Can a Big Card Cure Accumulation? + Collecting With Emotion + Hobby Spectrum Comes Full Circle

Hi, friends. It's Dan Wilber and Zach Sims, and we're the hosts of My New Thing, a comedy podcast about obsessions. It's a show where we talk to comedians about their niche hobbies and their pop culture fixations. Everything from graffiti to 70s cinema and really anything in between. It's called My New Thing. Get it wherever you get your podcasts. Michael Jordan Sports cards is a lifesty Sports cards and we live now Jeremy Lee in the building and every guess that you ever needed Sports cards after hours keep the hobby heated Updates, homie talk like you never seen it Sports cards live and I could ever beat it Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now. Welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host, Jeremy Lee. Number three reads, value is contextual, not just numerical. The buyer asks, where does this fit into the artist or players larger body of work? Is it early? Is it iconic? Is it misunderstood? Historically important? Aesthetically superior? I mean, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Chris, this one is. This one is collecting for most people. I, I won't project. Yes, yes, for me. How about you? Yeah, I think so, but, but I don't. But it doesn't need to be for everybody. And I, and I think it's for me. I got to, I reached a point of really caring about where this fits into the broader universe of cards. Like, later in my collecting journey, I was just more kind of focused on standalone beauty and iconicness, iconicity, and I was focused on things like that more at the start. But now I've, I've drifted really strongly into caring about how a card relates to the, the full constellation of cards. So I, I, this obviously resonates with me a ton. We're three for three for me. On the art side, I'm definitely, like, so far, I'm, I'm heavily more of an art collector than a stock buyer. But I wonder, I wonder how everybody else takes this if. If others care as much about contextualness, too. All right, who wants to. Who has David or Josh? Go ahead. Yeah, I mean, I care about how a card fits in terms of other cards, either that set or that era of cards. Like, you know, some of the first baseball cards. You know, I love those because they're the first ever made in 18. 1897. Those are awesome first football cards or, you know, cards of rookies or players I like. So, yeah, I think the context matters significantly for me in collecting. All right, David Novak or Joe, Got anything to add? David, go ahead. I would like to add that, like, I want My. Like, I agree with everything on that bullet point especially, but I want my collection of like, Troy Aikman cards be like the explanation of like his card catalog. Just be like these. I could tell his story of his card catalog by gaining further cards that are. That go along with these other copies that I have that go with that era and. And just tell a story of the collection. Yeah, yeah. I mean, exact. I really like this one. Resonates completely with me. Although. Although, like, sometimes I don't consider the. The player's full catalog of cards. Sometimes I just hone in on one and that's it. And I'm good. And I don't really like the rest. Like it again, and it depends what I'm buying or how much I'm spending on the card to. In terms of how much I need to know about the player's whole catalog. But I think Chris Hoage gives the good advice on that, which is, you know, before you buy into a player. Again, I think. I think Chris. When you say. What Chris says is before you buy into a player, understand the menu of cards, but I think that the lower price point you're coming in on, the less important that becomes because you can just collect and not worry about it. There's. That's totally legitimate as well. Chris, is that like you're nodding? So. Yeah. But anything else to add to that thought? Nope. That's great. I agree. Joe, did you have anything on this one? Yeah, I just think it deepens the experience, and I think it's a lot of where we are at in terms of kind of being in the vanguard of. Of hobby content. Like, that's the content that I'm most interested in is understanding the context more fully and thus sort of gaining a deeper appreciation for what's out there or what might, you know, already be in your collection if you're lucky enough to have it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We're all. We're all in agreeance there, so we can go on to number four. Number four reads, emotion is not a flaw. It is part of the thesis. Desire, attachment, taste and conviction are not necessarily irrational. They may be the very reason the object has meaning. Oh, man. I mean, I am a very emotional collector. So. Yeah, again, I'm. I'm. This one works for me. And when