He Named the Man He Blames for a $500K Loss + Why He Won't Quit + Dealing with Hobby Trolls

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Welcome to another episode of Sports Live with your host, Jeremy Lee. I don't want you to go through the whole emotions more any more than you need to. Sorry. No. Yeah. Take a breath. Seriously. This is. This can't be easy. And David, I'm sure you have a question too. We'll let you get one out in a moment here. But how. Like you said, it's still emotional for you but you've come, you're. You're back in the hobby and you're re embracing the hobby. How. Tell us about your, your mindset about the hobby today. If you can compartmentalize that whole transaction that went so badly for you. How are you, how are you back in the hobby now? Like I don't know, a lot of people would just be done, they would and who knows where, you know, you, you, it seems like you're resilient. You do, you know, you're obviously shaken, but you're also. I feel like you might be a glass half full kind of guy. Can you just speak to that and how your, your mindset is in the hobby right now? Definitely. I, I love sports cards. I always have. This is, this is my escape. And you know, it's through. Through a lot of personal stuff that everybody has personal battles. But I just, you know, I'm not gonna let something, somebody take away what, you know, my happiness. What the, the collection I've built that I love. You know, my, my family even, you know, was, was very against me, you know, leaving permanently. I don't know if I've ever, you know, besides emotionally, like, speaking it out, like I'm done with this, you know, ever really wanted to. To completely leave, you know, again. I, I kind of pride on the, the personal collection I've built. Just, you know, I think that's what most collectors do and, you know, moving past it's just doing, doing things different, enjoying the hobby in different ways. I still love the best card, don't get me wrong. And, and it is a problem, but I'm, I'm not willing to cut those corners and I'm not will, no matter who it is. You know, I'm, I'm gonna use, I'm gonna meet in person in a, in a, in an area that's safe. I'm going to use a, a company like Acquire or, or the Wharf or somebody like that. You know, go through the auction houses. I'm not willing to take the, the risks anymore. Yeah, no, I certainly don't blame you at all for that. At, at this point. Absolutely. David Chase, do you have any, any. I mean, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, Let me ask a couple questions. Thank you, Jeremy. And I am so sorry that you're going through this, Steve. Like, by the way, these questions that I'm about to ask you, nothing is blaming you as a victim in any way. And I also, like, really think that this is really brave of you. And it actually is a warning to a lot of people that I think you're going to be helping a lot of people from getting scammed also. So this is like a really good deed for you to be doing this. But like, a couple of questions that are just on my mind as you're talking about this. Was this the most you've ever paid for a single card before? Ironically, the, the flawless was going to be the most they're very, very close. So yes, this was, that was the first and second most I've ever paid for a card. And with this person that you're buying from, like. Well, I know you said you've done a multiple deals before with this individual. Correct, Correct. What was the highest dollar amount of a card that you ended up buying from him before this? 400,000. So it was a significant amount. Right. So I can see how you, you let your guard down on that when it's such a large dollar amount to be paying for it online. Do you have. And I know you can always second guess it now, so I'm not trying to have you do that, but did you think about flying out to make the transaction in person with a card like that? 100% at the time. We, I have a medically complex children, so it was really hard to sometimes find the babysitting or the time to be able to just drop what we're doing. It's this guy. So we were going to actually have him drop it off at, at high end with high end sports Sprint cards. Sean, if you know him. And he got really weird about that and now we, we know why Sean's thanking his lucky stars he wasn't involved in, in that and receiving an empty box. But yeah, so we, I was trying other avenues and Bruce had claimed that this guy was being really weird and, but ultimately before I did send one depot deposit and then before I he claimed that he had possession of the card. So I had sent $100,000. And then there's a long timeline of, you know, hey, I'm driving to get it. And that's when he sent me the AI photo. I have possession of a card. I'm putting it here. Once it's sent, he said I can send, you know, I can send it. It'll be on its way. And yeah, so you did, you tried your best. I totally get that. And when. Now that this has happened and you know who the person is and you probably know where he lives because he sent the package. Do