Fake Patches Are Everywhere. Here's What Collectors Need to Know.

This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up, required compatibility and availability various 18 plus the biggest moments in sports are streaming live on Fox 1. From MLB to NFL big noon, Saturdays and so much more, Fox one brings you the games, rivalries and can't miss moments all season long. And it doesn't stop at the final whistle catch highlights, expert analysis, interviews and the stories behind the biggest moments in sports. Watch live or on demand at home or on the go stream fox Sports on Fox 1. Download the app today. When you join Sam's Club, you get way more than you'd expect. You don't just get value. You get insider tips from fellow members. You don't just pick up a pizza, you actually vote on its toppings. Bacon crumbles. You don't just visit the club. Because with the Sam's Club app, everywhere can be the club. You don't just shop the latest fines, you find your people. And at the end of the day, isn't that what it's all about? Come join us. Sam's Club. Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now Jeremy Lee in the building and every guest that you ever needed Sports cards after hours keep the hobby heated Updates homie talk like you never seen it Sports cards live one-of-one who could ever beat it Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now. Welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Cards Live with your host, Jeremy Lee Leighton. Are you, you know, in your travels leading up to the national, are you for your booth, even for when you're going to be walking the Fleer shopping? Are you putting any more emphasis than you maybe would have a year ago on Yu-Gi-Oh appeal? Are you pricing cards differently than you had in the past? Because they're very nice for the grade? Is anything like that going on? Are you, do you have that like, do you have the Yu-Gi-Oh appeal fairy on your shoulder talking to you as you're planning for the national this year? Well, Yu-Gi-Oh she's been there for a bit, so as far as walking around, I made a list of some things I'm looking for, but I generally just like to see what's out there. Kind of what Joe is saying about a 40 leaf dobie. You know, I've got a handful of cards I'd love to acquire, and I'm not afraid to ask about them. But I also just like the museum style nature of the. The cross section of that with like the stock market feel of the national, where you can enjoy looking. And then all of a sudden, you're literally start. You stop dead in your tracks. And kind of what Joe was alluding to, you're like, all right, let me. Let me back her up. Let me see what I have. As far as bankroll, Let me see as far as some of the cards I was not thinking about selling, all of a sudden you're like, wait a minute, wait a minute. I think I could sell these two extra cards. Yep. Yep. These two extra cards are gonna be 12 extra thousand bucks, and that might put me in a chance. You know what? I think that they might let me pay off the additional couple thousand next month. You know, who knows? But I think that that's what makes it really fun walking around next week at the National. Absolutely. I'm gonna do a couple more comments here. First one from Bob Boozle says, someone check on Mangini. Jeremy mentioned the consolidation word, and I did see a video that Mangini did recently talking about it. It's not for him, and I think that's totally fine. You know, if I had my way, I would never sell any cards I buy for my collection, but I just don't have the luxury of living that life right now. So it does have to happen sometimes. But from what I. I don't think Mangini really cares if anyone else is consolidated. I just don't think he wants to consolidate for himself, is what I was reading. I'm sure you were joking. one-of-one Mr. Boozle, Sammy Thunder here, a question for the panel. I'm seeing more and more vintage cards slabbed in NBA slabs at shows. Leighton, what about you? As you're out there working your way through the industry, through the hobby these last couple months, are you finding more and more NBA slabbed cards out there in the wild? I'm seeing a bit more of them. Seeing. Am I saying it right? Csg. Yu-Gi-Oh that's right. So some more. Some more of them. And for whatever it's worth, I was preparing my national PSA grading order today, meaning on site. So, first of all, this is early this morning, and my son didn't get up yet. He gets up, say, daddy, you know, Morgan, are you okay? And I'm like, I'm going like this. I'm Looking left, I'm looking right, because I'm making a note of, like, what it costs to grade just regular, which, by the way, is expensive. Then the added premium of the National, I'm like, oh, that car's not getting graded the National. That car is not getting graded at the National. So, you know, there's. There's a lot going on as far as, you know, figuring out, you know, what to do and, you know, kind of how to do it. I'm curious if those out there are going to be submitting any cards to PSA and taking a shot. Even though, of course, you know, the. The prices are, you know, fairly high. As far as submitting on