Fanatics Debate Ignites + What Makes a Card "Big"? + Why 90s Football Is Still Undervalued

Hi, friends. It's Dan Wilbur and Zach Sims, and we're the hosts of My New Thing, a comedy podcast about obsessions. It's a show where we talk to comedians about their niche hobbies and their pop culture fixations. Everything from graffiti to 70s cinema, and really anything in between. It's called My New Thing. Get it wherever you get your podcast. Michael Jordan Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now Jeremy Lee in the building and every guess that you ever needed Sports cards after hours keep the hobby heated Updates, homie Talk like you never seen it Sports Cards Live and I could ever beat it Sports cards is a lifestyle Sports cards and we live now. Welcome to another episode of Sports Cards Live with your host, Jeremy Lee. All right, Chris McGill's entered the. Entered the studio, everybody. Chris, you wanted. You ready to come on? He's ready. Let's bring on everybody. Please welcome Chris McGill to Sports Cards Live yet again. Chris, say hi to Mr. Novak and Mr. Chase. Hello to Mr. Novak and to Mr. Chase. Nice to meet you, sir. You too, David. Great to put a face to the. To the great Instagram account. I was looking at some of your cards before I came on. I mean, you got some of the best 90s football stuff, man. I was looking at that stuff. I was like. And I. I couldn't. I was actually looking at the pile of. You said you traded some stuff, and I think maybe it ended up in that PMG green. But, like, you had a Quantum Gold one of one Brett Favre in there, and you had 98 Legacy Showcase, one of one Masterpiece of Fire. I was just like, man, this. You. This is eye candy is the stuff I love. Hey, thank you very much for that. I appreciate that. Yeah, I used all of those cards and money, not 401k money, but other money to get the green. PMG Aikman. So it was. Congrats, really. Thank you very much. It was really something I wanted, so I just had to make that move, so. Oh, congrats, man. I don't know if we get a chance to do this at this segment of the show or not. I'd love to just hear a little bit more about, like, collecting 90s football. Like your bio and IG says focus on 97, 98 football. I'm fascinated by that genre right now, so I don't know. Jeremy, don't. Don't. Let me comment. No, man. Okay, listen, if. If there's something you'd like to extract from David Novak's brain right now, some information you want, you're interested in. I gotta think other people would be as well. So feel free. But before you do that, Josh Adams has entered the studio as well. We're gonna bring him. Josh, give me a thumbs up if you're good to go. Everyone, please welcome the hobby's favorite lawyer on Sports cards live, Mr. Joshua Adams. Welcome to the show. Please meet David Novak. Josh. David, we've talked before. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Joshua. Christopher, how are you? David, I see you're having fun playing Call of Duty. So it's nice to see you on here. What's going on? Well, we're, we're, we're, we're on, we're, we're on a heater here. Josh Adams, the heater of a month here on Sports Cards Live. And we're going five way right now. So where we are, Hoage just sort of posed a question back to Novak. Novak, we're going to give you a moment to respond to Chris Hoage and, and fill him in on your thoughts on 90s football. I've got over 30 comments that I want to get to soon and we'll, we'll rip through them. But let's go to Novak first, then maybe we'll give everyone a breath. We'll go through some comments. So Novak, over to you. So now this is, I brought some data and stuff like that. Oh, no, Chris loves data. Yeah. Come prepared. So basically like now obviously Jordan is Jordan. I don't want to take anything away from him, of course, but I really found some interesting data that basically in the 90s I was reviewing like, which, which dynasty had more Nielsen TV ratings. And from my data research, I found that the Dallas Cowboys had a higher TV rating than the 90s Chicago Bulls. Now this isn't nothing against Michael Jordan, of course, and obviously he's the king of the hobby in my opinion. But based upon my data, I found that Bulls vs Jazz, the Finals average was 18.7 Nielsen rating. Game 6 was rated at 22.3 with 35.89 million viewers. Now, when looking at the Dallas Cowboys dynasty through the Nielsen ratings perspective, there was the rating was 30 during the Super Bowls and the 96 Super bowl had 90 million views. But it's just like it's never translated over to the cardboard. To me, I feel that it's just like a very, it's a pool that there's not a lot of people in. I mean, there are, but there aren't. It's a fun lane. Like, I just love the Dallas Cowboys. I just, Troy Aikman's been my guy most of my life and I've always gotten cards of him posting here, posting there of them. And I just like a lot of the guys like, I like Brett Favre of John Elway. I will pick up some of their cards here and there, but I just mainly focus on the 97 and 98 catalog. 