Gr8 Sportcards Logan Harris On Scaling Your Business Season 6 Ep. 5

Hello, and welcome to the Ball Card Show, the eSports podcast for the eSports Collector. I'm Jason Otero, and I'm Gary LeMaster. Season six, episode five in 2026, coming off of a very, very busy weekend. My gosh, I was exhausted Sunday night. I don't know about you, but I was so tired, and I put my eBay store in away mode last week to give myself that cushion with the eBay standard envelope. I did a video, you know, that last year talking about that to just try to avoid some more of those claims, and people were still shopping, so I got done. We had the Greeny show, the Ohio State show, the Fairgrounds fantastic show. Gary and I were blown away. It was really good. Yeah. We heard some people talking about, there's a lot of TCG and this and that. I was happy as could be. It seemed like if you had sports cards that people wanted and they were priced reasonably, it was going to be a good show for you. Traffic was pretty steady all throughout, and then Grove City Card Fest. My gosh, that's the busiest space that I've been in since Ship Shawana before it expanded. It was crazy. I think it was just as busy Saturday at the Ohio State show. Sure. It was just laid out with a lot more space between the aisles. We get to Grove City, and it was such a cluster at the beginning because everybody was wanting to talk to Ryan and sell stuff to Ryan. It was bunched up. It was right there. Yeah. It was just like people finally getting through that. We're like, oh. Then it was just, we got 14, 15 deep at one point. There was no break. It was just nuts. Brad stopped by to check on how it was going. We didn't have time to talk. We had two or three rows deep at the table. He looked at me and waved, and we jokingly called Brad the mayor because he is always out shaking hands and talking to people. He just looks at me and goes, can't be the mayor today. Nobody has time to talk to me. They just kept on walking. Really fun show. You and I both had some really fun buying, too. A lot of stuff walked up. Listeners came up for conversations, pictures, all that kind of fun stuff, and that was a lot of fun. Yeah, it was a good time. People from TikTok that said they were going to stop by and say, hey, did, Thomas Family Cards is one, and his son came over and negotiated. He's a tough one. He's a tough negotiator, but freed up some cash and got himself a rookie one-on-one Justin Fields. I thought that was cool. He was really excited about that. So anyway, yeah, great show, and then Monday shipping all day long eBay, all day. When I say all day, I mean all day. I sold so much over the weekend that all I did Monday was go out and buy, and then I came home and I didn't touch it, which for me is... You got to be really tired not to dig through your stuff. Because once I buy stuff, I look forward to sitting down, getting it all priced out, seeing where I'm at, and I didn't touch it until the next day. I was just fried. Yeah. Busy week. A lot of fun. Great shows. Grove City Card Fest and the Ohio State show that Greeny did, those will be absolutely shows that we will be at in the future. Ship Shawanda is right around the corner, a little over a month, a month and two or three days. Yeah, it's less than a month. March 7th. Yeah, it's right up. February is only 28 days long. I know, but I still got you on that. That's fair. That you're wrong, and I'm right. Either way, it's creeping up on us. Xenia this weekend, Nashville at the end of the month. We're going to be some traveling boys over the next month. Got a local show early March on Sunday in Circleville too. We're hitting a little bit of everything over the next several weeks, but you know what else happened last week, Gary? What happened last week, Jason? The gym rate report dropped. Oh, yeah. Quick reminder to everybody before we get into the weeds on this, Gary and I have a running wager with Jeff Wilson, the Jeff Wilson, as you're all aware, that we believe Beckett will continue to tank from the November date of submissions. By April, we're going to find out if we are up or down from that number. If we are correct that the numbers are in fact down, that Collectors has not really invested to the point of immediate growth, Jeff has to do an unfiltered interview with us. We have to wear Cards HQ merch, and he added in that he will be joining us on the podcast just to gloat that we lost. So Gary, I would love to have perfect news. The news is not perfect for us. It's not perfect, but it's not bad for us. So here's where we started at in November, and we're only measuring sports cards. And then once we talk about this, I do want to talk about the overall trend I saw on the gym rate report this month, which is very interesting. In November, Beckett graded 35,000 sports cards. In December, they graded 18,000 sports cards, which was almost a 50% drop. Now that did climb back up some in January. We climbed back to 25,000. So we're still 10,000. That's a good jump. It's a good jump, but we're still down 30%, 35% from when the bet started. We'll see where it lands. The little jump in January was nice, but here was what was really interesting. If you look at that gym rate report, across the board, PSA, still far and away the leader in overall volume, they were down about 3% or 4% month over month across the board, sports and non-sports. And every single other grader that gym rate tracks was up. I think the lowest somebody was up was 6% and the highest was like 30%. Interesting. So PSA is down a little bit. I think that that can be attributed to people don't want a six month wait for their cards. This did happen. The last time we saw this trend was whenever that turnaround time was ridiculous during COVID, right? Yeah. And two or three companies had an opportunity to really do something. And they did. Well, they did. SGC was the one who really made the push. HGA could have been, but it was so badly run that it was just like, well, they had massive, massive issues ethically and all kinds of, oh yeah, it was, it was very badly run, but they had a window where there was a lot of hype behind them. Even tag had a big jump and everybody like glazes tag. I don't know why they grade like 5,000 cards a month. I think FCG grades more than tag does. Yeah. So you had a, you had a mid or high grade CGC vintage slab. Yeah. It looked good. It was a bench rookie. I'm going to say this. That's the clearest casing that exists when it comes to looking at the card. It looked nice in that slab, but nobody's paying vintage is a little more of a difference maker on it. I got like almost 90% of what PSA sixes do. So better as well as SGC is doing for the most part. Yeah. Again, vintage is weird. You get to mid high grades presentation is going to have a lot to do with it. You know, the buyers think a little differently about that. So anyway, but yeah, that's, that's coming up. So Jeff, you know, took a stride forward on this one. It might come down to the wire and at the end of the day, still, the reminder is we don't have a whole lot of confidence in what collectors is doing, but we sure would love for there to be alternative options to grading that have some liquidity that have a reasonable turnaround time and have a reputation for being consistent. That would be totally up to the market. Yep. That's not up to them. Right. But it's up to the market. If that happens and we lose, which that would be quite the loss. It'll still be, still be good to go. So yeah. Um, do you want to, you know what, I, I know what I want to do. What do you want to do? I want to kick things up to Delaware, Ohio, Keith at new heart cards with shop talk, and he's touching on something that, uh, was pretty big news in the last week. Hi, this is Keith at new heart cards and this is shop talk. There was a lot of, a lot of, uh, topics that we were thinking about discussing this week, but it kind of landed on one that's been a, but it kind of at the forefront of the hobby here. And this was the, uh, the leaked documents, uh, from fanatics about, uh, their key stakeholders like shop shop owners and, um, breakers. So, um, let's just kind of talk about that for a second. Supposedly there was revenue numbers that were coming out. There were leaked, um, secret meetings and revenue sharing and that sort of thing. So, you know, as a shop owner, you see that and it kind of gets your, you know, get your goat up a little bit. You're like, ah, you know, that's, that's, that's not something that we like to do because it is concerning. We have to provide certain numbers to fanatics under the guise that that, that information will help us with our allocation and our marketing numbers and that sort of thing. So, you know, why you have that at the forefront, you still have to remember, you know what we set up at the green sports card show this past Saturday, the Ohio state card show. We had a blast. We don't do that very often. We're open here seven days a week. So we don't do a whole lot of shows besides like the national and Philly and some of those other ones. So, um, it was great. We, uh, it was, it was well attended. There was a ton of people there. It was split between sports cards and TCG. And we met a lot of people. We sold a ton of cards and we bought some stuff. We traded for stuff. We met a lot of first time customers as well. So it was a really great experience for us. So, you know, again, we can look at those negativity, you know, all the comments and hundreds of comments about, um, you