site, it does seem that at least the people I've talked to, some friends, some collectors, some dealers. You guys have any cards you're going to be submitting on site? International? No. One or two. I might have one or two. And I might actually go with Beckett. I'll have to look at the. The price point. But it's a dual auto card. I've had this card raw for a long time. It's a Larry Bird, LeBron James Upper Deck. Not pro jerseys, but auto. Nice silver autos. And I'd like to get it slabbed up, so that's cool. Well, to bring it back full circle, Jeremy, to answer your question, I'm going to be bringing a bunch of extra cards that I actually would like to get graded. And for the first time ever, and I'm curious if collectors out there are feeling the same. I'm willing to entertain grading some cards with csg, with NBA. I don't know how many are on this list, but I'm bringing them ungraded, and I'm bringing them with the notion of trying, let's say a couple small. Couple small submissions with some of these other folks. Vintage cards, not, you know, modern. I don't deal primarily with that, so I'll let you know how it happens for me, Jeremy. But I do think I'm seeing more and more out there. And of course, it's got to be a direct result of PSA shutting down the $80 and below services. In other words, right now you can only submit a card. At least I think it's $80. Yu-Gi-Oh You know, the PSA. So for that, Yu-Gi-Oh if I have a car that's 150, logic tells me I probably can't pay 80 to grade it. Well, Sammy asks. Sammy, great, great stuff tonight. Thank you. Says, do you all think that sg. That the SGC booth will be bombarded with collectors submitting there. They're situated kind of, I believe, by Beckett, in the. Towards the back of the whole show. I. I don't know. I. I think they might be. They're there. PSA's line will probably be very long and very expensive. People might go to SGC as an alternative. I mean, SGC's been around a long time. They have a pretty good reputation in the space. I think. I think that. I think they will be bombarded. Those. That's just my initial response to the question. Sammy, what. What do you think, Leighton? Do you think SGC will be bombarded? If I'm not mistaken, SGC is not grading on site. So they're accepting submissions, I believe, for takeaway. They're accepting submissions and they're taking them back. That being said, if they're still honoring their $15 bulk and we just. We just sent them a submission this week, I don't know if they're going to be bombarded, but they're going to be busy. And to be clear, I like sgc, but the reason why I'm going to be trying other or potentially other grading services is because I know right now, I just got back a recent SGC bulk package. It was just over 3 months door to door. And that's not counting. It probably took about 10 days for them to log it in. So the point is, I'm just making this up. If I can go to NBA and they're like, all right, it's X amount to grade it, you'll have it in 30 days. Yu-Gi-Oh I'm going to give them a dozen cards. Not because I think I'm going to sell them for more, but even if I can sell them for close to the same, then I would at least like to give another grading company or two a chance. I'm curious if others out there are feeling the same or we're just all sick of rating that we're just going to keep our cards raw for the moment. Let's get. Yu-Gi-Oh let's get Joe's thoughts. What do you. What's your gut feel tell yu-gi-oh, in terms of people dropping off cards at SGC next weekend? I mean, what Leighton said, I mean, there's still the turnaround time to deal with. And so, I mean, there's always the comfort of direct submission and you don't have to throw them in the mail. But, like, I'm not sure that necessarily changes. You know, some of my reluctance is just do I want to. Do I want to wait that long? And frankly, I Don't have that many raw vintage cards. And that's mostly what I would use SGC for at this point is. Is vintage cards. Yu-Gi-Oh Fair. All right, well, I'm gonna. We're gonna run through a whole bunch of comments here, guys, and. And then we're going to bring Geo on in a few minutes. But I want to say hello to diamond relics. Reef the Sea Piccolina. Hey, we got a new first time person in the live. Kenny's cards. Yu-Gi-Oh welcome to the show. Always get to see someone first time joining us here on the live. Glad to have you. Mike Petty says fake patches. The hell you say. Yu-Gi-Oh we're going to talk about that with Geo shortly. Tony says again, that card is the most important. Oh, he's talking about the Jackie. He says that is the most important vintage card to hit the market in the last two years. It's hard to disagree with that. Hard to. What's up? Reef the Sea. Marco. Guys, love the show. All episodes. What a cast of characters. Thanks, Marco. Greg says someone told Joe there's a shark behind him. Yu-Gi-Oh Joe, buddy. Careful there. Sammy said, I think we're going to see more and more NBA slabs appear. Tony here says I've done some force consolidations when signed. Jackie's unexpectedly showed up. I wonder if he's keeping the purchase the other night from us and he actually did