only 22 years old. I know there's been a lot of excitement around his, you know, early success. Most of us thought, you know, he'd be two or three years away from. From reaching an NBA final. So the hobby, you know, in its interesting ways, gets. Gets crazy, goes crazy with wimy cards. I don't think it's. This isn't disaster, you know, to. To lose to a team that's won 13 in a row. Playoff games. I believe, like, the Knicks are on fire. So there's no. There's no. This isn't. This shouldn't be an elevator shaft for. For wimy collectors. Now, if you were just looking to flip to make a quick buck, then, yeah, you might be left holding a little bit of a bag. Yeah, interesting to see, but, you know, anything can happen in the next game and the one after that. What's up, Fresh Prince? Confluence wants to know what my basketball skill skills were. He's totally picturing me with a headband. I. I would need a headband to keep that sweat from dripping down this bald dome of mine into the eyes. But, yeah, it was never a great basketball player. But I can shoot. I'll tell you that. I can shoot. I went 8, 8 for 8 for 10 from the free throw line just the other day. Actually, last weekend, I think it was so in the gym here at the community center. So I'm not terrible, but I was never a great basketball player. But, hey, I'm glad you wondered. Thanks for asking. Mark's picturing Caruso. Mookie is walking through New York City right now. Knicks fans still climbing lamp posts. Bystander says it's over. He thinks the series is Done. Charles, though, says spurs win four straight like Giannis in 2021. Mark says it's just going to get worse. Fresh Prince says Wemby has to lose in the finals to become great. He needs that fuel. And they're still a young team. Reminding the 95 magic. I agree. I think losing early in their career in the final, I think, like, didn't. I don't know if MJ lost in the finals or lost on his way to the finals early. I know that the Edmonton oilers in the 80s, they lost to the New York Islanders, I think twice in the finals and then went on to win three in a row. So, you know, you kind of forget those losing ones and usually you remember the wins. Petty says Magic choked early, too. Just like V Stiff finish. Oddball says Flippers are in Wemby panic mode. Oh, are they ever. Right now they sure are. Because they can they afford to wait till next year to see what happens? Who knows? Who knows? They may have rent to pay. They may need to liquidate some of that right there. Mark says they are all going to lose it if we win it. I'm sure. Minimum price for a ticket for Monday's NBA game is three. Sorry, is five figures, says Stoops. That's gonna be. Yeah, that's gonna be a show. I'm. I'm looking forward to seeing Madison Square Garden and the stars out. It's gonna be crazy. Jim says the spurs are more physically talented, the Knicks are more mentally talented. Growing pains, all right. For sure. Zach says, makes me wonder if OKC would do any better versus New York. Everyone assumed the winner of the west was the champ. Yeah, they sure did. Petty says when Magic threw his airball on a drive to the lane, he started shooting from outside and got better every year. Maybe V Stiff will learn the hook shot. He needs it bad. All right. Will we see Mookie courtside with Spike Lee says Confluence Stu says MJ never lost in the Finals. It's the Knicks year, says Yankees fan Mickey Mintle. Says if the Knicks win the title, the NBA has officially been completed. Please remove cartridge and power off pick up pickup game at the national, says Fresh Prince. Those have happened before. There's been a few of those over the years. True character building for Wemby and the spurs, says Mark. Zach Pierce says MJ lost in the Finals in 89 and 90 before his first title. I think, yeah, that builds character. It builds the desire to win as well, I think. All right. And hockey's going on. We'll see where that Goes. It's one one. And Vegas is up for nothing, I believe, right now in game three as we speak. All right, Joe, let's get into this topic. We're gonna have Leighton joining us in about 10 minutes, so let's, let's make our way through this topic about cutting up jerseys that we touched on. We didn't touch on it. We talked about it at, at length on the Hangover earlier this week. So I'm just gonna share with you guys. What we're talking about is this episode right here of the Hangover. You can see we had four of the sports cards live, regular crew, Josh, David, Joe and myself. Just, just Chris McGill didn't make it. But I want to scroll down to a comment that came in here. It's this one. I thought I knew where it was, where to go. Here we are. Ryan McClanahan. I'm going to read this comment and then we'll talk about it. Ryan mc, by the way, a great collector, somebody who I've met in person at the National a couple times. He's been to the YouTube get togethers. So here's what he says. I'm vehemently against putting vintage jerseys into cards. I think a lot of people feel that way. He says there are jerseys that are still being found that we had no idea about. Many Negro league jerseys are still unaccounted for, and I can assume many hockey, football and basketball jerseys as well. Okay, let's stop right there for a