you have the police involved in this? Yes, yes. He lives in Mexico, unfortunately. And I don't know how much personal stuff about him I can say, but I've had investigations and stuff like that. Yeah, I hope so. He has a lot of people that he owes money to. We'll just say that. So I probably wouldn't be the first one that he would, that that money would go to if you know, he, he were to, they were to get a hold of one of his assets or accounts how much have you, how much have you spent trying to recover this? I mean you're, you're out the, the cost, but have you had to invest more money into legal fees and that kind of thing about. I mean, I'm up to about 15,000, something like that now. I mean. And are you gonna keep, are you planning to keep going? I can't let, I'm, I can't. I, I can't just lay down on a half a million dollars. 478, 000 to be exact. It was some weird number. I wanna, I find myself wanting to make you feel better. So here's, here's a, here's a little attempt at that. And you know, I'm watching cards selling right now on various platforms. Cards that I have sold in the past, card that I sold for 20. No, a card I sold for $15,000 is now selling for $50,000. Okay, so what? I just knocked 35 grand. I'm, I'm 8% of the way there, you know, but there's that, there's that famous case, Gerald Windy City sports card. Sold the dual logo man for. I forget what he got for 150 grand whatever year. Now it sells for $13 million. Right. I'm sure you're familiar with that. So like, like there's all sorts of stories like that that. Now listen, I am not trying to minimize your financial loss you've taken here, but you know, maybe in this case you can kind of think of it in the context of, you know, yeah, you're out the money, but everyone's out. Like if you've ever sold, if you have sold the card in this hobby in the past 20 years or any time in past, you left money on the table. Psychologically that's a lot easier to fathom than sending a wire out and getting nothing in return. But the hobby is filled with missed opportunities, mistakes, regrets, and even for the regrets of not buying a card that you could have bought for a thousand, now it's 50,000. All those sorts of things, we've all gone through them. And maybe you can somehow try to take some comfort in knowing that number one, you're not alone. You're not the only one who's been ripped off. You're not the only one who's lost money either directly or indirectly, you know. Do you take any comfort in any of those things? You can say no. A little bit, yeah. But no, no, no, no. I'm. Yeah, I'm pretty, I'm pretty disgusted by, by it again. I'm Disgusted with myself. So I, like, I understand the, you know, the, the, the questions that, that some people ask, you know, like what, how do you accidentally do that? You know, how do you, how do you get yourself in this position? I understand it. I kick myself in my own ass. So, like, I don't. You know what I mean? It's plus that, I mean, and if that card actually, that card would be worth $5 million plus, I think at this point, you know, that's where you can't go. Yeah, yeah, you can't go there or the cards I've sold to get it. Like I said, the, the kabooms. So it was more than a half a million dollar loss is what a lot of people, you know, the loss of big PC items. Not our business, Steve. David, you're not our business. But if you want to answer this like you have a family, you've got, I think you have three children. Four. You have four children. Like is, is this financial ruin for you or are you okay? Yeah, no, we're okay. Yeah, we're okay. Yeah. Good to know. I mean, yeah, I appreciate that. No, no, it was again, like you were saying earlier, we use, I use, at this point, I try to use other cards to buy new cards. So I have a lot already invested in, in it. So, you know, I was prepared to make one purchase at the time and when the other card came up, that's when I had to. To sell a few. Yeah. So no, no, I'm, I have a, I still have a collection I'm very happy with and proud of and you know, but yes, that, that stings. And, and at this point, like, at the least I can do is try to at least talk about it, maybe convince somebody else to do a little bit more research before they just send money. You know, you use the safe. Use the options that we have available in this, you know, in our hobby right now, there's a lot of options. Don't. Yeah, I think the, I think the lessons are important. David got to that a few minutes ago. Like the lessons that you can share with people. Let's go to a few comments from the chat because we, we have, we do have some happening in here. So Planet Metal says we. I think he means the hobby. We just pretend it never happened. Along with a lot of other past scandals. Remember the fake card auto scandal? Hundreds of them. That story disappeared after one month. The one thing about this comment. Thank you for the comment, Planet Metal is that a lot of these, I hear comments like this saying that, oh, we Forget these things disappear. They don't completely disappear. There are