buy it. Although I don't think he did. But you never know. He could be tricking us. We'll find out. Tony goes on to say, old heads say a card only means something if you have to sacrifice for it. Consolidate to get a card and they lose their minds. How can you sell a card talking out of both sides of their mouths. Listen, like, I don't to Tony and I don't. I don't give a. You know, what if about what anyone thinks about what I do with my cards, you know, if I'm. If I'm curating, if I'm buying, selling, you know, I. You. I cared before. I cared a bit more before. Now. You know what I'm gonna do, what I'm gonna do. Joe, jump in. Go ahead. I just want to say, you know the thing that always goes through my mind when I hear people any. Any sort of like criticism. Go back to what we understand these things to be. These are trading cards, right? Which is, you know, from the beginning, I think we've had people trading this for that. I mean, way back. So this is just another form of it. You know, cash is energy a collateral for, you know, something that Allows you to do something else. So, Yu-Gi-Oh I'm with you, Jaylee. Like trading cards. Trading cards, absolutely. JG says, Just borrow against your 401k. Gio, when he was back in the chat, said the. Oh, there was some talk in the chat about the ebay authenticity threshold. Orlando says curating your collection is part of the hobby fund. You have to give up something to get a perfect piece to add. Oftentimes you do. Oftentimes you do. Yu-Gi-Oh just like Sammy Orlando. I Goldin agree more either. Reef A C says, let's see some cards, fellas. Your mugs are ugly. Did that ugly af. Not just ugly, we are ugly af. Thank you, Reef the sea for those that wonderful compliment. Goldin Toad says, it's very easy to get into cards. Much more difficult to get out. Isn't that the truth? Tampa here says, when consolidating on a bigger level, how are you guys dealing with taxes? The intent is to buy something. Yu-Gi-Oh talk to your accountant, Tampa. That's what I would recommend right there. Ken Fickle, good evening to you. Orlando says, but Jeremy, I'm sure you don't regret the move to get the Joe Jackson. Sometimes you just have to go for it. I'm. I. It's the opposite of regret for me. Orlando Skeppy says, I learned a lesson a long time ago that anything I own, I can move anytime. The difference is the circumstances. How bad you want a card? All the way to putting food on the table. And Sammy says, sorry, maybe. Oh, no, we already addressed that one. Terp says, lots of people are emotionally connected to their collection. I'm certainly emotionally connected to my collection. It's probably obscenely to the obscene level myself. Good evening. Clay Phillips. Jay Hawker makes a great point. I agree. No one should apologize for consolidating. Absolutely not. Jeff says, Yu-Gi-Oh these you. I love this comment. He says, Yu-Gi-Oh these YouTubers who say they don't care about card values yet once a year tell everyone their top 100 cards in order. Yu-Gi-Oh Jeff Wills, Touche right there. Terp says NBA slabs are selling neck and neck with PSA lately. David Chase says, I think SGC is going to be a ghost town. He says NBA is going to be the hot chick at the party. The JG says the PSA line is going to be absurd. Jeff Hart, hello to you, Jesse. Welcome. Double O's card guy. All right, that's it for comments for now, guys. Thank you everybody for bringing them up. Leighton, Joe Layton, any. I feel like you just got here. We're gonna. We're Gonna flip out and bring on Geo here. But I can't wait to see with the national, buddy, as always. Ciao. Check out your booth, guys. Check out Leighton's booth. Just collect. Also at Leighton's booth will be auction wire. If you have not yet checked out. Auction wire. Auction wire. Yu-Gi-Oh guys, check it out. Features are coming fast and furious. Leighton, tell people your booth number where they can find you. And thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me, gentlemen. It's always great to be here. Looking forward to seeing hopefully many of you. Next week you can find us at booth number 301 and 303. We're going to be buying vintage cards all week long for cash. There will be no deal that's too large. And as far as auction wires concerned, we're of course, we'll of course be giving demos live at the national at our booth, at our booth with my co founder Mark Mandel. But I highly encourage you before you go to the national, it's a free trial. Jeremy has a code to offer you 60 days for free. Check it out because as a collector, if you're going to go in there and you're trying to find a Jackie Robinson 1949 Bowman or 194849 Leaf, you're going to want to know what's on the market before you go into the convention. And it's not just from auction houses. These are from fixed price marketplaces like rea. They're also from dealers like Ash for Legacy. So check it out. It's free to sign up. You can literally cancel after the national and have a free ride on us. All we'd love to hear is the feedback and hopefully how it helped you with your collection, but that's all I got. Jeremy. Thanks everybody. See you real soon. Thanks, Leighton. See you soon, pal. Take care, Layton. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability. Various 18 stream the biggest moments in sports live on Fox 1. The biggest names, the biggest games, the biggest matchups. Watch live or catch up on your schedule at home or on the go. Never miss a moment. All on Fox one stream. Now, did you know Sam's Club isn't a store it's actually a club with cool finds and like, a whole community. It's a club. Of course, Jason. It's in the name. Sam's Club. Club. Oh, Yu-Gi-Oh Come join us. Sam's Club. I'm not giving up. I am selling the building. The final season of FX is the Bear. The restaurant is flooded. Everything's either going to be okay. No. Or not. We are outgunned and we are outmanned. But we have each other. FX is the Bear. The final season. All episodes now streaming on Disney/Young says patch cards are great. Just have to know what you're looking at. That's a good point right there. Tony said, I don't care either. I just find it funny how people have to criticize if it isn't how they do it. Downtown, you know that we live in a world of people projecting everything they do upon others. Yu-Gi-Oh man, I, I, I, I hear you, buddy, but that's why you just gotta do you. And I know you do. Do you. So keep on. Keep on doing it. Kilted cyclist, first time on the early. Welcome to the show for the first time, Mr. Tilted Cyclist. We are pleased to have you guys. It's been a while since we've had Mike Gsfi from sports contentious Mike Geo, the illustrious to the clubhouse days to. To the Mint Collective. I know you've known my. How long have you known Mike for? I mean, I don't know, probably since the first show after the pandemic, the first national. I mean, listen, he's been in the podcast game as long as I have. Maybe longer. I will find out. Let's just bring them out. Let's stop talking about it. Let's talk with him. Mike, give me a thumbs up if you're ready. Everybody, please welcome back to the show for the first time in like, I don't know, three years. Welcome. How are you, my friend? Good, good. How's it going, fellas? It's going good. Do you know Joe? I don't do. Oh Yu-Gi-Oh Joe from the clubhouse days. Absolutely. It's been five, six years, I bet. Crazy. What's up? When did you, when did you start podcasting, Mike? 2021. 2020. Sold the breaking business and started doing the podcast later that year. Like August of 2020. So just the. I started April, so we came, we started right at, right at the same time. You linked up with a big operation and sports cars onsets is really blown up from there. I don't even, I can't even keep track of how many members you guys have in that Facebook group. You're in the hundreds of thousands. Are you. Is there a million people in that Facebook group yet? I think we're like 500, 485 somewhere around there. Yep. It's a big number. It's a big number. And now you are. You guys are working closely with the national this year. I see your logo and your face, I think in a lot of the emails that are going out. What's going on? What are you doing with the national this year over at Sports Cars nonsense. So I think, Yu-Gi-Oh I think we're the official. I forget the actual terminal. What a terrible advertisement is for them. I think we're the official media outlet, but basically, Yu-Gi-Oh we're just doing, trying to cover as much as possible and just kind of build anticipation for the event year round. And then this year we kind of sprung a few extra bucks and built out the podcast studio and just trying to get a ton of content up there like everybody else. So. Yu-Gi-Oh So you excited? You looking forward to it? You're a little nervous? You're a little stressed. How are you feeling going into the week? Yu-Gi-Oh always excited. I'm not excited now. You kept me up late, Jeremy. I'm done. I'm in bed with my kid. Dude, I put the kid to bed at 7:30, now I'm in bed at 8:00', clock, so two hours late. I'm excited. I have become a homebody though. I don't do any of the shows. I don't do anything anymore. I stay home with a kid all the time. So six days away is brutal, but it'll be fun. It's an awesome event. So I feel the same way. Getting away from the family for that time. And Yu-Gi-Oh for me, I, I come home and they actually leave that same day and head out of town. My wife and two kids for, for like five days. And I'll, I'll be. I was gonna go join them, but I got, I got shows to do, I got things to do and I gotta show the next weekend locally, so I'm gonna be. Be doing that. But listen, Mike, first of all, I want to get you on, just to have you on. It's been a long time and always enjoy seeing you and, and just, you know, just shooting it with you. You know, even if it's just casually walking by you at the national or seeing you here, it's, it's good to have you. But there's one thing that you've been talking about a lot lately, like really lately, this whole all These, the fake patches that are mostly on. Well on, not mostly on modern cards. A lot of the RPAs, the big chunky patches. It seems like this is a problem that has it. It's been a problem since the early 2000s. It's really, really been a problem since 03 04. You