99 stuff is nice, but just the, they exchange hands way too much in my opinion. So I just generally stay away from 99 and in 96 in football, they just don't have the, the best of the best. I think it's just 97.98. If you just analyze like the, you know, the, the scarcity element, the historical relevance and the obviously the prices and stuff. So one comment before Hoage responds because it'll be a bit different than what HOJ is going to say. I, I think is that where we're at in the hobby right now with fanatics having the football licenses as of April of this year. So this new, this new fanatics football era and with what Michael Rubin is, has been able to do already. He's, he has, I don't know if he's 10x the hobby yet, but I think he's well on his way to meeting that. Like, listen, I'm not saying it's happening this year, but I think he is on his way to accomplishing that publicly stated goal is that if anyone is going to be able to convert the sports fan into the sports card collector, I think it's Michael Rubin at the helm of fanatics. For better or for worse, good or bad, however you want, whatever way you want to look at it. I do believe that the hobby is in the best position it's ever been to convert the sports fan to the sports card collector because of the reach and marketing savvy of fanatics with, with Michael Rubin at the helm, I mean, just look, they got Tom Brady opening stores across North America. They're about to launch a chain with Lewis Hamilton and David Adams Card World. So just wanted to throw that in. Chris, let's go to you to respond to Novak. Yeah, sure. David Novak, did you want to, did you want to have any comments on Jeremy's point there before I jump in? Because sometimes I don't, you know, maybe there's something. Thank you, Chris. Sure. The floor is yours, sir. Thank you. I yielded my time, but you yielded it back. Let's go. All right, so I don't know. There's, there's two paths. You went down two different paths that I liked Let me start with the 96 versus 97, 98 path. I'm also. I've discovered rather recently, I think, that I'm really a 97 and later collector, so. And I'm fascinated by 97 and 98 for a variety of reasons. I'm curious for your reasons, like, maybe more specifics, like, why is it not 96? What is it about 97 and 98? So through my view, 96 in football does not have, like, the cream of the crop parallels and inserts. Pinnacle was really impressive with the innovation that they provided during those times. There's just a lot of issues with those cards. The print runs aren't really clear and defined. There's a lot of fake cards. I come across, like, a lot of, like, sheets too, of these cards. So I don't. I think the market just doesn't have a lot of confidence in that, in into those cards. They are very nice cards, though. But I just think 97, 98 is just when Flir just went crazy. They just did. They just did the best that they could because I think Pinnacle was like, really peaking as well. And they were really trying to compete with Pinnacle because Pinnacle was just putting cards in cans. They were just doing all types of crazy stuff. And then FLIR is just trying to match and beat them. And it was just like, like, you'll see, like, the green PMG was like, for, like Barry Sanders was like the 10th best card in the Beckett or. Or something along those lines. It's just like the hobby narratives changed. And I just think that if you really analyze, like, the catalogs, the sets, like, you do it through your content, which I'm a fan of, of course. I just feel like the best of the best is in 97, 98 with FLIR, and just. That's just my opinion. Yeah, I love it, man. It's not often that I get to go back and forth, at least not in the hour in which we bend space and time continuum, about late 90s football sets. So. So let me, Let me. Can I just tag in Joshua Adams, Esquire? Because, Josh, I know you love the late 90s stuff. I don't know if you're ready to talk about a few of your late 90s pickups, rookie cards, cornerbacks. But I just want to tap you in to see if you want to chime in here. Yeah, man. There's. In the late 90s, football has some really great, like, parallels, some really great inserts, just kind of everything you guys said. And, you know, that's when you know, Charles Woodson came on the scene, which is like, you know, it's like five different types of collectors collect him. And then you've got, yeah, PMGs. You got most of the parallels that were in basketball and football, but then football's got some other parallels that are not in any other sport. And I'll give you an example. Like the cut above in football has the full circle, whereas basketball just has the bottom is leveled off. And it's just, it's great. No, it's love, love football cards. A lot of people collect football cards. And Christopher Jeremy, I'll address your other comment about the fanatic CEO later on in the show. Oh, you can go ahead. You can go ahead and do that right now. Josh Adams, I have thoughts. I have. I significant, significantly disagree with that comment that he's converting people to collectors. He's converting people to addicted gamblers, but not to collectors. Oh, that's okay. I think he's terrible for the hobby. Okay, no, listen, fair, fair