still people think they're just maybe not all over podcasts and YouTube anymore. Doesn't mean that they're completely forgotten because I haven't forgotten about the fake, the fake auto scandal. I just heard somebody talking about that on a podcast not too long ago. The hobby doesn't forget. Well some things are forgotten for sure but I don't really think the hobby really forgets them. It's just not top line headline news anymore and there and the updates aren't as fast and as frequent. Look, the Knicks are going to win the game if they haven't won already. Okay, the Knicks won. Congratulations to the Knicks and all their fans. Wow. They're gonna you're gonna see this for the next three days and guess what guys? After that we're on to the next season. So that's just the way news works. It's not, it's not about the hobby forgetting. It's the way news works. Next comment. Chris C. Says Steve is brave for coming forward and many people would have never done what he has done. These scammers, the scammers need to face serious jail time in order to be more of a deterrent. Absolutely. Coach Neil says sorry to hear. What a scumbag. The guy who ripped you off whose name you said is Bruce. Chris C. Says kudos for Steve for remaining in the hobby. Many would have quit. Couldn't agree more. BW says temporary blindness thieves must study this. Yeah, I mean it's almost like he work like he had you lined up as a mark from the beginning which so crappy Yankees fan. Steve, so sorry you went through this. Thanks for sharing with us. Chris C. Thank you for the super chat. Chris says Steve, you are helping people by telling your story. I've been scammed once before but like you I decided not to let one scammer ruin decades of fun. And that's what I want to say to both you Chris, you, Steve, like like all the power to you, you know, don't let somebody rob you of, of your life. Hobby, enjoyment. I you know what was I listening to somebody today? I was listening said it's not a hobby anymore, it's an industry. It's business. I forget who said it but, but the hobby. Listen you can be in this, in, in this. The hobby is a term of convenience. You can be in the hobby, you can be making money in the hobby, you can have a job in the hobby but you can still be collecting and, and, and it can be a hobby Even if you're in the industry, even if you're in it to buy and sell, it can also have the hobby element. If you're a purist, like on the hobby spectrum, maybe all you do is hobby you. You have no other business interest in the hobby you do. You don't make content. Maybe you don't even take a dime from YouTube for anything. Like you're just doing. My point is, is that the hot. You know, I'm glad you're not letting anyone take the hobby from you. Even though the hobby is somewhat of a. And when you're dealing with hundreds of thousands of dollars, it's hard to call that a hobby, really. Just a hobby where. Because a hobby is something that a lot of people think you spend money, as I talked about last Saturday, straight to the income statement, right? It's gone. You never think about it again. But when you're talking about half a million bucks, 100,000 bucks, 50,000 bucks, even five grand, whatever it is, it's not always just a hobby. Josh says, I hope this guy is brought to justice and you are made whole. Josh is a lawyer who might be able to help you do that. And Mookie Chilson says, oh, my God, this is surreal. There's a bunch more comments that I'm gonna just sort of run through here quickly. Gold Hour lets us know the game is over. The Knicks are NBA champions. It's gonna be a long night in New York for sure. Orange and blue skies. Spike Lee will never be quiet now. Jeremy from California says, thank you, Steve, for sharing your story. Thank you. And I think, Steve, honestly, good on you, buddy. And thank you for coming on the show tonight to talk about it. The. There's two real things I want. I want to gain from you being here. One is I want the audience to get the lessons that they. I want the audience to get the lesson of all this, of it all. I just want people to understand that this is. It's going on. Protect yourselves out there. I mean, just protect yourselves. That's super. That's just super. And then I want them to see your. Your resilience. I want them to see your bounce back. I want them to. Even though you're clearly emotional, you're clearly not over this. I would never get over it, to be honest. Steve. Yeah. You know, and you probably never. You might never. But you have to live. You have to learn to live with it. It's similar. It's not similar, but I always think about. I've, I, you know, people like our loved Ones die. Okay. Happens all the time around the world, obviously. And I've heard people talking about how they cope with loss and grief. And something that really sticks with me is they say you never get over it. You never get over the loss of a child, you never get over the loss of a spouse, you never get over the loss of a parent. I'm sure there's exceptions to all that, but you really. We never