moment. And I think he's right there. I think there are still jerseys out there that may be found one day sitting in, who knows, great grandchildren's collections or grandchildren's collections that just are sitting on them. I think also that a lot of them that are, that are, that do exist are in museums and private collections already. So some got caught up. Not all. There are still lots in collections right now. Let's just keep going, he says. And to a greater point, I don't think anyone has made here on the show that we did on the Hangover, he says, is that our sports are often tied to our national cultural identity. And I think that's more true now than ever. Right. With sports really permeating into the, just the popular culture in North America. So I think he's right. I think he's bang on with that comment right there. He says, take that away being, you know, the national cultural identity and what do you have? And I think that's, that's a good thing to, to comment on. I think he's right. What do you have. And I mean, listen, sports aren't the only part of national cultural identity. They're one. One part of it. But they're not everything to do with natural national culture identity. But they're certainly a big part, and they're only becoming bigger, I believe, as you define and sort of just review what that is, what those, what the, the cultural identity is. And then he says, and this won't be a popular take, but I don't think younger collectors today actually care about the players of the past. And I think he's. I think he's right to an extent. I think there are younger collectors who do. We're going to see one come on the show in about 35 minutes. Who cares about older players? We've got a lot. There are a lot of young collectors who are collecting older players, but there's way more young collectors who are collecting modern players. That, that is for sure. So I read this comment and I came away with this weird feeling of tension. I couldn't quite nail it. And then I realized where I, where I had the tension in, in the, in the comment, in Ryan's comment here. And that tension comes from two parts of the, of the comment that I don't know how they mesh. And I'm trying to reconcile it. And that's why I want to bring it up and see what, what Joe, what you think and what you guys in the chat think. So on the one hand, what we are saying here, because I agree with, like, everything he's saying, on the one hand, what he's saying here is that, you know, we need to preserve these artifacts to preserve our national cultural identity. But then he's also saying, I don't think collectors today, young collectors today actually care about the players of the past. So then I think to myself, if the younger generation today doesn't care about players of the past, then why, what are we preserving these things for? Why are we preserving these. These jerseys and balls and bats and all these things? I mean, there's already a lot in the hall of Fames. There's already a lot of stuff in, in museums. So how much more is going to get ripped up? I, I don't know. But who are we preserving it for if they don't care anyway? And then I think to myself, well, there's so many people alive today and collecting that do care about those players. Why not give those people the ability to own a small piece of that player's career and their time in the, in the big leagues, that sort of thing? And Listen, I'm just bringing this up. I'm just raising the points here and I also think that, you know, what's done is done. I'm collecting these cards, Joe. I've, I've been buying patch cards, memorabilia, cards of, of old, vintage, retired, all time greats because I want to own a piece of it. That said, I don't necessarily want them to cut up more. So I'm not saying let's cut up everything that's out there and already preserved. I'm just talking about the concept here. You know, I like, I like what I have. I'm good, I'm good with what's out there. But I'm trying to reconcile those two competing comments in the. That Ryan makes here. Again, what are we preserving it for if the p. If the future generations aren't going to care about those older players now? I don't think that's true. I think that they do care. I think future generations are always going to care about history, especially the all time greats. The all, the all time est of greats. I think that, that you know, that pool of players is going to get smaller as the generations go by as to who needs to, who is truly going to be remembered. So I'm going to leave all that where it is. I'm going to go to you, Joe, for your, your, your comments on this. Well, let me start by saying maybe it's a way to get them to care. I mean if you, if you create cool cards. But like I'll, I'll leave that there for a second. You know, he mentioned that nobody mentioned that it's connected to our culture, our culture identity. I guess I assumed that the fact that most of us on the hangover were sort of saying, yeah, we, we'd sort of have a problem with like chopping them to pieces, you know, like here and there, the ones that aren't in museums. But I think all of us were in agreement that they're, they're incredibly valuable and not just as a collectible but like as something that represents