BUSTED: Postal Worker Stealing Cards from PSA & eBay Shipments

A postal service supervisor arrested for stealing a card out of the mail that had gone through eBay and PSA. But this is just one of many arrests that have taken place recently for mail fraud. What does it mean for you? We'll debate next. Hello, sports card investors, and welcome to another episode of cards on the table from the arena club studio here inside card guards hq Teapot Scott. We got him. We got him, baby. We got him. Let's go. There's another one out there. Well, actually, first of all, we got her. Yeah, because she, she was the car thief. We're going to tell you about the car thief. And truthfully, we, we didn't do anything. We're, I mean, they're actually the, the, you know, the police got her, but we're celebrating the police getting her because mail fraud, male theft has been a nasty issue in the sports card world. A nasty, nasty, nasty issue. And we've talked about in previous shows over the last couple of years how there's more and more reports, it seems, you know, every month of collectors having high value cards stolen out of the mail. And this has been true for all types of shipments. U. S. Postal Service, FedEx, UPS cards vanished, missing. In this case, it was a collector in houston, Texas, who bought on ebay A Topps Chrome 2025 Topps Chrome Cooper flag autograph card. Beautiful topps chrome rookie auto of cooper flag. A dream card for many collectors. This one was graded psa authentic. They paid $3,618 for the card on ebay. Well, the ebay seller shipped the card. And of course, when you sell a card of that level through ebay, it goes through ebay's authenticity guarantee, which is handled by psa. So the ebay seller ships the card, it goes to psa's office where they certify the card as authentic, which they did. And then they repackage it in that special ebay packaging and then they ship it to Houston for the person who bought the card. Well, the person in houston who bought the card received the box in the mail. The ebay certified, you know, box just looked perfectly normal. Received the box in the mail. They're so excited. Here's their $3,600 Cooper Flag rookie card. And they bring it into their living room and they cut the box open. And they open it and the box is empty. The place where the card was supposed to be. There is nothing there. It is the ebay authenticity guarantee with nothing inside of it. It is empty. And the person inspected the package and realized that at some Point along the way, the package had been sliced, opened, and then resealed with additional tape added. So clearly somebody took the card. Well, wouldn't you know that this, this collector who's out this money, they were not gonna go down easy. So they started searching on ebay every day to see if that card popped up anywhere for sale. And wouldn't you know, wasn't long after that, that card got listed for sale on eBay. Same PSA cert number. So the same card, the same card appears for sale on ebay. So this collector immediately contacts the postal service and says, this happens, you know, police get involved in the case and an undercover officer goes onto ebay and reaches out to the person with the listing on ebay and says, hey, I'm local here, can we meet up and I'll pay you cash? And as opposed to doing the deal through ebay. And the seller of the card agrees and they agree to sell the card for, get this, $700. Which that, by the way, is a sign that the person had no, I, they don't know anything about cards. And clearly. Which, by the way, you know, we've had situations here at cards HQ where people have come in and tried to sell us stolen cards. One telltale sign for our buying team is when somebody walks in and they put some nice cards down. And the buying team will often ask, like, how much are you looking for? How much do you think these are worth? Or something like that. And when somebody puts, you know, $4,000 of cards down and they're like, I'm hoping to get 300 bucks, instant warning sign. That has happened before here. And that's kind of this exact same situation. You know, the lady was happy to accept $700 for a $3,600 car because she didn't know what she had and she just wanted to get some cash. Well, the, the police agreed to meet up with her to exchange the cash and cash in person. And of course, when she met up with them to exchange the card for the cash, she had handcuffs put on her. She was arrested and she turned out to be 44 year old Christie Smiley, who was a postal supervisor in the Baytown, Texas post office. She had worked there for more than eight years. So how long has this been going on for? Well, we will soon find out because the police confiscated her phone and they are now searching her phone for evidence of more thefts. We'll see. We don't know for sure. And of course, this is all. Yeah, allegedly she has been charged with this. In fact, she has been charged with felony theft. Yeah, so she's been charged with it. Not guilty yet. We'll see, you