I say I'm an emotional collector, I'm not crying over cards, guys, but. But cards do elicit a reaction in me often. Not all of them, but some of them elicit a reaction in me. I mean, I made that deal last night Remotely with. With my. With. With my vintage mem dealer. And I mean, I was just giddy all night. I, you know, I was late for dinner because that mean I got to dinner. I was in the best mood that night, great mood today. You know, like. Like, I just, like, cards enhance my life. The hobby enhances my life. My life is so. Is so much better because of the hobby that it's like nothing. You can't get me down in the hobby. I love this stuff. I love it like the, the car and the cards are at the foundation of it. And thankfully, the cards brought me the community, the people you see on the panel, the people in the chat. Like, it's just. The hobby is emotional. Take the. Take the emotion out of it. Take. Take the connection to the cards, the players, the sports, the. Any of that. Take the friends and relationships out of it. You got the stock market, which I get no enjoyment from except watching it go up over time. Chris, by the way, I just want to. You said I mark. I. When you said earlier, I just want to make sure you understand. You said that I mark to market regularly. Not my cards, only my traditional investments. Because it's all I need is like they're. They're, you know, they're tracked for you by the. By the firm. And then you just have to. But I can't track my card collection value. My. Unless I was using a service like card ladder, but I have too many cards to put in there that there's no comps on for years and many. So I don't want to know what my collection's worth at any given time. I like not knowing, but just wanted to point that out. So. Okay, but back to the topic at hand. Emotion is not a flaw. I think even if it is a flaw, I'm okay with that being a flaw. I'm okay with making hobby mistakes or finance financial hobby mistakes because I let emotion control my. My collecting. That's what being a collector is. That's why I'm not. That's why I'm a precisionist. I'm left of center. I'm towards the collector side, but I have a lot of investor running through me as a hobbyist, so. Okay, let's go to Chris first. Yeah, I love that. Jeremy, I want to just kick it back to you just for a second. I know you just said a ton of things, but just, you know, we're almost at the end of this exercise here. Stacking up what chat GBT put forth is the five bullet points for the art collector versus the stock investor, where are you? What percentage? Like, if you were. Are you like 60? Like, you know, if you have 100 points, like, how far are you leading One direction? You're talking Hobby Spectrum here. I know, I'm. Last time I took the Hobby Spectrum assessment, I scored a 38. I think that describes me. I think I'm 38. I think I'm 38%. I guess it's actually the inverse, right? I guess I am 62% collector and 32, 38 investor. Like, that's. Yeah, but you know what? No, that's about right. I'm probably 60, 40. Like, I'm certainly more collector than investor because collecting drives me, but investing is a consideration. When I hit, when I start spending, you know, when I hit, like, not only I said 500 bucks earlier, it's probably a little bit less. Like, I will not buy cards for $200 because I don't want them bad enough. So even that gets scrutiny from me at 200 bucks. So, yeah, but, yeah, I like it. I. And it, it's. It's. I think I, I scored an 18 on hobby spectrum, which put me in the nostalgic. And going through this exercise, I think that once again lines up pretty well about 82% in this art collector direction. But still, you know, like, the keeping and keeping an eye towards value, both present and future for me is a thing. And that seems to be part of the stock market approach too. So, like, I do find the spectrum has been spot on here. So I just. One other point I was going to make was I love what Joe said on the previous thing about deepening the hobby experience or deepening the collecting experience by, you know, figuring out where a card does exist in this. In the universe of all cards and figuring out what its significance is. And that isn't an easy thing. That isn't just like, well, how significant is this card? Let me go look at a checklist website. No, it. It can be a truly creative act to summon all of the facts that you think might matter to the universe of cards and then apply those facts to this specific card and then use those relationships to tell the story of the card. You know, that's a very creative act, and that's where collectors can use their creativity to look at the same checklist, the same hobby history, the same information, the same set structures, and see importance and see things that resonate to them that the next