get over these things. You don't move on with your life. You learn to live with it. How could you move on from the loss of a child? How can you move on from the loss of a parent, loss of a sibling, a spouse? You don't move on. You learn to live with it. And I think that's where you are at right now. You are learning to live with it. You are coping, you are bouncing back. You've reset your mindset. I love this about you, Steve. I think this is phenomenal. I think you are. If you come away from tonight with anything, I hope it's that you have made. You have helped people, honestly, not only from the lessons that, but from showing the resilience in the mindset. Does that make sense to you, Steve? Definitely. I appreciate it. How about you, David? What do you think? Because it's not just, you know, I want you to weigh in on that. Yeah, I mean, I've lost a parent and. Yeah, you're right. And I think this could be literally a similar situation to that. And I'll just let you know that I'm hoping for you that the pain will at least dull over time. You know, that that's the best way to kind of say it. And, you know, with us trying to help other people in this, now that you're back into buying cards, what is it that you can do to protect yourself now when you're now moving forward with, with buying a big card? What's the, what's the things that we need to look out for that you've learned? Use the middleman, right? I think. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's the biggest thing in person. Middleman, a business, you know, auction houses, you know, I, I would say people, you know, but, you know, I, I met that guy a couple times. He may not have been. May not. Not have been my cup of tea in person either, but before that. But he was honest with his business prior to that event. So I, you know, like you said, you marked me from a while ago or whatever the intention was, if it was back then or came to, I don't know but you know, I, I, I say like, like the personal stuff that we had going on our lives honestly prepared me for that. This, some of the stuff that we had gone on as a family. You know, it sounds crazy, but half a million dollars, nothing to, you know, you know, medical stuff with your children or stuff like that. So that kind of, I was able to brush that off a little easy, which sounds great, you know, it, that you're able to brush it. But that was, that's nothing compared to, to that kind of stuff. So I don't know. I don't know. So, so what you're saying is when you're making a big transaction like this, you need to either meet them in person, use a middleman, use an auction house. It could be too good to be true if it's just a regular person that has a deal. Is that the main parts that we're getting at to, to. Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. Photos. You know, if you can't trust a photo nowadays, AI is, it's pretty crazy. Anybody who's, anybody can. I was just playing around trying to, you know, to see what the, the top, the 2006 top scrum Tom Brady super fractor would look like. And I, I put a, a refractor in there and it was pretty sick. I put it in, I put an example of a 2006 super fracture in there, and it was disgusting how like, I was like, my God, it's that easy. So it's, yeah. Don't believe in photos, don't I? I've been ripped off prior to that. When I was first getting into high end back in 2019 or something, I was ripped off on a car that wasn't graded. So I wasn't able to, I didn't know the card. I wasn't too familiar with it. And after the deal was done, I, you know, started doing more research when it was in my hands. So like I said, this wasn't the first time I've been screwed. I could definitely write a, a list. But one thing that I would recommend is for people listening, if you're dealing with a big card remotely, you know, the middleman, of course, but even before the middleman, do a, do a video call, do a zoom call, make sure the person can show you the card in their hand. If they don't have the card in their hand on that zoom call, no deal. Like, just stop right there because, you know, especially at those amounts. I'm gonna read through just quickly a couple, a couple more comments and then we're gonna bring Joe On Joe's gonna join us and we'll go from there. But Jeremy from California says I'm spending money in the hobby, like I'm a YouTube superstar. So he. So he's basically hasn't bought a card in months. Uh, Chris C. Says animals. I don't get over their family too. Yeah, I. I neglected to say animals when I went through the. The tough losses we have in life. Mike Double V says you never move past it. You move forward with the grief. Absolutely. Jeff Will says energy works in this world, so I'm guessing Brady will hear your story. And who knows? Wise world says Dino Locobo. Fresh Prince, what's on? Good to see you, Steve. Welcome to the show. Stooks says he's. Good evening. Was at the Red River Club card show in Fargo today. BW says never let them see how badly you want a thing. Yeah. And Mike Petty says, always look out for number