Could This Jackie Robinson Top $2 Million? + The Mantle Nobody Knew Existed + National Countdown

Hey guys, I'm Martino Puccio. And I'm Matt Santangelo. And together we're the co hosts of that Milan Podcast, an AC Milan based podcast in English covering everything from the youth system all the way up to the first transfers, pre game, post match and so much more. Listen to that Milan Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Michael Jordan Fly going Infinite Sports Cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now Jeremy Lee in the building and every guess that you ever needed SP cards after hours keep the hobby heated Updates, homie Talk like you never seen it Sports Cards live and I could ever beat it Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host, Jeremy Lee. So Leighton, the other cards that I wanted to talk about with you, there's two of them. Fanatics Premiere just went live with its preview couple days ago and I believe the fifth ever 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson signed card is hit the auction block. I haven't checked to see what it's at right now. I should do that. I'm guessing the card is on your radar. By the way, if Anyone is using AuctionWire AI by the way, SCL promo code SEL for 60 days of free service. But if you are, if you're using Auction Wire, you've probably seen this card already. Leighton, what are your thoughts on the Jackie Auto on Fanatics? And while you're speaking, I'll go bring it up and try to share it. So what do you think of the carbon? What were your thoughts when you first saw it on the, on the, on the platform? Omfg. Really? Yeah. Like what the. I mean, that's crazy. I mean really, it's, it touches all the, the, the right points, right? It's, you know, such an iconic card. There's only a handful of them signed. If you want to complain, I guess you could say it's not written from left to right. You know, it's, it's, it's right, it's on the side. But if that's your biggest complaint on this card, maybe you'll get a deal. Yeah, but you know, one of the things that I, and I haven't read the auction description, I'm curious, is there anything about the provenance of the card? Because I'd love to know about, you know, the history of it. Good question. I, I do not know about it, but if we just dive into the description here on the Fanatics Premier platform doesn't. I'm not seeing four daily talks about the card leaf, manufactured after the 48 season. Robinson Signature runs beautifully down the side in blue ink. Assessed as an ape by PSA DNA. It doesn't seem to be anything about. About the history that the path or the journey this card has taken from 1949 through till today. It is beautiful. I know my buddy Tony on Southern Collector 14. As soon as he saw this card hit, he. He released a video about it because this is. This is something he would like to own, and I think many people would. What does it mean, Leighton, to go from four to five copies on the population report of a card as significant as this? I don't think it's that big of a deal because of the demand, so I don't think it's a big deal there. But I would say that if I was an active bidder, I'd be calling the auction house and I would ask them, do you know. Do you know anything about the history of it? And I'm not expecting or thinking that they would know its lineage from 1949 on. But, like, did you get it slabbed yourself? Did the person who consigned it, do they know anything about the card? I would want to know more before plonking down that kind of money on something that's. So. It's such an important item that comes up infrequently. Provenance is really important to me, not just in cars, but when buying memorabilia, autographs. And I am curious behind it, but other than that, no, it's an incredible piece. I just like to know how it came to be, if possible. Yeah, I think a lot of people would like to know that. Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's an incredible card. Any thoughts on. On what this thing could sell for? I know you know, we're playing that game tonight, Leighton, but it's a 400. It's a 480 plus 96, which is actually. It's already a $576,000. Do you think this thing. Oh, where I'm seeing 3 million from double O's card guy here. Two questions for you, Leighton. What's your guess on final price? Just a guess. No, we're not. We're not gonna. No one's gonna hold you to it, obviously. And number two, is this the most significant vintage baseball card to sell in the last long time? Is it. How does this card rank against the. The half a dozen Wagners we've seen sell over the last three or four years? Those is a great, great question. So you referenced it before. How many of them have been encapsulated signed by psa. Tony is telling us six. Okay. And does anyone know. Sorry, sorry, not Tony. Southern collector. TJ is online. Tony says six. Sure. And so probably not many, but has there ever been one either slabbed or maybe authenticated by SGC when Jimmy Spence was there with just a letter? Meaning, like, are we safe to assume it's probably under 10, you