collector might not see and that person might see it differently. And so, like, that's sort of what hobby Instagram is. To me, at its peak, is like a collector really laying out why something matters through context, through like. And not. In a way, I love to hear the personal collecting story too, about. This was a great story. I took a flight. It was amazing. You know, that's inspiring. We all can relate to that. But. But the other story that the collector can tell is why this card matters as a card in the universe of cards. And so it doesn't matter if they own it or if I own it or if Jeremy owns it or Joe owns it. That isn't what matters. What matters are the facts of the card itself and how those facts can tell a story. Is it from a first set? Is there something special about the provenance of this particular copy? What are the facts that are intrinsic to that card that. That make it special? I totally agree with Joe. It deepens the hobby experience, and it meaningfully deepens it. For me. When I flip through my shoebox and I land on a card, the thing that makes the card sticky, the thing that gives it the most gravity in my collection, is when it has all that meaning layered onto it. It just makes the card feel so much heavier and just fall right back into my box and not be at risk of escaping. I have a follow up for you on that, Chris, because I. And, and to Joe's comment as well, I think it makes a lot of sense that, that you know, you're. You're gonna buy a card or your own, or you own a card, you research it so that you can build that story. You can actually understand it. What about the player as well? Like, you can research the card and its place in the world of cards, but like, like, for me, for example, I wasn't alive to watch all these hall of Fame baseball players play, but I love collecting vintage bas, and I love the cards and the sets. It's also nice to learn about the player, which I think enhances the overall experience and is a. Almost forces you to learn some history. And, and then by understanding these things, I think that what you're getting at, Chris, I don't know if you said it, like, overtly, but I think what you're getting at is that. But you just get to know so much about the card that you just grow. You. You're. You're gonna grow to like it even more. You already love the way it looks and you love the player represents. But maybe you don't know as much about the player. You learn it now, you know more about the card, you understand where it fits in the relatively. The Relative historical, hobby, hobby history that really enhances the whole experience of collecting and being a collector and being in the hobby. It's more than just accumulation, I think, is also what we're getting. It's not just accumulation, which is funny. So I'm going to say it's accumulation of knowledge and of context. So it's really information being informed and all that. Who else wants to talk on this one? Okay, David Novak, go ahead. So it's kind of like a hobby institution in a way to me. And the deepen meaning can be said this way. Can you tell the story about the player and their significance to the organization that they played for and their hot. And does that. Can you tell the story about the connection to the hobby with that specific player and their relevance? So I basically, you just kind of like tie in the. The player significance and what they mean to their organization that they played for and the hobby. Like the Green Bay Packers. Like, when you think about the Green Bay packers, you think about Bart Starr, Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, you think about the Chicago Bears, you think about George Hallis, Walter Payton, many more names as well, and stuff like that. And they have lots of significance. So it kind of correlates. So that's how I look at that specific bullet point. Okay. Before Josh Adams loses his mind for you talking about the Green Bay packers because he's a big Bears fan. Josh, you okay? Do you need to. You need to cool off or what? I'm good. Serenity now. I'm good. I'm good. Joe or Josh? Anything on Joe? Joe. Just speaking to emotion, which I believe was the. The bullet point we were on. I think I actually have struggled to be a little less emotional and a little bit more grounded in something pragmatic just as a general trajectory, because over time I have noticed that sometimes I'll fritter away funds that could be deployed in maybe more purposeful ways by getting caught up in the. In the moment. Right. And I. I mean, of a flight of fancy, say, you know, a team that I'm not even a fan of wins a Super bowl and some player has an exceptional performance, and I just suddenly smash Ben and, you know, find myself years later with a card that doesn't really mean much to me. That's. That's probably