know, the, the leaked documents and the information. I can't believe backyard did $250 million, you know, selling pictures of men last year. You know, that's all great and good, but really we open the doors every day because we love what we do. You know, we love selling sports cards. We love buying sports cards. We love the hobby. We love sports. You know, there's always sports on in the shop. So, you know, we, we feel like this is like a barbershop kind of atmosphere and I think card shows are the same thing. You know, I see a lot of people not talking about cards when they're here. They just like the camaraderie, you know, and the, and the, and the, the feel, you know, of what it's like. So, you know, stay away from the noise, stay, stay away from the background noise and really believe in what you're doing, um, in any industry, in any business that you're doing. So, uh, again, if you have any questions or want us to land on a topic, please talk to Gary or Jason, send us a message and we'll be sure to cover it. So again, this has been Keith and this is Shop Talk. All right. You heard it there. Focus on what you love because the news cycle is just going to keep cranking out stories. I think the dynamic is really interesting between fanatics and the shop owners with all the changes that are happening. Some people are very forward and talking about it. Some people are hesitant. Some people make it their whole world. And there's people like Keith that are like, yeah, there's some things I like, some things I don't like, but I got to keep plugging away here regardless. I got a community that, that, you know, scouting on their local card shop. So just adapt, always appreciate his perspective and the experience as somebody that's had a shop for five minutes, right? This is somebody that's seen the different licenses change, the different dynamics, the different expectations, distribution and all that. As always, just like Keith said, if you ever have a question for a shop owner, we're trying to give you access that isn't normally available in the content space. So give us questions that you have for Keith. If he can't answer it, we'll just tell you he's got to stay away from that one. But there's not a whole lot that would fit in that category. So feel free to send those questions in. Time for what has become one of our favorite segments, according to our listeners, a little show and tell. We each grabbed three cards that we picked up over the weekend that we bought at. Did you buy all these at shows or at different spots? No, these are just little, I had hardly anything left from shows this week and I literally just got destroyed. So this is some stuff I bought early this week. I think all of these ended up being Sunday shows because of a similar situation for me. You were, you were me first. I can't remember. It doesn't matter. You go ahead. You're ready. Cause my stuff is weird and lower end, but it's cool. All right. So we're going to start off with a kind of staple vintage football card at 1959, Jim Brown in a Beckett five, Jimmy, uh, Jim Brown is tough to buy with margin in Ohio for the most part, because when it comes to the Ohio football space and vintage, like he's kind of the legend that everybody's everybody's chasing there. Um, but this one presented really well. The Beckett slab does not bother me when we're talking, when we get into the fifties and we're talking mid grade, that's not a pause for me. I'm not an exclusively vintage dealer that Beckett I'm happy with. Uh, I don't mind too much. Uh, what do you have for your first one, Gary? My first one's just super cool. You don't see these with the packaging very often. So I'll show the packaging first. It's the old school, they called it digital replays by movie vision. And I found the Barry Sanders with the packaging and you guys can actually, we tested this. You can see like, it's like a full, like a full one and a half second clip of Barry Sanders running. It's not your typical sports flicks type card. It's not super valuable. It's like a 25 to $40 piece, whatever you see it somewhere, but you never see it with the packaging. So you set that out on your office desk or, you know, on your shelf, it's got some eye appeal to it. That's a cool one. Uh, up next for me, the first time I've ever done this and you know, historically I've been like, this is kind of stupid because if the card itself can't carry the value, it shouldn't need extra help. Well times have changed. Obviously the market is down on this particular metal, so it's not a bad time to grab it. But I finally grabbed one of these silver bar cards out of eminence. This is Vince Carter. It's a number two, three, no direct comps on it. There are some auto versions that go for a lot. It's got an ounce of silver. I'm considering this too, Gary, I'm already in this space. Can I grab one of those a month of a player that I think will like carry beyond the highs and lows and just have some of that sitting around? It's probably not a bad play. No, I mean, I've been buying a couple ounces of silver a week all year this year, so I'm planning on doing that every single week for the rest of the year and see what it looks like at the end of the season. I die and the kids just put it all in a burn barrel to smelt it down. I don't want to sell all this, but we can smelt this, right? My next one is super cool. I have no idea what it's worth because it's never sold. But you remember the old upper deck finite set? That's the McNair numbered to 100. No recorded sales of the card ever. And I love having stuff like that. This will be coming to a Whatnot stream this week. Nice. Nice. Speaking of Whatnot, I just told you a little bit ago. I'm trying to get pre-bid set up. So if people want to look, we'll probably start seeing us integrate that into all of shows at some level, but I know there's sometimes you, those of you listening, want to be a part of a show and you can't make it to that one and you saw a card we were running, you really wanted it, you'll have a chance now to go in and pre-bid, the nice thing is you just set your bid and leave and if you win it, you win it, but that'll be a little commercial there for everybody. My turn, right? Yep, your turn. Leaf product, don't at me, Jack Nicholas and Nick Price cut Auto 101. This is out of the Leaf Executive Collection. It's framed in really nice, it's in a little slab, Jack Nicholas autos are cool. There has been a little more love to some of those golf autos lately as people are speculating about what will happen with some of those licensed products. That's actually a cool set, they did some really cool, I had, do you remember, I had the, who was the, John Wooden, I had the John Wooden, it was dual with John Wooden and an NBA legendary coach, old school 70s guy, I forget, Jack, I don't know, he was the, he coached the Lakers for that one season before everything went sideways, anyhow, it was really cool from that set. Oh my gosh, I forgot one. What? The 101. The 101, well you dig, I'm going to show my last one while you look for it, you got it? Go ahead, you got yours ready, go ahead. Oh yeah. 11 icons, Pete Alonso, one of one, majestic patch. That's gross. Just a nasty, nasty card. Last one for me, again, on the theme of just weird, cool stuff, 2001 Pacific Aurora, on card, Torello on his auto. Cool. Yeah, they're not numbered, but early on card, Hall of Fame auto, pretty cool. That's sweet. That was my three. Nothing crazy this week, nothing big, just fun. Hey, why don't you set up our guest that's coming in today, Gary? Yeah, we have Logan Harris from Great Sports Cards joining us today. It's going to be a lot of fun because Logan started, I'm wanting to say he first got into the space from an employment standpoint back in 2019, so he's ridden the COVID wave. He's a little younger than Jason and I, but he's really built something awesome between their show set up and then they've built a really thriving whatnot operation as well, so we want to talk to Logan about his journey, some of the things that have been successful for them. Hopefully you guys can pull some tips out of it, but yeah, joining us now, Logan Harris from Great Sports Cards. We are joined, as I said, by Logan Harris from Great Sports Cards. Logan, I've known for several years. We appreciate you being here, Logan. Thanks for joining the Ball Card Show. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me. Now, the first time I met you, you were working at Game Time Collectibles down in Circleville, Ohio for Bill and Bobby and Rob, our Central Ohio listeners. Most of you know who those guys are and you were what, a sophomore or junior in college at that point? Sophomore, yes. Okay. I remember walking into the shop. We lived in Circleville forever and I walked into, I've known Bill forever and I said, who is this kid? You hired somebody? The idea of Bill or Bobby actually hiring somebody was so foreign to me that either one of them were going to do that, that it took me a minute. But yeah, that was the first time I met you and then I know you left there and went and worked for Ryan at his shop for a while. I saw you there a few times, but I think the next time I actually radared was one of the first times you had ever set up at Hilliard and you were right inside the door, right on that corner and it was either your second or third show. You hadn't been doing it very long because I remember you had one little pop-up banner and you had one or two showcases and I think probably the biggest cards you had in there was a $400 or $500 card. We got to talk a little bit. You were like, yeah, I'm starting to do this. My dad may come along at some point. I don't know. I'm still working at the shop, but I kind of want to do my thing and here we are five and a half years later and great is a recognizable known name in the hobby that sponsors a lot of shows that is going to be at just about all the big shows in the Midwest and even into Dallas. It's been really cool to watch as you grow. Yeah. Thank you very much. It's funny that you bring up like the start and everything because I remember in college we were chasing retail and everything and I would always run in to Walmart's and then my most memorable one is the prison basketball Lamello and Tyrese Halliburton and they just putting out a hanger boxes and Gary walked in and he's like, you taking all of them? I said, I was literally checking out like, I'm sorry, Gary. He's like, hey, you got here first and it was funny because we went back and ripped all of those. And what's funny is the Logan that works for us now, Logan Hill was that was his first time like really getting back into cards. So and yeah, and he ended up getting the itch from that. So yeah, it it those it's it's crazy. We talk about those COVID days as if they were forever ago and in some ways they were, but man, it was something you would buy something in a Facebook sale on Tuesday. By the time it got to you on Saturday, you could triple it and stick it in your showcase and it would sell that weekend. It was Gary. I'm going to tell on you because my wife's still mad at you about the release of mosaic. So mosaic basketball drop. He says, listen, this was Zion year. Gary calls, he goes, listen, I know you're just getting into this and I know you don't buy a lot of wax, but there's this new product and panini is saying that it's shorter printed than anything they've ever did say that it told us. So he's like, I'm hitting every Meyer wall, but this is back before they were like putting restrictions on it. And I said, cool, if you get a lot, let me buy like five or 10 off of you. And he said, sure. He gets like 40 and I shoot him a text. How'd it go? And I know exactly what that he ripped through everyone. I didn't even get a taste. I'm sure base rookies were doing 25 bucks. So yeah, you got to do what you got to do. That was the days. So like, I know how you kind of got back into things when in that process. When did you decide, Hey, this is how I want to pay the bills. Not just have some fun with and collect. This is what I want to do. So it's always been a dream of mine to open up a shop at some point in my lifetime. But did I really know how that was going to work out? No, I didn't know the fundamentals of it. I didn't know the back of it and everything. So something I always wanted to do. But when we got sent home from school during COVID, I just came off of elbow surgery and I didn't there. I couldn't work. I couldn't really do anything. So I had all this stuff from like 2005 to 2017, just chilling under my bed. Not a bad run. No, not a bad little 12 year run when we got sent home. This is when like Deshaun Watson's silver prisms were doing like 150 bucks and through lock based prisms were doing 40, 50 bucks and everything. And I'm just pulling 10, 20, five of them just out and throwing them on eBay and them getting like snap clicked because I'm the cheapest one on eBay because I'm just getting rid of them. And then I looked at my wife and I'm like, I wonder if this is something I could really, really do. And then next thing you know, we like going into 2021, 2022 ish, I really started hitting it hard to where. So my mom is, God bless her, love her to death. She's a really weird about like finances. So when I went to college, she was like, I had access to my bank account. She had access to everything. Just making sure like, all right, he's got enough to pay his rent. He's got enough to get gas. He's got enough to get food, stuff like that. And at one point she saw all this money coming in and coming out, coming in and coming out. She called me one day. Are you selling drugs, Logan? Exactly. I'm literally making a lunch meat sandwich and I call and I'm like, she's like, Hey, bub. I'm like, Hey mom, what's going on? She's like, be honest with me, bub. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And she's just crying. And next thing you know, I hear is, are you selling drugs? On eBay? Yeah, I'm like, what are you talking about? And then I'm like, no mom, I'm not. And she hangs up and calls my dad. My dad's like, Jen, he's selling sports cards. She said, no way he can make this much money selling sports cards. There's no way. And it's kind of crazy how it is now because like, my dad's a full-time employee. My sister's a full-time employee. Hill is a full-time employee. It's just kind of crazy how, like, she thought it was one thing when it was completely, completely opposite. If you could go back in time, you'd say, yeah, if you go back in time, you'd say, there's a lot of things to be concerned about with this business, mom, but that's not plenty of things. Yeah. Let's look at, let's take a look at those that early year or two. Okay. Because I think, first off, I don't know if we've addressed it and Gary, shame on you for not announcing it properly. But you have two collegiate athletes in this, in this interview, both from Ohio Christian University Baseball. Now, one of us is old enough that he was one of the coaches of Logan's coach and the other is there. But we are guys that could have gone pro if we wanted to. And I just want to let that be known that we played an option. Well, clearly Logan didn't want to. I didn't want to. Here we are. No, I didn't throw hard enough. Oh, well, there's that too. You got to just Wakefield that just all nooks, nothing but nooks at it. But let's jump into that first couple of years. Most people, when they find our podcast, right, are new to the space. We kind of try to be a little more of like educational. Here's what it's like to try to do this, to make money. And they're in this chaotic season. I remember, I mean, I feel like the chaos is still here, but it is getting a little more routine now. What do you remember when you went from this being a side hustle to like treating it as a business? If you had to pick a couple of memories or a couple of things that you were like, this has to change immediately. What do you remember about that season of growth where it was like becoming a thing? The biggest thing that I can tell everybody is the money doesn't matter at the start. It's the relationships that you build. And that's the biggest thing that I started and realized, like, if I really want to turn this into a true business aspect, you're not going to make a ton of money at the beginning or ever at times. But you're going to build the relationships that last a long time. I know the first person I ever did a deal with, his name's Ben Hartwig. He's from the central Ohio area here in Columbus. And I just did another deal with him this past weekend at the Greenies Ohio State Card Show. And it's just crazy. It were six, seven years later now, and I'm still doing deals with the guy I first bought cards off of. And it's something that I built a strong relationship with from the beginning. And it's matured all the way to this. It's not always about money. It's about the people for sure. Yeah. Absolutely. That's really, that's really good. Rabbit Trail, though, you just talked about Greenies show. And I'm saying this because you already dropped your video on it. You bought a big card. Yeah, that was that was kind of crazy. There was multiple, multiple Wimbies that walked up to the table that were five figures plus, you know, that just randomly were there. And it's kind of shocking how it like ended up playing out. Yeah. It looked like it was a little dicey for a minute. Is that if you're watching this, you haven't seen Logan's video. Go watch Logan's video. But it's the flagship black, true black. Yeah. Wimby first license. First license. That's one of one Wimby card. Yeah. And it's it's cool, too, because obviously, like if you really think about it, it's second year tops for Curry. But like, it's truly the first year license tops for a lot of players. Yeah. And Wimby, obviously, probably being the fifth biggest name out of the entire set. Yeah, that's a great one. It was a big card. I had heard a little rumbling that there was something going on over there, but I didn't even know what card it was. So I saw your video yesterday. So I was like, OK, there you go. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. Like a lot of people were like talking about it and they came up to the table and they're like, hey, do you hear there's this like really crazy one on one tops Wimby walking around and it's sitting in one of my Zion is behind the table. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I know all the more anyhow, Jason. Go ahead. That was just a little rabbit trail. That's fine. So I wanted to bring up because it's really cool. So if you're out there and you're looking for that card, Logan has it. I don't know if he wants to sell it anytime soon, but he does have it. Not sure yet. Did I see you picked up a Myles Garrett shield, too? I did it. That was a sweet card. I saw that as well. Grove City Card Fest. Grove City Card Fest. That was a cool card. Crazy two day weekend. Yeah. Crazy two day weekend. Yeah. It was it was really busy for us. Well, it was a good it was a good weekend. We're exhausted. Very. All right. Your business is growing. You're starting to formalize this here in a second. I want to hear about that family dynamic, because you do see that happen in this space as it scales. I think there's a little bit of familiarity. Maybe we just go there now. Your business grows and we hear a lot of times as it scales that family gets involved. Sometimes that works out really well. Sometimes that's tough for people. What's it like working with family? So one hundred percent, it's super, super tough at times because you have to at times take the. the family aspect completely out of it. Um, but like me and my sister were always super, super close growing up. Um, my dad was actually my best man in my wedding. So it was always the goal of mine to bring those two on and everything, because I knew I could one, trust them with anything and to just have people that I know are with me that will make this so much more enjoyable. Because I mean, I've heard it from my dad consistently. It's not, it's not, there's nothing any better than seeing your kid succeed in something that they're truly passionate about, but it's also, there's not a lot better than sharing it with the people that you love either, right. Yeah. And then I couldn't hire a lot of my family because they're all nurses and stuff like that. I can't afford that. Were you kind of nervous when you were going to ask them? Like, did you, or was it something that this was kind of on the radar? If it's possible, this is where this is heading or so before this even started, my dad like was knew this was going to happen. I never thought I was going to bring my sister on. Um, but my dad, it was 100% like, like it's going to happen at some point, but, um, my sister, it always made sense in the long run for like a content purpose. And like, because she's just super smart with technology. Yeah. This is the opposite of Gary and I, right? I'm not, I'm not good with it either. And then you rounded out your team with another Logan, your friend, Logan Hill, uh, who we love as well. And it's confusing sometimes. Cause I'm never sure which Logan I'm talking to, unless you're standing in front of me. So. Yeah, we played, uh, we, we played college baseball together at OCU. So just one of my best friends and everything. So if you don't play baseball at OCU, what are you doing with your life is what we're trying to say. Exactly. That's basically, all right. I know that with Logan Hill, I saw that you guys had this whatnot falling. We've been able, we got, we started paying attention to live selling right. As you guys were catapulting, like your growth was becoming, it was literally just like an explosive level of growth that was happening. And I think there were a lot of card guys that in 2025, they were like, okay, live selling isn't going anywhere. It's for real. And it's a very viable option for laying a foundation for my business. Um, talk to us about you being a somewhat early adopter, um, of that live selling and then the, like how much of your time is spent as a business on whatnot every week? Um, so we're actually live right now, which is funny that we're talking about it. Um, I mean, we're live at least two times a week for five, six hours plus. Um, so a long, long time has spent running cards on auction for, on whatnot and everything. Um, the reason why it made so much sense for us is we saw how much business was moving to online. I mean, malls are shutting down. It seems left and right nowadays. Um, card shops are at times having less foot traffic here and there now, and you're not getting as much product now with fanatics and tops and panini because they're limiting all access to it and moving more online. So we saw that and we saw that trend and we were like, it would really make so much sense for us to go online. And at the time we thought it was eBay and it just, at times it would take so long for cards to move and we really wanted to buy at scale. So we were like, how could we sell five, 600 plus cards in five, six hours and whatnot truly presented itself. And we started a year, a little over a year ago, January 17th, um, 2025. And it's just right now, I think we're sitting at 75,000 followers and it's just, it's 75k. Yeah. I think, I think I saw you guys when you were like closing in on 20, would that have been early last year? Yes. Guys, that is, it's really, it's really grown to something substantial. And what's crazy enough is like, here, I'll pull up our, uh, things. We've sold almost 55,000 items and have a five-star review. And we have an average ship time of under a day. Let's go. The metrics are right. It's, it's all about, um, like just treating your customers the right way and really trying to, we, we put so much effort into this and don't get me wrong. We lose our butt at times. Like we ran a Curry Yannis dual auto. That's probably eight, $900 in it at 400 bucks. So, I mean, but you have to give somebody the, the people good cards to really, really catches their attention. And that's something that we really, really try to strive for is the quality and not quantity, even though we're moving quantity. So I want to talk over you, Gary. Yeah, go ahead. I'm going to keep asking questions. I want you to jump into this on a, so on an average week, you guys are, um, at least twice we're on three times, usually one joint show with both of us. And then we each run a solo show, smaller, smaller shows. Yeah. We go 150 auctions max, um, because neither one of our old rear ends has the energy to go for five or six hours. We did that one. It's a grind, dude. I don't know about to just, yeah, a lot of monster, zero sugar, white monster energy. It's a two, two hours or so is about my limit before I'm like, okay. But so on an average week, you guys are selling what? 12, 1500 cards. Yeah. I would say so at minimum a thousand. Yeah. And shipping is, is crazy. So let me ask you this question because this is something that is a common theme among what not sellers that are trying to build, uh, we are further along that path and a lot of people are, but we're nowhere near you. We're closing in on 10,000. Um, we have a five-star rating and that's it, but we're closing in on 10,000. Uh, so we have a long ways to go. We're still learning all the time. One of the things that we see, and I'd love to hear your perspective on it is it feels like almost every stream and whether it's ours or we watch somebody else's about 90 minutes in it hits a brick wall, what's your experience with that and is it worthwhile to push through it and eat it for 20 minutes to get to the other side? Um, so I, there's times to where like we sit there and we watch and it's hit a brick wall, um, to where like, we just try to really push through it. But one thing that I think makes us a little different in that area of hitting that so much is every 50 cards, we drop a hundred dollar plus card that just. We'll run on sudden death, try to keep everybody in and attentive and bring in new people. I mean, so many people are just swiping through shows and then they see a Brian Thomas jr. Downtown running. They're like, Oh gosh, these guys actually run some of this stuff instead of just having it as a picture on their screen to try to get people in. So, um, a lot of, a lot of that's what we really, really try to do. And then we'll drop like random giveaways. Like, um, Hey, if you get us to 500 bookmarks on our next show, we'll drop a blaster giveaway, or if you get us to so many followers, we'll try a hundred bookmarks on our show. What a dream. We'll drop like a PSA, 10 slab or something like that. So we always try to just get people's attention as much as possible and just keep a hold of it. Yeah. Can I jump in here with one? So you mentioned that you always had a dream of having a shop and I think similarly to Gary and I's discussion, which we've had, where we were even looking at lease structures, we almost signed a lease, uh, on a spot in the spring in Columbus and we hit pause because we were seeing a lot of things change. We were seeing a lot of different things with the fanatic directs accounts. Uh, the type of cashflow they were demanding on essentially, if you want to pay to play, you better be ready right now. There's no scaling into it. You need to have the funds right now to buy it when we need you to buy it. Um, and then shops were popping up everywhere. Right. And this is going on and you are growing like crazy. What not's taking off. And if I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, you made a decision to say, Hey, right now, it sounds like that the best decision is not to sign ourselves a lease on a brick and mortar, but it's to have a space where we can really scale whatnot, like talk us through that decision because I'm, I think there are a lot of people that do what Gary and I do that aspire to have a shop and we would hate for them to make a hasty decision. What were some of the things you considered? Correct me if I'm wrong on that story. Uh, but if that's true, what were the things you were considering when you made that choice? Yeah. Um, just more so, like you said, I mean, the whole hobby is about to change completely panini is not going to have any licensed products there. They're literally just going to fall into what I think in an abyss and end up trying to sell because they're not going to have any means to compete with anybody else because they just lost all the licensing. So what really was vital in that decision