know, total? Yeah. Yeah, that's at least known. Let's go with that. Sure. Okay. And then do we have the public record, or, to be fair, a private sale of the last time one of these change hands. I can't speak. I don't know. I'll go check card ladder right now, quickly, and see if. Yeah, I'm kind of curious before I give my guess. Sure, sure. I'll go. I'll go check that out right now. 1948 leaf. I don't know if I put in auto. Is that gonna help? I'll put an auto. I would put an auto, I think. All right. All right, now this. Let me go to highest price. I'll bring it on to. I'll share the screen right here. All right, so here's what comes up. There's one with the word auto signed 48 leaf. Jackie. Sold on Heritage, August 2023. Here's the card itself, just to get a look. It's not as nice as the one we're looking at here. The autograph is not as visible authentic on the card. Eight on the auto. This one is one on the card, but it's a very nice one also. Eight on the auto. To me, this autograph is far superior to this one because you can't see all of this one, but this one sold for $588,000. We're basically there right now. We're basically there right now. So your thought? Yeah, I'm gonna go 1.85, 1.85 on the Jackie. All right, That's a. That's a big number. 1.85. Somebody in the chat? Yeah, we. I mean, Stuke says 960. Patriot says 1.6. Chris C. Says 4 mil. Ted Williams says 1.6. Zach Swisher says $2 million, which was. Sorry, what did you say again? 1. What did you say? 185. 1.85. 18 5. Orlando says a million. So although that could be the last card we were talking about, too. I'm not sure. Yeah, interesting. Interesting stuff. Well, we'll see. We'll see where. Where it goes. And then the other card and Josh Adams, we're gonna Bring you on just a couple minutes. The other card, Leighton, that I wanted to talk to you about and get your thoughts on was this one. Right? Let me see this guy right over here. This 1952 Bowman Mickey Mantle autographed by Mickey Mantle right there, just above the facsimile autograph that was on the card already. This card is being offered by Rabbit Hole Auctions in I. I believe in September, October, and this, you know, I believe in reading the description on. On. On. Well, this is a collect. This is a Sports Collector Digest article. So reading the information here, it seems like the collector discovered the card, had it socked away for, you know, since. Since the 60s or the 50s, whenever it was. And that. I think one of the. One of the. One. One of the theories that they're putting forth is this. This may be like the first time he signed this card. Your thoughts on the card? Your thoughts on the discovery? Justin Hirsch, who owns Rabbit Hole, has been talking about this card and very excited about the card. Can't blame him. It's. It is very exciting. But what are your thoughts? Are you. Are you familiar with this card being out on the market now? What are your thoughts? I am in for full transparency. I recently had Barry, the gentleman who owns this card, who consigned it to Justin, who's also a family member of Justin's. He was on my podcast and we talked about extensively. So I am familiar with it. You are. And my. My bad. I remember seeing that video that you did with them, so of course you're familiar. Oh, it's all good. You don't memorize everything that's going on in the hobby. I do not. I. Guilty as charged. I do not. What do you think about these. These old tape marks? Like, to me, they add character, they add story. I would. I prefer they weren't there. Any thoughts on what this card could sell for? So I think that Justin mentioned this. Didn't Heritage just have one not that long ago that sold for about 90,000, or am I mistaking that meaning from that collection that they had another tidbit I don't have memorized. Okay. It's okay. We'll let you pass. I think that. I believe Justin mentioned that in that golden age sign collection that Heritage has been selling, you know, of late, I think he had mentioned that a 52 Bowman Mansell auto did about 90, 000. Is. What is your. Yeah, 9099 on Heritage, July of 2023, but January 31, 2026, on Heritage 915 for this copy right here. Which looks similar. Well, it doesn't actually know. It doesn't look similar. The card. The card's much different. Same card, but different. Different wear and things. So. But yeah, this one here did 91.5. And then up until then we're. We're lower. We're in the 21. 22. I see. So. Well, Jeremy, because of my screen small. My phone, the one that sold recently in heritage for the 91. Is that a vintage signature? Oh, yeah, it's vintage. Okay, I'm blowing it up. Yeah, it's a vintage signature. It's a vin. You're saying the signature above the facsimile is a vintage vintage. Yeah. And then. So is this a vintage signature as well? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Okay. All right. If I had to guess somewhere about the hundred thousand range, you know, it's possible that. Yeah, it seems if the. If these two. I think the difference might be in the story and the fact, I mean, you. You had Barry, the gentleman who owns it on. On trading therapy. I'm sure they're going to do a media tour about the card. Sort of a, you know, a small scale media tour, I'm guessing. And, you know, it's. It's a, you know, congratulations to Rabbit Hole Auctions, a newer niche sort of auction company. Getting a. A headliner card on there. Their logo is right up there. I do do some shows with Justin helping to get the word out about the auction. So this is another. This is. This is a feather in their cap over there at Rabbit Hole. And it's cards like this that can, you know, help bring you. Our. Someone did ask. Is Rabbit Hole linked in with auction wire? Leighton, do you know. Do you know that is an auction wire? So Rabbit Holes items do appear on auction wire. Yes. There we go. There we go. All right. Well. So, yeah, I just wanted to kind of get your thoughts on those two cards. The Wagner, of course. Let's bring Josh Adams on the screen and get his thoughts on a few things. Josh, you get to join. Let's go. What is up, buddy? How are. Good. Hey, Leighton, how are you? Good. How are you, bud? I haven't seen you in a while. I know. I'm excited to see you at the show. It'll be fun. Yep, absolutely. Jeremy, good evening. Hello, Joshua. Welcome back to the show. Thank you for being patient with us here. And really quick, you've been paying attention there. What do you. What do you think of the jet? The sign, Jackie, the sign Mantle. We've got a couple value guesses. Oh, and the Franken Wagner. Do you want to share your thoughts on what do you think? What do you think of all these things and their values? So I have no thoughts. I don't like signed cards, so I'm gonna stay away from that. But I think the Wagner I remember when it sold in rea in like 98, I think, right, Leighton? Yeah, that was long time ago. Many. Wow, that's so. I. I don't know. It's called maybe they also I was, you know, Layton said they maybe they did the different background to show that maybe for it's like a unique type. I had a different thought maybe they did a different background. So you know, it could like you said, once it gets in the stream of commerce and someone buys this one, they could crack it out and try to pass it off as a, you know, authentic non altered, non restored version. So everyone's going to know this one was the restored version. It's like a watermark almost. Yeah, I thought of that. But so otherwise very good show, Jeremy so far. Hey there. It's Wayfair here where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app when you spot it, a brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. Oh, you need a new grill too. Alright, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast expert setup on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app. Wayfair Every style, Every home. Well, good. I'm glad you've enjoyed it. Did you and I didn't ask Leighton about the and we don't. I don't need to get bring you guys into the well, we'll get your thoughts. Josh. I don't want to drag Leighton into the collectible heritage. Collectible assets on heritage. I don't want to drag you into that, Latent. I'll definitely drag Josh into that after you leave Layton and get some of his thoughts on that. But Leighton, I mean, I know you didn't come with any topics. Anything. We've been talking a bit here on a bunch of different things. Anything else? Any big interviews that you got coming up on trading card therapy? What's. What else is going on? How are you and with that how are you doing getting ready for the national? Things are insane. I know. How many days are left? We got to work, you know, night and Day. But really, I've had such an amazing day with my son and an old college friend and her kids. And I brought her son some Pokemon cards, and I brought her daughter some Lorcana cards. And check this out. Her daughter, who's super young, like 4 or 5, wanted to be like her older brother. And so I took some pictures. She literally hand drew. I mean, they're scribbles, but she filled up nine pocket sheets with cards she cut out of construction paper because she had no cards. So it was just really cute to see the love of cards at such a young age. And then you just be able to spend some quality time with my son down at the beach. It's been a great, you know, great day. Looking forward to tomorrow. And in terms of the national, yes, it's going to be an amazing show fanatics fest, which we're not setting up at, but I'll be attending. I'll be there next, next weekend. And, you know, I didn't know how much time we had left in between, you know, now and the National. But we do have some special things planned for the national. And even though this is kind of very impromptu, I want to kind of leave this to you. Jeremy, you don't have to give this away tonight, please, you can figure out how to do it. But it is our 20th year in business. Congrats and thanks. And I'm really proud to not just be in business for that long, but proud to be doing something that I love doing. And so I know as a really young kid, when I was like 13, 14, 15 years old, I'd heard of the national, but most certainly, like, I