one, but don't step in number two. Yeah, that. That makes sense. Okay. Joe has stepped away from his camera, so we're not going to bring him on yet. We'll wait for the next. For the next break. Oh, there, Joe, are you ready to join us or you. You need a few minutes still? I'm bringing you on. I'm bringing you on. There he is. Welcome, Joe. How are you? You good? I'm doing well, thank you. How are you guys doing tonight? Doing fine. I don't know if you've been paying attention to the show. You're. If you. Have you been following this conversation so far? I was mostly watching the game until about five minutes ago, so I. I caught the last little bit, but. Okay, well, we're not going to go through the. The whole story again. Instead, what we will do is, I think, let's move on. Okay. Steve, are you okay? Is there anything else you want to mention about that whole. The whole incident? Do you want to. Do you want to, like, make sure people heard the name of. Of people they need to watch out for in the space? Anything else you'd like to do before we. We move on and get into some. Some other topics? Just when he sees this, just know. Justice. Justice is coming, man. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna stop. So. Yeah. And yes, like you said, Bruce Feldman, be careful. Watch out. If you're listening to everything that we, you know, we've been suggesting this whole time, and, And I appreciate you. You and, you know, Adam, at first giving me an opportunity to. To tell a story and you giving me an opportunity to. To follow up on it, and allow, hopefully somebody to, you know, not have to get, you know, not have to experience a loss, because it does. You don't want it to affect something that's supposed to be a break, something that's supposed to be, supposed to be fun. And it's, you know, it's, it's ruthless. It's, it's disgusting that somebody would, would extract that kind of money from a fellow human. I know it happens all the time, but a fellow human, through our hobby, almost especially, anyway, but even like through our hobby to do that, you, and, and like, like, you know, this kind of crime could financially ruin somebody. It could, it could lead people to doing crazy things. It could impact how you treat your family and it could impact your mood around your young children. All these things. It's not, it's so not cool. It's, it's filth. It's filth. It's, it's disgusting. It's, it's scum. It's, it's, it's. Listen, I don't know this guy, but from what I can tell what you, your explanation of him, you've defined a complete scumbag, scum of the earth. Joe, what's the smallest little thing in the, in the ocean called? What's that? The plankton. Plankton. People who do this are plankton. I, I remember that from. I know SpongeBob has a plankton. It's, it's scum. Filth. It's plankton. This person is a waste of space energy, atom cells, water. His water could be going. The water he's consuming is better elsewhere. So listen, sorry, I'm getting a little carried away. I'm getting pissed off right now because it's, it's so, it's just so insulting. And he's just that kind of human being. He's got kids that he's not paying for. So I, yeah, I, I, I think I, I would like you to re, I'd like you to rethink your words there, Steve. You called them human. I mean, unfortunately, there are humans and do this kind of thing, but to me, that's, that's just, that's, that's subhuman. It's subhuman behavior to take advantage of somebody like that. It's just, it's just horrible. Stukes calls him a scum sucking bottom feeder. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. All right, David, you good on the topic? I'm good. And are you good? Are you? You're very brave, Steve. Thank you for, for sharing this story. I appreciate it. All right. Steve, we, you. We have other topics with you. Joe. Joe, give us the update. You're the one who watched that fourth quarter here. Between the three of us, what happened? What do you, what are your thoughts on the Knicks winning their first championship in like, in decades and decades? Well, it was, it was pretty exciting. They kind of brought it in the first half, they were down somewhat significantly, and then they just brought it home. They, you know, they kind of. The spurs showed their youth, you know, missing shots down the line. They'll be back, I have a feeling. But this is the Knicks time and congratulations to all Knicks fans everywhere. It's pretty exciting. New York's partying like crazy right now and they're presenting the trophy. If you see me glancing over, I'm just checking out the podium. A lot of, lot of hoopla. And yeah, any. Anybody that appreciates the history of basketball will understand why the Knicks winning a championship is, is a big deal. So congratulations. Absolutely. Congratulate. Keep it, just keep it cool there in New York City. Keep it cool, please. Right? Oh, yeah. Jeff Wills has free. Free TVs in New York. So that tells me. I don't know if he's joking or if there are already riots going on. I hope not. No one needs to get hurt in