may not know this, Mike, A lot of the audience might not know this. Joe, I don't even know if you know this, but in around 2000 and like 7, 8 in there somewhere, I actually started a website called fakepatchreport.com fakepatchreport.com where you could, you could submit a before and after picture. And we have other, we have Tiffany cards doing it now. I think Auburn reports on a lot of them. We've got some fake patch accounts on, on Instagram talking about. There's probably some Facebook groups now. But it feels to me, Mike. Oh, and I gotta, I have a story that hits very close to home with me just this past week actually, before I tell that story. Mike, what brought this onto your radar and, and what's going on right now? What, how big is this problem that we're seeing? Can you just lay it Atomic? Not just what, what brought. So sorry, I'm gonna give you a three part question. What, what brought this on right now? How. And explain the issue and how big is the problem? Yu-Gi-Oh I mean I'll be honest. Like it's not new. Like we just started talking about because quite frankly we just don't talk about stuff like this. Like if something doesn't come to my doorstep, I don't, I don't go out there and research a lot of scams or reports in the industry unless somebody does it. And that's what it was. Two guys on Instagram who we vetted out pretty good. They did all the legwork, which again other people have done like on blowout forms. It's been a thing since 2016 and even before that stretching back to early 2000s like you said. But we had a guy we kind of knew a little bit brought us and said, hey, I know this isn't really what you guys talk about, not your forte, but this is a massive problem. And I'll be, I mean, and again, just self serving for me. The other thing is we work Zebra close with ebay now. Like there's times when people bring things to me and I'm like, I can't do anything to help you. Like it sucks and maybe we'll talk about it. The difference now is like, oh, I didn't know this was a thing at all, didn't pay any attention. And now it's like, well, we talk with ebay brass all the time. So we emailed them and got an immediate response. And I think you're going to see a ton of accounts banned. And then we're gonna, I mean, and just to kind of talk about the scope of it, it's wild. Yu-Gi-Oh Like, we started going down the stupid rabbit hole and the amount of fake patches and Jersey cards. So originally, Jersey cards, single color, they get swapped out for fake patches just to be sold for more money. And this little shill ring, there's one in Maryland that's very prolific right now. There's a couple others we haven't spoken about yet, but we're going to kind of talk about those as well. But it's all on the back of research other people have done. We just feel like, hey, we've got a bigger microphone. Let's talk about it. But for sure, these guys have reported on it for years. Joe, does it ever come across your desk, your hobby, the fake patch thing? Have you ever felt like you might have owned one? Have you ever bought one and been told it was fake? After that's happened to me a couple times. Is it part. I mean, based on what you collect? Is this something that even is a concern of yours, Joe? Well, as it turns out, I did get a card returned. It was a Ricky Henderson patch card. God, I don't know what it was. Was it like a Prime Cuts or something? I don't know. It was some. Some weird, you know, early 2000s card. And I'd owned it forever. And it had like, you know, the Oakland Athletics, like, perfect little swatch. And I, I'd been sitting with it and I sent it off to sgc, of all places, like, I don't know, two years ago. And, Yu-Gi-Oh questionable, like, returned. And then I. And then, and then it dawned on me, like, Yu-Gi-Oh that is a little too good to be true. And, and, you know, thinking about it, because it was numbered to 99, and I always thought I just got this very wonderful, lovely, intricate patch to 99. But in hindsight, I'm, I'm, you know, that that's not. And I don't even know if there was a lower parallel, you know, to 25 or 10 or anything prime back then or with that particular issue. But, Yu-Gi-Oh it has affected me, Jaylee, as. As have sort of bogus autograph cards that look like the weird kind of tops buyback stuff that I've been bit on That. A couple times. Not in any major ways, but it's. It's. It's definitely like a. A cautionary tale. Absolutely. Absolutely, it is. So I want. I want to share a couple things with you guys here. I'm just going to show you. I. I own these cards to this day. I'm gonna just share them on my screen here with you. Fell one quick moment here. Got to change up the. The screen share. So this card right here. This card right here, guys. I bought this card, I don't know, 15 years ago probably. I. I loved it. You got Joe Sakic and Joe Thornton, and somebody sent me a picture of this card before, and the Joe Sakic patch was the same, but the Joe Thornton patch was not the same. I was, like, devastated. I'm like, damn. You know, But I kept it and I. I now have a. I keep a folder where I keep all my images, and this folder is in my fake