not the kind of emotion that the bullet point is expressing, but it is an emotion that I've found myself prey to. Yeah. Yep. Great. Additional thoughts. I mean, well, this is. I'm enjoying this conversation, guys. We're getting a nice, nice. Well, roundedness Here. Okay, let's go to the. The final bullet point on this second slide, which reads, illiquidity can be acceptable. The art collector may not care if the object is hard to tell tomorrow because ownership itself is part of the reward. Okay, this is really interesting because I feel like there's so much excitement by owners of cards when a new comp falls and people see that their car just went up in value. I experienced this just on Thursday night during the premier auction while I was experiencing a little, you know, some. Some slight sadness, one might even say depression over the Michael Jordan jambalaya that I sold for half of its current value. I didn't even get. We didn't even get to this card during the show. I didn't find out till the next day. But the Sidney Crosby Green PMG had a new comp, which was more than double what I remembered ever saw at the height it sold for like, 18 grand. I think it was actually the very first time I ever covered any auction on sports cards live was the night that that card sold on eBay by PWCC in like, 2021, March of 2021, for, like 18 grand. I already owned a copy of it at that time. A couple years go by, next one sold, I think, for like seven or eight thousand dollars. Like, oh, damn, I missed a selling opportunity there. But, you know, also not an easy card to get. I probably won't get one back, so I'm happy to still own it. Now here we are a couple years after that. Sold for, I think, over $40,000 on Thursday night. Tell me I did that gave me a good feeling. I can't pretend it didn't. It gave me a feeling that. That, okay, this card is worth more than I thought. When. When you own a card, you think it's worth maybe 12 or 15 thousand dollars and it sells for 40 over 41. I think. I mean, that is. That's. That. That was a good feeling last night. Whether or not I'll sell it for that or probably, wait, the next one might sell for 12 grand. You never know. But back to the comment here, because I know I'm kind of on a tangent here, and I guess part of that point is that not all cards sell all the time. And sometimes, and often the longer the period of time between sales, the better it is for that card. As soon as the card starts selling all the time, it starts to feel like the. Like. Like a lady of the night, as they say. It starts to feel like something that you can just get any time and you know, it's not that. Not that great sort of thing. So this one's interesting. I'll read it one more time. Illiquidity can be acceptable. The art collector may not care if the object is hard to sell tomorrow because ownership itself is part of the reward. I think a lot of us do strive to own these cards that we want to have. Chris, where do you fall on this one? Oh, you're muted, buddy. Sorry. Yeah, great points there, Jeremy. I think that there are a lot of wrinkles on this one. There's a lot more to this than meets the eye, because there's sort of an implication like, like, in the art world there. There. Like, if you. If you, like, go to, like, a. An exhibit or. Or a showing of, like, up and coming new artists and they have, you know, they. They price. You know, basically, I guess the price is kind of like, based on the, you know, the time they put into it and the value of the materials. Like, maybe you see like, a cool work that you. That. That you spend $1,500 on. And I think the expectation in that context is like, you're probably never going to be able to get any money out of that or not anytime soon that you've bought something for $1,500. You rewarded the artist for their time. You've picked something that should enhance your particular taste or it should enhance your living experience. It should. Will look nice on your wall. It might be a really nice piece, but there shouldn't really be any expectation that this thing will carry significant value, that it will carry any value over the replacement of some generic thing, piece of wall art that you could pick up from a Target shelf. That. That should be the absolute peak of sort of the replacement value of what you're buying. And so, like, when. When that's the scenario, it's actually saying something more than just liquidity. It's. It's also saying you bought something that nobody else values or that probably nobody else is going to value. And then that starts getting into taste a little bit, because now it starts calling in a question, your taste. It sort of starts to ask, like, you know, do you have bad taste? Are you off on this island buying things that you like but that nobody else in their right mind