was how much fanatics is really cutting. Um, product from, I mean, I've heard horror stories, horror stories so far on like what's going on and it really sucks for them. So why do, would I really want to dive in right now when I may not necessarily have the bank roll, because I mean, you're talking about a hundred grand a week is really what they want and you buying products, I can, I wish, but I can't, there's just no way. And then if you don't do it, you're gone. So it's really, really tough. Um, as far as that goes, because there's people that really, really want to open a shop and wax is what people go to shops for. It's not singles. It's not to hang out. It's to buy an open wax. That that's what it's about now. No, there's not really a lot of guys going into shops looking for singles because right now it, all that matters to a lot of people right now in the hobby, in the industry that we're in is, can I make a quick buck? So you're making us feel old, but we agree with everything you're saying. Collectors aren't coming into shops anymore. And why would they, when you can open up an app on your phone and sit there and you don't have to leave your house anymore. Right. So I, we, we actually have started looking more and more into something for that, but it wouldn't be like in the Columbus area. There's just so much around here, unfortunately. Um, but there's nothing in like Dayton. Yeah. I mean, there's Ohio card exchange, but they do a lot of TCG now. There's not really like a big sports card shop. So I think what it really is going to intend to is if you can build the brand, it's just like field of dreams. If you build it, they will come. Yeah, good. Yeah. Keep going. Yeah. You build that brand out. So you decided, all right, now's not the moment. We're going to double down on what, uh, what were the tweaks you made when you made that decision, because it sounds like that was the timeline when, when you basically said no to doing this extra, this big thing, we're going to get really focused here. That sounds like it was right around the time when everything just blew up on whatnot for you. So it was right around, um, found out my, my wife was pregnant. So at some point I was like, well, I can't just sit here and stream in the house anymore because eight o'clock I'm going to scream and it's going to wake up my daughter and we're going to have serious issues then. Um, so we ended up looking into an office space. So we're here in Dublin at, um, rise and they have, we're in a building that has like seven, eight offices, just all lined up in a hallway in this building. And we were like, we're going to really push, um, what not we're really going to push the online right now, because that's what we really need to do to get where we want to go. Yeah. Do you think that you, um, do you think that there were changes in what type of inventory you bought as you were growing? Yes. A hundred percent. Yep. So let's, let's go there a little bit. Let's talk about what are you looking for? Like 50,000 items. You've got some data. Yeah. You've got some information to go off. Maybe what are the things that you avoid that people are surprised that they come up to your table? I got, you know, we hear it all the time. I got so much good whatnot stuff for you. And when it starts like that, we're always like, Oh no, right. What is the stuff that you're like, you know, I, everybody says run it. I kind of avoid this, or these are the factors that I'm looking forward to know, this is the type of stuff we're running base rookies and like base PSA tens, like nobody wants base. Um, you want, you want to find a card that has the best, it has to have eye appeal. If it doesn't have the eye appeal, nobody cares. So like the perfect, perfect card is, um, like a prism white disco. Look at how beautiful, like you shine it around. There's these discos. Look at how beautiful that kind of card looks like it's going to look way better than a Jackson dart based prism, right? Sure. Or an Omari on Hampton based prism because Jackson dart based prisms, everybody's going to really want anyway still, but, um, like you would rather have the cool looking hollow card than a base card. And then you really want nothing. So a lot of people think when it comes to whatnot stuff, it just has to be an okay name. Like Chris Paul. I don't, Chris Paul doesn't sell. I don't know about you guys. I had a super factor one-on-one for like three years. It does, he doesn't sell. Right. So it has to be guys that you know will move. Because if not, you're going to be really upset when you hit start auction. One of those toughest lessons Gary and I had in that first few months as we were starting to get traction, regular buyers, people requesting thing is like we have, you know, the type of stuff we buy. We don't buy super expensive, but there's going to be some weird stuff in there. That's intentional, right? But we would get so attached to the comp of like, guys, don't sleep on this card. You're not going to believe this has three comps at 50. No one cares on whatnot. Like there are people that do, there are other dealers, right? There are other dealers that care about that comp. They do not care about what you say. Yeah. A tough lesson for us has been like, do they really want 20 show Hayes in this 120 card show? Yes. They are not tired of them. Show me all the show Hayes. Yep. If you were a 120 card show and 120 of them were show Hayes and you named it the show Hayes massive run or something, you're going to, nobody's going to get tired of them. Like nobody cares about your Albert pools gold out of. We found out because we had a lot of really cool stuff. Like I have a bunch of those refractors now and I'm like, yeah, they're 20 bucks. And they, they may be cool to me. They don't care. Yeah. So like, that's, that's one thing. Like when you run, you decipher on like what everybody wants. I mean, we're 50,000 items deep. Now we, we have a good idea of what people want and what people want is the new, exciting stuff. Yep. Yeah. So this is hard for us to hear because we're so committed to like the unique rare. And I think when we say unique and rare, we're saying like stuff that you don't found it. And you're like, oh, that's like a $30 card, right? Like a lot of that kind of curry base for these. Like, right. Yeah. The cards never sold before. It's number two, a hundred. There's no sales ever. But Gary and I have to- It's gonna go great dollars on whatnot. Probably, yeah. Probably. Yep. And, and Gary and I have learned what like, you can do just that. You just need to understand that you are depending on a very niche follower base that's continually looking for that kind of stuff. Yes. And on a platform this big, like whatnot, you're talking about marketing with the potential of capturing this. Now, Gary and I are okay with that a little bit to some extent, but I want to jump a little bit more into like the flavor and style of shows next, because I think we are the anti-sudden death, anti-yell, anti-I need this in the chat. Although I have started using that as a tool, I'll be darned if the algorithm doesn't respond to people commenting, you know. So talk to us about that philosophy, because you are a person that I respect. I love your business. Everybody that I know that you have relationships with, like that's where it really stands out when you talk about relationships. But when it comes to the approach, Gary and I have been vocal about, we don't want people screaming. We don't want people selling telecoms. We don't do sudden death, this and that, and this and that. Yeah, so. Give us your elevator pitch on this. And it's okay to be like, what you're doing, isn't going to work at this size or scale, like push back at us. But I want to hear, what do you think maybe we're missing out on? So as you grow, as the following comes, you'll want to change to sudden death, just because you're going to move so many more cards at scale. It's not always about maximizing the dollar at times, when you can maximize the quantity of cards you're moving to where maybe one card goes under comps, but one card maybe goes over. It's just a good fundamental fluctuation that's going to make up for it at the end to where what we decided we wanted to do was it's, do we want to run 150 cards for, or 200, 250 cards for five hours on extended bidding? Or do we want to run 600 cards in six hours on seed and death? Is there a threshold in your mind when of people in your room consistently where the switch to sudden death makes sense? Because I will be honest, the idea of running sudden death with 25 people in the room is terrifying to me. 50 to 60 people. Okay. I would say it because that, right around the 50 to 60 people, you probably have 30 that are actively bidding. If you have 25 people in your room, you may only have 10, 11 people actively bidding. Like right now we're live. We have 150 people right now in the stream. And I guarantee you 60 to 70 are active bidders and the rest are, hey, when you run a no gimme. When's a gimme? Or I'm just here to watch because it's entertaining. Now, I'm not a screamer and neither is Hill. We get loud at times, 100%. But when I think of screaming, I mean like- The debut guys. Hey, don't drop names. I don't have any issue, any issue with what they do. They have their business model and it works for them, but I will not scream. And then, like you said, you guys don't want to drop comps. We drop comps at times because I think people don't understand, like they see like a Steve Young downtown. They're like, oh, that's really, really cool. That Steve Young downtown's like 400 bucks. Yeah. Like, let's just, let's talk about this for a second and then we'll go. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah, let's have this little bit of a conversation before it goes for 50%. Yeah. We do that, we do that a little bit. Yeah. Do people basically pocket watch that? Like, do you get- Like, if you ran 500 cards, do you have cancellation requests because they say, you said there's a comp at 200, but the last one did 100. Like, does that happen? We 100% have, but it's not, it's never a comp issue. It's always like, it's always like, I didn't mean to swipe. Or- I just saw my bill, I didn't mean to do that. My best friend grabbed my phone and started swiping or my son did this and that, or I swiped, but I didn't realize I had, I didn't have the funds for it. Right. What do you mean? Why are you on- You did have the funds. That's why I'm trying to ship this to you. Right. The payment cleared. And so, Whatnot actually penalizes for cancellations. Yes, if you initiate the cancellation, yeah. No, every cancellation. Oh, okay. So, like, if you go to accept a cancellation, it tells you, like, so many cancellations and we'll have to like, do whatever they do. So, we don't accept cancellations. We have show notes that say, bid responsibly and- Yeah, that's what we do too. But like, if you're bidding on a Trevor Lawrence contenders patch and it goes for $1,000 because somebody shill bidded you up, that's different. Yeah. 100% different. But if you bid on a Trevor Lawrence patch and you bid $25 and it's a $20 card and you're upset with us, I'm sorry, I didn't make you bid that much. Right, right. But at the same time, my goal is to sell cards. Absolutely. That's what we're here for. That's what we tell, we're unapologetic about the fact that we are here to make money. Hopefully, you as a buyer are gonna get a good deal too and everybody wins. Yep. That's the goal that we buy right enough that we can't be wrong. Sometimes, we get real close to being wrong though. Yeah. Now, when you guys- When we were trying Mondays and Tuesdays out, that happened a lot to us. Tuesdays were rough. Yeah. Some people do okay, but we found some nights that just didn't work for our people that we have right now. Yeah, that's another thing is we tried everything. Everything, we ran at night, we ran in the midday, we ran in the mornings. And right now, what we found is at one o'clock, our customer basis is there. They like the one to sevens, they like the one to sixes- Okay. And everything, but- Your team likes that too. Yes, because they can get home a lot earlier. Yeah. No. When you guys got into the whatnot side of things, I know we're spending a lot of time here, but we get so many questions about this. So, did you guys go into whatnot with a defined growth strategy? Like, this is how we're gonna gain followers. These are the benchmarks that we wanna hit before we increase inventory levels or average value of the cards we run. Or did you just jump in with both feet, grind it out and figure it out as you went? Jumped in, grinded it out and figured it out as we went. Because a lot of these people have reps and everything. The only person I can talk to at whatnot is this automated voice person, this AI. So, you're not on the 2.9% plan. No, it really ticks me off that I gotta only talk to an AI. Because I have legitimate questions that I want answers to. Like at one point, we were doing mystery packs and I could not get in contact with anybody, but we kept getting banned. I'm like, what am I doing wrong? Tell me, I'll fix it, I'll do it. I have the average, I have the floor, I have the ceiling. All the cards are up here. Like, what am I doing? There's a camera on the packs. Like, nothing's getting messed around. What am I missing? And then it came to the, I finally got in contact with somebody and it was, we just don't want people doing it. I wish I would have known that for- Yeah, before you cost me thousands of dollars shadow banning me. Before now, I'm a year later and I can't get a premiere shot because I'm banned. Or I have these strikes that take a hundred and some days to go away. So, that's always tough. But for the most part, like it was just jumping in, seeing what happens. And like, when you realize like when you can increase inventory and stuff like that, it's just how much, when you grow ultimately. Do you see yourself in the next few years checking out some other live selling platforms in addition? With how much, it really just depends on what happens in the next couple of years. Because with how much money is in what not, I mean, how in the heck did they get Mr. Beast? Yeah. They give away a million dollars. I mean, have you seen- It ain't Mr. Beast giving away a million dollars. Yeah, no. Like, have you seen the rabbit trail that they're on with like some of these like other categories on what not? There's people walking through their living room. This lamp that is plugged in and turned on is for sale. 15 seconds sudden death. Let's go. Like, it's the scale of live selling isn't going anywhere. Like, I still have my eBay store. I'm trying to figure out what to do because at some point you scale yourself into just a bunch of time shipping. That's where I am. I'm at 51,000 listings right now. Shipping's taking too long. I can't keep doing it like this. But live selling, I have immediate feedback. I'm learning in three days how well I bought. Not in three months. I'm learning within three days. Did I buy the right stuff? Did I not? Did I present? Yes, yes. And I think, like to your point, that money now, whether what not's positioning for a sale or whatever, I don't see anybody trying to collectors this thing, right? Like, this thing is trying to throw a lot of money. A lot of money. And I just- They're working towards an IPO. I just don't, I don't see anybody. They were kind of the first to it and they did what they needed to do. I just don't see anybody really taking over. Like, what not and loop came out pretty much simultaneously. Yeah. When's the last time you've heard of anything from loop? Nobody uses loop. I never even use the free credits that I get every year from my PSA membership. You get like 70 bucks a credit, I don't use them. I was presented partnerships for both and I took neither. Yeah. And then I went back and I was like, okay, is this partnership still available? With what not and loop. And it was loop, yeah, we can make something work. What not was too late. Nah, bro, you missed. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, I really did miss it. Yeah. I really messed up. This is a space where you have to be ready to jump on stuff quickly. Immediately. There's not a ton of regulation, which I'm not a fan of a bunch of regulation in a space. There's a lot of debate back and forth about where, but the reality is this, things shift really quickly and how people are buying, what they're buying, the trends. You saw this at the show scene, all of a sudden for the first year in a while, ultra modern football, the first six weeks of the season weren't flying out of the showcases. No. But everybody wanted Iverson, Jordan, Kobe, late 90s, early 2000s, Brady stuff like. Ken Griffey Jr. Those kinds of guys. And what's funny is like we were talking about like old stuff doesn't move on, what not. The number one thing we sell on or what not is Michael Jordan and Ken Griffey Jr. Oh, we, yes. Everybody wants Michael Jordan and Ken Griffey Jr. Barry Sanders would be in that category forever. Barry Sanders, like old school. Forever. Yeah. Legends. Kobe stuff sells like crazy. Yes. Legends sell, but your stars do not sell. Yeah. Even if it's super rare, even if it's low number. Herschel Walker, absolute stud, Heisman Trophy winner. Yeah. Won't sell forever. or like, good luck. Detach yourself from the comp. Yeah. If you're gonna run that stuff. Because you're going to get 10%. So Gary and I now would say that we have like a second filter, like we can go through a value box and be like, all right, these stuff probably, these cards probably comp out of this. But when you do what not enough, it's almost like a second way of looking at it. That's what's the advantage I have of having the eBay store too, because I can, I basically have a way of processing all of it. But it's very different numbers. And a lot of people don't understand, I can hold up a $10 eBay comp and I tell you, we can run that 10 times, we will not get over $4. Or I can have a $3 eBay comp and I can tell you, I will get $10 out of this card every time and people are happy paying. Yes. So I think there's like a filter that you develop just from the reps there. But I will, go ahead, go ahead. And it goes into every deal we buy. Hey, we're able to run this on whatnot. This is eBay, this is showcase. And we set, it goes into three different boxes and that's where it goes. Whatever's getting list, ran on whatnot, gets un-top loaded and gets put in a brand new fresh mag. Yeah. Whatever's going on eBay, you get it scanned and you get it listed as soon as possible. And then whatever goes in a whatnot or showcase, you put it in a spreadsheet and you get it ready for the show the next weekend. Yeah. And that's how we go through deals now. Like, okay, this Boba Shett 101 tier one patch is super, super cool. Nobody's going to care about it on whatnot. Yep. eBay, you're probably going to find the collector for it. And you can put