history and culture and important moments in, you know, the progression, evolution of sports. So that said, I kind of, you know, I liked the moment when, when Josh, you know, talked about the Mona Lisa. The fact of the matter is I don't think there's going to be too many more pulled out and if there were, the bottom line is the threshold for deciding whether or not these things are going to get, you know, commodified in some way by being chopped up and, or integrated into some Sort of, you know, upper deck or Donruss set is, you know, the cash, the cash cow, the crass commerce as, as I said on the show. And I think more and more anything that was found suddenly would probably fetch so much, you know, of an auction price that there wouldn't be any fear of, of, you know, worrying about, you know, upper deck, like slicing it up. It would probably go either to a museum or to someone's collection. I could be wrong about that. And I don't know. Actually, this is a question for the chat. What is emerging right now in the realm of vintage memorabilia? What, what sets and, or you know, companies are, are producing that or still doing that? I know they have, you know, they all, all these, all these card companies have uniforms, backstock, they have buyers. They have, you know, people that go out and hunt for, for good men. But I, I myself am not aware of what the most recent ones. I know there's Tops to Butte, there's a lot of new stuff coming out. I don't know if there's a steady drip of high end vintage mem that's emerging right now. So maybe the chat can help us out with that. You know, one of the things I, I think you were mentioning there that kind of tipped me off is just the, the values. You know, if a major Jersey comes to public auction and I guess there's a question, the question might be should a Jersey even go to public auction? If we, if we are going to sit here, me, you in the chat and we're going to say they should not be cut up, they should be preserved and put into museums. Well, should they even be put up at auction? Because as soon as they're put up for auction, they become, they become financial instruments. They're no longer really a historical, they are also a historical item that people want preserved. But they all, they become an asset. They become nothing more than the current owner's ability to raise funds for whatever reason they want to do so. So now it go. Now the, the, the very valuable item goes to auction. Two things are going to happen. Either a collector is going to buy it and hold on to it in its form and, and not cut it up. They're going to put it in a, they're going to either put it in a safe or they're going to display it in their house for them and their friends to enjoy or a cart. And there might be other options, but these are the two we can think of or a card company is going to come, come along. They're going to Buy it and they're going to chop it up and issue it in cards so they can sell products. They can sell more products and charge more money for them and the secondary market will likely eat it up. So where's the problem here? I mean, where's the, is the pro like, if these things are worth so much money, should they even be put up at auction? Because as soon as, if you own a jersey and you put it up for auction, you are risking that it's gonna get chopped up. You are risking that a museum or the hall of Fame is, is not going to come along and buy it. And aren't these items too expensive for the hall of Fame now? Are they going to go spend $5 million on a babe Ruth jersey or what, or whatever the amount is for whoever it is? I don't know. Or will a private collector outbid them and just hold it and then maybe sell it to a card company? Or will a card company come and buy it because they see the roi? Well, I mean, how many damn cases of cards would you have to sell to make a product that would get your return on a five million dollar jersey? I mean, that's, that's where my incredulity about this emerges. Like, I think 10, 20, 30 years ago, jerseys were actually, I don't know this for sure, but I, I think quite a bit lower in, in values. And then that market really started to spike. So in some ways that's why I love your play of going back and grabbing some of these vintage jerseys, because I think they've, they've progressed and amplified along with the jersey prices that, that they came from originally. And so in some ways it's not just the card and the issue, but the jerseys itself have become more valuable. Absolutely. For sure. For sure. And it's, it's an interesting place we're in because back in the early 2000s, when upper deck acquired Lou Gehrig and Satchel Paige and Babe Ruth and Donruss Playoff and Tops acquired all these, all of these memorabilia pieces, and they did chop them up. They weren't nearly as expensive then as they are now. And for that reason, I don't know that they're going to do it anymore. So then I think these things are going to most often end up in private collections, not often to be seen by anybody until those collectors die and then their kids, their, their beneficiaries sell it. No, and that's that, that last point you made there, like a lot of times, you know, if it's not in a Museum. We're probably not seeing it, you