would ever buy? So the, The. The illiquidity thing, I think it can get really messy and complicated really fast, and it can start having ramifications and bleeding over into other things that collectors really care about. Like, is this reflecting. Well, in my taste, is this showing that I choose items that, that are generally desirable and so on and so forth. So I think there's a, I think there's a lot wrapped up in that, in the little, in this little illiquidity topic. But if we just really take it at its face value that, that we say, well, it's illiquid, it might be hard to sell immediately, but if you waited long enough, you could get the market value for it. But there might be some friction. You might need to wait a few months, you might need to sell it during to the, you might need to find the right buyer and sell it at the right time. You know, I, I, I, me as a collector, I, that doesn't bother me at all. But it is, but it's something to be conscientious of. If, if I own a card that, that I would need to, you know, send to auction or, or deliver to a broker and, and expect that it's going to take a few weeks or months to be able to sell it is something worth being conscientious of. Is a flaw of this bullet point here. Chris The, I think the, I think it's a fact that there's really no, there are really no illiquid cards in the hobby. Like any you can, you can get, you can get out of anything nowadays. I mean, except for the, except for the cars that are so cheap people don't want to pay shipping on them sort of thing. But I mean, what card that, what card is really illiquid? And I, you know, I, I don't, I'm not saying that the, that this bullet point doesn't have meri. It does, especially for a thought exercise like what we're doing. But I'm trying to think of like any object, any card that is hard to sell. I can't think of any card that's really hard to sell. Go, go ahead. David Novak. So first thing that comes to mind to me in, in my perspective is the, the one of ones those are cards that may need, you may need to do a little work to find a buyer, maybe, maybe not. It depends there like a lot of people want to buy cards where there's like an established value, but when you get to cards where it's never appeared, it just was graded for the first time and you found out that's authenticated. To me, it's like the most illiquid cards in the, in the market are the one of ones at times because it's just, you can't really, the value is just hard to argue to, you know, have the Buyer and seller meet on a price. It can be hard, I should say. Yeah. The only thing with that, David, is I don't think that, that, that, that makes it illiquid. I think it makes it illiquid at your asking price, which is a different thing because you can just post it for 99 cents and let it ride and it's going to sell, which makes it liquid. It might mean you take a loss or you don't like what you get for it, but it doesn't. So that's why I, that's why I come back to this. It's kind of like a bit of a, a bit of a flawed bullet point or not flawed, but maybe it just doesn't have as much merit as the other four on this list do. Makes for good conversation. But, but I think I also, I think the, the, the, the second part of it where it says, because ownership itself is part of the reward, isn't it like most of the reward? Is it most of the reward owning these cars, like I was saying before, even though I don't have them in hand yet, I did that deal on the phone last night. I already feel like I, like I have some reward. I feel, I feel rewarded by taking ownership of the car, having title to those cards. So, yeah, that part, that part certainly resonates with me. The first part, I just can't seem to get over this liquid, the use of the term hard to sell tomorrow. The other thing is that in the world of like, art, especially, you know, the, the fine art, you're not getting into any painting for, you know, under a million bucks, probably. I, I know there are cheaper art, cheaper artists out there, but it's, maybe it is more applicable this, this particular bullet point to the world of art. Much more applicable to the world of art than it is to the world of sports cards, but. Who. Josh Adams, Chris or Joe, have anything you want to add to the discussion? Who, Sorry, was that you, Joe? Yep. Go ahead. Yeah, I, I, I agree with what you said, Jaylee. I think it's sort of like not so much illiquid or, you know, getting out of something, but maybe, maybe at a, even a reasonable fraction of what you paid for it. You know, you could throw the caveat in there, but I, I was attracted to the part of, you know, the ownership is the thing which, similar to what David said, it kind of does lead me to the, the consideration of, of cards that are so hard to acquire that you, you feel really good