opinion. And I didn't, you know, I think when I think about growing the hobby, I'm thinking about it for, at the industry level, really. I'm thinking about it from card show, from the amount of people I'm seeing at card shows, the amount of money I'm seeing cards go for. I mean, I've been to several card shows this year. They're busier than they've ever been. So I'm seeing more and more people collecting. And I think the one thing I'll say that I think that I think is not, is what you said has some truth, but it's not absolutely true. There are a lot of people who are discovering the hobby because of Tom Brady opening stores because of Mr. Wonderful wearing the, the necklace on the red carpet. People are discovering the hobby and becoming real collectors. But yes, many of them are becoming cardboard gamblers as well. No doubt about that. I mean, opening wax is gambling. Opening any product of wax is gamb. I mean, yes, you can enjoy doing it with your kid, it's fine. But you are, you are gambling. You're gambling with your kid now. I guess it just depends what your financial situation is as well, right? Not everybody has to be gambling to spend big money in cards, but I think many people do. So fair, fair comment. I mean, listen, but I don't think you can, I don't think you can argue that fanatics is growing the hobby. The hobby, Josh, not the number of collectors. Because remember, collecting is just a part of it. The hobby lives in an. The hobby is an Industry. It's an industry now. Yeah. So okay, that was. Okay, so we, we got that con that, that done. Anything else David Novak on the topic or David Chase or. Go ahead Novak. I was also going to mention I think 90s cards too like have lots of great cards that aren't really dependent on the val of the. Aren't dependent on the grade. I think most of the best cards are not PSA 10s. I think a lot of them, the authentic altered cards. As a matter of fact there's a lot of good cards out there. Green PMGs like I've seen like a green John Elway that's authentic altered and I find that to be a great card. I mean many people wouldn't want to touch it but I think maybe it's altered because the card through the opinion of the greater that day maybe the, the edge cut, the way the card was cut might not aligned up perfectly to their standard and maybe that's why they put authentic altered. I just think that there's a lot of good cards that are in authentic slabs from the 90s that are just really overlooked at the moment. I agree with that. David Novak. I'm still discovering cards in the 90s that I've never seen before and I'm like wow, this is beaut. People just aren't on to a lot of them yet. Will they get there? I don't know and maybe hopefully they don't. Hopefully those car. Hopefully there are still some cards that remain affordable to the masses because we see a lot of people regularly complaining that and justifiably so that they can't afford the hobby anymore. And that's, that's. But that's got so much more to do than any one company or any one league or really if anything the leagues. The leagues and the PAs are, are. Are driving the price of wax to an extent. Yes. They saw that they could get more for it. When covet happened and the. The breaker, the. The rise of the breaker, they thought wow, there's potential here, we better get our piece. And now fanatics and other licensors or licensees I guess need to be able to pay those, pay those fees, pay those dues. When the leagues are your Partners and the PAs are your partners, they have to answer to them. So yeah, listen, the hobby is different than it ever was and it's not, it's not for everybody anymore. That said what I'm. When I say that I'm talking about ultra modern product off the shelf. That said you can go to any LCS most LCS's with a hundred bucks and come out with 100 cards for a collection. If you want, you can go to Burbank Sports Cards in LA and go into the fishbowl there and just have your way in those dollar boxes and come out with a, with a nice collection. But the kids want to open packs and get the hits, so it's kind of just like a circular discussion. I don't know that it's ever going to be worked out who put up their hand. Was that Ch. Was Josh Adams. Go ahead, Josh. Well, you just said it's the hobby is not for everyone anymore. Well, then how can you also say that fanatics is now making the hobby more inclusive to people? I, I, I think the hobby is growing, but not because of fanatics. Well, maybe, maybe they, maybe they're bringing in a hundred people who make 150 grand a year and they're only losing 50 people who are making 50 grand here. I, I don't know. I mean, the fact of the matter is I'm seeing more people a card shows than ever before and cards are selling for more than ever before and product can't be kept in stock more than ever before. So you know that that's how you know if it, and maybe, maybe it has nothing to do with fanatics. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe fanatics is getting lucky coming into the right time. I'm just looking at the indicators, Josh. I'm looking at Tom Brady talking about Carl Anthony Towns on I think the Seth Meyer show the other night, talking about being on Fanatics Collect, opening up cards. I mean, to say he's had nothing to do with it is naive, I would say. To say that he's had everything to do with it is also naive. So it's somewhere in the middle of that. It's a spectrum, Josh. Just like everything else, it's somewhere in between. So. Okay. David Chase. How are you doing? You're on vacation. You're sticking around for a bit. Do you have anything to say? Are you, are you. I just want to know where you're at. Yeah, I have a few more minutes, but I just want to know now. We can't hear you. Sorry. Can you not hear me? Yeah. So I ended up, Josh, when you just ended up mentioning. It is growing though, right? Even though you don't feel like it's because of fanatics. What, what were you thinking there when you were saying that? Like, why is it growing if it doesn't have to do with fanatics? You're muted, Josh. Oh, how about now? You're good. All right. I think it's. My table just fell. I think it's growing. Just the natural course of things. Social media helps a lot. I mean, Phoenix has a hand in it. You can't say it doesn't. But I don't think they're as responsible for such a growth. And who knows how long it's going to last. Well, that's the other thing. Who knows how exactly. Who knows how long it's going to last? But I'll tell you, I'll tell you, listen, like, whether you like Michael Rubin or not, I've never met. I've never spoken a word to Michael Rubin. I think I've spoken three words to Michael Mahan, I believe is his second in command of fanatics. That was at the national, like three years ago when I, we walked. He walked by, I said, hey, how's it going? He said, good. He goes, I'm Michael, man. I said, I know who you are. And that was like. Then he. His. Because, you know, his crew came and they, they continued on. That was like the extent of the conversation. So I don't know much about what about the higher ups at fanatics at all. But that said, it seems to me like something is, you know what? I'll just leave it. Maybe they got lucky. Maybe they just got lucky and they came in. But I don't know. I think that there's, there's some. There's got to be something there because they. Again, oh, the timeline, the, the horizon here. They've got. We don't know how long these licenses are for. But the, the fact, I mean, you just got. You just think about the, the fact that Michael Rubin can reach out to the owner of any franchise in professional sports, can reach out to the commissioner to. Of any franchise, and can reach out to the superstars in any sport. I mean, that's power like no other card company executive has ever had. That is accessibility like no other card card company CEO has ever had in the past, maybe since Cyberger. And that was only baseball for the most part. So I think. I'm not too certain, but. So I don't know. I think he's got a significant, a significant amount to do it. Like significant. You know, there's a term in accounting called significant influence. I think Michael Rubin and fanatics have significant influence. But I agree with Josh. It's not just them. Social media has a lot to do with it as well, and other things, I'm sure, as well. So back to you, Josh Adams. Do you think anything will happen negatively with the hobby if baseball goes on strike next year, which is looking like it will be. Absolutely. That's gonna hurt. That'll hurt. I don't think it hurts. I think it helps the other sports. I think it helps. So I don't know, I don't know if it's going to be a zero sum game because there are baseball only collectors and a lot of them will get so ticked off that they might quit the hobby altogether. So that's a, that's a net loss to, to the overall hobby. But I think that a lot of people who love to collect will go to their favorite football team, basketball, soccer, hockey team, or, or maybe they'll join David Chase and move towards music, cards. I mean, there's all sorts of other alternatives to the people who are true. And listen, if you're a real collector and you're real hobbyist, then I mean, why are you quitting? Just because baseball quit? But I say that with tongue. I say that tongue in cheek. Sorry. I think Novak, you put your hand up. I think. Yeah, go ahead. So I think it really depends on. With the baseball strike topic. I, I think it depends on how long the strike will be. I just think it's just rich people arguing with rich people in my estimation. And I think that they're going to figure it out. But I think like a couple years ago there was like a little bit of a delay to one of the seasons within like the last three or four years, if I'm not mistaken. I think there was like a little bit of a delay. It didn't really impact much. I mean, maybe a check card ladder on some of the guys and stuff like that that were like trendy during that time, how their cards did. But I don't think there was a lot of like turmoil in the baseball market because it was just like a short like disagreement. I guess it really depends on how long it's going to be for if there is one, in my opinion. Fair comment. Anyone