a, in a moment of celebration right now. Fresh Prince. Steve says Brunson was unbelievable and spurs definitely show their youth and experience. They'll be back, though. Solid core on all rookie contracts. Yeah. David Cooey says I'll never eat Mexican food again. I think as you said that Bruce, you said his name is. Is. Is in Mexico, so he's never eating Mexican food again. Okay. Social media paranoia, Steve. That's what I had in my notes from our conversation. On another topic. Can you sort of present what. What. What the context of that note I have is. And what was your. What was the. Just what this topic is in your mind? I guess it was the taking things too serious or people's. People's comments and, you know, or so social media, I think what the topic we were talking about was bouncing off of somebody coming after like some, you know, somebody coming after what they, what you. They know you want specifically because you want it, not because they want it too, but they have an ulterior agenda. Agenda. There's a couple points on the social media paranoia I had, but. Well, you know, you, you did share with me that you. This was funny, guys. So Steve told me the story the other day that somebody on Instagram reached out to him. Yeah. DM'd him and basically said, do you want to tell the story? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'll, I'll serve it up to you. Guy. Guy messaged Steve and says, you've never, you don't know this guy. You never, I never DM'd with him before. He reaches out to you unsolicited and says, hey, you have no theme on your Instagram page. That's what it was. Yep. So. And I'm, I'm ingenuous by taking a break, coming back disingenuous. It was just a list of things that this guy was going on. And I'm just like, man, I haven't tried to sell a card since I've been back. I'm literally just posting cards that I like, you know, I, I, what are you talking about? And I was starting to feed into it, and then I was like, these are people I'm just gonna, like, not talk to and block. Why am I wasting my energy with this? And that's, that's been part of the mindset that we were talking about at the beginning, Jeremy, that, you know, I turned to my, my wife and I was like, man, I started to feed into some, like, Instagram nonsense and it's like, I'm, I'm not even gonna respond to this clown because it's, because it's not true. I don't care anymore. Right? It's, it's so important to protect your, your, your hobby, experience when it comes to social media. And some bozo reaches out to you unsolicited and accuses you of your, of your lack of, or how much, how genuine you are, or tells you that your IG page lacks a theme. Maybe that is your theme. Maybe your theme is that you collect anything and everything. Maybe that is the theme. Who is someone to come into your house and tell you that you don't have a theme? Like, get out of my house. Like, get, get. Just get out of my life. You know, like, you're, you are. You, you are useless to me. Not that you have to be useful to me. So it's maybe not, maybe not that you're useless to me, but you are providing me nothing healthy. You are, you are neither neutral nor positive of an influence in my life. Hence, block gone. Bye bye. Like, you know, don't let the door hit you on your way out sort of thing. I don't know. It's interesting, you know, and you're, you're a collector. You've, you've, you know, you've, your story has been out there a little bit on Instagram. And as you mentioned, Adam Gray did a podcast with you telling the story several months ago. Shout out my, my long time hobby collaborator, content collaborator, Adam Gray, the real 27 guy. But like, yeah, like, like you're not, you're, you're just trying to be a, you're just trying to hobby, you know. Yeah. So. Oh yeah, he gave me, gave me some lip for you. Some of the post. Putting some AI post on there is what. And, and I, yes, I, I admitted I, I did on one of them. I was like, this is a card I was just putting up and I wanted to put a little information up there. And yes, I did. Please forgive me for, you know, putting a couple facts about the card that I, I. Because I have a hundred different cards of this same person and didn't want to, you know, put the same out stuff out there. Excuse my language, but no worries. It was just like, why am I explaining myself to, to this guy? I'm, I thought it was about the cards, not your, your reading and, and going through my, my doing a spell check and, and he wasn't the only one. I had another guy who was like almost angry about it and I was just, you know. Yeah, well, here, Jim, define says protect your peace always. Yeah, great, great advice there, Joe. Listen, you've been by my side in this hobby content, Sports cars, Live journey almost since it started. So you and I have talked a lot and you've been a shoulder for me to lean on a, a, a soundboard for me over the years. As you know, I've experienced. What do we call, what do we call them again? People who. Trolls. Thank you. I've experienced trolls. See, I, I pay them so little