know, we'll see how this plays out. But I'm happy they seem to have made progress in this instance. They're taking these things more seriously between October 2024 and March 2025. So about a, about a six month period. Nationally, the USPS reports that they had 872 investigations into internal mail theft that they conducted and closed during that period which resulted in 254 arrests of post office workers. So, you know, and not, that's not necessarily all trading cards, that's other stuff as well. But clearly we got something going on across the nation where mail theft is a problem. This is one recent example of it. Teapot. As you hear stories like this, what do you do? Like what do you do? Because it's not realistic for us to stop buying cards and having them shipped. I mean I guess you could, but like buying cards online, it's part of the hobby. So what do you do? There's an easy solve. When this happens and people get convicted, you publicly lock them inside of a container where they have to listen to the Florida alma mater on repeat over and over and over again and do the gator chomp until they're yes. And just let you in their face, you know, and then nobody will ever do it again. The part that concerns me here is the packaging that those things come in back from PSA through the authenticity guarantee. That might as well have it written on it. I may valuable card steal me because it's always the same packaging. It's nice packaging. The package engineering is nice on it, except that the ones slide out of the semi ridges when they're not graded. But it's a target. When we've talked about theft in the past with postal service, we've talked about the need to basically make it look like it's not a card. If you're sending a $30 card in a bubble mailer, less risk there. Usually somebody's not going to take the risk to steal that necessarily. But my strategy when it comes to big expensive packages is a package inside of a package inside of a package inside of a bigger package. Send it in a big old dang box that doesn't look like a sports card. Add some weights in it, put an airtag, do all these things so that it's getting there and nobody's going to go ooh, yeah, this is a card. Plus like slicing it open and replacing, repairing the package is nearly Impossible in that regard. In addition to that, I like to send really expensive things through registered mail with the mail so that it's chain of custody, so that it's got higher insurance limits. It's got all the things, tamper proof tape, all that type of stuff. I don't know, what are you supposed to do about this now? The card theft, I guess would have then been on ebay or PSA or whoever eats that cost when something gets stolen. But it still stinks. It's just in general, like, it's a big problem. And so I don't know what are we expecting from PSA that they're going to start like anonymizing their things? It's also tough when you're just getting your graded card submission back and they try to make it. They don't like write PSA or collectors on the return label, but if you know what that return address is and you work for the post office and you know the type of packaging, you could look at those and also be like, oh, this is graded cards. Coming back from PSA or one of the grading companies. I'm going to like take this and move on. So I don't know, like there's strategies that you as a seller, if you're just sending things, can take that we've talked about many times in the past. But as far as this particular scenario. Yeah, I mean, I'm glad they caught them. Thankfully, a lot of these people who are stealing these cards are really ignorant when it comes to how cards work and how they can be traced down. And they didn't know how to crack the card out of the graded slab and anonymize it that way. So I, I don't see an end in sight to this at all. I don't really know. I don't know. I don't know what can be done. Your point about the ebay packaging is true. They optimized it. There's. It's small, like it's a small cardboard box, a very small box. They optimized it obviously to be, you know, be efficient in terms of shipping. They're small form factor, they open up nicely. But that also makes it more possible to steal. I remember the last time we did an episode about mail fraud, one of the suggestions that professionals had given was the larger the package size, the less likely fraud was to occur because a postal service worker, you know, you got to think about how are they going to. There's cameras everywhere. Can't carry it off, can't put it in there. Yeah, how are they going to cut into it, get the card out? Well, if it's small, it's, you know, behind their body. It's around the corner. It's when it's getting in and out of a truck. But they're dealing with a more cumbersome package or something that's double boxed. You mentioned box inside of a box. That's another kind of pro tip that's a lot harder for them to, like, oh, I got to open up this big box. Then I got to get inside. Then I got