Hobby Fraud + Why Do We Collect? + Your Cards Reveal Who You Are | The Hangover Ep 13

Hey, david. Yes. Jeremy lee. Good to see you. Hey, david chase. Yes. Jeremy lee. Hey, david chase. Hi, jeremy lee. Are you ready to. Let's do this. The hangover. I love, I love how we are both dancing in the background. Like, I can see you. I'm sitting here grooving to the tune. I see you grooving. You know, it's the piano that goes so good. It is so good, buddy. Hey, welcome to the Hangover, everybody. Exclusive sports cards live content on the sports card clubhouse YouTube channel. My name is Jeremy. This is my buddy David Chase. And Today is Tuesday 18th August. We are dropping this on Wednesday 19th August, 2026. We're coming off a really fun episode of Sports Cards Live on Saturday. David, where. You know something? I don't think that's really. Maybe it's only happened ever, once or twice in six and a half years of doing Sports Cards live, which was. We had a major thunderstorm here in Calgary, where I live. I saw it happening. I think people could hear the thunder through the mic. But all of a sudden a huge lightning bolt went off. It lit up the sky. I could see it through my windows. And all of a sudden my whole Internet in the house went down. It took me out. I was frozen on the screen. I think I had to. I had to shut off my computer, reboot my modem down in that, down at the source, start from scratch, come back on the show. But lucky for me, none other than Mr. Rodeo, Joe Perot held down the fort for me, kept the conversation going, did a great job. You weren't there for that, David, but you went back and watched it. How, how good did Joe do? Because I didn't see it all either. I have not yet gone back to patch auto How well did Joe hold down the fort for me when I was gone? You have to patch auto Joe was like such a pro. It was crazy. I. I was. I was picturing your panic happening. By the way, did the, like, the lights go out or was it just Internet? Internet went down. Not the power, just the Internet. I don't know why. Yu-Gi-Oh I've never even heard of something like that happening. But Joe just was like, Jeremy and, And you're just like frozen on the screen for a second. Eventually you disappear and. And then Joe's like, all right, well, let's just continue talking about the card. And he just like, just started talking about his Babe Ruth going into more detail. And then I think he, like, saw you in the chat. And then he's like, okay, like I could see Jeremy's going to get on eventually. And he just was like, totally comfortable. He was just such a superstar. I love my Joe Perot. And. And then eventually he just starts being like, you know what? I'm going to read. Chat. The chat. And by the way, he had no control. So the Babe Ruth is still stuck on there. He's just kind of looking on the side, reading the chat, which he can't bring screen. Did that for a few minutes and then you finally reappeared. But he. What a pro that Joe Perot is. I love. Oh, he did he? Yu-Gi-Oh So good. I was so happy that, that he was there and that he handled it. You know, a couple years ago he might have been a bit more nervous, not know what to do. But listen, he's been riding shotgun with me here on the show for several years now. He knows what to do, he knows how to get to the comments and talk about them. He. He Goldin put them on the screen, but he could certainly address them. So big thank you to Joe for. For really carrying the show in my absence. And I'm glad that the chat stuck around. Why wouldn't they? Joe's great. So that, that was awesome. It was fun. So that was kind of early, within like the first 30, 40 minutes of the show, I believe is when that happened. We went four hours again on Saturday. Some great conversation. And then the cerebral moments came towards the end when Chris Hoge introduced a question or a topic that he often does. And this one he actually brought to. To Sports Cards Live that came to him from one of his viewers from the crossover podcast that he does with Josh and Christina, the card ladder podcast they call the crossover. And the. The question that Chris brought to the panel and the audience was basically, what is your favorite part of the journey of collecting? And he laid out five different stages of the collecting journey. The first one is the research and discovery phase. The second one is the chase or the hunt for that item that you researched and discovered. The third one is simple ownership. So again, you discover it or research something, you chase it down, you hunt it down, you buy it, and then you own it. So ownership is the third phase. The fourth phase that he presented was the curation, display or expression phase. You know, how do you display your collection? How do you curate your overall collection? Does the new card fit into the collection and how does that card. How do you either express that card to your social media friends and followers or. But also, how does that card express your hobby identity, which is a real fun line of discussion for me. And then the final phase he presented was moving on from the card. And, you know, he asked us all, like, what is your favorite part? We all answered and responded to it. I thought that was a fun conversation. You were part of that discussion, David. We were into that once you came back, once you joined the show late because you were. You were out at. At a conference. You joined us late in the show. But I thought that was a really fun, intellectual, cerebral, you know, discussion to have that. That is deeper than looking at the marketplace and. And comps and pops and grading and breaking and prices and values. We were talking to hobbyists. Doesn't matter where you fall on the hobby spectrum. If you're on the far left as a purist or the far right as a tycoon. The question that Chris proposed or presented via his. His viewer, Romo Collector, you could apply that to whoever you are in the hobby, wherever you fall on the hobby spectrum. That question applied to all of us. And, you know, I started off by saying, well, for me, I really enjoy the curation, display, expression part of collecting, you know, and then we were saying, well, I think. I think maybe you said it or Joe said it or Josh. I forget someone said, you know, we're here to collect. So it's ownership. I'm like, ownership is great, but to me, like, to me, ownership is kind of goes without saying, but I don't. I want to say it. And I think that, like, for me, I love the Chase and the Hunter, not my favorite parts. I love the research discovery. You and me do that together a lot nowadays. So it's. It's enjoyable when you have, like, a partner in crime, too, you know, to do it. And. But I enjoy that. And I enjoy the curation and the expression. And when I say expression, I almost mean expressing to helping understand my own hobby identity better, my own collector identity better through my collection, and not only understanding it better, but observing it, even though it's me observing it as it evolves, as I fall in and out of certain cards. So I thought it was a really fun discussion, and I want to take it one step further. But before I do that, I want to kind of get your overarching thoughts on the question and the topic that we had on Saturday. Yu-Gi-Oh so I came in at the very end. I just kind of gave, like, a few sentences of kind of the way that I do it, just to kind of go through very quickly the stages that you just gave of what I like and what I really don't. I. It's all about Jeremy. You okay? I meant to mute myself. I spotlighted myself. You're good. So, like, research, part of it has always been a big part of this game for me. I'm not somebody that needs to research for hours and hours on, like, one specific card, but. But I just like to research broad ideas. Right. Like when I first came into the hobby, what are the most iconic basketball cards? What are the most iconic football cards? What are. Would Jeremy and I start to go down a path of pop culture movies? Like, who are, like, cool people that are there or iconic characters or fiction or nonfiction? Those are fun for me to do. I really love that. And just like what Jeremy said, now that I have a buddy to do it with, it's extra special where I'm not such a loner in it. The chase, the hunt. I agree with Jeremy on that, too. That part of that. I don't enjoy that part. But the longer the hunt, the more fulfilled I get. Okay, but that doesn't mean that I want to be hunting for three years for a card. Right. But it. Man, it is so fulfilling when I have been looking for a long time and I finally achieve it. Right. You have anything to say about that before I keep going? Oh, thank you. Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, I. I think back to cards that I hunted for a long time. My 33 Gowdy Lou Gehrig, and my 48 Leaf, War and Spawn. I mean, these were cards that were on my radar, each of them at different times for years. And I was just waiting for the right copy to come along. When I finally found it, I pounced. And it's so fulfilling. But is it, you know, is it more fulfilling because we finally found a copy we liked after so much time, or it's a fulfilling because we just found that copy? Like, I guess what I'm saying is, is it more fulfilling, like, if you just. Let's say you decide, I need a 48 leaf orange spawn. Okay. Starting now. And let's say you find it the second day or the next day. That can be quite fulfilling. But is it even more fulfilling if it takes three years to find that card because you realize how, like, you're fulfilled? Not so much that you found a card to buy, but you're fulfilled also because you now learned and understand how hard it is to find the card that you want? So it's maybe a bit. There's some distinction I'm trying to make, and maybe it's. It's. It's not very clear of a distinction, but I guess I'M just asking you, like, are you glad you found the card or you are you fulfilled? Because it took so long and you found it for me, finding now that I have this threshold of being Zebra annoying of how I want the card to look, I. I've looked through a lot of copies of certain cards, and the ones that, like, I look through a few copies and I buy it right away, I'm fulfilled, just like what you said. But it means so much more to me when I have looked at hundreds of cards, this 1951 Bowman maze, I have looked at hundreds of. Of those versions in lower grades. And so when I found that spectacular copy for me, I knew it. It wasn't like, do I get it? Do I not? It was kind of like, now the question is, do I want to pay the price? But it was my card. It's the card that I wanted and I've been searching for. So now it's about, can I get over the price to be able to own it? You know, so that's the chase, the hunts where I don't need to chase the hunt to be two years. But man, it feels good when you finally get one after you looked at so many, knowing how special the version is that you Beckett up. Right, Right. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh I, I think I, I land where you do. The longer it takes, as long as I finally find the grit, the card for me, it does feel more fulfilling. That said, though, I mean, I remember like, Babe Ruth number. Is it 144? The Standing Ruth. One of those. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh 144. That's a card that I was always coveting but never really searched for one to buy. Like with a. With the, With. With. With. With the goal of purchasing it at the end of that search. But then what happens? I walk into my LCS one day and there's a copy of it sitting there on the shelf, and I'm like, oh, my God, I just found the best card in the world. Like, that's. I. I wasn't even. There was zero time. I was hunting for it, searching for it. When I found it, I felt as fulfilled, if not even more than I did after spending years looking for my garrig or my spawn. So there's the. This is kind of flipping it over and saying you can spend a ton of time deliberately looking for a certain card and feeling so grateful you did and just so rewarding and rewarded when you buy that card. But the feeling I found, I felt when I stumbled upon that 144 Babe Ruth and bought it was as fulfilling because I felt like I found a needle in a haystack. You know, so interestingly, the hunter, the search can, you know, maybe that's why I just don't. I prefer the research and the discovery to the hunt and the search. While I love the expression, the display, the curation, so it's all fun. I mean this is. This is a fun topic. This is. We're not talking about prices and pops and all these things. We're talking about collecting and the feelings we get from it and why we love it so much. And I just love that. So sorry, you. You opened the door to me. I'll go back to you to finish your. Your earlier thought so. And. And just to say a similar version that I had with that Chase Hunt, which is similar to that is I knew I wanted that 48 leaf Jackie for such. And I stumbled across a Topps Jackie that was just an incredible copy. And I didn't really even like, you know, my money I thought was going to go towards that leaf one, but when I found that one, I was like, how is this one not even just as high as the leaf one? I love it. But it really like, even though I looked at them, it wasn't like the I rank my cards of how far I want. The tops one was much lower. And it's now even when I bought it, which was not on my radar as high as that one. I actually like that card for me better than my 48 Leaf. Even though that 48 Leaf is a very special card for me just because of the version that I have of that is. It like blows me away every time I look at it. Beautiful. Yu-Gi-Oh Isn't that fun? So the. The. Was there anything else you want to mention before I. I take that question to another level? Yes. So I want to go down the rest of them very quickly. Ownership, ownership for me, I like. But I lose a little part of myself when I finally own the card. And it's a little sad in some ways. I don't know why I feel that way, but it's a little bit letting go of the search for me, which is why a lot of times I still kind of keep them in my searches because I'm sometimes still thinking that if I find a better version of that card and maybe a lower grade that looks just as nice, I would still upgrade it. So that's. But cards that like I've checked off a box, it's a little sad sometimes for me to own when I finally own it as Weird as that sounds. Am I crazy to think that way? Well, you're almost like grieving the phase of life where you were excited about finding the card. You know, like when I bought my Joe Jackson, I spent a month researching it. And maybe it was a month, I guess it was 10 days plus the preview period on Fanatics premiere. Whatever it was, it was like two weeks. I dedicated my life to researching that card. And then when I bought the card, you know, it was like, it's not a let. Like the card is not a letdown. Receiving the card in hand is a huge thrill, but you move on to the next hunt as a collector. And so there's a bit of a letdown, a bit of a. A post acquisition hangover, if you will. When you get a card that is a real grail or for you, Zebra important. So I hear what you're saying. Yu-Gi-Oh And like for me right now, I just Beckett up at the national, my last hall of fame leaf card. Okay. The newhouser that I've been looking at for years. And besides the page, which I can't afford right now one-of-one so like, I'm kind of done with leaf right now. I can always upgrade, but I have all of them, all the ones that I need besides the page. So it's like the hunt kind of ended. I'm still on it, but it doesn't mean as much to me as me trying to complete that set. So that's where I'm coming on from there. Right. So I got to jump in there because that's really interesting. And you're not alone. So many people enjoy the process of completing a set. Whether it, whether you do it in a month, the product just comes out, or it takes you 10 years because it's a vintage set. But they build up the set and then what do they do? They break it up and sell it. Because what they love is the chase, the hunt, the building of the set, and that feeling of accomplishing their goal of completing the set. It's not just adding a single card. It's I did it. I built the set. I could do it. I proved to myself I could do it. And I'm going to sell it. I know people that have done this and started over again with tobacco era hockey card sets, the C56 at 36 cards. They build it, they sell it, then they build it again. The guy I bought my set from 20 years ago, that's what he did. He since sold another one. People love to do that as well. So once you now that you Say you're kind of done building your leaf set like it's you. You turn it is the phase converts from the hunting building to ownership and is now you're not putting as much daily energy and focus on, on the set because you're not searching for it anymore. Well, you might be, but let's say you're not. So you, you're paying less. It's not top of mind as much anymore. And the cards sit there in the boxes. You maybe don't look at them as much anymore. You're not filing away new, new, new number, new cards you need for the set. So I think those are parts of the reason. But I have to ask, does that make you love them any less or like you're not about to blow it up and sell them? So speak to that a bit. Well, I'm not gonna sell my favorites, but I have thought about. I probably, I still haven't done it yet, but of the second tier hall of famers that are non short prints, there's probably like for me, like seven or eight of them. I don't, I don't love them as much as my other cards. And you know, when I look at my Ted Williams, my Joe DiMaggio, my Babe Ruth, my Dobie, my, even some of my, these short ones like the Newhouser and stuff that people probably don't care as much about, those, those bring butterflies to me when, when I'm looking at them, the, the doer and the, you know, even like Phil Rizzuto, like, even though they're, they're great players, they don't mean as much to me. And there could be a time that I decide that I'm just going to keep the 15 cards that I love and not keep the six or seven cards that are a little bit of the fringe of that set. I'm not saying that's for sure happening, but it's probably, I could see it definitely happening because I don't need to be a completionist. That's not my style in any way. I wanted to be for this set because I love it so much, but it's still going to represent more of my collecting if I don't have five or six cards in there one-of-one Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh it makes sense to me. I hear you. I, I've built sets as well and then when I really shifted from being a set collector to a flight collector, it's almost like flight collecting just solved so many things for me. You know, it frees up capital, it frees up room and