remember going to my father. Yeah, he's laughing at me. He's like, you're. You're not. You're not going. What are you talking about? You're not going to this. And I remember being about like 15, I'm like, no, dad, I have the money. I can. I can pay for my plane ticket. And he's like, yeah, who are you gonna go with? I'm like, well, I don't know. I'll just. I'll just go. I just figured out, right? And obviously he didn't let me do that. But I remember being, you know, very envious. There was no YouTube, you know, all that kind of good stuff. So what I'd like to do, Jeremy, is you can kind of figure it out. I gotta run in a second. Just because my son's literally behind me in this room that we're staying in my friend's house. But I would like to offer a $250 spending spree to one person to the national, who is unfortunately not gonna be able to go, but is a fan of your show. And, you know, how long you and I have been collaborating, doing stuff together, it's just really my way of saying thank you. Not just to the hobby, but in particular for you having me on here, you know, the last several years. And, you know, to me, when you've been in business this long, you think about all the different people along the way that you've met and have helped you achieve not just the financial goals, but the goal of enjoying your life. And so, for me, that's where I find myself at about 11:45 at night, sitting here and chatting with you guys. And so it's been a really fun night, but I'm gonna kind of sign off on that. You don't have to give it away tonight because you have a few weeks before the national. But I know I don't know my schedule offhand. Like, am I on next week? Am I. I'm not sure. But I just wanted to once again say thank you to not just you, Jeremy, but also to the community. I know what community means, you know, both here as well as to my business, to my son, locally in New Jersey, what his community of people mean. So I know community is really important. So I just want to say thank you, and hopefully I'll see you guys at least on one episode before the national. Amazing. Leighton, thank you for the generosity, for the support, for your time on Saturday nights here. It's been great, you know, just getting to know you over the years and, you know, being friends with you and hanging out at various card shows over the year. It's awesome, man. That's really nice. But. But we're gonna do it right now. We're gonna do it right now because you announced it here. There's people there. And I'll be honest with you, Leighton. People tell me, oh, do a giveaway, and I forget. I don't want to forget this, so let's do it right now, and that way, we'll get her all done. So you guys are. We're gonna do it right now. So here's what we're gonna do. And thank you again, Leighton, for doing this for the sports cards. Live community. It's my pleasure. You got to be here now to win, because here's what's going to happen, guys. I'm going to. We've done this before. I'm going to share my screen. You're Going to see a hashtag with a word after it. In order to qualify, you have to put it in the chat exactly like you see it. Do the hashtag and put the word just collect. All one word hashtag, just collect. Put that in the chat. Only do it once. If you do it more than once, they won't count. Go ahead, get your. Get your. Get your entries in, guys. And $250. And Leighton again, I. Sorry. Mike Petty puts hashtag fake Vince. That's not gonna work. Not gonna work. Mike Petty. But. But we love it. Leighton again, $250, is it? This is. Sorry, this is a credit at the just Collect booth at the National. Is that what. Oh, they can spend it anywhere that they would like. And if they're not able to make the National, I'll be happy to try to spend that for them in a way that they'd be happy with. But no, it doesn't have to be with us. It just would be for someone who wants to spend, you know, some money at the national enjoying, you know, buying some cards. What an incredible gesture. Thank you for doing that. The. The entries are coming in, guys. I'm showing. Let's see. I'm showing 196 people with us right now. We have 41 entries so far. So we'll let it. We'll let it run for a couple of minutes here or at least. At least a minute and a half or so late. You don't. If you. You don't need to stick around, but it might be fun to see. Why don't you. Or grab cross, say, hey, check it out. I feel bad because, really, I'm, like, keeping him up. I can see he's, like, tossing and turning, so. But I'm happy to stay for another minute or two. No, I don't want to wake him up to, To. To come on here. I want to let the people who are a little bit behind get there. If anyone who doesn't have YouTube Premium and you're seeing ads like, there, you know, I want to give that. That thing a chance for those people to. To get past that. So we'll let it go for like another minute or two, and then we'll do the draw. We'll know who the winner is. And in order to. To get the prize, everybody. Leighton, should they just DM you or email you or comes. How do you want people to. I would say