have anything, any response there? No. Hands go up. Okay, thank you, David Novak for that. I'm, I'm looking at comments. We got, we got an S ton right now because, you know, I don't like to swear on the show. So I say we got an s. Ton of comments at the moment. So why don't we do that. Let's give the panel a little break. Unless. Ho. Josh. David. David. Anyone? No. You good? You good for now. Okay, let's go through some, some comments. I've only got 41 of them that I want to get to. So we'll start with high proper. Faster said. As a millennial, I don't think I'm alone in having to make tough choices to sell cards in order to ladder up and pursue bigger grail items. And high pop professor just did that with a big Maddox collection. Area 51 said. An old lady once told me, you spend the first 60 years of your life trying to accumulate stuff and then spend the rest of your life trying to get rid of it. My plan is to accumulate. I've been saying 75 for years. I know I'm adding five years onto my life. I'm going to try to accumulate for 80 and sell for 10 to 20. Bradley here says all cards could fall to zero if the. If the economy tanks terribly. At which point does it matter if your money's in cards or. Or traditional investments? No. Doesn't really matter where your money was. You may as well have some fun. JG says shouldn't have to touch your 401k to invest in sports cards. That's fair. Fair position to take for anybody. Tony here says that's the worst investment advice I've heard in a long time. If you get, if you get let go from a job, you owe the loan on a 401k back immediately. This is reckless to advocate for. Stop it. I think he's talking to you there. Yeah, Novak, I think he's talking to you there. Do you want. I mean, you've kind of responded to this. Do you want to go again though? I'll take 15 seconds on this one. I know you're trying to move through the comments. Thank you. No problem. So it's all about how confident you are in betting on yourself as a person. You have to be there mentally and believe in yourself. Be a marketable like be. Be coachable. Be able to work and be able to go in different settings and be able to excel. So I just feel you just have to believe in yourself and know that there's always plan B, C all the way through Z. Just got to be prepared in life. Well said. Tony here says 50 bucks a week times 50 weeks is 2500. So be ready to pay it back immediately. Hope your cards are liquid. I don't know. But the cards you've shown are very liquid, Novak. So you're good in the event you need them. But I think by the sounds of it, the financially you are secure such that you will not need to sell your sports cards High pop. Professor here says I took out a loan to purchase a Maddox collection back in February. But I generally wouldn't recommend that course of action for others. Now I've happened to watch Brian the hip hop Professor's videos on that and the loan wasn't. From what I gathered, it wasn't that much money. It was significant. It was five figures but it wasn't like bankruptcy type of money. And he's paid it back already. But he also bought those. He bought say 50 car and say about 20 cards. He sold 15 of them to pay off the loan and kept five. So it really depends what your plan is. And I think, I think Brian the high pop professor went about in a, in an ultra responsible way. Mickey Minto says treat it like a hobby until you're on track financially. I think that's really good advice right there. Mickey. Mental. I think that that really distills it down to one nice simple set. Let's get nods from the panel. Am I right? Is this a really good way to look at it? Guys, we're getting agreements, okay? Jeremy from California, his lazy shock out. The best advice of the night. Jim Sholey says Jay Lee dislikes the SGC tux, but he's still our friend. I'm glad because I do dislike it. Tony here says, I think if you want investing advice for cards, the only person to ask is, is Jeff Wilson. Skeppy said, if you have a smart wife, just ask her if you can use or borrow retirement money. If she says no, then you know, but you might just punch in the throat. So be ready, Tim. Tim here says, who needs a 401k? We got sports cards. What up, Tim? Desert Shield sniper says at the end it's all about discipline. I don't smoke, I don't drive fancy cars or have nice watches. But I have a thirteen thousand dollar Mickey and a couple of other cards that people will think I'm crazy for buying. I want to just say one thing about that comment, which is that I love the comment from Desert Shield sniper here because that's like, that's like me, you know, I don't drive a nice car. I. My car is 13 years old and I was saying to someone just the other day, I'm gonna drive it into the ground just like the sneakers I was wearing when I was talking to this person the other day. Like I would rather put money into cardboard than into a car. So really comes down to priorities as well. Right? Where are you spending your discretionary money or non discretionary? Brad Helston says cards might be a solid return now, but will it last. Chris C says, what you did with the Joe