know, unless someone brings it to a national and puts it on display. You know, you have certain collectors who will bring their green PMG collection and, and show it, but you know, lugging along a, a Jackie Robinson, you know, pre major league debut jersey, that's, That's a risky proposition. You probably, either that's already in a museum or the private collector that owns that is not bringing that out in public. And, you know, you'll be lucky to see it. All right, let's go to some comments because there's lots. And then we'll bring Leighton on. So Rock Latex here says Donrus paid $264,000 for the 1925 Babe Ruth pinstripes jersey. Back in 2003. It was cut into 2100 pieces. Okay, really interesting right there. Thank you. Rock Latex. Jim Scholl says Jay Lee recently talked to a teenage dealer at a show. He is working on a play around of all pitchers who have pitched a perfect game. Very cool. I agree. That is very cool. Mickey Mintle here said collectors who believe a jersey should be preserved have the same option as environmental activists. Buy it and protect it. That's. That's an interesting point. You don't want them chopped up. Buy it and protect it. Chances are you can't afford it. Many of us can't. Jeff McMahon, welcome to the show. Good to see you. Charles says what about cutting up of documents signed by legends? Wouldn't the document be more collectible than the card it's placed inside of? It depends if you. I don't collect documents. I collect cards. So not to me, Charles, but to many people, I'm sure. Yankees fan says since I can't buy Joe's hat, maybe cut it up and make sports cards live hats. He's not willing to do that. Tony says golden is selling a very important copy, the Declaration of Independence. Let's buy it, cut it up and make 250American, 250th anniversary American sets. I personally don't like cutting up historical items. Skeppy says, think of it like this. Imagine a crowd of people, all sports fans. You throw a game used Jackie Robinson item into the crowd. What would happen to it? Do you think they would collectively preserve it? I don't know. That's an interesting way to look at it. Fresh princess. Older players will always be relevant because half these records will never be broken. So their names will forever be mentioned. Yeah, I suppose, I suppose. Michael Raider says if the item is something unique and rare, Then it shouldn't be destroyed into pieces. I mean, I get it, but, but why, why shouldn't it be? To preserve the history, right? To preserve the and again, guys, I don't really care. Like I, I, I'm not taking a position on this. I just want to talk about it. Greg is late, but here. What's up, buddy? Zach Pierce says, I believe as you mature as a collector, you start getting into vintage. Some kids today chasing judge no Tani will want mantles. I think, I think he's right in many cases. Fresh Prince said, I'd rather see a jersey intact in a museum rather than a piece cut up in a card. Yeah, that means you got to get to the museum. But I, I hear you. It's way cooler in its completion in its complete state. And Orlando said, I agree with Jim. I think yeah, kids today don't know or care about history, but once they learn it, they'll care. Yeah, I think so. Mr. Manos agrees. Preserve what we can. Jim define says I think younger people would care if they were taught the history of sports. Ken Burns baseball documentary should be required viewing for young baseball fans to spark interest and appreciation. Mickey Minto said, not every game used jersey belongs in a museum. I think that goes without saying. I think we're talking about really the the greats. Mookie says, support your local museum, please. Peeps wax. I certainly ended up caring about players of the past. Same here. Stuke says be it best to keep the items in collections. Most museums get an overabundance of donations. What, what, what do they do? They sell the extra items out the back door. Some go to people that don't care. Give them to kids and kids destroy them. Lots of comments here guys on this. Ding corners welcome for the game but what's going on? And Orlando says Ryan McClanahan is a great guy. He is again met him in person several times. The guy who wrote the the comment. But listen, this is certainly in no way picking on Ryan. I hope that that is definitely obvious. Just using that as a discussion point to hammer out again. What like are are we preserving history for a future that won't care? I don't think so. I think the future will care. I really do. I care about players I never saw play. I care about those items. I don't collect the the mem, but the cards. I care about that. And I think that that would transpose to to jerseys and other memorabilia as well. Okay, Leighton, you get to join. Leighton is good to join Everybody. Please welcome Mr. Leighton Sheldon back To the show. How are you, my friend? Excellent. How are you gel? It's good to see you. Oh, good to see you too, Leighton. I'm doing well, thank you. Okay, thanks everybody for joining us tonight. We'll see you all again back here again next week. I kid I kidding you. Leighton, what do you think about. What do you think about the discussion we've been having here for the last five, ten minutes as you've been waiting to join