Patches collection because I'm not going to sell it. I just, I. I still have it. I have another one, too. The same thing happened with this card. Bought this card, was happy to have it. Beautiful Evgeny Malkin card, you know, Sidney Crosby's full career teammate. And then I see on the fake patch account on Instagram that this was called out as fake. I'm like, dang, not again. Not again. And, well, and get this, guys. It just happened to me again. A card that I bought at the Toronto Expo In April of 2025, a beautiful Ed Belfor patch card from. From Upper Deck, the Cup. I don't have a picture of it. I'll find it on my. On my Instagram here and show you guys. I owned this card for about a year, and I had a buddy of mine reach out to me. This goes back a couple months now. He didn't reach. It was a buddy I was meeting up with. I brought. I brought a box of my cards to show him, and he's going through. He's like, Yu-Gi-Oh He's like, there's a couple I would like. I'd like to buy from. Are they available? I'm like, no, dude, they're not available. I don't want. I don't want to move these cards. Yu-Gi-Oh well, what if I offered you this? And I'm like, well, oh, that. That's hard. Hard to say no. So we. I ended up accepting his offer on this card, which I'm having trouble finding right now. one-of-one I sell them the card literally two days ago. Maybe that's where I can meet. Literally two days ago. Guys, I see a post here. Here's. Here's. Here. I found it. There's the card I bought. Bought this at the expo. Couple days, I sell it back in, I don't know, March, couple days ago, this card ends up being shown on the fake patch account on Instagram. And I sold it to a friend of mine, and I was like, oh, my God. Like, are you kidding me? So I call him up, and he's like, I thought I might hear from you. I'm like, Yu-Gi-Oh man. Like, this is brutal. He's like, Yu-Gi-Oh this. This is terrible. What. You know, what do we do? Well, I bought the card back. I actually sent him the money. I don't have the card yet, but I'm gonna get the card from him. I know where I got it from, so I'm gonna see if. I haven't talked to the guy yet, but I'm gonna see what he wants to do. So I don't know. I'll go to you. I'll ask you a question, Mike. Like, this happens. This is likely happening out there. Everybody who is. Everybody who is publicizing that there's a new fake patch auto there, it's good to get the information out there, obviously, but you're impacting. People are being impacted. I'm not saying they shouldn't be. The information is more important than the people being. Than the impact it's having on a couple of people. But what do you do? What do you do in the situation, Mike, if you. If you're gonna share the information about a card and somebody reached out, they're like, hey, Mike, that's my card. What do I do? What do you tell them in that case? Yu-Gi-Oh that's tough. I mean, if I sell somebody a fake card, send it back. Like, if it's. If it's fake, if it's. The patch has been switched and we. That's how I'd handle it. Pretty simple. Kind of like what you're doing. You're gonna buy the card back. But it sucks. Like, some of these things are put in people's collection. Like, you. Like, some guy bought that Belfor card and probably put it in there thinking, hey, this is like a PC card. I'm never gonna sell it. Great. So, Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, that's the good and bad. Ignorance is bliss. Right? That's a saying for a reason. Yu-Gi-Oh but. But the truth is, if it doesn't stop at some point. And by the way, by no means do I think, because we talked about it on two podcasts, it's going to stop. And so like I said, we're going to try to deal with ebay and help and hopefully they're going to step up, which they have already, and really try to crush some of these accounts. And then we're going to pursue it pretty heavily legally in some of the jurisdictions in Maryland and see if that does it. Because I do think, like, I'm not stupid enough to think greed is all of a sudden going to go away. People are greedy. It's always going to be there. But if you see some people get arrested for fraud, Yu-Gi-Oh I think that would scare some people. I know everybody on the Internet's a tough guy and, oh, I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing. Very few people, I think would, I think a lot would be deterred from doing this if they thought there were legal ramifications. So I think that's really the most effective thing. But we'll see if it gets to that. What do you got, Joe? Well, I'm curious, you know, about the thoughts, you know, when you get into the flippers, vortex and or auction houses, right. Like, so exquisite or you know, some of the big curry, patch, patch, auto, rook, you know, RPAs. Like that gets to a point where, you know, Adam Gray has talked about like the error of the slab. But Jay Lee, like what you said, this has been going on for a long time. So you. That the era of the slab is no guarantee either. So I'm just curious, like, and I know the detectives are out there, especially with numbered cards. That gives you some leverage to, you know, do your investigations