Jackson was smart. You use cars you already had to. You already had to acquire a grail. Many would have taken out loans. I'm happy with my move. Desert Desert Shield sniper says, why can't a collector treat cards as a hobby and an investment, which I think they can and I do. He goes on to say, people buy and live in homes and make money from it as well. I think the problem is what we see at card shows where people are ripping tcg. Vintage collector says the hidden advantage of collectibles over traditional investments. People don't pay taxes. Some people don't, but many do. Brad Helson says, guys, I went to a card show today and the majority of collectors and dealers were younger than me and I'm 52. Younger people have a greater income for sports cars. I, I think he means a greater appetite for sports cards. James here says, I collect like you Jeremy, but on a way lower level. Okay, great, fine. But hey, I like the way you collect rock. Late deck says if you're maxed out on credit cards, just get another credit card. He's being facetious. Carl from Oz says, I've been risk averse for 70 years. I'm not now. I think I'm buying reasonably sensibly and when I'm gone, my kids will do okay. All right, that's good. Good approach. High pop. Professor here says the bigger cards you buy, the more investment minded one should be towards those purchases. Bingo. Like that makes perfect sense. But the bigger the cards are is a relative term. For me, spending a thousand dollars on a card is big money for a lawyer like Josh Adams. You know, it's just, it's nothing. It's like he doesn't care until he spends 25 grand on a card. Desert Shield sniper asked Jeremy, are you collecting Shohei? I have one Shohei card. Vintage oddball says collect My man Celebrini can't do it. Can't do a vintage owlball. I think he's a great player, but too early for me to to invest in Celebrini and he's not my team, so I won't collect them. JT says hi Jeremy. Sophisticated stranger here. Hey, look at that. Welcome to the chat. JT City Life Artist. Glad to see you. Bridgeforth says just by Tom Brady. He says, what about Messi? Oh, two different. Look at that. Two different Bridge force back to back. We have J A Bridgeforth followed by Alex Bridgeforth. Yeah, I think Brady and Messi are both great players to be Put to be thinking of as collecting and investing in. But hey, no, not investment advice, just my thoughts. Mookie says I get pooped before hoage and Josh, come on, need better load management. Mike Double V says sports cards will provide some diversification against typical 401ks and RRSPs, which I think a lot of people are moving towards nowadays. For better, for worse, and for whether or not the chat here approves or not. Vintage Oddball says you didn't have to be a rocket scientist five to ten years ago to collect Babe Ruth cards. Probably never had to be rocket scientists to collect Babe Ruth or Michael Jordan for that matter. Like, how many of us missed the boat on some of these players back when we could have had them for literally pennies on the dollar, like 2% on the dollar? Jeff okay, we're almost done here, guys. Jeff Will says I hate when people say bubble because they're just using their gut as research. Tell me something tangible. Why? Why we're in a bubble? Well, I would push it back to you, Jeff Wills, and say tell us something tangible while we aren't in a bubble. Fact of the matter is, we're always in a bubble. Is the bubble shrinking or is the bubble contracting? We are always in a bubble. And in a way, it's just like, it's like the innings conversation. There are no innings there. There are no there. It's not one game. I think I heard the crossover talk recently about we're. Are we like, into inning one of game two now? Like, it's just, it's a continuous set of innings, guys. Just like baseball. They've been playing baseball since the late 1800s. They're still playing. What inning are they in? What inning is baseball in? There's no innings. Go ahead. David Noak I got one comment to make about that. I think it's like, people want to know, like, franchise mode, like when you go to play mad and like, what inning. It's just like, it just never ends, you know, it's just my opinion on that. Yeah, fair. Fair comment. DPZ Dennis Ender says 0708 tops Chrome football refractors are a terrific value and way to collect some great players without breaking the bank. There's some. There's a nice comment. Some advice on how to collect players that aren't breaking back. David Chase do you need to. Do you need to roll on us? Okay, just. I have to roll. Good. Nice meeting you. Bye, guys. Thanks, buddy. All right, let him go. He's on vacation. Curmudgeon says I Thought David said he has five cards. This is you, Novak. Now, all the talk about late 90s cards. So does he have an extensive PC or just five cards? So right now I do have five cards. I've consolidated like everything on my IG page. I've consolidated into these cards just over time. Just trading up, doing trades within myself where I just add like take cards, card capital, add money from work and then just try to like level up on my own and