it allows you to enjoy those cards that you did retain even more because they're not drowned out amongst all the other lessons, important players, less interesting players to you. So, Yu-Gi-Oh like just what you were saying with that about how it drowns it out a little bit. It's exactly like that when I'm going through these cards because, like, I'll be like, oh, my God, this Ted Williams, man, I love it. Oh my God. Yu-Gi-Oh The spawn. I really, like, love this one. Then it's like Jackson. You know, I'm like that next. And then I go to the right. It's like. It's fluff. It's like the fluff that I. I'm never looking at that card being like, Yu-Gi-Oh what an amazing card. Even though it's centered because I'm only buying centered versions. It might be an amazing. Those might. Those might be amazing cards, but the players aren't as important to you or they're just not. Like a short print that's important can be important to you as well. So you. That's what I would do. I would just flip past, like the third. The 36 card 1910 C56 hockey card set. I had the whole thing, and I had it for 20 years. And I would flip through, but I would stop at the Art Ross cards. I would stop at the New Zealand lawn, the Cyclone Taylor, the Patrick brothers. The rest of them was like. Like I didn't stop and enjoy them. So those cards were sacrificed in order to get my Joe Jackson. And like, it just. That whole thing of moving from the set collector mentality to the flight collector mentality kind of opened up a whole lot of new doors for me and is. So it's really re. That might be the biggest change I've ever really gone through in collecting is that. Is that I don't need the whole checklist. I can carve out my own. So. Okay. Anything else on the. Yu-Gi-Oh you want. You were going through the five levels. And so I agree with you, by the way. I mean, I'm such a flight collector. There's only. This is like the only way that I'm not a flight collector is this set. The curation, display, expression. I just have like a little bit of a different way of doing that compared to most other people. I don't have cards around me. I'm not a displayer of cards. I don't feel like I need them to be displayed now. I actually. When I say that, I actually am looking at cards that are displayed, but they're not my real cards that are Kind of like a vision board for me to look at, to, like, know what to expect. Yu-Gi-Oh like what you have. And let me just, let me just add one thing, how I understood the, the scenario that HOJ introduced, which when we talk about display curation, expression, when we say display, like, I don't even know that we mean putting them out so you can see them when you walk into a room. To me, that includes things like how do you even store them? Because when I go, when I grab my, my graded card box here, you know, like, I got this, here's a graded card box. Right. How do I sort them? Are they by player, by year, by, like, that is part of the display. Because when I pick up my box and I grab a stack out and I'm now looking at my cards, I'm displaying them to myself in my hands versus sitting on a shelf. And I mean, who doesn't want to look at cards like these? You know, like, it's just incredible. Like, it's so much fun. Be careful, Jeremy. Be careful. It's so much fun. So, Yu-Gi-Oh so I, I do enjoy that because when I end up getting my card, I. My process is to scan it, label it. I put it into like Dropbox so I can see it from every device. Plus I put it on my computer just in case the computer ever dies on me. And then I file it away, maybe put it in a safety deposit box wherever I end up doing it. And I file it by order, by year order, and I have it kind of in rubber bands of like, you know, 15 of them within the order. So I like to, when I do put a new one in, I like to look at the other ones that are around that same year. But I'm not somebody that needs to show them off. I'm not somebody that needs to. That feels the need to even sometimes show my friends, as I said. And yet on Saturday's show, which, you know, Joe mentioned and Greg Miller has mentioned, you know, why, why don't you send it to me when you end up getting a card? It's just a little bit braggadocious. And I'm not buying them to show other people. I don't have that in me to be like, look at what I have. I just, I'm buying it for myself. And sometimes people's opinion, I don't even sometimes want to hear because they might not feel the same way about the card that I do. And I don't want it to, like, taint my excitement for the card. Right, right. Don't rain on my fault. They just might not like care as much about a card. Like I ended up like my short print leaf card. Right. Jeremy has zero passion towards it. I'm not like excited to show now. I know he's happy for me when I get that card, which I totally get. But. But you know, showing that card to Josh Adams is different than showing that card to Jeremy. And showing a Fred Flintstone card is more exciting for Jeremy Lee than it is to Josh Adams. So like that's why I'm just not showing it to everybody. Have I mentioned that I am still in the market for a Fred Flintstone card? For the right Fred Flintstone card? Yes, you have mentioned that. I'm glad that you're still going. So that's my thing about expressing it. I'm now that I'm an Instagrammer, I'm trying to listen to try to find topics on Instagram which I have to go into this by the way. I'm only doing that because I have a bet with my brother in law but I'm trying to do it every day and trying to find certain kind of content to put in. So like showing a card is something at least. I'm like giving a discussion about it when I show it, but that's it. Moving on. When I'm moving on from a card, I, I enjoy that part which a lot of people have. Now Jeremy said this perfectly on Saturday night. It's very different when you're consolidating because you need the cash like for his Joe Jackson. But when I am cutting the fat, okay, the same ways that I might do this with my 48 leaf cards, the ones that like aren't there, that don't mean as much emotion towards me, I feel free. I love it because now when I look at my leaf cards, it's, oh my God, I love it, I love it, I love it. Not like I love it, I love it. Next. Next. Next. Okay, I love this one. It like concentrates me on the excitement and love when I look at my collection and doesn't have the ones that are speed bumps along the way and. Right. It's a cleansing of sorts. And the other thing, that distinction you made, when you are giving up cards you love because you need the capital for cards you're going to love more, that can be painful. But when you fall out of love with cards because you're evolving as a collector, your interests are evolving, that's a lot easier and that is that cleansing feeling. So I totally, I totally get that. All right. So the next. When I say I want to take it to another sort of level, it's not to do with, like, these five stages of collecting. It's the early stages of being a collector that I'm curious about. I one-of-one Like. Like, I think about this a lot, and it's been talked about before on. On scl, but, like, why do I collect? Why do we collect? Why do you collect? I have to think. We all have different stories. But, like, I don't mean because I like watching baseball or I used to go to hockey games. I mean, like, what is it that causes us to want to add and acquire more cards, right? Because you can have the. Your number one grail in the world. You know, you can. You can hunt for that for 20 years, finally get it. But guess what? Next day, you're out looking for the next thing. Most of the time, you're looking for the next thing. So we're not just collecting because we want to own a card. We want to continue to own new car. I say. I'm saying we a lot. I shouldn't do that. I should say, like, me and maybe you, because I know you, but, like, I want to keep on buying new cards. I'm never satisfied. I love my collection, and I could literally never add another card, and I would love my collection, but I'm never satisfied. I still would. I would still want to buy more cards. If I Goldin I'd be okay, but I'd rather be buying more cards always. And I'm often hunting out and searching for new things that I'm gonna organically and authentically love. So my question really is like, why. Why are we collectors? And my. My instinctive answer comes back to just the original human motivation of being hunters and gatherers. You know, we need. We have that. Those instincts inside of us, right? To survive, to eat, to find clothing and shelter. So possessions give you comfort and security as a human being. Even like in the old days, even in the day, even in the early days of cavemen, which I. I mean, I'm. I'm a little bit too young for those days, but, you know, even then, it was all about hunting and gathering and having enough food to feed the family to last. The. The. The crazy weather, all these different things. So I wonder how much of us as collectors, the. The. The reasons for it, how much of these reasons are tied to our natural survival instincts as human beings, as animals, as mammals, if you will. Like, how much is tied to that? Like, why do we collect? And there's a part of it. I think that has to do with those, those that, that hunting, hunter gatherer thing. But I also think about growing up. My personal story, why this is. This is a bit of a vulnerable sort of path I'm about to go down. But I've thought