and everything. But I'm just curious, like, it's one thing you kind of have like personal train and it's, you know, maybe not all out there, but when you get into these, you know, six figure cards, like, that's some real damage and where you go sort of ethically, morally, like how much is the auction house to, you know, culpable and, or you know, the, the person who's submitting who might have gotten it from a different auction house. It's just brings into question a lot of interesting, like domino effects, I guess. Yu-Gi-Oh And then, you know, I want to get your thoughts on this too, guys. By the way, this is the before picture of that card. So that's what it looked like before. Not so bad, but you know, not quite as crazy as that one right there. So we'll see. Yu-Gi-Oh we'll see what happens with that. But you know, so here's, here's what, what just to go back almost 20 years, guys, as the epic, as the fake patch epidemic was growing. And it was a big deal in like two, like right from the get go of patch patch cards in like 2003, 4 or 5. On one of the old message boards, Hobby Insider, which I actually was the owner of for a while, I no longer am. I put out a challenge to Upper Deck because they were frequenting their, that, that message board a lot. I said, hey, if you guys one-of-one take images and create an image archive of the patch cards that you are releasing, I said, I'll come to your facility and I'll take pictures of all the cards from the cup this year on my own time and my own dime. Well, little, little did I expect, they said, okay, let's do it. They knew who I was already, so it wasn't like I was some, just some rando. They said, okay. So I went the summer of 2009 to North Carolina and I, I, I went and got some photography training so I could actually document these things. And I went and I photographed 28,000 patch cards for that product that year. And I proved that this could be done. It could be done. You could do this. Brad's Vintage here says it's so lazy that Upper Deck and Fanatics will not create a photo database of numbered patch cards going forward with box prices now, with what they cost now, it's inexcusable. Goldin agree more. It's, I think it's been inexcusable for over 20 years. And here we are, you know, 20 years later after I started fake Patch report, which I didn't continue with, unfortunately. Right now I wish I, I wish I never stopped that thing. It would have been huge right now. There'd be some people that'd be saving so many people right now. But here we are this, this far ahead. And you know, Mike, I know you said, and we all know it's been going on for a long time, but it's certainly right now catching attention. Thanks a lot to what you're doing at sports Cards nonsense with your, with the huge reach that you guys have. So I'm glad you're talking about Atomic, I hope you keep the foot, your foot on the gas with this thing. I think you indicated you know you did that you plan to do that. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the sports cards live community. Don't forget to like subscribe and most of all keep collecting more great content to come. Sports Cards is a lifestyle I'm not giving up. I am selling the building. The final season of FX is the Bear. The restaurant is flooded. Everything's either gonna be okay. Nope, Stop. Or not. We are outgunned and we are outmanned. But we have each other. FX's the Bear the Final Season, all episodes now streaming on Disney. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile Now. I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal, so there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for a 12 month plan. Required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes me slow when network is busy. See terms Shipping, Billing, admin, Payroll, marketing. You're managing all the things, so why waste time sending important documents the old fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want how you want with stamps.com print postage on demand 247 and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90% with automated rate shopping. That's why over 1 million small businesses trust stamps.com go to stamps.com and use code podcast to try stamps.com risk free for 60 days. In the US there's a break in every 26 seconds. But when intruders step near Simplisafe, home security steps up. Stop. This is Simplisafe. Police are on the way. Using Yu-Gi-Oh alerts, US based live agents help deter break ins. Simplisafe no long term contracts. Save 50% on your new system with professional monitoring@simplisafe.com Spotify or with promo code Spotify Outdoor Deterrence requires a Simplisafe Active Guard Outdoor Protection plan starting at $49.99 a month. Visit simplisafe.com licenses for alarm license information. Tennessee 2012 starting a business can seem like a daunting task unless you have a partner like Shopify. They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website to marketing to selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need. There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into Sign up for your $1 per month trial@shopify.com specialoffer.