stuff. Good stuff. Thank you for answering the question. Rock Latex says Quiet, Joshua, you're ruining the Hunt. Which is my new exclusive content on the Fanatics app, which is part of. You know what the you don't, you haven't, I haven't told you about that yet. You haven't heard about it. Josh also didn't know that SGC was purchased by collectors until just a couple weeks ago. But the Hunt is the show I'm doing exclusively on the Fanatics platform. Josh. So what Rock Latex is saying is, hey, Josh Adams is coming on to Sports Cards Live, which is a sponsor, if you will, of, of sorry, on which is who has Fanatics as a sponsor. And you're, you're coming on and talking negatively about Michael. By the way. You're allowed to come on the sports card draw live and share your opinions about Michael Rubin. My involvement doing condom has nothing to do with what is said here about, about opinions about how he's handling the business over there. We have free speech over here regardless of, of the, the logos you see up there on the marquee, which we'll change back to the other one shortly here. Okay, that was that comment. Skeppy says Josh Adams, Jeff Bezos has been terrible for my wallet and I still use Amazon and I don't know, just a fun, I think it's tongue in cheap. Yeah. Situational adventure says I have grown to enjoy Josh and his yang to the others. Yin all the regulars make this show great. I gotta take that as a heavy compliment because I am very proud of the, the lineup we have here of regulars and I, I thank them regularly for making the show what it is. So thank you to all the regulars we have here on scl. Skeppy says the people chirping about the hobby being too expensive also bash $2, $5 and $10 cards. Doesn't quite make sense. Yeah, Skeppy, I, I, I can't disagree with that comment. I think that people do do that and that's just, that's just the nature of the Internet. That's just how the Internet rolls. Dan Brown says, like it or not, fanatics gives the market more confidence. Mookie says we all know David Chase is largely responsible for the runaway hobby growth. Too bad he's gone for the comment. DPZ says this is a good one. Taking stock with Jeremy Lee and dpz, the hobby show during the dip of the hobby. Yeah, we did a show for about. And we did about 12 episodes or so and then we stopped. But now you can find DPZ on a weekly show. I believe it's weekly with Dustin over on Sports Card Dad. Stephen Lane says a strike will not affect vintage. It will affect active players because the value of their cards is dependent upon performance. There's no performance in a strike. Well said, Stephen Lane. And I think to Josh's question earlier about what happens if there's a strike, I think the vintage collectors continue on, no problem. It's the guy, it's the. The modern collectors who are going to have more of an issue with it. Welcome, everyone. Please welcome Mike Petty to the chat tonight. Mike Petty has entered the chat. Skeppy here says, I have a question for Chris tonight. Define the term big card. What does that mean to you? And describe how that might mean many different things. All right, we'll stop there. We will allow Chris, if you don't mind, to take Skeppy's question. Yeah, fun question from Skeppy. And you know, personally, I try to avoid using language like that. I'm not perfect at it. You can, like, one of my, one of my hobby agendas is to challenge us as collectors to, like, avoid using words like best and big and instead say what we mean more precisely? Like, if I say a card is the best card, what do I mean by that? Do I mean that it has the highest public sale and record of any of the cards in the category that I'm saying it's the best of. Or does it mean that it's the rarest? Or does it mean that it's the earliest or it's the first? Or does it mean that it comes from a very. A brand that I like a lot or. And I would apply the same thing to biggest. What is the biggest card? You know, is it. And. And to who? From whose perspective? Like, a card that really big to me might be small, tiny to somebody else? So, you know, it's like it's biggest. Biggest what? Like, what is biggest modifying? What is big modifying? Is it the biggest value card? Is it the biggest historically significant card? And what do you. How do you assess Historical significance. I, you know, speaking of precisionist, Jeremy, when it comes to language, I really, I want to be a precisionist. Okay, you can be a precisionist, Chris. And I would say you, you know what, you have precisionist tendencies in you. You are just think of the word itself. You are very precise about every card you buy. You take a lot of time and care. And you, you, you probably approach the acquisition of a sports card in, in more detail than a fund manager approaches a new potential equity to add to their portfolio. Right? Like, I think so, yeah, you're a precisionist, Chris. But maybe it made me. It may not be your dominant archetype, but you definitely have precisionist running through your blood. Yeah, I think so. What do you guys think? What, what is. To Skeppy's question, what is. What's a big card to