us? I mean, in my heart, I'd prefer they didn't cut up history, you know, the same way that my son just went to Philly on a class trip in fifth grade and they went to go see the Liberty Bell and all sorts of stuff, and if you said to me they were going to be, you know, hacking that stuff up in a memorabilia and future generations won't be able to see that, I wouldn't love that. You know, as far as though, if it's already been done, I'm not so like, anti against it that I wouldn't buy a piece of it. So in other words, I do have a roof flannel jersey card. I have a Jackie Robinson card with a piece of a jersey because I just think it's cool I didn't hack it up and I wouldn't have if they asked me, but since it was already done, I took advantage. Same with me, Leighton. You know, even at the Toronto Expo last month, I bought two Jackie Robinson fabrics of the game, game use memorabilia, cards, and I think it's super cool. So it's already been done. It's there. I didn't hack it up. I had no, I had no say in the matter. But I bought them because they're. It's done. What's done is done. And I wanted to own a piece of that. I feel like that brings me closer to the game, closer to the athlete, to the sport, and I just think it's really cool. But yeah, I don't. I don't want to see this stuff cut up any anymore. But the other thing is, though, is like, okay, so a collector buys it, puts in their collection. What good is that to, to, to, to society and to culture? The fact that they're sitting there, only being seen by that collector in his home and the people that he invites over to his cocktail parties and his family and friends, like, what is the benefit of that to society? To lock them up in one person's private collection? Is that any better than. Than the alternative? Which is. Well, and again, we're saying not in a museum, a collector. Because as soon as these things go to auction, like if you don't want these things cut up and put into jerseys, shouldn't you also not want them ending up in personal collections? Because you're hiding them from, from, from the population, at least until that guy dies. And maybe, maybe in his estate and his will, he says, okay, donate these to the museum. I think someone made the comment that that'll, that's usually what happens. I don't know about that. Not when these things are now worth what they're worth. You know, maybe 25 years ago and they were worth under six figures. Now they're eight figures. I don't know if that's the case anymore. So, Len, what do you think about that angle? Interesting. You know, things and times have changed. They'll continue to evolve. But make no mistake, I'd like to preserve history where possible. And if you have the means to be able to take a substantial piece of history, like a Jackie Robinson final jersey, and own it for a bit, I would say you probably worked really hard to be able to do that. And I don't think it's up to me or society to decide if you're able to take your hard earned money and buy it. But I would say I was just at Cooperstown recently and there's a lot of philanthropy that keeps that place going. So you and I agree, Jeremy, that I don't know that as many artifacts, or let's say donated as there used to be. That being said, the contracts that some of these players are getting today are not what it used to be. So what I'm saying is there's a constant flow to at least the Baseball hall of Fame. I can't speak for the others, but I was just there again for the second year in a row and, you know, at least have a little insight in terms of the donors and what's happening. And I got the Fergie Jenkins this year and last year, Raleigh Fingers and those gentlemen know that some of the artifacts that they've had in the past are worth a lot, but they're also very cognizant of their hall of Fame ring and other things they still have are also worth a lot. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but as far as someone's ability to own something, I think that they should have a right if they like to. But I also think that there's a good chance that as I think one of the two of you alluded to, or maybe one of the commenters watching the show that it could end up in that respective hall of Fame at some point. It might be generations or decades, but I do think it's going to find a good home at some point. At the end of the day. Joe, any. Any further thoughts? Well, I mean, I guess the whole conversation comes down to, like, short of you having enough money to buy one of these things, which, you know, now they're in the millions of dollars, it's kind of like the idea of stewardship. Right? Like that, that, that we, as a hobby, sort of make a statement that we value keeping these really treasured and prized jerseys together. And I think that's partly what we're doing right now is we're acknowledging that, you know, we don't want to chop everything up. But by the same token, you, you can't have it both ways. The, the. The hobby is commodified. The hobby does now involve money. And you can say, I don't involve myself in that, but most everybody else does. And these auction houses and somebody finding something in an attic or a basement and bringing it, it's like, are they gonna, out of the goodness of their