to open up the small box and take the stuff out. Then reseal it, then reseal. They don't want to mess with that, you know, so. But eBay and PSA are shipping out, I don't know, tens of thousands of these packages, hundreds of thousands of these packages every day. So they obviously go for size, efficiency, and all that. It's tough for them. I don't know. Scott, what. What do you think of this story? I don't think it's the last time we'll talk about this. I think we can six months talk about it, and it's one of those situations that's unfortunate. It's kind of all of our biggest nightmares. And yes, this card, he would have gotten refunded for it, which is great. But unfortunately, sometimes finding the card is worth more than the money. And having that card for your collection. This one was just a bass tops, chrome, so not a huge deal. But if it would have been like a really rare Billy Butler card I've been looking 10 years for, I'd be ticked. Even though the card's only worth two years. You'd rather have the Billy Butler than a Cooper flag Rookie Otto Scott, Depending on the Billy Butler, yeah, probably. Oh, boy. But with that being said, the longer I've been in this hobby, the less trust I have really in anything in anyone. And so you have to make sure you're taking the steps to protect yourself. This is not a sponsored video by this company, but I use a company called Collectibles Insurance Services, and they actually will provide you with shipping insurance, so you don't have to buy insurance through the company you're sending the card through. It's like if I wanted to go FedEx overnight to send a $50,000 card, I would just call my insurance company, and they would then, you know, charge me 20 bucks, and I'm covered there. And so that's a better way to go. You don't want to really disclose to the employee what it is. Just like, oh, it's like an item for my nephew and you can send it on. And so that's what I've always done and I haven't had any issues yet, knock on wood. But you got to be smart. The less you can disclose to people, the better. Because if it's just a random package, there's no incentive for them to steal it. So that's a big one. And that's what I've done to kind of protect myself. Nowadays we even have the reverse issue where goods and services, for me and Ty or you, if we wanted to buy something, we have the risk of not being refunded as well. So I think the biggest thing is just make sure you trust who you're dealing with both ways and take the steps. Yeah. And you're talking about PayPal, which, you know, if you use their goods and services. That used to be kind of a good protection method, but now they're excluding trading cards from goods and services refunds if something happens with the transaction. Yeah, there may be, hopefully over time there's some technology. I mentioned air tags. People put air tags in packages and that can help you track the package. But it would be great if these postal couriers, whether it's FedEx, UPS, somebody could probably like cement themselves to take a lot of business within this trading card industry space. If there was a tracking device that could go in the package that would actually like send an actual alert to parties or something if it went out of its intended route, they'd have to have an integration with that courier to know. Sometimes you see things really happen weird where like I can send a package out of Atlanta that's supposed to go to LA and then like for some reason it ends up in Minneapolis and then comes back to Atlanta and goes. And it goes to the wrong place. But something like that that could notify if it was part of like an insurance add on or something. I mean, it's worth it when you're talking about high end collectibles. Oh, do you want to purchase the usps, you know, certified tracking or whatever and have that as part of the. Part of the program? The tech's out there. Just take some implementation work. All right, be careful out there, everybody. Be careful out there. Let's, let's light in the mood a little bit. I want to talk about Giannis's card market here in a minute now that we got his trade in Miami. I also want to talk about the NBA draft and some Panini football sets. But let's rip a couple of packs. First light in the mood. That sounds good to me. Tipa, what are we doing today? I went Pokemon. I was looking at. We're doing Rubies. Ruby. Pokemon. These are 250 packs. Yeah, I like every time I look at it, you're getting a lot of the goats, as they say in. You got some Gengars. This really sick vintage Gengar from Neo Destiny. And the card that. What caught my eye that these have gone up a ton is the. The special art rare Japanese Gengar from the most recent set. Was that Ascended Heroes or whatever the. The version of that is on the Japanese side. Lots of other cool stuff. You get some vintage even in here. It doesn't really matter the price point on which pack. For Pokemon, I always see stuff that catches my eye. So I guess let's see what I got. All