hard about it for myself. And I remember being in like grade school, elementary school, you know, grades one through six, and I went to a. I went to like a private school. And I remember I would, I'd be lucky if I would get three or four packs of cards of hockey cards every week with my $2 a week allowance. And then there'd be other kids at the school who would get a full box of cards of 36 or 48 packs every week. And I would be very envious and think, man, I wish, I wish my parents could buy me a whole box of cards for $16 instead of buying me three packs for 75 cents or a dollar or what I would spend on my two buck a week allowance. So I then go to the next level and I think to myself, because in grades 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6, I was always kind of collecting from behind my contemporaries in school. Here I am as an adult and I've been doing this ever since. But really since I started making money in the very late 90s and when I started my career, I wonder if I'm still. Because I've always chased big cards and nice cards and, you know, good cards. I wonder if I'm somewhat psychologically still competing or feeling like I'm collecting from behind those kids from school who had better, more resources than I did, wealthier families and that kind of thing. Am I still competing with those kids from grade three? Is that what's ins. Is that what causes me to be a collector? I mean, I don't know, dude, because I love the car. I. I'm. I've got three of my best cards in my hand right now, and I get giddy about them. Am I giddy because I love the way they look? Am I giddy because I'm holding history? Am I giddy because they connect me to early sport, the stories of the players? Or am I giddy because I feel like I'm winning life compared to those kids in grade three? I'm not saying that's the reason, but it's crossed my mind. I don't know if I could. I might need therapy to figure this out, but I wonder if that's a part of it. And am I now competing with people of today? I hate to think that I Am. Because I live my life. I don't really care what people think about my collection, how I collect, what I like, except my friends. I care what my friends think. But I don't know, is that partially why I want to have a great collection, why I do have a great collection, why I've collected this way now for the past basically 30 years and built the collection I have. Like, why do we collect and why do we. And someone like me and. And you, too, where you. I've collected since I was, you know, 8 years old, and I'm 54 years old now. I'm still collecting these silly little cards with pictures of athletes. You know, I love these things, but why do I love them? I say I love. Why do I love them so much? Like, I don't know if I can answer it. And my. One of the reasons that I've come up with or one of the theories I've come up with is that maybe I'm still competing with my elementary classmates. So I don't know, man. What do you think? I think that there has to be a version of competition in collecting. Even if we don't want to admit it. I think that it's. It's very rare when somebody picks up a card that you already have that even as happy as you are for them for that card, you are thinking about what your version is versus that card. Right. Even though we don't. I never have spoken about this to anybody. Right. And it doesn't mean that I'm not excited for that person. And I love their card and they do it. And in my thought, a lot of times I'm like, Yu-Gi-Oh that's a very high grade for that card. I think I like my five. You know, that even has a little bit better centering it. Just for some reason, being a collector, where we're collecting a lot of the same things, you have to kind of go that route. And that's not downplaying, like, I still, like, love everything that people are showing me and stuff. And I'm not doing that in an aggressive way. And I would never even say that out loud, but it does go through my mind, right. When somebody shows me a card that. That I already have, as weird as that sounds when I'm thinking about for myself, which, I mean, what a great thought for you to be thinking of it that way and bring it back to your childhood. For me, I was kind of thinking about. I think that I've just always collected something I wasn't somebody that was into, like bottle caps. And seashells, which some people are. But, like, I was very into, like, Star wars figures, and I wanted, like, you know, getting my first Star wars figure. I don't remember having that, but I remember having, like, my ninth Star wars figure or 13th Star wars figure, where I was able to, like to play with them and display them and have that kind of thing. And, like, the more that I had and collected, the more that I loved them. And then as progressed, you know, I went into, like, music and records. Yes, I'm that old. Like, you know, records and, like, had like, you know, 10, 15, 20 records that I love to play and have different ones. And I went to CDs and then DVDs, and then I started renting movies and taping them illegally on VHS Topps and I started, like, collecting those. And I brought to college like, 300 videos of, like, my favorite movies of all time. That, like, was like, my collection that was worth nothing, but it was like, you know, people that would, like, I'd hang out with, we'd be like, oh, you want to watch, like, the Breakfast Club or something? Like, that represented me, my movie collection that I ended up having. So I've just kind of always been collecting that has been a part of me and was an expression to me. And it's just very interesting where the cards that I have for pop culture a little bit more because it's newer to me. But, like, I am not the biggest baseball historian or basketball historian in the world. Like, I am not the kind of person that wants to read a book about Willie Mays. I want to know about Willie Mays, but I just don't need to go into these deep dive history lessons about him. And instead, I love the history and the iconicness of the card. For me, it's like, if I could read a book about, like, you know, the 51 Bowman card and how that worked, like, the leaf book that I really loved and taught me how. How it was made. I'm more interested in that than actual the players, which is embarrassing because it kind of makes me seem like a poser in a way. Yu-Gi-Oh I. Listen, I. I totally understand that last thought there. Like, I like cards more than I like sports. I've been admitting that for ever since I started the channel. Pretty much, I'm okay with it. Like, and I think. I think you are, too. And that's because we are collectors. We don't know why. You know, I was talking, of course, about, like, am I still competing with my grade three classmates? And because, listen, I'm still doing it. But guess what? All those kids that were getting boxes of packs of cards in grade three from their parents, none of them collect anymore. It's me who always wanted more that is still collecting. So I think it programmed something in my brain that made me want to own these things for whether it was for literally schoolyard status or to feel complete. I really don't know exactly what it is. But then you said something interesting, David, when you said like, you know, your collection sort of represented you and your movie collection represented you in college. Like you were the guy that if someone wanted to watch a movie, oh, I bet David Chase has it. Or you know, the movie you would select and offer to the friend group kind of represented your taste in things. When we show our cards on social media, we're walking around a car show, we show them to our friends. We're not just showing them the object, we're communicating to them that this is who I am, this is my hobby identity, this is who I want to express myself to be to my fellow friends that I've made through this hobby or non friends. When you do it on Instagram, we are conveying a message to people that this is what I value, this is what I, this is my hobby, this is how I hobby in our overall hobby. And I think that there's a lot of merit to that because what other identities do we have in life? You have your identity as a parent, you have your identity as whatever your career is and then you have your identity. I don't know, maybe you, maybe you're a famous author or you're a movie star or you're a well known physician. I don't know, maybe you're the fastest runner in your school, whatever it might be. But for guys like me and you who are not professional athletes or, or musicians or actors or whatever, it becomes a hobby. And you know, you, our identities as a family person, a father, let's say, or as a husband or, or your, your identity in your career. I mean, boring, sorry to say, but it's true. Boring, right? Like every man with a kid is a father. So like, okay, many men share that identity. Many men, many humans share the identity as a parent or as an accountant or a doctor or a lawyer or a plumber or a chef or whatever it is. We also share the identity as a parent. But when it comes to being a collector, we can really, we can really set oursel apart from everybody else because there's no two people that collect the exact same really. So it gives you a Bit more. And it's something else to talk about when you're not around collectors. So I don't know, man. Like I am never going to stop collecting. It's in me for whatever reason, whether I understand it or not. And, and