attention nowadays unless they come in the chat and then I quickly, you know, say my piece and get rid of them, but I forget the word because they don't exist to me. They literally don't exist to me. And I, and I, I think and, and it's not just me, there's other, I mean, you know, who's, you know who is almost the king of not letting the trolls get to them? Who? Jeff Wilson. Jeff Wilson has more trolls than anybody does sometimes. HE LAUGHS he does strike back the odd time. So he's not perfect. I once saw him at the, I remember I saw him at the, the second ever west coast card show and, and I, we were just chatting as we were walking in the same direction and I said something like, you know, Jeff, I don't know how you do it. Like, how do you, how do you deal with all the troll, all the trolling that comes your way. He's like, you know what? You just, you just put it out of your mind. You just continue working on what you're working on. I forget and I'm paraphrasing, this is several years ago now, so. But that was the spirit of what he was saying, and I respected him for that answer because a lot of people would just quit and go away, don't want to deal with it. But back to you, Joe. I mean, you've, you know, you've been along, you've seen me go through a little bit of troll, you know, activity over the years. You see other content creators go through it. What are your genuine general. Let's, let's go to the voice of reason, guys. That's Joe Perot. What's your general theory and position on trolls in hobby content and going after not even content, just hobby social media. But then somebody busting into Steve's DMs here and telling him he doesn't have a thing theme and that he's being disingenuous. Like, like, what would you do if someone came at you that way, Joe? Well, there's a lot there. I, I don't know the specifics of, of that incident that's being referenced, but I, I think, you know, you're gonna just have to, you know, guard your, guard your piece, maybe not engage. I think you and I have talked, Jeremy, about how, especially when you develop some degree of fame, which you have, people can be jealous. And so that's something to keep in mind, is that people might be responding to the perception that, you know, you've, you've gained something that they find interesting or compelling and they want to take you down a peg. So in some ways, you could look at it as a compliment. I'm not sure if that's what it, what would have happened in Steve's situation. But, you know, as dean of students for many years and deal with a lot of kids who experience bullying, who have, you know, social aggressions and, or microaggressions and, you know, you try to always emphasize that it's, it's more about the other person and maybe some unmet need that they're going through and that the best thing you can do, the strength that you can exude, the strongest thing you can do, is to, to hold your own silence is okay and being true to yourself. And if you do need to speak up, you know, try to, try to be composed in whatever it is. If you're writing Something in the land of social media, if you're speaking out on a YouTube moment. Jeremy, you know, sometimes I say, jeremy, you run a little hot there. Like, I liked. I understood why. So I'm, I'm kind of. I guess if I'm the voice of reason, I'm also the voice of just taking a deep breath and keeping it all in perspective before you respond. Because in some way, that's what they want. They want your response. So not giving it to them, you're kind of winning the battle. Yeah, well said. Well said. David, what about you? I mean, you know, it's funny Joe said, you know, you, you know, once you get a little bit of fame, which you have. He was speaking to me from sports cards being here, out for six years doing content. I call it, like, it's more like. It's not fame, it's hobby fame, which is, which is like, you know, I don't know, G level fame or, or maybe it's even like Y or, or Z level fame. I don't know. But let's talk to, you know, let's ask David because David Chase is kind of be, you know, not famous for. But Dave, Dave, like, David likes to throw out the term. All you YouTube superstars, you know, you know, you throw it out there a lot. And it's fun. Yeah, but it's, it, it's good. It's humorous and it's fun. But what do you think about all this troll talk? And again, for. And not just Steve, but anybody, if anybody jumps into your DMs and, and, and it's like people, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Like, is that not a thing for all these people's parents? I don't know. I know, right? Joe said it. Well, I've gotten hate, all right, and, and it affected me. And, and it's so funny because you can get so many nice things that come to you and just that one or two negative things, it's the only thing you concentrate on and it's really unhealthy. Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the sports cards live community. Don't forget to, like, subscribe and most of all, keep collecting more great content to come. Sports cars is a lifestyle.