right, so this is an Arena Club Ruby Pokemon slab pack. Let's see what Teapot holds here. Squirtle. Nice. Okay. PSA 9. Squirtle. All right. Fan favorite. All right, let's see what this is worth. I don't think I made. Yeah, I got. I kind of got wrecked on that one. Yeah, not so good. Okay. So, you know, hey, cooked. We've had. We've had, you know, previous shows where you open up a card, it's worth double the price. This was not that I got that messy three weeks ago. And it's probably two. I don't feel bad for Ty. We have this competition going between us three where after 12 weeks whoever has the most wins in that 12 week period gets a thousand dollar pack, ties up two and you're one and I'm zero. All right, well, let's see. I'm hoping I can. Maybe this is your moment. Maybe this is your moment, Scott. What did you open, Ruby? I did baseball. Baseball. Here we go. I think you're going to be. That's got to be. That's got to be. Where are we at with this? You are indeed in the lead. All right. Honestly, Cheerio's been so good this last month. I bet if there was a recent comment, it's probably worth more than what they're offering. I would agree. I did football. What did I get? Ruby? Football. JJ. Okay, Ricky Hollow at a 10. That's a pretty good card. I think maybe Scott won where we were at with this. Yeah, that seems like a good buy. That does seem like it does buy for a PSA 10. Hollow. Gosh, those are tough grades. That's a good buy. That's a good. Okay, Scott, you have officially won two. One and one. Congratulations, Scott. But the real winner is you, because you can save 20% off your first purchase of an Arena Club slab pack with promo code SCI. All you need to do is go to arena club.com or download the Arena Club app and then enter promo code SCI at checkout for 20% off your first slap pack purchase on Arena Club. All right, before you go to Giannis. Yes. I have something for you. I meant to do this in the intro, but we were high fiving and everything. This is just a little memento. Nothing crazy, but we just had the virtual here, which was amazing. And we've been doing those now twice a year. A little memento. I want to see if you remember why this card is important. Pat Neshik was a guest on our first virtual. Pat Neshik. Was it the first or second one? And I saw this card. I remember, I thought that was cool. Back in the day, we had a few different athletes. That is awesome. Heritage gold to five. Just a little memento. But like the story. How did you get this? I saw it on ebay. I just smashed it. Thank you. I love that. And it didn't get stolen in the mail. SCI history. We gotta put it up here in the studio somewhere, put it on display. Little. Little memento. I like that chrome. Some of the coolest cards ever made. Thank you, sir. Yeah, he was a super nice guy on the. He was a great dude. That's all. Thank you, sir. Pretty. You're welcome. All right, I don't have a gift for each now. I'm sorry. What's my gift? Yeah, you can transfer your Arena Club over. Tell you what, the Miami Heat got a gift. Teapot. They got one of your favorite players in basketball. Giannis is now a member of the Miami Heat. And. But the Miami had. Miami Heat had to give up a law firm in return. They gave up, you know, they gave up Bobby or they gave up Tyler. Hero, course, big name there. They gave up a lot of. A lot of people. Draft picks, three number one draft, three first round draft picks, all kinds of stuff. Pick swap, second round pick. So my question for you, Teapot, there were a lot of collectors, yourself included, I believe, who had been buying some Giannis cards, anticipating that he was going to get traded this off season and that maybe he would land in a spot that was caught, would cause his cards to go up. Now that we know it's Miami, what do you think that means for Giannis? Market. So they narrowed it down the last couple of days and it was Boston or Miami and My hope is Giannis goes and wins at least one more championship. While I'm not a Celtics fan, I also am not, strictly speaking, a Bucs fan. But I've rooted for them over the years because Giannis has been my favorite player in the league, and when they won that championship, I was really excited, and I was excited for Bucs fans just because they didn't have won championships going to Miami. This one just confused me, like, they don't have anybody left. So Norman Powell is like a free agent or they have a chance to match offer or something. So you basically have bam, Giannis and Andrew Wiggins and then like, nobody else. So I don't know how they're going to fill out their roster. It doesn't look like a team that is going to be able to really compete in the east as much as I think Giannis is amazing. And I guess if Bamboo puts up 83 a night, maybe they're going to, you know, have a chance to compete. But just. It wasn't really what I wanted to see happen. I don't know. They have a history of managing the team well, so maybe they'll bring in some additional talent. But there has