you? It's. It's got to be. Go ahead, Josh. I mean, when people use these terms, I like, I agree with Chris on this saying best Me, when people say best, they mean most expensive. That's all they mean. Because if you press them, they say, look what we're in for. Because, you know, there are some people that don't have any critical thinking and just say the price is a scoreboard, and they don't think anything past that. So the other example, when you say biggest also means the most expensive. The same people will say that biggest just means most expensive to them. For me, big. I mean, that's what I mean. Big. For me, a big card is probably a card at a certain dollar value where it's like, it's a lot of money. That's what I think. I do, too. I think we. I think when. When. When we. When we use the term biggest, we, it comes down to price. It comes down to value, what you have to pay to get it, what it sold for most recently. But that term, that term is relative to every person. Just like we all have different marginal income tax rates because very few people make the exact same amount of money. Although, sure they do. It's a numbers game. But point being for, for me, a big card is going to be different than what a big card is for somebody who just graduated from college and has, you know, 50k in student loans, whatever. Everyone who's in a different financial position has a diff. Should, I believe, should have a different definition of what a big card is. So for me, a big card is basically a million bucks. To me, that's a big car. I mean, I'm just kidding. For me, a big, I will say for me, a big card is probably five grand. Anything below five grand and even, like, like even 2500, even a thousand bucks is significant. But when I think of a big card, like, oh, that's a big one, you know, that's like, that's well into my threshold for significance is that's a big card. So for me right now, significant money on a card is like 500 bucks. That's where I start to think about the, the, the, the, the family implications. $500 is significant to me, a big card. I'm like, okay, five grand. I'm gonna do Chris Hoage level of due diligence on that card before I, before I pull the trigger in most cases. So. But it's relative, right? How about you, David Novak? That's great. I really enjoy all those responses. In addition, I would say it all has to do with tenure and you're in the hobby, like how long you've been in the hobby. And to me, best card should be a top card in the catalog. Like a top, let's call it 10% of that said players catalog. That would be one of the best cards in my opinion. And I think biggest card should be based, what a big card should be based upon your paycheck. Like I would say like a percentage, whether that's 25 of a paycheck or 50 of a paycheck. And that's going to be different for everybody. And also I think a big card is considered to be a big card based upon what you already have in your collection. Like if you get like, let's just say a thousand dollar card, but all your other cards are, let's just say 10k and up, for example, just for the sake of argument that one card, even though it's a great card, it might not fit with the other ones, but it could be a significant card to somebody else. But I think it also has to come down to hobby tenure, like where your collection is, where your knowledge is your skill. Because I think the hobby, you don't need a lot of money to achieve great things in the hobby. I think you can get a lot of good cards with skill and in addition some money as well. But I just think the skill, the knowledge and the understanding of what you're buying has a lot to do with what a card is in terms of like the size, like if it's a big card or not. I'm really glad, I'm really glad, David, that you brought it back away from just, just looking at dollars and actually quantified like the percentage of a player's catalog. That would be big. You said 10. I think it'll be different. I think that's actually too high of a number. Most players have so many lower end cards. I think it's probably a lower number. But whatever you just off top of your head, I'm glad you brought it back to that and just didn't resort to price because now there's a obviously there's a very strong correlation between price and top of the top of the mountain there, so. But but a good angle to take there. Just a couple more comments. Thank you for the question from Skeppy on that one. Alex one of the Bridge four says I'm a nostalgic. My brother J A is a builder. Good to know. Well, love having the family in the chat. Curmudgeon here says old money is stable and consistent, not sexy to most and most can't do it. Old shoes, old cars, old house, old wife. Smart approach. Okay, BW says Josh lights 80 cigars with 500 cards. See? I'm so glad that the chat is really getting to know Josh Adams through his appearances here on Sports Cards Live every week for the past several months. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the Sports Cards Live community. Don't forget to like subscribe and most of all, keep collecting more great content to come. Sports cars is a lifestyle.