it in your showcase until it sells on eBay. And it's a cool looking piece, but you're not going to get anything for it on whatnot. Tony Gwynn, 2000 Bowman chrome refractors. We get a look on that stuff. Yeah. $50 card. You're not getting that on whatnot. Nope. You may get five bucks. Yep. Because nobody cares. Yeah. And then the thanks for the deal. Yeah. You know? There's always somebody that knows how good they got it. Yeah. There's always somebody that can appreciate it. We ran, before we realized, like with this Blue X Fractor buyback thing, we ran a Concanople X Fractor yesterday and it did 25 bucks. And we're like, hey, it went for comp. Not when you go check what they're doing now because of the Blue X Fractors. Yeah. 150 bucks. Yeah. And somebody said, thanks. You're welcome for your free Blue X Fractor. Yep. Exactly. One last whatnot question here from me. I don't know if Jason has any other ones. This is another one that, again, you have more reps than we do. And obviously you guys have three people that are running throughout the week. So one of the things that we also get asked a lot about, and we ask a lot, we're starting to get a feel for it, but you do things a little bit like we do. You kind of, you won't run big stuff right off the rip. You kind of get a feel. Is there a moment or anything you're looking for in the activity in the room where you go, okay, now it's time? When that number of viewership climbs up. Okay. That's what you like. And then it's like, all right, let's test the waters. Oh, wow, that went really bad. Let's scale it back a little bit. Oh, that did pretty good. That went for comp or a little bit over. Let's start running some of the bigger stuff. And we have it all spaced out strategically as well to where the better stuff is in the middle of the stacks. So when you get down to that middle stuff, it's about time for the room to start climbing up in numbers. Right. Okay. It just really matters of like when people are hopping in the stream and what's going for what. Okay. All right. That's a question we get a lot. Let's talk about current challenges at scale. So you've had tremendous growth. Everybody dreams of having that kind of growth on one. Honestly, very impressive, Logan. Super impressive in the space. Now you go to shows and you have a filter. It's not, I hope I sell some stuff out of my showcase. It's, I hope I sell enough out of the showcase. I hope we find some cool eBay stuff. I hope we find enough of the right whatnot. And I think a lot of people getting into the space think of shows as the place where we sell cards, right? And that's certainly a part, but why are you set? Why are you sponsoring shows where you partner obviously and you get these good spots? Like I want people to understand the pressure that you feel at scale when you set up for a show. What has to happen in that show for you? I have to buy. I have to buy a lot of cards. Yeah. A lot of cards. Yeah. And it's all stuff that I have to be able to move within a certain amount of time. Because if I'm stuck with it, it's not doing me any good. It's. Liquidity gets tanked fast. It's $400 of, it's a $400 card that I have 400 or 350, $360 into that that money's just sitting there. Why is it not selling? I don't know. But I could really use that to buy 30 cool whatnot cards. Yeah. So I could do that three times this week. My show strategy is how much and what can I buy? It's not, what am I gonna sell? It's not what's gonna end up going. It's what's gonna come in. When did that shift happen? Because nobody starts there. You get there. Gary and I are in a spot where that's our biggest pressure week to week now is buying. I'd say halfway through last year. Okay. The cashflow started ramping up to where we were like, and it's all about like the relationships you build. It goes back to the. Sure. 40 minutes ago when we first started talking. I don't, I'm not worried about going to a show and selling because I know that people are coming to the table and buying stuff. I know who's coming. Yeah. I know who's coming. Because of those relationships. Yeah. I know they're gonna come and they're gonna drop a thousand, 500, 10,000, even at times. So I know that I'm gonna sell stuff. I have no idea what I'm gonna buy. And that's the scary thing. Yeah. Yeah. So how's the show scene in your opinion? Like you're setting up at the larger regional, national Midwest shows. You're at all of them. Every show we're at. What do you think about the state of the hobby if you're just looking at the show scene right now? Bonkers. It's unreal. We keep waiting for it to cool off. It's unreal. Yeah. First quarter shows are always. Yeah. Good. Good. It ain't nothing like what we've seen so far this year. Yeah. I mean, holy smokes. We went to Dallas. I could not move. I got tired of walking around and bumping into people. I went behind a buddy's table all Saturday and just sat there. Yeah. I didn't care anymore. I was like, I'm getting so annoyed getting bumped around. I'm just gonna sit here. And at one point it was two o'clock and I'm looking at Hill and I'm like, hey, we're going to the hotel and I'm taking a nap. I can't do this anymore. Yeah. And. I like you letting out your grumpy inner old man. Oh. I like it. It should, there's times to where it just gets so, you deal with it so much. It just ends up like, starts to wear on you throughout the weekend. And like on a Saturday in Dallas, there's really not much left. Yeah. Why am I just sitting here getting bumped around and someone, somebody that probably hasn't shouted in two days? Well, that was what I told Jason when we left Grove City on Sunday. We have reached the point with brand recognition where we're pretty busy. Most of the time. But it ain't nothing like what you and Ryan and Shannon have to deal with. Lines. And the fact that like, we'll get five people waiting to talk to us and I'll look down and Ryan's got 60 and you've got 15 and Shannon's got eight or 10 people and they're just patiently standing there waiting. The fire marshal had to cut off Ryan's line because it was blocking the entranceway and it was a fire hazard. And if, and the fact that by the end of a show, especially back-to-back days, like what we all just had this last weekend, you guys are still smiling. You're still happy to talk to people. By about two o'clock, I have my murder face on. I'm, I'm, I'm not a happy person most of the time. And that's when all the, that's when all the 110% guys walk up with their nukes and you're just like, listen, you didn't start on this side of the building. I'm the 15th guy. Y'all must not know how cheap the ball card should be. We're not your huckleberry on this thing. We still have those. Yeah, well, and I mean, the reality is, is for us, it, back to relationships. I know you've done this a few times. Brent does it all the time. We will, when somebody walks up to us with those monsters, we go, hey, you see the sign with the GR8 on it? Yeah, we send you guys all the time. We send them there because we're like, they're going to pay stronger than we will on this stuff. I'm happy to buy it from you. They're going to give you more money. And every time Shannon gets something really weird that walks up, Brent just says, go see those guys. See the big white banner over there? You're like, I got a couple of these bricks and I'm like, I know some dummies. 100%, I know what, and that's what's nice about like the relationships you build. You find people for everything. I had a Saquon Barkley gold rookie Kaboom PSA 10 walk up to the table at Grove City. And I had just bought the Wimby the day prior. So I was like, I don't really have the funds to go buy another five figure card right now. So it's like, go to Brent, go to Clay, go to Ryan, go to those guys because they're probably going to buy it. They're ready. And that's what's nice about like building the relationships is because you know your friends are going to send you stuff that they ultimately they're like, yeah, I'll buy it, but it's not going to be at what you like. Yeah. Ultimately, so. Yeah, and it's the exact opposite conversation for us. We won't give them what they like on the super liquid, ultra modern stuff, but hey, you've got that card you've had for five years and everybody thinks it's cool, but nobody wants to buy it. Chances are one of these two is going to pick that up from you, so. You got a Derek Jeter silver foil SPX rookie? I do. There you go. It's sitting in my showcase. Yep, exactly. Yep, go to the ball card show. Yep, we got you. We got you. Gary, let's ask him the question before we wrap up here that we always try to do whenever we get an interview. Yes. So I'll jump in here with Logan. If somebody walks up to you, I'm sure this happens on a regular basis, I want to start selling on whatnot too, right? But you have somebody who's like actually committing, they're getting ready to get started. So if you were starting all over again and you can only give somebody like just a couple, maybe it's one, two, five tips, like what would be a couple of things in hindsight you're like focus in on this with your whatnot business as you get going? What gives you your best chance to succeed? Yeah. Be yourself. Truly, don't try to be anybody else because authenticity sells. And that, and authenticity is truly what ended up having me get the one-on-one Wimby. Is like, I'm the same person I am off camera, on camera. And the only other thing that I could say really is just listen, listen to your audience. Because