been a little hype. I invested, or speculated, I should say, on several of his cards, and I've sold them. I've sold them and made profit on them from when I bought them a few months ago after the trade deadline passed, and a few I bought before that. But I don't know if the hype's going to last. I don't know. Plus, last year he had the injury issues and they kind of shut him down. So when this guy plays, he's one of the three best players in the NBA. There's just no contesting that. And he's one. He's my favorite player from. From this generation. So we'll see what happens. But I'm not. I'm not ecstatic. I. For a minute there were rumors the Pistons were going to go after him, and I was like, I will watch the Pistons again if Giannis goes there. Then I was kind of thinking maybe the Thunder, with all their draft capital, would have made a move to bring him in, especially after getting beaten by Wemby. They didn't do that. So I don't know. I'm curious. Even Parker, who's a big Heat fan, is kind of like, I don't know if I like this. We just gave up our entire team for, like, a player. And that hasn't historically worked out well for other teams that have done it, in fact, I don't think it ever has. All right, so Scott Teapot, although he continues to remain high on Jan, is not necessarily high on him going to the Heat and what that can mean in the future. How about yourself? I think mortgaging your future for like one or two seasons of prime Giannis is a very dangerous thing if you don't have the ability to build around him. And so I would be concerned. And we talked about collectibility in the hobby and long term collectibility we generally see. And this is different in today's world than it used to be, where if you change teams, it's not as big of a deal, especially the NBA versus other sports. But it can and it will hurt his values if he goes to Miami and is awful. Like if the Heat don't win anything and they do a bad job. He already kind of probably burnt some Bucs fans. And even if you are a Bucks fan who still loves Giannis, it's one of those situations where even for me, when Nolan Arenado was traded to the Cardinals, I still loved Arenado, but I wasn't as attached. Not watching him every day, that's a real phenomenon that happens. And so it could hurt his collectability if he doesn't win a championship, if he doesn't win one in the next two years, I imagine it's actually going to not drastically hurt his card prices, but pretty significantly in the short term. And also there was some fallout with other players in this trade. The Celtics wanted to trade Jaylen Brown for him. So now Jaylen Brown's going to be upset with the Celtics and that could cause a rift there. But the whole situation, I just, I don't understand giving up so much for a couple years of a player. Maybe it's because basketball, one player can do so much. 32. Yeah. I mean, that's like he's, he's getting older. You know, he's still going to be good, but he might not be who he was. Yeah, no, no, I agree. They're paying for past Giannis, not current Yanis is my concern. I agree. I mean, you know, unless he's LeBron who just, just continues to play at a goat level into his 40s. Teapot, I mean, as you and I both agree on that, but probably, probably unlikely that he's as good as LeBron, probably will get swept like LeBron out of the playoffs. But. All right, well, let's, let's switch from talking about Giannis to the new young Bucks coming into the league because we had the NBA Draft earlier this week, gentlemen. No real surprises. You had the big names. You had A.J. and Peterson and Boozer and Caleb Wilson go in the top four. It kind of everything kind of went as expected. I was kind of hoping that Acuff would drop down to eight for the Hawks to get him. He went at seven to the Kings. We did get Kingston Flemings, who I'm excited about. Nice little, nice young player out of University of Houston. Had had like a 45 point game this season at one point for Houston. So he's exciting player to watch coming to Atlanta. But any impact here, Teapot on the card market. Did where these players go or anything like that change your thoughts about the collectibility of the new basketball sets that are going to be coming out this fall with these rookies in them? Well, last year we saw a really good draft class. After a few years in a row of not so good draft classes in the NBA, I think this one's going to be really good as well. This is very, it's not even top heavy like there was. There's some talent. I would expect some of the guys who were drafted in the teens or even into the 20s to wind up having some buzz about behind them at some point. That was kind of. The general consensus is like this is a, this is, there's some real talent in this draft. And if you look at the, the top guys, it was kind of an interesting situation with Utah sandwiched at two because they had the chance to get BYU into Utah, you know, with DebonSA, but they didn't get the number one pick. And then they