just email me before so that we can be set up and you could be comfortable that you can claim your prize. So just email me direct Latent. Just collect dot com. Layton. Just collect dot com. And we'll make sure that. That. That that name is associated to the username in here. So now we're up to 202 people, and we've got 50 entries, so we'll just. That. That's awesome, Leighton. That's great. Now, are you at the National, Layton? Are you gonna be. That's a dumb question. I'm gonna ask it anyway. What are you more excited for, being at the booth selling cards or walking the floor and buying cards? Walking the floor, buying cards, meeting people, the dinners, the trade nights. I go to a lunch with my friend Jim and his friend Bob, like, on the Wednesday at Gibson's. Like, you know, all these little nooks and crannies are really what makes it for me. And I know he's sleeping right now, but I'm really hoping that if it's not next year, it'll be the year after that my son will be able to join me. You know, I'm really looking forward to that day. That's. That. No, no doubt, no doubt. All right, well, we are at 54 entries, guys, so just do the old 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2. And Josh Adams. Give me the one. It's you. No, with your voice. One draw. Here we go, guys. Good luck, everybody. The winner of the Layton Sheldon giveaway for the National 2026 is going to be. Yankees fan. Way to go. Congratulations, Yankees fan, on winning the giveaway. And Yankees fans been in the chat quite a bit over the past while, so thank you to Yankees fan for me and everybody who. Who entered. Thank you for entering and for being a part of the sports cards live community. And again, thank you to Leighton for doing that. So, Yankees fan, send Leighton an email. Leighton, just collect.com and he will take care of you there and that way. All right, Layton, thanks again, buddy. We'll see you soon. We'll talk this week and just appreciate. Oh, there we go. Yankees fan says thank you so much. You're welcome. Yeah, hopefully we'll do a vintage spotlight before the National. Yes, sir. Absolutely. Thank you, Layton. Take care, buddy. Take it easy, guys. That was great. Thank you, Leighton, for that. Wasn't that cool, Joshua? Awesome. That was great. All right, let's bring David. David Chase has joined us as well. He's a bit early, but we'll bring him on. We'll bring him on. Bring him. Hello, David. Hello. Welcome back. What's going on? Hey, Josh. Hello, Sharks. How you guys doing? Good. All right, listen, I want and Joe Perot is going to join us in about 10 minutes. Listen, we've had an action packed episode already and there's some big. There's some things going on of the, the, the, the, the. The Wagner T206, the Franken Wagner, the collectible thing. So originally I wanted to have Joshua on. I wanted to have. Have Darren Ravel on for longer. And then I wanted Josh to be on so that we could do some. Josh could. You know, I'm not a lawyer. I look neither. Just kidding. I want to have Josh on, but sort of last minute, Darren needed to shorten the time he was available. So I'm glad he came on at all. But I was hoping there that Josh would be able to at least watch that and help us, you know, just, just put some additional commentary on the whole situation. So. Oh. Oh, no, not yet. Oh, Josh. Okay, go ahead, Josh. All right, so I did watch it and I did take notes. So I have a lot of questions though, because. And I don't have all the facts right. So Darren said that there was. That this guy is a trustee of the cards. So, you know, is he like a legal trustee? Like, is there a trust set up? If there's a trust set up, who are the beneficiaries of the trust and where is it incorporated? I mean, where's the trust formed in what laws and what states? Because that makes a big difference too. If it. Is it Texas? Because Heritage. I don't know. So I don't. That's something. I wonder. I wonder if. If Darren used the word trustee, you know, maybe like in the place of steward or something like that, or, you know, control. So that was the question I had. It could have been. Could be either way. So then also, like, he had a good point about that letter that Ezra and the people wrote to Heritage, you know, just asking them to not give the money. They actually have a legal contractual obligation to give the consigner's money. They can't just withhold the consigner's money because someone else says not to. So without a judicial order, a court order, saying you have to, you know, put this money in a trust or in a. You know, I forget the third. What's the term David knows for real estate? Escrow. Escrow, yeah, there you go. I get an escrow account. So no one has it without a court order. Heritage has a legal obligation to fulfill their contracts with the consigner. So they got to give it to this Phil Newman guy. So like I asked in the chat, I I'm curious as to why, why they did not file a TRO or some sort of injunctive relief. Tro? Yeah, Temporary restraining order to stop Heritage from selling them before they go. Also there. I agree with Darren. There is