without them, I mean, you're not going to sell anything anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Truly, it's not really a monetary thing because like you can have all the money in the world, but if you don't have the people, it doesn't mean anything. Yep. Right. Yep. Spot on. Gotta have the audience. Yes, sir. All right, Logan, let's blow you up. Tell people how to get ahold of you, follow you, get in the stream, follow the content, give them the whole spiel, baby. Yeah. So we're on YouTube, Instagram, all the socials pretty much, whatnot, all that stuff. It's a great sports cards. It's GR, the number eight sports cards spelled out and you can follow us pretty much everywhere except Twitter. I don't do Twitter. We fully expect you guys that are watching that are loyal ball card show listeners and viewers, go follow Logan's stuff. It helps him. It helps us when we talk to other people say, hey, Logan got a nice little boost. You should come on the pod. Yeah, absolutely. If you're bringing case hits in and you already know what percentage we pay and you want a stronger look, go straight to Logan. We're cool with it. Yeah. There's plenty to go around. Logan's like, you guys are setting me up for 95% offers here. No, if it's the right card, I'll pay a hundred percent. Yeah. It's just gotta be the right card. Yes, sir. All right, Logan. Logan, thanks so much, man. We appreciate it. Thank you guys for having me. It truly wasn't. Alrighty. Thanks. Awesome, brother. Thanks again, Logan, for joining us. If you guys wanna check great sports cards out, first and foremost, they're gonna be at just about every major show in the Midwest on a weekly basis. Also, you can follow them on Instagram if you want to have some fun in a stream that's a little different than ours. A little bit more of that fast paced, little hyped up type situation, but we'll get you guys- Sudden death. Yeah, sudden death. Hey, you're gonna hear chat. You're gonna hear chat. Yeah, you're gonna hear all these things, but you will find them on WhatNot under great sports cards as well. So again, we appreciate Logan coming on. One last thing that we wanted to talk about this week, and normally this is something we would do early in the episode, but we wanted to see if you guys would stick around for a few minutes after an interview. There was a little bit of news this week, a little bit of controversy. You may be familiar with the IG and WhatNot account and the influencer by the name of Pacman. He's got a huge YouTube following, a really big WhatNot following. And Dan, the card man, did a piece on this last week and it caught my attention. And it really is something that... as a industry We need to be cognizant of and understand uh The that there are lines that you don't cross when you're selling things Is that a good way of putting that jason lines? You don't cross or if you want to Be careful how I say this I don't have to be careful. I want to be careful. Yeah, that's fair uh lines being crossed or Or Creating an environment That is not transparent Yeah, so if you're not flying across lines across. Yes, if you're not familiar with what happened pac-man ran a Uh full I believe it was a full case. Maybe two cases. I don't remember It was a large quantity of the new tops midnight basketball It's a very expensive product. It's a thousand dollar box. Um And it may be up from that, you know now but yeah, it's a small number of cards and They were doing a player break on Whatnot, which is a big checklist and it's going to take a lot of fill you and uh doing a player break is a way To get more money for the yes Yeah, it's a way to put more money in the breaker's pocket, which again That's fine. People don't have to buy anything. He's allowed to do whatever he wants to do But what's not a good look is when you start kind of berating your chat and and using guilt or aggression to get people to uh buy things that's a that's a bad look and One of the things that's really important to understand in any business It's not your customer's problem. If you paid too much for something It's not your customer's job To just hand you money you have to create value and you have to create an environment where there is a uh an exchange That both parties are happy about and when you don't you can't be surprised when there's backlash Well, and here's the great irony for this kid. I'm gonna be a little bit aggressive Sure. I remember when I first got into the space He was posting these ripping videos and I was like, man It would be really nice to be a rich kid and just rip cases of stuff and you know Rip a case of something be like, yeah, I don't know. Maybe tomorrow. It's luminance. Yeah. Oh, it's flawless tomorrow. It's 15 Yeah black label one of ones from the national. Um But don't make the customer feel the responsibility Of your time and effort being spent or your margin when we've all watched you lose Three million dollars opening boxes over the last five years. Yeah. Here's my little fiddle for you, bud You you decided that your lane was wax and breaking The problem is anybody with eyes and the ability to compute basic math Which i'm not the best at has been able to track all the net losses opening wax So when you show us, thank you for showing us products. We've seen some big hits We've seen some cool stuff come out of there But we've also seen that it didn't seem to matter too much now All of a sudden it matters what comes out of the box, right? And you're using sayings like saying the g word i'm not going to use the g word, but i'm gonna stop Yeah, you're you're you're manipulating on people being stupid. Yes, there's idiots out there, but you're hoping they are I mean Lower the price if you got the right card in a showcase for six months, you had the wrong price Yeah, unless you're selling something that's never been seen or is never going to be found, but I assure you it's not tops of midnight basketball Nope at prices higher than your competitors Quite a bit that's right a bit higher and listen, I get the emotional piece of it There are times where we'll be in a whatnot show And we've got the next five cards We're running are all bigger ones that we paid stronger on And it's been a rough night and people request a card and then they don't even bid on it Or everybody's saying run this card run this card and there's 500 comps at 100 bucks in the last month And you're sitting at 20 in the auction ends. I know how it feels. Yeah, I know it can be frustrating It's also the risk you take that is a me problem that is an inventory problem on my end That is me not being able to present this card in the best light That's me not being familiar with where the numbers are. So pac-man you and everybody else that rode this covet wave It's time to learn that people are doing math now because they've lost their hat ripping wax So if you are not okay with a thin margin and you don't have a direct account kick rocks. It's not happening It's gonna be really it should be hard. It should be hard to sell that product at 50 to 100 over comps Yes, it really should and that's okay and it should be hard and it ain't for everybody buddy But if you want the clicks just keep ripping cases just take this dome in cases left and right That'll be there breaking's not easy accounts are drying up left and right. It's not for everybody But by god, don't turn around and make it their fault, right? Nobody will pay your price on the hottest nba product of the week. Yeah, you you did that It's not your customer's problem. It's your problem and blaming your customers for your problem is not a good look Right, right the easy money In this hobby that a lot of these breakers have had for the last few years Is gonna start going away like we've noticed it We see guys who used to have 100 to 150 people in their room at all times when they're breaking a new product Have 25 or 30 now. Yeah Uh, so yeah And i'll say this everybody has a bad day. I've had whatnot shows where I let my attitude get the best of me I'm frustrated. I don't understand. I'm like, what do you guys want? Everybody said they wanted this i'm on the hook I go buy this and nobody spent money on it. I understand all of that Yeah, uh, but what i'm saying is it's not the buyer's fault and the moment that that happens Unfortunately, it's going to affect this following it really is sure we're going to have loyalists that don't care that just love the content but um This idea that it's easy money in this space that that ship has sailed. Yep It's there's money and there's plenty of it, but it isn't easy. So no Uh, a quick reminder, uh this week in xenia, ohio, uh, if you've never been really fun show under new ownership So we'll we're excited to see uh, all the changes developments that happen with that over this year whatnot Uh every week three times a week now gary and I each will have a solo show and then sunday's at 4 30 this sunday We have some really fun stuff again Yes, we do check your whatnot check our whatnot shows because you're going to start seeing pre-biddable items So if you can't make it you can still have a chance at that card Um, and anything else i'm forgetting? Uh, no, I think that's about xenia this weekend Uh, we're open on the 14th and then the end of the month nashville, uh, 2021st 22nd Uh big three-day banger show in nashville if you're not in ohio, but you're close there come say hi. We'd love to see you That'd be awesome. This has been the ball card show the sports podcast for the sports collector. Bye now. Peace You