about owning them and that, you know, a, one of One is a very surefire way to know that you have a card that nobody else has. And, and I think there, there can be. I've experienced recently as I've started to go into the one and one of one game, a lot of satisfaction knowing that I own a, a particular card and it is the only copy in existence. And it just kind of puts a bounce in your step as a collector. I'd say you should try it. If you haven't tried it, you should try it, you know. You know what's interesting about that, Joe? And you're talking about a one of one, you know, a card like that. I sort of have that same effect phenomena. I don't know about specific copies of cards that I own. You know, it's like that's my copy, no one else can own that. It's not a one on one, what you're saying, which is a, which is the same, it's different. But there's this. I have a similar, like emotional response to owning my certain copy, being very proud of my copy of a card, you know, because of when I found it, how I bought it, the price I paid for it, the way it looks, the way it fits me as a collector, the way it, the way it, it becomes part of my hobby identity sort of thing. So I'm not, this is not at all disagreeing with what you're saying. It's just like taking it to another level in a way. Absolutely. I mean like I think about your Joe Jackson. I mean that is a singular card even though there are other Joe Jackson's that exist, exist. So I, I, very fair point and well taken. And then in the modern world where you have memorabilia, cards, different patches are different, so it can, it can apply there as well. But yeah, the one on one is a special case. Who, Anyone else have anything on this topic? No, no, David's good. Josh, you're good. Chris, anything to really, if you want to wrap up the whole discussion now, you're welcome to. Yeah, I, I find it to be, I don't know, I, I guess like the final question that I have that would put a bow on this is having taken this pretty careful walk through. Probably like if you had an art collector. I would love to have an art collector maybe one day join us actually, just to see what they, how they feel about all the things that we say and then we can ask them questions too. But like I think if you ask like a, a mature art collector or stock market investor, they would both say we're just, we're just grazing the surface and we're missing all the subtleties and nuances of what they do. But granting that what we've gone through here, I. I think it just really places sports card collecting, you know, somewhere in between the two in a. In a really interesting way. And I, I can. I'm gonna continue to be looking into like what can we learn from these other things that are to. To some degree or another adjacent to what we do. It might be an interesting comparison point for some time too. Well, we recently had on the. The ticket collector and what was the other one we did? We did the tickets and we did. What was the other one we did? It's just been blanking right now. We had the ticket collector on and we had one other. Oh, the coin. We had the. The ancient coin collector on. Like you said, similar to what you're saying, Chris. These guys have other look. They look at their collectibles and we. I just wanted to see what we could learn from. From them about what we're doing. So. Okay, I'm gonna run through some comments here, guys. Skeppy here said the more I listened to David Novak, I liked his perspective. Maybe not agree entirely, but really good responses. Very nice, Skeppy. Yelia says, I collect the art that moves me. The same is true of sports cards I collect. Perfect. Jesse Double O's card guy says, I live with my cards. I display them proudly. I know you're the kind of guy that does that. I Love it. Jesse. Mr. Sub says all my cards are on display. Hockey cars are truly or sorry are definitely a true form of art. And I think by hockey cards he's. I mean, I'll say far. I think we're talking about sports cards in general. Collector for Life says, I hope the slides will be available online after the class. Michael Raider says, I agree live with means attachment to that item. Area 51 says the real question is how much would a sculpture Jeremy Lee go for? Not very much. Area 51 foul ball says, I could build a house with my cards if needed. That's how I identify. See, even foul ball has a hobby identity. He goes on to say needs or wants are two different things. Nobody needs cards. Well, I think that is a true statement. I think there are some people that might need cards for literally for mental health. I think. I think some people who. Cards are their life. Like there are lonely people out there. There are who don't. Who are very introverted. Probably don't even leave that. Maybe some of you. Some of them are