no indication this guy's ever going to pay anybody. If he got a five million dollar advance and he still hasn't paid him, what's anyone to think he's going to pay him when he gets more money? So, you know, these. Unfortunately they're unsecured creditors, so they're like at the bottom of the list. So I feel bad for him, but they should sue the pants off this guy. That's not my legal opinion. That's my kind of like, you know, common person opinion. I can't give any legal advice because I don't have all the facts. I mean, if he got a five million dollar, which apparently he did get the five million dollar advance, I mean, all he would really need to do is charge a five million dollar management fee against it and say, well, it's. Well, that's the other thing. There's got to be. It's got to be a reasonable fee, right? So the loss has got to be a reasonable fee. So $5 million to manage. I don't know how many assets may not be reasonable. I think it's 100. I was told 130, totaling about 20 million. So he got five so far. He might get more. He will get more. He. If, if it's paid out. We'll see if this legal letter that Darren reported on yesterday is going to have any, any weight at the Heritage offices. That. That's zero. David, what are you thinking? I have a question for Josh. It surprised me when Darren ended up saying that with them selling, it's not getting further along in allowing the people who were screwed over to get their money back. But don't you think that if they are suing the person who has these cards, having a dollar amount for those cards would be more helpful for them to get their money back? Am I wrong by thinking that way? I think so. You know, because they want the cash, they don't want the cards. Right. They want the money. So yeah, I think having a pot to, to take from would be helpful. But I think once the auction's done and once there's that, once the consigner gets his money, I mean, these guys then have to go after him personally and sue him and, you know, good luck with that. Takes time. I asked Darren before he. We ended his. Well, before we stopped talking about that topic, if he thought that this was like the end of fractional fractionalization in the hobby. I think I worded. I said, do you think that collectible and rally and maybe there's another one. I can't remember what it was called. Were they too early? Were they ahead of their time? Or is. Is fractionalization in the hobby never a good idea, will never be a good idea, would never fly. Like, I hear about people partnering on cards all the time. Not all the. I hear about it every so often. Not all the time. Like it. Like, I think the problem is, is the, Is the SEC the regulatory requirements when you're doing that? But couldn't a group of 20 buddies just decide to do it and keep it away from the securities Commission? Josh, is that. Is it legal for 20 friends to each put up a million dollars each, let's say, make it real. 20 buddies each put up a million bucks cash, $20 million, and they go create a fund that is just by virtue of a document that they each like, pricked and put their blood fingerprint on and put it away in a safety deposit box. Like, is that skirting the securities Commission or is that legal to do? I would need a lot more facts. So are they. Are they selling shares in this? Are they each 20 buddies? They each own 5% of the fund. That's different. That's just private people doing. Yeah, yeah, right. So private people can do that themselves if they want. Right. There's nothing, no government interference there. But as soon as you are offering these publicly to the general. Like I said, publicly to the general public, but redundant there. But what is the difference between a bunch of buddies doing it and having to go through the sec? What, is there a test that forces you to have to go to the sec? I mean, yeah, that's. That's a very long answer for this show. So, I mean, there's a lot other things involved in that, too. If they're going to start offering shares, offering investment, Are they an investment? Are they a bank? Are they. What are they serving us? Are they holding money? How are they distributing that money? There's a whole bunch of issues that come into play that are, I don't think, appropriate for right now. Fair. Yeah, I know. It's not. Not a. I know. It's almost a silly question, like it doesn't even really matter. I guess we're not talking about. We're not talking about buddies again. Although maybe I, I just found a card you guys might want to come in on partners with me to Work. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. But you know what? This, this whole fractionalization thing and listen, like it it, the situation, it's terrible for the investors. And I heard from a couple who are in heavy on some of these items. Like I heard from two different guys who were heavy on the 52 tops mantle that I believe might have be the one that is selling tonight or sold last night on Heritage and these. I think one of the guys had six figures invested in this one card tells me that there are some people who are willing to invest in a fractionalized collectible asset. Obviously there are. The, the company made a bit of a run for it. I think the SEC really messed them up in terms of the delay. It could take up to six months from receiving the item to, to going public on it, Ipoing it, as they were calling it. It's a, it's just a sad situation for people and I think it's going to leave a bad taste in the hobby's mouth for this to happen in the future. But this is a segue into another discussion just quickly, really, because Jim, define here says theoretically isn't breaking fractionalization of the hobby. Josh is shaking his head. Why, why isn't it fractionalization of. And I mean, he's saying of the hobby? I don't think that's the right terminology, Jim. I think what you're trying to say is theoretically isn't breaking fractionalization of a box or a case or a pallet or whatever of cards. Not, you know, you can't fractionalize the hobby, but you can fractionalize collectibles or unopened collectibles. So why isn't it fractionalization, Josh, when you see all this breaking going on? Well, so the best way to talk about fractionalization is like the, the metaphor to us or liking it to stocks. So you're buying a share of a company, right? That's what it feels like they're trying to do is like they're buying a share of a card. When you're buying a box that's yours, you're done with it like that, it's over. Like you're not looking to resell. Everyone who bought that box isn't coming together then and reselling the box again as opposed to like this mantle where like I own 25 of, of of this, 52 mantle. Like you can buy and sell that, but once you have this have the cards cards of yours is over. Once you're trying to sell the mantle share that's still part. You need everyone to, to sell that. So I think it's, it's kind of apples and oranges kind of analogy. It is, and I, I recognize that. I guess just trying to understand what the tests are, what, what, what needs to be present in order for these things to have to be, you know, regulated. David Chase I think for frac fractionalization, it's a pretty hefty word. It's a. More syllables than I'm used to. When, when you're trying to sell those kind of cards, it has to be very liquid, right? You have to be able to get out when you want to and have somebody else that's willing to buy those shares whenever you want for it to really work. And it's really hard to do this, like, even by splitting a card with friends. I'm used to dealing with this kind of stuff with real estate very often and you have no idea how many people are in very bad situations because they split a home with a family member or a friend or three family members. And the issue always happens is that one person lives life a little differently and they go through a hardship and then what happens is they need the cash and either they now have to sell the house or the other people have to buy them out and it becomes a huge burden because it's an unexpected event. So I just think it's very hard to share large things unless there's just a very easy way to come in and out of the market for it. Yeah, yeah, fair. I mean, you hear about these in, you know, estate disputes all the time. So it's actually easier when there's a secondary market where anyone can just go sell their interest and recover the cash if they need to live their life. But when you're investing or co investing in a sports card or, or a piece of memorabilia, you know, it comes down to votes. It just comes down to votes. Do you accept the offer? Do you not accept the offer that's coming in? So, yeah, I think fractionalization in our hobby is dead for quite some time still. But hey, you never know. There could be somebody right away, very soon who's going to launch, you know, the next collectible, the next rally sort of thing. You just don't know. Right. So, Josh, a couple people in the chat are saying, you need a, you need a haircut. I think, I think you'll have found somebody. I need a haircut. I've had a rough week. I need a haircut. So it's tomorrow. I'm going tomorrow. I saw I'm getting the Jay Lee, the J. Lee cut. So somebody. Yeah, I saw that way earlier in the. Yeah, you saw that. Someone said you should get the Jay Lee cut for the national. Leave Josh alone. He's okay. He looks. I'll tell you what, I'll listen. I'll bring my clippers. Oh, that's best Sports cards live on the main stage, Josh gets a haircut. Yes. Yes, yes. Let's do it. Yes. Yes. I'm in. And then we're. And then we're shaving that helmet off at Chase's head. Yeah, like Jay Lee by the end of the national. All these big hair guys showing off, right? Totally. Yeah. Yeah. There we go. Well, that'll. That'll be fun. Now. Now we know what we're going to do for sports cars live. The national. Haircuts. It's haircuts time. Haircuts time, everybody. Hey, Joe. Joe's here. Joe, you want to join? Joe, you get to go. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the sports cards live community. Don't forget to, like, subscribe and most of all, keep collecting more great content to come. Sports cars is a lifestyle.