heart, donate it to the Smithsonian? They might, but more often than not, people are going to take the million dollars. Right? Like, oh, my God, it's a lottery ticket. So I think we have to acknowledge that we can't have it both ways. We can't sort of have our collections and the valuations that we put on collectibles of any type, whether it's a jersey or, you know, a Honus Wagner T206, and say, like, those should be somehow preserved while at the same time not acknowledge that, you know, people are willing to pay a ton of money for those. And for that reason, they're. They're in a somewhat of a maelstrom of capitalism. That's where we are right now. Right. That. That is exactly how the world works right now. So a couple comments. First of all, hello to Ken Fickle. Alex Bridge for says, people don't want to buy the jersey. They want a card. Many people want cards. I fit into that category. But a lot of people, Alex, want memorabilia too, not me, but a lot of people do. MG Says only way most of us can afford a piece of these jerseys is hacked up. Absolutely. Alex says, where are you going to see it? One person with a jersey in their attic collecting dust. Yeah, I mean, in many cases, MG Says, only way. Most. Oh, that's the same comment twice. Situational. What's going on? Hobbies Good. Always good. Stuk says when A baseball park is obsolete. They tear it down. And people grab pieces, bricks, seats and signs from that stadium. That's why I just got up out of my seat, guys, because I went to grab this right here. This is an actual piece of brick from the old barn in Winnipeg where I grew up going to see Winnipeg jets hockey games. And this is signed by three of the old original Jets. I have a letter of authenticity with it and it sits proudly on my shelf right there. For many years I've had it. So even I have a piece of one of those. So thank you. I think that was stoops for that comment. Tony here said, I think card companies have the right to do it, but it doesn't make it right to cut stuff up. They have, they certainly have the right. Just like I have the right to take any of my cards and, and trim it. If I wanted to trim my cards, I have the right to do it. I would never do it, of course, would never do it. But you have that right as the owner of these things. And yeah, card companies, I agree with Tony, very practical comment here. They have the right to do it. But he says it doesn't make it right to cut stuff up. At the end of the day, these things are pieces of clothing that somebody wore or a piece of wood in the shape of a bat. In the shape of a bat. Right and wrong. You know, I certainly understand the position that it doesn't make it right, but I can see the other side of it too, for people who are okay doing it. And Jim here says, I'm thankful Jeremy even showed us the Jackie Robinson buttonhole card, just to say I saw it. Thank you. My pleasure. My pleasure. Leighton, what did you go grab? So I have some memorabilia as well. I have a Dave Winfield game use bat, also doubles as a home security system. So it's pretty good. I mean, Dave Winfield is a pretty powerful guy. So Jeremy, you have a brick that also doubles as a weapon just in case. And I have my Dave Winfield battle. So we are like, we're like a gang now. We're like a posse, you know, like we, we need like Joe, what memorabilia wise, do you have that could be used as a weapon? Do you have like a game, used golf club? Because that'll be great. You know, I, I, I got rid of my golf clubs recently, so I don't have that. I do have an old bat, a dinner rock bat. My friend's dad was a major league player in the late 50s, early 60s, and so I came across some bats that he had. Had so. But not much. And I would just say when I was about 12 years old, I talked to Dave Winfield from the bleachers of the Oakland Alameda County Coliseum. And he was such a wonderful dude. I mean, he, he just started engaging me. I was like, hey, Dave, how's it going? He's like, oh, I'm doing pretty good. It's really sweet, man. And a tremendous athlete. So, yeah, Minnesota Golden Gophers, football, baseball, like three sport athlete, couple comments. And then, Leighton, we're going to get into one of the topics that you present. I'm gonna let you pick. I know you had a couple in mind. I'll let you pick which one you want to get into. But the David Chase says, good news for the hobby. If I become a billionaire, I'm gonna wear my Babe Ruth uniform to every card show so the hobby can enjoy it. What a charitable guy. Like what? He's a man. Incredible. Man of the people right there. Rock Latex, says Malstrom. I know, I know, Rock Latex. I had the same thought. Skeppy says the window of cutting up high profile jerseys has closed. The cost is far too high now to acquire and cut it up. The product cost would not be for the average collector. I think he's right. I hope he's right. Like, I don't want to see it happen anymore. So. But what's out there is out there. So. Yeah, I, I'm with you on that one, Skeppy. For sure. Okay, thanks for all the comments, everybody. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the sports cards live community. Don't forget to like subscribe and most of all, keep collecting more great content to come. Sports cards is a lifestyle.