watching the show tonight. And to people like that, I say that, you know, if cards are. Are something that bring you joy in life and maybe you don't have a family, maybe you don't have a pet, maybe you. Maybe you have a job you don't like. I think people like that do need cards, and I think that's okay. I think it's okay to. But that's an extreme situation. I'm not trying to, like, you know, argue with foul ball here. I'm just thinking of a pl. Of a plausible, you know, explanation to where it could be untrue. Jim, define here says, I kind of view money as a tool that we need to obtain meaningful things in our life. Collecting for profit would ruin the enjoyment for me, and enjoyment is the value for me. Yeah, that. I hear you, Jim, and I think that's a great approach. Chris C. Says, I collect first for the joy. If profit comes years ahead, then that's simply an added bonus, but not the end all, be all. Yeah, I think that's a great way to approach it. I think, I think many of us, at least in this, on this show and in this chat, approach it that way, but I think that. That there are different levels of it, for sure. Skeppy says, so wrapping this all together. Can a big card lessen the need for accumulation? He says, I think so. We are behind in comments, but. But yeah, that makes sense to me. Can a big card lessen the need for accumulation? That's an interesting. That's actually a more interesting question than it just reads because as I, as I apply it to myself, I'll get one set. One sec, David, I'll get you. As I apply it to myself, I think that I, you know, I go back to the Joe Jackson maneuver. You know, I did reduce my accumulation for one card. One big card lessened that accumulation. It didn't lessen the need for it. It forced it for me. So I don't know, Skeppy, maybe, but I don't know if that. If that gets into my head. I need to think about it more. Yeah, David, go ahead. Oh, sorry, David. Sorry, David, go ahead. Sorry about that. So you basically nailed it out the park. I just was basically gonna say, you choosing to get that big card will remove smaller cards off of your list that you may want or may have to get that big card. Perhaps that's how I look at it. Like a big card can lessen the need. Basically. It quenches the thirst to keep going for more. In my opinion, Chris, that. Yeah, Chris, you. I Thought you were leaning in. Anyone else? No. Okay, great point. Just, I. I would say it does. I. I think so too. And that's from experience, right? Joe, you're not just. You're not speculating, you're saying this worked for me in certain cases. Yeah. Once in. In bringing in a card that feels sort of like a dream card, I can revel in that experience long enough where the other cards, the little, you know, five and ten, I. I don't even know how to describe them. It could be 50, 100, but they just don't. It doesn't mean as much. You. You know, that's kind of how I. Yeah, it's kind of like once you get. Once you level up, let's say, the lower levels may not be as meaningful, you know, however, I've leveled up, but I still like car. I still buy cards for 8 to 10 bucks like I do. So Chris C here says I won't consolidate to buy one card because the cards I have now all have a purpose or a theme. Top loader, binder, projects, etc. There is a purpose. So what I'll say to this, Chris, as you know, an experienced collector, this holds true to me. What you're saying here holds true. However, themes and purposes can shift over time. Where you abandon. You can abandon a purpose, you can abandon a theme. You can fall out of love with a theme or a purpose. And then those cards, yeah, they still might have a purpose, but you're not as attached to it. And that's when those cards can go into limbo. And maybe as far as going into your trader box. So that just comes with. But maybe not. Is it at the same time? Maybe not. But for me, that's how that goes. Eric, those back Pages says Project 20 is. Jay. He's talking about cards that are illiquid. Project 2020. I think I could sell them for a bucket pop, though, Eric. I think I could. Chrissy says 1991 FLIR is hard to sell. Okay, fair. And Skeppy says if you drop your cards in liquid, they can quickly become illiquid. Very baboozle ish of you. Very, very Mookie Chilson of you there, Skeppy. I like that. And then for some final comments coming in on the chat tonight, Jim Define says money without meaning is less valuable. Okay. Yeah, I agree with that. Jesse says if we treat cards like art, then restoration is a. Okay. Oh, we're not going there right now. Funny enough, we didn't even get to the topic in tonight's title that says Altered cards and collections. And that was another David topic that we'll have to do another time. Eric says I miss the constant flow of mail days, but I try to get used to it, and that's