the rep. Like again you mentioned that representation thing. I think that we as humans want to have identities and we want to be able to stand out from the rest and be a bit different and unique. And we are lucky enough that we have this. That we are in this hobby. We discovered sports card and non sport card collecting and that we can use that as a way to express our values and what's important to us. I love that. That was, that was. Man, how is this topic? Just came out of thin air. That. That's amazing. Jeremy, was this written down, this topic, the second one that you did? No. Yu-Gi-Oh No, it wasn't. It wasn't really. Here's another part of that, that, that you. I know you don't usually like this kind of a question, but I'm just wanting to hear what your thought is. If you were to choose like one to three cards that represented you and you're collecting the most, not favorites, what represents your collecting? When. If you're somebody that didn't know you and you said these are like the either one to three cards that show what I do, what would they be? I. I think. Let me. I think what you're asking is like what represent. What three cards best represent my hobby identity. Right. Like, correct. If I were to. If I wanted someone to understand my hobby identity and I had to communicate that with three cards. Yu-Gi-Oh I think, I think I. Well now, I mean this guy's got to be a part of it. This is a big part of my hobby identity. A one-of-one Gretzky rookie card. Not my favorite card, but a big part of my hobby identity. So those two. And if I have to pick a third one, it's not going to be a basketball card. I can't think of a basketball card that would be. I. It's not going to be a football card. So is it going to be another baseball card? I mean man, like you're, you know. I know I didn't give you time to prepare a toss up maybe between these two because I feel like this is such a. A rare card and not many people can have it. So it does sort of carve me out from the rest. And then this card, just because it was such a. I love it so much and the story behind me discovering it when I walked into the shop and there it was very important. So I don't know that a modern card would. Would be. Would get there. I think all three are going to be vintage now. I love modern too. And just a quick tangent. Last night I was sitting here and I took out my modern graded hockey box and I was like looking through and I'm like, I wonder how many gold cards I have. So I like, they were in year order. I can tell you right now they're not near order because I got all the golds together. I took all my greens and put them together and I had them on my table and I was just sitting here like loving what I was looking at. But that said, because I just again, literally, you know, 10 hours ago, I was sitting here appreciating my modern hockey cards and I can't think of any of those that really represent me as a collector. I love it. But vintage is where. Oh, the other one would be the 1958 tops Bobby Hull rookie card because that was the first big vintage card I ever bought. By big, I mean, in 1989, I paid $800 for that card. Raw, you know, had a graded. Had a graded almost 20 years later. And. And so that would be a, an identity card for me as well, I think. How about you? I mean, you're. You're going to be easier for me, but this is my opinion. But for you it's. Well, let's hear what you would think of there. I, I have my three in my mind. I know you wouldn't get one of them, but what's your one? Yu-Gi-Oh the 48 Leaf Jockey. Of course. Yes. I mean, for me, I would just pick three 48 leaf cards. But no, but I. Yu-Gi-Oh the other two for the other two are not based on the actual, like the version of the card. It's my specific version of the card, which is why it represents me. Okay. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh Different than what you. Your. Well, you know, your Ruth is really your version of that is the one more than what the card is itself. I'm similar in my other two because I feel like it represents the way that I collect. One of them would be my 1957 Bill Russell rookie. It is a card that is just so hard to find centered. Of all of the cards, in my opinion, it's one of the hardest in the world, defined as a centered card. And I have one that's perfect. And there are issues with that card, a lot of issues with it. But it is just such a special card because I looked at so many and it's the only one that I've ever seen that is perfect in century. And so that represents that before you get to the third one, because I have a guess you'll never get it. I probably one-of-one But I have an idea of what it could be. Because when I think of your identity, I think of this, and it is, unfortunately, it's another 48 leaf, but it's one of the Joe DiMaggios that are, like, not the standard print one. Because you like you. To me, I think about David Chase and 48 Leaf cards, and I think of how you like all the variations because you're. You're enamored by it, you're intrigued by it, you enjoy. You enjoy that they exist. And so to me, one of those would explain your identity. But you had to convince me. You know what? I didn't even think of that card. The one that's like the ghost of Joe DiMaggio without the black ink, that, like, is such a weird leaf card that. That's up there that wasn't an honorable night, was maybe, maybe an honorable honorable mention. The one that I. That I was thinking, which is just such a crazy version of a card that I have, is my 1949 Bowman satchel page card, because it looks like an 8 on the front, but there's a glue stain on the back. And it is just like. It's like the epitome for me of, like, what I'm trying to find of, like, a card that looks so incredible on the front. It's perfectly centered. It is sharp, the corners are great. And. And because it was glued in a scrapbook, even though there's no paper lost, it just has, like, a mark of glue on it. And when you turn it over, you look at. You're like, oh, that's the reason why it's a one. And I love that. I love that card because it's like the hidden meaning of when you show that card, if anyone wants to look at the front, they would just be like, their mouth would be on the ground of how amazing it is. And then you look at the back, you're like, that's why. And I hidden kind of surprise that. That, that. That applies for me just like the DiMaggio did. Because to me, that's what you're also sort of known for. Although Mike at Junk Wax Hero is also known. Known for that with the cards that he Beckett up at the national this year that were similarly like his. His Wilt Chamberlain, you know, Zebra clean on the front, but has some back Damage. So you're not a. Now listen, you can still, that can still be your identity or, or the way you would want to express it, of course, but that is, that, that's not a. There's other people that collect that way too. Listen, I'm not saying that to take anything away from what you're talking about, but how dare you? How dare. But how dare you. But, but it's, it's interesting that more and more people are actually moving towards this whole, you know, value for the dollar instead of. Because, you know, it's weird, like at the low end of the grading scale you, you can get some great value. At the high end of the grading scale there's no value. Like there's no value at the moment. Sure, cards can go up in value later, but you're paying full pop at the lower end of the scale. You can get so much value by buying a card because you can't buy a PSA 10 that looks like a 12. You just can't, you can't buy a PSA in vintage. You can't buy a PSA 8 that looks like a 10. They just really don't exist. There are, you know what I mean? Like it's, it's almost impossible, but it's easy to buy ones that look like sixes, at least partially. So, Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh it's, they're not, they're not easy to find anymore, but they were easier a few years ago and prices are going up too. There's more demand for them and as prices go up, more and more people are being priced out of those higher. Even those mid to high grade copies, the fives, the sixes, the sevens, people are priced out of those. So now it's like, all right, let's find the nicest two, three or four I can, I can find and likely afford. And I'm going to give up on. Maybe I'll take slightly rounded corners or a bit of off centeredness or the odd print defect, maybe some paper loss on the back, you know, But I'm also saving myself a ton of money that now I don't have to, you know, I can buy that for 10 grand instead of 90 grand and still get a beautiful card. Cards, you know what, like, condition is of course, so important, but beauty does not directly correlate to me to condition to technical grade. It just doesn't. Like, there's something beautiful about a card that is imperfect. There's something beautiful about that. Now that this only really to me applies to vintage, modern. I want them, I think the more perfect, the more beautiful. But when you know in the back of your mind that a card has existed for 100 years and it's like, its technical grade is, like, mid, but it presents, like, high. Love it. Love it. Like, high. I just mean it's got minor. Like. Like. Like this card again, I'll come back to this one here. Yu-Gi-Oh this card. Like, the corners have just minor, minor rounding, but not like. Like, it's hard to see here, but it looks pretty sharp to me. Yu-Gi-Oh like, they are, but they're not. Like, there's minor, minor rounding. Like, just the littlest a bit. This has a little paper loss on the back, right? No, this has no other one. My. No, it's my. My garrig has the. My garrig has a little bit of paper loss on the back, which is. Yu-Gi-Oh you can't see it. What's the reason why the RUTH is. Is a technical, lower grade. There's a couple of wrinkles that run right through here that I can barely. I can. I showed them on a show recently. I forget what show I was on, but if I bring up my flashlight, I can sort of somehow. Oh, wait, you can sort of see them. They run along his body there from his. Oh, I love it when you need a flashlight to point out the flaw. That's my kind of card, and that doesn't even do that great of a job. Like, I. I cannot, with the naked Yu-Gi-Oh see those until. Literally until I take my flashlight and cast a. Oh, there, I can see them. Let's see if you can see them here. Turn a little lower. Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, I can see it. I can see them when you're doing it that way. Yu-Gi-Oh I love when it's a flaw like that, when you can't. When you can't see it unless it's, like, in a crazy kind of light or anything. Now, one thing you said, which I know I've pointed this out before, is you said condition is important, right? It is. So it is important. And I know it's very important to some people more than others. I know it's not as important to both of. Both of us, but is it important because of rarity? Because a great technical condition card is rare? Is that why condition is important? No, I. I said that because. I only said that because of the. The hobby mantra of buy the best you can afford and. And because of the value. No, I. I don't. I. Condition is important because of the values of them, really. I think ownership might be just owning a copy is Very important. Owning a, owning a copy that you love is what's important. Not the condition of the cards you can't afford. Now if you can't. I mean, listen, maybe you do want to have a, a mint or a gem mint copy of these cards. I mean, listen, who wouldn't, right? But the problem and why I love this low grade, high Yu-Gi-Oh appeal angle or lane just comes down to I don't trust the high grade stuff now. Like, I just don't believe it. I find it hard to believe that, that the high grade vintage exists. I'm not saying it doesn't. And you know, people did keep books, keep, sorry, keep cards in between pages of books to protect them. I, I do believe that they, they do exist. But man, like to me, at that point, what am I doing? Am I just collecting cards to impress other people? Am I just doing it so I can like, hey, look at me guys, I've got a card that's worth this much money. Or I've got the rarest, like some people. Like, listen, is it status or is it true inner gratification? And maybe your inner gratification is driven by how people, how you, how you perceive other people to think about you and how you, how you perceive other people to perceive you. Are we collecting to show off and to brag? And are we collecting for status? Listen, I'll tell you, I will brag all day about this card because it's so low grade. I will brag all day about this card and I will brag all day about this card, but I'm not bragging about them because they're worth a lot of money. I'm bragging about them because I reeled them in and I found this. I, I found the needle in the haystack and was able to. Well, with the roof, with the Joe Jackson, I just had to come out with the highest bid. But I'm bragging almost or I'm, I'm communicating that this is what I value. I don't need to, I don't just value the grade on the slot, on the, on the holder. I value a card that has inherent value because it's so much nicer than what it should be for the grade. So I, Yu-Gi-Oh again, tough to really articulate perfectly here, but I get it. I completely get. And the things that are always for me the most baffling in this. It's not like these vintage ones are the cards that are only worth money when they are a 10. Those are the cards that like for me are just so Hard for me to fathom in my collecting style where I'll give like a Rickey Henderson rookie, right. Where there are so many of them, you can get a one that you cannot tell the difference for yourself between a 7 and a 10. And the 10 is like $1 million. I don't know, something crazy, right? Some number. And the seven is worth like 150 bucks. Yu-Gi-Oh those are the ones that I just, well and you know, think it's very hard for me to comprehend. Well, think about the Sepia Derek Jeter rookie, where, you know, in a PSA 10, it's half a million dollars. In a PSA 9 is probably three or 400 bucks, maybe more today. But it's, it's like that. So when I, when I traded into my Joe Jackson the some of the cards and I wouldn't say the first, but a bunch of the cards, when I had to make tough decisions, I was like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to give up and sacrifice the cards that are only worth something because they are high grade but they're mass produced. Yep. Right. Like 80s 80s cards. 80s tops and opici cards. 89 Griffey Upper Deck, 84 Tony Gwynn. You know, they're only worth anything because of the plastic they reside in, which should relate to the, to the card itself and the condition of the card. But when the condition, like you said, between a 9 and a 10, you can't even identify with the naked Yu-Gi-Oh In, in many cases, man, just give me the nine, I'll keep my extra million bucks and I'll go buy a house or a vacation or what. You know what I mean? I'll buy other things. So condition is important. I don't think technical grade, Technical grade is only important to the money. Condition is important to the collector. I, I draw, I have a just I, I can make it. I can distinguish between condition and technical grade simply because technical grading doesn't take into account a bunch of things in a cart or they take them into account differently at different weightings and, and of course I appeal only sort of comes into play for technical grades. So. And then of course there's just the inherent issues with human grading like inconsistency, bias, doing favors and all those other things. So Yu-Gi-Oh I just listen, if grading was perfect, I would think that technical grade I, I would have, I would like it more and I would appreciate it more. But also if technical grading did not occur on a curve, but it does occur on a curve and we know that because of the diversity of conditions of cards that can sit in a one, it's a pyramid, right. The diversity of conditions is much narrower at a 10 that's either perfect or it isn't sort of thing or it's a little bit off center. But as you go down that grading pyramid, the, the different states, physical states that a card can be in condition wise are much broader the amount of states that they can be in. So but grading doesn't, doesn't occur linearly. It's on a curve. Because if it was linear, I mean 10 grade points isn't enough to cover all the differences. My point is that the top of the pyramid is so narrow that like you said, it makes no difference really. So why are we especially when a lot of tens used to be nines and all that. So Yu-Gi-Oh ever is able to grade. Maybe there should be a thousand point scale. Right? Tag Tag originally launched with a thousand point scale. They did because they understood that there's more than 10 conditions a card can be in. You know, people didn't understand it because the hobby is, you know, the hobby is just the hobby's. They're set in their ways, setting their ways, setting their ways in at a lot, at a lot of levels. And, and, and the hobby does turn a blind Yu-Gi-Oh to accuracy and to accuracy and the hobby turns a blind Yu-Gi-Oh to integrity as well in many areas. Truly does. The hobby doesn't care that those that your 10 used to be a 9. It just doesn't. The hobby just wants tens. Whether the cards are tens or not. It's, which is why you gotta think all these people who collect that way, why are they collecting what's important to them? Are they collecting for inner fulfillment of building a collection and expressing an identity or are they collecting for the status and the clicks and the followers and all those sorts of things? Interesting topic. It is. I, I, I have a, a very fast thing about, about that by the way, because somebody asked me this question about a different topic, but it relates to what you just said about the resubmitting. Is it fraud if you crack and resubmit a card three times, that's a nine and you eventually get it to a 10. And if the fraud buyer ends up asking the person who did that has this been cracked and resubmitted? Do you think that that's fraud in your mind? I do not think it's fraud, but I also don't think it's a good way to behave. I would always tell somebody if somebody asked me and I knew I would Answer honestly, those are just my values and the way I want to operate and be operated sort of with. Among other people. But fraud, I mean, I don't think it's fraud to, to lie is lying in general fraud. I don't know. I think it. I think it could be if you know something about the card that you are covering up right now, like I. For me, buying and selling a house right through the inspection, you have to let the people that you have to write out if there was ever a flood in your house or if there was ever major damage that happened, even if it was all repaired, you