had a chance to get Boozer, you know, whose dad played for the Jazz. But they, they went with who I actually think is the best player in the draft, Peterson with the most upside. That guy from a just pure scoring perspective, I think he's going to be a phenomenal talent in the NBA. I think the Jazz got a really a future star there, so we'll see what happens ultimately. But I think the sealed product is going to have a lot of buzz and a lot of high price tags behind it and a lot of different chases in it. This isn't just going to be like in the breaking situation, like everybody going for, you know, one specific team. There's a lot of teams that are going to have like high price tags on some of these. So I would expect similar buzz to what we saw this last year with several really high performing rookies. And we'll see how quickly some of these teams can turn it around. The Wizards just gave Trae Young, pretty crazy money. So we'll see if that works out for him for them with DebonSA and what they can do. Yeah, it's going to be fun to watch. What do you think, Scott? I'm hyped. I'm excited. I'm a Jazz fan and honestly with baseball probably in the lockout next year, I might be watching the Jazz for the first time in a while. They're going to have a pretty good roster with Peterson here. Ty kind of talked about it. Very high upside, which I like. But they have him, they have Ace bailey, Jaren Jackson Jr. Laurie Markkanen, Walker Kessler and then Keonti George who are all awesome. And it's like they could be a pretty solid playoff team after basically tanking. I know the NBA is changing some things basically because of the Jazz and the way they went about things. A couple other teams this year too that caused it. But I think it would have been great to have Devonza just because I'm from Idaho. So of course you want to root for the people who are at the colleges in that area. I went to Utah State University. We don't like BYU just because they're like our rival. They don't even know about us, but we don't like. You know what I'm saying is that kind of situation. We're a little brother for sure. But one of the situations where it had been great to keep him there just for like, you know, the idea of it and how it played out. But I think the Jazz ended up really well. I want DebonSA to do really well and I think he has all that potential in the world. And Boozer would have been great like Ty mentioned as a Jazz fan, because that's when I really loved the Jazz was watching his dad and Darren Williams back in the late 2000s. I even had Darren Williams basketball shoes in my 8th grade year for my basketball team. But it's going to be fun. I, I think this is a deep draft class. I think we're going to see between what we saw with Cooper Flag and Cone and then this year dynasty, all these high end sets, we're going to see some really, really crazy pricing like we've never seen before. We've seen some crazy pricing before, but it's going to be even worse than ever going to get those NBA debut patches of all these guys coming, you know, sometime next year. But man, that's going to be, that's going to be fun to watch the product that I think people should pay more attention to is Bowman basketball, which released a few months ago. We've got it here at Cards hq. And because it had all of these guys, first Bowman cards in it, all these guys, all these top five draft picks, all their first Bowman cards are in it, plus Cooper Flag, plus everybody else. Yeah, yeah, it's. And it's been surprising that product has not done as well in the market. Prices have dropped on that product considerably. It's not done as well in the market as I expected it to being the combination of all the first Bowman cards of these guys plus the rookies. You think Topps will switch their strategy? I don't know. The product has underperformed. Honestly, it's an underperforming product. This could be a product that ages well. I think it's going to be now that the draft has happened. Now we could have Jazz fans going for Peterson, you can have Washington fans going for Devonta. Like this really could be a product that ages well. Plus I think it's okay if it's not super expensive. It's okay if it drops because we want to have affordable good products and there's affordable okay products. But this is a good product. So I think it fits a really good niche right now. There you go. So they can print a lot of it, but it could be a, a good long term hold. I'm hyping our own products. They're on cards hq.com not ashamed about it. Go check. Go get Bowman basketball on cards hq.com all right, final topic today guys. Panini previews its upcoming unlicensed football card set. So Panini is, they're not slowing down. They're saying, you know what, we've lost our NFL license. We don't care. We're making the cards without the team logos. We talked about this, you know, recently we saw some of the designs of like the new color blasts without you know, the team logos for example. But now we've got