about it. Okay, guys, listen, we're. We're good to wrap up, I think, are we not? We're good to wrap up. So, David Novak, I just want any final comments from you, your first time on the show. Anything you'd like, you'd like to mention before we say goodbye to the whole show. Well, Jamie, it was a great honor and a great privilege to be on this great panel with a lot of great hobby thinkers. I hope I can come back on again in the near future. It was great to be with everybody. I really appreciate the chat, contributing. It was a great time and I definitely want to come back next time I'm invited, I hope. Of course. I appreciate everybody here and yeah, it was great. I appreciate it. Thank you. Well, thank you. Thank you for the kind words, the, the, the, the honor, the privilege. Listen, we are we. And I am happy to have you here. You listen, you. If you're a collector, you're a hobbyist, you have thoughts. You and, and, you know, you're. You're easy to talk to. So thanks for coming on. Thank you for coming on. It's been an honor to have you here. Even Skeppy says not even, but Skeptic says this was a great show. I'd like to see David back sometime for sure. So there you go. Even chat representation is asking to have you back, and we have topics we need. We'll get you back here. David, will you beat the National? I unfortunately will not be. I have some vacations planned and I have certain amount of plant paid time off to use. So it's, It's a little complicated, but I guarantee next year I will be because I want to meet everybody in the community and try to join, get involved more in making content and stuff. As you should. As you should. Michael Raider says great show. Really enjoyed David Novak's input. Thank you, Michael. And Laura says great show this evening. Jeremy, Happy Father's. Yeah, happy Father's Day to all the fathers out there. It's already Father's Day to many of you guys out there. Chris, Chris, Josh and Joe, any final comments from you guys as we wrap this one up? Good. No, Joe, you wanted some final words of wisdom for the chat? Well, I just think the dichotomy that Chris introduced just plays quite nicely to the hobby spectrum. I really appreciated David's contributions and his willingness to be sort of transparent about what makes him tick. And uh, I learned some stuff and uh, I, I, I wish if he doesn't already have a, a massive Emmett Smith card, I think he, I think an Emmett Smith card is in your future. I can see that too. I can see that too. Absolutely Skeppy. Wishing everyone Happy Father's Day. Jim define says welcome one, welcome all. Jesse says and as usual, great show guys. Thanks for enhancing the hobby. Appreciate the comment, Jesse, as always. Bill Betts, good night to you. Thank you. Tony Conti. Happy father's Day. Area 51 says Jeremy Lee decides on who he will let back on the show on how they say over at the end of the show that's Hey Daria. 51 knows what's going on here, guys. I will be back here on the channel tomorrow night for the Fanatics Collect weekly auction ending watch party. I will be back again on Monday. On Monday with Dan Bliss, the founder and president I believe of the front row car chauffeur from the front row. We're going to be bringing on Brian Marcy from Scottsdale Cards as sort of his guest. You know Josh, you know Brian. You know Brian. Tell us what do you have to say? I know him very well. He's gonna for like 25 years in Scottsdale. Yeah, I've seen the national every year. Brian's awesome. Well, he's gonna be our guest. Yeah, he'll be on the channel with with me and Dan Bliss who's running one of the I think the biggest card show circuit on the in the hobby. That's on Monday. And then don't Forget Thursday at 5 o' clock Eastern is the inaugural episode of the Hunt only on Fanatics Collect. You can watch out on the on their website Fanatics Live or on the app. There is a link pinned to the top of this chat. Please click that. Go get your account at Fanatics. There's cost nothing to watch the content over there but I'd be grateful for the support and great stuff. All right guys, thanks that this was a great show. Tons of fun. Amazing chat tonight as always. Thank you to the chat for coming out. Thank you to our special guest David Novak. Thank you to David Chase for making a short but tidy appearance during his vacation in Hawaii. And with that we're going to start with you David Novak and with no we'll start with Chris Hoge, then David Novak and then I'll point and with that here on 6-20-2026. This episode of Sports Cards Live is now over. Over over, over. And with that, good night everybody. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the sports cards live community. Don't forget to like subscribe and most of all, keep collecting more great content to come. Sports cars is a lifestyle.