can't see it. If somebody finds out later that you didn't disclose that, you could get in trouble for that. So if you're buying these kind of cards that are tens, should you possibly have a piece of paper that says, do you know if this card has been altered? Has it ever been resubmitted? Has it. Do you. Should we be. Here's a checklist of things I need you to sign off on so I can just. Let me know, to. Let me tell me. People are going to tell you to take a hike. They'll sell to the guy who's not asking the questions. The difference. See, fraud, I take very literally as far as, like, legal implications and ramifications. So is there fraud that is not governed sort of thing? Because when you're buying and selling real estate, that's regulated. There's regulation and there's lawyers involved on both sides and inspectors and all that sports cards, there's no inspectors or lawyers involved. So is it, Is it in the, Is it even in the realm of the term fraud now? I've been using the term lately, PSA fraud. When people lie to PSA and send in cards that they shouldn't because they've dunked them, taken them to the spa, I would, I would, I would change my answer slightly and say, I think that that that's it is hobby fraud. I would call it hobby fraud, not fraud. These are two different things in my mind, and I might be wrong about that. But I would call that yes, you have now committed what I would. I would deem to be called hobby fraud. Yes, that to me is hobby fraud. Lying about that. So don't do that, tell people, because otherwise, Yu-Gi-Oh you're committing hobby fraud, which is different than fraud. So if you were to ask me the question and state it is that, would you consider it to be hobby fraud? I would have said yes right away. But I think hobby fraud and fraud are different. One has Lawyers and regulation involved, the other one doesn't. So that answer, it just. Yu-Gi-Oh it's an interesting thing that I. Now, I've never really asked those kind of questions before. When I'm buying a card, I'm also not buying, like modern, where people usually do that 15 different times. But what I do sometimes ask is I say, have you ever tried to submit this for an NBA sticker before? And they could be lying. Right. But that is something that I like to ask and kind of see what their reaction is when they end up saying it. See, where I thought you were going with the question was if I, if I have a card, I get PSA 9 three times. On the fourth time, I get a PSA 10 and I go sell that card. And am I obligated to tell the buyer that, hey, by the way, three out of four times PSA called it a nine, you're buying it the one time they called it a 10. At that point, do I think you have to tell the person that? I mean, I don't think you're, I don't think you're obligated to tell them that because the hobby doesn't care about what some random vendor at a card show thinks. The hobby only cares about what PSA thinks. So as long as the hobby is going to put so much value into psa, why would anybody go against that? Why would anybody put themselves above? Unless you're me, who often says I'm a better grader than psa, why would you ever go and go and, and put yourself in a position to say, I know more than PSA does. Like, the hobby doesn't care that the card used to be was a PSA 9 three times. All the hobby cares about is that it's now in a PSA 10. And that's the problem with the hobby. And that's where it's kind of like, actually, I may not want to tell you that because you only care about the grade. So. So I don't want to burst your bubble. You're getting exactly what you wanted. You're getting a PSA 10 that happens to have an awesome card in it. But you care more about the PSA 10. I, I almost want to feed that down, I almost want to feed that down your throat. Here, eat more. Eat more of it. Eat more of it. You know, and that's, you know, selling it online. You're never having that back and forth dialogue. But like, if somebody does sell, you know, which I feel like never happens at a show, but if somebody said like, has this been resubmitted? It'd be interesting. The reason why that came out, somebody actually on one of my Instagram videos, what they, it was a NBA reveal and a lot of them had the, the bronze sticker which says that it is the grade. And now what NBA does is they put a piece of paper on the card and it says if the grade actually in their mind is over graded, and it says by how much? So I had cards that were a three and NBA saying it's a two, and somebody posted that to me saying, by the way, if you don't tell the next buyer that this grade is technically a two, you're committing fraud. And my response to them was I, I said, I think that if somebody asked me the direct question, then I would actually give them the right answer. That's never coming up. It's not that. I don't even think that's hobby fraud, because who's to say that MBA is right. Yu-Gi-Oh About the grade. That's one person's opinion. This is all subjective. So listen, I'm not saying don't do it. I think it would be very kind of you and very hobby friendly. And that would good karma to do that. If someone asks you, I think you would, you would have to, you would tell them because you're an honest person. But do you, are you obligated to say, hey, here's I have my PSA3. Someone looks at it. Yu-Gi-Oh I'll take that for 200 bucks. Okay, great. But before you hand me your money, by the way, some, some random dude, some not random, but some dude over there who put stickers on cards thinks it's a two. Do you still want it? Like, I, I, I, I don't think I would do that. I don't think I would tell anybody that some other guy thinks the grade is wrong. Why? The hobby is proven that it cares almost only about what PSA thinks. It doesn't care what Beckett or SGC or CGC or TAG thinks that it only cares about what, what PSA thinks. So why tell them what they don't care? It's, it's, it's like, it's like, okay, I'm going to go, I'm, I'm going to ask my friends what they think about a new burger joint that opened. Well, I'm not going to ask the person who's never eaten a burger who hates burgers and only likes Chinese food what they think about it. No, I'm going to ask the people who like burgers about It. I don't know. That might not have made any sense, but I don't know, man. I don't. The graders, we're going to ask the consumer, right? I, I think if someone asks you a question and you know the answer, then I think, I think you're, if you're not being honest, I think I would call that hobby fraud and hobby bad karma. Like, just be honest. Just tell people what you know if they ask. But the fact that an Yu-Gi-Oh appeal assessor did not put their sticker on it, is that something you have to tell people? PSA is, is the, is the primary opinion all of a sudden. Now, if that's the case, David, if that's the case, let's say someone asks me what I think of a car. Say, you come to me, say, hey, Jeremy, what do you think about this? This, Jackie, it's in a five, you say, and you say to me, jeremy, I think this is a beautiful card. What do you think? I'd say, you know what, David, I think it's over graded. Okay, great. You walk along, someone says, hey, I love that. Can I buy it off? You're like, well, Yu-Gi-Oh but just so you know, Jeremy Lee thinks it's a four. Like, why would you do that? You would have no obligation to do that. But you do, because it's Mike Baker, NBA. I don't know. Do you? I appeal. Stickers are not technical grading. It's a, it's a different thing. So interesting. But Mike Baker is not psa. He used to be part of it, but he's not anymore. People don't care who the graders are. I mean, some we, we do, but, you know, the hobby in general doesn't care who's grading your cards. They, they only care about the plastic that the card lives in. And that's gonna be the biggest. I think that's the biggest risk the hobby has, is that. I think the biggest risk the future of the hobby has is when a critical mass realizes that psa, for the most part, PSA grades are wrong, are just wrong. There's a 45 chance that the PSA grade is wrong or that PSA themselves would disagree with that. Great. 45 of the time. Yu-Gi-Oh So that, to me, is the biggest risk for the graded card hobby. Not. And this really, I guess it could apply to modern too, but especially vintage. But because modern, they're all. The cards are all. They're all eight nines or tens, unless there's a significant like manufacturing problem. But they're all pretty much mint and gem. mint. one-of-one so it's like 9, 9, 10, 9, 9, 10, 9,. 