previews of the new donors football which is coming out soon. The first unlicensed downtowns. We'll put what some of those look like up here on the screen so people can see what these unlicensed donors cards look like. And Panini said they're, they're not slowing down. They're coming out with Obsidian Absolute, which means you're still going to get your kabooms. Immaculate Prism Noir, Phoenix National Treasures Select, Flawless. It's all coming Teapot. All without the team logos. What do you think? I'm like so excited about this. I was yawning. I literally was Man, I loved Darren Sproules when he was in the NFL. He was electric, um, even when he absolutely cooked my Detroit Lions in the playoffs. One of the years. But, I mean, Darren Sprouls. Darren Sprols is like one of the. He's in one of the highlighted sticker auto athletes in their signature set here. I don't have a lot more to say about this topic, Jeff. I. If people want to collect it, if they think the cards are cool, if they like the idea of this, you know, downtown with the big house behind it for Bryce Underwood, more power to you. I won't be buying any of these. I. I enjoyed. I found one of those. What do they call them, like, collector packs of Donra Soccer at Costco and snagged one of them because they're more expensive on the secondary market. And we got a big Jude Bellingham oversized kaboom out of it and some cool stuff. I. It's not that I don't like Panini. I just. I. I'm. It's like, you're ready to move on. You're ready to move on. Clinging to the past here, and they're scratching and clawing to keep the money printer going. And I would just prefer to not have to see her talk about this big teapot. Just said, it's not you, it's me. It's them. It's not you, Panini, it's them. Oh, it is you. It is you, Panini. It's not me. Panini, it is you. Yeah. Is that where you're at, Scott? I am speaking of Darren Sprouls, I wanted to point this card out. Maybe we can show it, like, without logos. Like, who is this guy? This looks like this could be a stock image at Dick's Sporting Goods. Like, it doesn't look like anybody significant. Yeah. And it's that same with everybody. I think the cards that are going to do okay are the kabooms of the downtowns, obviously, because those are iconic heritage. But even without that, they're more of a cartoonish design. And so they can get away without the logos. But you just. Especially with football, it's even worse because the helmets are just so blank. It looks like a high school card. You know, with mlb, you can angle a hitter specific way. We're still recognizable. You can't do that with football. And even basketball, they just look like rec league. So I have a hard time with unlicensed. And this is, for me in this situation. I'm not blaming Panini here. I felt the exact same way about Topps Chrome products for basketball previously. But I will say as a baseball card collector, when they had Diamond Kings back in the late 2010s, those kabooms have serious value. Like Ohtani goes for 20Ks, 2019 Diamond Kings PSA 10. And so, like, those will still have value. Those will be worth the chase. But if you thought the floor was low before, that floor is through the floor right now. Because if you don't get one of the big cards, nothing is worth anything in this product to me. And so that's going to be an issue. And maybe it'll be priced appropriately and it'll be okay, but it should be a valid concern for anybody opening it and for Panini in general. You said there's. Yeah, I won't say anything. I didn't even know that was Calvin Johnson. I thought that was Steve Smith. It looks like a Carolina Panthers jersey. I can't tell. All right. Hopefully. Hopefully the boxes are cheap. Are we too negative boxes? How are you feeling about this? I mean, it's not my favorite stuff. I think. I think if the boxes are cheap, you know, it gives an option. Gives an inexpensive option. I think it's. I think the National Treasures and the Flawless will probably be pretty decent because the truth of the matter is, like Panini Baseball, National Treasures and Flawless are pretty decent products because they rely heavily on the patches, you know, and so, like, because they, you know, they have the team logo, so they over compensate with big patches and jersey swatches and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. So those are kind of fun products. And it's kind of neat to be able to open up a box of flawless, unlicensed baseball for like a fourth or actually like an eighth of the price of what you would probably pay if it was licensed. So, you know, it's for certain collectors, certain applications, but for the most part, I'm kind of with you. All right. I'm kind of with you for the most part. Okay. All right, guys, that is the show for today. What did you think? Let us know in the YouTube comments. And don't forget to get your Arena Club Slap Hack 20 off with promo code SCI at checkout. Thanks for watching. We'll see you soon in the next one. Take care, Sam.