10, 9, 9, 10. Like that's, that's the way grading, we envision grading to work that way because there's no difference. There's very little difference. And they only spend. I mean, I don't want to say. I don't know how much time they say 30 seconds. Yu-Gi-Oh if that, I mean, I don't know. I can't grade a card and there. I can't assess a card in 30 seconds. Not when it's in hand on two dimensions on a screen. It's easier because I, all I'm doing is looking at it face on. I'm not doing all this and not bringing up my flashlight looking for wrinkles and looking for little minor technical flaws that would bring the technical grade down. So. Okay, man, what do you think? Wrap this one up or what? Anything else? Pickups. No pickups. Oh, shoot. You have. Well, I don't really have much to show, but you did send me two and I apologize for about, for, you know, almost not showing them but I mean one's not a new pickup one-of-one But I just thought it's a kind of an, it's. These can be fast. It's just fun. So this is a card that I ended up buying not very recently. Okay, what is it, what is it for? The 1949 Bowman Yogi Berra card. That's an SGC two and a half. The reason for the two and a half, you can see right by his Yu-Gi-Oh There's a little crease that runs kind of down to the left. Very hard to see. You can see it on the high res scan in person. You really cannot see that card. The, the, the crease. I love it. I, I wrote down prices on this because I wanted to kind of show this versus the other card. The global pop on this card is 1780. I bought it for 370 bucks. It's again, you know, people think like I'm only collecting goats and stuff. To me Yogi's a goat. I think to most people he probably isn't, but I just love Yogi Berra. Right? Me too. Me too. Great name. Catcher on the iconic teams. I mean it's shocking to me that he's not even high, higher. He's not collected even in, in more esteem. Now I know you like this 49 Bowman, right? He's no, he's no Bill Dickey though. He's definitely not no Billow Dickey. You're right. That was from, that was from the hunt the other day. What. What is your. What is your. You love 49 Bowman. You need a red. I have a rest. Oh, you do have a. I do. But is it my final red is the question. I honor color. It has to be spawner fella. Right? I got the spawn. I got the rainbow. I got the rain. I got the Iron Bowman rainbow. But I would love to. This is this. This is my third. It's my third choice for the red. My second choice is the bear. My first choice is the Jackie. And the more I think about it, the more I think I need a Jackie, to be honest. But. But I love. I love this. Yu-Gi-Oh I'm looking at your yogi and I just. I look at it and I get warm. The warm fuzzies. I love this card. Yu-Gi-Oh I mean it's just. What I love about it also is that it is the 48 Bowman is such a boring set of it being black and white and this just this pop of color, even though it's still a black and white photo, but that background color of bright and beautiful and past. Like when you look at those, the way that Jeremy just held those up, man, this set is amazing. And for. Listen, I don't want to only show two thousand dollar cards. This is a car that you could probably get in a one for 150 bucks. So Zebra cool card in my opinion. Before you, before you move on, I just wanted to. I just have to find something here. I'm not finding it of course, but. Oh, here. It'll be in this handful here, I think. Yu-Gi-Oh I just. This card of mine wants to give you the. It's giving you the. Can you see that? That, the boring. Yu-Gi-Oh I have that card. So. I mean I, I love the 48 Bowman, but you know, as I've said before, the 48 Bowman and I don't mind black and white cards, right. And this, I have this three cards in this set. This card, the Musual and the Warren Spawn. And. But I don't like. I feel like this is a racist set because Jackie came in during the time prior to it being printed. He was a juggernaut. He was rookie of the year and they still decided not to put him in the set. And it bugs me. And it's a black and white set and the photos do look kind of grainy. I know some are better than others, but compared to that 49 set. Come on. That is such a cooler card. We're kind of lucky they didn't put them in there because it keeps the second year Bowman card elevated the 48, of course. And then you also have this card as just a classic. Early Bowman, second year Bowman, Jackie. So Yu-Gi-Oh that might be. That's in competition for the best looking Jackie. That and the. To me, the Topps are the two best looking Jackie cards there are for me. Yu-Gi-Oh And I'm still married to this one. I mean, that's my favorite. That's my favorite. But, you know, he looks a little stoned, but it's okay. All right, let's put on the second card to zag to show kind of. I wanted to show a kind of a second thing to this. What do we have here, David? So what we have Here is a 1998 Data Footwear Tupac Shakur. This is Tupac's first card. Now, his first mass produced card is two years later in 2000. But this is a card that came in shoes. Now this is kind of for me, being a flight collector, I have the Michael Jordan Nike, you know, the pre kind of rookie card also that came with the Nike. This was also like for hip hop brands. These shoes were Zebra cool during this time. And these cards came with the shoe. Now they. There's not very many of them. There's a global pop of only 20 of this card. It has a normal back. Jeremy cares about backs. So look, it even has like a card kind of back. It kind of looks like one of these. Why can't they put it on the other side? Look at your screen too. There we go. Okay, I'll take that card off. Yu-Gi-Oh it's got a back. That's awesome. Kind of like a, like a pro. Like those football cards from the 90s, those like, pro set. Pro set. Yu-Gi-Oh It kind of reminds me of that shows Death Row records on the back and stuff. So, you know, again, Tupac's first card during like the 90s, there was a big west coast, east coast rivalry. Right. By the way, I've never heard anybody ever discuss this, but I was thinking about this this morning on my walk. The west coast, east coast rivalry is so funny because, like, the faces of it were like, West Coast Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Tupac. Snoop Dogg is like a Muppet right now. He's like a Sesame street character. He's like the most family friendly person. Even though, like, his first album is the raunchiest album of all time. He has a show with Martha Stewart. He gets a million dollars per song lyric. Dr. Dre create, helped create Beats by Dre, which sold for over a billion dollars. He's a billionaire. Tupac died, east coast, notorious BIG he, you know, rest in peace. And then it's like Puffy who's like, in jail right now. Just to let you guys know, the west coast versus East Coast. West coast one-of-one pretty significant. Looking back, Where's M. Where's Eminem? Midwest. No, he's. I mean, well, he's from Detroit, but he hung out with those west coast guys. So he's a West coast guy. Yu-Gi-Oh If you have whatever team has, Eminem's the winner for sure. That's your winner for it. Well, I mean, the east coast needs somebody, so give them. Give them part of that team. So this card, right, very low pop. There's only 20 of them. I just think it's very cool. This is one of those lanes that I'm looking up fun things to be able to buy. It was on my radar. They never came up. Finally, one came up. I bought it right away because again, there's only a pop 20. And I bought it for very similar. I bought it for like $380. So again, for a pop 20, first card of an icon like Tupac, which was very similar price to the bearer that I bought. I love them both. But for me, if I was looking at this long term, I probably think that this is the smarter buy, even though I love both of the cards. Yu-Gi-Oh we can love. Yu-Gi-Oh I love how you just said that at the end. You know, it might be the smarter buy, but I love them both. You know, you don't have to love. You know, not every buy you have to make when we're collecting needs to be Zebra smart, especially at the lower price points when you can have a bit more fun, be a little bit more reckless because you're not going to hurt yourself in the long run from a financial perspective. So I love it, man. All right, let's wrap up. This was fun. Good. Great conversation. I thought we explored a few nooks and crannies of the hobby that I don't think get talked about a lot. So I enjoyed this. I hope you did, too. I hope everyone listening, watching enjoyed this. Let us know your thoughts down below on any of these topics, especially the, you know, the five stages of collecting that we. We referenced earlier from the Chris Hoage presented on Sports Cards Live on Saturday via Romo Collector. And you know, why we collect? Why do you think you collect? What do you think of the reasons why we think we collect all these things? Let us know what your thoughts are, everybody. David, great episode. Thank you for joining. And with that we are done. The hangover, huh? No, no, no, no. I was. That. I was just saying I was the hangover. Oh, that was. That. That wasn't a. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That was my. That was a dance. That was a dance move. For the most part. I'm gonna stay out of trouble. Fine art. They're all 100 ones. These are not 100 ones. Every card is priced relative to the other copies, especially us that, like, go for, like, if you kind of stuff, you're playing with your cards, you're. I noticed that those SGCs are. Are playing nicely with your PSAs in that little area right there. Listen, I, I love these cards, man. I, I love them. I don't even care that they're in the. I would prefer their psa, but they're sgc. I, I, I love you in the same box. They're in the same box, which isn't great, but. And do you put them in order when you're putting them in that box, or. I'm just about to. I'm restocking, so. But. But, like, this will go to the back of the 33 Gowdy section, right? Because it's an SGC back of the bus. Josh doesn't watch, so he one-of-one even know if we don't tell him that he didn't make the show do that. That's the question. Will he know that he was not on this episode next Saturday when we were like, Yu-Gi-Oh the hangover was great, everybody. Josh is like, Yu-Gi-Oh that was so much fun. We'll just like, Yu-Gi-Oh sure was Josh.